TOTALISATOR Gambling Machines Were Very COMPLEX And Electromechanical

Today we look at totaliser betting system as a whole and put an aggregator back together.
follow along with the project of plomping it all back together!
These have come from Lucien Nunes Vaz MEET collection.
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[@morgonburke263]

Setting this up with a mechanical horse race would be a very fun exhibit

[@curtishoffmann6956]

When I heard "greyhound display board," I was thinking "England has the Greyhound bus company?" Betting on which bus has the fewest drunk passengers might be fun...

[@ClosestNearUtopia]

Greyhound sounds like something out of MGS.

[@RetroJack]

Not everything comes from 'murica.

[@gothicseagull7997]

28:46 The way it all clicks over instead of smoothly rotating gives the appearance of stop motion, wicked!

[@projekt6_official]

It always blows my mind the solutions people came up with for such complicated processes. You and your friends are incredible for sharing all of this stuff, Sam!

[@gryzman]

computers internally aren't any less complex. We just don't see it :-)

[@neonblack211]

​@@gryzmanwho said they were

[@rupertkingsley]

Fabulous! You’re Deliberately falling down the rabbit hole. To quote The Blues Brothers “ it’s 106 miles to Chicago, we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it’s dark and we’re wearing sunglasses - hit it!”

[@THISMUSEUMISNOTOBSOLETE]

lol yeah, sometimes you have to fall down these to learn new things and uncover stuff that other people might be interested in too

[@hugodesrosiers-plaisance3156]

Man, those old-time clickety-clonk machines are just SO elegant. There's a whole esthetic to them. I hope I can visit your museum one day!

[@ianhighley-zo3es]

This is fascinating, it’s amazing what was done with electromechanical systems. I admire you for taking the time to get it working for the rest of us to appreciate.

[@andy2950]

The Computer Science department at the University of Auckland has a huge archive on totaliser machines. They are a good place to start. They may have knowledge of British archives. Certainly, they can answer some technical questions .

[@LOOKMUMNOCOMPUTER]

Yep been through it all to figure it out. Sadly not specifically the same and don't massively go into the technical details. But thoroughly useful regardless!

[@andy2950]

@LOOKMUMNOCOMPUTER Have you tried Birmingham City Council? They have a local Perry Barr archive. Local newspapers? Even the local MP? There must be hundreds of people in Birmingham with employment or family links to the greyhound track. It still exists. Pictures or even parts sitting in lofts.

[@LOOKMUMNOCOMPUTER]

@@andy2950 yeah likely! nice idea. it would be a list ditch attempt but yes :)!!! cheers!

[@bhhenry]

Ah, my little chickadee, this delightful contraption reassembled before our very eyes is nothing short of a mechanical marvel! The sheer complexity and the intricate dance of gears and levers in these Totalisator machines are enough to tickle the ivories of one’s mind. Bravo to the curator, Mr. Nunes, for piecing together this behemoth from the annals of gambling lore. I'll be following along with bated breath and a keen eye, hoping you'll soon unearth the remaining pieces of this electrifying puzzle. Keep up the splendid work, and remember, in the immortal words of yours truly, a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do!

[@GothGuy885]

in some ways, the Totalizator, is like an electronically augmented / Motorized version of Babbage's Analytical engine .... 🤔 Thank you for another interesting video Mate 😀👍

[@al3k]

Damn... Everything you show me in this channel is just ridiculously and cherishably covetable to me... :) Don't ever stop rescuing them, please. I'm glad to know someone is keeping them safe.

[@peterbustin2683]

We used to use TIM ticket machines on the buses in Devon, back in the mid eighties.

[@DannyO-j4q]

I've never thought about trig being used to determine odds based on tickets sold. It completely makes sense now that I think about it. Thanks for the info and the video.

[@LOOKMUMNOCOMPUTER]

Yeah same! When I read about that. The penny dropped! Very cool

[@myfaveyoutube]

Not many people know the betting corporation in Australia named TAB originally stood for Totaliser Agency Board

[@JasperJanssen]

The sports betting section of the government-owned betting things in the Netherlands is the Toto, for similar reasons.

[@MattMcIrvin]

While I was watching you talk about the rabbit example, a bunny hopped across my back patio.

