What Is Fedora Silverblue?

[@TheLinuxCast]

I'm still very much a noob, so if I got anything really wrong, do let me know. You can leave a comment here or shout at me on Mastodon: fosstodon.org/@thelinuxcast

[@RockawayCCW]

Does it allow editing things in /etc? things like fstab or swappiness?

[@TheLinuxCast]

@@RockawayCCW yes. That was a mistake on my part

[@djsensacion7]

@@RockawayCCWyou can modify things under '/' but not under '/usr/' and most things will be spawned from '/var' that's where things will live that the user can modify and install into. Granted /home/user/var is per the same but at ta user level. The update process is the best feature as your updates go through seamless, but there are applications that still have trouble with this system. Example : Firefox cannot talk to KeepassXC because both are in a flatpak. That is typically a flatpak issue because of the sandbox nature but there will be incompatibilities with software like this in Silverblue. IDE's & VPN's, and other tools have to be layered instead of a toolbox or Flatpak.

[@Sjoerd1993]

Just want to add, /etc on Silverblue is actually mutable and does not get overwritten on updates. If I recall correctly it kinda works like git, and it does keep track of the differences between the default and your own configuration. I have been using Silverblue as my daily driver for a year now. The biggest benefit for me personally is that it prevents system rot. No more million dependencies that maybe clash or are no longer used. It's much easier to keep my system itself clean, ans if I want to I can reset to the state of a new system with a single command. Also being able to just rebase to a beta, check it out, and move back on a single reboot, all without any loss in the user space is amazing. I also switch between Workstation and Kinoite from time to time, all without having half of the other DE still installed. Just have to keep the config files for both DEs separated.

[@VictoriaMan69]

The steam deck's steamOS is immutable with the benefit being that Valve knows exactly what hardware/software each of their systems is running which, as you said, helps with stability and security. Also helps newbs not screw up their systems so they can always be reset after an update. Also kinda a pain in the ass when you want to interact with the system files...

[@speedytruck]

Silverblue is perfect for me because it provides a stable identical base that everyone shares. It makes bug reporting and reproducing so much easier. And my development workflow hasn't really changed by the immutable base because it was all in containers anyways. IMO, this is much better than having random toolchains lying around in your host. Btw, you don't need to restart for installing software with rpm-ostree if you use --apply-live flag. Though, I'd keep layering packages to an absolute minimum (only for drivers, etc) so that your base doesn't diverge much.

[@Novacification]

This is the kind of thing that is needed to provide true entry points into Linux for the average user. People who just use Discord, game and a browser doesn't need access to the operating system packages. They will never gain anything from having the option to delete python and dump xserver etc. Having distros that isolate and manage their own packages, so you cannot accidentally uninstall anything important, would go a long way to make Linux safe for wide adoption.

[@fragdq]

I use Silverblue too, used Arch for years, used Fedora Workstation, Debian etc. Silverblue is great and is the future. Other OS systems already use this and it works good. I also play games on Silverblue, it runs perfectly, even better than on Arch. On Arch there was always some issue, even if it was minor, they were there and annoying sometimes. Haven't had a single issue on Silverblue so far. Also, the "rebase" thing is nice, you can easy peasy rebase your system to the latest beta Fedora for example and jump back to your pinned main system. It just works.

[@MFTAQ]

Matt you did a excellent job explaining this and now i have a better understanding of Silver Blue as i have been using it a couple days. I can see this being the future for beginner OS's if they are not tinkers.

[@SB-ev4ip]

Thank you for the extended explanation! I'm not up to speed with with the immutable concept, worth trying.

[@Sqwert-g6h]

The best part of toolbox/distrobox is that it can still access files in your home directory. Simply the best environment for development.

[@bjorn2625]

Yeah this is something that really doesn’t get enough attention in this otherwise great video; Silverblue is actually great for developers, lay-people and people who need a stable base for running a bunch of servers in containers. If you want to run stuff directly onto the OS, like running your own mail server directly on the OS, Silverblue is more hassle. But even in that case, if you accept the hassle, you probably still end up with a system that handles configuration errors better.

[@williamg4272]

He does a reasonably good job of explaining this. I whish I had seen this before I tried out an immutable distro.

[@MichaelSharpTechniSmart]

Good job. A minor point: Firefox is installed by default with Silverblue, although you can still install Firefox through Gnome Software as a flatpak.

