What a disaster. Is this the death of CMON?

[@Walboro]

I’m just being facetious but I love how these videos are like ‘I don’t hate CMON’, but then spends the next half an hour like ‘Here’s why I want to burn CMON’s HQ to the ground’ 😂

[@HarryBuddhaPalm]

They met their goal. I'd hardly call that a disaster. Just because they didn't make a billion dollars in three point five nanoseconds doesn't mean that the company is going out of business.

[@areyal26]

It's kinda sad, but I think people don't trust CMON anymore after the Marvel Zombies 'shipping fee incident'. Love your content, as always, keep them coming.

[@TheKingofAverage]

It honestly kinda breaks my heart. CMON was EVERYTHING to me when I first started out in this hobby. I loved playing their games. I loved their campaigns I loved painting their minis. I'd consistently say how they were leaders within the industry, and others should aspire to do things like they did. I miss that.

[@korofrog]

@@TheKingofAverage Same, they had some amazing early campaigns. However, getting too big seems to have led them down this path of not treating backers better. Didn't one of their campaigns go to retail like a month or so ahead of the backers receiving it or am I thinking of another company?

[@thespiritofel522]

Im still waiting on my MD2 ks to arrive. Last dollar they recieve from me.

[@TheKingofAverage]

@@korofrog oh yeah happens with some of their longer deliveries. Marvel United they announced the day after stopping refunds that the core box would be in retail in 3 months but people could pay extra to get a copy as well sooner...that they just so happened to make ;)

[@chrismiller4863]

@@TheKingofAverage I still love Cthulhu Death May Die as one of my favorite one shot, tense coops that doesn’t take too long. I got MD2 and it is still in shrink while I contemplate selling it. I have Zombicide Dead or Alive coming and think I will enjoy the Deadland vibes it gives, but I doubt I will back anything else by them when I can back ONeb or Panic Roll or Nemesis.

[@panik28]

I hope everyone who was looking forward to this game enjoys it. I did the 1$ pledge just out of curiosity, I don't care for the cyberpunk IP so I was hoping the game play to be worth but is not to me. 170$ minimum for a barebones game is beyond ridiculous. I know I will get whatever next zombicide is because I'm a zombicide simp but I will be more careful when getting stuff from CMON now.

[@Nozdormu1982]

yeah for less you had the base pledge of street fighter + stretch goals and that came painted.

[@NeilY1000]

You get a 3 foot Keanu reaves model as a stretch goal and have to provide your own container for delivery 😜

[@TheKingofAverage]

BEGON TEMPTRESS! :D

[@GettinJiggly]

Not sure if you saw, SpinMaster and CMON changed their retail box. Will be a mix of the zombie and hero cores with hero minis, standees, and less tiles, etc.

[@TheKingofAverage]

I did see that but thanks for sharing! Will cover it in my next news video. It leaked though, just like Marvel United they were surely waiting for the PM to close to inform backers that a cheaper retail option with hero gameplay only was going to be available.

[@GettinJiggly]

@@TheKingofAverage oh definitely, curious who had more pull CMON or SpinMaster in each case as SM is the 100% retail end. I was expecting if they did announce before it would be to push backers into actually paying the extra shipping as the mass market will be so much less of a game now.

[@toomuchdevlan7387]

It wasn't a good launch. Cyberpunk video game is marred with controversy I remember when they announced it and people just signed out of the live stream or responded 'meh'. Coupled with the way Cmon have handled shipping since MD2 it's really tough to get excited about their stuff.

[@TheKingofAverage]

Much like the video game I suppose sadly.

[@hughroe8598]

On a completely unrelated note I see Middara on the table in the back ground, does mean we our going to get some Middara content/review soon. Heres hoping :) *crosses fingers*

[@TheKingofAverage]

I will AT LEAST give you my initial impressions before the PM closes again. A review requires many many more play sessions for a game like this :D But yes, working on it!

[@silverhood2525]

I have to disagree, the IP Board Game don't need to try to replicate the origin game it came from, it can use the theme, in a clever way, introducing board game mechanisms. Btw, the Cyberpunk Lore is much bigger than the video game.

[@Exozik]

I would agree with you if only there were others Cyberpunk board games out there. It's like you're the first one to ever get the licensing for Lord of the Rings IP and you decide to do its first board game as a resource management game in a hobbit village.

[@TheYgeth]

Yes, for you. Most of the people knows CP from the video game. Personally I don't trust CMON anymore.

[@motnostaw2813]

I agree with you 90%. I have been playing Cyberpunk Night City based RPG since the 90s, and there has been a constant theme in the books and content that Night City is a modern Jungle with various factions in constant conflict to control their area of the city. I think the game captures perfectly the battle in the urban jungle. All that said, people only exposed to the recent video game are probably feeling alot of confusion how this board game theme matches their expectation of what Modern Cpunk is to them being a combat focused FPS. Great Vid Choom.

[@garylangford6755]

Wow nice so their target audience is like 0.00000000000000000001% of rpers from the 90s. Nice

[@robertsinfiniterealms1308]

Was wondering what your take on this wouldbe, thanks. I agree, this one has a ton of factors working against it and it isn't just CMON and the business practices (But I do think that had a huge effect). The way they are acting towards this one is weird. Lack of excitement almost is an understatement.

[@a-blivvy-yus]

To be fair to the game, there's more than just the Cyberpunk 2077 videogame involved in that franchise, it's been around for more than 30 years and was originally a tabletop RPG, with comics and novels showing up well before the company who made the videogame got any rights to do so. It's still always been focused on individual character-scale events and more action oriented with that, so area control doesn't really fit the brand even if you consider the wider brand, and the videogame is where the vast majority of people who know the brand are coming into it from at this stage.

