THEORY: How Time Travel Works in Harry Potter

[@KevinLohmann]

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[@mastersheldon1780]

Kevin Lohmann I’ve always wondered why it’s so dangerous to use time turners if you can’t really change anything and I think your the only person I’ve seen that has touched onto that subject, btw this was a good video you just got a new subscriber

[@emmamichelsohn7515]

I still for the life of me cannot understand how Future Harry saves Past Harry from the dementors. Because if Past Harry was kissed then it would be impossible for Future Harry to go back in time and cast the patronus. I've heard several explanations including the loop theory and the theory that time runs on multiple parallel lines - but no explanation have ever satisfied me or put my mind at ease. Out of everything in the series this is what bugs me the most (in terms of how things work and add up). In general, I stay away from time-travel plots because they twist my mind so painfully and never fully make sense. In this case, I think I could have found everything plausible if Future Harry hadn't saved Past Harry. I mean, it's like if someone was hit by a car and then goes back in time to push himself out of the way - he'd already be dead, how could he possible go back in time if he's dead? I don't see how there's a difference. And as far as Cursed Child - if JK says its cannon, then I say it's cannon. Only thing I disagree with JK on is that Ron and Hermione ending up together is just wish fulfillment - I think they make sense together. Though, I'll never be able to think about the Hogwart's Express sweets lady ever again. Also, when exactly was Bellatrix pregnant? 'Cause the trio would have noticed if she was at Malfoy Manner, and there was no time after, which means the Baby was presumably in the house during that time. I digress. Time-travel is weird, but the 3rd book is still my favorite.

[@KevinLohmann]

But Past Harry was never kissed. A dementor started to lower its hood to initiate the kiss, and that's when Future Harry casts the dementor. So no kiss was ever actually performed.

[@emmamichelsohn7515]

But that's the point. No kiss was performed - because of Future Harry's patronus! Future Harry should be a soulless shell. No one can explain to me how Harry survived long enough to come back to the past to save himself. (Thanks for the reply Kevin, liked the video even though I hate time travel. 😊)

[@wariolandgoldpiramid]

@@emmamichelsohn7515 That's just how time LOOPS work. They are literally a loop. Future Harry saved Past Harry. Then Past Harry became Future Harry, and saved Past Harry. And the circle repeats.

[@emmamichelsohn7515]

Haha, I believe everyone about loops and how they work - I still don't think it makes sense. I guess the answer simply is that it doesn't really make sense but it's used enough in story telling that people have learned to just accept it. Cheers :)

[@hads5279]

THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT KEEPS CONFUSING ME AND EXACTLY WHY I HATE TIME TRAVEL AND EVERYTHING YOU JUST SAID IS WXSCTLY HOW I FEEL AND I HATE TIME TRAVEL! On the chapter where Harry, Ron, and Hermione are visiting Hagrid, there’s already a timey wimey Harry and Hermione doing shit. Who are they? Where did they come from if Harry and Hermione haven’t travelled back yet and time is a closed loop or whatever? How do they exist? I! DON’T! UNDERSTAND!

[@TheScoundrelsCantina]

My head hurts because it's obvious that we as human beings are very limited and we simply can't comprehend a whole lot laws of time, space and matter. With that said there might be one loophole in your explanation. If harry and sirious would have died at the lake without harry himself traveling to the past, then how did harry travel back in time in the first place if he would have died without himself from the future. My head hurts. In other words how did the loop start without harry actually starting it since he would have died without his future self who also would have died without his future self.... and this goes on forever.... fuck what did i just do to myself. It's harmful for people to meddle with time even in their iwn mind 😂😂

[@annneo9293]

I have the exact same question! Its like, what happens in the initial/original timeline, or the one sequence that starts everything! Like how did the harry who cld save the other harry from dementors even survive in the first place when he was young? The way which i think can explain this may be parallel universes? But at the same time i seriously have no idea... also this idea of time travelling is kinda sad because it means that during the period of the loop (eg. From when Harry was saved by himself, to when Harry needed to save himself) there was no freewill and everything was already predetermined by what the future you would have done.

[@abeermuhammed3328]

I do have the same curiosity regarding that as well and thats why i am here

[@Sam-pb9mx]

Time travel is so cool but every time time travel occurs it’s so confusing and scary as example seeing harry save himself

[@Yk-mm6xt]

I am convinced about cursed child but I also was before because I had to read Shakespeare in school and we all hated it but on the last day of the unit our teacher took us on a surprise field trip to see the play and we all enjoyed it a lot more than the book. Not really related but kinda so I figured I would share.

