There’s a Tax Season Villain, and It’s Not the I.R.S. | NYT Opinion

It’s the most miserable time of the year: tax season.
Americans are about to spend millions of hours and billions of dollars filing their federal income taxes, and they are pretty sure they know who is responsible for their pain: The misanthropes at the Internal Revenue Service.
But we’re here to convince you that the I.R.S. is not the problem.
Yes, it should be easy to file taxes. And yes, it should be free. That’s how it works in the rest of the developed world, and it could very easily work that way here, too. It is absurd that America’s tax system is so antiquated and complicated that most people must pay someone else to help them pay the government.
So what is standing in the way of progress?
Watch.
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[@johnnyharris]

Love working with the Times. I always learn a ton. Thanks for this great collab!

[@Peritye]

youre welcome, bro.

[@dustyrabbit9234]

awesome combo!

[@jonathanfiore]

Great video Johnny!

[@BobMori]

Excellent work.

[@SaccoMabowles]

"collab". There's no collab with corporations, and much less with one that's so blatantly propagandistic like them or you. Enjoy your shekels, son.

[@mahzabinmannan9376]

America needs to stop sugarcoating the term "bribery" to lobbying.

[@nlocnil3602]

They took corruption and legalised it and gave it a word and then call other governments corrupt 😂

[@Xeonerable]

The wealthy control the media outlets which distort the narrative. "lobbying" "job creators" etc..

[@BogdanOfficalPage]

Bribery would mean it’s done in secret

[@darkchocolate3390]

I mean, there is a legal difference between lobbying and bribing.

[@aaronpearson1744]

​​@@darkchocolate3390 A legal difference. The most arbitrary type of difference

[@ciaobella468]

I got a turbotax ad before this video lmao

[@jakobhouchin897]

same

[@iskufila306]

I was just laughing about that 😂

[@nikoref8316]

Get a vpn and put it to Albania. No youtube ads if you do!

[@cmair77]

😂😂😂😂😂

[@chrisgradone]

Same here!

[@jimdoe8770]

Why is this not a bigger story? In 2013 while going to school for Accounting, I had to study the various tax systems in different countries. It's an open secret that the U.S. keeps taxes complex for tax service companies --- at the U.S. citizens' expense.

[@stainlesssteellemming3885]

You answered your own question: "Why is this not a bigger story? .... It's an open secret that ..." Basically because this is not new news. It's been this way for decades and everyone already knows it. It's like saying "The sun came up this morning. Why is this not a bigger story?"

[@Annoyed_Human]

​@@stainlesssteellemming3885👏🏽 👏🏽 👏🏽

[@jimdoe8770]

@@daotheeternalnamelessbeyon8778 That's pretty diabolical!

[@MrTweetyhack]

the US keeps everything complex to delude the citizens. Criminal law is complex so only the rich are able to get away with crime

[@courtneyrowe3229]

John Oliver did a big episode on it years ago. Obviously didn't change anything.

[@aheroictaxidriver3180]

This is simple: we have TWO political parties, that BOTH work for the corporations, and NEITHER works for the people.

[@chuco915C]

How do we fix that?

[@laurarincon3424]

Do people actually think that the rest of the world files taxes the same way?! I was shocked when I moved to the US and people explained taxes and returns to me. Also, apparently people think about tax refunds as “free money”. No, it’s an interest free loan you gave the government.

[@shumoon1]

It's not that simple. The withholding definitely is an interest free loan to the government, but refundable credits like Earned Income Credit (EIC) are definitely viewed as free money because the taxpayer did not contribute to it. EIC is a big deal for a lot of people.

[@FighterFlash]

I will never use turbo tax or Inuit

[@themarcusismael13]

It’s also free loans and grants to other taxpayers from other taxpayers. The mortgage interest deduction is the single largest cash transfer from working people to wealthy people in the United States.

[@shumoon1]

@@themarcusismael13 Then again, isn't every transaction involving interest a transfer of wealth from those with less money to those with more money?

[@SubvertTheState]

So free tax preparation is actually on the deep web.

[@ssbohio]

"But the tax preparers and accountants will be out of work." They can do productive work instead. It's not an insurmountable obstacle. Changing jobs is possible.

[@reofi]

Can confirm that countries with a portal service for lodging tax returns still have personal tax accountants. There are still specific tax situations that people want help navigating

[@jerico1299]

Accountants do a lot more than file taxes, and businesses and some individuals will still have situations in which tax professionals would be needed. It isn't about accountants and tax proffesionals losing their jobs. It is about large corporations not being able to profit off of something they shouldn't have been allowed to profit off of to begin with.

[@ssbohio]

@@jerico1299 People have voiced that objection over this, that accountants and tax preparers will lose work, as nonsensical as it is. I agree with you completely. There's so much else that an accountant can do. Why should they be tied up doing actually useless work like filling out tax returns.

[@D_Winds]

There are too many Americans who believe they should sit behind a desk and pull 6 figure salaries for telling others to do productive work.

[@triadwarfare]

This is similar to how creative workers like artists and writers are afraid of AI. They love their job. They don't want to do anything else. They are afraid that change is coming and they don't want their work to suddenly become devalued at the expense of everybody else.

[@xavier_lucas]

I am 53 and retired at 50. 1 thing I did do to retire early was to get out of the 401K and IRA programs. Bought rental real-estate and I am now a Limited Partner in about 3500+ units. I do not work.

[@simone_maya]

I only contribute 5% to get full company match, that’s it. The 401K plan is designed for you to work until you are about dead. Also, the government does not have their hands on it yet either.

[@Muller_Andr]

My wife and I live off of our 401K. We don't work. I recommend highly to everyone to build your 401K or Roth IRA's as an alternate revenue stream in retirement to your Social Security. An observation on 401K's is when it gets over 300K it starts to accelerate. When you get over 500K it can really accelerate as the stock market grows.

[@FranciszekPawal]

If I may ask, as in withdrew all of the money from the 401K and IRA programs? If so, what was your strategy behind that decision? Thank you.

[@xavier_lucas]

I learned about government actions from certified wealth manager in NY by MonicaMaryStrigle. Ms. Strigle explained the benefits of long-term Treasuries and alternative investments, which the government doesn't disclose.

[@xavier_lucas]

I learned about government actions from certified Advsr in NY by Monica Mary Strigle. Ms. Strigle explained the benefits of long-term Treasuries and alternative investments, which the government doesn't disclose.

[@Myst109]

yet again, the big solution that no one has the BALLS to actually DO is to make lobbying illegal and stop allowing deep pockets to affect policymaking

[@Vivek-zw3ex]

I moved out from the US to Malaysia 10 years ago. In Malaysia, I filed my taxes by going to the government portal, my income details were automatically populated from my tax ID number, and I just had to enter in any deductions I was eligible to claim. It literally took 5 minutes and I was done. From Malaysia, I moved to the UK. In the UK, I don't even have to do that. Taxes are automatically deducted based on my earnings, to the exact penny, and there's no need to file any sort of return whatsoever. There's a separate government portal for claiming deductions, and you can claim for up to the last five tax years at once. The USA is living in the 1800s.

