Is Indonesia a Nation State

Go watch my next video early: nebula.tv/videos/thepresentpa...
Indonesia has a colonial history of over 400 years. But that doesn't mean Indonesia is immune to modern day colonialism. Or is it?
00:00 - 01:09: Intro
01:09 - 03:20: Dutch Go Home
03:20 - 07:40: Merdeka
07:40 - 10:35: Dutch New Guinea
10:35 - 14:29: Act of Free Choice?
Sources:
Pepijn Brandon (eds). De slavernij in Oost en West. Het Amsterdam-onderzoek
David van Reybrouck - Revolusi. Indonesië en het ontstaan van de moderne wereld
Piet Hagen Koloniale oorlogen in Indonesië: Vijf eeuwen verzet tegen vreemde overheersing
P.J. Drooglever Een daad van vrije keuze: de Papoea's van westelijk Nieuw-Guinea en de grenzen van het zelfbeschikkingsrecht 2005
Rodd McGibbon Secessionist Challenges in Aceh and Papua: Is Special Autonomy the Solution? www.files.ethz.ch/isn/26104/P...
Benidict Anderson imagined communities; is.muni.cz/el/1423/jaro2016/S...
www.theatlantic.com/internati...
apjjf.org/2011/9/12/David-Ada...
nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-bo...
pubs.usgs.gov/periodicals/mcs...
www.mining-technology.com/pro...
setkab.go.id/en/president-jok...
www.amnesty.org/en/documents/...
Hi there, my name is Jochem Boodt. I make the show The Present Past, where I show how the present has been influenced by the past. History, but connected to the present and fun!
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[@efanferdiantowibowo9610]

You forgot to mention, even tho West Papua "technically" were colonized by the dutch, they didnt actually do anything to that island. They just simply claimed it. Thats why papuan didnt share the same hate towards the dutch as the rest of Indonesian. In fact, most Papuan didnt really know that they were colonized as most of them lived in small tribes deep in jungle. Only some of them who lived in the coast met the dutch.

[@DKKchaneltryth]

penjelasan yang bagus . ( tapi itulah kenyataannya)👍

[@norbertdosa2016]

No he did not forgot, 8:15-" before this time they really weren't interested in this place", I think it cover the "they didn't actually do anything ".

[@terryapriyani3494]

Benar belanda melihat papua saat itu cuman sdbagai base militer di pasifik . Berbeda dengan daerah lain yang belanda ingin mengusasai hasil bumi. Jadi yang di bngun belanda saat itu cuman biak dan jayapura tujuannya utk mendukung base miluter mereka dstu

[@m.taufiq4705]

​@@terryapriyani3494 ya tapi ujung3nya sama biar kekuatan atau pengaruh belanda bisa tetap ada di situ

[@EdukasiPerpus]

western media hipocrit, aborigin in australia, native america in united state and kanada, maori in new zealand. the colonial state???

[@ascentimber]

The thing about West Papua being in Indonesia was that it did not have to be that way. The borders of Indonesia, though largely following the Dutch East Indies', was actually decided by Indonesian nationalist figures whom the Japanese had gathered into a body to prepare Indonesian independence (the BPUPKI). Meetings happened in the middle of 1945, and there were three main suggestions: the Dutch East Indies border, the Dutch East Indies border WITHOUT West Papua, or a Greater Indonesia encompassing even current-day Malaysia. While the exclusion of West Papua was considered, the vote for Indonesia encompassing the whole of the Dutch East Indies won out in the end. From then on, Indonesia would not compromise on the issue, and even embarked on some expansionism in the 1960s, in the form of challenging the formation of Malaysia in the Malaysian Confrontation, and in 1970s, by annexing Timor Leste.

[@ThePresentPast_]

Shows you how history could have gone completely different indeed

[@Maz-boY86]

@@ThePresentPast_ benar, sekali ada sejarah yg hilang , bahkan dalam pelajaran di tahun 2000 sangat berbeda ketika kita mengetahui setelah dewasa, siapa yg harus disalahkan ?? Pemerintah ¿? Atau penerbit buku ?¿ Bagi kami saat ini perdamaian yg utama, tiada lagi pertumpahan darah, sesungguhnya keserakahan akan menghancurkan keinginanmu

[@abcddef2112]

@@ThePresentPast_ It seems like he skip the papuan part in this as if they did not take part in this and just decided by Jakarta. Nicolaas Jouwe, a former papuan nationalist turned indonesian nationalist wrote many about movements in papua trying to join Sukarno's republic. Many papuan historians also wrote about this from Djopari, Merteray, etc. They also coordinated with each other which is why Dutch was blinsided when Kaisiepo suddenly say IRIAN in Malino conference. Ever since Denpasar conference the Dutch tried to divide Indonesia one last time, probably out of spite. If I cant have Indonesia, ill at least have New Guinea for indo lebensraum.

[@pincylakosi8832]

THESE KZbin channels are nothing but divide and conquer Western neo imperialists' propaganda. They try to play saints and angels now while their true motive is breaking up Indonesia, China, India etc. into mini countries that they can install puppet regimes they can control.

[@ascentimber]

@@abcddef2112 Because, as much as any one faction or another may desire to split or join Indonesia, it was and is the Indonesian state policy that determines how things will go. This is less about skipping and more about emphasis. Of course there are Papuans who supported western Papua being in Indonesia - the aforementioned Kaisiepo for example, whose face adorns the Indonesian 10 thousand Rupiah bill I use everyday - but the video talks of broad strokes, and the formulation of a state policy (official or otherwise) is more relevant here. What I find interesting is your use of "indo lebensraum", as if there was any parallel between NSDAP Germany's Generalplan Ost versus the Dutch colonisation of western Papua. At its most "colonisatory", the sparseness of western Papua was to be settled by Indos and Dutch, but that was before the Second World War and such plans were largely shelved afterwards. On the other hand, the Suharto regime with its transmigration policy to the outer islands was not too dissimilar with the Dutch colonisation plans, but with a catch: the Suharto-era development policy was Javacentric and not a lot for the outer islands, furthering regional discontent including Papua. Things could have been better had a helping hand been used instead of an iron fist, but that's Suharto's New Order for you.

[@whyblank]

As an indonesian I think, one of the biggest reason indonesian public don't want to lose west papua is that they don't really understand. Most of indonesian don't really know the history of west papua. We just know that, "The dutch was trying to hold the territory papua. But in the end, indonesia got papua". Other than that, many indonesian don't see themselves as colonizer but an anti-colonizer. Rather than thinking that they are colonizing papua, they think that they are preventing west papua from western imperialism a.k.a. Australia influence. They see themselves as a protector, so that the wealth of papua is not taken by western imperial. Btw, this is also the reason why some indonesian don't have a positive opinion on malaysia. They see malaysia as a sort of british puppet, so that British always have an influence on south east asia. Personally i hope that west papua will stay as a part of indonesia. But i always annoyed everytime my fellow indonesian, with out knowing anything, see papuan separatism as a backwater people trying to get away from indonesia.

[@snails6997]

I'm also Indonesian, and I will give you this. Don't confuse about the politic aspect and ethnicity aspect. We do have many ethnic problem. Many Javanese islander called Papua islander as "monkey", but you know that word also called to other islander like the Borneo and Celebes one too. This is a problem and ugliness about ethnicity. I directly know many people that in contact or living on the island themselves. Papua got many tribe. Tribes in shores have different culture than tribes in the jungle. Shore people in Papua island have higher exposure with modern world since the old exploration era. They trades with other islands even before Dutch come. Meanwhile, different thing happen with jungle tribes. Papuan jungle tribe situation is quite unique. They still in the hunting phase of culture, then jumping directly into industrialism. Skipping the farming phase. This makes them have different view in their culture. They dont use modern stuff since they dont see the use of it. They dont see the importance of school since they dont need it. The culture is simply different. This is a different in ethnicity. Thats why there is different view between the Papua themselves. Thats why the hard reached tribes still doing disturbance while the easily reach shore people already doing global level tourism like Raja Ampat. All of those ethnicity is simply dont work with political propaganda of seccession like the ones they keep pumping about Papua (or Aceh, or Ambon, etc). Many foreign actor try to plant the divisive views somehow. Its simply not about politic, its all about ethnicity. If their argument is about how the ethnics are different and politic measures must be done about it, then all Indonesia is a solid target with that. I mean, Javanese and Sundanese is clearly different ethnics too. Dont fall for it, sister.

[@kikijihan8316]

@@snails6997 I live in Java, never before I hear anyone called the Papua "monkey"

[@snails6997]

@@kikijihan8316 Same here. Neither do I. But those are the words of Papuan. I have an alumni on freeport that confirming the same. Do you remember of an old news about Opposition people who a bit contradictory with the decision to move the capital to Kalimantan? Some of them calling Kalimantan tribes as "Monkey" and gaining back lash from Kalimantan people. Do you know some of Sumatran robber prefer to rob trucks with Javanese plates? Do you know there is nasty terms like "Clan M", "Kuli J", Suku Debkolektor? Those are exist. I'm not even move into the races yet. Which is still many weird view regarding the minority, from the older generations. But if you need of direct contact about ethnicity ugliness, I remember the time when I took a taxi in Bali Ngurah Rai Airport. The driver said that Javanese people are being forbidden to be a driver in Bali. I'm living in Bandung. Bakmi GM just recently here, like some years-ish recent. The ramen restaurant with the name of a historical figure. After centuries of the red wedding he did, one restaurant with his name is opened here. Why do you think there is no Gadjah Mada name for a road in many Sundanese cities? Unlike many in Javanese cities? My point is, ethnicity problem is normal occurrences. Especially in highly diverse country such as ours. Even the advanced and developed countries like USA and nord countries have social problem regarding differences in their people. Tho, that doesn't mean drastic political decision is the solution. Doesn't mean a secession is the answer. Because its not political problem, its ethnicity problem.

[@wrsupra]

@@snails6997 loker bg

[@iramaenju1357]

@@snails6997 I'm an Indian, since you guys don't consider ethnicity to be a reason enough to not colonize a whole tropical island full of untapped resources I think u guys should stop complaining when India secures its borders as Jammu Kashmir is a part of India even though they r of a different ethnio religious people just becoz they r majority muslim

[@fish_birb]

This is a really insightful video, which I would say a perfect continuation of the series! As an Indonesian myself, I do recognize all of these factors in how we ended up oppressing the people of West Papua instead of _actually_ liberating them from Dutch oppression. The fact that you mentioned the ousting of Sukarno during Suharto's coup is I think the most prominent reason why we ended up oppressing the Papuans. Even though there is definitely a material interest in "liberating" Papua, Sukarno _did_ have legitimate interest in liberating everyone in the Indies from Dutch oppression, including West Papua. But after Suharto took power, him and his US cronies (especially Freeport-McMoran) definitely looked at the abundance of resources in the island and backed our country, under Orba rule, to annex Papua and do the "Act of Free Choice" referendum, and letting us to do all sorts of atrocities to the Papuans themselves till this day. However, my biggest criticism for you here is that you also have to acknowledge that no one is free of biases. I am glad to see a Dutch talking more about their own country's oppression of other peoples, but unfortunately I find some of your anecdotes to sound like some sort of lukewarm apology for what the Dutch did to the Indies during their colonial rule by ignoring the power dynamic between the Indonesian revolutionaries and the Dutch while comparing their atrocities. Albeit I guess you've constantly pointed out how bad Dutch colonialism was in this video (as well as literally doing an entire video about it as a previous episode). I do recognize my own bias as an Indonesian to say this, but that's one thing to consider. Anyways, really great video and I do really appreciate the fact that you mentioned the power dynamics of the Cold War as one major cause of the Dutch's relinquishing of their West Papua territory as well as our bloody US-backed anti-communist genocide during the formation of Suharto's rule. I also appreciate the fact that you also mentioned that we are starting to recognize our own faults and scaled back several Orba policies especially in West Papua, but I do think they're still not enough.

