Necromancy and Dark Magic in LotR and Tolkien's Works - LotR and Tolkien Lore

In the Hobbit Sauron was called the Necromancer, but is there something like necromancy in #LotR at all? Can he raise skeletons? Today we have a look at what Morgul, Guldur or Dark Magic in The Lord of the Rings, its #lore and the universe of #Tolkien means. We will look at some examples from the LotR lore and the Silmarillion lore, but also see what Tolkien wrote about it in his notes, published in Morgoth's Ring.
Here's the playlist to the LotR book/film differences series:
• LotR Prologue Explaine...
Special thanks to Kimberly80 for her art - www.deviantart...
Mistakes:
-
Sources:
Books:
The Lord of The Rings (1954-1955) by J. R. R. Tolkien
The Silmarillion (1977) by J. R. R. Tolkien; Editor: Christopher Tolkien
The Hobbit (1937) by J. R. R. Tolkien
Unfinished Tales (1980) by J. R. R. Tolkien; Editor: Christopher Tolkien
The Letters of J. R. R. Tolkien (1981) by Humphrey Carpenter and Christopher Tolkien
Morgoth's Ring (1993) by J. R. R. Tolkien; Editor: Christopher Tolkien
Pictures from:
The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring (2001)
The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers (2002)
The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King (2003)
The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey (2012)
The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug (2013)
The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies (2014)
Shadow of Mordor
Shadow of War
tolkiengateway.net (best wiki)
Artworks and special thanks:
Kimberly80 - www.deviantart...
Maps by:
lotrproject.com...
Amazon
ThePhilosophersGames
The Philosopher's Games / TPhGames / TPhLore:
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[@ThePhilosophersGames]

Text is a bit wonky and it seems I had my tongue tied in a knot xD Voice recording took forever (Rhudaur (with a rolled voiceless R at the beginning) is easier to say for me than "uses this" xD). Necromancy and Dark magic is a complex topic and we also talk about the Barrow-wights (again). I hope you still enjoy this video. Let me know in the comments. If you haven't yet, check my LotR film/book differences series: kzbin.info/www/bejne/p5aQZZ9taadro9k Also shout outs to Kimberly80: www.deviantart.com/kimberly80 Mistakes: -

[@OrchestrationOnline]

Okay, so I think the flaw in your otherwise usually keen reasoning here is that you don't frame necromancy in the context of a refusal of Eru's Gift - which is that the spirits of Men travel beyond the limits of Arda after death (whereas Elves are bound to it, whether in Middle-Earth or Valinor). Tolkien's unspoken point is that necromancy is a form of trapping the spirits of Men in Middle-Earth, and then commanding them to fulfil the will of Morgoth or his servant Sauron (or Sauron's servants, the Nazgûl). To follow Sauron is to refuse the Gift of Eru. Those who fall under his spell, like the wild men of Rhudaur, rebel Númenorians, or the original inhabitants of the White Mountains, are susceptible to being denied the Gift and becoming bound to Middle-Earth as wraiths (like Barrow-wights for instance). Isildur's curse is absolutely a form of necromancy - but a reversal of the spell, forcing the followers of Sauron to be trapped in Middle-Earth due to their own vulnerability to being denied the Gift, until his heir should release them. But the dead of the Dead Marshes are not the spirits of those bodies trapped in Middle-Earth - rather, they're reanimated corpses, being reused by Sauron's dark powers but no longer holding their original identities. To further the point here, Morgoth's plan was to enslave and corrupt the Children of Ilúvatar. With Elves, it would actually be necessary to NOT kill them, as their spirits would then just go to the halls of Mandos where they could be healed. Thus, he created the Orcs out of captured and tortured Elves, forcing them to be thoroughly evil and under his command. With Men, he had a harder task; because while they easily fell under his dominion, their spirits could escape the bounds of Middle-Earth forever. So it would be in Morgoth's benefit (and especially as a rebellion against Eru) to try to interrupt the transit of Men's souls back to Eru. That would be the ultimate abomination. But the task was no doubt a complicated one, which is why we see Sauron working quite hard through the ages to come up with magical spells that would trap Men's souls and bring them under his command. The Nazgûl are his masterpiece in that regard, and the Barrow-wights are just a continuation of that domination. There's little doubt that had Sauron won, he would have instituted worship of Morgoth and the use of necromancy to collect souls until Middle-Earth was a wasteland of ghosts and Orcs.

[@Wolf-oc6tx]

I agree, that sounds on point for a evil plan by what amounts to demons.

[@yapyap333]

You are a living walking encyclopedia of Tolkien knowledge. Thank you for another interesting,thoughtful ,excellently researched video.

[@ThePhilosophersGames]

Thank you :) Sadly I forget so much, so I always have to re-read stuff, but that can be fun too ^^

[@gp6421]

Your great

[@xxsupersaiyansuttonxx3634]

Game of thrones is really something special but nothing will ever touch tolkien’s work, its just to detailed and it hits you somewhere deep inside. His work is magic

[@Yehoshua66]

George Martin would wholeheartedly agree. Tolkien inspired him in ways he can’t even express properly in interviews.

[@deanzaZZR]

In reading over the great comments I was reminded of the Mouth of Sauron who is described as a living man, yet a Black Númenórean meaning he must be centuries old. It's not exactly a case of necromancy but there's some black voodoo going on with this chap.

[@ThePhilosophersGames]

Yes, the Mouth of Sauron is quite a mysterious dude. He's also on my topic list. I think Geekzone made a very good video about him already, but I will make one about him too at some point.

[@Den.Vos.Reynaerde]

Isn't he described as a 'descendant of the Black Númenoreans'? I could be wrong.

[@MountainFisher]

@@ThePhilosophersGames He could wear a ring that belonged to one of the dwarf lords and would have made him into a wraith eventually.

[@OrchestrationOnline]

@@ThePhilosophersGames My favourite fan theory is that he is Eärnur, Gondor's last king, his lifespan extended through dark arts - which is one reason why he challenges Aragorn's authority - but as Tolkien says, he doesn't even remember his own name anymore. Not saying that's what Tolkien intended, just a fun fan theory. In all likelihood The Mouth was imagined by Tolkien as a descendant of Castamir the Usurper, which would also mean that he was descended from Isildur and actually closer in lineage to Gondor's kings than Aragorn. It would make perfect sense, therefore, for him to be installed as a puppet king by Sauron were he to defeat the armies of the West.

[@witchhazel4135]

@@MountainFisher Huh, now that's a thought!

[@DaRollinThunder]

Honestly, necromancy is one of those things in Arda I actually have trouble grasping so thanks for making this video.

[@ThePhilosophersGames]

Yes I know what you mean, happy you found it interesting ^^ Necromancy seems a bit weird in Tolkien's universe, but it's also a bit essential to the stories.

