Modernism vs. Postmodernism

Modernism and Postmodernism are two cultural stages with their own worldviews. In this episode we talk about the emergence and differences between these ages and look at the contrast between postmodern philosophy and the Modern philosophy of the Enlightenment that preceded it.
This episode is an exploration of the two worldviews whose conflict is so prominent in our world today.
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Media Used:
1. Lost Frontier - Kevin MacLeod
2. There’s Probably No Time - Chris Zabriskie
3. Drums of the Deep - Kevin MacLeod
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⌛ Timestamps:
00:00 A Tale of Two Worldviews
00:47 Modernity
05:04 Postmodernity
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#Postmoderism #thelivingphilosophy #modernity #philosophy #postmodernity

[@TheLivingPhilosophy]

Love the channel? Want early access and other stuff? Check out the Patreon page 💸 Patreon: patreon.com/thelivingphilosophy ⌛ Timestamps: 00:00 A Tale of Two Worldviews 00:47 Modernity 05:04 Postmodernity

[@satnamo]

Yes, I do, J!

[@DrLewis-yf1sd]

As a literary professor with some specialization in Postmodernism, I think you did a great job at summarizing Modernism/Postmodernism in just 10 minutes. Well done.

[@TheLivingPhilosophy]

Oh wow thank you very much that genuinely means a lot! Always good to know I'm at least heading in the right direction!

[@jose.montojah]

Please professor, you are the vanguard: move on! it's _M E T A M O D E R N_ time!

[@DrLewis-yf1sd]

@@jose.montojah, yes I am up to date with Metamodernism. (Whether 'Metamodernism' is in fact a Zeitgeist, like Modernism and Postmodernism was, is questionable. Other terms to consider are Post-postmodernism, Hypermodernism, and Transmodernism.)

[@ryanhoffman5477]

Funny how the actions of the postmodern philosophers had a dark sexuality. It seems that the postmodernist had an agenda to justify their dark sexuality, pedophilia.

[@puddintame7794]

Post modernism is a fad only followed by the elite. No reasonable normal believes sterilizing children is empowering or gender affirming. Sane people don't believe all the evils in the world comes from capitalism and only a fool lets others do their thinking for them. Because, unlike the elite who live in echo chambers insulated from the real world, we know first hand that fire burns and water wets... "And that after this is accomplished, and the brave new world begins When all men are paid for existing and no man must pay for his sins, As surely as Water will wet us, as surely as Fire will burn, The Gods of the Copybook Headings with terror and slaughter return!"

[@patrickclamrod9454]

I appreciate the video. My understanding of postmodernism is somewhat different, so I’m going to try to articulate how, and see if anyone has a response. It seems to me that postmodernism’s definition is much larger than the one you’ve presented here. Although it definitely is concerned with the balance of power and organization of societies, to me it is particularly distinguished by the lack of faith in objective truth. It is cynical in the sense that it criticizes most attempts at explanation for why human affairs should be organized in any particular way. And it seems to always point at the power structures behind the scenes, and says that power creates its own logic. But it does not seem to provide any viable alternative. The point of view of postmodernism eliminates the idea that a ‘proper’ way to organize is possible. And this is not to say it is wrong, but I sensed a judgement call in your definition of it. Relating to this, I find that the connectivity and accessibility of information in today’s world has furthered the postmodern condition. We find that we’re not standing on such solid ground, in our understanding of ‘truth’, and that much of it is determined by our environment and emotions, etc. I’m interested to hear about this ‘next phase’, but I’m skeptical of the suggestion that these developments have been positive in the way that you seem to imply.

[@davidlenz9902]

Sadly, the video follows and assumes the biased framework of postmodernity (and actually what i just refer to as modernity, lol). The bias is that while the old order of the "white Christian heterosexual, able bodied male" is being torn down, along with their traditional, western presuppositions, the new order denies it's own claims and intentions, specifically that it is a aesthetic value within a hierarchy of values. The current philosophical left cannot just label itself another orthodoxy with values of their own.

[@Postlong2]

I would make a subtle but important distiction. Postmodernism is not a direct challange to 'objective truth' or 'absolute truth'. It is a radical skeptism towards ideologues knowledge claims of this type of truth. One can still say 'absolute truth' is unknown but somethings are more true than others.

[@OneConsciousnessWithAaron]

I like your comments and points therein, but quickly point to our very discussion here as a counter to “furthering the postmodern condition”. I find relatively solid ground right here, on this platform, and see that you do too as well:)

[@OneConsciousnessWithAaron]

@@Postlong2 radical skepticism is a rather unfortunate byproduct of modernism found in post modernism, good point

[@OneConsciousnessWithAaron]

To the comments this far, and James please feel free to delete my post as it has a link in it to After Skool’s video, but the video addresses our discussion here and may give some impetus to a future video here by our very own Living Philosopher (or at least I hope so) kzbin.info/www/bejne/qJKtn2mdqt5gq7M

[@RuslanKD]

Great summarization. It sounds like Dr King was pointing people back to the promises of modernity. Not attempting to over throw it. Perhaps this is what postmodernist did but then backdoor’d a bunch of nonsense as well.

[@wulfkine1800]

Wonderful video. I love learning how philosophy fits into grand historical narratives and zeitgeists. It reminds you how ideas which shape the world are a product of their times and the enduring will of the human spirit and intellect. In that sense there is always room and arguably a need for philosophy and philosophers.