[@ThePhatLe]

well i went full daily on Fedora 38 silverblue and after that saw your video on it, but i love this way too much

[@faustipez]

I finally could understand what Fedora Silverblue actually is. You did an amazing job breaking all down. I''m not going to lie, Silverblue looks VERY interesting, I believe there are a couple of "downsides" left, the benefits are a lot more. Pushing technologies like Toolbox, Distrobox and Flatpaks is better, once you get the people used to them, most of the problems with the Linux Desktop, distributions, packaging, etc. will be gone. I'm not really sure if this technolog fits the server space as well, but would be interesting to know a real use case for a Linux server using an inmutable filesystem. Thank you for the thorough research about Silverblue, I think your video sums all up very well.

[@JorgeCastro]

Tech like this actually started in the server space and is only now making it's way into client. It's not uncommon for cluster workloads to run on CoreOS, Flatcar, Talos, etc.

[@faustipez]

@@JorgeCastro That's interesting, I haven't seen myself a server running any of those systems though, maybe the bigger ones are using these technologies.

[@rmcellig]

That's what I love about puppy Linux. It has always been immutable. I have been using it for years. Simple, fast and customizable. Love it!!!!!

[@零云-u7e]

downside is dealing w non-flatpak, as far as rebasing. Using a toolbox/podman is still kinda heavy if you are not developing with this. OCI at 500mb. I discovered a cool thing. My side hobby, making music on linux..... container that away! That's regardless of Silverblue/uBlue. I never thought to contain my DAW and everything, but it makes sense because audio software and plugin sprawl goes thru horrible upgrading. Just like dev, you want to keep all that mess away from your base system once it's all set up right. Not intuitive, but once you learn toolbox/distrobox and podman, worth it.

[@MrAndrewKeyboards]

Oh hoooo! You have a video about this! (Not surprised, actually 😂) Watching it, and here's your like, sir!

[@pauldufresne3650]

I don't think Nix and Guix are immutable. It is more that *each program are in a a separate directory* of the store directory... and there is profile for a user that determines which program is in path... so that it is easy to change profile (you can choose to boot with an older generation). So the feeling is similar to have immutability, but nothing stop you to go to the store directory and mess with everything (as far as I know). But because the store is a complex thing, Nixos use toolboxs too to have different environment where you use the nix package environment to install programs. And you can have many differrent toolboxs (environments). In NixOS, each user have a different profile (list of programs in PATH), and it is not necessary to reboot to change profile (or generation).

[@ddman7867]

its finally here!

[@TheLinuxCast]

Yes, it took forever.

[@Zgembo121]

Its here 🎉

[@the1trancedemon]

24:00 some kde themes come with custom boot and login splash screens which need root hence that error.

[@whiskeylinux]

Thanks for explaining!

[@toddpark2893]

Very interesting. Thank you for sharing.

[@MohammedNimreesh]

This is a very interesting video .. very detailed and great explanation.. thanks a lot 🌼 🌸

[@rafaelmorais1634]

It is possible to install programs without rebooting using the apply-live option of rpm-ostree

[@philippeheyvaert3742]

Hi Matt, I use distrobox. I've created a Debian 11 install and I'm running Arch on it using Distrobox. I'm testing it out in Virtual Box. but it will be on my other Laptop soon. It's a nice tool since you can install apps on Arch and route them to Debian. Installed Alacritty that way. Nice video, have to check Silverblue out.

[@philippeheyvaert3742]

I'm playing with Silverblue in Virtual Box. The rpm-ostree rollback command is sweet. You can rollback after a rpm-ostree upgrade, rollback again to the updated version. Checking available version is easy rpm-ostree status in the terminal. And updates are so fast, Fedora Workstation is not THIS fast, even after a reconfig of dnf. I'm checking out flathub for some packages right now. Seems like I'm not going to do any Python today, because I like what I see right now 😀

[@philippeheyvaert3742]

All works fine, looks like a very nice Fedora install. Thank you Matt for explaining this version of Fedora. I've been doing some config to get to a good final result. One tip: if you see 'systemctl reboot' as one of the final lines in the output of an operation in the terminal, do it! The toolbox is quite nice, have to explore it some more, but this distribution is a contender for me (I'm not a ricing-addict like you Matt). I do like to play with Python instead. Greets 🙂

[@tedhurst8939]

In the right place at the right time, again! It is a comforting place. ;-)

[@leopard3131]

Very nice review. You have come so far from Arch and look how much you learned. Fedora has a number of cool features.