[@grantaum9677]

I never realised there was so much detail to this aspect of the lore, great job

[@ThePhilosophersGames]

Thank you :) Yes it's very surprising. A lot of it comes from his notes and unpublished (work in progress) essays, that he son published after his death in the History of Middle-earth books. It's sometimes difficult to find and piece everything together for a consistent video, but Tolkien was quite focused on details and a certain philosophy of his world.

[@grantaum9677]

@@ThePhilosophersGames it brings alot of extra flavour to the story for the magic. How Tolkien would marvel that its still thought provoking after all this time. You've inspired me to read those Morgoth books 🕉

[@ThePhilosophersGames]

Yes he would probably be surprised ^^ I have to admit, that I find Morgoth's Rings a bit difficult to read at times. You really need to know e.g. the Silmarillion well. But it's really interesting.

[@grantaum9677]

@@ThePhilosophersGames awesome, was kind of hoping that, love silmarillion!

[@TheCalimehtar]

Thanks for the video. I praise your ability to discuss such a complex topic in the legendarium in a very exhaustive way, with so many thought provoking topics brought to the plate. The quality of the comment section of these videos gives you credit too.

[@ThePhilosophersGames]

Thank you :) Yes I'm very happy, that I have such a nice comment section. Helps a lot (I learn here a lot to and get good thoughts). It also motives me to make good content ^^

[@X22-p4t]

I don't think anyone will ever be better worldbuilder than Tolkien!!!:)

[@ThePhilosophersGames]

Agreed ^^

[@jeffreyaguilar8028]

GRR Martin is good but this is full of mystery.

[@gilian2587]

I don't think I'd classify any of these authors that I'm about to mention as strictly better worldbuilders than Tolkien... but I like their worlds too: Robert Jordan, David and Leigh Eddings, and Roger Zelazny.

[@Kristalya]

George R. R. Martin is just as good if not better 🌞 I like the authenticity of Game Of Thrones 😊

[@pwmiles56]

Thank you TPG for a very thorough treatment of this topic. I agree with your definition of necromancy. The passage from 'Morgoth's Ring' (10:35) follows it perfectly. It says "They [the dead] will not speak truth or wisdom. To call on them is folly." There is a possible inspiration for this which Tolkien may have known from his researches for 'On fairy-stories' (1939). It is the contemporary record [1] of a witch-trial in Aberdeen, Scotland in 1597. The accused has his confession read back to him: "thow affirmis that the Quene of Elphen hes a grip of all the craft, bot Christsondy is the gudeman, and has all power under God, and that thow kennis sindrie deid men in thair cumpanie, and that the kyng that deit in Flowdoun and Thomas Rymour is their." ----- "You say the Queen of Elfland [the head of the witch-cult] is a highly-skilled witch, but Christsondy [another figure in the witch-cult] is the Devil, and has all power under God; and you beheld various dead men when you were with them, including the King who died at Flodden [James IV of Scotland, a notorious womaniser] and Thomas the Rhymer." Thomas the Rhymer was a Scottish knight who supposedly met the Queen of Elfland; there is a ballad about this which Tolkien quotes in 'On fairy-stories'. Because of his powers of prophecy he was called "True Thomas", hence (conceivably) Tolkien's words above. ------ [1] 'The Miscellany of the Spalding Club', Vol 1, Aberdeen 1841, page 222 in this scan archive.org/details/miscellanyspald00abergoog/page/n222

[@lydiaespiritu2752]

So Sauron clearly didn't summon any skeletons like a lot of us would picture a necromancer doing. The question I still have though is: could he? I personally, think the answer is yes. After all, just because he didn't, doesn't mean he couldn't, right?

[@Yehoshua66]

i feel like i’m his prime? absolutely. it must take an IMMENSE amount of spiritual focus and power to maintain animation en masse. during LotR he wasnt anywhere near his full strength and was surely straining himself to accomplish just the things that he did do. maintaining an undead army without the Ring was surely impossible.

[@Wimpiethe3]

Your videos are always worth my time.

[@ThePhilosophersGames]

Thank you, happy to hear ^^

[@dfailsthemost]

I always figured that the wights were only possible due to extremely particular circumstances. Like a specific curse playing out.

[@lukeskywalkerthe2nd773]

I find Tolkien's spin of Necromancy to be so facinating. In his works, he definitely emphasizes the communicating aspect of Necromancy through The Witch King, Sauron, and Morgoth (especially Sauron). It really goes to show just how much Morgoth and his servants truly marred the entirety of Arda and Middle Earth.

[@ThePhilosophersGames]

Yes agreed. It's really interesting that it's possible through his corruption of Arda.

[@lukeskywalkerthe2nd773]

@@ThePhilosophersGames I couldn't agree more! :)

[@lambielikesit]

Just in time for my Sunday evening! Thank you!!!!

[@ThePhilosophersGames]

haha yes, I hope you like it ^^

[@lowlandnobleman6746]

First day on vacation and one o these videos pops up! I’ve always thought it was nice that Tolkien included necromancy in both positive and negative ways. Beren and Luthien got resurrected and given a second chance at life. Yet we also get the more common, evil version of it as seen with Sauron trapping the souls of the Ringwraiths, denying them the right tae die. Personally, when I think necromancy, I can’t help but think o Lugh, King of the Irish Gods. He always comes back from death. It’s a pretty old concept, necromancy is!

[@ThePhilosophersGames]

Yes that's true. It exists in both ways (good and evil) in his world, good point. OK that's interesting. Need to learn more about Lugh ^^

[@lordbowler9054]

When Merry stabbed the Witch-King with his Barrow Blade, Tolkien wrote: "No other blade, not though mightier hands had wielded it, would have dealt that foe a wound so bitter, cleaving the undead flesh, breaking the spell that knit his unseen sinews to his will." This always stood out to me, as a reference to necromancy, so I was surprised not to hear it mentioned.

[@ThePhilosophersGames]

I talked about that quote in another video. By now I made so many videos I can't remember all details anymore 😅 I think for that videos I ignored the Nazgûl a bit (only talked briefly about them) because they are more like a special case.

[@bereftspud279]

Great video as always!

[@ThePhilosophersGames]

Thank you :)

[@mariapazgonzalezlesme]

So it's possible that Necromacy is a form of corruption over death itself and Morgoth is the source from such power?

[@ThePhilosophersGames]

Death itself is hard to cheat in Tolkien's world. Only those who refuse to go to the Halls of Mandos (or those who are not allowed to enter) are in danger to fall under this corruption. Else there need to be a transformation e.g. like the Nazgûl or a powerful curse like with the Oathbreakers.

