2019 Steinway's Flagship Concert Grand - Spirio R "In Depth Review"

Two months ago, I had the chance to play on a 2019 Steinway D equipped with their new "Spirio | r" system. The piano itself plays and sounds very nice, but I did find some issues with the Spirio system, and I learned some important things about it after the fact that I felt I had to mention in this video as well.
Here is the link to the great fellow who let me come to his house to review this piano!
/ @frazzledude

[@ThePianoforever]

It seems that there some people who have a vested interest in Steinway pianos are trying to take over the format of this channel. I, as always, state my opinion to the best of my knowledge at the time of making the video. I won't allow my channel to be used by any company or parties for their benefit. I have been threaten with legal action if I do not allow their rants online. I will continue to make honest reviews, and will not back down to Steinway, or anyone else in this matter. If they want to correct me, and show documented proof, then I will include that online. Followers who watch my channel know what I say in my videos are only my personal opinion, and nothing more, but I can't be threatened, or bought.

[@scottnokes]

James, "reputation" is the word you were looking for in the video. Reputation is everything in business. Steinway earned a stellar reputation, over 166 years, for making fantastic world-class pianos. Their brand recognition is unsurpassed in the music industry. However, the realities of corporate finances, and fierce competition with foreign markets are the root causes of Steinway's gradual self-destruction - not its dedicated and highly skilled employees. From my perspective, Steinway is existing off of their much-deserved former glory, and selling a product that is no longer industry-leading. It is a difficult corporate issue. Moving production to a country with lower labor costs seems inevitable, and will be a huge loss in the American music industry. Steinway's reputation is now as tarnished as the logo on that Model D. The finish quality on that plate/harp is shameful. A flagship model, especially one in that lofty price-range, should be as perfect as perfect can be. The piano does sound exceptional, which is a testament to the many caring workers that made it. The Spirio-R system, and the apparent corporate policy regarding it, are both disappointing. As a lawyer, I can tell you that you are absolutely entitled to your personal opinion. Truth is always a valid defense. One of the reasons I enjoy your videos is that you give your honest opinion of the good, the bad, and the ugly of each instrument that you review. I really respect and appreciate that. Keep at it, and ignore the naysayers. I have been an amateur singer for many years, and your videos have inspired me to learn a bit of piano in memory of my great-aunt Peggy Svendsen who played organ and piano. She played the organ at my wedding. I can't play piano worth a darn, but it is a lot of fun, so I better keep my day-job as a criminal defense attorney! Thank you so much for your wonderful and informative videos.

[@ThePianoforever]

Scott Nokes, thank you for your support, and background information.

[@MegaMech]

Wat? Steinway said if you delete comments they'll sue you? They couldn't do that. You're like a publisher you get to choose what is appropriate and not appropriate in the comments. It's not a democracy. If anything you can just make a new video telling us how much of a baby steinway is being, that they can do better and if you want show us their threat.

[@ThePianoforever]

The person who made the threat had a very limited KZbin channel that I thought, and think was just a shell to hide behind. They said that if I deleted their rants (my words) they would send it to the right people to start a lawsuit if I remember correctly.

[@MegaMech]

@@ThePianoforever ah, probably just a troll. They couldn't do anything.

[@rikspector]

James, That piano sounds so serene and emotionally charged. I could listen to you play it for hours. Cheers, Rik Spector

[@stevepailet8258]

The wonderful thing about your reviews is I am finally beginning to understand what sets quality instruments apart. The more I listen the more I can hear what you are describing

[@c3piano]

Such a bittersweet review and I applaud your integrity and honesty.

[@bikemike1118]

Very interesting insights in the second part of the video!! Thanks very much 👍🏼

[@ThePianoforever]

If you like music, you might want to check out my second channel "Milan Recording Studios". Feel free to subscribe and hit the bell icon if you want to! kzbin.info/door/u1LrpmWwK1ztTvIayRar9w

[@louisc.gasper7588]

I am a professional economist as well as a sometime pianist. What Steinway is doing is what every seller would like to do, which is to extract from every consumer the maximum price that particular consumer is willing to pay for the good instead of doing without it. The technical name for it is price discrimination. Explaining the analysis is not possible in the space I have here. Take my word for it that a critical requirement for successful price discrimination is that resale be prevented. You can probably see this if you just consider that a seller doesn't have the leverage to extract the maximum price from a customer if that customer is able to get the good from someone else, whether from another maker of the good or from another customer of the seller. Price discrimination is practiced by all sorts of companies making and selling all sorts of goods. There are two dangers to the practice, however. One is that the price discriminating seller is making more profit and, absent a serious barrier to entry, the prospect of extraordinary profits draws other people into selling the good. That's when you see the original seller making the most of his brand name or some other feature that the competition can't exactly duplicate. The other danger is that too much attention to manipulating the consumer takes the company's focus off its core competency. That's what happened to Baldwin. They discovered they made more money financing the purchase of the piano than they did making it. They branched into mortgage lending -- there are a lot more houses to be financed than there are pianos -- and lost their focus on making fine musical instruments. As mortgage financiers, they stank and could not survive when the housing market crashed. Steinway's core competency is not electronics, even if the electronics are restricted to recording the movements in a piano. The likelihood that they will do so well at the Spritzo system or whatever it is called, as to be able to extend their competence in it to other electronics is just about exactly zero. If they neglect their expertise and skill in piano making, they will have nothing superlative to offer in the market. That is the way to dusty death.

[@ThePianoforever]

I found your comments very interesting, and recommend that everyone Google " price discrimination ".

[@MrTedflick]

So true. Ignore their core comptency at their peril.

