The Joburg Fire: Immigrants, Xenophobia and Fake News Campaigns in South Africa

The tragic fire that took more than seventy lives in Joburg's CBD exposed so many massive issues that will likely influence the 2024 national election. Let's analyse factors that caused this disaster, and what we can learn from the aftermath.
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[@phelopita9471]

Thanks for this Dan, the simple way of explaining things we are tired of complaining about and feel helpless.

[@theissuewithdancorder]

Thank you!

[@siphiwejiyane8345]

I’ve always loved your content but now that you are covering South African issues I’m hooked ❤. Keep it up

[@innolek226]

I have to say I like how you touched on what we all have been witnessing and thinking with the government and how they shift blame to remove themselves from all the crap they have been doing.

[@theissuewithdancorder]

Thank you

[@dinaledi4085]

I disagree with your statement. The black groups that moved into Hillbrow , Yoeville and Berea in the late 80s were the new black middle class who could afford to pay rent. These were blacks who had moved up in the corporate ladder . Some because of a combination of being new university graduates and then later after 1994 because of policies like Affirmative Action and fast tracking within corporates. But around the late 80s and early pre '94 it was definitely the black yuppies , and middle class families of blacks in their 40s. Some were business owners. There was also a huge population of black students from Wits in Braam . There was also a huge community of creative artists of all kinds ( musicians , poets , dancers ,visual artists ) , politicians and the intellectual types. All these groups blended very well with the white liberals of these communities. In most cases they gained entry into the communities through their white liberal friends. The flats were beautiful and well kept. There were certainly no township style shacks in these areas in the late 80s and early 90s. Hillbrow specifically came alive at night and you would have Wits students and young couples walking around late at night and socialising in clubs and at famous eateries in the area. Even groceries stores would be open till very late at night. It was a liberal utopia of sorts. There was also a population of old white liberals. AT the same time there was also a mushrooming of black Independent High Schools that were owned by whites who often had legal battles with the DET on various issues. These schools employed both black and white teachers , which was a new concept in SA. The schools catered to this new black middle class in the city as well as kids from Soweto and Alex who's parents were also middle class or civil servants like teachers who could afford to pay Independent School fees .School kids were walking around the city and kids of all races were hanging out at the Kine Movie Centre , The Carlton Centre , the Sky Ice Skating Rink on Saturdays. There was even a club that catered to teens on Saturday afternoons till 6 not far from The Carlton Centre. It was super safe. Up until around 2003/4 you could still walk around at night even in the CBD hence there was a night taxi business at the Carlton Centre. The were definitely no "township style "shacks or muggings . That only began a couple of years after the city was lost to building hijackers. That's probably after 2010. I stand corrected. Love the beanies by the way ,lol

[@theissuewithdancorder]

Thanks for this. I totally agree with you regarding the many different kinds of people moving to the Joburg CBD at the time. I don’t dispute that. But what I have described was also true.

[@theissuewithdancorder]

Sincerely though, thank you for contributing this! It’s a problem trying to condense so much history for KZbin and appreciate the addition!

[@dinaledi4085]

@@theissuewithdancorder I hear you Dan but the way you relate the history seems to suggest that poor black South Africans moved into the city from the onset and then "there goes the neighbourhood" type of vibes. It might not be what you intend to do but that is certainly how it comes across. Certainly in the late 80s there weren't any poor South Africans moving into the CBD . Nor were there shacks. In fact some of the prominent ANC politicians who later moved to the suburbs post '94 stayed in places like Hillbrow , Berea and Yoeville pre 1990 or just after 1990 when most of them returned from exile. In the late 80s and early 90s the CBD and surrounds were still quite "hip". Superstars like Brenda Fassie also frequented these spaces and some of them had what they called Penthouses there . Remember the NP government still had somewhat of a hold though it was clearly losing power. But they still had pockets of the city that were very much old apartheid vibes, like streets where they had bus terminals for West Rand residents for instance. Blacks knew not to be around those spaces. The city still had Building Inspectors and Health Inspectors right down to traffic cops or "Speed Cops " who were monitoring parking meters and issuing fines for offences such as illegal parking or staying on the parking bay beyond the period you paid for on the parking meters. By-laws were still very much enforced so the possibility of shacks within the city was just non existent. Nor was building hijacking. The CBD was still super monitored even though areas like Hillbrow , Braam and Berea were pretty much left to white liberals and the new black middle class. Even in Soweto the first shack communities only sprang up in the mid to late 80s. The first being Mshenguville around 1985.