[@jcpprojects1198]

@@ThePhilosophersGames in the dead marshes, are those elf spirits under the water? why are they still there and not the the halls of mandos? thanks

[@xXLunatikxXlul]

@FREEDOM LIGHTRIDER maybe it's never answered in the books?

[@helenavonlahnstein-makemor61]

Yay, neues Video - der Tag ist gerettet!!! 🔥

[@ThePhilosophersGames]

thanks/danke :D I hope you like it ^^

[@MWoodslore]

Don't forget Galadriel She Asked Frodo and Sam to Gaze into the Bowl of Water. Scrying is a Method Supposedly used By Nostradamus to see Visions of things to come.

[@undead4500]

This video is going be relevant to Death battle between Sauron The Necromancer vs The Lich king of Warcraft. Old school vs Modern Necromancers

[@tomivainionpaa8650]

Thank you for a very fine video ! I am just curious, as you led out the dead from the mountain that Aragorn was able to summon to help the King of Gondor and played decisive role in the battle. This was far more like the modern "necromancer" than any other throughout all stories of ME.

[@ThePhilosophersGames]

Thank you ^^ Oh yes that's a good point. I probably see Aragorn's role more as curse breaker with good negotiation skills in this very specific case ^^ But agreed you could also see it as necromancy.

[@Argos_RB]

I have a couple of ideas conserning necromancy in Arda. The Barrow's are located very close to Arnor and we see many times in the lotr, that the race of men, and especially the Numenoreans, seek eternal life, perhaps the Dúnedain of Arnor tried to experiment with magic, to resurrect the dead. Perhaps even aided by Saouron's spies, and like Sauron always does, he made it go wrong, and instead of loved ones coming back to life, their bodies where just used as vessels for spirits. That would explain why the barrow whigts can interact with the seen world, but the oath breaker's can't. I've always had the idea that a lot of things happen without getting mentioned by Tolkien. So perhaps the spirits were cursed like the oath breaker's, since the Dúnedain king's are known to be able to curse people. Or perhaps Sauron isn't the only one who can create Nazgull like creatures, maybe the Dúnedain found a way to curse the gold we see in the Barrow's like the nine rings are cursed, bombadil mentiones not to touch the gold. Just some stuff I've wondered about.

[@darthgorthaur258]

I always wondered who did the smithing of the morgol blades and if the whole morgol kingdom had weapons like that.

[@a.m.pietroschek1972]

In #TheHobbit Sauron pretended to be a lesser, local threat called the Necromancer. But, watering it down enough, we have Darth Sauron against Obiwan `Elrond & Crew´...

[@haidgu]

As alway, another great video!

[@ThePhilosophersGames]

Thank you :)

[@alliegamerbunny]

could sauron's necromantic power be considered a triumph over morgoth's power as a "reanimation of life" and a more powerful corruption of the essences or arda. if Sauron could bring back life then with a long enough time line he could bring back all that were and own all those who were ... just a thought

[@jacobitewiseman3696]

Magic just meant you do not know how something works. In middle earth magic is actually the use of ones fayare to have a action done. And magic was more of a support to make weapons more powerful. Tolkien was a devout Christain from the catholic church. The magic in the lore is called it by the Hobbits where they don't know how a wizard or elf or Aragorn does things. It is not sorcery because sorcery is based off of christain idea of sorcery which is drawing on energies of evil spirits.

[@andrewpaige1194]

I think it’s the other way around-the Bible took “Endor” from Star Wars. If u pay close attention, ull notice Samuel mention Ewoks more than once!

[@ThePhilosophersGames]

you might be one to something 🤔 it also says: a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away.... so before out time and earth

[@hrperformance]

Loving the background research that goes into these videos! This much take so much time but it really pays off i think. The bible sounds like it has a few interesting stories. Has anyone read and would recommend it? (I've read small bits that didn't really make much sense but seemed very poetic (go figure haha)). This was a fantastic video. I enjoyed it very much and I personally thought the text and speech was spot on! Everything was clear and well explained as always, but also the magic and depth of Tolkien's work is always apparent. Can't wait for the next one! :)

[@ThePhilosophersGames]

Thank you - as always ^^ The bible can be a tough (and work intensive) read. Some stories are really hard to get without religious, cultural and historical background knowledge of the respective time (and the times change a lot, because it covers millennia). I think it's somewhat similar to the Silmarillion in this regard, just even more extreme (it's still based on the real cultural context and as mentioned parts of it were written over the course of centuries and with this some context is simply lost). The stories also feel extremely compressed (paper was expansive I guess), which is similar to the SIlmarillion. I personally never finished the bible, but I tried and It can be really interesting. In a sense no other book has influenced the western culture this much.

[@hrperformance]

@@ThePhilosophersGames yes I can now appreciate why I struggled with it so much haha. Thanks for the reply. I learn loads from your videos. Many thanks!

[@craiger2399]

I think the spirits were elves, captured, tortured, driven mad, made to serve, and then allowed to fade over time (as elves will), into a spirit-like being. That's what I assumed all the wrath-like creatures not associated directly with ring ownership were. They are then sent out on tasks - assigned to places, objects, or acts, and left to do that. This would make their numbers limited.

[@gatheringstormstudio8420]

I mean I came across this channel and now listen to it like the radio... That just me?

[@ThePhilosophersGames]

happy to hear :) I only listen to it, because I have to while editing and checking for mistakes xD

[@UNKNOWN000247]

I have a question: the sorcery of Angmar started a a great plague against the people of Arnor. Would that be a reason why the Barrow-Wights were created? Or atleast, the plague was started using the Barrow Wights?

[@ThePhilosophersGames]

The exact origin of the plague is unknown. Tolkien hints (and I think most people think), that Sauron is behind it. I can't remember however if there are any links towards the barrow-downs. I would assume they are different phenomenons, because the plague happens before the barrow-wights arrive, quote (from LotR, Appendix A, Eriador, Arnor, and the Heirs of Isildur): In the days of Argeleb II the plague came into Eriador from the South-east, and most of the people of Cardolan perished, especially in Minhiriath. The Hobbits and all other peoples suffered greatly, but the plague lessened as it passed northwards, and the northern parts of Arthedain were little affected. It was at this time that an end came of the Du´nedain of Cardolan, and evil spirits out of Angmar and Rhudaur entered into the deserted mounds and dwelt there.

[@jojo45180]

This is another great video brother! The magic in the Legendarium is insanely interesting and makes me wonder if Sauron, at the peak of his power in the late Second Age, could rise an army of dead similar to Game of Thrones, but more like puppets, like the Dwarves at the beginning, before the coming of Eru.... And it's interesting the fact that Sauron could have created the necromancy (Amazon don't screw it up)...... And it's interesting that, acording to Myths Transformed, the Dúnedain can't live in Aman because they became some kind of zombie (!!!!!)........ Fëa and Hröa............ Your English pronunciation is improving..... Greetings from Argentina.....