[@Azazello243]

Thanks for bringing the concept of metamodernism to my attention. I've been looking for how to systematize my different thoughts and observations on the tension between the two, and that seems to be a great keyword to search for new and inspiring material.

[@jayavardhanjosyula6509]

I think I looked for a simple, comprehensive video explaining the essence of both these ideas for almost 10 years on and off. Cheers for such a concise and effective video. Very grateful and impressed.

[@funforall9741]

Thank you for the clear divide between the two ideologies, it really helps unblur the line between the two and differentiate them

[@time3735]

I love that your videos do not fail to include different things that different people with different ideologies agree or may not agree. You make it more educational and less of a ideological proganda. I've never been able to figure out what ideologies you follow 😂 which is why I love it, you don't include your biases.

[@TheLivingPhilosophy]

Hahaha I can't think of higher praise thanks for that!

[@mimisides]

I disagree. To say that "modernity had failed" by the middle of the 20th C, by selectively highlighting certain negative impacts of technological advancement, is the language of the Marxist. In reality it was marxism that had failed. 100 years after the publication of the Communist manifesto, it's predictions had spectacularly failed to materialise. Rather than the middle class collapsing into poverty it was booming, and the West was experiencing prosperity like it never had. Meanwhile, in 1956 two events highlighted the failure of Communism. Firstly, there was the highly publicised uprising in Hungary, and secondly, Kruschev laid bare the horrors of Stalin. In short, they could no longer hide the failure of Marxism, and so it was repackaged as postmodernism - the rejection of facts and logic, as if we used those we'd reject socialism, in all its forms out of hand. And now it has bared its teeth - you can thank postmodernism for the ridiculous situation we now find ourselves in, where (as one of many examples I could give) it is now controversial to say that men and women are different. In simplest terms, postmodernism is nothing more than repackaged Marxism.

[@antoinereininger9834]

Great video as usual. For the record, the Delacroix painting featured at 1:46 (La Liberté guidant le peuple) doesn't depict the 1789 revolution but the 1830 one.

[@TheLivingPhilosophy]

Right you are sometimes I use anachronistic paintings because they do so well at painting the picture and some people outwit me with their deep knowledge of art!

[@argentaegis]

Im not sure theres a compelling postmodern argument for the moral good of advocacy for the disadvantaged. The purpose seems aimed at critique of existing power structures. For example: In this video Dr King argues that Life Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness are good things that he wants for his people. He says the agreement was that his people could have them, and that the current systems are failing to garauntee those rights. Its not that the, archtipically modern, values are invalid, but that the system isnt working in a way that lives up to them, and things can be better. Its a aspirational argument to honor modenlrn values. The factory is providing a product that deviates from spec. Looks modern to me. The video uses this as a critique of modernism, and while Dr. King is criticizing society, the criticism is that society isnt succeeding in its aspirations to meet that modern standard. The intention is the illustrate a critique of modernism, but uses something that targets an implementation rather than the aims. The clip actually endorses those aims and deems them desirable for all. I understand the utility of this sort of critique, but Im not sure it offers more than a means to alter systems rather than a better set of goals for those systems.

[@FadiAkil]

“My earlier argument that postmodernism is a deteriorated version of the Enlightenment is entirely compatible with the present assertion that postmodernism explicitly rejects the Enlightenment because of theoretical extremism. Postmodernism is the Enlightenment [i.e. modernity] gone mad. In human affairs, madness takes the role of contradiction in logic; anything follows. One consequence of the madness of theoretical extremism is that an ostensible repudiation of Platonism is itself a version of Platonism, that is, of Platonism as it is, not as it is imagined to be.” ― Stanley Rosen.

[@zolarczakl6815]

The biggest problem I have with postmodernity is that it's cynicism makes it hypocritical in that it skews the other way- where modernity obviously favoured the "straight, white, wealthy" demographic, postmodernism actively discriminates against these people in an effort to "balance the scales" rather than trying to bring everyone up to that level. Increasing amounts of people are skeptical of the newer ideas of equity and social justice, and these people are being vilified by the "old guard" postmodernists, but I think (hope) we will move further towards genuine ideas of life, liberty and pursuit of happiness as these are very noble things which we shouldn't abandon with the hasty, detestable cynicism and nihilism thay has been fostered within postmodern schools of thought.

[@bigredracingdog466]

I don't agree with your first paragraph. One's success in life is not dependent upon one's ethnicity, gender, or sexual orientation, but on one's values and work ethic. There are women, gay men, and people of all ethnicities who are successful because they did what they needed to do to be successful. If I am more successful than my black neighbor, it's not because I or white society deprived him of the means or opportunity to also be successful. In actual fact, my black neighbor is more successful than me because he has a PhD. in Biology while I have an MEd. He works two jobs as an adjunct professor and for our county's agricultural extension, while I take my summers off recovering from another year of eighth graders. I agree fully with your second paragraph.

[@kevinmatthews9064]

But the postmodernism taken to its axiom… it leads towards “criticism in order to do what?” I am not seeing the end, where postmodernism leads to the next modernism. In early Chinese times, Confucius was similar to today’s modernism and Lao Tzu was postmodernism. While Lao Tzu was important, my main question was “to what end?” Perhaps it is my modernist viewpoint, but I don’t see postmodernism as anything much beyond criticism of modern philosophy.

