Ep. 317 | The Consumer Cult (with Amanda Montell)

[@juliee5027]

As a Scandinavian it’s quite curious to see people in the comments completely dismissing the idea that Christianity could possibly be a cult, while using the very language and thought stopping mantras you speak of. It very much emphasises Amanda’s point. She even points out that all cults or cult like communities are not necessarily bad, which makes it even more interesting that people get so defensive right away, much like the Soul Cycle anecdote.

[@nateperry405]

I’ve been doing CrossFit for over a year and if your gym pushes you past your limit towards injury and encourages you to do that…you go to a bad gym and have bad coaches. Good coaches help their members grow in a healthy way. Most people who do CrossFit aren’t going to compete, but are just looking to get in shape and having healthy limits and being pushed in healthy ways is why I love my gym and coaches.

[@natashyas4149]

Other-izing others is a big thing these days. Amanda is super well-spoken. Thanks for this conversation.

[@anaiteemills6693]

Wow Amanda is so well-spoken, clear, non-judgemental and thought provoking. Really great interview and very useful insights. Good work mimimalists! I love this cultish hahaha

[@rachelvasquez252]

Those phrases! My parents were drug addicts and when I was about 6 some Christians brought them “into the flock”. We started going to church. Once when I came out of a Sunday school class and asked my mom a question. She freaked out and panicked right there on the spot at church. She wouldn’t answer but instead said “to question is to deny Christ” and that’s the one way to get a ticket straight to hell. I think I was 8 years old and I decided on the spot that I was not going to believe the bull shit. Absolutely nothing was making sense to me.

[@marram2852]

Fortunately, not all Christian denominations are like that.

[@MarleneHen]

@@marram2852 Which one is?? I've gone to a number of different denominations and can't think of even one.

[@MarleneHen]

How very odd. Jesus himself answered questions....

[@lyndemar]

This is one of the best interviews I’ve heard you guys do. Can’t wait to listen to the patreon podcast and check out Amanda’s book.

[@gwenj5419]

Just because you're enthusiastic about something, doesn't make it a cult. I think it has to have an aspect of coercion and punishments for those who step out of line. Part of this is just semantics. Cult can have a couple different meanings.

[@juliee5027]

Best guest episode so far 🙌. I really like that you have mastered asking thoughtful questions and letting your guest speak the majority of the time, then these guest episodes really makes sense. Besides that, it’s a truly fascinating topic and Amanda is very well spoken. Well done 👏

[@banirahman4926]

For me it’s wonderful to belong to a community or a group of people with similar beliefs as long as they are not doing any harm to society or to individuals and as long as they don’t force their opinions on me and I have the right to question and think my way.

[@SFoureman]

Thank you, Ryan for your specific insight. Means the world to me. I feel this subject could be talked about a LOT more...addressing how to get over the pain caused from the purposed alienation. ...how to move onward, beyond life in a cult.

[@emilyxrodr]

Amazing episode! Amanda's book is next on my list.

[@daCubanaqt]

My old boss long ago used to always say, “It is what it is”. I used to hate it. I always would tell him, no it doesn’t have to be that way lol.

[@slyboy45]

Jesus was not the ultimate cult leader. He did not want power or fame. He was humble and unassuming.

[@sarahlockridge7879]

While I do thoroughly agree with this... And I am a born-again Christian, I've been reading the Old testament and since Jesus is God, God does want ultimate power and authority... But he is worthy lol and he is God but by this author's definition, She could use that as an argument for her reason. But I still am glad that you said something and I totally agree!

[@sarahlockridge7879]

I think it's safe to say that while this author has many very valid points, we also need to use our hearts and our brains at what our true beliefs are and go by that. If we as Christians believe that Jesus is the Messiah and ultimately leader, I don't need an author who did some research who has some belief telling me that I'm bad or that my faith is a cult. I will stand on the word of God and what HE says is the ultimate power and authority.

[@slyboy45]

@@sarahlockridge7879 I agree if anyone is the cult leader it is God and he created everything so he should be in control. Amen

[@Oliver.Verdant]

Thank You for this. I'm so sorry for all the nonsense and horrible mixed things I put out. I felt like I had to have answers for everything I felt. I felt like I was forced to be a leader and try not to be afraid and explain my playlist the Matrix after it blew up and I had so many things and I wanted to express my love for. Horror films, music, theater, Minimalism and I tried to express my love for the scenes, movies, music and actors that inspired me to grow and face all the hardships I faced in my life. Being Transgender is hard and I wanted to be there for everyone who is hurting. I tried to show how there is Beauty in everyone 😪 I'm really nothing like my social media.

[@ChrisSaenz13]

Amazing episode very very informative! I ordered Amanda's book with my birthday gift card & her podcast is awesome!!!