[@ThePhilosophersGames]

I think his ability to raise whole armies must be limited, because he never does it and only has few specific, but very powerful "undead" servants. He uses orcs and controls them (to some degree) through his will and this seems to be very effective considering that he almost conquered whole Middle-earth several times. Not sure about if Morgoth/Melkor could build a puppet like army and control it. I assume it also has limits. Yes, but it's more like a thought expieriment, what would happen if Men would receive the blessing of Aman too and live there. But you are right: one possibility Tolkien explains would the spirit leaving the body and the body living on without it, becoming "Zombie" ^^ maybe an interesting topic for a video xD haha thank you ^^

[@jojo45180]

​@@ThePhilosophersGames about the experiment of the "undead" army, we share the same thoughts, and I like to see your video about the "Númenórean zombies" I'll been waiting for your next video.... PS: Something I forgot: Thank you so much for the subtitles, it helps me a lot....

[@ThePhilosophersGames]

I definitely forgot about that passage, so good that you remembered me ^^ Happy to hear that the subtitles help some people ^^ Probably a lot of mistakes in them, but YT allows to upload the text script and automatically fits it to the words, quite handy.

[@deanzaZZR]

Looking forward to the episode on the Barrow-wights. I think it's time to reread that chapter which does seems partially outside of the LOTR universe.

[@ThePhilosophersGames]

I covered these chapters so much in the last weeks (Tom Bombadil, etc), that I will make a short "break" from this specific topic for a short while ^^ But the video will come

[@darklordsauron398]

Morgoth and Sauron are the masters of dark magic,especially Morgoth.Morgoth create Orcs,Balrogs,Dragons,trolls,Vampires,Werewolves.Then Sauron created nazgul etc

[@ThePhilosophersGames]

Yes they "transformed" all of those (and some Maiar joined Morgoth) ^^

[@darklordsauron398]

@@ThePhilosophersGames yeah heared that werewolves,spiders and dragons are maiar spirits inhabit these animal bodies

[@ThePhilosophersGames]

Yes something like this (very mysterious). The ("giant") spiders are just Ungoliant's or Shelob's offspring.

[@darklordsauron398]

@@ThePhilosophersGames in shadow of War Shelob transform to a sexy woman that fact says that she is an ainur but Im not sure this is true

[@ThePhilosophersGames]

@@darklordsauron398 That transformation is probably a reference to her mother and maybe a bit herself. I think some kind of "illusion" and clouding oneself in shadows is what they could do. Ungoliant was however significantly more powerful than Shelob. It's not in the books or anything. And Ungoliant was not a Maia, but something different. I spirit being too, that took the form of a giant spider lake being. Ungoliant also bred with lesser (spider) creatures, so Shelob - her daughter - must be a lesser being too compared to her mother. Shelob is definitely not a Maiar and was not able to change her form at will.

[@PACR66]

Thanks a lot, really interesting video.

[@ThePhilosophersGames]

Thank you too, happy you liked it :)

[@keithjohnsonHelios]

Cracking video, thank you.

[@ThePhilosophersGames]

happy you liked it, thank you too ^^

[@thorshammer7883]

Do you think that JRR Tolkien's idea of deformed abominable creatures like Orcs, trolls, and other creatures made by Morgoth was inspired by the nephilim in the Bible who were described as evil abominations that which thought evil acts continually like the giants, evil spirits, and principalities mentioned by Paul? Tolkien was a knowledgable catholic so I can believe his monsters were inspired by the nephilim in some way.

[@ThePhilosophersGames]

That's hard to say. In the Hobbit orcs are called goblins, which have a mythological origin. Even the word "orc" itself has this component. Goblins then evolved in LotR to Orcs. It is possible, but not stated by him anywhere to my knowledge (I personally think it has more of a mythological component). Also if I recall correctly the Nephilim where also giants, while Goblins where not unusual tall.

[@thorshammer7883]

@@ThePhilosophersGames Well in a lot of tales giants that are similar to nephilim giants there's a high degree of cannibalism and blood rituals and orcs are pretty cannibalistic. What about the other creatures described by Tolkien like the werewolves and dragons?

[@ThePhilosophersGames]

ofc there are "dragons" in the bible too (e.g. Leviathan), but we also find them in all kinds of mythologies. Tolkien was for sure an expert on both mythology and the bible, so it's hard to give a definitive answer, when he has not strictly commented on it (to my knowledge). No clue at all about werewolves though ^^ But maybe be an interesting topic for a video (I would need a lot of research though ^^).

[@thorshammer7883]

@@ThePhilosophersGames Thanks for your thoughts.

[@thorshammer7883]

@@ThePhilosophersGames The vibe I get is that Bible refers to anything like mythological unnatural creatures like vampires, werewolves, and other things like that on earth or most pagan gods and demigods as nephilim.

[@countmarkula1993]

The Ainur were essentially admins.

[@ThePhilosophersGames]

haha good analogy ^^

[@jonathonfrazier6622]

Clark Ashton Smith wrote much about necromancers. That was early twentieth century.

[@ThePhilosophersGames]

Oh interesting. It looks he wrote about that in 20s and 30s and funnily enough Tolkien also wrote about the Necormancer around that time (first in his early Silamrillion works, then in the 30s in the Hobbit)

[@jonathonfrazier6622]

@@ThePhilosophersGames really good stuff. I recomend his collected works. No one else writes a story like C.A.S.

[@daillisst85]

Great video

[@ThePhilosophersGames]

Thank you :)

[@undead4500]

I want to reanimate this video through the power of necromancy xD

[@OrchestrationOnline]

9:45 "I would not consider the Oathbreakers." Big mistake.

[@ThePhilosophersGames]

They are cured and not summoned, so not part of what I defined as Necromancy for this video. PS: "Necromancy" was not the intend of Isildur.

[@OrchestrationOnline]

@@ThePhilosophersGames They are held to Middle-Earth after death by a curse and then summoned by Aragorn and commanded to fulfil a task. Read my longer comment.

[@ThePhilosophersGames]

From my perspective, Aragorn visits the Oathbreakers and offers them a deal, which they accept (‘To fulfil our oath and have peace.’). Aragorn has something they want and the Oathbreakers accept the offer. It's not like any other could learn to do that or that Aragorn has power over them. It's simply a deal.

[@OrchestrationOnline]

@@ThePhilosophersGames If the souls of the Oathbreakers had been ready to rejoin their creator Eru at death, accepting the Gift, there would be nothing Isildur could say that would affect them but empty words. However, since they worshipped Sauron and thus denied the Gift, their souls were vulnerable to being tied to Middle-Earth after death. All Isildur did was to force them to stick around under his command or that of his heir, instead of moving on and possibly facing a spiritual judgment before Eru. So they were very much under Aragorn's control, to be summoned and commanded. I get what you're saying about this being a bargain rather than any spiritual force of Aragorn's - but if Isildur had the ability to curse, that is a spiritual force. Aragorn's spiritual gift is to redeem, but there's more to it than just saying "I accept your offer." Aragorn would be acting as Eru's agent in the material world. That's my view anyway.