[@dinaledi4085]

@@theissuewithdancorder I know and I fully understand. You could do several episodes on Jhb pre and post 1994. There's just so much to cover .From the historical era of the the beautiful architecture of the now heritage buildings to the era of the ultra modern sky scrapers in the late 70s and early 80s. The era of the tram networks . But of course you can't exclude the ugly history which is later strangely intertwined with the era of the liberal utopia of the mid to late 80s.

[@stephansnyman]

We need more comments like this!

[@p_art_2281]

I just feel that humanity lacks empathy

[@andzagatsheni521]

The topic of black migrants strikes a nerve in black South Africans and thank you for explaining it how I see it . We are no longer holding the government accountable and falling for anyone who calls themselves a leader by creating an enemy and be the savior at once. They have all been fooled to an extent of voting for a convicted criminal. We relied too much on the ANC and the opposition is not strong or reliable enough to do better. Should have allowed our democracy to grow instead of investing every promising politician into the ANC just to be corrupted.

[@user-uh1bp2wr9t]

Well explained from someone who knows the history of South Africa.🥳

[@hlokomani]

The bot issue is a huge problem for social networks. Only gonna get worse as 2024 elections near. It’s too easy to peddle crap on Twitter and get thousands of engagements from regular South Africans. Reminds of the Cambridge Analytica debacle in the US. Anyway, this disaster shows us once again that incompetence from our leaders in high places hurts most those at the very “bottom” of society, which is most of South Africa. Don’t mean that in a condescending way. Condolences to those grieving the losses of loved ones.

[@theissuewithdancorder]

You're right. And there's plenty of evidence that many many South African politicians are very happy to have bots at their disposal

[@strauss2514]

I love your work, high maturity and realist

[@theissuewithdancorder]

Thanks so much, we are doing our best

[@phumlanindlovu5653]

I love my algorithm, thank you greatly for simplifying things of whats going on in this beautiful cultural rich city.. I’m looking forward to learning more from your unbiased channel🙂👍🏾

[@theissuewithdancorder]

Thank you!

[@mongezikona7294]

I'm going to vote for Action SA

[@NeoM018]

Wow! This was a well researched piece. Thanks man. New sub gained.❤🇿🇦

[@ABC-ek3oi]

Man great job Dan, keep doin this cause u the only one who is ❤ All south africans should tune in

[@mannyathabang1315]

Joburg is so bad, it terrifies me. I've had multiple conversations with everyone one close to me and myself that under any circumstances I'll ever live in Joburg CBD. I'm fine here in Pta, it's "better"

[@phillipjacobs7691]

Its not xenophobia its being gatvol of ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS. We have laws in this country, if people have no respect for our laws how can people think that they will be a nett positive to our country?

[@Madking9762]

And if you chase away all the immigrants you think all problems will be sorted?

[@phillipjacobs7691]

@@Madking9762 not all. I do however think that there will be less of a burden on the clinics and government hospitals which helps our own citizens. We have 40% + unemployment, how can we allow illegal immigrants to work ILLEGALLY taking opportunities away from our own citizens who desperately need work. Would you buy the neighbors food if your own children don't have anything to eat sir?

[@phillipjacobs7691]

@@Madking9762 don't call them immigrants, call them illegal immigrants. These aren't passport or visa holders.

[@Madking9762]

South Africa has made it very difficult to be a legal immigrant. The processes are made to promote illegal immigrants. Although I agree that they pose a problem, it really won't change much chasing them away. South Africans are destroying South Africa themselves and worsening things. The July unrest wasn't an illegal immigrant thing, it's not immigrant embezzling billions of rands from government tenders

[@phillipjacobs7691]

@@Madking9762 is it easy to get into Sweden ? Or Russia? Why should a country prioritize IMMIGRANTS over the needs of their own citizens ? We do not have enough jobs for our own people let alone immigrants, especially unskilled ones. These aren't engineers and doctors coming into the country illegally. Sorry but you are wrong.

[@uniqtraveller2162]

This is excellent Dan!! Keep going

[@sibongakonkedludla9540]

I've lived in Durban CBD they are buildings named after African countries due to many nationals from that area living in that one building, however their numbers truly are nothing when you've lived long enough in Durban so the blame game is deep all over. Service delivery has stopped in most ANC ran cities all in the name of their elites looting the hell out of it, uMaGumede is just the unlucky sole who got outed.

[@Tshepo10111]

From your source I feel like a real journalist my self, Thank you

[@ArKaneLifestyle]

Wow Dan! Thanks for this insight. I had many views on the CBD, but I appreciate the research and factual underpin of this episode. Thought provoking stuff.