[@willtuck]

I dunno man, I think Norton Antivirus 2077 is gonna be a great game.

[@NeilY1000]

Man now you said that it’s all I can see when I look at the box 😂

[@Indra_P]

I agree with your tips. I always back KS via FLGS, because KS always have retailer pledge which is cheaper and my FLGS have a connection with distributors so they somehow pay less tax than individual pledge. Befriend your FLGS owner.

[@markoxford]

Trudvang has a bit of a controversy mid campaign with a near static pledge amount and CMON had to release the stretch goals on a time, not amount, basis. This is a different league and I am wondering if a cancel is coming....

[@tgeorgom]

True, but the game is not as good, or as supposedly trudvang's legends is.

[@C42ST3N]

I am so happy that i cancled my pledge on Trudvang.

[@Sthunderrocker]

@@tgeorgom Trudvang had to go back to the drawing board...

[@925Gamers]

When you bought marvel zombies at your game store, did you get all the kickstarter exclusives or will you just get the base game

[@TheKingofAverage]

I'd not get the KSE's. If I played through all of the core box and all of the main expansion (which is a lot of game) and felt I still really needed more I'd look into getting them. Most likely from a game swap if I could help it. My worry is that it's like every single other zombicide game they've ever made where the KSE's are unbalanced and ruin that part of the game. They are never really playtested much.

[@925Gamers]

@@TheKingofAverage marvel Zombies will be my first time playing the zombicide engine. So I went all in minus the Galactus figure. I think that’s a wise decision though. Maybe I will do that with the next campaign they do. Definitely not interested in cyber punk. I was so disappointed in the choice to make a game out of that franchise.

[@cspo]

I tried to make it through the video, but it's got a lot of quite subjective "feels like x" and comparisons between this game and others that draw upon IP with significantly greater trajectory and following (Is Marvel less than 1000x more popular than the CP universe?), it was very hard.

[@JeanCharlesRenaud]

With an IP like CP77, I would have expected a game akin to the recent Elder Scrolls campaign over on GameFound: a sanbox/exploration/quest game... missed opportunity.

[@opman4827]

Honestly theme boards me, it just doesn't look interesting, if this was blood rage 2 this campaign would be a different story. They were probably under contract to make this.

[@elimcjones7722]

True, if this was Death may die season 3, I'd be selling my soul to afford shipping

[@opman4827]

@@elimcjones7722 yeah this champaign just feels like they didn't care, let everyone cool off and get this out the door. They didn't even have much advertising.

[@CheddahSlammer]

I think one of the problems is this IP. It was already on thin water with fans for being a glitchy mess when it came out. Some people who never actually went back despite the fixes. While people initially were looking forward to Cyberpunk 2077 those that actually played the game can tell you the game is just ok, and the hype died down since it came out. I am going to wait for the next Cmon product to see if the backlash of Marvel Zombies actually did anything, because for me the IP already wasn't that great to even make a Board Game version of. I am sure after a couple more campaign people will be back to buying.

[@cyder534]

That was a (very) vocal minority. I've yet to meet someone who disliked it.

[@sillylittlesheepjax6009]

I takie cyberpunk IP over another Marvel game

[@voltaireis]

@@cyder534 Well, considering a little under half of the 13 million sales, 3 weeks after launch, were PS4/XBO, I'd say it was a (very) big problem.

[@cyder534]

@@voltaireis ?

[@voltaireis]

@@cyder534 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@lultharion]

Again another inciteful and interesting video thanks for your thoughts and opinions are always welcomed by me, although I know a few people who have caused me to get upset when I have discussed some topics from your videos and I always seem to get put down and they get funny with me, I try not to let it get to me but it has made me feel abit down of late, I appreciate all that your channel stands for and has made me a better player, hobbyist, collector, painter and gamer :D On another note I really love the DnD Airship T-Shirt you have in this video where can I get one from thank you :)

[@zenster1097]

It will be more than $170 for a base pledge. No way they will stay with their "estimate" (intentional low ball pitch the shipping to get you to back. yes I think it's that conspiratorial with this company).

[@karaso0]

Oh definitely, I could $200 being the total cost of the base pledge after everything is said and done.

[@christopherb1913]

CMON is such a stale, empty kickstarter machine that I wouldn't miss then disappearing. There are plenty of independents doing it better.

[@TheKingofAverage]

Indeed these days there certainly are!

[@TheGrumpyMeeple]

Yep back through local retailers! I’m not paying shipping at all for marvel zombies, Galactus included. All prices same as KS

[@snoochieboochies197]

Hope to not see shipping rise across the board for campaigns. After Anastyr I have to wonder. I'll likely keep an eye on how shipping is going in other future campaigns. I'm feel CMONs lack of communication with the backers is what is hurting CMON. I can't speak for anyone but myself though. Looking forward to that Sankokushin update that I believe is dropping sometime today. Unless the price is too rich for my blood I'll easily be grabbing all gameplay content for Sankokushin. Easily my most anticipated campaign for a long time now.

[@ChickenIandlEggs]

To be fair Anastyr looks to be absolutely packed with minis so it could justify the higher shipping

[@snoochieboochies197]

@@ChickenIandlEggs looks like both have about the same amount of minis for the all in for each.