[@ThePhilosophersGames]

No Isildur let the Oathbreakers swear an oath and Eru accepted it. As King he could even call for Eru in oaths and in the LotR universe vows in general (esp. when calling for Eru) are not taken lightly. The Oathbreakers as the name suggests broke their Oath and this resulted in their form, leading to Isildur cursing them and Eru made it reality, becaue only he had the power. That Isldur as King could call for Eru we know from the Númenorean Kings and the time was dire for him too at times of the Last Alliance. Only Eru had the power over death like that. In the case of Gorlim (who was revoked to be summoned into the afterlife that was destined to him through the Gift of Men) we see a huge difference to the Oathbreakers. He could e.g. only appear in a dream trying to undo his treachery and was completely powerless. The Oathbreakers were still in a state that allowed them to fulfil their oath. This passage from the Unfinished Tales is connected to the Oath of Eorl: It had been held lawful only for the King of Numenor to call Eru to witness, and then only on the most grave and solemn occasions. The line of the Kings had come to an end in Ar-Pharazon who perished in the Downfall; but Elendil Voronda was descended from Tar-Elendil the fourth King, and was held to be the rightful lord of the Faithful, who had taken no part in the rebellion of the Kings and had been preserved from destruction. Cirion was the Steward of the Kings descended from Elendil, and so far as Gondor was concerned had as regent all their powers - until the King should come again.

[@donhoverson6348]

I am surprised when you were talking about haunted places that you did not mention the Dead Marshes.

[@ThePhilosophersGames]

I have an extra video about the Dead Marshes: kzbin.info/www/bejne/nV6cd2ejjN9_ZsU

[@otwk]

I'm pretty sure the only undead persons in the classical sense of revived dead are Beren and Luthien. That's quite funny I think. I think necromancy, the question of undeath and the power of the Ainur are some of the points where we see that in Tolkiens world, not everything is explainable inside the lore. Other examples are the "nameless beings" or "dark beings", sometimes under control of Sauron or sometimes not, that are often mentioned, but never take part in any story (unless Ungolianth counts among them); or the fact that if dead elves are reincarnated in Aman, most of the Silmarillion probably would've never happened, since Finwe's death would have been meaningless.

[@ThePhilosophersGames]

haha yes, that's actually funny ^^ You are right, some parts stay mysterious and I think that's good. But I would love to know more about the Nameless Things xD

[@palantir135]

Aragorn summoned the death, cursed they may be but they are very dead. I don't know If you've read Babel-17 by Samual Delany. Spaceship captains need to know how to communicate with the dead because that are needed for space traveling. Very good book by the way.

[@ThePhilosophersGames]

Oh yes a good point. But they were in this from already I guess with or without Aragorn summoning them and no other could have summoned them either, because they are tied to Isildur's heir and his sword. PS: no, but it sounds interesting. I check it out ^^

[@acheaenmt]

once again you're the man

[@ThePhilosophersGames]

haha thanks :D

[@CardboardArm]

Do you think there is a link between necromancy and werewolves? The silmarilion describes werewolves as wolves with a spirit inserted into them. This sounds very familiar to the Barrow Wights and the other undead mentioned here.

[@ThePhilosophersGames]

I mean the werewolves were connected to Sauron (in The Hobbit he is called the Necromancer), so I would say yes. Interestingly the same is said about Dragons too, but they were formed by Morgoth.

[@lawrencegillies]

Do you connect the Barrow-wights with the residents of the Dead Marshes?

[@ThePhilosophersGames]

It's a theory, but I think both are different. Considering how they are described and behave, they seem to be not the same.

[@OrchestrationOnline]

7:00 You seem to be assuming that the Halls of Mandos are where dead Men go. That is wrong. That is where dead Elves go. The spirits of Men go to a place beyond the knowledge of the Valar. That is their Gift.

[@ThePhilosophersGames]

Yes, there are indications that Men go to the Halls of Mandos too for some time and then after that beyond those into an unknown future (Gift of Men). E.g.quote from the Silmarillion: "Therefore he summoned Beren, and even as Lúthien had spoken in the hour of his death they met again beyond the Western Sea." and a bit later in this passage: "For the spirit of Beren at her bidding tarried in the halls of Mandos, unwilling to leave the world, until Lúthien came to say her last farewell upon the dim shores of the Outer Sea, whence Men that die set out never to return."

[@OrchestrationOnline]

@@ThePhilosophersGames That is one Man, whose fate was intertwined with an Elf/Maia. Not Men in general. But this is a minor point. Read my longer comment.

[@ThePhilosophersGames]

Here's another quote: "But Men were more frail, more easily slain by weapon or mischance, and less easily healed; subject to sickness and many ills; and they grew old and died. What may befall their spirits after death the Elves know not. Some say that they too go to the halls of Mandos; but their place of waiting there is not that of the Elves, and Mandos under Ilúvatar alone save Manwë knows whither they go after the time of recollection in those silent halls beside the Outer Sea." Beren is in the books and he was a man who died. His revival came after the death of Lúthien who had to convince the Valar. So why should I assume, that Men do not go and wait for some time in the Halls of Mandos. So far you have not provided any source for your claim. I can understand that one would argue that Tolkien leaves it open, if Men go to Mandos, the Elves believe this and are our best source and in addition we know that Beren waited in the Halls of Mandos, so the assumption that men go there is from my perspective the most likely one, while there is not much evidence for the other possibility. One reason why they wait in the Halls might be, that Tolkien wanted to bring some of them back for the Dagor Dagorath, which he late also distanced himself from. That is easier to explain, when they are not gone from Middle-eath completely. If we look deeper in the issue we also find this in Morgoth's Ring: "Sooner or later: because the Elves believed that the fear of dead Men also went to Mandos (without choice in the matter: their free will with regard to death was taken away). There they waited until they were surrendered to Eru. The truth of this is not asserted." So there are definitely doubts that Men are going there directly, but that does not make it wrong and the little information we have indicates it. At least your initial post: "You seem to be assuming that the Halls of Mandos are where dead Men go. That is wrong" is indefensible and also wrong. A more correct phrasing would be: "You seem to be assuming that the Halls of Mandos are where dead Men go, but we don't know for sure." It's difficult to discuss Tolien's lore in 3 separate comments. Also you called me out of being wrong, so I answer to this. You must also keep in mind I get a lot of comments every day and don't read them in any particular order with 10 different topics discussed at a time.