[@danhanqvist4237]

The "vs." is quite clear. Its "finding things out vs. just making stuff up".

[@kylebowles9820]

I came here for an unbiased overview of this, so far it checks out pretty good

[@Mosaic631]

Yes! Love the subject matter. Fascinating times we’re living in. Can’t wait for the next vid.

[@TheLivingPhilosophy]

Thanks Mosaic!

[@satnamo]

Our age is not an age that wants heroes because ours is an age of envy since envy is ignorance

[@citycrusher9308]

@@TheLivingPhilosophy @5:40 - you are spreading false propaganda. W men were not ostrocized from the work place. They simply never wanted to be apart of it. This is why there are housewife leeches even today

[@citycrusher9308]

@@TheLivingPhilosophy I downvoted because of your lie at 5:40

[@jose.montojah]

it's _M E T A M O D E R N_ time!

[@raisingtheconch6730]

Truly impressed by your knowledge, delivery, technical editing, flow and grasp of events. Thank you.

[@TheLivingPhilosophy]

Thank you very much!!

[@AlexanderAndreev1]

Thank you so much for such a compelling explanation of these confusing and uneasy to formulate and describe topics ! I wonder if you can further explain one aspect that I haven't fully understood : Modernism - ideology, end of slavery , women's rights . Postmodernism - end of big ideology (big narrative ) but also an attempt to continue fight for the minority rights including a broader spectrum of them? Is it fair enough to say that postmodernism was also concerned about"fighting for the rights " as modernism did , but with a different attitude , having no hopes in bright future whatsoever? (Basically, I was a bit confused with this: if you claim that PM was everything that M wasn't, why does it still has this tendency of equality and fight for the rights?)

[@jacobblumin4260]

Excellent. Very clear. Great intro to this subject. Thanks.

[@chrismcclary108]

This is excellent. Thank you for this analysis

[@satnamo]

Das road to hell is paved with good intentions because ignorance is even more dangerous than evil intentions. Nothing is more precious than Independent Freedom Happiness is impossible because happiness is das absent of happiness since there is no happiness higher than rest. Break the flower tipped arrows of Mara and death will never touch me again. Painful is birth; Painful is death; Painful is birth and death over and over again. He who crosses over to the other shore becomes arhat; Other people run up and down on this shore from death to death.

[@xbuzzkingx]

Thanks for making these philosophical concepts so easy to understand. Your voice and cadence is quite calming, which makes the info easy to absorb.

[@TheLivingPhilosophy]

Ah thank you very much! I was deliberately working with this video on going at a gentler pace so it's great to hear you say that!

[@satnamo]

Pleasant speech is das highest blessing

[@robertfranklin8704]

As a lover of the Great Romanticists from Blake through to Yeats to Tolkien and Kathleen Raine, I don't know which I loath most: Modernism, or Post- Modernism!

[@mudpuddle7527]

amazing video, very concise and on-point. Fabulous hair btw.

[@Identity1111]

Beautifully articulated as always!

[@TheLivingPhilosophy]

Thanks Faraz!

[@satnamo]

Mankind looks up to him who is thus gifted for disclosures about nature of things and his own nature. A man’s nature is in harmony with itself when he desires to be nothing but what he is. What a man is is nothing but the manifestation of his will is in fact what he wills

[@alanreiser5558]

So many get so much of postmodernism wrong, mostly by asserting it to be something it most definitely is not (Jordan Peterson)…you got it right. Thank you for the clarity.

[@christopherdainton4224]

Good video. My criticism here would be that postmodernism doesn't really "fight for" anyone or anything. For that, you might be referring to critical theory, which is inherently political. Postmodernism if mostly just defined by a suspicion of universals and metanarratives, whatever they may be. In that way, it can be left wing as easily as right wing, as long as it has the right amount of scorn for any truth that isn't merely context dependent.

[@herbiewalkermusic]

What a great video! Thank you 😊

[@JDG-hq8gy]

Metamodernism: - A synthesis of postmodernism and modernism - It believes that we can progress and that we can find the truth and the best way to live, while still retaining the skepticism towards totalising answers - This skepticism is a result of openness to ideas, which has made accepting an idea as true seem less plausible as there are more idea that now must be false for it to be true as well evidence that contradicts it.

[@siyaindagulag.]

Refreshing to hear the term, post-modernity in the past tense.

[@quasimandias]

Really nicely said. But I would add that for those who coined the words of liberty and fraternity were also those deeply suspicious of whether the state could support it. They tried. The answer is no.

[@fee3437]

I absolutely love your channel and the work you do, but I have but one request; if you could put a list of book references that helped you understand and shape such topics into these educative videos :) It would be very nice to have access to your reading guide for all the topics you discuss and deepen the horizon of understanding them.

[@nouhaait6021]

Brilliant idea, I would love that too!

[@MrJDOaktown]

Michel Foucault identifies a # of traits of Modernity including: • A Questioning or rejection of tradition • The prioritizing of Individualism, Freedom, & Formal Equality • Faith in Inevitable Social, Scientific, & Technological progress • A movement from Feudalism toward Capitalism & the market economy. • Industrialization & Urbanization, • Secularization • The development of the Nation-State, representative democracy, and public education.