[@widyawatip2134]

komentarmu patut di up mas/mbak... aku melihat dia memang dari sisi neutral dan dengan data faktual. tp lebih ke condong menggampangkan, dan mnyederhanakan. seolah - olah yang dilakukan belanda itu bisa diterima for its justice.

[@kykale]

Thanks for the feedback! While assisting writing the script, this was my concerns to be aware of the Indonesian but also the Western bias when it comes to West Papua. For an outsider it’s difficult to grasp the situation in West Papua in which the outsider has to rely on sources that have a bias, which may not match with what the locals know. There was more to tell about the history that didn’t end up in the video. Salam dari Belanda! - Ky

[@fish_birb]

@@widyawatip2134 Iya sih, "menggampangkan" nya itu lebih ke arah buat orang awam pada mengerti kalau menurut saya. Ala Johnny Harris gitu, cm gak se-gampang dan se-beragendakan neoliberal seperti dia. Kalau saya sendiri sih, kalau pingin buat counter youtube gitu, sy pikir sy gak bisa jadi koresponden, soalnya ini cuma analisis kritikal dari saya sendiri, jadi saya gak bisa klaim jadi pakar begitu. Saya juga punya bias saya tersendiri dan kebanyakan yg saya tulis di komentar itu hanyalah analisis materialis historis dari saya tersendiri. Tapi makasih loh buat tawarannya 🙏

[@fish_birb]

@@kykale Glad you appreciate it! Of course, to be fair, nothing is free of bias. But acknowledging that is definitely something commendable to do especially for people who seeks for the truth in history like us. I am admitting we have our own bias as Indonesians within our perception of the situation in West Papua in general, so not even I have the best and most thorough assessment of the situation there. I thoroughly appreciate the fact that Jochem definitely has this mindset in making this channel from the first place.

[@podcastrojak5874]

Below Indonesia is Australia where white men stole the land of the black men which is similar to Papuan….and here a white man documentary …. Hypocrisy on the highest level…..

[@juanpisente7464]

Hi! Great video, just want to say a few to balance the perspectives out. One of my close friend is the daughter of a cultural and political leader in Papua, I talked with her before writing this. 1. The Papuans fought with the Indonesians during the War of Independence. It was under a man named Frans Kaiseipo, who fun fact, become the face of the 20,000 rupiah currency bill. Another is Silas Papare, both became National Hero of Indonesia. 2. The Dutch won the War of Independence. They destroyed the Indonesian Army. They left only due to economic and international pressure. Therefore, the Dutch have a major bargaining power, which results in them keeping Dutch New Guinea. There is actually a clause where the Dutch New Guinea status can be talked about in the future. This was later used by Soeharto as justification for the invasion as the Dutch also denies referendum. 3. When Indonesia invaded Dutch New Guinea under Trikora. Many Papuans fought with the Indonesians against the Dutch. Which includes Kaiseipo and Papare, again. 4. To say Indonesia wants to own Papua for its national gold reserves is kinda misleading as Grasberg Mine (the world's largest gold mine) is owned by the Americans via PT. Freeport. The Indonesian Government just reclaimed the mine in 2021. For years, Freeport becomes a symbol of Western exploitation in Indonesia but at the same time US' guarantee that the US will always support Soeharto's dictatorship. 5. The way General Soeharto's "sham referendum" works is that they do not fake the data unlike for example, Russia's annexation of Southern Ukraine. The data is real. What they did, however, is to give the tribal chiefs, lots of gifts "as a symbol of Indonesian prosperity." So the tribal chiefs (who have lots of sway in the villages and regions) convinced the people to vote for Indonesia. So you can say, they kinda do it on their own free will. Kinda. Debatable. 5. Today, majority of Papuans supported being part of Indonesia, especially during the current Jokowi government. As there is a lot of development happening. The PON (which is like a Indonesian national Olympics event for the provinces) was also held in Papua, which many Papuans saw as symbol of Papua's pride as part of Indonesia. My friend's family, for example, believes that an independent Papua or a Papua united with Papua New Guinea, is a nightmare scenario because of how corrupt the current local government (check Governor Lukas Enembe's corruption case) and how chaotic the Papua New Guinean politics (check Bougainville Civil War). I know this is very much against the American concept of "freedom or death." But in Eastern cultures, I found out that they prioritize stability and prosperity over freedoms, even if that meant, throwing away independence. We have to respect what they wanted. To say whether Indonesia is a nation state. Hmm.... It surely is interesting. Because although the Indonesians have different ethnicities, their 1928 Youth Pledge (Sumpah Pemuda) says that they are one nation. Not one country. Which means, they consider everyone to be part of the "Indonesian ethnicity." However, it is worth mentioning that it is true that in the BPUPKI (Founding Fathers of Indonesia), where they declared the foundations of Indonesia, delegations from all regions came to discuss EXCEPT for the Papuans. However, one could argue that Frans Kaiseipo and Silas Papare's fight for Papua to be part of Indonesia and how both is now an Indonesian national hero, is already considered as a founding father.

[@kikijihan8316]

This need to be pin up. We also need a view from the papuan themselves like this

[@kobodas]

really need pin

[@vincentthendean7713]

Yep. Indonesia hasn't been a Nation State since the age of sultans. The fact that the Dutch have held the entirety of modern Indonesia for that long means the people themselves aren't that hostile towards the idea of different people living under one banner.

[@bonked9426]

Finally a level minded comment in this thread.

[@sirihsirih4938]

Vincent Thendean. False. Majapahit is a Javanese propaganda hoax. Everyone knows this except Indonesians themselves. They actually believe that Java was the center of everything before the Dutch baptized Batavia. It wasn't, the Sultans and Rajas had their own autonomous Kingdoms. And especially Papuans never heard of Java before. They didn't speak Indonesian. Noone spoke Indonesian prior to early 20th century. Good luck with your Java-centrist propaganda ⛔🇮🇩⛔

[@namvu2362]

I feel like you glossed over _how_ Indonseia unified, so many racial components there that are missed out. It's easy to accomplish these goals when you work on eradicating cultures from your country.

[@Gabriel-l]

yeah... i feel that its sort of an inevitability with multiracial and multicultural societies.

[@ganevo4788]

That mean you never learn about Indonesia, we still keep ours local culture and language in ours own cultural community. But when meet different culture, we become Indonesian as bugger community that united each difference. Not like Europe who never see imigrant as their people.

[@bigguy3636]

And replacing them with minorities culture. cmiiw but no other countries are like that where the majority will step aside their culture in favor of a minority culture to maintain unity... Javanese, Sundanese, and Maduranese(comprising more than 50% of Indonesian population) speaks Indonesian that have origin from the language of the malays... A no way similar language as each forementioned ethnic group's own Compare that to other countries that keeps their each ethnic group cultures "strong" at the cost of society divided on ethnic lines and each election looks like the precursor of a race war

[@rvat2003]

@@ganevo4788 That is good but unfortunately, it's not given to the people of West Papua. We can respect Indonesia's unity while giving West Papua their long overdue independence.

[@abcddef2112]

@@rvat2003 why single out west papuan? The reason they are separated in the first place is because of race argument, it was supposed to be a lebensraum for indo people, this especially pushed by catholic party. The dutch did not want mixed indo in netherlands. This is why ethnonationalism flourish in europe. The nazi never completely died out apparently. Indonesian identity is proclaimed in 1928, including papuan. The identity above race, ethnicity, religion. (SARA) in Indonesia. The papuan delegates name and their descendants are still there apparently not considered papuan lol.

[@AverytheCubanAmerican]

Something you didn't mention regarding the revolution is the Dutch tried creating puppet states like Madura, East Indonesia, and Great Dayak to make it seem like the locals wanted the Dutch to stay (including a semi-military civil administration made up of indigenous as well as a pro-Dutch Chinese self-defense force). But of course, reality wasn't all it seemed, and this made the revolutionaries angrier. And yup, the US propped up dictatorships around the world during the Cold War (pretty ironic considering we love to talk about freedom and liberties). It's why when the Argentine military junta they installed invaded the Falklands in 1982, they took a negotiator position and attempted shuttle diplomacy. But the Argentines refused peace, so the US prohibited arms sales to the junta and provided material support to the British. Reagan also tried for peace again with proposing Argentine-British joint rule in a midnight call once the UK was reaching Stanley, but Thatcher stood her ground.

[@eleinaedelweiss6215]

Its not really a puppet state and more of "fear" of being a puppet state similar to malaysia. Which is understandable. In actuality its more of a differing opinion on how we should approach independence. Should we Indonesian be fully independent with all the risk of becoming a failed state, or should we stay incorporated as a new dutch province. Theres actually a lot of quote on quote heroes with such opinion cant really remember the names but you can google it by yourself Its kinda like brexit situation really its a mess.

[@gnombtw8931]

Uncommon Thatcher W

[@DipaTarigan]

Free Sumatera Fck Java

[@WallNutBreaker524]

You again?

[@abcddef2112]

Yeah west papua was at least originally one of these puppet state, the difference was since denpasar conference this was the supposed lebensraum for fleeing Indo people, the dutch did not want them in europe as they are mixed (not pureblood dutch). Among other things dutch hoped to control their interest in Indonesia by taking papua. West papua just days before denpasar was removed from amboina residence and the state of east Indonesia, its representative silenced (to the protest of Jouwe, Krey and Indey, who wrote directly to van mook). Since in Malino, Kaisiepo used this to say papua should join Indonesia as 'irian'= ikut republik Indonesia anti nederlands. The dutch was blindsided as their original representative the supposed 'amberi hating', silas papare, was involved in a rebellion against the dutch in link up with Soegoro atmoprasojo. Kaisiepo was instead also met up with sugoro in prison and manage to get the Irian idea out. Papuan nationalists is indonesian nationalists fighting the same common enemy of Dutch colonialism.