[@Sqwert-g6h]

Once I get Silverblue set up the way I like it, I only reboot once a week because I setup automatic updates.

[@hotwings9382]

Great video explanation 😊 Please explain Ubuntu core next.

[@ssmith99]

Immutable: the favorite vocabulary word of my apcsa teacher

[@pauldufresne3650]

I think he did not mention enough toolbox. toolbox allows you to create environments and switch between them, and each environment is mutable (use the normal package manager). So, you can do almost anything in them... I am unsure but I think you can have a different desktop environment in each environment you create.

[@peppe540]

Thanks Matt, great one. Cannot be a coincidence I started using these OS's for a trial this week ;-) MicroOS KDE on the laptop works great; on the desktop I am onto Fedora (both versions simultaneously since you can easily switch between them). Do like the concept, but I read up on it before. For developers this is absolutely great, running multiple environments without changing or borking your basic OS. Stability top, some quirks have been ironed out. But yes, you are limited. i guess that's why Gnome is good for this; it's nature is already more limiting so the users are used to that I guess (familiar with extensions et al). As a KDE user it has a bit more challenges ;-).

[@moneyfr]

have you changed camera i see some fps extra ?

[@mahdip.4674]

How long is a given version supported? Is it LTS or needs system upgrade like Fedora cycle?

[@TheLinuxCast]

It's the same as fedora main.

[@Herminafried]

If you want to use Silverblue/Kinoite with SecureBoot on prop Nvidia graphics, you will get some headaches. But there is a solution.

[@donpeer4477]

I like the idea of the OS being untouchable by the user when the user is new or young. BTW, how is ricing going on the laptop's Silverblue? Bars? Tiling WM? etc

[@milohoffman274]

I love the idea and I think the Fedora people will be the ones to figure all this out and bring it to the rest of the Linux community. However, I have ONE CONCERN, they still basically have zero way right now to distribute incremental patches, and are totally dependent on major fully system image updates only. That leaves you open to ZERO DAY events.

[@wooshbait36]

Nobody targets this system so 0 day threats don't exist

[@TylerRayPittman]

​@@wooshbait36good ol security through obscurity /s

[@wooshbait36]

@@TylerRayPittman Who cares about shitty fedora, yet alone waste time to study it and find vulnerability?

[@itildude]

My take on immutables is there are use cases where it can shine (development being a big one)... but for general users, power users, other normal use, I think it is a PITA overhead that doesn't make sense.

[@wisnoskij]

I heard about this a few times, and it really sounds like their are no real benefits, outside of public computers that reset every night/user. First of all, that is mostly how computers work nowadays in a less formal mater. We modify the home directory, everything else is mostly static most of the time. We can install stuff with less hoops, but installing stuff is necessary for a private computer. We are simply not going to be able to make identical non customizable personal computers work, no one is going to accept that, even if they would be easier to support, so we implement workarounds that are harder to use and end up with the same customizable mess that is hard to support. TL;DR: When you start breaking the entire point (a non customizable OS that only differed on the HW level), then you just end up with a product that is worse in every area than what you started with.

[@codyofathens3397]

What's the immutable Ubuntu distro? I tried googling it and only found a server edition and something for IOT devices. Is that what he meant, or is there a desktop distro that's immutable from Ubuntu?

[@TheLinuxCast]

Vanilla Os

[@codyofathens3397]

@@TheLinuxCast oh, cool, thanks! Also, it always makes my day when a KZbinr I admire actually replies directly to me. Thanks. I love your channel, and I think you're awesome. You've helped me out a *lot* on my journey.

[@TheLinuxCast]

@@codyofathens3397 Glad you like the videos!

[@astrailiaous_Sempticreed]

Is silver blue free?

[@TheLinuxCast]

As in free of charge? Yes. As in freedom? Also, yes.

[@yoyoma2026]

My dog just walked around the tree and tangled her lead up into it. I'm in my PJs... what should I do? If I wait long enough, maybe she will untangle herself?