[@OrchestrationOnline]

@@ThePhilosophersGames Don't take it too personally, my friend. It's not necessary to engage with all my counter-arguments. My disagreements are no attack on you and your excellent channel. I'm sure you have another video to work on. As to the Gift - it's pretty obviously to do with Tolkien's Catholic faith. The souls of Men have a greater destiny beyond the material world in his way of thinking. He couldn't very well frame the spiritual role of men in a way that was radically different or even blasphemous. So you have to think about how Middle-Earth is very much a spiritual world without overt religion or a redeemer. In that context, worshipping an anti-creator is the ultimate denial of the creator, and of course the denial of the Gift is the expression of that (especially in how the late Numenorians tried to cling to life and were afraid of death at the expense of life). Hence the vulnerability of Men to necromancy. The anti-creator Morgoth would have said "This world is all there is, so worship me and I'll make sure you're here forever and you don't need to die. There is no Gift." But the ultimate message in the Silmarillion (despite all Tolkien's denials of allegory) is that man's ultimate destiny is to be rejoined with his creator, beyond all the struggles of the material world, just as in Catholicism. Even if a Man died in Middle-Earth and their soul DID accept the Gift, if they had worshipped Sauron, would that soul be worthy of being rejoined? In my view, it wouldn't. So even there, Morgoth wins. Today, we have a somewhat secular view of the world, so it's harder to perceive Tolkien's utter horror underlying the worship of Sauron, but I think he'd find that the most unsettling outcome of all in his legendarium.

[@ThePhilosophersGames]

I did not take anything personally. I just explained why I'm not wrong and even provided the sources and an example with the case of Beren. It's one of the few insights into the Halls of Mandos we have and that's also what the Elves believe, who are one of the main sources for things going on in Aman and the Halls of Mandos, that we have. I don't see much counter-argument there. I only see your interpretation, which I respect, but it is not mine.

[@TheOnlyReynoldsWrap]

Didn't they called him the Necromancer before the White Council identified him as Sauron? It's intriguing how he initially got the title. Side note, I always thought that the role of the Barrow-wights were to protect the Barrow-downs because the graves contained those magical swords (which were specifically made to harm the Nazgul).

[@ThePhilosophersGames]

Yes was called so before, e.g. he was called Necromancer in the Hobbit book (the White Council story is not in it). Why that is is a bit complicated. It seems originally Tolkien also wanted the Hobbit to be part of his universe/mythology, but abandoned that relatively quickly again (his universe was not ready yet) and later re-added it to by releasing the Second Edition of The Hobbit, which has some small changes to the original release of 1937. However still some elemnts remained. And Elven King that had trouble with the dwarves, Gondolin, etc. Considering this it's theorized that in a very early stage of writing The Hobbit, it was actually set in Beleriand during the First Age. The Elven King would then be Thingol (who had trouble with the Dwarves and was later killed by them) instead of Thranduil. The mention of Gondolin makes sense too as well have finding swords from there. And then we have an character called Thû in early drafts of the Legendarium/Tolkien's universe. He was a necromancer and Lord of Werewolves. And ofc Thû later evolved into Sauron. So it's quite fascinating how the early versions and drafts of the Silmarillion seem to have some present in the Hobbit. When Tolkien abandoned the idea of making the Hobbit part of it, those references to it remained and he could later reuse them. I would say that is definitely part of the function of the Barrow-wights too, but also to drive the hiding Dúnedain out of the barrows and ultimately defeat Cardolan.

[@TheOnlyReynoldsWrap]

@@ThePhilosophersGames Wow, didn't expect to get a response! Thanks. Anyways, it is interesting how all of this unfolded -- so thank you for the detailed answer. However, I want to know the Watsonian explanation (an in-universe explanation) on why Sauron was called the necromancer before his identity was revealed. As far as I know, he never performed necromancy when residing in Dol Guldur. You provided more of a Doylist explanation (an out-of-universe explanation). My dad read the hobbit to me when I was a kid (years before I read LOTR), and I remember being confused about this necromancer character since he had no significant part to play in the hobbit story. As someone pointed out before, the necromancer was probably used as a plot device so that Gandalf would leave the company alone. So I presume Tolkien never intended to provide an explanation for why the necromancer was called "the necromancer" in the hobbit, simply because he was used as a plot-device for the story.

[@ThePhilosophersGames]

No problem, I try to answer all my comment, but I lag massively behind right now (this month was really insane viewer wise). Thank you too for commenting ^^ Yes I have to admit I have no fully satisfying answer for the in-world explanation. Tolkien definitely wanted to use this to let the world appear bigger and as you say as a device for Gandalf to leave. My own speculation is, that Sauron secretly went to Amon Lanc, where Tharnduil and the Silvan Elves once lived and he potentially used necromancy and dark sorcery to drive them out of there an so it became Dol Guldur (Hill of (dark) Sorcery) and h as cause maybe known as the necromancer. Greenwood the Great became known as Mirkwood and there also lived other people beyond the elves, who I assume felt this change. Allt his probably led to this name.

[@TheOnlyReynoldsWrap]

@@ThePhilosophersGames Oh that makes sense! Thanks. Cheers.

[@jcpprojects1198]

hi, great work, i have a question, how did Sauron give and destributed the rings to the kings of men and dwarf lords? how did he actually go about actually delivering them or handing them over? i know the elven rings were not known to him until later. just wondering if there were back stories on how he offered each king and lord their rings of power. thanks

[@ThePhilosophersGames]

Thank you :) A very good question. Sadly We don't know too much about the process. After the war against the Elves, Sauron waited for some time (Nazgûl first appeared 550 years after his defeat). The men and dwarves, who may have seen or known him could be dead by then. And then he approached him, maybe similar to how he approached the Elves once. And men were easier to ensnare. I leave you the lines from the Silmarillion, which don't answer your question fully, but give a good impression about what happened at this time: Seven Rings he gave to the Dwarves; but to Men he gave nine,for Men proved in this matter as in others the readiest to his will. And all those rings that he governed he perverted, the more easily since he had a part in their making, and they were accursed, and they betrayed in the end all those that used them. The Dwarves indeed proved tough and hard to tame; they ill endure the domination of others, and the thoughts of their hearts are hard to fathom, nor can they be turned to shadows. They used their rings only for the getting of wealth; but wrath and an over-mastering greed of gold were kindled in their hearts, of which evil enough after came to the profit of Sauron. It is said that the foundation of each of the Seven Hoards of the Dwarf-kings of old was a golden ring; but all those hoards long ago were plundered and the Dragons devoured them, and of the Seven Rings some were consumed in fire and some Sauron recovered. Men proved easier to ensnare. Those who used the Nine Rings became mighty in their day, kings, sorcerers, and warriors of old. They obtained glory and great wealth, yet it turned to their undoing. They had, as it seemed, unending life, yet life became unendurable to them. They could walk, if they would, unseen by all eyes in this world beneath the sun, and they could see things in worlds invisible to mortal men; but too often they beheld only the phantoms and delusions of Sauron. And one by one, sooner or later, according to their native strength and to the good or evil of their wills in the beginning, they fell under the thraldom of the ring that they bore and under the domination of the One, which was Sauron's. And they became for ever invisible save to him that wore the Ruling Ring, and they entered into the realm of shadows.