[@andrewlee4455]

Fantastic video! It sums up the situation in a really understandable way. Though I'm surprised you didn't mention anything about Timor Leste when discussing Indonesia's dark past. As an Indonesian, I am greatful that this issue is being presented from a non-biased point of view.

[@ThePresentPast_]

You're right. Timor Leste, Aceh war, theres a lot more history but you can't cover it all unfortunately.

[@Buzz727]

​@@ThePresentPast_ there is actually some part u are missing about west papua. the vice president of soekarno, muhammad hatta actually oppose the idea to unite the east part of dutch east indies. the reason is, because it is cultural different with the west side, but he lost and give up to soekarno's idea. after the war of independence, moh hatta attempted to make federal goverment just like the USA,,and make each province had better control on its own, but soekarno dont like it because it is not "unified" enough. and also soeharto was giving america the gold mine in papua(in exchange killing the comies), which until today it have small benefit to indonesia, it even smaller to the people of west papua

[@bryansmulez4672]

There was no dark past in Timor Leste like the western media portrait. In fact 300k thousands Timor leste were moved to west timor. And today West Timor (east nusa tenggara province 🇮🇩 ) has 5 times bigger its GDP compared with East Timor. The province is also has 92% Christians (5 million people). whole PAPUA indonesia provinces are also 5 Times more richer by GDP compare to New Guinea.

[@minecraftlover8085]

@@bryansmulez4672 Even though the Indonesian side perhaps has a better quality of life you can't deny the fact that some dark things happened here in Timor-Leste. Living here as a Timorense I hear many people (my dad included) talk about this dark past. Well what happened, happened and this is just the way it is now

[@bryansmulez4672]

@@minecraftlover8085 Blame imperialism did by Australia and Portugal those who supported timor leste. In fact until now 1,3 million timor leste people are still poor because Aussie and allies stole their oil. Dark Past in Timor Leste can not compare what was happened in whole indonesia during that time 1998-2002 (ethics conflicts, Religion Conflicts etc.) It was the great reformation for Indonesia after SOEHARTO down.

[@SonyThamrin]

The Indonesian government has done many things to develop Papua Province. They also took over shares in the Freeport (US) gold mine, and the money was given to the local Papuan government. The Indonesian goverment have provided autonomy funds amounting to 65 billion US dollars (2002-2022). Building the 4,600 km Trans Papua road. Build many seaports and airports. Build a food estate. Build schools and health facilities to the villages. Provided scholarships to 1,051 students. That's why most Papuans live happily and peacefully. And only a small part of the Papuans in the Central Highlands rebelled and wanted independence. Those who rebelled received support from foreign countries and embittered people living abroad.

[@arnoldsaputra6834]

@olday hmm actually i agree with this commentary, in firsts hand we should prosper the native papuanese , let them feel their land richness. But It's difficult to build something there because lot of conflict happen, for example some school get Destroyed and burned by separatist that's indeed waste of money, and energy. And if we look from construction laborers are afraid go there because the separatist ever kill some of them back then and the same case happen again when some local worker get kidnapped by them . Yeah it's have lots of difficultiness

[@SonyThamrin]

@olday Thank you for your concern my friend, even though you are not native Papuan, don't live in Papua, and use a fake account. Have you ever heard about the Beasiswa Putra-Putri Papua program? Currently there are 1,051 native Papuans who have received the scholarship. Do you know about schools and health facilities in Papua? Everything already exists in all of sub-district in Papua. And you are wrong about the autonomy fund. It was taken from the Indonesian people's tax money, not from the Freeport mine. You and me are citizens of Indonesia, but why are you so skeptical and pessimistic? Is there something wrong with your life, my friend?

[@arnoldsaputra6834]

@olday i admit it i lack resources to have view from papuan itself so yeah i just can watch it from the media said, feel free to correct me though

[@ntkproductions1761]

@olday what would happen if the military left Papua their are military post everywhere

[@vixonviee]

​ @oldday dude please look at the timeline of our world, they are just a tribe of natives who were forced from non-maden tribes to the modern industrialization age, obviously it's not easy to change them, they are not like us, step by step so that people can accept the changing times. That is another factor why it is difficult for Papua to develop because of the changing times in the blink of an eye and always needing new things to develop. Our eastern region has been stagnant for 60 years to be developed. I see that not all indigenous Papuans have the skills to survive or be able to compete with other ethnicities (such as Javanese, Chinese, Manado). Only the indigenous Papuan elite are able to survive or be able to compete with other ethnicities. that is my view as person who lives and grows in Papua. sorry if bad im using translate

[@thenasiudk1337]

I honestly kinda disappointed that you didn't include Timor Leste in this video, in 1975 we Indonesian literally just invaded them a second after Portuguese left, and guess what? US supported that invasion

[@lunascomments3024]

also Australia.

[@danaodanao4591]

@@lunascomments3024 noone cares about who supports you now or then. Look now China is supporting Russia but in the end only Russia will be held responsible for their warcrimes because it is they who committed them. The same goes for warcrimes committed by Indonesia. In the end we care little about who supports who. We only care about the murderers, rapists and warcriminals who commit crimes. NO More IMPUNITY

[@lunascomments3024]

@@danaodanao4591 australia supported warcrime to happen. cope!

[@danaodanao4591]

@@lunascomments3024 hahahha it's time for you to start COPING on your own... What you think, you can blame Australia for all your warcrimes...delusions.

[@lunascomments3024]

@@danaodanao4591 keep denying the truth. it's smells like copium.

[@MugroofAmeen]

We have a saying here, "Indonesia always dissapoints. It dissapoints the optimists and the pessimists too." Our country never quite achieved massive economic growth like China or South Korea, but also at the same time, our country never fell apart like Yugoslavia or Congo did.

[@reinaldoa2104]

You missed Freeport. The Indonesian government never controlled the mine or profited from it. The reason why there were so many military operations in West Papua at that time was because Soeharto was acting as the company's personal guard dog. It's only recently that their contract was renewed in favor of the government. Even that contract is questionable. Note: to be honest I'm quite curious about what the region would be if it remained under the dutch. Not that what they did wasn't horrible but compared to the Spanish it looked like nothing. The Filipinos lost most of their culture, I can't quite distinguish them from any of the Southeast Asian nations other than being very much "westernized"

[@ThePresentPast_]

True. I alluded to it but could be more explicit.

[@Banom7a]

> if it remained under the dutch. you can take look at the island in the Caribbean that is owned by the Dutch

[@reinaldoa2104]

@Zaydan Alfariz that's why I said 'recently'. The new contract was signed in 2018 with a 51% share held by the government. But what I want to emphasize here is the role of the company in the politics of West Papua. Papuans had demanded to shut down freeport for years. It doesn't matter who owns the company. It already became the symbol of their oppression. Even if they get their independence, there is no guarantee they would be truly independent when the mine remains active

[@mshkolazmarz]

@@reinaldoa2104 The Aus*ies will take them for sure..probably Ch*na too lol

[@YouOnUsPath]

​@@Banom7ahow? Sucked by VOC? Then replaced by Wallst?

[@JongeKroost]

Nice vid. It's cool to hear about the complicated context of my family history. My mostly Dutch grandfather was born on Sumatra and later moved to west Papua with my Dutch grandmother to teach in the local schools. Come to think of it my step grandfather is a Papua. Never really realised it was weird that my white dutch family never eats potatoes or things like snert and almost always eats Indonesian food. Bit of a rambly comment but it's funny to think my family was present for most if not all of the events he mentioned.

[@kykale]

When Dutch New Guinea was the remaining colony, it was the last colonization effort and a proposed homeland for the Indo-Europeans, who fled Indonesia (and eventually would end up in the Netherlands after this last colony was given up). I’ve heard many stories of Indo-Europeans who arrived in the Netherlands in the late 50s/early 60s because they remained in Dutch New Guinea.

[@abcddef2112]

Yeah papua was just lebensraum for netherlands to put surplus indo population. Just shows how ethnonationalist the dutch was and possibly still is. The silencing of papuan by the Dutch began in denpasar conference. Because they found out the hard way in Malino conference that, all papuan nationalists leaders at the time were indonesian nationalist leaders too. From the supposedly 'amberi (indonesian)-hating' Papare to Kaisiepo to high ranking Jouwe. The dutch tried desperately to break Indonesia.

[@whyblank]

Heyy, I'm really curious, do you still live in west papua or u have moved to Netherlands

[@houghwhite411]

That's cool piece of history

[@EdukasiPerpus]

western media hipocrit, aborigin in australia, native america in united state and kanada, maori in new zealand. the colonial state???

[@hanflax4679]

Malay language? what unites Indonesia is colonialism and youth. you should at least read briefly about the youth oath which was attended by various youths throughout Indonesia or 'sumpah pemuda' on 28 October 1928, which stated the agreement on unity as a new nation and confirmed the language (which was chosen from among the many existing languages). and from that resulted a nation and a mutually agreed declaration of independence

[@eustasskidd5671]

You don't need to teach him that he has a brain to find out, the fact is that Indonesian comes from Riau Malay. Precisely you have a lot to learn 😏

[@JayAnuar]

well it wouldn't have worked if you choose Javenese language. 😂

[@INDONESIABUBAR2030BYSPIZYDORI]

​@@JayAnuar so why oh you british dog?

[@sirihsirih4938]

@@JayAnuar Javanese just stole a language and entire country. And now they claim they invented it.. 🤣🤣😂💀☠️

[@queen84sasha]

Everything about Indonesia is fake or stolen. Including "their" Language.

[@reginaldevan]

I rarely post comments but thanks for making this! As an Indonesian, we often presented by a very simplified version of our history which is sad. I felt like the nation itself has a rich history that people of the nation should be more aware of. Some ideas which might be interesting to be covered is the pre-colonialism era where there are a lot of Kingdoms within the geographical border of the nation!

[@EdukasiPerpus]

western media hipocrit, aborigin in australia, native america in united state and kanada, maori in new zealand. the colonial state???

[@pancafebriansyah6130]

There also some History that was twisted by our Indoenisan goverment. Our country is too much javanse centric

[@hikashia.halfiah3582]

@@pancafebriansyah6130 if that's what you think, hopefully moving the capital out of java make it less java centric.

[@Luvinist]

Great video as always. I love to hear our history from other perspectives without the self-righteous lecture.