[@nomis204]

Ha, the "Spritzo system" 😂😂😂 Thanks for the chuckles. That's what I'm calling it from now on.

[@cyndi2342]

Thank you for that insight. I grew up with an excellent Baldwin. Many years, in my own home, I bought the exact same Baldwin model. The latter model never quite kept in tune for more than a week after regularly getting it tuned. I came across a Steinway K-Series by accident and traded the Baldwin in for it. What a huge difference. The Steinway K-series is considerably richer, but also louder. I finally paid off the Steinway and found it was a very worthwhile purchase. Some people buy cars....some get Steinways.

[@lostinbeauty7129]

Just absolutely fascinating, this whole video. What a mess! Thank you, James, for doing this. Keep up the good fight, and don't let Steinway, or anyone else, intimidate you. Now on to your most recent video on this issue! Can't wait to see what has developed.

[@ValseMelancolique]

I really enjoy your thoughts - Thanks!

[@lucyf9034]

I don't play an instrument, but I follow your channel since forever! Lol I really like your videos and you sound like a lovely person. Thanks for all the info, it's quite interesting.

[@zain4019]

Lucy Fe What a lovely comment:)

[@lucyf9034]

@@zain4019 😊

[@fishchrome1332]

This video is very enlightening. And sad at the same time. Thank you.

[@alanmarshall8850]

Thank you for being so “upfront” and forthright about the Spirio system and the quality control issues with that beautiful Steinway concert grand. I’m honestly quite surprised those issues would exist in such a high end instrument. Your honesty is very much appreciated.... and the review of the piano was, as usual, excellent. Many thanks !

[@jonathanchristopher1099]

I too noticed the dropped sound on the van cliburn piece as well as the not so accurate response on the arpeggios. I thought to myself that this was odd that you didn't comment on it. Soooo glad to realize this was only the first part of the video and that you actually commented on the lack that was being produced by the spirio system. I also was stunned at the idea that steinway suggested a tuning of the electric system twice a year. Either this was a money making scheme for the naive, or it was a lousy system that didn't have a tight calibration. Thank you...thank you for the 2nd half of this video. Good job young one!

[@ericzolaski457]

Thank you for your report on Steinway! :)

[@jimholmes4224]

My father had a similar system installed many years ago on a marvelous Baldwin grand. I don't remember the brand, but it was excellent. Interesting that Steinway is just now getting into this feature. I have not followed Steinway corporate politics as I own a Baldwin concert grand from early 60's - an excellent piano. Hope that fine old company doesn't screw up what they have.

[@1950harleycharley]

WOW...amazing sound!!

[@AL-pu7ux]

Their control of the secondary market is insane. Imaging buying a car where the infotainment only works for the original owner. But if you’re looking to sell your car it has to be back to the same dealership that then sets the price of the used vehicle.

[@wilkeseyberry26]

So cool I love it!

[@michaelnancyamsden7410]

That is why I adore you. You are gifted and worked hard on top of that. You have ethics or good ones. I made up my mine never to be bought. I admire honsrty and sincerity and talent. Be you. Like you decisions that I have read. still watching you videos.

[@ThePianoforever]

Thank you.

[@derricklam5674]

Thanks for your informative video

[@pamelaarescurrinaga3295]

Really an intriguing discussion. Facinating. Business ethics cover the full range of business endeavors.

[@capt.azzamganadily4892]

Thank you. I was wondering why S&S didn’t offer SPIRIO on the K models while Yamaha had them on the U1… Now I know I should buy the Yamaha DC3X ENPRO instead of well you know. I was baffled for a while trying to make up my mind. Thank you very much indeed. By the way I love your videos, you piano talent and your smile.

[@scottguo1222]

This honest and truthful review is the reason I’ll continue to be a loyal subscriber! Steinway no matter how good they are/were, will not survive long with this kind of PR, poor craftsmanship, and customer service. I’m in the market for a Steinway D and will definitely go with a used 20th century instrument. Thanks a lot for this detailed review

[@kylelandry]

This is embarrassing. Steinway needs to get their ducks in a row, and priorities straight!

[@boblon5693]

It all started to go down hill when the company started to believe its own marketing. I still don't know what they were thinking when they decided that pairing an accelerated action with long keys was a good idea.

[@Cyclically]

lol

[@dogsbody49]

Good on you James for speaking out. Steinway's customer service is appalling with regards the Spirio. Having paid the obscene price which they charge for a piano you would have thought the customer would be able to call the shots, but it seems it is the other way round. I wonder how their Hamburg dealership works & whether it is any different to the American side of the business? I can see people soon getting fed up with having to have the system constantly tweaked to keep it in optimum playing condition & just like many of the reproducing pianos of the 1920's will have the player action removed. Stand strong James over this matter & a huge thanks for bringing it to our attention.

[@GabsARV]

It's amazing that piano manufacturers are starting to add some technology on a instrument that has lived for a century.

[@davidbee8178]

@ThePianoforever - James, neither Steinway or anyone ELSE for that matter, can sue you for expressing your opinion here or anywhere else. I don't know how to play piano but I do practice law : )

[@ThePianoforever]

It is really sad what Steinway has become.

[@eronalmeida2904]

MARAVILHA!!!

[@timothysassoon1077]

The obvious correct way forward for Steinway is to simply CHARGE second-hand owners an administrative fee to change Spirio accounts, then do the work gladly.

[@ReflectedMiles]

Yes, but it depends on the desired effect. It may not be their intent for the piano to ever be sold whole. I know if I were building pianos and just wanted the "out there" crazy reputation, I would retain ownership of the last 6 inches of the harp (bass end, of course), leased to the original buyer for as long as that party owned the piano and, if it was ever sold, that portion would have to be unstrung, sawn off, and returned to the factory as it could not be rightfully sold or leased to anyone except the manufacturer. That would make buyers think twice about buying and sellers think thrice about selling.