[@merccc1]

Actually, it really does fit the IP quite well. Have a feeling you don't really understand the IP itself all that much if you don't see how it incorporates the theme properly. Only thing is if your prefer rpg's or generic imitation of fps elements. Personally love that they chose to focus on the gangs as they play quite a large part of the cyberpunks world, but are yet to be explored as the player. You get to kinda explore the gangs dynamics including how they are influenced ultimately by the big corporations in a much more easily understood way by doing it this way. The 3 different classes fit some of the main class roles in the game, the equipment fit the cyber modifications parts, the territory control suits the territory wars of the gangs in the game. Idk, I am glad they did not just go some generic story rpg route or just imitate generic genre based gameplay. Instead focused on a different perspective of the city you explore in the game and know about, but don't get to interact enough in. I am a mechanics driven player over story, and love competitive games like this more, but luckily this even incorporates story that itself helps facilitate the gameplay and vice versa. Really love the way everything works. I genuinely cannot see how you can't see how it fits the IP. Id hate to just have a 1 for 1 board game version of the video game. Id rather just play the video game if it was that case. It does the IP properly, maybe not the gameplay imitation of a fps rpg like the video game. Thank goodness.

[@TheKingofAverage]

I can see that, however let me re-phrase my intent: IP is used to gain new backers, a larger market share than you'd get without it. So the game needs to appeal for someone not typically into board games that likes the IP and buys it. Disregarding their lack of informing what the game even is like, it's not something I feel some video gamer will instantly understand. The things you are talking about are true, but are not surface level. You understand the deeper part of the parallels, but a gamer that just logged out of the game to see that map and a few minis on it I feel won't. Again this is specific to the video game, not the Cyberpunk IP in general. Hopefully that makes more sense :) It's not an inherently poor game and there are certainly parallels between it's setup thematically and the IP in question, but it's not the obvious one that will actually gain from having the IP. Just like a Star Wars social deduction game. You'll get the people who already love that genre of game, the fans of Star wars that are into gaming but perhaps not social deduction so much, and that's mostly it. The casual fan of Star Wars that isn't into board games isn't going to buy that up.

[@merccc1]

@@TheKingofAverage Honestly, kinda glad they didn't. REALLY love the way this game seems to play, and to think it would just attempt mimicing a fps, or another generic rpg just in a cyberpunk theme would have saddened me. That feels kinda like why many of the video game adaptions usually are poor, it is hard to compete with the exact video game, but if you approach the board game as if exploring a different facet of the video games IP/Universe or what ever, than it can live on it's own while also help supplement the enjoyment of both games. I would have loved to explore the idea of controlling gangs or seeing the gang dynamics more in the video game for example, and this kinda lets me explore that a little and potentially appreciate the video games gang and corporation dynamics more. Idk, I am the crazy one I guess.

[@theRabbitFly]

I don't agree that this is a bad use of the ip. I would have hated to see them use the IP for another dungeon crawler I. e. Look what happened to Far Cry, that was a bad use of an IP. The gang element is quite central to Cyberpunk as a concept and even big parts of the Video Game. Now that is just superficially. I might agree once you start looking into the mechanics more specifically. Action selection and recruiting does not feel very thematic to Cyberpunk. Every action seems to only be superficially tied to the theme. Generally the game feels very by the book area control with very little to make it feel distinct. All the unlocks are just recruits. Which Does seem a bit interesting as it seems the main way to create asymmetry within the players. However it also feels like a weak excuse to make a ton of minis to justify the price. I also don't love the renders, though I personally think Cmon usually makes good minis (at least usually fun to paint). That shipping though. The game already feels a bit expensive compared to what is available on the market. I. e. Bretwalda looks interesting as another area control that is funding right now. The estimated shipping for me is around $130 that is over twice as much as the listed price for the game. Which means the game needs to make me believe there is enough value there for a $300 game, (once I calculate tax), which this does not feel like. I am still interested. I mean the gameplay looked decent. I just think it is really hard to justify that price.

[@theshogunstein6475]

Retail pledges or second hand markets are great options for KS, second hand markets are a huge savings but you might have to wait a few months for that new shiny KS game and you might have to play all those other games you have. I have ultimately found just about any KS game that I almost backed but didn't at the second hand markets at a huge savings. At over 50$ a shot to fill up my tiny KIA, just can't afford to back stuff on KS. Retail pledges are a great option too.

[@scottyk996]

I’m new to board game collecting. What kind of secondhand markets are we talking about?

[@theshogunstein6475]

@@scottyk996 like a flea market, at many gaming events at least in the Phoenix area a lot of people sell off their barely played games including a lot of KS stuff at significantly cheaper prices

[@MisterSaint95]

Will the edgerunner minis stay exclusive for kickstarter backers? Because if that is the case they are trying to give people fomo

[@merccc1]

Just noticed, you said no gameplay info about what the edge runners do in the updates, but they do have a paragraph that tells you generally how they work. Just saying. >.>

[@TheKingofAverage]

Sorta? It reads more like lore than actual mechanics. Unknown if that actually transfers to the game and how.

[@merccc1]

@@TheKingofAverage It does, they tell you what they do. Helps to know the rules though to know how it applies. Like this one, a simpler example of an ability. "Key-AR, like any true Techie, knows his way around his gear, having modified his companion drone for combat. If he enters a firefight with a friendly drone, he gains firepower for that combat." If you are going the route of techies and drones, he would be a good option as he gains firepower(attack) if you have a drone with him. Adds a little bit of flavour text in how they describe them, but I have always understood their role.

[@merccc1]

@@TheKingofAverage I will say, the only one I remember that I did not actually read is the only one I think does not describe the role at all or well. Just thought id check her, pure flavor text, but the rest have done fine. That is Fiery Misha.