[@OliviaKruis]

Excellent and thought provoking and well spoken on all of your parts thanks for producing quality meaningful and valuable content. You are ALL so smart :) I enjoyed listening to this and have been enjoying listening to the podcast in general and love what you guys stand for. I think it's how we go about something that makes it positive same thing with minimalism :) one cultish group that stood out to me was 'Instagram therapists' that are not licensed in any way that is something I think that is not good, or at least people should be very clear that they are speaking from their own experience and opinion and giving advice but it should not be considered professional or clinical. and hustle culture definitely! i have a lot of thoughts about Christianity or rather Christian culture/the organized religion side of it being considered cultish or having cultish elements: respectfully and all love here as a person of faith Christianity in some sects as a religion could be a cult which I definitely understand from personal experience that so can relate and know what you mean by that. I am so grateful for the foundation of faith and Christian influences growing up but have also spent a lot of my life unlearning some harmful damaging negative unhealthy parts of the specific church group I was raised in that caused a lot of shame which I now recognize was cultish even though there were positive things about it. I think there can be some dangerous and unhealthy things that get twisted in the church just like with anything else but that doesn't mean the real thing isn't good or healthy. Because now I am just living life, watching church online, and have a very positive relationship with God and Jesus based on God's love and goodness, trust and real life. Because Christianty is ultimately not a religion but a relationship. Which I know even a relationship with one person can be toxic or abusive and trust me I've been there but God is the source of everything good in life, the force for ultimate good and is perfect and holy so definitely not toxic or abusive. Saying that Jesus Christ was the ultimate cult leader is kind of true although he also broke the cult that was established traditionally in Jewish culture of having to follow a very specific set of rules/do enough or the right things to earn God's love (religion). I think that a real relationship with Jesus Christ is about acknowledging that we all fall short and can't be perfect or do enough or be good enough and earn things on life do what is required of us in life without God and God's love and need God's love forgiveness and new life because God is the only one that loves and can love us perfectly completely and forever and has given us life and the good gifts we have and the love in our hearts. God is the only one that can give us value not just recognize our value. And then i think living in faith based on love doing your best and trusting that God is good ultimately is where it's at and it's always safe and okay to question God because God can handle that. it doesn't shut down independent thinking but faith is not complicated or hard to comprehend it's actually quite simple just not easy. Faith in a positive way does morally and ethically clearly define right from wrong because something has to. I don't think we should leave that up to humans with their own faults and limitations and agendas because that has not gotten us to a good place currently looking at the corruption in our culture. there does have to be some standard/ultimate authority and a good one and I believe that is Jesus Christ. I also think faith has to be on a real human level, be about love, and be integrated and balanced into life/holistic to be healthy. It is comforting and tempting to want to have all the answers but honestly my faith is not like that at all. I can challenge things and struggle and life can be stressful and difficult and faith doesn't always provide a clear cut answer or solution it gives meaning and purpose to everything you go through in life though. I deliberately do not speak 'Christianese' like a lot of Christian culture which I agree could be cultish where there is an insider language/vernacular. Sidenote I love Dr Caroline Leaf's work she is a Christian and also a neuroscientist who talks about some of the damaging things about Christian culture and how quoting scripture instead of dealing with things mentally and emotionally creates cognitive dissonance and what to do instead. here's a link to an interview she did no one speaks better on it than her so i'll let her work speak for itself she's brilliant :) kzbin.info/www/bejne/e5KboXubmtmendE I also do believe that people have value and potential for good and someone's value shouldn't be only the value they give to others although that is also so valuable and important and it's important to contribute and be responsible and congruent with our lives values and actions and that's what we're here for on some level to add value make a positive impact and contribution and love/be loved I do think we need to be careful with skepticism because although questioning and challenging everything and thinking for yourself is absolutely very important and God gave us a brain and we should use it, not having anything you stand for can lead to relativism where there is no objective or absolute truth and there is no clearly defined standard of what is right or wrong and there is no shame attached to doing things wrong or making mistakes because we all do it we're human but realizing that some things are objectively wrong so that we can steer away from doing those learn from our mistakes do better and improve i know this is a lot of thoughts and i hope they make sense i know they might not necessarily be linear or logical but i hope to spark some good thoughts/conversation :)

[@jwilson941]

I respect that you two men may have decided not to legally marry the women you are with but when Ryan says "we don't have the piece of paper that says we are married", it sounds like you are trying to downplay or minimize the legal definition of marriage. The proper reference is a marriage license and certificate. A person can say they are married, wear a ring on their left finger, and call their romantic partner their wife or husband but legally you are not married without the piece of paper. It is the same as a person who calls a college degree a piece of paper, a person calling themselves a college graduate but does not have a college degree from an accredited university is not a college graduate. Just because one may not agree with the definition of something or does not value the formality and anything else that comes along does not mean the definition changes and people can make up their own rules and definitions. I am not saying one is better than the other but facts are facts and words have a definition.

[@lexy800]

I see what you’re saying, but I think they downplay marriage that way because the “paper” or certificate, document, degree, etc is sometimes meaningless. Our society and our practices are what make it meaningful. I just recently graduated college and I can certainly say that if I would have bought the right books and had good mentors, I could have learned everything I did in much less than 4 years with hands on experience, something college doesn’t really encourage. So it’s more so, is the document/degree innately meaningful or did we just make it so as a society?