[@wolfofthewilds]

good video, but it would interesting to hear your perspectives on the failures of post modernism and potential failures of the "metaverse." Failures include the breakdown of the family, drug overdoses, and the deference to corrupt corporations such as nike that enslave thousands.

[@TheLivingPhilosophy]

You make good points. But to what extent are these problems that postmodernity is seeking to ameliorate rather than being at cause for? At least that's what comes to mind with the Nike element. That seems more to do wtih the late stage capitalism so despised by postmodernists rather than something cause by them. One the other hand it would be interesting to explore the breakdown of the family and the problems with addiction because I think that this is more closely related to postmodernity. Nietzsche's God is Dead piece comes to mind because it is the void of nihilism that was the opening shot of postmodernity and it is in many ways the eternal problem of postmodernity - how do we find meaning in a world that has none (no objective meaning that is). Might be worthy of its own video Zack you're right

[@satnamo]

@@TheLivingPhilosophy the way to bring meaning into my life is to devote myself to loving others and to be of service to communities and people that I love; and to create something of beauty and value with love.

[@TheLivingPhilosophy]

@@satnamo 100%

[@ChaBoi777]

@@TheLivingPhilosophy so we blame modernity for inequities and inequality but we can't blame post-modernism for the consequences of uprooting traditional values. Critical difference being that modernity actually sought to (and succeeded in) solving inequalities where as post-modernism actually seeks to uproot tradition. So blame modernity for a problem it didnt create and actually solved but advert responsibility from post modernism for the consequences of a goal they actually sought out to accomplish? I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt because I'm still working through a chunk of your videos and say that what I'm perceiving as appologism is merely a typical philosophical engagement, and you don't necessarily hold that opinion. But my instincts tell me that you are in fact a postmodernist or at least your views are adjacent to it.

[@raifu_chan]

@@ChaBoi777 would you be so kind as to give examples to these traditional values postmodernism is uprooting so that some people including me can understand better?

[@adamslowikowski3085]

Thank you for making this video showing the important difference between modernism and postmodernism, showing Albert Einstein as a representative of modernist thought. I find it interesting that the late Lyndon Larouche championed the modern scientific thinking of Einstein and Planck, who he thought were rationalist in orientation, as opposed to postmodernism, which he characterized as irrationalist. He thought that Anglo American oligarchical elites were promoting postmodernism in order to destabilize American society, thus preventing any possibility of reviving the Hamiltonian economic system and reforming the financial system. 🙂🌞🌻💛🙏

[@TheGrigoryev]

Thank you for what you’re doing! Highly appreciated! You’re progressing human development by creating these videos!

[@TheLivingPhilosophy]

Ah thanks a million Arturs I really appreciate that!

[@horace577]

"Metamodernisn" and the new "Metaverse" it's all going to be so wonderful . I just know it .

[@TheLivingPhilosophy]

Haha I know right! Exciting times eh!!

[@satnamo]

Without knowledge There is no meditation because Without meditation There is no knowledge; He who has knowledge and meditation is near unto nirvana- that blessed state of heavenly calm obtained by expiation.

[@ryanhoffman5477]

He forgot to tell you that the postmodernist philosophers were pedophiles. Postmodernism side effects are a paralogic feedback loop that degenerates a hierarchy into chaos. Carl Jung's psychology is a much better philosophy to sort out reality.

[@DD-cz9vb]

New favorite channel, thank you so much.

[@TheLivingPhilosophy]

Ah awesome DD thank you!

[@kevinrombouts3027]

Fascinating analysis.

[@NHHwng]

Do you have any published works on this topic that I can use as reference material in my doctoral research?

[@TheLivingPhilosophy]

I would recommend Hanzi Freinacht's "The Listening Society" where I'm pretty sure he goes in depth on all this. There's also Ken Wilber's work either A Theory of Everything or A Brief History of Everything where he also goes into this through the lens of a developmental model called spiral dynamics

[@justanotherhuumon]

Very interesting video. Thank you.

[@russellsilver7385]

Very well done. Plus, your accent lends to the meta-ambiance. As a grad student in the 1990s, and someone sympathetic to modernity, I was very put off by the esoteric language of post modernism. And I STILL feel that way. I've read and understood Kant, Kierkegaard, and Heidegger, but Foucault and Derrida both lost me near page 5 or 6. Other folks who seemed starstruck by these post-modern big shots universally shied from my questions. You've given an "upshot" account of post-modernism, but is that all there is? Either there's much left to be said, or Foucault talked on and on to say what you have in 5 minutes.

[@hybridmoments82]

There's no consensus among Postmodernists like Foucault of what Postmodernism even is. Ask 10 intellectuals to define Postmodernism and you'll get 10 completely separate and unique responses. It seems the only consensus among Postmodernists is a scathing critique of rationalism with no counterpoint. What I find most interesting is that while Postmodernists reject rationalism, they seem to employ it over and over again as their go-to means of attempting to define their own concept.

[@Chiefmucka]

@@hybridmoments82 it's hard to describe the outside of the box you live within.

[@hybridmoments82]

@@Chiefmucka You're welcome to call what I live in a "box" if you're capable of describing that box or what's outside of it, but you won't, because you can't, because Postmodernism is wholly and exclusively subjective. It doesn't change, redefine or add anything of value to objectivity whatsoever. It's a nice little religion.