[@jcpprojects1198]

@@ThePhilosophersGames thank you for a satisfying answer. there is a lot of room for artistic expression for the amazon show runners here. i wish they can deliver. to extrapolate from the book, if the Nazgûl appeared 550 years after his defeat in the war against the elves. he must have given the rings to kings and dwarf lords at very close time gaps to each other. with that in mind, we can almost assume these kings and dwarf lords were all alive at the same time at one point. who were they? who were the kings and lords around that time. just wondering. thanks

[@ThePhilosophersGames]

We don't know too much. We know one of the nine was an Easterling lord or king (called Khamûl). Three were Lords of Númenor (probably former King's Men/Black Númenoreans). So they are from groups, that we don't know too much about. The Silmarillion talks about that they became kings, warriors and also scorers with the rings. The others are not known. Gondor did not exist at this time. Same with Rohan. So they could be Northmen or maybe Dunelendings. Also Haradrim and Variaq (from Khand) would be possible. Dwarf wise teh number 7 would indicate that the rings went to the 7 houses/clans of the dwarves (Longbeards (Durin's Folk), Firebeards, Broadbeams, Ironfists, Stiffbeards, Blacklocks, Stonefoots). We know that Durin III definitely got one of the 7 rings (in some versions of Tolkien's writings published in the Unfinished Tales) Celebrimbor gifted one of the 7 Rings to Durin III and not Sauron. So Sauron only gifted the other 6. Also the dwarves became just more greedy, so it could have looked save for the others. In addition the rings were kept secret later on, but I don't know how Durin III handled it when he got his ring.

[@briandeluca4318]

Those are called the watchers and yes they have their own powers.

[@ThePhilosophersGames]

Confused, haven't I called them Watchers in the video? :O

[@diogenesstudent5585]

Why did Sauron try to pass himself off as a necromancer if he was trying to keep a low profile though?

[@ThePhilosophersGames]

That is a very good question. I assume it was not a title he gave himself, but he revived of others. An important detail might be that Tolkien also borrowed that name from early writings of his mythology, where Sauron was still called Thû and was "Necromancer". The Hobbit is full of fragments of old writings of Tolkien. Though that is more a meta explanation 😅

[@blueface748]

please more of this

[@ThePhilosophersGames]

When the new Tolkien book (with so far unpublished material) releases next year I will definitely revisit this topic at some point. It has a section about Elves immortality it seems, so that means new information on Tolkien's later thoughts on the topic.

[@toads13]

i'm very late haha but tiny correction: at 18:55 i think you mean Pippin, not Merry!

[@ThePhilosophersGames]

No problem. I think Merry has he dream. here's the quote: ‘What in the name of wonder?’ began Merry, feeling the golden circlet that had slipped over one eye. Then he stopped, and a shadow came over his face, and he closed his eyes. ‘Of course, I remember!’ he said. ‘The men of Carn Dûm came on us at night, and we were worsted. Ah! the spear in my heart!’ He clutched at his breast.

[@toads13]

@@ThePhilosophersGames oh! my bad 🤦‍♀️ i'm only today starting with the books themselves as i've only seen the films so far, so i figured it was pippin as he's the one who touched the palantir. sorry bout that!

[@ThePhilosophersGames]

No problem. Oh now I understand it ^^ Yes my choice of the picture was not that great here and confusing, but the passage I talk about, is not in the films (actually the whole chapter is missing), so I had to get creative with what pictures I show (in this case from the scene you described, but I just decided to show a sleeping Hobbit).

[@arjyadebsengupta8159]

Could you please explain the dead marshes?

[@ThePhilosophersGames]

Good that you ask ^^ I already made a video on this: kzbin.info/www/bejne/nV6cd2ejjN9_ZsU

[@bigblueminamiku3679]

Love these interesting videos. So, from the derivation, I'm guessing the most accurate modern depiction of necromancy would be Yennefer in the garden of Freya?

[@bigblueminamiku3679]

Also, I thought the Halls of Mandos were Elven purgatory (before being re-embodied in Aman) or am I remembering that wrong?

[@ThePhilosophersGames]

Yes probably ^^

[@ThePhilosophersGames]

You are not wrong. This topic is quite complicated depending on what you count as "canon" (which does not exist in Tolkien's works, outside of LotR and maybe the Hobbit as discussed in my video about canon). However it seems the Dwarves enter the Halls of Mandos too and wait there, but ofc out of reach of the elves. Men could also enter them for soem time (also separated from the others and then go to an unknown place). But the main focus of the halls in lore seems to be the elves.

[@bigblueminamiku3679]

Ahh...got it, thank you.

[@CesarRamirez-cn5fw]

Make a patreon page my friend I'm a trucker and I love listening to your videos I would love to help u out to put out more

[@ThePhilosophersGames]

Thank you, much appreciated ^^ I thought about Patreon too before, but not sure if I really want it. I really like the idea of fully free content and ad driven payment, but ofc when you make niche content like me, it's sometimes the only way. However right now I'm very committed and I can't increase my output further anyway. Right now I'm at one video a week, which was already a huge increment compred to before (I invest more time and became far more efficient at making videos this year). But I think making more is not possible without burning out on it and doing crazy hours. I'm not even sure I can keep up my current output, but I'll try. Never say never, maybe one day I try the Patreon route too (and let you know :P). Thank you for your generous offer. I have no idea what truckers say, but safe journey through the streets of the world my friend ^^

[@similaritiesendhere]

I think Sauron has to embue a portion of his strength into his most corrupt creations (one ring, Nazgul). The rest of his forces come from Melkor who had to do the same. The main reason Sauron is the most powerful Maiar is because he was embued with a potion of Melkor's strength from when he was corrupted. He cannot create infinite Nazgul although the Nazgul can create lesser wraiths. Even this feat probably has the same limitations. Even if he could, I don't think that Eru would allow it. That's a reoccurring theme. The forces of evil never become insurmountable throughout the entire lore. One Valr sailing East would wreck him.

[@darthgorthaur258]

Wasnt there an elf who did make it back to middle earth after he was killed an went to the halls of mandos ? The one who found Aragon after frodo was stabbed on weather top. I cant spell his name and always get him mixed up with Cìrdan.