[@DavidCookeZ80]

Not sure if you have a teleprinter in the museum, but that is what I've always know Creed for, and it looks like they share some components. The motor, oldham coupling, worm drive and slip clutches look familiar. Used to have a Creed 7B hooked up to my Nascom 1 before dot matrix printers became available. The mechanical parallel to serial to parallel conversion was fascinating. Designed and built to run all day. Though I did come across one with an "auto power off": a string wrapped around a shaft that only spun when a character was being handled raised a weight. When it wasn't operating the weight gradually descended until it landed on the toggle switch for power, turning it off.

[@CaptainBee100]

Interesting to see that motor looks like it was made by Creed & Co. Ltd. They were manufacturers of teleprinters from the 1920’s onwards, and still used in the British Armed Forces and elsewhere for many decades. I worked on them in the 60’s and 70’s and like your totalisator, they were amazingly mechanical with hundreds of moving parts, all working together.

[@mattWallJsy]

I've worked in the Tote betting on Jersey racecourse. At the end of the afternoon, my head feels and sounds not dissimilar to your totalisator! 😂 Brilliant bit of kit.

[@pileofstuff]

I've heard of that type of batting called "Parimutuel Betting", and around my area, it's currently used at horse racing tracks.

[@PhilR0gers]

What an incredible mechanism. I always wondered what was going on behind those boards. Never dreamt that it would use differentials.

[@optroncordian7863]

Is there a way to gracefully set this aggregator to zero? I guess, they need to reset the system at the start of the day ...

[@LOOKMUMNOCOMPUTER]

I think there is but I haven't figured it out quite yet. Lots or solenoids to do so just need to do a bit more thinking

[@kattenfrederik618]

Mechanical computing, that's so mesmerizing. Fantastic that someone like you take time out to save this 😊

[@gallimead]

I studied at UCE / Perry Barr from 93-96. And the halls of residence where opposite the greyhound stadium, and my bedroom window was directly opposite the green neon of the stadium. Did I ever go?. No.. and now kicking myself. I'm now in Celina. Ohio, USA. This is fascinating.

[@videoviewer2008]

I've been to Celina. How is the lake doing?

[@Spacecat206]

Thanks for sharing with us! I wonder what the highest number of ticket booths ever supported by the system was.

[@AnalogDude_]

When was this made, plastics? Check out the datasheet from the SSM2164 (obsolete and used in profesional stuff), it shows how to create a voltage controlled VCA (fader), the replacement SSI2164 (62, 61) datasheet, shows the same, but also how to make low pass, hi pass filters. What you need to build a Struder 961 clone mixer with uses Hi, Low pass filters. it would be a pretty simple build, electronic fader, Hi, Low pass filters, mute switch (atari button), accept the headphone stuff. Put a SSI2164 on a adapter pcb to breadboard it.

[@coco805]

this was really interesting. Thanks for digging up this cool piece of forgotton tech and breaking it down for us.

[@Colin_Ames]

What an outstanding piece of equipment. Thanks for showcasing it. When I lived in Coventry I went to the greyhound track occasionally, and lost a few quid each time. Not sure if they used a system like this one, but I guess it was similar.

[@KeritechElectronics]

An electromechanical thing of beauty! I'm deeply moved by the complexity, precision and modularity of the mechanism. This reminds me of Tatjana Joelle van Vark and her creations, absolutely marvelous works of art in mechanical and electrical engineering.

[@danneliu]

What a machine! Interesting to see and good it landed in your hands, it will be proper used and not just stored 😊

[@EdEditz]

You never fail to amaze me with the machines you come across. It's awesome. Never seen one of these before.

[@monad_tcp]

gonna end up doing a charles babbage mechanical computer eventually, "look mum, no computers". slowly getting to computers from no computers.

[@amateurprogrammer25]

idea for demonstrating this: quiz show with 6 answer choices, winners get an amount of candy equal to the amount shown on the totalizator

[@zebo-the-fat]

Imagine sitting down with a blank sheet of paper to design this!!

[@padders1068]

Sam, thanks for sharing! That's an amazing piece of electromechanical engineering. Good luck on working it all out, as my mind can't even start to comprehend how it actually works. Take care mate 🙂😎❤

[@AnalogDude_]

Yeah, there weren't stupid back than, we're now, most don't read the seince from them. We need to save the planet?