[@kth6736]

Exact same for India. Takes about 30 mins.

[@benjaminvagg8514]

Sorry, its easy for your government to take your money whenever they like? This is propaganda to stop you from questioning the amount of tax you actaully pay and what your actually elligible to get back, if you don't fight for your own case, then the government just takes... Go back to Sheep.

[@billbadson7598]

_"I moved out from the US to Malaysia 10 years ago. In Malaysia, I filed my taxes by going to the government portal, my income details were automatically populated from my tax ID number, and I just had to enter in any deductions I was eligible to claim. It literally took 5 minutes and I was done."_ I use TurboTax in the US, and my return also filled out instantly with my ID number on my W2. All I had to fill out were my deductions (if I wanted)

[@xandror]

The key difference is American congressmen are paid hundreds of millions of dollars in bribes to keep things the way they are and keep businesses like health insurance companies, big pharma, and turbo tax going forever. It's Serpico on a giant scale.

[@killerwhale__]

​​@@billbadson7598either you're a bot or you don't understand the video

[@ritokazoriv]

The Dutch tax authority's slogan is: "we cannot make it more pleasant, but we can make it easier"

[@TheRealJBMcMunn]

Sounds like an anesthesiologist. 😂

[@TheRealJBMcMunn]

On second thought, it could also be the motto of the Guild of Compassionate Rapists. Different rates for Cosby Style (drugged), Epstein Style (might or might not be drugged and/or human trafficking). Then branch out into Hunter Biden Style, Clinton Style, Bob Barker Style, etc.

[@nicodesmidt4034]

@@TheRealJBMcMunnas long as it works 😂

[@ferahl]

The new NL gov site looks like it was strongly influenced by UK one, which is the best on earth and way ahead of its time (been that modern for more than 10yrs). Here in HK the gov systems seem like they haven't been updated since 1997.

[@Mark-nc2nx]

Gewoon hun kantoren afbranden kijken of het leuker kan.....

[@user-sh9im1wc3e]

As an american who’s lived and worked in Germany and the UK, I have realized that the concept of a default tax refund is also very American. These countries operate on a pay as you go tax system where the taxes taken from your salary are always up to date. Americans are essentially giving an interest-free loan to the government and (currently) forced to pay to file to get it back. If we assume an average tax refund of $1,200, that’s $100 too much given to the IRS each month that could have been spent on bills, investments, etc. which is held hostage until most people pay TurboTax for the luxury of getting it back. Here in Europe, in most cases, people with one full time job have no requirement to file complicated tax forms and don’t get a refund because they were already taxed accurately from the start. Then there’s the fact that Americans abroad still need to file their taxes to avoid penalties and risk being double-taxed, even if they don’t live or work there, which is a whole different can of worms.

[@ericcarlson6822]

I became aware of these issues several years ago. Since then, I have done my taxes by hand. For me, the hassle of doing the calculations myself is more than offset by knowing that I am denying corrupt companies my money, which they will use to buy off lawmakers to make life worse for everyone. My hatred of corruption is the fuel that keeps me going when taxes get annoying to do.

[@jimenealtd7113]

Corrupt companies? There's plenty of small business tax accounting firm who are not corrupt and/or dishonest, or just keep on doing it by hand so that an IRS clerk has to input it, then that clerk makes sure it gets an agent review.

[@gsdavis91]

@@jimenealtd7113 The entire baroque process is backwards and corrupt: We have to do this because of lobbying on behalf of companies that shouldn't exist in the first place. It's as if humans had to keep digging holes with toothpicks instead of shovels because a toothpick lobby forced congress to ban shovels. In that sense, any company that profits from this absurdity is corrupt.

[@hannahwatkins7992]

​@@jimenealtd7113 You like to argue just for the sake of arguing, don't you? They never said all tax accounting companies are corrupt/dishonest. They're saying they do their own taxes to avoid the ones that are. Also, why would they want to pay anyone (small business or not) to do what they've already been doing themself?

[@TheOMT]

"It has made an industry out of something that ought to be a public service." This is at the core of so, so many of the Western world's social problems.

[@_prototyp]

But the US just does it in different scale, than anybody else

[@victortoba-ogunleye4056]

nah largely the US.A

[@Travelbyailsa]

@@_prototypdefinitely

[@dianegreen1937]

Exactly!

[@AkshayAradhya]

And also where most of the innovation comes from, because private companies always do a better job than the government.

[@lseh4720]

When my daughter was 6 years old, I heard her walk down our hallway, angrily exclaiming, “I hate taxes!!!” Trying not to laugh, I ran after her and asked her why, to which she responded, “Because it makes you and Baba fight.” 😂. I told her we were simply intense, trying to get our paperwork in order. Still, she walked away muttering, “I still hate taxes!”

[@Brian-bp5pe]

What a very intelligent and perceptive child she was!

[@TheOtherNamesWereTaken123]

How old is she now?

[@milliedragon4418]

Even she couldn't handle the taxes! 😂

[@SL420-]

Don't fight over taxes, there's plenty of other things to fight about.

[@lseh4720]

@@SL420- Not fighting at all, just intense getting docs. :-)

[@Spidertech500]

I love how the entire piece glossed over the problem that the taxes are so complex in the first place No, don't blame the IRS, don't blame regulators, don't blame Congress Blame Intuit Intuit is the minion in this story, not the head villain

[@rfichokeofdestiny]

Like all of these corporatist scenarios, it's a symbiotic relationship. Accountants would still exist. Pharmaceutical companies would still exist. But the state becomes a prize to be won because the money/power is concentrated in one place. For the state's part, those businesses help keep them in power. Every successful revolution has had buy in from at least some of the upper middle class and elite. Keeping corporations happy is a way of staving that off.

[@oldfreddyfrenchfry1]

Exactly, the gov makes taxes complicated and painful - I can’t change that aside from voting, so I’m stuck with that. So, the reality is that if I want the glorious convenience, I have to pay for the work a private company created to make it easier. After all, I don’t trust the gov could make a better system.

[@mithicash1444]

No,it's all of the above including intuit. And on a side note, how is intuit not a monopoly?

[@rfichokeofdestiny]

@@mithicash1444 Because other tax preparers exist.

[@tomfeng5645]

@@oldfreddyfrenchfry1 Simple way to force gov to do better: they give a number that is binding for them, you can counter-claim. That's how it works nearly everywhere else. If you don't trust it because your situation is complicated or whatever, check the number yourself or pay a company to do that and appeal if the number is actually wrong; otherwise, if the number is about correct, it's not worth anyone's effort to recalculate it. Right now, it is in the gov interests to make it as complicated as possible since if you file too much tax, they keep it, if you file too little, they get to fine you for more than the missing amount. Turn the interests around and watch it smooth out.

