Failed MtG Mechanics - Color Changing and Devoid

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@demonkingt 9 ай бұрын

Fairly sure devoid was a mana cost nerf while keeping eldrazi colorless. Slows down eldrazi into needing specific mana rather than "oh boy I have 20 colorless mana! Time to drop eldrazis without concern for a color!" From older sets

@Joker22593 9 ай бұрын

You're misunderstanding what Devoid is. Devoid is Not the new mana symbol. The new mana symbol can be paid for with any colorless mana, not just mana from wastes. Devoid means "This card is colorless". That's it. It has nothing to do with mana cost, other than overriding the card's color.

@demonkingt 9 ай бұрын

@@Joker22593 quote any where the words "new mana symbol" was used. Devoid gave eldrazi color while being colorless to slow down eldrazis from being pure generic/colorless mana. No where in there is anything about new mana. Maybe learn to read things properly before going off on weirdly made up info

@Mischievous_Moth 9 ай бұрын

@@Joker22593I think you might have either misread the comment or accidentally replied to the wrong one, friend.

@alexholker1309 9 ай бұрын

@@Joker22593 Literally, yes, Devoid makes a card colourless. But Devoid is not why these cards are colourless - all Eldrazi were already colourless, and were always going to continue being colourless. Devoid is why these cards have coloured mana requirements, despite coloured mana requirements not being a new mechanic.

@Jeison-Nunes 3 ай бұрын

It's for gameplay and lore reasons like I posted just now, make Eldrazi spells cost actual colored mana while retaining the lore that the Eldrazi themselves are colorless and mindless, that's all

@Blight-Knight9 9 ай бұрын

I wouldn’t say devoid is a failed mechanic. I wouldn’t be surprised if they experimented with that concept again with MH3 as we are technically getting 5 color eldrazi but also colorless. I wouldn’t be surprised if this means the deck and eldrazi as a whole in this set are loaded to the brim with Devoid cards

@Mischievous_Moth 9 ай бұрын

Honestly? I hope so. I really want to make a devoid themed commander deck, but the only available commander that really works for that at the moment is morophon.

@Blight-Knight9 9 ай бұрын

@@Mischievous_Moth what devoid does as a mechanic is that the card synergies with colorless stuff like mentioned mystic forge as even tho it has colors in its cost it’s still colorless because of devoid. Devoid cards also dodge spells such as all is dust because devoid makes them colorless.

@livedandletdie 9 ай бұрын

@@Mischievous_MothBiggest problem with Devoid in Commander is that the cards still have color identity so they're not purely colorless. They have color identity but no color, which means to play all of these devoid cards you'd still need a 5 color commander.

@santiagoteruel4145 Ай бұрын

@@livedandletdie isn't color indetity affected by devoid?

@AngelusNielson 9 ай бұрын

I wouldn't say devoid was a failure, it was a flavor win and works for the creatures it was made for. Who have not come back yet.

@Weckacore 9 ай бұрын

Gavin who made the devoid mechanic also says it wasnt good enough.

@wandererfromblindeternitie9748 9 ай бұрын

hopefully it will return in the coming WUBRG eldrazi commander deck

@AngelusNielson 9 ай бұрын

@@Weckacore And therefore he's always right? The guy was responsible for Oko as well, was he not?

@nichan008 9 ай бұрын

@@AngelusNielson If the person that designed it says it was a failure, then their design failed to meet their goals regardless if a youtube commenter liked it. You can write a story that an audiences likes for all the wrong reasons, as you failed to communicate your intended message. That's still a failure for you, no matter how many other people like it. Try to understand the other party and realize there are multiple perspectives from which people are speaking rather than continuing to assume only you are right. You can easily both be right because you're not talking about the same aspect.