[@Blindfolded.911]

Nice video. But there are some important missing pieces related to West Papua, which can lead to very misleading conclusions: 1) The Dutch was refused to leave West Papua, NOT because they wanted to liberate the Papuan people. But because West Papua has one of the world's largest gold mining resources, not to mention other high-value resources such as: oil, copper, uranium, etc. And they only build roads to connect their military outposts, and for exploration purposes. They never cared about native Papuans, same as they never cared about Indonesian people for more than 300 years. 2) President Soekarno was repeatedly asked the Dutch to leave West Papua, but the Dutch did not leave West Papua. And because of the lack of weaponry, President Sukarno planned to buy some weapons from the US, but the US rejected the proposal, knowing they would be used against the Dutch (US ally) in West Papua. 3) In a state of urgency, lacking weapons, Russia came and offered weapons to the Indonesian government. President Soekarno then bought the Russian military weapons, such as fighter planes, bombers, military transport planes, warships, tanks, armored vehicles, artillery, and other light weapons for the Indonesian army. After receiving large quantities of new weaponry, President Sukarno planned to start a major operation "Djajawidjaya" ("Victory over colonialism") in May 1962 against Dutch defenses in West Papua. The plan for this operation was noticed by the US. Knowing the Dutch had unmatched weaponry and military size against Indonesia, the US pressured the Dutch to leave West Papua to avoid a large scale war. As a result, the Dutch left West Papua based on the New York Agreement in August 1962 between the Dutch and Indonesian governments. 4) Referring to Russia's swift action to assist Indonesia in armaments and sovereignty over West Papua, President Soekarno began to bring closer relations with Russia, including other Warsaw allies, such as China, Cuba, etc. And the US didn't like this, got the US through CIA to fell Soekarno from the Indonesian leadership using the method what we know as: "Jakarta Method", caused deaths of more than 3 millions Indonesian during the revolution. 5) When General Suharto came to power, he authorized the US for exploration of West Papua in return. That's why the US was able to built Erstberg and Grasberg mining, the world's largest gold mining company, in West Papua since 1967. This mining is run by the Freeport, a US company, with 90% ownership in the US, 10% Indonesian government. Which means more than 90% of West Papua's gold profits goes to the US. And less than 10% gold profits to the Indonesian government, which most of this 10% goes to the corrupt Suharto regime, and almost zero for the people of West Papua. Indeed, there was many developments from the Indonesian government during Suharto regime in West Papua, but West Papua was have far behind developments compared to the other provinces in Indonesia. 6) In 2018, Freeport ended its 50 year contract and plans to extend its contract. The Indonesian government under the leadership of President Joko Widodo agreed to extend their contract but with three main conditions: "change of ownership", "technology transfer", "minimum 70% native employees". In December 2018, Freeport changed the ownership became 49% to the US and 51% to the Government of Indonesia. This is why since early 2019, the Indonesian government has been able to build West Papua's infrastructures on a larger scale than before.

[@agusmedan9617]

Yeah. Most Indonesian elders know about the dark history that CIA done to Indonesia, but they was silenced by the Suharto regime. Thanks to those journalist who published and remind us again about the "Jakarta Method"

[@liveforetruth]

Menyetujui

[@MugroofAmeen]

It seems that this video is only using western perspective and ignoring local complexities. This video is harmful and ignorant. He could've explain the situation better.

[@TitusRex]

You failed to mention how Indonesia invaded and oppressed East Timor.

[@JesusIncarnationYHWH]

Memang ini fakta sejarah, itu sebabnya kenapa muslim selalu menutupi kebenaran, kasihan juga dan salahkan Agama Lo Kofar Kafir

[@Indonesia5533]

We are not bullying him!

[@rusticcloud3325]

​@@Indonesia5533 We didn't, but Soeharto did. Shame on Soeharto

[@apoek.lizt.blitzas4497]

After that Timor Leste invaded and squezed of ITS oil by Australia since it doesn't have strong political or military power after break free from Indonesia

[@user-lr6hw4dq4t]

Love the explanation about "how this nation, that ain't supposed to be a nation, yet become a nation"??? addition : I think you should explain also about others separatism fueled by religious extremism (Aceh, DI/TII), pro Netherlands folks (South Maluku), and US backed Permesta rebelion

[@INDONESIABUBAR2030BYSPIZYDORI]

US backed PRRI rebelion too

[@levyzach8485]

Were they religious extremist or because the president was a "liar"?

[@user-lr6hw4dq4t]

@@levyzach8485 salafis ideology is common in muslim countries

[@levyzach8485]

@@user-lr6hw4dq4t ok, what does salafi have to do with anything? i am referring to Aceh, as you said "fueled by religious extremists". most of them just wanted the first president to fulfill his promise. if he couldn't keep it, don't gave people false promises.

[@MugroofAmeen]

Aceh's independence movement was originally a secular-nationalist one, 'till the Indonesian gov't potray them as religious zealots. The fightings eventually died down and fully stopped after the 2004 tsunami. Today Aceh is an autonomous province, albeit a very poor and uneducated one. It's a shame really how the Acehnese were disproportionally colonized by Dutch and betrayed by Soekarno.

[@zhdllm]

To answer the question raised by your video: No, Papua integration into Indonesia is not new colonialism. Soeharto did some atrocities not only to Papuan, but also to other ethnics in Indonesia, in keeping the country 'stable'. So, nit-picking the regime on Papuan only is kind of misleading. Being a nation is a continuing process. I found that there is a progress regarding representation, autonomy, and governance in Papua - as well as in other regions. That progress somehow missing in this video, unfortunately.

[@rocketman-766]

To be fair soeharto did atrocities to all ethnicities

[@hijisfriend9030]

Soeharto literally did everyone dirty except Javanese. Sumatra? For their coal, Kalimantan? For their oil, Sulawesi? Same thing with Kalimantan, Papua? Gold and other minerals. I don't even touch Maluku, NTT, and NTB yet. On top of that, East Timor got annexed around his time with the support of AUSTRALIA.

[@snails6997]

​@@hijisfriend9030 nah, javanese also being under his authoritary iron hand. A tech Institute completely under military occupation in Bandung under his command. That Institute always born critical people. Even now ITB will always have student body placing themselves as govt opposition. Obviously a dictator hate that.

[@KakaUmbraLunar]

@@hijisfriend9030 do you know anti communist massacre? its 2 million mainly javanese who killed during anti communist massacre...

[@sirihsirih4938]

IndoNazi ☠️💀☠️🇮🇩🇮🇩☠️💀☠️ Papua MERDEKA ❤️

[@chvhndrtntlr3482]

the problem with Indonesian Papua is the problem about neglection, corruption, and human rights violation. I won't say it's the same magnitude with colonialism, because if you said Indonesia become a colonist country that invade Papua, how about US, UK, Dutch, French themselves? they still have have their land that they gain when they start colonizing the world. and the reason why Indonesia still keep papuan land is the same reason why US still keep puerto rico, French with their overseas territory in polynesia-northamerica-africa-caribean, UK with scottland- falkland island- northern Ireland, dutch with aruba-curacao-san marteen-bonaire... one dictator sin doesn't translate into a whole nation sin. true we must acknowledged Indonesia government once doing nasty things to papuan, but I hope many people can get blind who the one that supply their weapons and backed up soeharto in international stage do justified his action? it's CIA it's the US and also a part of collaboration with UK and now who do you think that supply and give the papuan separatist funding? it's also them....they want so bad papua fall into their hands. if papuan really not part of Indonesia, Indonesia government have track record to give Independence to their former province "timor leste" why should west afraid of? I once more, if you international viewers can see it thoroughly, why this recurring topic become trending topic right now? why not when soeharto still in reign, why not when he got dethroned? for all the time they have they choose right now when Indonesia government fully responded to their mistake to papuan, already invested so much money build megastructure and improving development index there? did you know what separatist group in Papua do? they attack road workers when they try to built papuan infrastructure, it seems that this separatist group that want papua Independence so bad don't want their own people flourish and shaping their own fate out form any external force

[@sirihsirih4938]

Fact : It's worse magnitude than during Dutch colonialism. Papuans were not mistreated by the Dutch but by Javanese Elites even before European colonialism. And TNI had m? rdered around 500K Papuans over the last decades. It's worse than in 300 years of Dutch occupation. THESE ARE THE FACTS AND REALITY.

[@sirihsirih4938]

Get your history facts straight and stop listening to Indonesian PROPAGANDA

[@jimhoobing]

​@@sirihsirih4938 well bc the dutch not dicovered gold deposite yet. If they were papuan would be treated left worse than javan or other. They are a bunch of greedy pos.

[@sirihsirih4938]

@@jimhoobing nope again. And now you're talking in pure fiction. It was a Dutch mineralogist that discovered the first gold and copper deposits in the 1930's. Yet they were in no rush to exploit it. Then WW2 happened and Sukarno plus the Americans got hold of the discovery made by Dutch scientists. Sukarno later used this "discovery" as a way to bargain support of America for independence against the Dutch. 😊

[@jimhoobing]

@@sirihsirih4938 its 1936, dude literaly those pos planned to exploited those mines 3 years later and the ww2 breaks out. Its you who dont know, the dutch would not hesitate to destroy their colony and its people for their greed. Thats why they wont give west papuan to indonesia bc they want it them self those pos, then Soekarno liberated it but sadly Soeharto gave it away to another pos American.

[@chrisbacos]

I really enjoyed this and the first episode. What came to mind with the change of leaders in the 1960s was the film The Year of Living Dangerously which starred a young Mel Gibson. I've been to Holland and had a Dutch girlfriend. I have friends in the Netherlands today and I have had Indonesian friends too. On and off I've read about Indonesia as I have always found it fascinating. During the 1980s I served in the US Navy and I sailed thru the Straights of Malacca and thru territorial waters going between the Philippines and Australia. Groetjes.

[@jadenbrdns]

So glad youtube showed me your channel a while back. Gotta be some of my most favourite videos. Love the stuff on Indonesia - hard to find comprehensive information (at least when you're over here in north america) while also being easily accessible and engaging. Keep it up!

[@andrewlim9345]

Thanks for this documentary on Indonesian nationalism and West Papua. One book worth reading is Benedict Anderson’s Imagined Communities. He talked about the logo map and how countries like Indonesia inherited the boundaries and infrastructure of former colonial territories.

[@abcddef2112]

He is not including many stuff including indonesian nationalist movement in Papua. And the separation of papua since denpasar conference.

[@queen84sasha]

I agree Benedict Anderson's work are the most objective and realistic. Same goes for his work "Java in a times of revolution".

[@queen84sasha]

Unfortunately, B Anderson's work is the only truthful non propaganda version of Indonesia's modern history. The rest is all financed by Jakarta. Even (and especially) the Dutch recent work via NIOD etc. All of that "research" was financed by Jakarta.

[@vuvuvu6291]

But if we look at both side of the aisle, by joining Indonesia side, West Papua actually is being placed in a double edged sword situation. The spark contrast between West Papua as a province and independent PNG shows that Indonesia investments proves to be an impactful factor for overall West Papua's development. So the question now, is independence _now_ will be a good thing for the general people of West Papua or it will put them into more vulnerable position? Let's be real, Indonesia isn't the only vulture who swing over the island for its resources. A rough patch newly independence nation surely is a soft target for other large birds to swoop in.

[@NiaArifah-br6cr]

this youtuber is sheltered westerner. They think ideology and freedom can fill people belly

[@vuvuvu6291]

@@NiaArifah-br6cr It doesn't matter whether they are Western or Eastern as long as they can present solid evidence to back up their argument. Then any solid arguments, whether they are hard critics or praise, can be a valuable input for more development. Let us keep learning and improving by studying from different POVs thus prevent ourselves from being sheltered by our own echo chamber.