[@torshavnnewell]

​@@hybridmoments82 well said

[@LeeRedfieldmusic]

A very thoughtful presentation.

[@boc413]

Having no philosophical background myself, I find your videos really informative. Re. your point at about 7.15 that the balance of power had shifted, but remained in the same demographic profile, is it not true that the transition from monarchs/aristocrats to tycoons/bankers is a change of caste and perhaps ethnicity?

[@TheLivingPhilosophy]

Thanks boc! Much appreciated. I would definitely agree that the caste had changed but I would challenge the claim about the ethnicity being changed. Seems to me that it was the same demographics no? Unless I'm overlooking something. Be curious to hear what's coming to your mind

[@Laotzu.Goldbug]

Oy. Vey.

[@ryanhoffman5477]

He forgot to point out that the main philosophers of Postmodernism are pedophiles. Postmodernism side effects are disturbing and causes healthy hierarchies to degenerate into chaos.

[@zorropacifista]

A small addition: Tractatus’ Wittgenstein said that he had solved all problems of philosophy and yet little had been advanced with it, because of the most important things of ethics and meaning of life nothing could be said

[@Brehvon]

Sounds like, perhaps, metamodernity is the great Order/Chaos balance humanity has been waiting for. We drug ourselves out of chaos, into order, and now there is too much. Gotta have more emotion connected to our outlooks in these regards. Otherwise, we risk leaving part of our humanity at the door if not already.

[@TheLivingPhilosophy]

Oooh love that Brehvon. The whole thing with metamodernism as we'll see is that it's all about an oscillation so I think you are sensing something quite accurate there. Curious to hear your thoughts on next week's video!

[@satnamo]

Man is his own star

[@yqafree]

So much honesty and dare I say so much accuracy at that. Thank you brother! ... ... Metamodernity ... ....

[@TheLivingPhilosophy]

Thanks Apologist!

[@friasgonza]

very goob! nice job with this video

[@kevinmatthews9064]

By the way, ABSOLUTELY great videos!

[@TheLivingPhilosophy]

Thanks Kevin!

[@Elintasokas]

Very concise. Great stuff.

[@TheLivingPhilosophy]

Thanks a million Multihog!

[@jairofonseca1597]

Thanks, very good explanation.

[@test17email84]

Alternate title : A postmodernist trying to explain 'Modernism vs. Postmodernism'. And for people who wanted to know what Modernism and Postmodernism is, let me explain what 10:46 mins of couldn't : Modernism : Objectivity Postmodernism : Subjectivity

[@TheWiredFriend220]

This is the best explainer video, about anything, I've ever seen. Please keep up the work on Metamodernism. 🤘🏽🤘🏽

[@TheLivingPhilosophy]

Hahaha thank you. Hard to top that

[@michaelstueben2880]

Terrifically enlightening!

[@osutasharon4223]

Very good explanation so easy to understand

[@popbasketball1696]

From my understanding, Modernity is more of a late 1800 and early 1900 concept. The Enlightenment, Founding Fathers, and early 1800 men were definitely different in art, politics, philosophy, science, religion, and culturally then those in the Progressive Era, Age of Imperialism, Laissez-faire Capitalism, and early 1900 men. I think that the French philosophers to clump an entire century together can be damaging. I do agree that Postmodernity is around the sixties, however, I think, from my understanding of American history and my understanding of European history, making Modernity stretch all the way to the days of the Enlightenment is a bit of a stretch. Nonetheless, what we are looking at is the basic philosophy of Modernity and Postmodernity, which I thank you for explaining.

[@maxpercer7119]

love your videos.

[@dlloydy5356]

Really interesting. I really enjoy your subject matter in particular the ‘lesser known schools’..... well lesser known to me! Great work.

[@TheLivingPhilosophy]

Glad you enjoyed it Danny thank you!

[@satnamo]

Great men confided themselves childlike to genius of their age.

[@frankshifreen]

Great synthesis- thanks- I also see how space travel, science fiction, and other modernist narratives died on the vine in the 1970’s

[@AkaAkahige]

uh, i'm not sure what you're saying, science fiction seems to be quite alive and well.

[@evarobarts8166]

love this

[@RacyCalder]

Thanks!

[@JFBassett2050]

Ah yes; out with "Grand Narratives" . . . unless the Grand Narrative is "MetaModernism."

[@jeffreyforeman5031]

great presentation

[@deebaker9199]

I just just found your channel ...what gold! I listen to any such I can get ears to every night for 2 years now...( I'm an alcoholic living 2+ years serene in a 12 step program..after 35 years of doom n fear 🥳 So fabulous your voice, love your accent it's so soothing, like listening to a great poet. Bliss. Could you do something on William James? Haha, sorry... very rude to ask I know! Thankyou so much, true delight! 🥰🤗

[@TheLivingPhilosophy]

Ah no way Dee! Delighted to hear you're enjoying the channel! Bit of learning every night sounds like a great healthy habit to cultivate I could with some of that myself! As for William James that's a great recomendation I've always been intrigued by pragmatism and have been wanting to get into his stuff on religious experiences as well so the recommendation is very welcome!