[@USNBRENDON]

I do NOT agree! This piano was BUILT with SPIRIO from the factory! That means it should be WHOLE forever...at least in so far as anything electronic can remain fully intact and functional, alongside the acoustic instrument. If they aren't selling it that way, then they should ADVERTISE & SELL IT HONESTLY....which has no inherent value and adds nothing to the piano line and thus would not be an addition any sane purchaser of a ¼ million dollar grand piano would wish to tack on--and I'm certain they get a pretty penny for tacking on all that junk (which btw was technology licensed & rebranded in 2007 from the man who invented it largely in an effort to clone the Disklavier system in Austria). Steinway is trying--rather unsuccessfully if you ask me--to compete with Yamaha (and subsequently Bösendorfer) having the 2½ decade's old Disklavier system that is incredibly robust, very reliable and affordable. They're screwing up royally and this new private owner who purchased the former conglomerate in 2013 has clearly taken the 2½+ century old, award-winning grand piano manufacturer and has driven it damn near into the ground. Fit & finish clearly are suffering and if that be the case, then so too will acoustics and build quality. That much is inevitable. Throw in horrible customer service and it's a recipe for the death of Steinway. It is sad and it hurts to witness, but this situation has CLASS-ACTION LAWSUIT written all over it ....and Steinway would likely lose their asses if they were to put up any REAL fight; which I find rather ironic given that there is literally legal precedence set BY STEINWAY suing and winning upon appeal in 1975 the other former half "owner" Grotrian-Steinweg (Steinweg = the non-Anglicanized spelling & pronunciation originally attributed with Henry E Steinway or rather Heinrich Engelhard Steinweg of Germany) forcing their competitor to use only the name Grotrian in the United States. The case set a precedent and established the concept of Initial Interest Confusion, in which consumers might be initially attracted to a similarly named but lesser-known brand because of the stronger brand's good reputation. Haha. Now look at what Steinway is doing to that good name of theirs! Rather ironic. No?

[@jasonjmarchi]

Thanks for the honest review, sounds to me like Steinway is a company to stay away from these days.

[@thehousewhisperer6933]

Indeed. Buyer beware.

[@gleeweewee]

I was just about to put $1,000 deposit down! Glad I didn't

[@kylelandry]

@@gleeweewee still better to buy used refinished Steinway I think, or new Hamburg!

[@wawacool9147]

@@kylelandry Why newHambouurg? by the way i follow you since 2007^^i started piano because of you

[@mrghiorzi]

Hi James, discovered you today; really enjoy your videos. i had to comment on this one . . . I have a 1912 C. Bechstein Model B. It was restored and refinished here in Italy and the case looks great, however, the harp has the same "dusty looking" areas; one of the only things that bothers me about it. Well, actually the other thing that bothers me is that I want it regulated and re-voiced for the room acoustics an I cannot find anyone who truly knows Bechsteins here in Italy. I like my tuner, but he's reluctant to do the extra research and work on the piano. I still love it though, although whenever a guest wants to see the inside while I play they always ask about the "dust!" lol

[@kyuto6179]

Very smart review! Steinway makes world best pianos, but their service is worst ever! Here in seattle all the sales people are first very nice but if you postpone buying one for a long time since it is not shopping for your bags, they ignore your calls or emails. They will only contact you when you open your wallet! If you send them any inquiries, they ignore you even the manager. I was going to get spirio anyways because i need it for my recording, but thank you for your honest review. I will avoid it.

[@jml7916]

If Steinway keeps this up, Yamaha/Bosendorfer and others will quickly overtake them, not to mention the price difference. Good for you for sticking to your guns and maintaining your own integrity and reputation.

[@deftuner53]

FYI, The Spirio r is self calibrating similar to Yamaha disklavier, although you need the Spirio app enabled with the calibration software only available to authorized Sprio techs.The non-recording Sprio "Classic or "Silver" must be calibrated manually with special equipment from Steinway available only to Sprio techs. I am an authorized Spirio tech.

[@bandogbone3265]

Jim's test was mere days after an "authorized Spirio tech" such as yourself supposedly made the piano work as good as it possibly can. Perhaps the calibration procedure and tooling need some improvement, then auditioning the finished result with test pieces that deliberately exercise the behavior of the system to its extreme limits. If this cannot be done then the piano and, more importantly, the ongoing service, is no better than pornography, regardless of how expensive it might be. Steinway needs to come to terms with the fact that there are many very skilled amateur musicians willing to pay lots of money for the piano and service, as long as these are faithfully delivered. Sure, there may be some people who buy Steinways just for looks. However, as a D-owning skilled amateur, I think the company would do better to treat ALL of its customers AS IF they were professional pianists, as that is what we expect, nothing less, and we can't be fooled by slick marketing. The problem is getting out of hand, and we will probably look elsewhere for our next pianos.

[@user-ww2nq6tf2q]

Thankyouforvideosharing!pianomusic,👍👍👍🍎🍊

[@ThePianoforever]

So glad you like my videos.

[@moldenburg909]

Alright this is interesting. Good that you warned before because when the piano started to replay I noticed some flaws. Then you wrote that some notes were gone. But I don’t think I would buy a steinway player ( forgot the name) because of this flaws and because you can’t sell the piano anymore. And I liked your play more than the automatic playing. Your new test-piece is nice btw. I hope you host understands that honestly is your card. But if it is a friend he will do. Thank you for sharing.