[@m.taufiq4705]

Indonesia are just not about race or something this county not raise and rule just for 1 race or nation, so i think we not like vulture, we Indonesia not about what about your race its about Indonesian.im born with my dad and mom from 2 different island and province and also different race, and i live in different province and Islan to. i can do anything il get the job or have a land as you are Indonesia, if papuans whant to get job or have a land in another islan just says like in sumatra, they can have, we are same in a law an equal in rights and we are Indonesian. About resources we can share all our resources whathefer your from any islan. If papuans what to have mine in maluku island they can have it. Indonesia are grow together not only for one island or race, and than now papua are the most no1 island have priorty, and than why like im from nusa Tenggara dont angry Why my Neighbor islan West Papua have different treat? Because we are unity we want together grow, now Indonesia are not sentralice only in java but decentralicacion is the main. do in Indonesia like "otonomi daerah" who all province can rule and manage their resources self. Also have IKN in Borneo/kalimantan a simbol what is Indonesia are.

[@SirWorksalot]

The problem with West Papua becoming independent is that they will inevitably become an Australian puppet state. An autonomy inside Indonesia would be the best arrangement.

[@communistpoultry]

lol no development in West Papua, they just destroy our place and spilled deadly chemicals in our rivers !!! I am a WEST PAPUAN

[@friedec3622]

I hope Papua people integrate themselves into Indonesia and the majority of ethnics accept them. I am a chinese descendant. It's quite hard during Soeharto era and decades later after he fell. It's confusing, I was born in Indonesia and my parents has Indonesia ID card, and yet people often asking me to go home to mainland China. But, I rarely met that kind of discrimination in 2023. We're fragile. We're afraid of breaking ourselves and once again oppressed by other countries. We've history being colonized by some European countries and even some Asian countries. That's why we're neutral and doesn't partake in the west-east bullshit.

[@NicholasPangaribuan]

Sorry my bro, believe it or not. This is the fruit of the bloody past. The reason why Chinese Indonesian blends very well into our society, is because of the enforcement of Chinese Indonesian to throw away much of their cultural identity (Chinese names, language, etc) back in Soeharto's regime. Not saying that his regime is good. But now, I can say for sure that Chinese Indonesian is as patriotic as other Indonesian, and I cant say the same for other kind of Chinese living outside of the mainland (Malaysian Chinese for example). Me myself a Batak, loves this country even though this country is ran by the Javanese most of the time. It doesnt matter, we are now one country, and we all should take part to build her.

[@coolyz3981]

@@NicholasPangaribuan Malaysian Chinese are patriotic too, giving up all of your culture just to be able to blend into a society is really stupid

[@NicholasPangaribuan]

@@coolyz3981 tell that to China. They too forcebly "assimilate" other ethnicities to blend with Han people, it is necessary to achieve a united country. Or America when they overtake Hawaii and banned people from speaking Hawaiian, then overload local population with American (caucasian people), or banning several Native american language, or when they released the Chinese exclusion act. And there's this phenomenon where a number of Malaysian youths (mostly Chinese) flex on social media (IG, tiktok, twitter, etc) for not being able to speak Malay. I'm not saying that all Chinese Malaysian are unpatriotic, but to say that they are as Patriotic to their country as other non mainland Chinese is an overstatement.

[@coolyz3981]

@@NicholasPangaribuan The "Han" race isnt really a race, Chinese races and cultures have assimilated each other so much that there is almost no difference Also for the Malaysian Chinese youth not being able to speak Malay is just a loud minority. Malaysian Chinese know how to speak Malay as it is required for us to learn it and to socialize with Malays, but I personally think that its a bit of a troublesome as most of the stuff is in English, such as supermarkets, metro, banks, etc

[@coolyz3981]

@@NicholasPangaribuan Also for the America Hawaii part, didnt you guys did the same with west Papua? Double standards I guess

[@ReepRutger]

That’s for this amazing production!

[@SupremeLeaderKimJong-un]

The Dutch first stated their intentions of not handing over West Papua at the same time as the rest of the colony during the Denpasar Conference in 1946 when they created the independent State of East Indonesia (as a counter to the revolutionaries; the intention was for Papua to join this state, but it never happened). Originally, they WERE going to hand it over as part of forming the United States of Indonesia which both sides agreed to during the Linggadjati Agreement (where they also recognized revolutionary sovereignty over Java, Sumatra, and Madura). However, due to pressure from Catholic missionaries, the Dutch decided to interpret this agreement differently and form this East Indonesia state which included Sulawesi, Lesser Sunda, and Moluccas.

[@pessimistic5143]

do you have a source for that

[@cmaxz817]

*Citation needed*

[@a_Playerwastaken]

Source: Trust me bro Also what the fuck is United States of Indonesia!?

[@SupremeLeaderKimJong-un]

@@a_Playerwastaken a short-lived federal state to which the Netherlands formally transferred sovereignty of the Dutch East Indies (except Netherlands New Guinea) on December 27, 1949 following the Dutch-Indonesian Round Table Conference. It lasted less than a year. Gotta love when people like you don't actually do research! Look up the Denpasar Conference, look up the Linggadjati Agreement, and look up the State of East Indonesia. All of this info about their intentions with Papua can be found online with different sources.

[@cmaxz817]

*CITATION* *N E E D E D*

[@calumleys1129]

Pretty simple reasons why we keep Papua as part of Indonesia 1. Nationalist Strength (we only let go of Timor Leste and even that was met with huge backlash) 2. Natural Resources (huge amounts of gold and copper that we would lose revenue on if we were to let it go) 3. Influence of West Papua by foreign nations (West Papua could become like PNG where corruption is off the charts and exploitation of gold / copper by Australia / America is insane)

[@chootanf]

of course the first thing in Indonesians mind are Papua's natural resources, instead of Papuan people and their culture, no wonder they want to secede

[@Indischle]

Fr

[@Darthdog4957]

Last time I checked it all ready was by Australia as it had a big hand in stopping the it from being free and got a good deal on the resources and even trained and equipped some Indonesian soldiers that committed genocide their. So it really wasn’t about the last part of your comment

[@needmorequarts1081]

@@Darthdog4957 did you think Australian government is friendly to Indonesian government and agreed with the terms of deal? Lol hilarious there is a reason why most Australian wanted Papua to be free because of resources just like PNG where the resources from PNG benefits the Australian the most, that's why the PNG is full of corruption because their wealth goes to overseas.

[@adjojosjoe4689]

​@@Indischleyea r

[@antialiasantialias4958]

Great video! Hopefully you can make another on East Timor!

[@mrezarifki]

Thank bro for bring up this topic. Hope you also bring story about Aceh that has lots of differences from the rest of Indonesia.

[@mevancfc]

Thanks for this wonderful series, Jochem. What makes this vid stands out from the rest is your presentation really drives the point of a long grueling fight the Indonesians had to achieve independence. although I'd argue that the Dutch held on to West Papua not because of the resources (mostly undiscovered) but simply out of sheer pride. I read somewhere that the Dutch were actually losing money for West Papua.

[@karellen4913]

I've been waiting for this, this is a great one, and thanks for putting the entire context of Indonesian national identity in relation to Papua. Yes, I think the Government of Indonesia believes, and I also too believe, that Indonesia was created as a project to unify these disparate peoples into one grand project called Indonesia, and I think the Government of Indonesia, and myself, believe in that dream. Nevertheless the atrocities during the New Order era is something that we cannot erase and I am grateful that Bapak Presiden is acknowledging these past abuses by the New Order Government. Questions raised by video like this, is not unlike the Honest Government Ad video about West Papua that was banned by the Government of Indonesia, and one of the ways I will evaluate how serious Bapak Presiden with acknowledging those past atrocities, as a citizen of Indonesia, is by seeing if the Government of Indonesia will decide to ban this video or not. P.S. Btw I've been digging about the legacy of Dutch Indonesian culture these past few months and have been really liking this old Tempoe Doeloe song Krontjong Kemayoran: kzbin.info/www/bejne/epeTn5KIq9ypes0 Enjoy it, it's a great example of how pleasing Keroncong is 👍

[@ThePresentPast_]

Happy to hear you enjoy it!

[@NateVDZ]

But did the Papuan people in the 1960's believe in that dream?

[@Hewhoyettoknowhimself]

@@NateVDZ I know it sounds wrong, but even a lot of Indonesian did not believes in that dream at that time. Does it matters for Indonesian? Nope, just as Catalonian opinion doesn't matter for Spain, or Native Hawaian for US

[@rvat2003]

@@Hewhoyettoknowhimself Still, we shouldn't stop the conversation about West Papua's freedom.

[@Hewhoyettoknowhimself]

@@rvat2003 agreed. Just remember, this problem is far from unique to Indonesia. Nearly every body in Asia share the same problem. So any western intervention, albeit for a better intention, will be easily seen as a form of (neo)colonialism...

[@grissee]

I mean, just look at Papua New Guinea if you wonder how prosperous will West Papua be if it does become independent, I agree that our takeover isn't pretty, but even most coastal Papuan also acknowledge that being with Indonesia is the best choice they have (the separatist is mostly Papuan from the mountain) (not so) fun fact: our govt created a new province Papua Barat (which means West Papua in english) to confuse the International News (and you) (and it seems that it's working), imo it should be more accurately called West West Papua in english

[@senoadjiaditya1535]

Yep! But this video is talking about West Papua, not New Guinea. 😂 A step to hell, always started with "good intention".😂😂 Sometimes I wonder, every part of former Dutch Colonial area has become Indonesia's territory, so what's the difference with Papua?

[@grissee]

@@senoadjiaditya1535 huh, you're asking a good question and I'm genuinely confused, I think it's because we exploited them too much and they got angry

[@YouOnUsPath]

​@@grisseeFreeport owned by US, so i dont think will be much differents like Timor Leste, sucked by west.

[@MugroofAmeen]

@@YouOnUsPath Freeport is an American company. Americans backed Suharto's brutal regime & oppression of the Papuans to continue exploit Papua's resources. He seems to only use western perspective and ignoring local complexities. Classic western "social-justice" hypocrisy on play.

[@sprPee]

200,000 dead civilians in west papua, that’s not great

[@pflanzphileas479]

love the video! Please continue to do such interesting videos :)

[@jimmystewart3826]

Double salute plus Jempol for this content , made n share this information

[@wonkagaming8750]

This series will continue right? Also governors of papua are always native papuans so i dont know where you get the papuan never had representative, also 3 papaun were at the 1928 youth pladge

[@ThePresentPast_]

You have a suggestion for a next instalment?