[@deebaker9199]

@@TheLivingPhilosophy oh wow, can't believe you replied! Thanks so much. Yes, I'm lit in the pointings of nietzche, emerson, schopenhauer...and currently William James as he appears intrinsic so to speak in the development of 12 step but being alcoholic/addict 35 years has...well... damaged cognition in my brain 😬 I'm unable to get much from reading his actual writings...would love to hear your perspective on pragmatism. What delight! Thanks so much, very Greatful for your reply too! 😁😇🥳

[@TheLivingPhilosophy]

@@deebaker9199 Haha not at all I appreciate good feedback and recommendations. I hadn't heard of James's role in the 12 step program so that's another reason to investigate him!

[@deebaker9199]

@@TheLivingPhilosophy ....well it's quite shrouded lol...but the story has it that Dr Jung may have been influenced by William James book 'varieties of religious experience' and in the text of the 12 steps Dr Jung is mentioned as having proposed the idea to an alcoholic he had worked with that the only solution to transcending the disease may be to undertake a conversion or 'spiritual experience' 🥰 William James was brother of Henry James writer and had alcoholism suffering in his family (again reportedly)...these are just my findings but may not be accurate..the main precept for my own recovery is that the Steps are 'spiritual' in nature and not necessarily dependant on a 'religious' experience (if ya know what I mean?) and I extracted that for myself from my limited studies of pragmatic approach and therefore the work of William James Haha, phew! I feel very hesitant to hypothesize about the history of the steps ...people get very disgruntled if beliefs are rattled of course...just sharing that the Steps themselves wherever they originate lol have launched me to realms of freedom, hope n a peacefulness I never dreamt existed prior to recovery 😁🤪🥳💖

[@TheLivingPhilosophy]

@@deebaker9199 Ah very interesting. I hadn't heard that bit about Jung being influenced by James. Now that is a very interesting possibilty to explore. I'd love to hear what Jung had to say about James. It really is amazing to hear of the positive effect of the steps. Amazing little bit of work whatever the history of it is

[@jamesalexander958]

Great video. Only thing about saying the French Enlightenment being the groundwork for modernity, is those like John Locke and others really did the ground work too, right?

[@TheLivingPhilosophy]

Very true

[@utopianbuddha6346]

Love it!!!!!

[@JockStud]

gr8 info

[@bigredracingdog466]

Modernism did not fail. It's fundamental tenets are reason, knowledge, education and progress. It gave us classical liberalism with Natural law & rights, Individual worth, Private property, Consent of the governed (suffrage), and Limited government (no plenary powers). The failures of Communism, Fascism, and other injustices of the past century weren't due to Modernism itself, but the failure to adhere to those fundamental tenets of classical liberalism. Blaming the tragedies of the 20th century on Modernism is a straw man argument.

[@rickkase6438]

Interests thoughts u got there .. I love ur work! ur a new voice in my feed in recent months and I trust ur will and aim; and u come from a real unique place not many come from tht I fantastically share with u. This vid tho, u told "the narrative of the history of modernity and post modernity from the perspective of postmodernity" as "the history of modernity and postmodernity"; a most-postmodern critique from an invariably pro-modern perspective ofc. To be frank, I couldn't hear your interesting thoughts or judge the soundness of your thesises due to apparently falsity (perhaps through overstating .. ) in your premises and narrative buildup. The point where I paused was ur saying, "to claim that Black Americans were, in the 1950s and 60s second class citizens, would be laughable." .... No it wouldn't. That's the definition of what they were. Second-class citizens. Confined to tht time period .. no that's exactly what they were-like-that was the problem of the time period: "we hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal"-istan had a population of citizens that were not equal to the rest (de facto second class) in the eyes of the state (little complicated cause even then "officially in the eyes of the state" pleasy v. Furgeson-"seperate by equal" was law of land since 1896 but we all know the shenanigans) and a society tht, in various traditional ways, embodied "white is superior to black". That was the problem. So u saying "black=second class citizen" in 50s-60s America is laughable, was laughable. I don't know u just overstate several cases to much and, without explicitly lying to us or even urself I imagine (I do bet ur honest and have lent u some trust of mine), u paint a picture that is inherently untrue with ur words; almost a picture in the negative. Take the difference between now and then and see the slope, then exaggerate the slope from the viewpoint of the peak, ignore all the up trajectory to the slope startpoint, and distort the baseline of "normal" by which we're meant to judge the slope start (move it up to heaven as opposed to where it was amongst the people's and places of Earth). Anyway, I think that's where this vid went way off the rails for me. Now if u excuse me, I'ma try and watch again to get at those interesting thoughts 😉

[@rickkase6438]

I find 2 things fascinating here: 1) u ignored the British influence on modernity and post-modernity 2) u equate American and French enlightenment as the same thing and call it the "promise of modernity" in "the long 19th century". "Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness" is very different from "Liberté, égalité, fraternité" as: 1) The Americans were fundamentally Britishmen (circa 1763 practically totally-so) who imported French thought on top of wht they had; and they curated heavily their imports and debated incessantly over how to fit it all fit together - over wht I tend to think of as a 13 year long (1776-1789) drafting process for the 4,543 words that would be the bedrock of this new state they were all envisioning. 2) the French didn't borrow much from the British. They largely took what they saw as the best of their philosophy, athestics, and ideals and contrasted it with the worst of their society and government and tried to use the former to remake the latter in one foul swoop. ... U get a lot wrong with that missing ingredient of modernity: Hobbes, Locke, Stuart Mill, Adam Smith, Francis Bacon, etc. And in ur conflation of American and French enlightenment. ... But honestly tht second one isn't even ur fault, America and France always get conflated into the broader West : it's like France and US are the broader East and West Legs of .. "The West" I tend to divide the World between "The Old World" and "The New World" first; much more fundamental, at least through my eyes 👀

[@Jimmylad.]