@ashemabahumat4173 6 ай бұрын

Flavor-wise, it was on point. They were eating specific colored mana at that point of time, so they needed it to be cast. Mechanically, it might not have hit the right notes for the designer but I don't think that matters that much. It wasn't as much of a restriction since it wasn't on all of them, and they powered through the meta when they only needed colorless. If anything, it probably "wasn't strong enough" cuz they dropped full commitment too soon

@livedandletdie 9 ай бұрын

Devoid was a control keyword. And if you wonder why the Old Zendikar Eldrazis were Colored, that's because they weren't true Eldrazi, they were twisted versions out of already existing creatures. Broodwarden, Emrakul's Hatcher, and the rest of the OG Zendikar brood, were just Eldrazi imitations of the actual fauna on Zendikar. Created from Ula, Kozi and Emrakul's influence twisting the very mana of the plane of Zendikar. The later on Eldrazi Drones, were not pale imitations, no they were proper eldrazis at this point, still twisted imitations but only retaining the mana from which they were twisted into being from. They are completely twisted creations. The true colorless beings in all of the Eldrazi sets are truly just created from the twisted realmspace mana and later on from already mana emptied regions aka wastes. And it's not weird because Ula, Kozi and Emeria all hail from the region between planes known as the Blind Eternities a region so strange, weird and dangerous that normally you can't survive it without the planeswalker spark.

@Devedrus 9 ай бұрын

One interesting application: Color changing can be helpful in Voltron Commander for getting around protection effects. Case in point my Mutate Animar deck, able to get around a fair few pillow fort and toolbox defenses.

@TheUltimateRey 9 ай бұрын

This whole protection from colors in commander is the whole reason I use scuttlemutt! It’s a 3 mana colorless artifact creature scarecrow 2/2 and it taps for one mana of any color but it can also tap to change the color of a permanent! So useful for that and if you like to run removal that targets specific colors!

@iamfat6164 9 ай бұрын

Okay this is officially just stretching the definition of "failed mechanics" to include things that were very clearly one offs and never going to return. Devoid wasn't supposed to be anything other than making them colorless in game while still letting them have colored mana symbols. Are we gonna call every one off mechanic a "failed mechanic"?

@chrisgebben2043 9 ай бұрын

Well technically as of modern horizons 3 There's clearly I high chance devoid is coming back especially since we're getting a 5-color Eldrazi precon

@macinnes800ad 9 ай бұрын

To be fair if you're familiar with his other channel TheDuelLogs, he does cover the most desperate stuff sometimes. Idk how familiar he is with magic. Even as someone who started playing long after devoid was added I wouldn't say it was a failed mechanic - it's barely a keyword. It's like certain 0-cost cards have text written on them to say they're a certain colour and devoid is pretty much the same. I'd also argue devoid was a hugely aesthetic thing to fit the eldrazi being aliens, and devoid cards got the funky border

@iamfat6164 9 ай бұрын

@@macinnes800ad if you look at his description it clearly says he's not the one who wrote the script (and most likely it has been seen by a few people else before us), but yes it makes no sense. Failed mechanics should be mechanics that were either too weak, too difficult to design around, or just generally bad ideas. Devoid clearly was none of these and nothing more than a set mechanic whose only purpose was flavor that was never gonna return. And yes I'm familiar with duel logs, I went wtf on the penguin video for wondering how the hell that qualifies as a failed archetype when the actual problem at hand is card pool

@cax1175 9 ай бұрын

I'm glad more Eldrazi cost colorless specifically, so they can start giving them decent effects. I look forward to more cards in general costing colorless. Basically a sixth "color"

@Trogdorbad 9 ай бұрын

My only issue with Devoid is how the Commander Rules Committee has handled it - if Sphinx of the Guildpact can only be played in a 5c deck, then Devoid should apply to color identity as well.

@Joker22593 9 ай бұрын

Colorless is not a color. There isn't a way to restrict devoid cards to certain commanders without breaking the game rules.

@AB-sw4kb 9 ай бұрын

If you and your friends are fine with it, who cares? I've been playing Magic for 11 years and commander for about 4 years and never once paid attention to anything the "rules committee" has ever said.

@franslair2199 9 ай бұрын

You don't understand the difference between colors and color identity. Devoid creatures have color identity of whatever manacosts but are colorless.