[@uwsupergirl]

@@lexy800 marriage has LEGAL definition and thus has value in terms of what the legal contract provides you in our society. My late husband of 31 years died of pancreatitis cancer at age 60. I'm disabled from a genetic condition but work part time and when he died, I lost his financial support, but because we were married so long and he provided my financial support, I could get Widow's disability. That's a benefit of marriage. There are many others. So it's not "just" a piece of paper, or a word. It has meaningful implications.

[@MarleneHen]

I agree with what you're saying completely. I will add that in one video I heard one of them - I think Ryan - say that he finds it easier to say wife in many situations. I think I also remember them both saying that avoiding marriage may, in part, be due to previous failed marriages.

[@jmoufarrege]

Fantastic episode! What an intelligent person Amanda is!

[@TeriHargraveartist]

Ryan looks like a buff Jesus. But, seriously :} I still have the dreams about armageddon 30 years after leaving the JWs. Powerful stuff!

[@smeag9280]

Amen.

[@sashab.3362]

This puts the cult of narcissistic separatism into perspective. I was in a quasi cult that feigned being thought encouraging but had stifling simplistic answers to complex human dilelemmas.

[@justzaya]

anyone interested in learning more about cults should check out Dr. Janja Lalich. she discusses some of the topics covered today in a more definitive manner. this discussion was is great for the context of the show (challenging consumersim), but for those wondering more about the mechanisms of "full-blown cults", so to speak, Dr. Janja Lalich is a great reference

[@nateperry405]

Throwing up is not a badge of honor in CrossFit, that’s disgusting and untrue lol. At least at my gym.

[@sarahlockridge7879]

Listen, my church makes us feel special when we show up so let's be careful the language we use lol. And no, my church is not a cult lol. It's a Christian church. We welcome everyone in the door with a hug if they would like, handshakes, smiles and words of welcome because that's what Jesus would do. Show love, love people.

[@jainthorne4136]

But do we "all" belong to a cult? It's interesting to ponder. I don't belong to any religious group. I don't follow social groups like MLM or CrossFit or dieting trends. Thanks to minimalism I'm out of the consumer cult but don't follow minimalism to a slavish degree at all. Hell, I"m very seldom even on Facebook. I'm not saying this to say it's not possible that I follow a cult. I'm just curious as to what it would be if I don't fall into any of those categories. I spend my time, when not at work, in reading, biking, walking, listening to music or connecting with friends.

[@LJ542]

Jain - I wouldn't even worry about it if I were you. You sound normal, regular, very cool......and definitely not in a cult but if you were, so what? I don't think we all belong to a cult, either. This is definitely a topic to NOT get distracted over.

[@jainthorne4136]

@@LJ542 Thank you. I just found it interesting to ponder. We all tend to think "Not Me!" about certain things so it's interesting to try to view things from another perspective. Thank you for your reply. Happy holidays!

[@PatriciaCarrier]

Thank you, great insight!

[@0KiteEatingTree0]

I would say most of us find some sort of tribe or club at various stages in our lives. Fads come and go and maybe some become cults? The minimalist tribe sounds much better 😀

[@jadelee6363]

As someone who just left their Qanon spouse, I can definitely attest that it is a CULT!

[@smallhouseinthemeadow6131]

My daughter is in to that ideology and has ghosted me and doesn't allow me to connect with my grandchildren anymore.

[@jj1982ify]

Colts or no colts its all just a label..keep everything minimal. Im a human being. Thats it!

[@kiwikim5163]

Be wary of yoga and wellness cults. The channel Conspirituality explores the materialism and cultish behaviors in some of these groups. The Q-anon and other conspiracy theories have taken over some of these groups.

[@mikejones6399]

Funny peculiar or Funny Ha-Ha!

[@erickhernandez5316]

GANG GANG

[@jwilson941]

At minute mark 16:43, she curses. At minute mark 20:18 she asks can I curse? You have already cursed. Is she even listening to her own words?

[@swagbag7951]

Lol she shilling socialism cult. You can tell by her verbiage...”social safety net” all on their own” “individualism”

[@swagbag7951]

“Institutions” “values of individualism”....lmao government institutions also cults idiot

[@jc10907Sealy]

JW

[@meherenow793]

tRump lost; also, "panties".

[@willalfano8]

2d charisma thats great

[@damarispadilla3057]

I'm confused! The title says "consumer" cult, not cults in general. I don't need advice about cults, I don't listen to The Minimalist for religious advice. Wrong content for the title or wrong title for the content.

[@daCubanaqt]

I thought it was going to be about consumerism as well! Still an interesting video, but I was confused at first too 🤣

[@roz8951]

If I could speak for the Minimalists, I would say I think that was their intention and at 37 mins Joshua tries to bring it back there. I think the fact that Amanda was left to keep talking meant that she directed the conversation elsewhere. While she had some good content, I would have appreciated her not trying to dominate. A little more respect and allowing Josh to finish his sentences would have been great.

[@sarahlockridge7879]

I was told when I was a child, any religion that doesn't have the holy trinity as the foundational belief is considered a cult. So the holy Trinity is the father the son and the holy Spirit all being one true God.