[@mightybatillo]

This seems unreal to me. Here in Mexico you dont have to make anything unless you earn more than 400k (pesos) a year. Taxes are deducted automatically from your salary and everything you buy already has the taxes included in the price

[@cjrreid]

The huge part this video didn't mention was that H&R Block and Intuit are huge proponents of *_why_* the tax code is so complicated in the first place. They don't only lobby *_against_* public service tax filing, they also lobby *_for_* any changes that could make the tax code more confusing.

[@michaelk969]

You have the history of this issue EXACTLY backwards. First came the complicated tax code (created by politicians and lobbyists). Then came the tax programs that eased the burden of filing of tax returns. The federal income tax was instituted in 1913. IRS code and tax returns were complicated well before personal computers were available for ordinary citizens to use them to do their taxes. It is absolutely false to claim that the tax code is complicated because some companies profit from the laws created by the government.

[@joeblogs6598]

@cjrreid If we got rid of the government, there'd be nothing to lobby in the first place. Have you considered this?

[@EmZh20]

You probably don't understand the tax code nearly enough to actually understand how complex the tax code is.

[@TheRealJBMcMunn]

When you sell vertical software it's tremendously helpful to have annual government-mandated changes. Everyone has to buy an upgrade or risk prosecution. So you bribe some politicians or Swamp bureaucrats to add or delete some billing codes, or change reimbursement calculations. Now everyone has to upgrade their financial software. They have sunk costs in your proprietary software. The upgrade costs less than a new system. It's a captive base because the hassle of changing software is conversion from one proprietary database to another and training the staff on how to use the new system. The price differential between two vertical software systems depends not only on relative merit of the program, but the cost of transition to a competing system.

[@jeffa847]

Don't forget the AICPA

[@sgt.afrobeard]

It’s interesting how the answer to the question, “why doesn’t this system work in America”, seems to 90% of the time be “because of a private company” 😂

[@norman_5623]

Because of a big lobby.

[@TexasRiverRat31254]

@@norman_5623 Because of both! Private companies paying lobbyists to bribe politicians. And it's all legal.

[@seanzigmund858]

Intuit is a public company, not private. And if you check their stock symbol you'll see their stock is at an all time high. Corporations control our lives and it should be stopped. Politicians become lobbyists, corporate executives become politicians, lobbyists become corporate gears to drive the American machine into the pockets of the rich. It's a scam at the highest level of pyramid schemes and it's sickening. Look at our last president. Disgusting.

[@jon9103]

​@@norman_5623 Lobbyists are just another symptom.

[@googiegress7459]

And, in a surprisingly large number of cases, the answer is also "Reagan".

[@therealuncleowen2588]

This story is similar to the way private health insurance companies provide a service at much higher cost to Americans then the government could provide it for. Their profits hurt most Americans.

[@Viconius]

Governments have never provided anything cheaply. Private companies could if the government actually had rules that lobbyists couldn't buy their way through, like all the industrial complexes in place. Taxes, Health, Military, Agriculture, Education etc. Big Business + Big Government.

[@archangel9363]

America - the only country that slashes it's own education budget, then punishes it's people for being bad at math.

[@Macphotographs]

A trillion dollars a year on education, almost 20k a student and you think money is the problem? You must have gone to public school in America.

[@archangel9363]

@Macphotographs But how much of that budget goes TOWARDS actual public schools, instead of being funneled into private schools, conservative-charter schools, and for-profit colleges/universities...? Even if it's being "overfunded" it's very clearly going to the wrong places.

[@Wr41thgu4rd]

Corruption is the problem, across the board.

[@Macphotographs]

@@archangel9363 that's all just k-12 and according to the dept of Education, less then 8% of schools are charter. Don't let facts get in the way of your narrative though. You obviously have it all figured out.

[@Barskor1]

America has not slashed the education budget ever the Teachs Union lobbies harder than any other to keep their cash cow milked.

[@McsMark1]

This is not just Turbo Tax. There are 672,587 CPA's in America who don't want simple filing. There's H&R Block & 124,371 Tax Preparation Services businesses in the US as of 2023. That's who you're fighting.

[@GenghisKahn]

Imagine investigating into Taxes and not mentioning CPAs once. These guys literally wanted to make a hit piece on Intuit and didn't even identify the true problem... Just the way we CPAs like it.

[@itlabs2351]

@@GenghisKahn were you not paying attention? its called lobbying. being a cpa doesnt give any power unless youre part of a lobby. there are cpa unemployed and struggling like the rest of us. lol.

[@GenghisKahn]

@@itlabs2351 I think you misinterpreted my point... In order to explain myself I now have to divulge the CPA secret sauce... Most of us are part of the AICPA and/or some local association for our state (Many firm partners have no option and are required to depending on the services they provide)... Those member dues fund a massive ton of lobbying and gatekeeping... The fact Intuit is taking the hit is hilarious given they don't have the control people think... We CPAs are like ninjas, in social environments no one cares... In one of the services we're experts in and still, no one cares...

[@GenghisKahn]

@@itlabs2351 Exactly, Intuit is the massive lobbying monster. We CPAs we are just like you, unemployed and poor. We are a disorganized mess with no control.

[@waikikinz]

As a non American, I am surprised how one single company could bribe (or lobby?) and continue annoying all tax payers just to make money... what the heck ? And why no politician have enough balls to make this stop ?

[@mattcrouch8984]

their balls generally wind up in the pocket of someone quite quickly after coming into office if they had any to begin with

[@AlecsNeo]

The US is build for companies , not for people. Land of the free ways to milk citizens

[@sn5301679]

Wait till you know there plenty of similar case there, like internet, car sales, even trains. Land of "free"doom

[@garzdiva]

Every politician has "balls" until the checks start coming to their campaigns and all the backdoor deals ensuring generational wealth for their families start happening. Then suddenly they find "other pressing issues" to focus on 😂.

[@scottmac]

Wait til you hear about our healthcare and pharmaceutical industries

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I agree that there are strategies that could be put in place for solid gains regardless of economy or market condition, but such executions are usually carried out by investment experts or advisors with

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Queridafx analyses go beyond surface-level trends. She delves into technical, fundamental, and sentiment analysis, providing a holistic view of the market..

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[@randyh801]

Imagine either scenarios: 1) The IRS makes their own TurboxTax at the cost of something like $20M. The US taxpayers get a free and simply solution for filing their taxes and the IRS lays off hundreds or thousands of auditors because the number of mistakes plummets. 2) The tax code is dramatically simplified, so even a small business owner can file their taxes on their own in just an hour or two (if they've kept good records). Again, the IRS would be able to lay off hundreds or thousands of uneccesary auditors.

[@charlesmills6621]

Most of the unemployed ''auditors'' can revert to their former source of income. Welfare.