[@FPSNecromancerBob]

8:40 Big Clive camera mode active

[@Simple_But_Expensive]

II could be wrong, but I believe the “angle bar” you were speaking of was a form of analog computer. They were used in WWII naval gunnery computers. The “differential adders” definitely come from that tech. A KZbin channel called Periscope has a couple of training films on how they worked if you want to know more.

[@THISMUSEUMISNOTOBSOLETE]

yep one of the many uses. a cosine has a lot of uses in equations. and making a triangle assembly is a good way of getting that number mechanically. this is also a big mechanical computer, much like the ones for equations used on ships.

[@sambaker3233]

These were invented by a New Zealander Sir George Julius. The very first Totalisator was installed at Ellerslie Racecourse in Auckland, NZ. The one that you have here could have been made in NZ. Australians, New Zealanders and South Africans will know of a betting agency called the TAB which is short for Totalisator Agency Board.

[@DetroitMicroSound]

"I thought you might like these, Del! I got them for a song...Now we just need Michael to install them upstairs at the Nag's Head, and we're all winners!!!" -Boycie.

[@dougaldhendrick3497]

TAB in Australia, Totaliser Agency Board, around for a looong time.

[@WOFFY-qc9te]

Tip from a teleprinter guy, use a hair dryer to warm the grease up to about 60C, this gets things moving. CREED of Croydon. I visited the workshops in 1988 to salvage teleprinter spares, the guys there were very into the mechanics but could see the writing on the wall. I notice the motor is Creed but I do not think this is something they would have built but see a number of teleprinter components or solution in you machine. Lucien was a fine man an electromechanical genius who is greatly missed, his mission continues with you and others. Freedom juice, good stuff but these sorts of machines sometimes have felt clutch's and any silicon or WD in those can upset the operation.

[@THISMUSEUMISNOTOBSOLETE]

cheers woffy, yes we have some creed's at the museum too, they love turning up gunked up dont they ha, the motor is indeed creed also regarding the felt clutches. having worked on a few, not seen any adverse effects from wd40 however i have replaced the felts on a couple sounds good about the 60 degrees! hadnt thought of heat, cheers! ofcourse after the wd was light running oil. and oildag. cheers

[@THISMUSEUMISNOTOBSOLETE]

as late as 1988. when did they shut shop?

[@WOFFY-qc9te]

@@THISMUSEUMISNOTOBSOLETE Heat works a charm and the machines usually continue running ok. 1988, when I visited Creed they had little work and were happy for us to take a load of manuals and spares for the Creeds 7B's and later, plus readers etc. They had little work as the only machines running were 444's and two others mainly with the Military and the PO. I passed on a lot of gear to Porthcurno museum last year but hope to get one or two of mine running on the news wires service and sms text like CuriousMarc has done. Can't stand modern kit...... So sad to loose Lucien, he was a very intuitive thinker and helped save some treasures, he would be very proud of your work. I very near got landed with a Compton Organ but fortunately someone stepped up and bought it so I dodge a nice bullet. YT Migget1 collects telephones from around the world and would appreciate some visits. Take care mate and thanks for documenting our electromechanical history. Best

[@barrieshepherd7694]

@@THISMUSEUMISNOTOBSOLETE Ordinary WD40 has a tendency to free things up - for a time - then the volatiles evaporate and leave thick sticky stuff behind. PlusGas is an excellent freeing agent. The secret is to thoroughly clean off the freeing agent then use an appropriate lubricant. Maybe some oildag from the telephone exchange , or other recommended exchange selector oil , would be a decent lubricant. I'm betting that the lubricants recommended for ringing machines and teleprinter maintenance are appropriate.

[@nilspipenbrinck8040]

Hey, me and my wife wondered when this thing has been build. There is likely a date on the motor plate. Would be nice if you can look that up and tell us.

[@michaelcherry8952]

You were doing great with the rabbit analogy up until the point where the maths sneaked up from behind and hit you with a pipe! Also, don't the "go faster" stripes make rabbit #3 a dead cert? If #1 was the winner, was #3 nobbled? How do you nobble a rabbit? Am I going down a rabbit hole?🤪 Seriously, I love these electromechanical computing devices. I'm sure they needed a lot of routine maintenance, but what mechanical marvels they are! Getting it up and running properly will be a challenge, but it will be really cool when you do. Looking forward to future updates.