[@TheKingofAverage]

Ah okay good to know, but not ideal way of doing it as it requires a larger investment preemptively on the reader. Thank you for clarifying that I really appreciate it!

[@warpaint9385]

Funny thing is m, so far last I checked CMON’s response to all this is to just carry on as normal. If it’s of no concern to them that they don’t make much money out of it then why are they still using Kickstarter. They obviously don’t need the money.

[@marcodavinci3150]

I fully backed the latest reprint of Return to Dark Tower by Restauration games and although they had great updates and stretch goals I was shocked with the over 100$ shipping charges and pretty upset when I saw that I could now pre-order the game and all the expansions directly from my local game store! I think if companies have more KS exclusives would be much more worth it

[@TheKingofAverage]

yeah that's a big bummer! I've gone through my FLGS for some games and the savings pretty much mean free shipping which is nice!

[@chrishoj5277]

Got marvel united with 3 stretch goals off Amazon for $29 USD. EL is consulting on a lot of these games but check the other names on the tin too… mileage varies greatly.

[@jcapo5]

I was actually ready to throw large amounts of money at this game. except its not the game I want. I love love love cyberpunk. but this style of gameplay to me is a miss use of the IP. this should be an rpg or story driven game with choices

[@rainingtacos5879]

this video is as poorly thought out as the the campaign... I don't want the game but who cares if they made an area control style game, some people really like that and it looks nice on the table. clickbait vid for sure, no real content here...

[@warpaint9385]

Funny thing is, when I last checked CMON’s response to all this is to just carry on as normal. If it’s of no concern to them that they don’t make much money out of it then why are they still using Kickstarter. They obviously don’t need the money.

[@waynesolo]

They've been financially treading water for a while apparently.

[@zerosdeath]

Other comment, why is everyone bashing on you for being negative?! So, everything now has to be like the other YT reviewers where everything has to be positive? My god what has this hobby become?

[@karaso0]

Yup, their are a fair amount of content creators that do paid content or are supported by devs and fawn over them. People just come in looking for confirmation bias, they've made up their mind and just want someone to keep selling then what theyve already decided they like. So if course if someone is an outlier they're the bad guy.

[@zerosdeath]

@@karaso0 I think I need a new hobby then, because this is childish. I want to hear the good and the bad, and mostly I am seeing a lot of bad within the board game industry. People like Tantrum house make me sick. The gaming industry seems to be this whole group think thing now.

[@TheKingofAverage]

Yeah it's a bit sad, but the industry and its companies simply are not used to criticism of business practices. In their games yes...to a small degree. But toward the business themselves? That's, as far as I can tell, fairly new ground to cover. It's important to realize how much they control of our space. Almost every single FB group for instance is run by members of the industry, not the community. For instance I was just banned from even being discussed in a FB group I'd not even heard of before (talk about infamy). What's not disclosed about that? The admin works for Backerkit, who has an exclusive deal with CMON to be their PM for all of their campaigns. It's literally a FB group to hype up games for Backerkit, disguised as a place for the community. So it's just the industry trying to protect itself from criticism and the easiest way to do that is to host and support aggressive and negative responses to me. Ironically, I have several hype videos of my own coming. Tomorrow is the Sankokushin update video and I already have filmed and edited another hype video you'll just have to wait and see :) But yeah, everyone just counts the negative ones and ignores the positive. Human nature I suppose :)

[@zerosdeath]

@@TheKingofAverage It is why I am no longer on social media for the most part. Echo chamber of ignorance and stupidity. Nothing in genuine. EVERYONE has a conflict of interest(not literally everyone) because money is the primary goal now. Everything is for clicks or clout and pushing their terrible products. dude, the supplement industry is the worst at this. Like the whole new, natural steroids. Yes, it is a thing look it up. If people actually looked, you give props to the right people for the right actions. Board game industry is full of phonies, especially the new players who have joined the hobby in the last few years. If I can get genuine people I will even go back to hanging around the Neckbeards...

[@karaso0]

@@TheKingofAverage Always remember, people love the messenger when hes brining good news but quick to shot'em when hes bearing bad news. Never second guess good intentions. Learning hoe to cope with bad news is the recipient not the messenger. Best you could do is keep doing what you're doing and delivering it in the most unbiased and concise manner, it's up to the community to do what they want with that info.

[@deano2099]

I got my copy of Blood on the Clocktower today, from retail, paid $67. Would have been $104 shipped to the UK on KS. I thought this was a really good deal, possibly even a mistake, but looking at the KS page, there's a section on retail pledges where it literally says retailers must "Adhere to our MAP policy, and advertise the game for no less than $79 and no more than $95." So retailers can't sell it for more than $95 at most, which is still cheaper than you pay on KS?

[@NerdAndProudOfIt]

another great video! thanks, koa!

[@faddoable]

correctamundo!

[@DanakarEndeel]

I didn't even realize there was a boardgame. I just happened across it at random just because I wanted to read up on Faraday over on a Cyberpunk wiki. That was when I saw they had a Kickstarter for this thing (when everything already ended). But yeah, $110-$260 for this while you then get VAT plus shipping (and import taxes on top of it) and you get an insane pricetag. I'd rather spend my money on several cool Cyberpunk 2077/Edgerunners figurines. In my opinion CDPR should have just developed the boardgame themselves (with the help of Mike Pondsmith) and hand off production of the pieces to some chinese manufacturer, then sell it for $60 on their CDPR Gear Store.