[@ThePianoforever]

Thank you for your continued support of the channel.

[@moldenburg909]

Your welcome. 🎶

[@hairtiecoocoo]

I have a QRS player system on my Boston baby grand. I've had it for about 4 years. It works well but is very pricey.

[@thehousewhisperer6933]

In Vancouver Canada I have used most of the piano techs that work for the Steinway dealer here. They are very good techs. I've never heard them make a positive comment about modern Steinways. They complain about poor finishing and next to zero prep done at the factory. The techs have to completely voice and fully regulate before the Steinway's can even be placed on the showroom floor. Reminds me of the song "3 dressed up as a 9". I bought a new piano this past year and price was not an object. The new Steinway's I tried were very disappointing. Steinway didn't even come close to most of the pianos I played in my area. For me it came down to choosing between Estonia and Yamaha. I chose Estonia (beautiful fit and finish) but also really love the feel and tone of the new Yamaha's. You can't go wrong with a new Yamaha.

[@ThePianoforever]

I love the sound of the new Yamaha CFX pianos. I also love the sound of the Fazioli F228, 278, 308! You are also right about the new Estonia pianos, although I personally would not place them on the same level as a CFX or Fazioli, I would say that they have come a long ways in the last few years.

[@thehousewhisperer6933]

@@ThePianoforever Yes I totally agree. I'd love a Yamaha CFX or anything from the SX line. CX is awesome too for the money (I've owned a C2X and a C7X). I play an Estonia L190 currently but I do miss my Yamaha's. I've had my Estonia for about a year now and it needs some action touch up and voicing work. The beautiful factory voicing it had brand new is starting to get a bit woody sounding on some of the Renner Blue Hammers. My Yamaha C2X after 4 years required no voicing and virtually no regulation. I sold that piano in a moment of haste when I was down sizing homes. I miss it. The action and blooming tone on new Yamaha's is superb. Fazioli is top notch indeed....almost too clean of a tone for me. I had a chance to play a 308 and it was really awesome!

[@ThePianoforever]

The sound of the Fazioli pianos have changed in the last couple of years, and so I think you need to try a new one right out of the box.

[@prestige2000rider]

its sad to see a marquis brand spin into the unknown. The first concert grand i ever played was a Steinway .it left a impression on me to this day. Sad to see things may be slipping in such a way that Baldwin did not too long ago.

[@prestige2000rider]

I liked this vid best James because of your honesty and findings in this latest offering. Frankly i would rather buy a regular acoustic grand, and leave automation , software- midi etc to keyboards I didnt like disclavier or the baldwin system either, its not that it is not a good idea, But the need for it in this price tag and level of instrument seems excessive . An acoustic grand should live its life for what it is. And let the Musician concentrate on being a better player. Support for this stuff has a time to live by the companys who make it . As for storage , tracks etc Even David Foster , uses a good digital keyboard. for this purpose.

[@bandogbone3265]

I have a D and also an MP11SE, to not wear out the D, and for MIDI-to-VST, just as you described. Funnily enough, I also have an old Yamaha P-80 that I still use for keeping my Prokofiev 7th sonata in good shape, so I don't wear out the MP11SE.

[@benjaminsmith2287]

Weird to see a NY Steinway D look just like a Hamburg. But, quality control is alarming with this piano. Thanks for the honest review, James.

[@ThePianoforever]

Benjamin Smith, Always great to see you come by. I am afraid that Steinway is really going down the wrong path with this management.

[@benjaminsmith2287]

@@ThePianoforever That's very sad. This is an iconic piece of American/German culture. It's not only a line of pianos.

[@JeeWeeD]

I would say your version of Claire de Lune sounds more... jazzy is the word that comes to my mind! A fun extra to be able to hear the same piece played by two totally different pianists!

[@ThePianoforever]

I listened to audio recordings of him playing it, and it sounded totally different compared to how the Spirio system played it. Spirio played it very loudly, and nearly expressionless. Van Cliburn's version was much more soulful.

[@JeeWeeD]

@@ThePianoforever That's weird actually... And for some reason I have the suspicion nagging at me that that is due to the system and not because of how Van Cliburn played it when it was recorded. Still, it IS fun to hear two interpretations of the same piece, even if the first sounds very ... out of the book: playing the notes as they are written and not much more, no swung, no pzzzang, no... je ne sais quoi.

[@jasonjmarchi]

James! Come and review my 1971 Yamaha upright. I think it would be cool to have a review of a mid-range blue-collar piano like this that has a clear sound, none of that tinny spinet sound.

[@ThePianoforever]

It sounds like a nice series "Pianos for Working Man", or woman.

[@jasonjmarchi]

@@ThePianoforever That's precisely what I thought when I sent you the note; a wonderful series addition to what you are doing! I changed "working man" to "working person" in my mind, and then wrote "blue-color," trying to be PC.

[@peaceofkake1085]

You've always been honest about the standards you have for how you review pianos for this channel. If he is truly your friend, he will completely understand your position. As to Steinway, it's a sad issue as it has become an unethical company. When it comes to an owner, I think the company who needs to have the Steinway brand in it's portfolio is Casio. The reason is that Casio needs a brand that can bring it some gravitas. I honestly don't know how that company's line of keyboards are surviving as I don't know anyone who has ever considered buying one and when musicians talk about serious electronic equipment it's usually Korg, Roland, or Yamaha, never Casio (I don't think you've ever reviewed a Casio but I could be wrong). Even at the low end, I think you're better off with a Yamaha. I know that Casio makes more than Keyboards but I think with Steinway under it's belt, it would be taken more seriously and I will assume that their version of the Spirio system should work better given that it is an electronics company.