@nichan008 9 ай бұрын

@@franslair2199 Except OP is specifically pointing out that Sphinx of the Guildpact breaks this logic.

@franslair2199 9 ай бұрын

@@nichan008 sphinx of the guildpact's color identity is 5c

@kdash2657 9 ай бұрын

My Morophon/Eldrazi deck works entirely on devoid. It absolutely wrecks combined with cards like Spreading Plague and Mana Maze.

@pn6923 9 ай бұрын

Ui never seen those before but have the same commander deck as my favorite Edit my power pick is faces of the past as our tribal can decide when en Eldrazi dies

@chrisgebben2043 9 ай бұрын

Yep mine can absolutely stomp as well And it's just gonna become back breaking when MH3 comes out since it's inevitable devoid comes back in the set

@Mischievous_Moth 9 ай бұрын

Honestly? I love devoid, but I just wish they'd given us a legendary 5 color devoid eldrazi so I could use that for my "colorless" eldrazi deck instead of morophon.

@chrisgebben2043 9 ай бұрын

Well.... You might want to look in the MH3 first look page and go to the bottom There's a 5-color Eldrazi precon coming

@BrassCandy 9 ай бұрын

Jodah 😈

@camoking3609 9 ай бұрын

Well your in luck

@williamdrum9899 9 ай бұрын

Funny thing is, Spiritmonger's creature type is neither Spirit nor Monger

@jettblade 9 ай бұрын

Color changing is always something that needed support but would be too powerful if it got it, so it hangs around the fringe use which is fine. I didn't really like Devoid. It was something that is so narrow that it won't ever come back unless it was a very focused set. It did have a good flavor for that set.

@mr_oger 5 ай бұрын

I think devoid could return as a mechanic if there are cards that care about deck's color from deckbuilding standpoint, something like "ETB: if your library has no cards with colors other than red do something", so it potentially can include non-red but devoid cards.

@joetrinidad7281 9 ай бұрын

I will say there are a few cards like Magical hack and Crystal Spray that I think are good examples of how Color changes effects can works as these can affect named colors but also color mana symbols too. As one who plays these and many of the other color change cards, these have been really effective at shutting down the ability of several powerful cards since you can change the color or mana symbol to something the opponent isn't playing which outside of secondary options like treasures, locks those ability down. It is limited due to the shallow card pool of these effects but effects like this can be game changers as much as any other card that can target something specific

@RobotDCLXVI 9 ай бұрын

Wizards could just print more protection from colors, Fear, etc. They don't want to, so color is pointless. The color pie has been broken by so many cards over the years, the fact that the only difference IS color is ironic considering the first fact.

@super0sonic 9 ай бұрын

Devoid wasn’t a gameplay mechanic as much as it’s a flavour mechanic. And having coloured eldrazi before this set doesn’t invalidate that argument.

@macinnes800ad 9 ай бұрын

Exactly! It's not like all cards that had devoid had their mechanics built around the 1-word keyword is it, they didn't get added or reduced mana cost for it. It was just so theyd get that funky border and synergise with other eldrazi

@ZEDEX252 9 ай бұрын

Hoping that new eldrazi commander deck from modern horizons 3 will bring devoid back into the spotlight

@XYGamingRemedyG 9 ай бұрын

It doesn't, it's just colourless. Also it released last year.

@ZEDEX252 9 ай бұрын

@@XYGamingRemedyG not that one we're getting a new one in modern horizons 3

@evanmontgomery3062 9 ай бұрын

@XYGamingRemedyG He means the modern horizons 3 Commander deck

@DerailedTrainofThought 9 ай бұрын

@@XYGamingRemedyGI think they are talking about the modern horizons 3 commander deck that is also coming out soon.

@XYGamingRemedyG 9 ай бұрын

@@DerailedTrainofThought ohh, new NEW Eldrazi deck 👀 very cool, thanks.

@ElfHostage 9 ай бұрын

What I remember liking about devoid was how it theoretically got around Mother of Runes.

