Theodicy & Suffering - Sulayman Van Ael

Why does God allow suffering?
In this enlightening lecture, Dr Wim Sulayman Van Ael delves into the complex topic of suffering, transcending religious boundaries to explore universal themes of human responsibility and response. With a focus on Islamic teachings, he addresses the three distinct roles people play amidst suffering - those who cause it, those who endure it, and those who witness it. Dr Van Ael emphasises the importance of introspection, proactive efforts to alleviate suffering, reflection towards our collective roles and responsibilities and the significance of education in shaping a generation empathetic to the world's challenges.
This lecture was delivered on 20 January 2024, along with two others, as part of our Tea Over Books event​: "Sovereignty & the Divine".
00:00 Introduction
01:14 Perspectives on Suffering
03:16 Dangers of Blaming God
07:54 The Injustice Argument
11:05 Introspection & Collective Responsibility
13:35 God's Divine Decree
16:46 Humans as Caretakers
18:09 Survivors Guilt & Taking Action
18:54 Shaping the Next Generation
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[@lorenrazzaque9075]

We had the most phenomenal experience. Thank you for touching our hearts and relieving us of some of the suffering we have experienced as a result of the ongoing atrocities our Palestinian brethren are currently subject to. A hidden CMC gem. Please can we hear more from him in the future.

[@mohammedyacinebouacida1712]

Jazakoum Allah khayran Cheikh for this powerful lecture

[@Aisha-C]

Subhan Allah, that was wonderful.

[@mhtoure]

I really needed to hear these words. Thank you and may Allah reward you.

[@chehrazadeesmey8399]

Thank you very much indeed Shaykh, each of your words is a teaching by itself masha Allah.

[@valeriedeleon3578]

Beautifully well said. 🤍🤍🤍🤍🤍

[@user-it1ze4ts2l]

Veeery Insightful MaashaaALLAH...

[@m.vandervelden780]

A very important message for the young generation...awareness, empathy, ... and they are already walking along that road!!! Shaykh Sulayman gave directives for all. Barak Allahu feekum.

[@Uzair_Of_Babylon465]

Great video keep it up you're doing amazing things 😁👍

[@FA-em8rd]

That was a great enlightening speech. Thanks for that Dr. There was an interpretation in your lecture about the quranic verse:”fa’allun lima ureed” as god chooses whatever he wants. I would like to kindly argue that a better interpretation to this verse is Allah does what he chooses or what he wills. It makes a difference in the meaning as Allah choices or will are outcome of Allah Names. And of course you have greatly tought us about god choices later in the lecture. Thanks again Dr.

[@md.wahidulislam7800]

Alhamdulillah.

[@JaefarSABNW]

Suffering and hardship are not the same. No one makes anyone suffer, but themselves. Without testing, there is no reward or merit.

[@annelliot622]

Will the other two lectures from that event and the Q&A be released for viewing?

[@CambridgeMuslimCollege]

Yes, insha'Allah

[@infptrueself1275]

Allah wants to know our metal, what we are made of. He puts us through fire(metaphorically speaking) to see if we will be transmuated into something better or will burn into coal darken and break. Its a test. Through the Qur'an we see Allah has given us the examples of Sahaba how the where shaken but still withstand the test. Its a pattern that believers have to be tested so we know this is only a test and not a place of only comfort and happiness.

[@SufiaS674]

ASLM. Thank you for this. Which book is Dr Van Ael referring to in his talk?

[@CambridgeMuslimCollege]

walaykum as-salam , Dr Van Ael's publication is still in progress.

[@hana.xplorz_GB]

Ya Allah I'm tired.

[@pakistanzindabad9257]

Listen sura Rahman

[@bayreuth79]

What wisdom is there in the divine decree allowing the rape and murder of children? I do not think that it is sufficient to appeal to ignorance- or to equivocal predication, which renders all talk about God meaningless (if God is just can mean something completely other than what it usually means then the word 'just' loses all meaning). Suffering is a means to an end, not an end in itself. What does this mean? All suffering is a means to a divine end?

[@annelliot622]

It means that suffering, even the worst kind imaginable, is part of the human condition in this life, the Dunya, a fleeting nothing compared to the real life of the Hereafter (Qur’an 29:64). And yes, the allowance of suffering is from the divine wisdom. I could explain to you my understanding of why that must necessarily be. Most theologians seem to opt to say it's too complicated to explain in detail to the generality, which was the tone of this talk. I think one important aspect to bear in mind is that, just like the mental/physical effects of a terrible nightmare dissipate a few moments after waking, so will the suffering of this life be removed by entry into Paradise as is related in a sound Hadith, so that even a person who suffered the most extreme wretchedness will find that removed - even those who had been previously entered into Hell Fire, and those who lost their loved ones in the most terrible circumstances will be united with them and find them in the best of states. And we know that there will have been retribution on the final day of the Dunya for suffering inflicted or permitted or facilitated by other human beings. One may ask: can’t the effects of serious trauma only be removed by a deep and lengthy process of therapy, as is understood today? Perhaps the analogy of waking from the nightmare can be applied again - anyone who has suffered from nightmares knows how traumatic they can be. It is related from Sayyidina Ali, whom the Holy Prophet called the gate to the city of knowledge, that “people are asleep; when they die they wake up/come to attention” i.e. there is a whole new reality after death.

[@bayreuth79]

This is not persuasive. It seems to me that God is responsible for suffering (both 'evil suffered' and 'evil done') to the extent that he directly or indirectly causes evil. Since mainstream Sunni theology asserts that God is the _only_ causal agent then it follows that God causes all suffering. If such and such a person is suffering it can only be due to the causal activity of God, unless one wishes to affirm that any given event can be independent of God's causal activity. The Ash'aris absolve God of moral culpability by claiming that good and evil, right and wrong, are only subjective categories and God can do as he wishes in his creation. But surely that means that God is not good in a meaningful sense?