[@elimcjones7722]

I think another important question is do games that don't do well during the crowd funding campaign go to retail?

[@danielgustavoparedes]

I’m paying $55 for core anastyr pledge 👎 which is very close to as much as marvel zombies. And I’m in the states! Can’t imagine those abroad that have to pay for VAT too!

[@Jurm1969]

Can I just say how much it amused me to hear so much about not being someone who hates stuff, and yet there’s a copy of HATE the game, peeking out occasionally… great video though!

[@npckse8508]

Not sure if this was said, but the board and the colored minis actually resembles Kick Ass the board game a little bit. I just don't see anything in the campaign that suggests this game will capture the feel I would want. I almost feel like Awaken Realms would have been a better fit for this, or even Chip Theory Games.

[@TheKingofAverage]

AR I think would do pretty well. CTG is normally pretty high level/abstract as well aren't they? It'd be prettier though if either of them did it that's for sure!

[@chancebaker6042]

Yeah definitely depends on the Company cause I love Awaken Realms games. They don't do retail and I like that cause it feels more exclusive!

[@NeoBasch]

I think it's better to spread the love and grow the userbase, but I think they choose skipping retail for a very different reason. They often pack their campaigns full of stuff in general. Like if Tainted Grail was done by CMON, they would have likely charged $200-300 for the base game, at least. Then there would probably be $100 to ship the base. And that's disregarding quality. Awaken Realms have always done a really good job in producing quality components with their manufacturers. Awaken Realms, generally, always goes premium, making it hard to market in retail I think.

[@nirszi]

Here's the thing, even though there's a lot of hoopla and talk about this campaign, it will be very successful. Not all the $1 pledges will cancel, because people like to talk big but in the end fomo will kick in and CMON fanboism will rule the day. And many of these $1 pledges will upgrade to full price. So maybe in terms of CMON campaign this will be smaller in funding, but in any other terms this will be a success. And I was not and am not a CMON fan, never backed or played any of their games, just an outside observer. And I agree with you on every observation you made here. This looks like a rushed campaign, that even they don't seem to be excited about. In a way this look like a test. Let's test the state of our fans and brand, let's put out an average campaign at best and see where we stand after all the controversy. And guess what, this will be a big affirmation that the fans are still paying and the brand is strong. Win for CMON.

[@GeekeryNZ]

I don't agree with the buy it at retail mantra, because this only works for games that have passed their funding goal, and if too many people decide to wait for retail then funding goals won't be reached and games won't be made...

[@EliteC64]

Once Cmon had to comply with VAT laws starting with Massive Darkness 2 Kickstarter it's made backing projects on that platform far too expensive now on.

[@carpetsnake83]

There where 1968 backers at $110 2151 $260 backers Out of a total of 6345 backers total that leaves 2226 backers that I’m guessing only pledged a $1

[@ant6227]

The way they're using the theme here is interesting because it is on brand for Cyberpunk but not Cyberpunk 2077 (which for those who don't know is itself an IP game). It's like they wanted to make a Cyberpunk game but leverage the 2077 characters for additional revenue only. Not that we'll ever find out but I'm very curious what went on behind the scenes here, did this perhaps start as a Cyberpunk Red game?

[@TheKingofAverage]

Exactly. Theme works, but not based on any gameplay. So any gamer from 2077 is going to be interested, look into this and come back more confused than excited I feel.

[@siriactuallysara]

I’m still hoping to see Star Wars United. And that will make 5 million for CMON

[@nekochen]

How do you get dark mode on Kickstarter page? That website blinds me.

[@TheKingofAverage]

Through the browser itself. It's not perfect, but overall I'm happier with it than all that white :) Any Chromium based browser should have it I believe (so Chrome, Opera, etc.)

[@matthendrickson5992]

I go through my FLGS whenever I can. Thank you Pheonix Fire Games!

[@mikef6857]

Is Middara running a campaign? Did I miss something?

[@AlmightyCow1]

My only issue with buying at retail is that the FOMO is real. Though it would be cheaper, knowing that I missed out on a bunch of extra stuff usually deters me from doing it.

[@TheKingofAverage]

You pay a fairly high price for them and at least how CMON does the, they are always not as balanced so it hurts the game too often enough :( Not a hard and fast rule, but you are missing out on a potential purchase, not free stuff :)

[@nobbynobbs8182]

Is this IP still popular to begin with? The main thing I know about it that its release was a flop due to the many bugs

[@Nozdormu1982]

I was hoping for some futuristic area control game, but this game feels like a coherent mess where a lot of mechanics got thrown together just for the hell of it.

[@sillylittlesheepjax6009]

Yeah its still popular and anime is coming to Netflix soon

[@warpaint9385]

Funny thing is, when I last checked CMON’s response to all this is to just carry on as normal. If it’s of no concern to them that they don’t make much money out of it then why are they still using Kickstarter. They obviously don’t need the money upfront to fund games. Really wish this had just stayed as a card game. Would’ve been a lot cheaper. I think it was going to be called Afterlife.

[@TheKingofAverage]

For a retail focused company like them, KS is actually quite nice even if modest. One thing I didn't go into in my previous videos is known retail releases. If you know you have 15k boxes going to retail, the cost and profit is actually distributed to those too, even further thinning the actual cost. If KS can even just pay their sunken cost of ramping up the game, then they launch at retail with 0 debt and reap in even more profit per box at retail than they would have with just retail alone. And they get wonderful consumer data around what's popular, what sells, etc. It's a great deal for them to be on KS for a multitude of reasons. You are right btw, Afterlife was the nickname when Eric Lang was on board before he left. No clue how much survived since he left though.