@williamdrum9899 9 ай бұрын

And Iona

@kennydarmawan13 9 ай бұрын

Would a 0-cost Distorting Lens with indestructible help? And fun fact: Eldrazi Displacer is the only W card with devoid. Poor W.

@AB-sw4kb 9 ай бұрын

The limited archetypes in that set didn't have white Eldrazi support. Eldrazi were UB, BR, and UR, with BG and GU being more mechanic (aristocrats and tempo) than typal (Eldrazi).

@kennydarmawan13 9 ай бұрын

@@AB-sw4kb I see. Still, it'd be nice to see Eldrazis that cost white mana.

@AB-sw4kb 9 ай бұрын

@@kennydarmawan13 yeah it feels in flavor

@biiill5259 9 ай бұрын

Devoid isn’t really a failure. It’s a lore based solution to a balancing and design problem. Making all the cheap Eldrazi only cost generic or colorless mana would mean that any of them could slot into any deck except colorless mana is a little harder to get. There’s also the fact that the different colors of Eldrazi do have the color pie of abilities themselves but with an Eldrazi twist in a couple cases. Green still ramps but instead of regular dorks or extra lands it deals with scions. Blue still has a lot of evasion but it’s more to get those ingest triggers to put cards in exile.

@darianleyer5777 9 ай бұрын

Does Devoid override the ability of Painter's Servant?

@eldercleric 9 ай бұрын

This is a good question for a judge as it goes into layers. But guessing it will be a color since it effects it after it started. But im unsure

@williamdrum9899 9 ай бұрын

I doubt it.

@brianmartodam1114 9 ай бұрын

Painter's Servant beats Devoid. Characteristic-defining abilities like Devoid are always applied first, so other effects like Painter’s Servant will apply on top of them.

@reginaldkwarnerii8027 9 ай бұрын

New to the channel. Loving the content. Where are those background visuals from?

@ashemabahumat4173 5 ай бұрын

The way I see it, Devoid probably implies the fact that they are or have eaten/absorbed/corrupted mana and things associated with said colors. So a werewolf thats been converted would still be the werewolf with the same color alignment, but the color itself is a holdover from before then.

@butteredcrumpits8434 9 ай бұрын

I think the colourless spells did have one connection which could potentially be good: the fact that they exile cards, which a whole lot of eldrazi creatures and spells could combo great effects off of.

@AmewTheFox 9 ай бұрын

Sadly no mention of what I feel is the best color changing card, Eight-And-a-Half-Tails. Sure, it isn’t *every* color, but the effect at least synergizes with another of his abilities (giving a permanent ProWhite)

@micheal5973 9 ай бұрын

With all the impulse draw, adventure, fortell etc etc cards running around these days i just run a copy or two of some of the eldrazi processors in a few decks just for lols

@jonbrewer297 3 ай бұрын

Sinister Strength had some value in limited, and Wild Mongrel is Wild Mongrel. Color change may actually be worse than lifegain on its own, though.

@Caramelldanson 9 ай бұрын

I think the point of devoid was to impose the cost of needing to use colored mana and not just generic mana like normal colorless cards did. Of course, this issue was better solved by differentiating colorless mana from generic mana, which they quickly did.

@l33_generic37 7 ай бұрын

Devoid is fun because according to the rules they are always considered colorless. That being said, the new MH3 eldrazi commander makes it possible to have a five color deck that is TECHNICALLY a colorless deck as long as it's just devoid, colorless, and lands.

@christopherb501 9 ай бұрын

And now, you need to make the companion piece to this: the failure of _text-changing_ effects, which usually involved color.