[@KevinLohmann]

That is EXACTLY related to what I'm saying! Plays are not meant to be read as books. They are written with the very express purpose of being seen performed on stage by actors! Thank you thank you thank you!

[@Yk-mm6xt]

Your very welcome I highly recommend seeing the play I hope to maybe even see it a second time one day. That's how much I enjoyed it

[@ajwinberg]

Great video as always.

[@BioLivbanon]

Time travel in Harry Potter is no THEORY. It is very obvious and consistant facts. It is a predetermined type of time traveling. Think of it a bit like "Fate". It is also my favorite type of time travel, since it has the least plotholes! :D The most common (and kind of the most fun) type is the one used in Back to the Future. Anyone know of that movie?

[@dramaturge231]

Maybe I don’t understand this well, but if in single timeline time travel you can’t change the past, then why is it dangerous at all to use a time turner, meddle with events or go back far in time? If you exist in an immutable loop, you shouldn’t be able to effect change or cause harm.

[@KevinLohmann]

I think it's probably a bit of Ministry-produced propaganda. You know, still warning people that what they're doing is extremely dangerous even though the Ministry has regulated it to a pulp. That's the only explanation that I see being reasonable, given that they approved a literal child using it. If they trust a child to manage her own time travel, it must be nearly impossible to use a Ministry-regulated time turner for nefarious purposes. But with a non-Ministry time turner, like in Cursed Child, all of that dangerous stuff becomes very much so real.

[@hads5279]

Also if time travel doesn’t change anything, WHY EVEN TIME TRAVEL? There’s some key piece of time travel that just keeps going over my head, but the more answered I get regarding time travel the more god damn questions I have!

[@hercourdog5154]

because you could still be responsible for horrific things. even tho it already happened imagine if you were to blame for the plague or a war.

[@dramaturge231]

@@KevinLohmann hmmmm

[@itssubtr4ctisgoated503]

Hi is now on Gryffindor and on Gryffindor and on Harry potter and the sorcerer stone year1. And Harry potter and the chamber of secrets year2 and i have Harry potter and the sorcerer stone movie. In year1 and i have Harry potter and the chamber of secrets movie year2.

[@firehotcool]

You Wrong a multiple universe Harry rule not continue rule dragons ball z Writing is wrong other universe will not will not was never Two What if say no rule never

[@scylla019]

Closed Loop - Prisoner of Azkaban, Terminator Open Loop - Back to The Future, Cursed Child

[@KevinLohmann]

100% CORRECT

[@hibak8196]

"Let me convince you that Cursed Chi-" No. Sorry Kev 😂 Great video, really! I love how you explained legal vs illegal time travel and why the time turner Albus and Scorpious used behaved so differently from the one in PoA. I'm getting a lot of aha moments lol I still though don't want the illegal time turners to exist, like, ever. The amount of additional mess it could introduce to the world is ridiculous, and Cursed Child gives only a glimpse of that, since it isn't well written. Yet I _would_ have actually wanted to see a well written "what if illegal time turners existed", it's quite interesting.

[@KevinLohmann]

hahahahaha I knew I would lose some people with that opening line! I do hope you get the chance to see the play on stage someday. Because from the perspective of an actor and theatremaker, it actually is a fairly effectively written script. No, it's not the best story ever, but theatrically, it works.

[@Yk-mm6xt]

@@KevinLohmann I did see it and it is amazing on stage

[@hibak8196]

Unfortunately it is pretty impossible where I live, though yeah I do wish to get to see it sometimes. But great production and performance don't excuse bad writing.. Don't even try lol :3

[@BioLivbanon]

I know why. Because Cursed child is BAD and not a part of the Harry Potter franchise.

[@StasConstantine]

Here's what I think: the is no such thing as dynamic timeline time trave because The Cursed Child isn't canon. At least not heads-canon. Nox.

[@KevinLohmann]

In that case, we lose any explanation for the self-murder paradox presented by Hermione. Dynamic timeline time travel allows for such an instance. So just because it isn't seen in the original 7 books doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Even without Cursed Child, we still have the account of Eloise Mintumble on Pottermore, and the knowledge that the Ministry has specifically encased Single Hour Reversal Charms within time turners. So we know that time travel outside what the Ministry regulates is possible.

[@StasConstantine]

@@KevinLohmann I'll correct myself: the time travel that is presented in TCC isn't canon And don't worry I was just being snarky over my dislike of TCC and not overly serious.. I can't wait for your next upload, they are always a treat!

[@wesleyaquino8021]

Great video!!! I have a question i hope you can answer it. So in Prisoner of Azkaban Harry saves himself from the dementors. How is he ables to go back in time if he was supposed to die? There has to be a first timeline before they go back in time.