[@davidk6269]

This game looks meh. It just doesn't look appealing on the table. I agree that the IP is an awkward fit for the game mechanics. I am glad that CMON is finally facing consumer backlash where it counts: in the pocket book (disappointing pledges). Hopefully now CMON will feel the financial motivation to address the grievances of its customer base.

[@nucnuc7591]

Would I back this game before Marvel zombies? A big MAYBE.... after Marvel Zombies? No. And it wasn´t the price alone. I have the bucks. But if you want to f... me, at least invite me to a dinner (or talk to me... silent f... is still a f... )

[@smtkelly]

I have been off CMON since MD2 which I only bought because my wife specifically requested backing and it showed up with a bunch of broken figures which I'm still waiting to be replaced.. I just don't need mountains of plastic heroes any more.

[@TheKingofAverage]

oh what a huge bummer :(

[@Madgaar]

I didn't say star wars the social deduction game, I said terminator the resource optimization puzzle or something along those lines 😉

[@TheKingofAverage]

As long as the laser shots are the right color all is well. Perhaps it's like making a Terminator movie, but then only using stuff from Terminator 3? :D

[@Cybrdra6on]

I backed for $1 so I could follow and participate in comments. I also like the minis for use in other games. But I think I will actually cancel my pledge because there is zero chance I'm completing the PM at this price, especially after the add-ons and additional price there. Maybe I'll pick it up on clearance at retail later.

[@korofrog]

You know, Trudvang was the last CMON project I backed and unless things improve with them it will probably the exact last one I backed. It's a shame because they do put out decent games but the fact that they push out campaigns one right after another sounds like they are having some horrible mismanagement going on there and they need the campaigns just to stay afloat. For this campaign, I like the cyberpunk setting but yeah....area control just doesn't quite scratch the itch. If this had been like the cyberpunk version of Imperial Assault, I'd have been very tempted to throw more money at CMON.

[@m4rcelokkc]

Last proyect i backed was cthulhu death may die... they charge me 80 bucks from shipping to Argentina. I así for a refund in bloodborne cause they want to charge me 150 of shipping... For people outside of the us kickstarter is the only way to get sooner or even get a copy of the retail version. Zombicide second edition is imposible to get unless yo find someone who send it from the exterior. When they try to charge ridiculuss shipping they are hurting the comunity

[@mikeb2598]

Star Wars social deduction… hmmm… all players are members of the senate but one player is secretly the Sith Lord. Could be fun.

[@TheKingofAverage]

Yall are making me second guess reasonable desires for a board game with these ideas!

[@bjhale]

So a ripoff/reskin of Secret Hitler?😅

[@christiankloenne7365]

Normally I back a CMON campaign on day 1, but when I scrolled through the campaign just after launch there wasn`t even a strech goal map, at first I thought it was a campaign without SG´s like Night of the Living Dead Zombicide. Maybe they try to imitate the buggy launch of the CDRed Cyberpunk;)

[@nickhayes1626]

I’ve never been a huge fan of CMON, but got sucked into the MotU Kickstarter. I guess I better go ahead and order those MotU expansions before they aren’t available anymore; just in case.

[@donbooger]

$70 shipping to Australia.... I might check flight prices to China on the next campaign, just do pickup option from the factory...

[@bilcorp1]

numbers in video: 183k usd, 2450 backers. 4 days to go:511k usd, 4900 backers (10 days after video).... this is one "BIG BAD". big bad, in my native language "veľký-špatný" is something like "so close to dissater" - one big bunch of problems.

[@picchixavier1695]

Could also be that after the videogame disaster people are not very keen on buying something from this IP

[@Memmnarch1981]

When I hear CP Board Game I think of something like Witcher The Old World or a dungeon crawler. But not something like this.

[@zerosdeath]

So, I was not the only one then? this seems like a rehash of Godfather.

[@TheKingofAverage]

Exactly, same! The Witcher is a great example. It did very well and stayed true to being inspired and reflecting the IP it had. This is painted on so thinly you can see the seams right away.

[@Groovestonenz]

100%. This iteration has more in common with the Godfather, or the phenomenal looking Scarface 1920.

[@Yoshis_Studio]

CMON's business model of front funding via Kickstarter is starting to wear thin. All these KS have to be expensive now, they have IPs to pay for. Honestly, CMON has been in business long enough and had enough success via KS they should have had more than enough money to start running like a business should and stop using KS as a crutch for products to launch. It's one thing for an indy developer to use KS, another thing entirely for a multi million dollar company to depend on it.. Should I even go into how they really killed their "roots" when they stopped the Crystal Brush, which was all but the culmination of what CMON started as.....a site about voting on people's minis?

[@sonicshark123]

Ive backed zombicide undead or Alive, should ive worried or is the last worth Game they did before the shitstorm?

[@AFatalPapercut]

CMON is the Activision of the board game hobby....down to annual reskinned releases of games (Zombicide) that people buy out of habit more than anything. #ChangeMyMind

[@Smerfu]

In my opinion, they are more like EA

[@TheKingofAverage]

Which one is the lesser of the two evils? :D

[@zerosdeath]

Yup, you are paying for the micro-transactions AKA SG that they removed from the base game. Want it, pony up the dough!!

[@pecktec]

Man I love the way you explain things.

[@chrismiller4863]

Like the idea of talking to my local game store. I don’t need to with this one. I am full up on shelf hogging plastic. I think it is pretty sad the way marvel zombies went down but the reality is if they feel any backlash, it will be some poor admin assistant or something who gets laid off to reduce operating costs, not the people making those decisions. The thing I find more disappointing is I don’t see any real innovation. At best it is an iteration with an IP slapped on.