@munchrai6396 9 ай бұрын

Couldn't stop thinking about Gozen Match throughout this entire video. I'm surprised color locking hasn't ever become a thing in Magic or else you could just Enchant the first monster your opponent dropped to lock them out of the game

@abbydabbs5519 7 ай бұрын

I find colour changing more helpful in commander when there’s lots of colours on the battlefield and someone having “protection from -colour-“ can make them really painful to play against *cough* animar

@gmradio2436 9 ай бұрын

Devoid needs work. It needs a little more design put into. Example. Aether Lighting R1 Deviod Deal 2 damage to any creature or player. Deal an additional 1 damage for each color that creature or player is. Technically the color check on players should only return value if they are under the effects of an enchantment like Form of Dragon/Dinosaur. So 2 mana shock on colorless, but up to 7 possibly damage. That might work in a future set.

@invertedghostgames9899 9 ай бұрын

The only thing I hate about Devoid is how it works with color identity. Or rather, how it doesn't. You can't exile a "green" card with Devoid for something like Force of Vigor because it's colorless. And yet it still counts as green in it's mana identity for things like what commander deck you can put them in. As a mechanic, it just... doesn't work with any sort of rules. "I wanna put Abstruse Interference in my Red/Black Treasures Deck! But I can't because it somehow both is and isn't Blue."

@gtfawaynotnow 8 ай бұрын

I wouldn’t say color changing is a failed mechanic; for one magic doesn’t care about the color pie like it did. But in general you can build a jank deck with color hate and then just change your opponent’s spells to that color. That aside there are a few color changing effects that are insanely powerful. If your opponent is not running black or colorless then something like contamination or infernal darkness will just win you the game.

@chiccaraki 9 ай бұрын

Blind Seer + Spreading Plague + Cavern Harpy + Shifting Sky Fun way to lockdown. Play Cavern Harpy as an instant for a repeatable Wrath of God. White has useful cards like Teferi's Moat and most cards came from the Invasion Block. Was it good? No.

@Kpsla 9 ай бұрын

Devoid and color changing has a unique advantage against Protection, since most common sources of Protection protect from a *color*. But Protection is not common enough to justify running color changing just to counter it.

@sigurvit9689 4 ай бұрын

No mention of Leyline of the Guildpact seems weird

@thepiratedoggo1996 9 ай бұрын

imo i tend to find a lot of gimmicky decks don't work out well in most TCGs unless they have a bonus effect on top of there main gimmick that's suitably sufficient, or else it never see's much play, if to doesn't help advance the game state while providing other utilities or is built in a way that's too convoluted, that doesn't help ether. shame about color changing really.

@DungeonMagister 6 ай бұрын

Maybe a theft-based deck? I think it would be horribly entertaining to see a creatureless deck that steals opponent's creatures, then makes them another color to use them for other spell effects. It wouldn't be too tier or anything, but it would be REALLY FUNNY.

@madamthulhu7856 9 ай бұрын

all i really want is devoid to be used on some new eldrazi and the ruling changed to that it effects color identity. i just want to be able to make janky decks with out of color spells for weird niche gameplay

@izaiahsundquist6877 9 ай бұрын

Darkest Hour also is pretty good and has it's own combos, albeit mostly in EDH.

@Jeison-Nunes 3 ай бұрын

I just love how people hate or misses the point of Devoid, it's not really a mechanic, is a way to make Eldrazi spells costs actual colored mana but retain the lore that Eldrazi are colorless, mindless and act on instinct, that's all there is to it, it barely has any effect on the game itself, it's mainly for deck building while also maintaining the lore of Eldrazi intact, that's it

@Atmapalazzo 9 ай бұрын

Replacing the colorless matters with eldrazi matters in bfz would make the cards incredibly parasitic. Eldrazi are rare and don't show up often.

@macinnes800ad 9 ай бұрын

In my opinion youre viewing it from a very Yu-Gi-Oh oriented perspective. In magic the game is and still is a game about flavour being at the forefront of cards. The eldrazi were supposed to be the biggest threat in world that we had ever explored, printing them on normal cards wouldnt feel right. Youre going from the Yu-Gi-Oh perspective that every word on a card has to matter for it to be good, but like if Im just splashing Eldrazi cards with devoid, it doesnt really matter if that keyword does or doesnt synergise with the rest of my deck

@DreZato12 9 ай бұрын

devoid would be an deciduous mechanic if it was ruled that it removes colour identity allowing devoid cards to be played in any commander deck

@santiagoteruel4145 Ай бұрын

Just realized. If there was a big monster with menacing, it could melt and eldrazi player and there is nothing they could do about it except do the same to you

@Lil.lyGoose 9 ай бұрын

i always thought devoid was done to nerf eldrazi and make them less flexible, and as a flavor mechanic

@nickd6303 9 ай бұрын

Devoid feels more synonymous to changeling.