[@ReznaQay]

the tape knows where is by knowing where it isnt

[@properjob2311]

its amazing what they could do using electro-mechanics

[@theelmonk]

Not many calculators will take your finger off if you maintain them carelessly

[@LOOKMUMNOCOMPUTER]

Well If you have a good adder. You don't need all 10 digits to count

[@gcewing]

The rotating part on the ticket machine is suggestive of a telephone dial. Maybe it sends a pulse train?

[@THISMUSEUMISNOTOBSOLETE]

it does. to the uniselectors underneath it, which then select the output pin to send the bet on

[@memejeff]

Very cool stuff.

[@gutterg0d]

I love this video, it's the best! I can't remember what it is about though, because I totally zoned out a couple of minutes in (I'm at 25 minutes now).... :D

[@marcfaulk]

18:00 Would the numbers going up to 20 / 40 be anything to to do with pre-decimal money? 20 shillings = 1 pound

[@LOOKMUMNOCOMPUTER]

Possible. I must be honest that is a massive gap in my knowledge and I guess I'll need to brush up on that to further understand and put this machine together

[@Gunstick]

And when it finally runs, you need a small model horse racing game, or a slot car raceway. And monopoly money. So you can have peple racing and betting.

[@timballam3675]

I think Mr Ken needs to have a look

[@traumgeist]

The fire control computers on WW2 US Navy battleships are similar to those motor driven gear differential calculators but much larger. Made by Ford (Not that Ford).

[@LOOKMUMNOCOMPUTER]

Yep! Analog mechanical computers are awesome! And had many applications

[@LOOKMUMNOCOMPUTER]

The ones in greyhound stadium totaisators were about 12 foot tall. Pretty large.

[@dedicatedspuddler7641]

A very interesting machine! So very clever.

[@StepDub]

Love analog. This is a great example.

[@oasntet]

Neat and complicated! When I see something this complex and think about how it is/was used IRL, I think about how unreliable humans are. It's another lens to view the thing from - what happens when a ticket seller makes a mistake and has to back out a sale?

[@tomholroyd7519]

I really want to call it a totalizer too.

[@michaelmiller641]

Wow, what a machine!

[@ibanezleftyclub]

Totalizator sounds like either a great band name or album name.

[@gryzman]

I'd start contacting lion clubs around the country, there are folks in retirement that probably know a lot about it - but aren't watching KZbin videos.

[@loopinnerthe]

You are fearless.

[@MrMoon1ight]

что б узнать как выглядела машина можно поискать в местном архиве газеты или фотографии того времени или у людей поспрашивать пожилых и можно будет воссоздать машину :)

[@hattree]

My guess the accumulator wheels are 100's, 10's , and 1's places.

[@mjdapp]

18'20" One rotation is 20 bets, but is also 40 half bets. Presumably this thing handles both win and place bets by just treating all win bets as two place bets.

[@THISMUSEUMISNOTOBSOLETE]

more info please

[@mjdapp]

@@THISMUSEUMISNOTOBSOLETE I should say that I don't have any inside knowledge on those devices, it was just a thought that occurred when you said that you thought one rotation was 20 bets but the numbering on the wheel went up to 40 (well, technically 0-39, but you get the idea). That made me think that possibly the numbers didn't represent win bets but rather place ones and, since a win is worth twice as much as a place 20 win bets would be the same as 40 place ones. Given that the system has to handle both win and place bets and the display is almost certainly intended as more of a diagnostic or auditing indicator this makes sense and is far easier to read than if they'd tried to squeeze the text for the half bets onto those wheels (0, 1/2, 1, 1 1/2, 2, 2 1/2, etc). May not make any difference when you try to figure out how the rest of the machine works but, if things seems to be counting double or half in places that might explain why. I hope this makes sense.

[@THISMUSEUMISNOTOBSOLETE]

@@mjdapp agha i see! well from my understanding there is 1 aggregator for win bets and 1 for place bets, as they need to be kept seperate for the purpose of the seperate pools. so each greyhound race has 14 aggregators, 6 for win bets, 6 for place bets and 2 pools

[@THISMUSEUMISNOTOBSOLETE]

also check this this is the closest to the setup. as you can see an awful lot of aggregators for a days racing collection.powerhouse.com.au/object/32773

[@mjdapp]

@@THISMUSEUMISNOTOBSOLETE That thing gives me nightmares just looking at it. Hopefully yours is a little less complicated because that one seems to be capable of handling multiple bet amounts and 16 two-leg races. (or is that 16 lanes?) It's fascinating to see how it's evolved through the mix of technologies in there though - ranging from very old plugboard sockets and lamps to "modern" (1970/80's) LEDs and switches and even a Kienzle dot matrix printer. (And again, a heavy presence of repurposed telephony technology in there) Also that one's mobile so a good template if you ever decide to take the museum on the road...