[@TheKingofAverage]

Good point and indeed unfortunate. Obviously the message isn't heard as we've not see any actual outreach from them so no new attitude showing an inkling of respect from them. It's not the devs fault or the artists of even the community people that are there. But they get the short end of the stick from both ends, ours and CMON's I'm sure.

[@dennisdonetti1675]

I think your initial argument hurt your second argument. I agree completely with your assessment of the campaign. It looks rushed and is a crap treatment of a crap IP. Given that, I think the conclusion that CMON backlash is contributing is a little premature. It’s too early to tell if we would see this kind of backlash of people avoiding purchasing a normal quality CMON campaign. If that happens then it will truly be backlash. I think for now it’s more data needed.

[@TheKingofAverage]

Fair point, time will tell. If they came back with more Marvel stuff, would people still stand firm? If they came out with a DC one....would I? :D

[@JasonSmithPsychedelicTherapist]

Massive Darkness 2 is awesome. SO FUN. And a great deal considering I went all in and got a real low shipping quote, which they didn't request additional funds for like Oathsworn. So maybe it all evens out. I did cancel my Marvel Zombies. It would be so fun to have that whole all in but it was too expensive BEFORE the shipping and dodgy non communication. I'll be playing Maasive Darkness for a long time anyway. 😁😎🙏

[@kombainasable]

Marvel Zombies shipping likely pays for MD2 budget oversights. it was the project where they added VAT midway, and who knows what other oversights they had along with it.

[@JoseMedia2421]

Marvel united expansion never went to retail. So there is fomo. I worry xmen core box for Marvel Zombies won't go to retail and that unlocks the hero play.

[@TheKingofAverage]

Less money from me then, that's what I really want. Wasn't wanting it for $200+ in the KS with shipping though mind.

[@johnphillips4733]

+20% Vat on the game AND shipping for the UK backers... not my sort of game anyway, but that's way too much.

[@HowardAbraham]

I adore Cyberpunk but only pledged $1 to follow the campaign. I want to know the full cost before I commit beyond that.

[@hughroe8598]

I really like cyberpunk (the rpg system rather than the mediocre game) and its hard to get nice models for the system so I was keeping an eye on this. Turns out CMON wasted time and interest yet again by having ridiculous shipping costs which have no bearing on reality. At this point, I am not sure whether CMON is more at fault or I am for expecting more of them.

[@revanruler6404]

It's sad to say this but when you're used to gw even cmon looks good

[@Mars-xc1ns]

No one wanted this This was another one of their poor dudes on a map game. I'm not surprised it's slow. They don't listen to what we want: Thundercats boardgame Death May Die Season 3 Sequel to The Others....

[@shadowovergotham6771]

I have to disagree about the theme fitting to the game. The game is dripping with theme. I played it several times in tabletop simulator and when you know the lore or the video game , all comes together in the board game. And that is even without the extra modules

[@Schlagathor78]

Agree! I have the games (video game and board game) and CMON captured the theme great.

[@zerosdeath]

I havbe stayed off social media for mnoths now. I am sick and tired of CMON. At this point they don't do anything else other companies don't do. It's the same sorry game they push out every year. Want Zombicide 5000? At this point, I am sure they are removing content, and adding it back in as SG. Over this crap.

[@joelbergvonlinde1389]

You think Cyberpunk is the same game as Zombicide? Was marvel united also zombicide? Was Ankh?

[@elisabethcruz2424]

It is not necessary to go for the 1€ pledge and wait till the PM to see if CMON is gonna charge us extra for the shipping. Cyberpunk shipping estimates are 60$ for a core box…. I paid 87€ for the Kingdoms Forlorn ALL-IN… please people, open your eyes, CMON is already doing it again

[@karaso0]

Same here, you get infinitely more game with KoF and shipping was waaaaay more manageable. Even if they end up hitting me up for more support I dont mind because you get so much game with it. I've also back stormsunder and shipping was fine and that's about about 60lbs of game.

[@zerosdeath]

They are lazy as hell IMO. Kingdoms Forlorn reminded me of Demon Soul's in board game form. Everything about that called me to go all-in. Where I will get great gameplay.

[@Froh]

Obviously the campaign feels rushed. Though I kinda disagree on the mismatching between gameplay and the game. Cyberpunk is not just a video game but a full universe created for Role Playing Books, and the various districts and clans are pushed by both the books and the video game (where you can be a part of several ones). It's obviously not an RPG, but it still the depicted universe.

[@trepanator6]

200-220 €£$ for such simplistic game? Sure bro, here's $1 pledge. ;)

[@cyder534]

Right? Especially as there are so many deep, intriguing games on the way or to launch. They would have made so much money if they had gone the route of an RPG in a box.