[@dadautube]

@peaceofkake: yes, true Casio is not a top-selling brand of electronic keyboards, not in the professional market at least ... (although i'd bring to your attention some Kitaro live and studio performances in which he does use at least a couple of really fine Casio instruments alongside other big names proudly!) and your somewhat odd but very interesting suggestion of Casio buying out the Steinway pianos company also sounds very legit as Casio, unlike Yamaha, has never made acoustic instruments while Yamaha, also a maker of non-musical stuff (such as motorcycles etc) apparently started with musical instruments initially ... (note Yamaha's logo for example: it's 3 diapasons crossing each other forming a star if i've got its graphical image right that is ...) and as you've also mentioned, as Casio's rather good at electronics, then why not take care of Steinway's (or anyone's for that matter) automation department ... and yes, you're again right how professionals in the industry go for Korg, Roland (and a few other obscure yet even more capable than the two just mentioned brands) or even Yamaha, which actually tries to beat the other two and some others big names by making and selling some really fine high-end synths and electronic keyboards at a lower price; something which Casio has tried to do as well, beating Yamaha and the rest at it ... :-) i am quite a fan of Casio, owning two of their old but really good keyboards plus a full mini-key synth already (as well as more in the past ...) but the problem with Casio is that its name's become akin to watches and calculators more than anything else unfortunately, which kind of ruins its musical image! (i was quite skeptic at getting myself a Casio digital musical instrument at first for the same reason in the 1980s ... but pretty soon i realized how mistaken i was after getting my first one!) :-) more on this below: however, that doesn't mean Casio has never offered high-end instruments ... in fact, it has, quite a number of times, and still does too; but the market of modern digital keyboards at affordable prices picking up in the 1980s and then 1990s (and continuing to this very day) has always ignored the Casio mostly because of its low price and mainly for the fact that majority of people, prosumers in particular, do not believe a 'cheap' device can compete with the more expensive ones really! (we've already had similar issues about a certain brand named the Amiga computer, which you may as well be familiar with already ... when the first Amiga came out in 1985 and broke the prices of already over-hyped and extremely overrated IBM PCs as well as Apple computers, by giving not only a much less costly device but also the best OS ((to this very day, with the exception of Linux!)) as well as some never before seen special custom chips available on a desktop computer system, majority of people kept ignoring it, especially because Amiga's maker, the now-defunct Commodore, succeeded in misrepresenting the Amiga as a game-machine rather than the 'serious' computer system it really was ... something that present day Windows-based computers boast off with the so many games available for that platform more than any other, while back in the day Windows was considered THE serious computing system designed for the serious and professional user ...) long story short, Casio's high-end machines are nothing less than the competition really and at a much lower price too! Casio also does a really decent job in its mid-range and even low-end 'toy' digital keyboards, which no other, not even Yamaha, the other not so costly system, does ... the other notable item about Casio electronic keyboards that i also made a comment about under James's review of a certain Casio instrument, is the fact that the piano sound as well as the speaker and amplifier on most Casio low-range keyboards sound WAY better than those of the Yamaha! which is rather odd, because it's Yamaha that's famous, so rightly, for its great pianos! _ _ _ yes, i remember Jams has already reviewed some Casio products btw, at least once ... :-)

[@zain4019]

dadautube Yep, nothing beats casios value in its digital pianos.

[@radiorexandy]

Unbelievable! Aside from the crazy policies -- yes, even shall we say, the self-defeating policies of Steinway -- it seems to me that the system has not been perfected and it's some sort of Rube Goldberg contraption that needs constant adjustment... Sure, a complex mechanism might be expected to need some adjustment from time to time but not every couple of months. Steinway should be ashamed of themselves in my humble opinion. As always, a very informative video.

[@ThePianoforever]

Andrew Rood, If Steinway paid more attention to making the world's best pianos instead of these crazy policies, then maybe they would still make the pianos they think they do.

[@silverxgt1125]

Going for the Yamaha Disklavier Enspire, maybe...

[@achillesmjb]

Steinway is owned by a hedge fund, Pauson & Co. I'm sure they look to cut cost above maintaining craftsmanship and quality.

[@kram21]

Which Bach pieces are these- very nicely done Mark

[@simonfj20]

sound do be peaking

[@amascia8327]

Well, I'm glad the "piano" worked OK...

[@vistastructions]

I'd like to hear your thoughts on this, but I think that ever since Paulson bought Steinway, they've shifted to courting the rich. Paulson in 2013 had installed PianoDisc on personal Steinway B. I think Steinway buying Wayne Stahnke's LX was because of Paulson's business and personal interests. Either way, although I recognize that this has supported Steinway's business tremendously, as an amateur I'm not comfortable with it. Player pianos make me uncomfortable.

[@vistastructions]

If you follow PianoWorld forums, Ronen Segev recently vented in a thread about how Spirio couldn't transfer to secondhand owners. I definitely think Steinway rushed this to market and maybe should rectify this lack of feature. Edit: you covered this!!! Sorry I commented when I was only a few minutes in. Are you on PianoWorld? I commented on that thread (I'm iObsessed BTW)

[@Czyszy]

13:50 the lick

[@patstokes3615]

I don't know how old you are but you look young to me, but everyone does as I'm 71. Regardless of your age you abilities are very impressive. Does the musical gene run in your family or is your ability just from really hard work. I'd like to know a something about your background and journey with the piano.

[@ThePianoforever]

I have been playing the piano since I was five years old and grew up in a home filled with pianos. My mother was also a piano teacher and so music filled our home.