[@wonkagaming8750]

@@ThePresentPast_ reformation period and suharto's downfall

[@kykale]

@@wonkagaming8750 in that same context: the position of Chinese-Indonesians. It has it’s roots in the colonial hierarchy and the Chinese-Indonesians have been the scapegoat, targeted by the Dutch (like in 1740), Indonesians (independence war, 1965, 1998). It all has to do with being in the position as a middlemen minorty. Similar to this are the Indians in Uganda who were expelled by Idi Amin.

[@laosi4278]

@@kykale about Chinese Indonesian, they not all only the victims and scapegoat here, some of them are just straight opportunists which understandably make the Indonesian natives hate them. After gaining independence and after the independence being recognized by the Dutch, the Indonesian government had no money, so some native royals give aid by giving the government their kingdom's treasury, the most notable was Jogjakarta, Surakarta and the richest of them all Siak Sri Indrapura Sultanate, The Sultan of Siak even bangkrupting his own kingdom and later died in a humble house instead of in his palace. People in Aceh even donated their own gold jewelry so the new government can buy a plane. Yet at this time no rich Chinese Indonesian give notable monetary aid even though they are known as the richest non-European, non-Royals in Dutch Indies, most of them fled with their money during the independence war, and only return after independence recognition, for their unpatriotic opportunistic behaviour later on in 1955 most of them would be expelled by the government and most of their rich would be nationalized. This expelled Chinese was known as "Cabang Atas" The 2nd class citizens during Dutch colonial rule and controlling much economy, most of them return to China, which later during Mao's regime was saw as colonial lackeys there. The same thing repeat in 98 chaos, many rich Chinese fled the country with their money for they are seen as Suharto's lackeys and later return to try make fortune again, the most notable is Anthony Salim, the heir of Lim Siou Long, the richest Chinese who was one of the inner circle of Suharto.

[@protocetus499]

@@kykale who cares about them lol

[@sahabuddinnur7729]

Very interesting explanation of Indonesian history from a Dutch guy. I love it!

[@shinigummyl1586]

Ever heard of journalism? To ironically judge someone else in their race isn’t by Indonesian standards isn’t it?

[@atlasaltera]

It's always a great day when the Present Past posts a new video. I love the Vox Borders vibes + commitment to digging deeper at pertinent but marginalized threads of history.

[@dhem-ln9ze]

Yyukkss mainstream media.. if ur just focus for 1 side pov ur got brainwashed

[@MugroofAmeen]

It's a gross oversimplification though. Especially the parts regarding the Grasberg mine. He forgot to mention that the Grasberg gold mine was owned by Freeport. It was the US who supported Suharto and his oppressive dictatorship arose to power. It was the US backed-Suharto who killed hundreds of thousands in Aceh, Timor Leste, And Papua. Blaming Indonesians for those crimes is like blaming ALL Americans for the war in Iraq. You can't just blame a dictator's crime to the very same people they oppressed.

[@sjelucten7150]

I was born in a small island in the Southern of Soematra. My mother enjoyed Dutch education in a Catholic school in a small town on the island. My mother and her siblings spoke creool Dutch at home. That's why I speak Dutch as well. The school in that small town was managed by Dutch nuns. I was even came to the world by a Dutch midwife, a Catholic nun called Zoester Pauline. The people in our small town went to Zoester Pauline to ask for Dutch medicines, free of charge. There were no Indonesian state schools, there were only one Chinese School (closed down in the 1960s) and a Dutch Catholic Colonial School called Santa Agnes. When I was a little girl, we prayed in Latin language. Later The Catholic school used bahasa Indonesia as medium of teaching. My father told me that in Dutch colonial times, it's easy to earn 5Dutch Guilders. (a Rijksdaalder ?). And with 5 Guilders one could buy lots of things. My grandparents spoke horrible things about Japanese occupation , but they were fond of Dutch colonizers who gave us good education. I learned English, Dutch also from my Dutch taechers who stayed on in Indonesia after Indonesia's Independence. Many many people from our small town were married to Dutch colonizers who worked in the local hospital as chef, doctors, administrators. We despised Japanese colonizers, but NOT the Dutch ones.

[@queen84sasha]

It's pretty hallucinating if you think we don't know all your propaganda is sponsored by Jakarta and the US. People not as stupid as you think.

[@tarno_bejo_]

In the event of "sumpah pemuda" (the oath of youth) in 1928, the representatives from papua have expressed themselves of the willing to be united as one free nation with the rest of us, free from the dutch colonizer. So, its not like sukarno wanted to annex the papua. But rather we re trying to fulfill the promise, the oath we ve made for the longest before our independent day. And obviously we re still trying to defend it. Otherwise we had been breaking our forefather oath.

[@hanflax4679]

he is one of the supporters of Papuan independence so it is not surprising

[@Revolutionary_Fish]

Soekarno wasn't even wanted to "annex" states, he is an tough supporter of anti-colonialism and even when an incursion into the Malaysian North Kalimantan, he supported the region to unite under an real independent and an real state fro the people. Soeharto destroys it completely, not only he tortured people but he also unite the people in an wrong way that doesn't apply Soekarno anti-colonialism but it just straight up resource pumped Aceh, Papua and eccetra. We should united the people of Indonesia with cultural diversity and an unity of people under one banner but doesn't necessarily trample them to give everything they has to us.

[@MugroofAmeen]

@@hanflax4679 He only used western perspective and ignoring local complexities. Classic case of western hypocrisy.

[@ptmjlngk4706]

Nice information, thanks

[@alean13]

thanks for your perspective

[@sebastianadinugraha]

Papua question actually is kinda complicated, is it a neo-colonialism? It might be is. But is it legal? It is, since the referendum had been held and the result had been ratified by the United Nations in 1969 UN General Assembly (regardless the sham implementation accusation). It is the same with Hawaii status or the existence of australia / new zealand as countries. Are they a new colonialism? Yes they are, but is the US claim over Hawaii and the existence Australia and New Zealand as countries are legal? Yes, they are But, still, It is a great video and give us more point of view

[@ToastieBRRRN]

A better comparison would've have been India being granted the Andaman and Nicobar islands by the UK despite their being any cultural or ethnic links. Done deliberately to counter China as a choke point in it's string of pearls initiative.

[@rvat2003]

Even if it is "legal", it doesn't mean West Papua shouldn't gain independence. Especially since it is still a Papuan-majority area.

[@RayshiaRoman]

@@rvat2003 West Papuans are also Indonesians. Besides, the separatist also kills Papuans anyway.

[@gary7867]

@@rvat2003 are you being backed by the fed or something, you keep sperging about rebels in these comments. either way the US is going to have a field day when they got hands on those papuan golds

[@justacommonman5935]

@@rvat2003 ahh yeah a classic plan that I often see "Divide and Qonquer*, the last time in 1999-2002 an Indonesian province insisted on independence. They got what they wanted, and their natural resources were immediately drained by Australian private companies until they were dry... Poverty never recovered, the economy still depended on Indonesia, pro-Portugal and Australian corrupt governments that didn't change anything and *ended up being one of the poorest countries in the world* .I can imagine an independent Papua will be a haven for private companies from Australia, America and dutch, and i wouldn't be surprised if you've been paid to support that crap...i mean tons of gold it sure makes you rich right?

[@putra4101]

I love this unbiased dark history of Indonesia nobody talk of. Thank you very much from Jakarta 👌

[@queen84sasha]

Good joke 😂🤣

[@queen84sasha]

Hahahaha unbiased... that's priceless

[@shukshin_burgundian_system]

hes a dutch

[@coastsouljah]

This is very well done

[@GarethWareth]

Fantastic video. I've never learned anything about Indonesia. I'll check out your stuff on Nebula.

[@bayuwijaya222]

i think de facto & de jure western new guinea is literally a part of indonesia, it's totally different story with east-timor now timor-leste

[@Aninkovsky]

In the early video, you said that West Papua have no strong ethnic or historic ties to Indonesia. This is rather false. From historical perspective, there are many episodes that Papua integrated into various Kingdoms in Indonesia. From Majapahit, Gowa, Ternate, etc. Papuan even have some local Kingdoms that built with Old Indonesia model of government. And from ethnic perspective. If you ever visit Indonesia, they are no clear boundary between Austronesian - Malay and Papuans. For example, just east of Bali, you will found that East Nusa Tenggara (near Timor) is closely related to Papuan rather than Javaneses - Balinese. Yes, it's that complicated. So yeah, it's not Black and White situation, rather it's grey. It's normal if we study historcal part of this region. Modern Indonesia, Malaysia, Brunei, Piliphines, south of Thailand, and Southern part of Vietnam is closely ties with various competing Kingdoms for centuries. The colonial era bring a lot of disaster, but also give modern border of those nations. I think we should look for the future, and accept the past. If we want to draw line of border on ethnicity or "suku", God knows how many nations will spring up in this part of the world. In fact, if we want to do the same like this in America (continent), I'm not sure how the borders will looks like. How many natives Indian Nations will sprung up? Almost all southeast Asian Nations draw their borders based on colonial era, and let them do this. And it's not their fault to do that. Yes, there are problems. But as long as they accept and want to change. Give them chance to do it.

[@123dodo4]

Agreed, altough there is an old saying "history is bound to repeat itself" and for that im curious as to the truth what happened to these dark history.. even though we cannot change the past we certainly can avoid the future. I think papua ethnicity, culture, and history deserve a spot in indonesian education books especially history. And yeah.. unity in diversity is hard but i think indonesia is trying to achieve it. I had that mad respect to indonesian identity and its entity as a whole to even hold such vast lands with uncountable ethnic differences and that makes me proud being indonesian despite several corrupt officials and seperatism its still a feast for indonesia to still hold on.

[@rvat2003]

Yup, all southeast Asian nations draw borders based on colonial territories. That doesn't mean it has to stay that way, especially when terrible things are happening like in West Papua. We can't say that Indonesia is doing well with West Papua when the bare minimum of having a legitimate and true referendum is constantly ignored, silenced, and denied.

[@rvat2003]

@@elfrjz Yes fortunately. Is the next president more democratic?

[@ryangreen1588]

top content! thanks

[@luthfihar3211]

one thing i want to clear up is that the secessionist movements we see in java, sumatra, and sulawesi were from before we get our full recognition and before the 2nd military aggression that's a result of them not agreeing with the result of the conference after the 1st military aggression and the government policy decision, these movement isn't really seeking independence for the most part but instead a form of coup to change how the country is made and run. on the other hand the secessionist movement of aceh, south maluku, and papua ARE secessionist and seeking independence after we got recognized fully by the netherlands, out of these three aceh are the one without any connection to the puppet government of the dutch during the military aggression and aceh are the one that's been fully dealt with.