[@ThePhilosophersGames]

Yes Glorfindel ^^ I like him. (I think) Tolkien also originally planned for him to take the place of Legolas, but he decided against it and created Legolas for it.

[@darthgorthaur258]

@@ThePhilosophersGames thanks for being cool enough to take the time to answer my questions and comments even when i put it in 3 separate ones instead of one like a normal person lol. I do enjoy discussing the different aspects with you from time to time when you see the comments ive left before there swapped by the thousands of others from your army of fans and grateful followers like myself. Keep up the amazing work and thanks again for putting so much effort in, it really is appreciated and amazing to see.

[@darthgorthaur258]

@@ThePhilosophersGames oh yes also wouldnt you like to know more about the morgol kingdom and there forging and that sorta stuff i think that would be really interesting? Dont you think? As for glorfindel why do you think he was specialled out for returning? Do you think tolken moved on from the idea or just couldnt find other ways that worked to have other great elfs return to ?

[@ThePhilosophersGames]

haha yes I noticed your tendency to post multiple comments. But you are not the only one ^^ No problem. I like interacting with my viewers and I spent a lot of time doing so. As long as it's possible I try to answer everything :D Much appreciated too, thank you :) Yes I would like to learn more about many details. Minas Morgul and what's going on there, the Easterlings and how they live in the far East, the V or the structures of Sauron's servants and armies in Mordor. Glorfindel sacrificed himself (fighting the Balrog) to protect the other Elves fleeing from Gondolin (in the mountains). He fell down together with the Balrog and both died. This circumstance "boosted" his spirit and purged him of guilt (the Noldor in Middle-earth were "rebels" in Aman). So he was re-embodied in Aman really fast. He's described as have gotten great powers and seen as an equal to the Maiar. Quote from the people's of Middle-earth: For long years he [Glorfindel] remained in Valinor, in reunion with the Eldar who had not rebelled, and in the companionship of the Maiar. To these he had now become almost an equal, for though he was an incarnate (to whom a bodily form not made or chosen by himself was necessary) his spiritual power had been greatly enhanced by his self-sacrifice. I think with this reputation, his noble actions in life and his new power he was chosen to go back to Middle-earth (he also knew the life there, the people and its perils too I guess).

[@sarikatimmi]

sorry i was just wondering about if the mouth of sauron was good at magic even though he was also just a man and it had me wonder why he thought he would become second in command after the witch king died instead of say kamul (i have to check sp), the other named nazgul?

[@ThePhilosophersGames]

He was also a Black Númenorean and had a very high rank. So I assume he was also very powerful, just different from the Nazgûl. He had the authority to speak for Sauron, which is quite impressive. Ofc Khamûl was 2nd in command among the Nazgûl too, but I guess Sauron had clear orders here.

[@ZzaphodD]

I think The Necromancers Handbook was introduced before D&D 3.5, even v2? Edit: Ah, yes... en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Complete_Book_of_Necromancers

[@ThePhilosophersGames]

I think as a "player class" it was introduced in 3.5. While the The Complete Book of Necromancers was a book for the DM.

[@adrazuel]

Endor is also the continent that includes the lands of middle earth lol

[@ThePhilosophersGames]

Yes true haha :D It's everywhere xD

[@adrazuel]

@@ThePhilosophersGames awesome videos, dude

[@ThePhilosophersGames]

Thank you ^^

[@nova_4168]

their are more modern necromancy examples (thats some good grammar), is raising the dead also the divination.

[@ThePhilosophersGames]

Yes I can imagine, but I'm not too deep into the topic (outside of LotR).

[@avozdageracaode816]

Eru: I am the creator of all things! Tolkien: B****ch, really?!

[@paulsandhu7313]

Tolkien’s stories are based on the Biblical history of Creation, particularly of the birth and rise of evil in Creation. Illuvatar is Jehovah, Morgoth is the Anointed Cherub, a high angelic spirit (Ezekiel 28) Sauron is Lucifer (Isaiah 28), Satan is the Dragon Glaurung, his offspring the evil spirits. This history is of course not known, or taught by organized religion, by filthy lucre loving churches that love gold more than Smaug loves gold, rather than loving God their Creator. The story of ainur (angels), elves (and especially of The King (The Lord Jesus Christ), all based on real Biblical and actual history not the lies taught in schools and churches.

[@randaldavis8976]

Read Martha Wells "Death of the Necromancer"

[@ThePhilosophersGames]

I look into it :)

[@darthgorthaur258]

Also did he not just burn out there bodys and control there fàr (or how ever its spelt).

[@ThePhilosophersGames]

The exact process of creating the Nazgûl is not know. To your other question: Steward Boromir (not the one from LotR, he lived 500 years earlier) was also wounded by a Morgul-knife (he survived too, but it shortened his lifespan greatly). So it seems the Nazgûl had multiple Morgul-knives, but they were probably very rare. We also don't know how they were forged.

[@ogately]

you mentioned endor from star wars but not endor from lotr

[@ThePhilosophersGames]

haha that is possible, I can't remember ^^ It's interesting that the name exists in Star Wars as well and we know Lucas wanted to include a The Hobbit reference (dialogue), so maybe it's a reference as as well? No idea.

[@riyazpatel5377]

I have More Interest in Witchking than sauron

[@isaiasramosgarcia9771]

si Sauron habiera! convocado a los Tumularios no haberia! perdido la batalla de los campos de Pelenor

[@brianhoff141]

I played play role-playing games in the 1970 to 1992 by ICE role master middle earth role playing gamess.

[@Argos_RB]

And then you play shadow of war, were any orc who kills you can get the ability to resurrect orcs, great game, but not applicable to lore lmao.

[@ThePhilosophersGames]

Yes Shadow of War takes a lot of liberties and made many changes, still a fun to play game. Made a video about it too: kzbin.info/www/bejne/j17Kp4VtntR9oKM

[@gilian2587]

GOOGLE... stop showing me earwax removal ads! At least give me the option to turn them off!!! I promise I will get adblock if you keep this up.

[@ThePhilosophersGames]

Yes I hate it too, when I get some of these weird ads. At least show me something useful or interesting. Much appreciated though, that you turned off your ad blocker. Thanks for that! I know it can be annoying, but it helps creators.

[@gilian2587]

@@ThePhilosophersGames I appreciate what the creators do. In court a judge can find a person in contempt... it's too bad we can't put certain commercials into a state where they are in "contempt" of the public at large.

[@Stabu]

You made a horrible mistake in your video. It's not "the annoying bell", it's "the stupid bell" - get your facts straight!

[@ThePhilosophersGames]

haha sorry :D

[@Nimunda]

I can’t listen to this

[@ThePhilosophersGames]

maybe the sound was muted?

[@StevieAF]

Love that accent!

[@ThePhilosophersGames]

haha thank you ^^