Explaining the Pioneer Banlist - The First Bans - Part 1

In this series, we go over the banlists and explain why cards are banned and if the cards on the banlist could come off the banlist. This time we’ll be taking a look at the newest competitive paper format, pioneer, which includes every standard set after Return to Ravnica. This leaves the format in a powerful state, but much weaker than Modern or Legacy, leaving it with one of the most unique banlists we’ve seen so far.
Script by Pumkinswift
Editing by Pumkinswift
├ The List
Intro: (0:00)
The Fetchlands: (0:20)
Felidar Guardian: (5:31)
Leyline of Abundance: (9:00)
Veil of Summer: (13:01)
Field of the Dead: (16:24)
Once Upon a Time: (19:45)
#mtg #tcg #magicthegathering
(Just a note, we have people who actually know the game very well making the scripts for this channel. As the owner of the channel (Theduellogs/hirumaredx) is a total newbie to the game.)

[@oldpoetmen]

This episode feels like a time capsule to when WotC was pushing the ever-loving fuck out of Green Still crazy to me that Green got what is, essentially, one of the best counter spells ever printed in Veil of Summer

[@Tinil0]

Green could kinda use some ever-loving fuck pushing right now again...

[@fernandobanda5734]

I can see how they got there. Every time we got an enemy hate cycle, the green one was terrible. Karplusan Strider, Filigree Fracture, Mold Adder.. They all sucked. Even Autumn's Veil (basically the same without the cantrip) nobody played. So they must've thought just a little push would make Veil the staple enemy color hate like Celestial Purge. Turns out, adding "Draw a card" is quite the upgrade.

[@Faithful_Solaire]

I haven’t played in 20ish years. Not sure how you ended up in my recommendations but I really like the videos even though I have no idea what a planswalker is and haven’t ever seen 95% of the cards here. Keep making great videos 👍🏼

[@MarioJPC]

The more recent felidar cards effects are more restricted or return at the end of the turn, that helps to avoid problems. And it's coming a new Leyline cycle on Duskmore, I can imagine that it would be more fair, maybe it would be related to just one green thing, or mana or +1/+1 counters.

[@bobzour]

Most blink creatures return whatever they blink at EoT, while it's much more common for blink spells to return immediately. IIRC when Felidar was printed it was the only modern legal creature (maybe only creature) that would return immediately.

[@Metallicity]

I think Field of the Dead actually has a more straightforward fix. If it can't trigger if you control *any* lands that share a name, then you don't get into the situation of "search up two more Fields, make six Zombies, play and crack a fetch, make six more Zombies...". Turning all land drops into individual Zombies is still very strong in the late game, but the really broken part was having 2-3 Fields stacked up together so that you'd be able to present a lethal amount of Zombies every single turn, even through multiple wraths or any amount of spot removal. It also has the more subtle nerf of pressuring you to play a (nearly) singleton manabase, even more so than the original design.

[@cuttlefish6839]

It could honestly just come back into pioneer without much of an issue. It's ban from pioneer occurred during the time period where they were just banning a bunch of cards and not letting the game develop counterplay. It's what got us into combo hell because they didn't actually deal with the problem cards. Besides we have some pretty fast decks in pioneer and no good land payoff for lands

[@Metallicity]

@@cuttlefish6839 Field competed with Oko in Standard. And won. It's true that Pioneer has a banning spree just as it was starting out and trying to shape its banlist going forward, but this was worsened by the fact that *Magic* was having a banning spree at that time, and Field was only one of several cards printed that year which had to be banned into the dirt (i.e., in Standard, Pioneer, and Modern). This wasn't some power level hit like Oath of Nissa or even Leyline, this was the essential card to a deck that ruined multiple formats just by existing. Even if a meta specifically filled with combo decks might be especially suited to try to beat it, an unban basically means ensuring Pioneer will continue to look like that going forward, because any deck that doesn't plan to end the game by turn ~4 doesn't have a plan that beats Field of the Dead.

[@WordoftheElderGods]

Or make Field of the Dead a legendary land

[@cuttlefish6839]

@@Metallicitythat last paragraph is pure fallacy. We had a format that was pioneer lite in historic before its death that still had FotD legal well after the fact and fotd itself wasn’t an issue in fact what got it banned was a deck that ran 1 copy but also ran uro wilderness reclamation and nexus of fate. All cards that not only eventually got banned from this format but also from pioneer. The deck didn’t even win off fotd it was just a stall card. The fotd deck itself didn’t do all that much compared to other strategies in the format. Even the pioneer fotd decks didn’t do anything crazy. Pioneer is notorious for banning non issue cards that got banned in other formats. Lurrus is a great example of this as when it got banned in modern which was already questionable considering the strong strategies people outright ignored in favor of this card like RB scam. But it got banned in pioneer even though it was literally doing nothing over a bogus reason too.

[@Johngle]

@@cuttlefish6839what are you smoking lol

[@h8reset194]

Great series Bro, keep the great work :)

[@SnackCakes]

12:52 Abundances abilities. Slight slip up, took me for a loop for a second

[@thatguyintherain3168]

No fall offs in 437 views, bro seconds

[@suzikumieda2452]

I stroke I'm thinking a have.