[@Xeonerable]

US taxes are overly complicated because there's a spiderweb of loopholes for rich people to maximize their savings.

[@TheBUGZNTA]

All people. The rich may benefit more but even "poor" people can take advantage of the tax code. Ie tax credits for children, mortgage interest ect. If you want it to be simple submit your w-2 to the irs and thats it. It only becomes complicated if you want to take deductions to lower the amount you owe to the government.

[@93runninggiraffes]

@@TheBUGZNTA .... yeah, because us poors have mortgages to pay 🙄

[@espanadorada7962]

@@93runninggiraffesmaybe not, but poor people sure do make a lotta babies

[@tw8464]

Exactly

[@andreyd8116]

This is the truth.

[@isabellatorres2585]

You will never guess which company got an ad to play at the end of this video.

[@ssgg23]

Yup got the same ad lmao

[@hondaguy9153]

Turbo tax or H&R block?

[@mac23806]

Well this is the NYtimes were talking about

[@RannonSi]

@@mac23806 Unless it's part of the video, I'm pretty sure that's up to Google, and not NYT

[@overshot8331]

people don't want to admit it but most people are definitely influenced by ads much more than they would like to believe.

[@TheJackal917]

U.S. tax code is the most complicated piece of legislation ever written in the history of humanity.

[@WelseyWalker]

I'm so happy I made productive decisions about my finances that changed my life forever,hoping to retire next year.. Investment should always be on any creative man's heart for success in life

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[@ivar766]

I really want to get my life together. Really me and my family has been into series of hardship, we've faced a lot of trials and tribulations and my income is not just enough

[@potatopirate5557]

Gee, it all came down to corporate greed and lobbying... who would have ever guessed that... in the United States. 🤯 It's just tiring at this point. 😮‍💨

[@joeblogs6598]

Nope, it all comes down to the source of taxation: Government. How can you not understand this?

[@twistedspine7300]

@@joeblogs6598 they are called useful idiots for a reason

[@Kevin-oj2uo]

Taxation needs to exist.

[@potatopirate5557]

@@Kevin-oj2uo I never said it didn't

[@user-zu5do6ri6r]

Taxing income is a fine for being useful to society.

[@dennisp8520]

What’s crazy to me about taxes is that the government already knows what I owe them or what they owe me. So I don’t understand why they can’t just tell me that and just let me pay. If their is a situation where write offs are required then have a person go through the process

[@shinthantmusic]

I was thinking the same thing. On a same page with you on this. The problem is with the lobbyists manipulating the Gov'.

[@kyleperez4959]

One time I made a mistake filing my taxes. The IRS sent me a letter telling me that my form didn't match their own internal one, and they pointed out the exact mistake I had made and that I should make corrections. That got me a bit mad, since it meant that I've been wasting hours of my life over filling out tax forms that the government has already filled out.

[@JediOfTheRepublic]

@@kyleperez4959 You should probably proof read

[@JeffCaplan313]

So that rich people can lie, cheat and steal.

[@JeffCaplan313]

​@@kyleperez4959 The rich get richer while the poor get poorer.

[@ConsciousConversations]

One of the greatest bits of journalism because it is SO NEEDED for Americans! And so relatable. This week twice I’ve been in this same headspace. And every year the same events described have occurred. And every time I walk away or cry in frustration with the whole thing, I hate Turbo tax but I’ve always felt like I had zero options.

[@alor5009]

As a tax accountant it is scary to think about losing my job for the sake of my family and having to figure out another career late in life, but I have to agree with the moral issue of charging a “toll” for taxes.

[@MatthewCordesEA]

I always say "As long as lawyers are in charge of creating tax law, I'll never be out of a job." If accountants were in charge, the system would be simplified and we could work on bookkeeping and accounting for small businesses.

[@chuco915C]

How do you sleep at night? lol

[@MatthewCordesEA]

@@chuco915C This time of year? I don't! 😂😭

[@Tensei888]

“The government cannot be trusted to tell Americans how much they owe in taxes” But they’re ok with IRS confirming whether the amount TurboTax has prepped for you is correct, because IRS has the original data (if you work for an employer), they did the math, and they have the final say on the correct taxation amount.

[@norman_5623]

It really is entertaining to watch these PR firms come up with an excuse to justify their client taking more money from you.

[@TheRisky9]

This begs the question, if the firm messed up the taxes, am I on the hook for that? Are there any repercussions for the firm that did those taxes wrong?

[@funnyfarm5555]

I have long been an advocate for a 'flat tax'. It will work for most people, but the more one does to increase their income by investing and such, then it starts getting complicated. I think the flat tax would still work, maybe with investments too. I still think that there should be a national portal. I spend a lot of time getting all the information together, putting it in a spreadsheet and then visiting my income tax preparer/submitter. A tax preparer I used to use made a mistake on my taxes a few years back and cost me about 12 hours of time and a trip to the state tax office, and creating an online tax account. Last year the State tax office made me submit all my W-2's and 1099's again after having the tap prep do it through their computer system. They said they needed to verify that the taxes were actually paid. Why does the employer and companies send the information to them?; for toilet paper? I got my refund four months later. There has to be an easier way for Americans to pay taxes.

[@Redmanticore]

this counts as taxation, too: "turbo tax Full-Service, premium : $379 Federal $64 Per State "

[@user-zu5do6ri6r]

We are not ok with the IRS under any set of circumstances.

[@hbarudi]

1. Corporations pass laws in their favor to remain in business instead of allowing the government to pass laws people want such as simplified income tax. Of course the IRS and the government can do things better if there is less things on the tax return, the tax rate is a flat rate for all incomes, and stop listening to corporate lobbyists in congress and make sure congress passes the needed bills on this. 2. Employees should be paying the income taxes not employers.

[@delphic464]

Me: Do you know how much I made last year and how much tax I owe you? Govt: Of course! Me: Great! How much is that? Govt: Oh, you need to work that your for yourself by completing incredibly complicated forms and paying someone else to help you. Me: Ok. What if I make a mistake Govt: You might go to jail if the number you get is different from the number we have.

[@penguinking4830]

The one that always gets me is the State scam. "Congratulations on completing your Federal tax return. Now for a mere $100 more, turbo tax can roll your return into the state format and file it for you electronically right now. Your other option is to do the entire state return from scratch like you just did for the Federal Return." They wear me down every year.

[@stainlesssteellemming3885]

Umm, then maybe this is a you problem, not a turbotax problem? My state return takes about 5 minutes to double check what turbo-tax has rolled over from the federal one and it's basically just clicking no/yes/continue on each page. Not to mention how much it pulls in from previous years, importing W2's etc. Pretty much been that way for over 20 years. Every year, I do the taxes for my wife and I plus two adult kids. One purchase of a "federal + 1 state" turbotax, all 3 returns use the free federal e-filing, the kids mail in their state returns (cost of two stamps and some paper/ink) and we pay the extra to efile our State return. Why do we efile our state return? Because we always get a bigger state refund than we owe on federal so it's a cash flow thing. If I owe on both, then it's paper returns all the way. The choice to pay for e-filing State is mine, not Intuit's. And I get all three returns done in a few hours.