@Nagol93 9 ай бұрын

Another unintended downside of Devoid is in Commander. It locks out a LARGE chunk of the eldrazi tribe from eldrazi decks, because Devoid dosent change the color identity and pretty much every eldrazi deck is colorless...... Also for added frustration Sphinx of the Guildpact has pretty much the inverse of Devoid, and it's identity was ruled to be 5c.......

@dariocampanella7992 9 ай бұрын

5:00 is just describing contemporary magic and his bomby mythics

@asmithgames5926 9 ай бұрын

Sleight of Mind can be really powerful!

@jshtng78 9 ай бұрын

People saying that Devoid achieving its lore purpose and being relevant in its original Standard disqualifying from a place on lists like this need to realize that isn't the criteria used by Logs' team in their 'Failed' mega-cycle of videos. By that definition both Shadow and Arcane would be considered successful mechanics.

@kait3n 9 ай бұрын

it still isn't a failed mechanic, shadow was succeeded by fear and later menace, arcane is an irrelevant spell subtype that doesn't interact with anything and will never be used in a standard set again. Devoid is neither of those and never failed because it served it's purpose in both gameplay and lore and will definitely appear again if eldrazi return in standard. these things are not the same.

@Yacopsev 6 ай бұрын

you should remake devoid section, taking into account modern horizons 3. i think eldrazi should be limited to one set.

@obsplays5311 9 ай бұрын

9:00 "...even if it *has colored mana in the casting cost*"

@faithwelding 9 ай бұрын

I think MTG needs expanding colors. Eldrazi needs purple color, Artifact needs brown color.

@Joker22593 9 ай бұрын

Devoid is great for Ancient Stirrings. Unfortunately, almost nothing with devoid is worth grabbing.

@Joker22593 9 ай бұрын

Also, the first devoid card and the first card with Ugin is "Ghostfire", a card from the future.

@Hanmacx 9 ай бұрын

For more obscure, look at Ghostly Flame 😅

@yumyum366 9 ай бұрын

Devoid was a marker for the tribe more than it was a mechanic.

@kamikazebanzai1005 9 ай бұрын

But "Devoid" was only there for flavour???

@Forsparda 9 ай бұрын

i think devoid would have been fine had they just made all the cards around it just care about colourless cards it would have made them feel different and weird without being to much

@chrisgebben2043 9 ай бұрын

Well it's definitely not a failed mechanic I'm like 99% sure it's coming back in MH3

@jesseperkins9669 9 ай бұрын

Color changing, a MTG mechanic most enjoyed by Rachel Dolezal

@CorbetHainey 9 ай бұрын

Devoid isn’t pointless Even if only for building commander decks

@Merlewhitefire 9 ай бұрын

I disagree with the framework of treating every individual card that changes color as its own isolated interaction. For instance, Sylvan Anthem plus a color-changing effect like Painter's Servant isn't "Two cards to buff one card." It's two cards to buff every card you summon, plus draw you an extra card per summon, plus whatever other synergies you can build around that. It's not like you're discarding the Anthem after you summon a single creature.

@williamdrum9899 9 ай бұрын

Or you could just play all green creatures and get the bonus without needing Painter's Servant in the first place. Using two cards for an effect is so much worse than one. This is why multiple cards working together are allowed to be far, far more than the sum of their parts.

@Merlewhitefire 9 ай бұрын

@@williamdrum9899 I didn't say anything about how good or bad it was, I said that they weren't single-use cards so I didn't agree with evaluating them as if they were.