[@theissuewithdancorder]

Thank you!

[@nompumelolo]

Watching the video because it looks like PTA cbd will look like JHB cbd in a few decades. JHB cbd is a nightmare

[@michaelmitchell8567]

We should use the CDB as a classic BEE project. Give the cbd to the previously disadvantaged people of JHB.

[@paulthemba9961]

Been saying this over the years no foreigner benefits from eskom . Politicians keep quiet when the public b bash them

[@jawvees2585]

Wow what a video, really helped destroy all the propaganda I've been fed about joburgs real history and context....thank you man🎉

[@Siyakudumisa]

Thanks for insight

[@otorishingen8600]

Great content 💯

[@thabangemanuelmpane1550]

Yoh ... well explained 💯

[@JeffreyThomas-th2ps]

Very cool commentary this is urban decay at its worst.

[@wren1718]

This is democracy same shit in the UK 🇬🇧

[@sabelogoge9697]

btw only 62 illegal miners arrested were south africans and 2500+ were illegal immigrants.

[@Thatotherguy803]

So does it mean, the ANC calling the DA "racist" so the black vote stay with themself. Is the new version of " swart gevar"?

[@BelteshazzarMm]

On the money

[@jadedietrich2059]

We need a new color beanie to add 🎉🎉

[@theissuewithdancorder]

Your wish is my command

[@dinaledi4085]

Lol, yes we need a Spring range

[@nophezavibez1994]

Wow in this episode you really showed your true colours 🤞. South Africa is for South Africans🇿🇦 .

[@syabongsmfeka6720]

some untruths in this video

[@shey_clone]

What exactly are they?

[@mbusosiera1648]

Uncontrolled immigration, Unsecured Borders,Illegal immigration,Corruption, Crime and NGOs Is the problem in Johannesburg CBD!

[@melusimnisi]

I must find alternative housing for someone in my space illegally. Nonsense.

[@Mthukisi]

Thats where i think he lost it

[@domosayain65]

And this is why so many people are coming here to western cape. Ive seen so many GP license plates now...

[@whitewitch2511]

Citizens have a right to move anywhere they like.if you do not like it pack your bags and leave RSA

[@innolek226]

I know the video discusses some interesting and important topics but I can't deal with the number of hats you are wearing when was this shot?🤣🤣🤣 at some point put on more.

[@theissuewithdancorder]

It is definitely gonna happen! The beanies run the show. I'm just an intern

[@morningStar-hy7nn]

I have to respectfully disagree with this one. I think what was said about Dudula is a complete misrepresentation which seems deliberate. Is it really that hard to understand that people on the ground have a problem with "illegal immigrants", not all immigrants? I honestly doubt you have experience living amongst illegal foreigners. Before we even talk about the crimes they commit (zama zama, drugs, human trafficing), lets talk about "illegal immigration", do you guys understand that they are here illegally? Does that register? they have broken the law and the law says they must be deported. Guys if we gonna disregard the law, then we should just say so. Maybe we should all be selective on where the law should apply based on our moral philosophy. With all due respect this is a country with laws, not a religious organization or a non profit for world human rights.

[@chipodenzelmarunda6059]

Bit of a cliché, but it's true that history does repeat itself

[@missmahogany031]

you lost me at 'its been 30 years'

[@theissuewithdancorder]

Say more?

[@419prince]

It's true though, societal problems may last decades, but 3 whole decades is more than enough time to solve institutional problems, in 30 years South Korea went from third world to first world, what is South Africa's excuse?

[@thembi9645]

​@@419princewas 80% majority excluded from the economy is Korea, water and electricity etc. Is their economy run by their colonizers or Koreans as we stand ? Is the system still exist that meant to ensure they don'tove forward still in place? It worked all out In Korea bcz all those who oppressed them got out of there and they manage everything themselves. And is SA the same or the oppressor still held on and continued as normal? Don't compare apples and tomatoes here

[@dylansteiner493]

​@@thembi9645 and america heavily hacked south korea with econic aid to oppose ussr and china influence

[@sabelomkhize2960]

This is similar to what Julius says about white people.

[@MrProducer001]

why do you keep wearing more hats ?

[@theissuewithdancorder]

See my tiktok I can't explain it

[@pakoramatlhatse38]

They haven’t seen your videos yet, ask dr Mathew😂😂 once they land at twitter it’s over

[@miavos3610]

How old is this guy talking about the past? 🤔

[@willemvanaswegen1937]

Jy praat 'n klomp kak

[@shey_clone]

Elaborate