[@MegatronTarantulas]

hell yeah a new series. love leaving these on when i go to bed

[@brendaneichler5244]

Yeah, we can argue what sets are in it that makes it different, but the Fetches had to go for Pioneer to have any identity. If it wasn't, Pioneer would just be Modern Lite

[@LunarWingCloud]

You could also balance Field of the Dead by making the creature creation cost mana. Adding "you may pay 1, if you do" would make it fine

[@Rodrigo-ly3pg]

your videos are simply awsome

[@byronsmothers8064]

An idea for FotD: have its trigger require tapping it to resolve, could slow the zombie production just enough(?)

[@florianb107]

Too much

[@7Alberto7]

Amazing

[@HispanicatthediscoMTG]

It’s always hilarious when blue black players complain about interaction

[@SnowFoxWithAGasMask]

If the interaction is as gross as veil it’s warranted. Usually it’s not.

[@cuttlefish6839]

​@@SnowFoxWithAGasMaskI think it was gross because white had like no interaction. Which is now a non issue

[@SnowFoxWithAGasMask]

@@cuttlefish6839 veil of summer is a green card, not a white one. Veil never really did anything for mono white, but it helped white when it was paired with green.

[@ellon790]

New upload 🎉

[@tesavidawnstar7737]

Actually, Amalia combo goes infinite and because neither of these cards are a "you may" trigger the ending result should be a draw.

[@Squre]

In arena the timer runs out and it becomes a loss for the Amalia player.

[@pumkinswift8263]

Amalia destroys all creatures when it hits 20 power, destroying the Wildgrowth Walker and stopping the combo.

[@tesavidawnstar7737]

​@@pumkinswift8263see now I'm confused because half of the videos I see of this combo working just end in an infinite combo draw, and the other half do exactly as you explained. I don't understand what's going on anymore.

[@pumkinswift8263]

@@tesavidawnstar7737 If you give Wildgrowth Walker indestrucible, it won't be destroyed when Amalia hits 20 power, which will create a draw loop. Some people do this to stop amalia from winning as a form of counterplay, that's why you see that happen so often.

[@marcoottina654]

How to fix "Field of the Dead"? "All Zombies you control get -1/-1." This way you are discouraged to put more copies into play UNLESS playing some anthems, which of course eats up thr deck soace and makes everything requiring more pieces all in hand / play

[@Lembo101]

This might be a dumb nit-pick and I'm not sure how to go about justifying it, but, I would rather you use card images from the standard set that the card was released in instead of the "masters" set that they were re-released in. I guess I just find myself scratching my head thinking "wait, but which set was that card released in" whenever I see the masters or horizons set symbol on a card. Maybe it's because I'm more of a standard and limited player. (Don't worry I still really like basically all of your videos)

[@Vuietnam]

pog

[@Auriorium]

This can all be fixed if wizards just banned blue.

[@christian5256]

Fellow green player spotted haha

[@Auriorium]

@@christian5256 Green, Black, Red and White. I play blue only if I have too, like my causal Ravnica decks I made or my Ravnica cube. Otherwise I avoid that colour like the plague. Green is best.

[@w1z894]

As a gruul player, one of the stompiest decks I run is mono blue Minn/Octavia and my most controlling deck is a black green Sarulf... There's so much worse than "blue" lmao

[@voluntarism335]

Veil of summer was healthy for the format, it is not a cryptic command

[@SnowFoxWithAGasMask]

Did you really just say “Well yes but actually no???” 4:03

[@Bubben246]

Well, yes, but actually no.

[@sabersaurus7018]

Why ban Felidar Guardian and not Saheeli though? To sell packs... Thanks wizards.

[@cuttlefish6839]

I die on this hill but FotD should be unbanned in pioneer.

[@Zultra2]

people play pioneer?

[@AKPhilly]

Yes? It's the only pure format now that modern is infested with UB and horizons trash.

[@DeathsjesterKMNP]

Nah, Veil was banned just because Wotc couldn't allow green to have an effective tool against control.

[@KyonV13]

It's one thing if the card just could counter a counterspell, but then it covers you AND your board with pseudoProtection from 2 whole colors AND draws a card for 1 singular mana compared to a potential one for one trade for 2 blue. It's absurd. If anything, by your argument, why can't the other colors also have a similar card of their own? Give the other colors a Fog and hexproof the grave as well as the other stuff from green.

[@DeathsjesterKMNP]

@@KyonV13 God forbid green get that for a turn.

[@pumkinswift8263]

@@DeathsjesterKMNP Yes. No color should have the ability to punish your opponent for even trying to interact at all.

[@antonisashitteragain6993]

Imagine playing pioneer 😂

[@AKPhilly]

Wdym? It's literally the only pure format. Everything else is infested with UB and horizons trash.

[@BenovskyGM]

Too many formats.

[@JustAChickn]

Is that a bad thing?

[@herrabanani]

Legacy is the new vintage Modern is the new legacy Pioneer is the new modern

[@murlocaggrob2192]

​@herrabanani And Vintage is Yu-Gi-Oh.

[@jeezuhskriste5759]

“I think people should have less options about how they want to play the game.”

[@SnowFoxWithAGasMask]

Are you ready for foundations??? 😂😂😂