These vids are amazing

[@TheLivingPhilosophy]

Thanks jimmylad!

[@satnamo]

You must court him because he does not court you because infancy conforms to nobody.

[@Jimmylad.]

@@satnamo huh??? I don’t get it

[@mudassrazainab8440]

Needing material on the aims of education by O Conor.

[@joserivera8429]

Here because of Ruslan KD presenting this video.

[@hybridmoments82]

Please name 1 single issue depicted in your video where modernism has failed and postmodernism succeeded. You mentioned very vaguely that somehow Postmodernism has somehow achieved what Moderism couldn't, but fail to provide details. Are women now equal to men in society? What benefit did Postmodernism provide for black people? Are the children of Vietnam now safe from side effects of agent orange? What exactly are Postmodernism's list of achievements aside from creating intellectual bile whose own intellectuals seem to fail at consensus?

[@DonnaSnyder]

Great job

[@TheLivingPhilosophy]

Thanks Donna

[@obamaibnbahish5680]

This video should be a default watch for anyone, anyone period.

[@mohamedasifshawmr1849]

You clearly explained and sharply differentiated both the concepts.

[@TheLivingPhilosophy]

Thanks Mohamed!! That's music to my ears!

[@satnamo]

Das easiest way to get into a meditative state is by listening- Let my ears hear what ever they want to hear, But without naming!

[@brianmusial8713]

Just found your channel, this is fire. I am def gonna watch more of your vids, ty for this!

[@TheLivingPhilosophy]

Haha thanks a million Brian glad you're enjoying it so far!

[@indiesci-ficritic5044]

You claim in this video that Post Modernism asserts that, "the dream of modernity was dead" and, Post Modernism "was [is, since the philosophy is still being practiced, largely, by present-day academicians] fulfilling the dreams of its predecessor." To this, I have two queries. 1) How is it possible that Modernism failed when the philosophy never charges itself to terminate? Specifically, Modernism acknowledges that it is an ongoing process with ideals, not any set specific goal. 2) Please cite examples where the application of Post Modern philosophy has in practice succeeded in ANY of the goals stated at the end of the video. Especially knowing that Post Modernism was not the impetus, for example, in driving the United States' Civil Rights Movement.

[@pandittroublejr]

Thank you...💕💕

[@TheLivingPhilosophy]

My pleasure Pandit!

[@konstantinrebrov675]

I am not Modern, I am Ancient, the philosophies of Plato, Socrates, Confucius, Lao Tzu.

[@matthewgabbard6415]

The fact that society isn’t ready to live up to an idea at a particular time does not mean that idea is false or an unworthy endeavor. In fact Jefferson and the other Founders knew all too well that slavery was wrong, however they also knew that the Southern colonies would never join the cause of Revolution if slavery was prohibited at that time. It was the central theme that overshadowed everything in the development of the United States until it finally came to a head in 1861

[@Postlong2]

I am interested where you are going here. Will stay tuned.

[@satnamo]

The adventure of life is to learn what I find interesting and remember what matters to me. To me, Fighting means conquering my self because the most difficult fight is the fight against my self since I am my greatest enemy

[@gregoryjones7712]

0:38 what is that art piece ??

[@TheLivingPhilosophy]

It's one of Hilma af Klint's Svanen series you can see the original of that one here Gregory commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Hilma_af_Klint_-_1914_-_Svanen.jpg

[@santerisatama5409]

Main influence of Lyotard's 'Postmodern condition' (which introduced the term into philosophy) is *late* Wittgenstein and his cricicism of philosophically empty language games. In retrospect, Wittgenstein's main contribution is in the field of philosophy of mathematics, with his 'beginners mind' approach and critcism of Cantor-Hilbert paradigm known as 'formalism, which was and remains the main issue of the foundational crisis of mathematics'. In retrospect we can see that the first "postmodernists" in the negative sense that Lyotard criticizes are Cantor, Hilbert, Zermelo etc. developers of what became the axiomatic set theories, arbitrary language games starting from arbitrary "axioms" that are foundationally counter-intuitive, anti-empirical and I dare say even absurd, and in that sense post-truth mathematics of the "Linguistic turn".

[@TheLivingPhilosophy]

That's fascinating! I wasn't aware that Lyotard was so influenced by Wittgenstein I am planning on reading more of him as part of the video on what postmodernism is so hopefully I'll learn more about it at that point

[@santerisatama5409]

@@TheLivingPhilosophy Yeah, the big story of (end of) modernism involves Russel and Whitehead and faiilure of Principia Mathematica through Gödel, Russel's pupil and "successor" Wittgenstein giving birth to Postmodern criticism. In this grand narrative of break down of modernist math and logic, Whitehead could be considered the Metamodern philosopher. :) As for physicalism going post/metamodern, worth noting also that with 'Relational Quantum Mechanics, Rovelli goes back to Nagarjuna (who was the Gödel of classical cultures).