[@nilsfrederking62]

Can you edit your MIDI recording later on with a MIDI editing program?

[@seanbryant2848]

Beautiful review! It is unfortunate that Steinway's customer service is so rotten; sort of the same as Microsoft and so many other companies now, all is based on "proprietary" technology that no one is willing to back up when it breaks, or when one wants to pass it on to another. What about if an owner of one of these systems dies, and bequeaths the piano on to a loved one? Is the loved one who inherits the piano stuck with a multi-thousand pound paperweight? Additionally, your observations as to the fit and finish of the piano, the logo on the case, the harp, are eye-opening! Bravo! Stay honest! You are an amazing and gifted artist.

[@pianoplayer2516]

Very cool! Are you sure that’s not a Hamburg D? It has rounded corners. Has Steinway started making their New York Ds have rounded corners. Beautiful sound!

[@ThePianoforever]

It's true, you can now get the New York Steinways with the Hamburg design. It seems that because the Hamburg models have always been considered to be the better piano, that now New York is making their models look like the Hamburg pianos.

[@bandogbone3265]

The fake Hamburgs will cause devaluation of the real ones -- just another aspect of this whole oxymoronic mess!

[@JeffreyHagedon]

@@ThePianoforever This revelation really saddens me. As a longtime New Yorker and current owner of a vintage 1932 New York Steinway C (semi-concert grand), I was a habitue of the hallowed Steinway Hall on West 57th Street. It was sold for its real estate value and they are now housed in a boring glass office building. I started my Steinway journey with a used M and temporarily up-sized to a Baldwin B but eventually sold it - a big mistake - it formerly belonged to Leonard Bernstein when he died - but I had an obsession with Steinway so I traded it for a new Steinway B. I was still not satisfied and finally fell in love with my C. I traded the new B for the 70 year old C! The Hamburg factory still makes the model C, but mine was one of the last three made in New York. The fact that they are now mimicking the arm of the Hamburg Steinway definitely weakens the distinctions between them. Steinway has been going downhill and they sadly seem to have picked up momentum.

[@AL-pu7ux]

My guess is they had extra satin lid props sitting around that had to be used up

[@CalvinLimuel]

Wonder how it would fare with a jazz/bebop playing...

[@roideschats8799]

it's a fun system. Well, it's a bit "Nosferatu atmosphere" (the piano playing by itself!)... but apart from that, it's pretty much better than records. It can bring (rich) people back to a more carnal contact with music. Even if nothing can replace the luxury of having an artist at home for a night, or for life... c'est un système rigolo. Bon, c'est un peu "ambiance Nosferatu" (le piano qui joue tout seul !)... mais à part ça, c'est plutôt mieux que les disques. Ca peut faire revenir les gens (riches) vers un contact un peu plus charnel avec la musique. Même si rien ne remplace le luxe d'avoir un artiste chez soi pour un soir, ou pour la vie...

[@michaelhirsch4251]

Can you imagine if an automobile company tried to do the kind of things we are hearing about here? Traditional companies such as Ford, GM, Toyota, etc. encourage the purchase of used cars, support them fully in their own dealerships and make parts available to independent mechanics. They also publish service manuals to help independents and individual owners service their cars. And they most certainly make logos available for repair. Traditional car makers love to have examples of "classics" on the road. Even Tesla, which is rather abusive to owners (no independent mechanics, car can be permanently disabled by remote control if not repaired by a factory authorized shop following an accident, etc) can be at least slightly forgiven since cars have only a limited life (a decade vs a century for a piano) and cars are normally insured by their owners. Even Tesla extends warranty and service to subsequent owners. They can also be forgiven, somewhat, due to the rapid evolution of their products. A ten year old Tesla is functional but obsolescent. Steinway has long claimed that used Steinways retain their value. They seem now ti be working hard to make used pianos valueless. My model M is nearly 100 years old, and I have no inclination to step into the mess Steinway is creating for its customers.

[@bandogbone3265]

My parents bought a new M for my sister and me in the late sixties when we were growing up. It's still at their home, but badly in need of rebuilding. I even learned to service the teflon bushings myself and did much better than the various technicians we tried -- none of them ever showed the level of care and patience required to get them to work properly. Anyway, I was planning to send the M to the NY factory, but maybe I should consider other options at this point.

[@PatrickDieterKlavier]

Thank you for your detailed review! Did Steinway replied, answered in any form?

[@ThePianoforever]

No.

[@PatrickDieterKlavier]

@@ThePianoforever UNBELIEVABLE!

[@imy0urpapa]

Hi James, You have mentioned in a handful of videos about the value of pianos depreciating. I agree that a piano is a machine and will experience wear and tear and therefore depreciate in its condition and value depending on brand. I regularly see used Kawai and Yamaha pianos for sale in classified ads for a few thousand dollars, a fraction of new cost. However...with higher end pianos such as a Steinway, they are still going for tens of thousands of dollars. In theory, shouldn't they retain a value close to their original price along with inflation? For example, let's say i paid $70k for my Steinway Model O today in 2020 and took care of it and maintained it for 30 years. In the year 2050, it is still in perfect working condition. Let's say in 2050 a brand new Model O will cost $140k with inflation. So wouldn't my used 30 year old piano of the same model be worth 70k (give or take) in 2050 money? 🤔🤔🤔 Of course this would be a bad investment for something like stocks or real estate, so I get that. But my guess is that the value would at least retain itself long term as in my example.