[@westlestrest6442]

​@stainlesssteellemming3885 "the choice to pay is mine not Intuit's". This is what they make you believe. Why should you have to pay to file in the first place? This is what the video is talking about. This is something the government is forcing us to do "file taxes" without a free alternative

[@stainlesssteellemming3885]

@@westlestrest6442 The "free" alternative is a first class stamp and an envelope. In fact, I think you can even drop them off at your local IRS office.

[@westlestrest6442]

@stainlesssteellemming3885 Yeah and that's what the video was talking about. Because they make it so complicated I have to rely on this software. How am I expected to read a 120 page manual and file this correctly? That's ridiculous. If they make it this complicated then the government should be able to provide a software just as good as Intuit's with our tax money then.

[@stainlesssteellemming3885]

@westlestrest6442 The vast majority of people can get away with the basic 1040EZ form, which has a perfectly good set of instructions. For those who need the traditional 1040, it stil has good instructions and, again, most people will take the standard deduction, and their taxes are simple. If your tax situation is getting complex enough that you need to read the tax code, then you probably should be thinking about an accountant, tax consultant or , yes, turbotax. And, sorry, this is the form of government we keep voting for. We WANT our politicians to make thinkgs complex in order to create loopholes for their rich friends. We must do, be cause we keep rewarding them by electing them,

[@thibaudda]

Every day I'm discovering new weird problems that America has for no reason and that nobody else on earth could have guessed

[@lamMeTV]

Don't you dare drag Johnny by calling him a journalist. He actually researches, consuslts with sources and fact checks.

[@nlocnil3602]

In what other country can a company directly pay government officials to push an agenda openly and its not viewed as corruption? How are Americans so comfortable with the concept of Lobbying and the use of it as normal?

[@SladeShadows]

We aren't comfortable with it it's a combination of lack of money/power or interest in politics and live in America being a loose representation of the proletariat class referenced in Goerge Orwell 1984 compounded with other factors.

[@kingduckford]

Every last country on the face of the earth. Are you naive?

[@nigachu8249]

New York times is one of them.

[@MonkeyMind69]

We are not comfortable with it. However, too many people lack the introspection to realize their own cognitive dissonance around the subject, or they are cowards, unwilling to challenge the status quo of government through civil disobedience or outright revolt. People have been coddled into thinking it's someone else's problem to deal with, unwilling to take any responsibility themselves. Same goes for "income-taxes". The United States was founded over the rebellion of a simple tea tax ...and now, U.S. citizens are taxed nearly 40% of their income through various obvious and not so obvious means. Try this simple mental exercise.... First, ask yourself what is sIavery, and I mean REALLY comprehend it ...then understand that Income tax is *laboring for the government under threat of punishment if you don't comply.* Notice any similarities?

[@ernestz.9260]

It’s just there’s too much money to be made and those in power do a really good job framing it as a partisan issue (eg “socialism”, “govt overreach”). With how social media and mainstream news sensationalizes things to make people react negatively to things, and hence why honest opinions are not being common in discourse.

[@probablynotian]

"Taxation without representation" turned into "taxation so complicated there's an entire industry built around the fact that you can't do it on your own."

[@matthewboyer4212]

and still without representation if you're living abroad! expats still pay federal taxes until they renounce their citizenship, we and only 4 other countries do this and because of the electrical college, they can't vote in presidential elections

[@joeblogs6598]

Taxation has always been theft.

[@PharticusMcbutt]

It’s just like the National Association of Realtors. Their professional services are no longer needed in the modern era so in order to stay in business they overcomplicate the industry. Absolute BS

[@hannahwatkins7992]

This is so eye opening, and upsetting. Thank you for bringing this to light.

[@onemoreguyonline7878]

Man, this is the type of reporting I would pay to receive. This is great.

[@davidb3979]

In the UK, people aren't even asked what their taxes are. The majority of people don't ever have to think about it. Ever! This is because we use "tax codes" where the employer is told to deduct the correct tax for each person from salaries. We don't pay tax on gifts, or gambling winnings! So the tax system is designed to mean most people won't ever need to even think about taxes!

[@TheRealJBMcMunn]

So they invisibly pick your pocket and you're OK with that? No wonder the Brits think their healthcare is free.

[@kth6736]

I worked in UK for 6 years. The only interaction I had with HMRC was when I had to ask for a refund for my pension contributions. PAYE is awesome.

[@majermike]

*land of the free

[@DonaldMains]

it's the same in the US, the employer is told to deduct the correct tax for each person from salaries. The only complication is when there is income earned from non-reportable sources; income from rentals, etc. True, for the 70% of Americans who can file a 1040EZ it could be easier.

[@CanadianEhHole]

That's called a withholding tax and it works the same way in most countries, including the US. While it makes taxes easier, it limits the public's knowledge of how much they're actually paying in taxes. Funny that this video comes out about making taxes more simplified when the NYT, among many others, mocked politicians like Rand Paul and Herman Cain who've suggested making the tax law only a few pages, simplifying the laws themselves which would simplify the process. Just another case of the NYT mocking solutions and then complaining about the problem those solutions would've fixed.

[@munyumbamutwale2985]

In Zambia we just launched our free internet portal for paying taxes and my goodness it has been the best thing for all of us. Paying taxes is now a JOY.

[@munyumbamutwale2985]

@momytik We have something called the government bus that has 300 of the 1500 government services on it. they are just slowly loading the rest.

[@Korodarn]

Economic freedom is low, costs of starting a business are high, currency is being devalued even by comparison to the ridiculous USD, none of those are good... but it's good you can pay those people easily I guess. And if I'm wrong about any of this, Zambia will get better and I'd be glad for it.

[@victoronyemechi]

​@@Korodarnwomp womp 😂 jealous much cuz they have a better filing system

[@PatG-xd8qn]

​@@Korodarn And they save millions in government expenses that can be reinvested elsewhere and they free tens of thousands of people who can work on other things than wasting their time filling and reviewing tax fillings. The tax system in the US and Canada is a huge waste of time and resources. It costs billions and monopolizes tens of thousands of people who waste their time doing something that could be calculated automatically.

[@JediOfTheRepublic]

@@PatG-xd8qn Then go live in Zambia.

[@kentslocum]

Tax Season: The one time each year when I have to find a printer, stamps, and an envelope.

[@notatheist]

"...and each president has made the same promise. Bush, Obama, and now Biden..." A few years were skipped in there somewhere. It’s blurry, but I do remember something about gas prices being under $2.00 per gallon. I can’t put my finger on it. Who was that, again?

[@IndigoEuphonium]

Imagine being so despicable people actually wanna side with the IRS

[@violenthunter.]

this. this right here.