[@phonewithoutquestion80]

Still using Silverblue and may stick to it. I've whittled down gnome to be as basic as possible, just to see how long I can go without extensions. It's a nice experimental take for system durability, but it does fly in the face of typical filesystem trees of Linux distributions. I haven't noticed anything disparaging, or non-friendly. It isn't for deeper tinkering outside of containers and rebasing, but I'm fine with that. I don't care about all this future standards hyping or indifference, it just works for me and that's all that matters. Thank you for covering this. 👍 EDIT: On the tinkering part I must expand further and recognize the roll-your-own side of things, so yes deeper tinkering is there but handled much differently compared to non-ostree distributions.

[@xperience-evolution]

Vanilla OS is immutable, so is Nix OS and I think openSUSE Micro OS is similar. Carbon OS too. I think more and more Distros will incluede some immutability. And their Package manager is actually immutable not only the Flatpacks.

[@darthkielbasa]

Gonna toss this on unraid as a vm. VanillaOS has been stable but I prefer fedora.

[@MyAmazingUsername]

Hmm, I have been thinking about it for months. Silverblue seems so pointless. I was thinking "oh, nice, so my OS is like a blind, immutable host and I run everything in containers, so I won't end up with tons of orphaned packages and dependencies on the host when I install dev tools, remove things, etc". Then I realized: Every user has to install copies of every app, which wastes disk space. All configuration must be repeated per-user instead of system-wide, which wastes time. And all package bloat is inside containers instead, so you still end up with huge lists of orphaned dependencies, but now they are inside a container that you must manually manage, so now you just have an extra layer of hard work to manage. Oh and hey, you can use distro box on any distro if you really want to. I can't convince myself that Silverblue is a good idea, except for newbies who really only need Flatpaks. For developers, it's either a nightmare or totally pointless, since you can already run distrobox on any distro.

[@wooshbait36]

I ain't reading allat lil bro but good luck 🙏

[@moumnalmunawy1806]

You know vanilla os?

[@oraclejmt]

Yeah, it's pretty rigged in it's architecture, and it's not corporation backed.

[@sinitsyn2000]

i'm writing this comment before viewing the video. I use silverblue daily for 2 months. It is a good desktop system in my opinion, but a bit hacky and does not fit the household imo. I really like the rolling+stable (wtf) experience in general, but there is a red flag in my case. I use musician-specific software, which is not supported (or maybe not convinient to setup) in fedora. There is no way to set up kxstudio repositories, and as far as I'm aware it is the case for fedora in general. Flatpak versions does not support win32/64 versions of VST-plugins. This system stopped my musician hobby since I installed it. It is something to consider, I think. I'm now migrating to something else.

[@Anthropomorphic]

If it's available on another distro, you could try running it in Distrobox.

[@leopard3131]

Try the Fedora Jam spin

[@sinitsyn2000]

​@@Anthropomorphic it sucks imo

[@sinitsyn2000]

@@leopard3131 still no kxstudio

[@gljames24]

I've be looking at Vanilla Os to try out an immutable filesystem with support for apt packages with apx.

[@AhmedFaisal13]

If you recall anything about computing in the millennia beginning, you may remember Deep Freeze. An amazing Windo$e tool were mainly used in cyber cafes and on PCs of Virus-phobes. That was the closest thing.

[@jimmyrichards5595]

chattr +i chattr -i 😊

[@slalomsk8er397]

No thanks, I'm going deeper with Guix and rde at the moment to have some of the immutable features without rebooting all the time.

[@Zgembo121]

My sex life is also immutable 😢

[@X-101]

Naw Immutable is actually good for non tech people ie someone coming from windows because most people who try Linux end up breaking it by installing random shit and go back to windows

[@denizkendirci]

silverblue and other immutables are being developed for a reason. and they are a gift for developers and system admins etc. but i really don't like distros (vanilla os, nitrux os etc) which are trying to bring immutablity to the everyday user. that's a very stupid idea and i really i hope that isn't the future.

[@Ghfvhvfg]

For school devices customized silverblue in education seems like absurdly good ideas zero hassle for the admin if there is a bug report bug then rpm-ostree rollback of course remotely, what a dream maybe than Apple could be pushed out of the edu space classroom replacement may be the ownly problem……

[@4IdiotsGaming]

desktop background kinda sus

[@mdd1963]

02:09 lost interest…. :)

[@itildude]

We're so glad you let us all know.

[@goneg1338]

Use rpm-ostree ex apply-live after installing a package so you wouldn't need to reboot.

[@bigbrain8839]

Fedora WHAT