[@ThePianoforever]

Many piano makers proclaim that their instruments are "an investment", which is completely nonsensical. Pianos only will go up in value if they are exceedingly rare or special. Often times pianos are sold cheap simply because the owners literally don't want it and will do anything to make it be gone. Other times, a piano will sit on the market for a long time at its "proper" value, and the seller will lower the price over time to see if it will sell. Also, pianos continually improve with time, especially with the leading brands, so in 30 years, 2020's finest pianos would pale in comparison with the greatest that 2050 has to offer, making 30-year-old pianos worth less. Even today, you'd be hard pressed to find a 30-year-old piano for sale that rivals a new piano.

[@SarumChoirmaster]

YES! VERY BEAUTIFUL. Can it be hooked up to a Finale music program so that a player's recorded improvisation can be transferred over into Finale so that a player wouldn't have to enter every single note of an improve? Cost? Steinway is a dinosaur and no one like a dinosaur. A company should ALWAYS strive to make and keep a smile on its customers AND friends!

[@cc213t]

At 5:42, is that sawdust left over from manufacturing all over the pedal solenoids and keybed? Also wondering why there is bunched-up extra cabling visible; isn't this system specifically designed to fit this model of piano, with cables made exactly to length? Finally, those ferrite beads (the large cylinders around the cables near the connectors) aren't a good sign. They are usually added as a last-ditch attempt to mitigate EMI problems (high-frequency interference leaving the system and disturbing nearby electronics, or interference getting in and disturbing operation of the system).

[@vistastructions]

Ferrite beads are on basically every single USB cable like computer mice to suppress EMI, so they are so universal that are a non-issue. The cables aren't a big issue IMO: it's only if they dangle down from being too long that it becomes a problem.

[@DowellPiano]

Many concert grands have satin lid props, I think to avoid shining light onto the audience. At least the ones I saw.

[@TheFoo_Fighter]

I need an iPad Pro. Seems like I need to buy a Steinway

[@Nightyyou]

The Spirio System seems to be a great feature for recording artists. So they can focus on playing first and later do the actual audio recording. They could even record their piece several times which is especially handy if there is only one microphone around. Great information as always, James. :-)

[@Nightyyou]

OK, scratch that. I should have waited until the end of the video. I will check out your friend though.

[@joaovtaveira]

You removed the sheets stand.

[@thomaslotito380]

Wait, why won't the player piano play for the new owner?

[@bandogbone3265]

It sounds like there's a password tied to the actual personal identity of the original owner. Perhaps James can clarify this further if I misunderstood.

[@neilloughran4437]

I think you've done the owner a favour by highlighting the problems. Hopefully Steinway will rectify this... but I won't be holding my breath. I was shocked by how bad the Spiros system is and their business practices leave a lot to be desired. It was always my dream to have a Steinway and I probably would have gone for an old Model 180 if I hadn't just gotten a Yamaha C3X. I think Yamaha are really killing it (in a good way!) with their pianos...

[@ThePianoforever]

A video of a review I did about six months ago of the Yamaha C3X. kzbin.info/www/bejne/n4rPfYeMltiUj5I

[@thehousewhisperer6933]

The C3X's are fantastic. Good choice.

[@moneymarty1]

Excellent coverage of what is the proverbial thesis regarding great American institutions. Ignorant corporate boards that have their short-term interests at the fore and no regard for the legacy of veneration are despicable. Slimeway can go the way of Chrysler and other appalling corporate sell-outs where the few self-interested gut the companies of any vestiges of quality to satiate voracious gluttonous greed. Then - as in the case of Crapsler, find a string of buyers (Daimler Benz, and now Fiat) who specialize in peddling utter garbage badged as...well...newly repackaged garbage - until consumers wake up to the reality of their plight as having been cunningly swindled. That process has self-destruction written all over it. Eat, drink and be merry, for tomorrow we die. That my friends is the prevailing mantra of conniving short- sighted corporate America - with China, India and other infantile capitalist countries waiting in the wings to redeem us of our transgressions.

[@MiG2880]

We live in an age where everything is upside down and backwards. An age when instrument makers don't understand artistry... Where lies are the norm and short-term gains are valued more than human life. All of these symptoms, major and minor have one common root cause. What could this cause be?... Any thoughts?

[@bandogbone3265]

Usury. The pyramid scheme driven by usury has bottomed out. The only way forward (for the perpetrators) will be global depopulation, so they can then reboot the system and start over. Methods of covert genocide began in earnest with the creation of the UN in 1945 and are being pursued gradually and incrementally, so that we, the victims, not only cannot fight back, we're not even able to recognize what's being done and why. A handful of obscenely wealthy genocidal psychopaths treat the rest of humanity as merely another form of currency, to be inflated, then deflated as they please, in order to facilitate the flow of the world's wealth into their hands. Thus, we find ourselves on a short and dying branch of evolution. Don't worry though -- millions of years from now, new forms of life will emerge for whom all the poisons we left behind will be food.

[@patstokes3615]

I guess calling it "a player piano" is sexy enough so they call it Spirio. Just kidding.

[@matthijsblomjous3671]

i mean, the entire spirio system is cool and all, but who wants to buy an instrument that plays for you? what's the added benefit of such a system and the increased price?

[@Mr850man]

Better than cellphone speakers

[@The_Smith]

Let's not mention fingerprints on a piano . . . I saw Jeffery Straker play with the Saskatoon Symphony Orchestra last Oct. and the fingerprints on the piano were so distracting . . . like come'on have some pride in your work stage hands . . . And I'm not sure what the advantage to a modern player piano is? seems to me recording tech is so good that it is nowt but a gimmick? was nice to hear your second test piece again! that is a nice work. Hopefuly the owner understands, if he doesn't . . . well he's not as good a friend as you thought. Pax.