[@googiegress7459]

Turbotax undoubtedly has a cadre of telemarketers. These are the most hated of the Turbotax employees. What if one of them was a pedophile who talked on his cell phone in theaters? Surely this most unlikeable and horrible person will be the GOP presidential nominee.

[@yossimahler4650]

Only if you're a big media propaganda machine.

[@ceosgamer016_5]

​@@yossimahler4650yeah, yeah everything that shuld conser American people is propaganda ok bot

[@Redmanticore]

technically Internal Revenue Service itself could be disbanded when taxes would be handled automatically. simple automation would also catch the wealthiest, over half of all unpaid taxes are attributable to the top 5% of earners.(Source: U.S. Department of Treasury; Estimates from 2019) it is strange if TurboTax has _that_ much power over government, since our experience from europe is that simple taxation also increases tax revenues. turbo tax only provides some millions into lobbying few guys, but increased tax revenues would be billions.

[@ferrellssales180]

What's crazy is, they *already know* your tax information for the year. But instead of submitting it automatically like dozens of other developed nations, the onus is on regular non-tax professional citizens to make sure the numbers match up. Insane system. Paid tax services should only be for landlords and business owners.

[@ivandankob7112]

Or just pay Intuit to do taxes for you; that’s the whole point of a video

[@BikeHelmetMk2]

@@ivandankob7112 Most tax prep software and tax prep places miss things. A few times I have paid two places to do it, to see what the results were, but only got one to submit. It was always better to go for an accountant that costs 4 digits. They find ridiculously more writeoffs and resubmission tricks ("let's just move xxx from 2017 to 2019... there we go") and suddenly your income is lower and your tax burden evaporates. If you have stocks, real estate, a business - pay a professional, or you'll miss some useful legal loopholes.

[@lishan6199]

Intuit charges $30 or more dollars for any simple filing if you make over a certain amount, I could see $5 or $10 but $30+ at the minimum!@@ivandankob7112

[@Jay_in_Japan]

"Landlords and business owners" I smell a tankie

[@victorchen9170]

@@ivandankob7112 Why pay in the first place?

[@wdmm94]

Why else would anyone expect anything different in the land of B.S. and grift????

[@is0sceles]

If I am punching you in the face, and Doug comes along and offers you face-relief ointment for a small price, which you buy, and he gives me a cut of what he earned and whispers to me, "Hey, keep punching that face and I'll keep giving you a cut," who is at fault here? Doug? No. It's me, for punching you in the face. Not surprised NYT puts out a video blaming Intuit. And sure, they're partly in the wrong here, and they are doing something morally wrong. But the tax code being impossible to navigate for the 'average' person is far worse than what Intuit does. (But of course, I think most of the griping about the tax code is nonsense in the first place. The Standard Deduction isn't hard to use. Most purchases are also digitized at this point, so the days of the "crinkled up receipt" are gone too.)

[@emiliog.4432]

TurboTax charged me $170 for the privilege of owing the government back taxes.

[@overshot8331]

same. last year I tried Turbotax because I saw ads where they claimed they were free but they weren't. The website I found out from irs.gov free file allowed me to file taxes for free. The process was very similar to turbo tax except didn't have to pay hundreds for a simple federal and state return.

[@mattsberlioz]

As an Estonian, I can't imagine ever doing taxes like in the US. Usually I'm done with about 4 clicks which take me about 2 minutes (if I actually check the information).

[@Korodarn]

Also has a higher rank on economic freedom, so Estonia seems like it would be nice overall, in the long term.

[@seanthe100]

Do y'all get tax refunds?

[@carkawalakhatulistiwa]

Only US do this

[@JediOfTheRepublic]

This guys is really turning mountains into molehils. The average american, it's only a few clicks. It's if you own a business or have multiple jobs side hustles does it become a bit more complicated.

[@mattsberlioz]

@@seanthe100 yes

[@MiniaturePlayer]

We are so not a republic or democracy the more greed is allowed to rule our leadership. Makes me kinda sad.

[@marih3286]

So true. Thank you for confirming our suspicions...

[@noseraph]

I'm a paid tax preparer. Every year most of the folks who come into my office have pretty basic tax situations and I can crank each out in about an hour. I normally only get a handful of clients with complex returns and these are usually small business owners who don't have their own accountant and need to do things like calculate depreciation. My point is that 95% of the returns I do are simple ones that people could have done themselves if they had half a brain, but most people are so intimidated that they won't even try it.

[@PatG-xd8qn]

And all of this could be made automatically. As an accountant myself, I think that the North American tax system (it's the same here in Canada as un the US) is a huge waste of time and resources. It's way too complex for nothing and those who actually need all the tax credits generally aren't even aware that they can claim it.

[@itsbazyli]

I don't think it's just about being intimidated. Some people might simply prefer to delegate in order to save time, and focus on other things that are more important in life. Even if they can indeed do it themselves, it would take them more than the hour it takes for you, because they don't do hundreds of returns every year, like you do.

[@tw8464]

Most people don't have time to deal with it. Think of all the forms and red tape Americans have to go through now. It keeps getting added to constantly by the armies of special interests. Then think of how busy they are working low paying "jobs" and trying to raise kids, etc.

[@chublez]

​@tw8464 for many Americans who only worked one job and make avg or less it's one form. One. It's really not that hard to file a 1040. Only people who have never tried think it's some crazy mountain of papers. You need your wage statement(s) and a 1040 preferably on a computer cause it's 2024 but you do you and you'll be done in about an hour. But go pay the tax pro 5x yer burger king rate instead since it's hard. Edit: to be clear other countries do it better and we should also but a basic 1040 filling is easy the first time, easier the second, almost automatic the third. Only the top 15% or better usually have tax situations that start to get genuinely complicated.

[@twistedspine7300]

@@itsbazyli that's a very generous interpretation of the situation. the truth is, people are just way too lazy to put any effort into caring about their taxes or finances. they'd rather spend that time complaining in the comment section of a propagandized youtube video by the new york times.

[@billpetersen298]

This rhymes with. Why is healthcare twice as expensive, and not blanket coverage? Prisons, military, etc.

[@roadracerdave7645]

'murica!!!

[@WindFireAllThatKindOfThing]

The Legal system is the biggest industry designed as a public service, ever. The legal system exists for the Lawyers, not the Law.

[@finalGambitShedinja]

absolutely unfathomable that you could call something free, then require payment, and not be smitten out of business

[@skenzyme81]

Leave it to a MidLib to whinge about process instead of standing for principle. What a loser.

[@knutthompson7879]

"We know how much you owe, but you need to tell us. If you get it wrong, we punish you and you pay us more or even arrest you."

[@nikc1313]

America is wild. It's like the end boss of capitalism.

[@nlocnil3602]

I think even the final boss is afraid of American level of government greed and capitalism. It has ascended into the next dimension

[@mrizaldi7199]

Well said.