[@petit_point_noir]

Thank you so much for this, it does make more sense to think about time repairing itself and therefor Harry dies or Cedric becomes a death eater... I also think this might be why so many fans hate cursed child: they hate the idea that in the original timeline these things could have happened if something had gone just a little bit different - but in your theory, this is debunked as time basically repairs itself 'randomly'! The story in these books also makes more sense if you think about it your way! I never really liked cursed child, I just accepted its existence, but now I can get the idea of the story a bit more and accept it more easily :)

[@breaktheboxgaming7902]

I enjoyed my time spent reading Cursed Child and I've reread it a few times. But it's still kind of meh. ~_~ I don't mind the character and lore changes that were made(I thought Voldemort having a daughter with Bellatrix was a cool idea that was executed horribly, but everything just seemed like it had no thought put into it, past than the inception... Like Cedric becoming a Death Eater. . .The trolley witch scene. . . Harry telling Albus that he wished he wasn't his son, in the middle of an argument then letting the argument end on that). The screenplay reads like fan-fiction from fans that saw a movie or two, read the other synopsis' and scrolled through a wiki, but never cared enough to read the books or any extra lore goodies on Pottermore. I just wish J.K. Rowling would go back to writing novels. I'm still going to watch all of the Fantastic Beasts movies, but every second I spend watching them, I'll be wondering how much better they would be as novels. Oh and great video as always. Now I'm off to watch your, "Foreshadowing in Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban" video. ^.^

[@joaoninguemforever]

Bullshit. If the future and the past doesn't change, nothing explane about stone trough the windows, Harry Potter on lake at first time-line.

[@mikeDJLP]

Your theory videos are always some of your best work! This topic is also super interesting!

[@lusciouslipslibra]

Doctor who references during a harry potter discussion? My geek-o-mater has been filled for the day! Btw awesome shirt

[@hads5279]

When they were originally just visiting Hagrid with Ron, there was already a Harry and Hermione doing shit. Where did THAT Harry and Hermione come from? How did they come into existence?and where did they go after everything was done? I hate time travel. Makes no god damn sense.

[@Ohitsuji12]

Have you actually read the Prisoner of Azkaban?

[@KevinLohmann]

I mean, I try to explain this in the video...

[@matthewshort2639]

What’s your opinion, is the Cursed Child canon?

[@KevinLohmann]

JKR stamped the story with her seal of approval, and said herself that it should be considered canon. I always like to say to people, "Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's not canon." As for my real feelings, though, I find it a thoroughly uninteresting discussion to decide what is and isn't canon. And sometimes I think fandoms have started to take that discussion too far. When Pottermore first came out, the fandom was constantly clamoring for more and more and more extra information. Every single new piece of information we received, whether it was Pottermore or a JKR tweet or anything, was canonized and accepted. Slowly, though, more and more people started to not like the extra information JKR was giving us (not to mention her basic resistance to diversifying the universe canonically, but that's a whole other discussion). Now there's been such a shift in opinion on her doing so that we have started to take ownership of the canonization of material, which I just don't think necessarily belongs to us. At least not in the way that JKR has set up her world. I do believe that books belong to their readers, but when the author is making the universe a living and changing thing, I also don't necessarily think it's entirely up to us to say what is and isn't part of that universe. Just some quick thoughts on the matter. I may do a video just on canon culture someday

[@hibak8196]

I really don't know. This is so different from deciding something isn't canon just because we didn't like it. I imagine Rowling was like: "guys, for the millionth time, I don't want to write anything right after or right before HP- oh, fine, fine, do whatever you want and put my name on it. And get me some money. Just stop telling to milk this IP myself." I might not end up loving or even liking everything about Fantastic Beasts for example, but these are stories written by the author herself, a part of her heart and soul poured into them. They're professionally written, the world is well expanded, the characters are true to themselves, etc. That is canon. I might not agree with everything on Pottermore and choose to ignore some stuff personally, but most of these were things she had planned out while writing the series and couldn't fit into the story. That is also pretty canon. I don't know whose side I'm on.. So yeah.. Do make that video, please.