[@ThePianoforever]

I talked to him last night before the video went up, and he was fine. He is a great guy who loves music as much as anyone I know, just a wonderful person.

[@MegaMech]

Someone will just hack the Spirio app. If it's android or iphone it would be pretty easy to do so. Steinway probably paid as little as they could to the app developer so I doubt security is high. I think Steinway's build quality is going down. Or maybe the matt black pianos have worse actions than glossy ones. My college got a new Steinway and it was amazing. I go to university and their pretty new Steinway is terrible. It repeats notes, is too quiet, and the action requires a hundred pounds to play any of the keys. Also the matt black pianos scratch from fingernails really easy. Fingernails are like a 2 on the hardness scale, how does Steinway not use a finish that finger nails can't scratch?!? It would make sense too me. Do fingernail resistant finishes not exist?

[@richardhastings6082]

matte

[@MegaMech]

@@richardhastings6082 Close enough

[@Mr850man]

@@richardhastings6082 the guy that did the finish was called Matt

[@zogzog1063]

Steinway - Apple. No - just no. Put on your hi-fi and play 'Keith don't Go'.

[@ttrons2]

I prefer Yamaha. Glenn Gould's last piano was a Yamaha.

[@MS-kx9be]

Never preferred Steinway anyways. Sound is too clean. xD

[@Sasty]

Can someone tell me how to make 200k$ for this please ? (:

[@TM15R]

Looks like if you want the player feature, you might be better off with a YAMAHA.....

[@ttrons2]

Like a lot of one time great American companies the CEO engineers were replaced with tasteless and greedy accountants.

[@missingseattle523]

James, this is why Steinway won’t allow you to shoot in any of their showrooms. You give honest opinions of the pianos you play and they don’t like that. I was never a fan of Steinway pianos as I find their sound tinnie. Those pianos are all about marketing not about sound or quality. Keep being honest in your reviews. If anybody is interested in buying a piano don’t buy Steinway spiro buy a proper piano like a Bösendorfe or Blutner.

[@ThePianoforever]

A good Steinway is a great piano, but they are very rare outside of institutions and prestigious concert halls.

[@Tao201]

How about Bechstein piano ?

[@klavier1us]

The most shocking thing about this post, is an apparent ignorance of the basic facts of their own business model. Steinway has been competing with itself (new vs. resale) for it's entire existence. There isn't an iota of that that is news. In fact the company's new sales rest squarely on the number of long lived Steinways that are out there. The idea that anyone selling a long term durable product would want to deter resales is insane. If the company goes down this path unchanged -it is doomed. If you want to be thought of as the Rolls-Royce of pianos you must take your heads out of Yugo mode.

[@Cohunnamatta]

buy a Yamaha instead? I think if my interest keeps in the direction of piano playing ill just steer clear of steinway.

[@Lion_McLionhead]

If having enough money to buy a player piano actually required enough knowledge to hack around the manufacturer crippling, there would be a recession. Still a shame that a $1/2 million piano is so crippled.

[@swilkobarfingtoniii1642]

Steinway is starting to smell the same way Gibson Guitars did for a long time. Quality became a side issue, everything was about marketing and money. That's what happens when "bean counters" take over a musical instrument company. Gibson was taken to the brink of destruction. Their reputation for good instruments became a joke among musicians. It took a declaration of bankruptcy and the intervention of musician/ investors to revive it. And before that happened it looked like the Chinese were going to snap it up for pennies on the dollar. You can't be the only Steinway owner who has a problem with the direction that company has taken... Hopefully they aren't too stupid to listen to their customers.

[@ThePianoforever]

Many in my circle of friends feel that Steinway is presently on the edge of major change.

[@thehousewhisperer6933]

Steinway should do what Gibson did with Baldwin pianos and have them made by a top Chinese firm. New Baldwins are very good. Hailun's are AMAZING piano's. Steinway should get Hailun to build for them. Sounds funny...but it's no joke.

[@ThePianoforever]

Baldwins are alright for a Chinese piano, but they are a far cry from the legendary instruments like the SF10 and SD10 that Baldwin used to make, in Arkansas. They don't even produce a 7 or a 9 foot piano these days. Rather sad, honestly.

[@swilkobarfingtoniii1642]

@@ThePianoforever I'd put a 1960 to 1980 Baldwin SF-10 as one of my Top 5 dream machines. Butter. Very loud butter.

[@ThePianoforever]

I have a 1976 Baldwin SF-10 that I really played to the limits, not easy to do on a Baldwin SF-10, SD-10. I am afraid I just wore out the action. I still have it, but it stays in the house now. I hope one day that I will have it rebuilt to once again see it's former glory.

[@phillipholmes8834]

You play better than Cliburn. Who would want a stupid Spiro anyhow, it's a piano designed by a committee. But Steinway should be avoided. Too many other better peenaners, or good-enough peenaners for much less money out there.

[@benhassan11]

If people can afford these expensive pianos why don't they make an effort to hire a real pianist to come play it. By doing so they can help a real person make a living, at least put food on the table. As far as the Spirio system goes...where's Yuya Wang?

[@davidbee8178]

My thoughts exactly ! AND you can buy a Yamaha (or other brand) instead of a Steinway and not have to mess with a company that seems to be company oriented vs customer oriented : )

[@nomebear]

Living in a university city I found no shortage of music students who were willing to play my concert grand for a price. Some of the students used my piano to perform demonstration recordings and I was given copies as a token of their appreciation. My complaint about the playback device is that it plays back the music "exactly" each time. After some time the human brain becomes keenly aware that the music is exactly the same each time the music is played, it grows bored with the playback. My piano now lives in my niece's home where she loves playing it. It is her "joy".