[@TheLivingPhilosophy]

@@santerisatama5409 Haha! I love the description of Nagarjuna as the Godel of classical cultures that's great. Funny you should say that about Whitehead since he was a big influence on Wilber and so in turn on Hanzi Freinacht's metamodernism

[@JDG-hq8gy]

Modernity was also a characterised by confidence in the legitimacy and possibility of a holistic answer for how society worked, for example it was marked by people adopting the entirety of an ideology, like Marxism or Freudianism, and thinking that this ideology could answer all questions. E.g. All psychiatric disorders are caused by repressing sexual memories, thoughts or desires, all conflict is class conflict, etc.

[@WeaponizedGoochsweat]

Referring Freudian points of view was not something I expected to see here.

[@mic_at_nite]

Marxists cant be postmodernists lol, thats a very Jordan Peterson thing to think and say lol.

[@kernel1kadafi]

Can you do a video on late modernity and autonomy

[@TheLivingPhilosophy]

Late modernity is something floating around that I'd like to dive into. I'll put it on the list!

[@frankv7774]

In 1986 while working at a Tire plant in Akron Ohio, a coworker was crushed by a 2 ton roll of steel belt. My Union Steward told me "There are people who make things happen, those who watch things happen and those who say what the F@ck just happen" Anton "All Weather" Vukovic 1930-1986 RIP

[@OneConsciousnessWithAaron]

Once again, excellent. I like how you worked in paradigm matrix without mentioning it explicitly in reference to modernity and post modernity. Looking forward to your follow up. Meta modernity is still an opaque concept, but you did make clear that it builds on or encompasses modernity and post modernity, jettisoning those bits deemed useless or harmful. When are we going to establish a council of elders, seers, with whom we can take counsel? A Jedi Council of sorts if you will. A global entity of wisdom for this global village now emerging.

[@TheLivingPhilosophy]

Haha that's a fun thought! Of course those Jedi would need special powers otherwise we'd just be looking at another Catholic Church. I do like the idea of a council of sages though but then as a lover of philosophy I would!

[@santerisatama5409]

First Nations of Turtle Island do have a decentralized network of Elders, a radical step of evelotion of shamanhood from the Siberian form of individuated shaman.

[@rbwinn3]

Here is where it went off the rails. I identified this when I was in high school. Our physics teacher was explaining Einstein's Special Theory of Relativity to us. He said that a moving clock would be slower than a clock that was not moving. For the moving clock I visualized a clock in a flying airplane, and for the clock that was not moving, a clock on the ground. It was obvious to me that if the clock in the airplane was slower, the pilot of the airplane would get a faster speed for the airplane than an observer on the ground would get using the clock on the ground to time the flight of the airplane. Then I read Einstein's book on the subject and was surprised to learn that Einstein was using equations that showed that the pilot of the airplane and the observer on the ground would get the same speed for the airplane. But, whatever Einstein did, reality still exists. If the clock in the airplane is slower, the pilot will get a faster speed for the airplane. Einstein turned science into a cult based on a miraculous concept. This does not mean that there cannot be one speed for the airplane. Newton only had one speed for the airplane, but he theorized that the two clocks were showing the same time. The way Newton would have resolved the problem of a slower clock would have been to convert the time of one clock to the other, saying that there was a preferred time for the system. What scientists have done since the time of Einstein is to say that a second of time is the building block of the universe, and that a certain number of oscillations of a cesium isotope atom will contract distances, curve space, and otherwise distort reality to conform to the idea that time controls all other parameters of physics because scientists have defined time according to atomic events, and as long as atomic events show different rates of time, they have to be reconciled by distorting reality.

[@stevenperezhenriquez1332]

Quite ironical that Foucault always rejected any labels and also being called a post modernist, but his regarded nowadays as a post modernist.

[@Motorlizard]

Great editing! Very interesting topic.

[@TheLivingPhilosophy]

Cheers Bill!! I tried out a couple of new tricks in this one so I really appreciate your noticing

[@satnamo]

Simple is beautiful because simplicity is das ultimate form of sophistication

[@davidbuchanan1484]

As I understand it, Modernity is presently under attack from both sides, from both premodern and postmodern attitudes. Tough place to be.

[@30sandrita1]

Yes, I needed this. Thank you very much! ❤️🥰🙋

[@TheLivingPhilosophy]

Glad it was helpful Sandra!

[@EugenTemba]

I think Postmodernism has good aims, but went about it the wrong way, simply destroying systems isn't enough.

[@bigredracingdog466]

I don't agree that it had "good aims," nor do I think it "went about it the wrong way." There is no "way" postulated by PM. It is a failure because it is not prescriptive; it offers nothing coherent in place of Modernism.

[@theleastaction]

Well done. Except Einsteins papers on relativity were published in the early 20th century, not 19th as stated.

[@dothex4919]

Excellent work! So in summary, postmodernity is post common sense. Hopefully folks like Jordan Peterson, Joe Rogan and Richard Heart can get out of this unhealthy societal rut.

[@bubbaliburtee8657]

You forgot to mention the post modernists obsession with "eliminating the age of consent down to and including for infants".

[@PMKehoe]

If Foucault is your definitional guide… 😮 whooo… then bias proceeds your analysis…

[@itchyhope.6782]

The first glimpse of judgement.