[@michaelparks1632]

so mad how something so complex and incredible was rendered so obsolete by transistors

[@Lethgar_Smith]

Beautiful!

[@SuperRetroville]

Fascinating. Id date it 30s or 40s from the design.

[@dorketch]

im going to add "Freedom juice" to my vocabulary

[@allwaysareup]

Part of me loves the 40 counts per rotation on a decimal system

[@poofygoof]

I'm betting this made the gearing easier to manufacture, with the angles specified in gradians instead of degrees.

[@japesjapes1980]

@@poofygoof Just a thought - 1 full rotation of a wheel = 360 degrees. 360 divided by 40 = 9 - the highest number which can be represented in a column (Hundreds, Tens, Ones) before carrying to the next one. Perhaps that could explain the choice of 40? 🙂

[@samphillips4925]

So many electric contacts to clean

[@gregmark1688]

The word 'computer' originally meant a person (usually female) whose job it was to sit and calculate numbers all day, so yeah, you could have literally called them "computers".

[@MrJacoob406]

petition for joans organ to play Apparition de l'Eglise éternelle - Olivier Messiaen, it needs to be done

[@cannotbeleftblank6027]

But how does it reset to 0? Is there a special mode (via a relay?) that keeps all wheels ticking forward until they hit 0?

[@THISMUSEUMISNOTOBSOLETE]

0 is after 9. it just goes from 9 to 0

[@cannotbeleftblank6027]

@@THISMUSEUMISNOTOBSOLETE That's obvious from the footage. But how to get all counters back to 0 at a new race? There must be a mechanical thingimajiggy to make that happen. Sorry if that was unclear.

[@LariFariYoutube]

Pfff... insane.. Seeing this complex machine tells me two things..One: There must be a hack of a lot of money in the betting business..and Two: Compared to making such a machine, learning coding seems to be a walk in the park. :D

[@DominicClifton]

Kettle of fish!!!! 7:19

[@crowguy506]

This must be the most British machine ever.

[@v8snail]

It was invented by a Kiwi...

[@johnruschulte4891]

This reminds me of good old E.R.N.I.E. different but similar.

[@AMPProf]

The Museum will soon Need a time Crystal btw

[@Sir-Dexter]

nice

[@Scodiddly]

Always amusing that "wagering" scenes in movies have a lot of people shouting and waving cash... this seems like a much more genteel approach. Would love to see some movie give this system the Enigma treatment.

[@Flyingdinosaur69]

Sounds like the fairest type of gambling. No wonder the government and betting agencies wanted it banned hahah

[@jamier.6634]

In Australia the state governments are the sole operators of such gambling.. so no problem here.

[@barrieshepherd7694]

@@jamier.6634 Yep they are pretty annoyed about online betting outfits and used to (maybe still do) block their internet domains within Australia.

[@yanfishtwig2356]

Considering what a problem gamboling is for a lot of people i dont think it is a good idea to let Animals know that there are gamboling machines made just for them out there .. just saying sir

[@Flyingdinosaur69]

Freedom juice = WD40?

[@weapea]

Those were made The back old good days where they build things to last, not to broke tomorrow. If everything would today build like that, there wouldnt be no climate chance!

[@decree72]

how fair are gambling machines or is it a scam, in no way i would gamble with a machine, i dont gamble at all, i learned quick the bank always wins and i lose.

[@timlorlor6888]

Ace

[@dancoroian1]

Wait I thought that's how all odds were set...you're telling me it's possible for oddsmakers to lose money? Seems silly to think you'd be able to beat the wisdom of the crowd

[@THISMUSEUMISNOTOBSOLETE]

well you can go to a bookie and bet on anything, they come up with an odd, some places have no limit so yeah

[@AMPProf]

AHH yes MATHS the zreal reason No one gamblesss