[@rustydaboyrobot]

The Cursed Child is a poor fanfic attempt to take the mystery themes of ALL Harry Potter books and change the genre. A story singly based on time travel is SCI-FI. The pitfalls of time travel are many, but JK did mitigate some of these issues is by the limitations set within the story. All things have always happened via time travel; there are no divergent time lines. The Cursed Child uses OTHER limitations, You can make actual changes to the past in The Cursed Child, that has NEVER happened before. The two can never be integrated because the premise are entirely opposed to each other. The Butterfly Effect removes the mystery; you simply keep trying till you get it right OR you create permanent damage to the present. You never, ever want the ability to undo CANON. So, The Cursed Child can never be canon. And as far as merit; no. Even if the Time Travel is OK, and it's not, the major changes to character personalities and core motivations are unforgivable. In fact, I could do a better job, which is rather sad. Lol. (But at least my degree is in Psychology with a minor in creative writing). Im a fan, but remain unconvinced. 😄

[@KevinLohmann]

You're so right, it definitely leans heavier into Sci-Fi than the core series. I would propose, though, that the two forms of time travel can actually coexist. And for that, I will lean on Pottermore again, and its account of Eloise Mintumble. If we accept Pottermore as canon, then we have to accept that there are different ways to travel through time. Because Eloise Mintumble changed the past in 1402 and so people literally vanished in 1899. They didn't vanish and then were forgotten; they vanished and people around them were aware of it. So in that case, not all things always happened. I think what it comes down to more so is that the Ministry found a way to create time travel that works in the linear way that we think time works. But time mustn't be thought of in that way for dynamic timeline. Time, at least as far as it seems to me, is conscious in the Harry Potter Universe, as exemplified by the fact that time itself stretched and shrunk perceptibly because of the damage Eloise Mintumble did. Time, when damaged, tries to fix itself and may significantly alter the context of your reality. Ergo, major changes to characters, personalities, motivations, etc. Like I said in the video, "time doesn't give a sh*t" haha

[@rustydaboyrobot]

@@KevinLohmann ok. So they can coexist. Maybe. But, the POINT of time travel in Prisoner of Azkaban was to introduce MORE MYSTERY. You cant say that about The Cursed Child; it was a device used to play revisionist history and to toy with the preconceived notions of who the characters are and will become. In other words, it was only a FUN excursion from reality.

[@KevinLohmann]

Sure, yea, I agree with you there. And I think that's an ok thing :)

[@Great_WesternTVFan]

If the time turner exists in real life, I will use that to speed my life through corona lockdown

[@ShadyAli17]

Back to the Future in my opinion made the best and only decent job in explaining time travel in cinema

[@KevinLohmann]

This right here is the truth

[@wellingtonsmith4998]

sorrry but the movie "Primer" takes a more complete view of time travel.

[@wellingtonsmith4998]

DFTBA And you didn't. 😁

[@KevinLohmann]

Yea, when I was editing this, I couldn't stop staring at the slightly menacing eyes of Pizza John. It was like I was Gatsby and the shirt was my very own Dr. TJ Eckleburg

[@wellingtonsmith4998]

@@KevinLohmann love you mate, but your brain is, uhhhh not exactly, well not 100% normal. NOT THAT THAT'S bad. I'm just, noticing...

[@KevinLohmann]

Oh I have a special brain, that's for sure... hahah

[@patriciametz1560]

The Cursed Child is only one possible future for Harry Potter. That is all I have to say about that!

[@KevinLohmann]

Very true!

[@atomic_nerd8682]

If any type of time travel defies logic and reson itself It can't exist and If It does it's only in our imaginations and is completally unreallystic thus Harry Potter's time travel outside from the prisoner of askaban can't exist

[@KevinLohmann]

I hear what you're saying, but I'd argue that such an anthropocentric view of time doesn't allow for all possibilities. Telephonic communication defied logic for millennia before we began the road of discovering and inventing those technologies. If we limit possibility to only what is within human logic and reason, then we're limiting ourselves as a species.

[@andylassiter8747]

Causal loops when short distance jumps are made and butterfly effect style time travel for anything past 5 hrs.

[@KevinLohmann]

12 minutes distilled into one succinct and pleasing sentence.

[@sociallyineptspider-man2366]

The cursed child isn't cannon My heart wouldn't be able to take it

[@KevinLohmann]

I take it as more of a personal canon these days. I just wanna let everyone define their own canon rules and just be happy with each other

[@theseeker2360]

Why did the fight at the ministry make them destroy the time turners

[@KevinLohmann]

I don't think they destroyed the time turners after the fight, but rather that the time turners were destroyed by the fight itself.

[@davidv2002]

still with access to this form of time travel why didn’t george use it to bring fred back?

[@KevinLohmann]

It's a common theme throughout the books that no one can be brought back from death, so I have to imagine something similar would happen here. Time would repair itself, and probably Fred would be gone again. A double trauma

[@davidv2002]

@@KevinLohmann but still cursed child doesn’t even follow the rules of time travel in HP, movieflame goes over this in his video about time turners