[@Swat_Dennis]

This is what I dislike about the Israeli question. They have been wronged for ever since the start of humanity, but that doesn’t mean THEY can’t do wrong themselves. The Americans got out of the British due to taxes, but they tax their citizens even if they are abroad. I’d say… If you know how it is to be X, you are one of the best at doing the same

[@reyhanalexander3574]

As Indonesian myself, I can say there many reasons our government insisting to keep west papua, it's an entire long list. However, resources isn't the top of the list. It's about dignity of the nation, to keep the nation intact. Video mentioned the only thing that binds the archipelago as one is that we were all ruled by the Dutch. Then came malay language, that only tiny fraction of society spokes back then. Now, should west papua breaks apart, can anyone guarantee that Aceh won't go for retry? Would another ethnicities remain loyal, not trying to question their position even a little bit? Side note, East Timor was different case. Indonesia was on a very rough transition of power, then they took momentum to break away. We are talking about condition of a stable Indonesian government here.

[@abcddef2112]

Yeah foreign people seem to think Indonesia is a race (malay). But indonesia is diverse and on a spectrum from austronesian to austroasiatic (java) to melanesian. Indonesian identity always included papuan, ever since 1928 sumpah pemuda.

[@hijisfriend9030]

Tbh, East Timor deserved to be independent. They were independence until we annexed them to suppress the civil war. The problem is West influence. Soeharto who is Puppet leader would do anything to keep his power while Australia was lurking to get their opportunity.

[@MugroofAmeen]

@@hijisfriend9030 Yeah, it's our fault. If we at least didn't kill 250.000 Timorese than they would stay. The Timorese invasion has a lot to do with Suharto's cult of personality though.

[@iandgabon5231]

Sangat menarik sebagai seorang yang tak memiliki pengetahuan sejarah. Semoga karya Anda semakin berkembang

[@EbrahimHasan]

Thanks. Very enlightening in fact

[@rasmusn.e.m1064]

This is why it's important that English-speaking history youtube also include people from other European colonising countries. For people of colonised nations it's obvious they should have a voice, but the cultural descendants of colonisers have had to reckon with the actions of their ancestors and so, automatically, have a lot of stories that most English speakers simply never hear about because they have plenty of their own shit to deal with.

[@ed_cmntonly]

NGL as a Indonesian, it really bothers me that Indonesians and even outsiders make their "History of Indonesia" videos be like at the end that Indonesia got their independence from the Dutch and that's literally it for their history, like nothing else happened between the 1950s and today. The 1950s to the 1990s had really major events that had gone under the radar of the West and ourselves; like the G30SPKI incident, the mass-killings of communists, our thousands of humans rights violations, Suharto's dictatorship over the country for quite some time, Sukarno's guided democracy ideology, and the oppression of West Papua, Timor Leste, and Aceh. I don't get it that outsiders don't research well enough to their videos AFTER Indonesia's independence, a major yikes from the West.

[@bradyclarkson5369]

an excellent video

[@faarisisfinn]

You should make more vids like the Johnny Harris video,that was the best vid you made

[@kyukamba1902]

9:33 Bruuuuuh😂 I cant let that slide, you got us rickrolled ehhhh That rick dance - never gonna give you up- in papua, match perfectly with the situation

[@edoaja5221]

We know that not all regions in our country agree to build a country together but this is better than giving rise to opportunities for the west to make politics pitting one against the other so that bringing back wars that the newly independent regions did not want.

[@hokkeypuck]

This video clears up a lot of questions. I would like to see you describe the next chapters in this story. Without prejudice, history doesn't repeat but it rhymes.

[@faridelfadani5404]

This is such a taboo topic in Indonesia, and you can't ask Javanese opinion about it, but when you talk to people from other islands, they will agree, that we all have been colonized again, by java, because that exactly what they did before the Dutch even coming here

[@totoabubakar1008]

Mengarang bebas 😂 Yang dibantai di Papua sekarang orang pendatang Sulawesi dan Sumatra wkwk

[@agreenplasticwateringcan]

halah suku minoritas sok sok-an playing victim

[@kiena26]

Playing victim mulu

[@CertifiedAbyssGazer]

You mean Majapahit?

[@wdotme]

Kamu orang Indonesia? Kok bisa kamu kamu memfitnah, berbohong, sambil pamer kegoblokan gitu. Bisa kamu elaborasi dan buktikan tuduhan kamu itu? Kamu paham apa yang kamu katakan? Kamu kaitkan kemana? Soal Transmigrasi? Ha ha. Kamu dilarang oleh Negara untuk tinggal di Pulau Kalimantan, Pulau Papua Barat, kawin sama orang Sunda dan tinggal serta kerja di Pulau Jawa atau kemanapun yang kamu mau sesuai kemampuanmu? Kamu dilarang oleh Negara untuk jadi Presiden Indonesia atau mengambil profesi atau peran apapun sesuai bakat dan kemampuanmu? Hak dan Kewajibanmu sebagai Warga Negara Indonesia dibedakan oleh Dasar, Konstitusi, Hukum Negara Indoenesia? Di jajah siapa kamu? Imajinasimu sendiri? Ada sebutirpun di Dasar, Konstitusi, Hukum NKRI yang menyatakan hal semacam itu atau sengaja memberlakukan diskriminasi atau hal kayak yang kamu tuduhkan? Atau, itu kejahatan Rezim, atau oknum, atau kelompok, yang tak ada perintahnya dalam amanat Negara Indonesia manapun, sebutirpun, malah bertentangan dengannya alias justru kejahatan melawan Negara? Gak bisa membedakannya? Gak bisa membedakan hal yang sangat mendasar dan prinsipil gitu artinya gak mampu berpikir, alias bodoh. Kamu bersuara dah kayak #maaf anj#ng Western aja, orang LSM/NGO kamu? *) Saya bukan orang Jawa, saya orang Sumatera, Ibu Sumatera dan Bapak Sumatera.

[@Journal_Haris]

As the map animator for this video I would like to insincerely apologise for the frame in the bottom right at 9:33 😏

[@geodiary34]

The most creative way that i have ever seen of doing that :) Keep up with good work.

[@charlesz9190]

How can I even be mad at that Haris

[@motorola9956]

Omg that was clever

[@NateVDZ]

_"Never gonna give you up, Never gonna let you down"_ he sang, but in the end West Papua got Rickrolled 😓

[@kfdini3171]

Thank you for telling history with such an empathy 🥺🥲

[@thomasvandenbelt4097]

mooi werk man

[@tengkuazmi4273]

As a native aceh who was born when conflict happened here, i had so many unreal story on how us aceh people were treated during the event. So many atrocity committed by indonesian soldier and police during aceh war for independent. Even after peace came, many of us still traumatized because of such act. Yeah colonialism never leave Indonesia for sure.

[@litfiana5417]

​@@elfrjz deal was made, Aceh become special province, where they can rule and create their own law (Islamic law) and receive more budget money than other province until certain period. it's like they get their own country, and still get benefit from being part of indonesia

[@kikijihan8316]

@@litfiana5417 Exactly, as a medanese who once lived in Aceh (around 2008 or so). Aceh feels like a differenct country but somehow still have the Indonesian vibe, lol.

[@f.s.firdaus8106]

@@kikijihan8316 Aceh is more like Macau or Hong Kong, and Indonesia is the China. We're one-country-two-systems as well.

[@INDONESIABUBAR2030BYSPIZYDORI]

​@@litfiana5417 mereka saja punya 5 Partai tersendiri Lol😂

[@litfiana5417]

@@f.s.firdaus8106 No that's wrong, it's not one country-two system Indonesia have lots of "Special Region Autonomy" - Special Region Aceh - Special Region Jakarta - Special Region Yogyakarta - Special Region Papua & West Papua Each have their own unique goverment style Aceh is more islamic, Jakarta is like it's own country as capital city, Yogyakarta is like monarchy, And Papua get tons and tons of money as special region

[@alvintsai1161]

I think West Papua natural resources was not the initial goal for Sukarno, seas between Papua and Maluku are more important for him. Indonesia currently fully controlled 3 important maritime choke points (Sunda Strait, Lombok Strait, and seas between Papua and Maluku) and partially controlled Malacca Strait. At that time, if Sukarno blocked Sunda Strait and Lombok Strait, the shipping between Australia and Japan-Philippines-Taiwan-South Korea would be reroute to Dutch New Guinea. That's why West Papua is important, so Indonesia will have more leverage in front of Western Powers at that time. Most of mines are opened in Suharto regime and most atrocities also happened during his regime. But this kind of thing not only directed to Papuan, it's not directed to certain ethnic group, it's directed to all opposition and any potential opposition for Suharto regime. My grandfather are detained for months without trial just because he was ethnic Chinese (every are Chinese suspected as communist) and member of a Chinese-Indonesian party. The mines that appears in the video, is the biggest mines in West Papua and it was controlled by US company. It was opened in 1972 during Suharto regime, that mine are heavily guarded by the military, then the company can suck all of the gold and minerals there. So, there are Papuan blood in US gold.

[@user-dc6hj7fj1m]

Thank you brother.

[@tomisafaid8975]

european dictionary colonist state = youre not exploiting enough. war crime = youre not unaliving enough freedom = we help you but we want resources

[@va_sirberpasir9708]

Eye opening and informative explanation for both foreigners and Indonesians. As Indonesian myself I could postively said that majority of the people felt sorry because past goverment abuses to our Papuan brother and sister. But since Reformasi I have hope we could fix all the f- up we did to our own citizens, It will take time but I'm sute it will be done. Dang that Rickroll made me chuckle way too hard 9:33

[@abcddef2112]

Never say sorry if the west mever say sorry about Suharto coup. His regime did many atrocities for many Indonesians from west to east, while cheered by western countries. Truly a corruption of Sukarno's ideal to serve capitalistic companies.

[@justacommonman5935]

Hearing explanations from other points of view is indeed something that is appropriate, but you also have to be able to distinguish where the information is made up for their *personal/national interests* as well. How could they not support separatist history for no reason, right? Moreover, this concerns Thousands of tons of resources that can be quickly drained by Private foreign companies if this region is independent, I would not be surprised that he skewed some of the facts in the interests of something for him. You need to find out the truth yourself and sort out what is *nonsense* and which are *facts* ,without a Critical attitude...you will easily fall for their "Smooth" propaganda.

[@MugroofAmeen]

A dictator's sin is not the fault of the people. Blame Suharto. Not Indonesians.

[@MugroofAmeen]

@@justacommonman5935 what the hell are you even talking man.

[@vincentribbe4009]

Keep up the good work Jochem! Nothing like a constant uploading scheme to boost the channel.

[@andanahu]

Goed bezig! 😎

[@HyphenatedHistoryUK]

I really do love this channel! You inspire me to always improve my own content! It’s so important to have history made accessible like this. Thank you!

[@Enmeskian]

I love this video but I wish that you go through all of Indonesia thoroughly because basically, Indonesia is like Europe with hundreds of people's native language is almost unintelligible to one another might have some similarities but are unintelligible like french to Spanish like they came from romanic language but the differences are huge so the only thing that unifies Indonesia actually is its common colonial past.

[@jmgonzales7701]

i guess thats just how it is in southeast Asia, even here in Ph there is like 180 ethno linguistic groups. Compare to lets say east Asia where its very homogenous.