[@phishphood423]

Japan actually might be worse. But still, pretty wild.

[@nlocnil3602]

@@phishphood423 not in this lifetime pal. There is zero chance Japan is worse

[@phishphood423]

@@nlocnil3602 Unnecessarily condescending, but thanks for the input I guess? Japanese capitalism is just different - comprised of cartels and intimate relationships. In some ways it is harder to regulate than American capitalism for that reason.

[@iuras6642]

As a European, I can only say that the Americans have what they paid for. When I look at the IRS portal and it takes me a little more than a minute to file my returns, I start to really understand why you guys are so weird. Good luck for your future.

[@markrussell4682]

In Germany, you get a card from the taxing authority that states what you've earned, how much you owe in taxes, and how much you've paid. You either sign showing that you agree, or you claim an error, and you put it in the mail.

[@Shadowguy456234]

This is actually simpler than the case in Switzerland. I guess, not everything is better here... ;)

[@izay99]

The turbo tax ad right after this video... 10/10 😂

[@jd_real1]

The IRS DOES have a guided online tax filing system for people who make less than 79,000. It’s called IRS free file.

[@funtechu]

CashApp Tax is free for Federal and State regardless of how much you make

[@rao8559]

So we have a kek profile shilling for the IRS. I suppose that this characters fanbase in a nutshell

[@suckithardnfast]

@@rao8559 If you want to continue to pay Intuit your hard earned money, be my guest. Nobody said the government is going to shut down Intuit. Simply that there should be a free version instead. These corporations don't care about you! The only shill I see here is you. The IRS is not a boogeyman. Stop watching Fox News and get out more.

[@marycalderon3837]

Found it. Thanks

[@Shadowguy456234]

Doesn't work if you live abroad unfortunately.@@funtechu

[@jjcoolaus]

I’m Australian, I’ve never paid anyone to do my taxes, I do it myself like half of all taxpayers. If I have a question, there are helpful people at the Australian Taxation Office to call. It’s simple and easy

[@kingbran923]

I think we're well past making the process easier as Americans, we'd rather abolish the income tax as a whole. That makes more sense for everyone, and would change the dynamic of the government being entitled to the product of my labor just for being alive and earning a living. Screw the income tax, most Americans don't think the government deserves that money anyway considering how they constantly flaunt and waste it.

[@danschoenharl3856]

This is criminal! As an independent contractor, with a modest income, I spend $450.00 a year on tax prep and lose at least a days work, but probably much more, in the process of filing my taxes. I never claimed to be an accountant. In 1998, when I worked in Sweden, I simply received a summary letter for my taxes. That was nice, and though taxes were high, you got a lot for it. If the IRS, or more to the point our representatives, could get it together they could serve the tax payers and likely increase their revenue, while reliving Americans of this absurd accounting burden. Of course I'm going to pay my taxes, just stop torturing me with bureaucracy already!

[@jimenealtd7113]

If your tax accountant isn't saving you that $450 fee (which is a deduction) in your taxes and in your time vs you doing it yourself, then your tax accountant isn't worth crap.

[@danschoenharl3856]

My accountant does a fine job. I think you missed the point. I'm not trying to get out of paying my fair share, but assert that for citizens the US tax system is unnecessarily complicated, costly, time-consuming, bureaucratic and burdensome. @@jimenealtd7113

[@insu_na]

​@@jimenealtd7113he literally said he didn't have an accountant, can you read? Also great idea, let's pay an accountant $400 so he can get me a tax refund of $300

[@jimenealtd7113]

@@insu_na I can read and you can't, dope. He said this, "I spend $450.00 a year on tax prep and lose at least a days work, but probably much more, in the process of filing my taxes. I never claimed to be an accountant." Which means he paid an accountant $450 to do his self-employment tax return and had to take off a day to get it done. Then you stupidly say, "Also great idea, let's pay an accountant $400 so he can get me a tax refund of $300." So how about you don't pay an accountant who could get you a refund of $300, and do the self-employment return that you really don't understand yourself, and end up paying $1000 or whatever in taxes instead of getting any refund? Dumb Bunnies like you overpaying taxes because you're "penny-wise and pound-foolish" is what the IRS likes.

[@burlypenguin]

"a free filing software to low-income Americans but in their blog post announcing this they claimed that they're still committed to making a free filing platform nobody should believe that Intuit is ever going to seriously commit to offering a free version of its Core Business that would be suicidal for a company ." Now apply the same logic to politicians and their self interest.

[@garrettboes3602]

Thank You for doing a video on this! Great work

[@ProNice]

In Germany, it is also a problem. Here, it's not a single company, but an entire business of Law Professionals, that are interested in keeping taxes complicated. Every politician who tries to break this chokehold eventually drops it. You don't want an entire business industry full of law professionals to go after you.

[@leothelion69]

All my homies hate TurboTax. Shout-out FreeTaxUSA 🇺🇸

[@Buttersausage]

Yup

[@ooogyman]

I use FreeTaxUSA, and although I do pay an extra $16 for them to auto-fill my state tax return, it's a WAY better deal than anything Intuit provides.

[@Beskie]

I use the same!! 🎉

[@CosmoSkerry]

Cash App Taxes is free too.

[@Shadowguy456234]

Won't work if you live abroad unfortunately.

[@user-tk5ir1hg7l]

"you have to pay to figure out how much to pay me for stuff you didn't subscribe to, and if I say later that its too little, youll have to pay fines or go to jail" - gov

[@user-qq4dg2mo5h]

Calling it a tax refund is disingenuous. It’s money you’re getting back that should have never been given to the govt. And interest free on top of all that.

[@robertsonfarm1284]

That’s why I started investing in the stock market because of dividends. What matters, in my opinion, is that if you invest and earn more money in addition to dividends, you will be able to live off of dividends without selling. It implies that you can pass that on to your children, giving them a head start in life. I've invested over $600k in dividend stocks over the years; I continue to buy more today and will continue to do so until the price lowers even further.

[@davidcents961]

It's always inspiring to hear from a veteran investor who has weathered the storm and come out on top. When your portfolio turns from green to red, it might be unsettling, but if you have invested in great companies, you should just keep adding to them and stick with your plan.

[@Yowan-hm9cg]

I wholeheartedly concur, which is why I appreciate giving an investment coach the power of decision-making. Given their specialized expertise and education, as well as the fact that each and every one of their skills is centered on harnessing risk for its asymmetrical potential and controlling it as a buffer against certain unfavorable developments, it is practically impossible for them to underperform. I have made over 1.5 million dollars working with an investment coach for more than two years

[@woodfreewoman6845]

Would you mind telling me how to contact this specific coach using their service? You seem to have the solution, as opposed to the rest of us.

[@Yowan-hm9cg]

@strategisteleanor THAT IS HER USER NAME

[@Yowan-hm9cg]

and she’s active on TE,LE,GR,AM....