[@hw8991]

I like King of Average but I don't think this video was quite grounded, and I'm certainly not posting this comment because I was some kind of fanboy. - "This game didn't fund in 1 hour - this could be the death of [CMON]".. well, it still got atleast a sum that a niche - not fantasy nor coop nor an Eric Lang trilogy - game could be expected to get on a first day. I think the IP is over-estimated by online analysts. If this game was launched in the PC game launch window it could have been a fair judgement about the pledge rate. Way after the PC game buzz have subsided it is hard for me to understand this notion of the expected pledge rate. "The page only shows 3 figures per gang, makes me think that is everything you get - the whole campaign is rushed".. maybe I'm in the minority but I've always felt that the million copies of the same type / sculpt of a unit on the page was a cluttered exposition for children. Personally I thought we were past that stage in Kickstarter campaigns. "The shipping is outrageous".. for many I'm sure it actually is. However, where I live, after comparing it to what shipping costs just from a store in the same country, I actually found $50 to be comparatively cheap for that size and weight from China. But never mind that for now. There is no reason to think that the Marvel shipping tirefire went by unnoticed by CMON; so, is it at all outside of the possibility that CMON tries to give a better prediction and headsup up front this time? I don't know if backers will find a sour shipping surprise one more time but I do think CMON is well aware of what that will do to their reputation if it happens again. "We got no updates or information about what that particular Edgerunner does.".. I could misremember but hasn't that always been that, just like in this campaign, the details about [monsters] are in updates and not on the campaign page? Maybe an example Edgerunner wouldn't have hurt there but that these kinds of details are in updates can hardly signify that the campaign is rushed. "The IP is misused".. even if the IP was only the FPS game, it still has a world and setting, and this IP does have distinct gangs with distinct features, quite natural for an area control game. "There's no gameplay videos".. at first yes I agree the video they had was atrocious. But just later DT had a good clear live playthrough. Nothing of the game has technical holes, and I don't think many can say that the game has practical holes either. Read the rulebook and the DT video, I don't think you can maintain that the game isn't close to finished. I'm not trying to bash King of Average nor trying to praise CMON, I just feel that KOA was too eager to jump to conclusions.

[@mermuse]

I wish CMON would just go back to what they are good at… minis. Release small packs of plastic mini’s through normal distribution channels and everyone will be happy. I bought a few of their 7sins mini sets through Amazon and was very happy with them. Unfortunately I’ve been disappointed with the majority of their actual games and their handling of their Kickstarters. Let other companies make games and handle distribution… Just make cool mini’s again and make them easy to get.

[@markobanjac2068]

How did you get KS on darkmode?

[@TheKingofAverage]

I use Opera GX. It's Chromium based just like Chrome and Edge so can import all bookmarks, autofills, add-ons, everything but has many nice features. One of those is a more robust Dark mode force setting. :)

[@legobloggen]

* I think the game would almost have fared better without the Cyperpunk 2077 IP slapped on it. At least it feels like the game would be a lot cheaper. * The price seems ridiculous, especiallyas a EU resident. Having to pay VAT on top of that price... With that money I could go to my local game store and buy a game with a "billion" miniatures and probably have money left to get an expansion or two or three... So it'll need to be one hell of a game to be worth that. And it really doesn't look like this game is that.

[@Lonestar1771]

CMON F'ed around and found out.

[@197mmCannon]

I got burned by wrath of kings Kickstarter and I never backed another game from them. I play ASoIaF, I just won’t do a Kickstarter by them anymore.

[@TheKingofAverage]

What happened with Wrath of Kings?

[@andrewjackson7511]

CMON just hid my comment on a trailer on their offical chanel, it can now only be viewed by me. They don’t take critiscm very well do they…

[@fairdav]

OMG the shipping costs. If this is not bullsh*t, I don't know what it is.

[@zachras9643]

Thanks for the info!

[@mattnottm8363]

After watching the whole video I agree with your comment about this campaign being rushed and one that CMON themselves don't care about, considering the new stretch goals have absolutely no gameplay information. I may be wrong but it's as if they've released this game knowing it will take a hammering in order to protect the next 'Zombicide' reskin that is bound to follow in a few months time.

[@TheKingofAverage]

Oh hmmm yeah that's not an unfounded thought. Certainly possible. Notice that they estimated this to be lower, they put their funding goal based on how much they think it will make and this is the lowest.

[@mattnottm8363]

@@TheKingofAverage Low funding goal, stretch goals 5K apart right from the start (no pivoting to a new strategy when the funding stalled like with Trudvang), a game system that doesnt fit with the IP ..... which itself is already an established car crash. They knew this was gonna be a fail before they even launched it. Nevermind the high shipping estimates which are no doubt being inflated purely to cover the shipping of previous campaigns like Z: Undead or Alive/ Trudvang. If this went directly to retail with all the content revealed so far but at half the price, no doubt many people would've picked it up and enjoyed it.

[@01hornsfan]

But…but…it’s one of Kickstarter’s “Projects We Love!” Surely that designation is only given out to the most special, highest quality Kickstarter projects, right? That means the game HAS to be worth backing, right? Kickstarter themselves are vouching for it! 😛

[@zerosdeath]

AKA Please hurry and give us money we are going broke!

[@TheKingofAverage]

Ironically, that tag is manually applied by an actual person employed by KS.

[@drgnmstr44]

I think this is one is failing for even more reasons. yes the shipping for Marvel zombies is crazy and people are upset about and voicing their concerns. Yes CMON censoring people voicing their concerns isn't helping either. The game really doesn't look interesting at least to me and if they aren't excited for the stretch goal unlocks then why do the game. I think something that is also probably effecting the KS is the fact it's Cyberpunk 2077, based on a video game that had a lot of hype, delivered a very broken game for a lot of people, and from a company people trusted that just lied to their face. I love playing Cyberpunk 2077 and playing through again in a different way. I'm glad it has been fixed but I think there is so much hate for that video game, and the practices of CMON recently, that it's effecting this Kickstarter. That isn't to say all their games are garbage either. I have 4 of their games and we play them a lot. Recent practices with the marvel zombies, censoring backers and comments because it's giving you bad reputation, and that I already backed a different cyberpunk style game keep me from this one.