[@Prospektism]

You are wrong that Papuan have no reps in government Indonesian military in Papua are composed of locals, they have local governor, local chief of police and also local military general. There are also many politician from Papua become a minister in the central government. Papua is Indonesia, they own their land.. Cntral govt even sent billion of dollars every year for development in Papua.

[@hazejm]

Hi, can you do about Malaysia next? Great video and pretty accurate historical facts there. Good job!\

[@mukhtar__]

A+ production quality! keep up the amazing work!

[@mujahidmahmood2444]

Absolutely amazing. Mind doing a video on the Balochistan province of Pakistan?

[@hajajajaj9558]

oh boy i didn't expect this video to not getting blocked in my country lmao

[@cancelconservatism7041]

Is it blocked?

[@jogoegel1279]

i've heard that things are getting better now in west papua in terms of economic and relations with the government

[@selinaaura3301]

.The video is very good, I liked that from the start you made Chanel, but as an (you know) I think it's not just an issue for West Papua (Papua) as a whole, it's the economy on the island of Java,areas that have natural resources, even roads are not smooth or passable even though they are rich areas, whether the local government is wrong or the central government. sorry my English so bad

[@eminemeatingmmswithotherem5879]

You forgot to mention the crimes committed against East Timor

[@lev_rzld_]

US + Australia : Yeah we will encourage you to conquer all over it, just prevent the communist spreading Indonesia : Ah yeah, really ? (Start the operation) Some decades after USSR collapse US + Australia : Hey, what you do is a whole crime against humanity Indonesia : Wtf, you told me to do it

[@zhafranhanif5509]

Governors of papua are always native papuans so i dont know where you get the papuan never had representative, also 3 papuan were at the 1928 youth pladge.

[@zhafranhanif5509]

and dont forget about the governor ruled since 2013 to 2023 who got caught because of corruption

[@worlds3061]

@@zhafranhanif5509 Remember this video was made entirely by the western point of view, of course there will be bias

[@prfm_setya95]

thanks for these insights, of course these informations is not aligned 100% with my world-view (yeah, I tend to bias as an Indonesian, great vid!)

[@muchamadadchan4941]

I think you miss one important moment of Indonesia nation state development . It is 'Sumpah Pemuda' or 'Youth Pledge' on October 1928.

[@lebien4554]

In the immortal words of Nigel Powers: "There are only two things I can't stand in this world: People who are intolerant of other people's cultures, and the Dutch"

[@queen84sasha]

Ugh racist

[@sirihsirih4938]

Indeed IMPRESSIVE the amount of racists in here (not)

[@margrietvanbaal7984]

EDIT: Before attacking me with assumptions at least have some decency to respond like you would speak to a person. There are different sides and interpretations to every situation and I’m just another person trying to understand a complex history. I am by no means trying to belittle anyone or invalidate anyone’s views or experience on the matter- I’m just asking for a deeper conversation about something not everyone is an expert on. I am NOT a bot and I am NOT being paid to spread propaganda. If anyone is willing to have a meaningful discussion about the topic, PLEASE do share your thoughts, but keep the childish finger pointing and unwarranted assumptions to yourselves. Thank you! -- Please please PLEASE do an expose series on Dutch colonialism. Everyone knows about the obvious British, French, Spanish, even American, but as a Dutchie myself I think the Netherlands still have a long ways to go in fully acknowledging their dark endeavors and providing reparations for it all. Most don’t even know or realize how much damage the Dutch did, and we were never taught much on it in school either (for obvious reasons). Fantastic work, and looking forward to more!

[@wenderis]

I belief a dutch history teacher channel (History Hustle) made several of these vids. Its a good start, more than decent for the utube audiences. More importantly, the teacher always recognized his bias in all of his videos.

[@mauritsvanoranje6725]

If I may ask, what is this damage that the Dutch have done that is not known about or taught?

[@mauritsvanoranje6725]

Rutte made it very clear in his speech that he was apologizing for the actions of the Dutch state in the past, not for the Dutch people today, and that reparations would not be made. I found it odd that you would bring up reparations because our prime minister made it very clear what our stance was on this, which you appear to be unaware of.

[@pincylakosi8832]

THESE KZbin channels are nothing but divide and conquer Western neo imperialists' propaganda. They try to play saints and angels now while their true motive is breaking up Indonesia, China, India etc. into mini countries that they can install puppet regimes they can control. LOOK at the fate of Native Americans and Australians now. Westerners should be ashamed of themselves before pointing fingers at Indonesians and Chinese on how we treat our minorities.

[@vierizona5772]

As an Indonesian that has father descent from Dutch, Dutch give many knowledge to pump water that helping people (also disaster in Jakarta for the future), Teach about how powerful European is (Gun), and teach how to cultivate European Market demand (with some oppression). My grandfather has many wealth, and there's community of Dutch in Indonesia that gain many land and wealth, but Bandung Lautan Api made all of Dutch property set on fire after independent, my Grandfather need to choose stay in Cimahi or go back to Dutch, he choose stay because his mom is too old while his uncles family go back to Dutch.

[@No14210]

I'm listening to the end of the video and reading the comment section, and it's pretty funny. I'm hearing about all the good things Indonesia now does for Papua, the representation of Papuans in the Indonesian government, the fact that many Papuans fought on the side of Indonesia, the money they pour into it, the infrastructure they build, the research Indonesia now does into "excessive" violence, the idea that this violence can be explained as a police action in response to "terrorism", the way they are trying to "prepare" and "guide" them towards more autonomy, the negative example of PNG next door, we are simply protecting these people from worse imperialists, endless whataboutisms, etc. It all sounds so familiar because they are all classic examples of colonial apologism that have been used in Europe for decades (although thankfully becoming less fashionable nowadays). It's also the same arguments that are being used by CCP apologists for Xinjiang and Tibet, and probably many other unfortunate examples of colonialism being perpetrated by people who are not white. This is not an attack on this video, I know the creator is not the one making this argument, but just reporting what is happening and what is being said. But it's interesting from the point of view of pattern recognition. Personally I'm not invested in which areas should be part of Indonesia and which should be independent. Indonesian nationhood is a fact now regardless of its relatively young origins, regardless of what territories it should have. Nation-states often get forged through blood, conquest and a little bit of hypocrisy. In the past people might have questioned the viability of the nationhood of e.g. Ukraine, but now nobody except the Russian government itself would doubt it. Redrawing national borders again and again has become less fashionable in recent years. Recent newly sovereign states have included the likes of South Sudan, Kosovo, Montenegro, East Timor, Eritrea, etc. Which of these can be considered undivided successes? There are always going to be victims and people ending up on the wrong side of the border, and there will never be ethnically pure states that everyone is happy to be a part of. Just from the point of view of self-determination, it's already incredibly hairy. Who would get to vote in a hypothetical independence referendum for West Papua, just ethnic Papuans or anyone currently living there? Should it be independent or merged with PNG, with which it has never been at unity and which has a lot of problems of its own (with a bit of fantasy, you could think of this as the Yugoslavia of the East, and it would probably end just as badly). In all this, we are dealing with the legacy of colonialism, as well as with the legacy of this ideal of self-determination from the American involvement in two world wars, that was enforced hypocritically and incompletely at the best of times.

[@chikalfebrianto]

ahh yess, nice video. i like it

[@Sanzzzzzzzzz]

Fun fact: After soeharto is down in 1998, gus dur replaced him. And at gus dur age he make chinese culture and confuonism is allowed and confusionism is added to 6 religion that are exist in indonesia, Gus dur make papua resistance is very low because he allow what they wan and that is don't send a lot of military on there and allow them to riss up the papuan flag but must not higher then indonesian flag. But a lot of Muslim extremist and "PDI" destroying gus dur, And then he replaced by "Mega wati" and that was nightmare not only because gus dur fall but because she become the president

[@Revolutionary_Fish]

The fact that Gus Dur is more left than PDI-P itself really shows that how corrupted the "Modern left" of indonesia is, the boomers of the government wasn't just stealing the people's money but they are the corrupted version of their old optimistic peoples. This teach us an lesson to keep being optimist and an better visionary rather than becoming an pragmatic and selfish individuals.

[@rizkyadiyanto7922]

my faavorite was when he visited israel.

[@Revolutionary_Fish]

@@rizkyadiyanto7922 Soeharto: Guys i am not totally supporting Western imperialism and it's Zionist cohorts Also Soeharto:

[@arionsudibyo6284]

As a fellow indonesian born in Papua, i really like this video

[@rvat2003]

Are you ethnic Papuan or from an ethnic group native outside of Papua? I'm also curious if average Indonesian's are finally aware of West Papua's desire for freedom.

[@shukshin_burgundian_system]

@@rvat2003 west papua will be sucked by the west if they got independence

[@antoniocipolla3259]

great video!!! Where do you find the archive footage?

[@iqbalpreneur]

Wow nice video

[@StefanoZora]

Uitstekende video! Dankje! I love that there's a perspective from all sides. Hats off to you from an Indo.

[@rvat2003]

Yeah, I wonder if West Papuan's desire to be independent is properly known by Indonesians.

[@matrohmat5249]

Indonesia is a country "created" by the Dutch. before that, the archipelago consisted of hundreds of sovereign kingdoms with their own languages

[@wisnuprasetyo3959]

Well put.

[@manafendrayuda6218]

hi i'm indonesian. i would rly love if you can make a video about the mass murder program of 1965. this is a major historical event that not many people know about indonesia that killed many leftists. this massacre killed many balinese people and feminists since they were affiliated with the communist party. yet, bali is a region where it is stacked with tourists and 5 star hotels underneath the dead bodies of genocide victims. so it would mean a lot to me. but i would understand if you hesitate to since it is a very taboo topic.

[@moordityamoordi9098]

I realize that, somehow Sir Suharto, and his regime did a worst mistake during "orba periods" but, it was very hard to ignore the fact that, without harsh treatment of Indonesian Resistances Groups, we might be ended up as a humanity worst catastrope, just like Yugoslavia, Libya, and Syiria. In the other hands, if we Indonesians just follows the way of US or EU progressive leftist, we might be also ended up on worst humanity disaster, like what happened in Yugoslavia.

[@TJMaxximalist]

More people died in Indonesia between 1965-66, many of them working-class farmers, than all of conflicts in Libya, Syria, and the Slavic Balkan countries combined. This is also a lazy comparison, as all these countries have very different histories. Syria is an authoritarian monarchy, Libya in a civil war after NATO interventions left a power vacuum, and Yugoslavia divided by ethnic tensions after decades of peace. Simply blaming these countries/regions problems on progressive politics is a ridiculous take. Millions lost their lives in Indonesia in a political genocide. It doesn't matter where you are ideologically to understand how awful it is to downplay these events.

[@MugroofAmeen]

Because of many people genuinely believe in Indonesia. Sumatrans, Borneans, Papuan, etc. all knew that if they become independent, we would all be preyed by US neocolonialism, or worse, we became Chinese naval bases. Unity is strength afterall.