[@akgarada]

The issue is not that there is a free version, but is that the free version only does 1040EZ (only standarized deductions) and no state tax returns for free. It is essentially not free for most people who pay taxes.

[@shaunlavalley1131]

It also doesn’t cover the form you get if you had to go on unemployment.

[@oldsocrates]

*_"only does 1040EZ "_* Um, you are totally clue less. FYI, the 1040-EZ was discontinued in 2018 buddy.

[@nixon2tube]

IRS Free file does everything on a 1040. I use it every year. EZ was never supported on it, and really EZ only handicapped people anyway.

[@amyturpen4726]

Free file DOES also include state return, at least for Oregon. Haven't paid a dime since I started filing that way.

[@braceyourselvesfortruth2492]

Sounds like you would potentially have a beef with your state government. Mine, Colorado, allows me to file on their website for free.

[@RandyRhode-yq5hq]

Every bill effecting taxes should be known as "The Attorney and Accountants Relief Act". I heard that at an attorney and accounting continuing education course in 1978.

[@brianfong5711]

affecting

[@jonathansage2147]

You've got part of this spot on. I think the other half of the equation is that the Republican party, not their rank and file voters, want people to hate taxes. Making paying taxes onerous is one way to make people hate paying them. The more people hate taxes, the easier it is to cut them in ways that really don't benefit the broader population.

[@shink9844]

I’m a tax attorney. Filing taxes doesn’t have to cost money. Most people with basic wage and interest income and basic deductions like mortgage interest can do it themselves easily if they spend an hour or so. You can go online and download the forms and instructions for free, which you can mail in. I’ve never paid to file my taxes, but it does take a bit of effort. But It is figuring out what deductions, credits apply and how to fill out the forms properly that are complex. The reason for the complications is bc of how the govt uses the tax code to enact policy and conduct spending. If we moved to flat tax rate with limited deductions and credits, that would simplify things. But Americans have to cease trying to get policy enacted with the tax code. For example, the deduction for home interest expense… for home office expenses, etc. Also deductions for retirement plans, and tax credits for things like EVs, solar, child tax credit… etc. Most Americans don’t want these to go away. Then there is the alternative minimum tax which is like a second tax return that you have to fill out to see if results in more taxes than your normal return. It would be great if this went away also (I don’t know of any other country that has this), but most Americans would not support this as doing away with it would be pitched as letting the rich pay less. A lot of it also stems from the existence of a capital gains tax, which some countries don’t have at all.

[@3p1cand3rs0n]

I cleverly avoid all this hassle by having so little income that I don't even owe taxes. It's a bold strategy and i'm sure it will pay off for me. 🤓

[@Bloom2Grow]

Then how do you survive on so little income????

[@KrisHughes]

Good question, but I'm the same. I survive by spending as little as possible. @@Bloom2Grow

[@mrjgilbert]

@@Bloom2Grow It’s self-deprecating humor. “Good thing I’m so poor I don’t have rich people problems” is something people say as a joke. But OP said it way better and in the context of the video 😊

[@Rust_Rust_Rust]

But now you're broke 😂

[@8ofwands300]

😂😂

[@ComeGetPsalmMore]

As a tax accountant, I can tell you that the forms aren’t the problem. We don’t spend hours on returns because the forms are hard, it’s because the laws are so complex and constantly changing. I spent 4hrs in college, studied for the cpa exam, and have worked in the field for almost 5 years now, and still do 80hrs of learning each year, and I still don’t know everything and have to rely on those who have done this for 10+ years to review my work. The laws constantly changing thanks to 1- groups of interest that lobby (not just Inuit there are thousands of others from other industries) and 2- lawmakers like passing bills to say they did something, especially when the new president is from different party than the last. I work on all types of return , individuals, corporate, partnerships, trusts, non profits and I can tell you they are all complex af.

[@bengarlock7607]

I think the point of the video is to say that the forms would be filled out for you. Right now we are filling out forms to provide the government with information it already has. The only piece that is missing is the final calculation, which the government should be doing. It's like ordering a pizza but the delivery guy asks you how much you owe him, and if you get it wrong you go to jail. It's insane.

[@Anh_Alexander]

​@@bengarlock7607 No, the video starts off seeming to go that way, but the government's free file program does not do that and there is no plan to make it do that. It is basically the government's version of what the free TurboTax option should have been (still requires a significant amount of work on the taxpayer's part).

[@user-zs1fr7im6l]

10% FLAT TAX FOR EVERYONE NO DEDUCTIONS !

[@kirashirou904]

“free” = $100+ every year if you file anything beyond a basic w-2

[@ciaolife]

Most people in the UK just have tax and insurance come out of their salary. Our online system if you need to fill in a tax return is very easy

[@JayYu-lr4ro]

UK is awful, you need to lie on your credit report questions to match whatever outdated info is shown on one of 3 random credit reporting agencies, they fail to recognise your drivers license, and so on!

[@theweirdsideofreddit3079]

@@JayYu-lr4ro What are you on about? We just have our tax and NI contributions taken directly off our payslip and get a check mailed to you at the end of the financial year if you paid too much. It's only a pain in the backside if you run a business.

[@JayYu-lr4ro]

@@theweirdsideofreddit3079 it’s the same pain for savings interest, capital gains, property rental, self employment, immigrant workers and so on

[@leo_warren]

@@JayYu-lr4ro Hardly - Most people won't hit the declaration thresholds for savings, especially if they use ISAs. Even for self employment Self-Assessment is done within half-hour to half a day depending on business size. Immigration status doesn't matter for employees as they should be processed through PAYE. For most people PAYE is fine.

[@JayYu-lr4ro]

@@leo_warren normal savings accounts go up to 8% in the UK, while ISAs are closer to 2%! Online Self-assessment is a big disaster if you fail the highly experimental authentication schemes on gov.uk PAYE can even fail to register for those with right to work!

[@mchervino]

I haven’t used a tax service in years. I file for free straight from the IRS website. It’s pretty simple. The biggest pain is just verifying my identity and filing out the W-2 section. But it’s 100% free and this year it took me about 20 minutes total.

[@radidov5333]

can you teach me how

[@silentstorm5439]

It's only free if you make under X amount, everyone else gets screwed

[@yossimahler4650]

Yeah it's not hard. I do not even understand the point of this video.

[@mchervino]

@@yossimahler4650 it seemed like a contrived issue to whine about. Nothing more.

[@larryjones9773]

@@radidov5333 It's called Free File Fillable Forms.

[@JHa-se7or]

Good evening. I'm a conservative and I support this message.

[@got_glintsp963]

Out of the 141,000,000 the claim states approximately 4.4 million people are eligible for $29-$30. Of course, it’s TOO LATE to provide changes to email or address. WHAT HAPPENS TO THE MONEY THAT COULD NOT BE RETURNED TO THE ELIGIBLE CITIZEN? WHO gets that? Where does it go? What do the lobbyists give political parties?

[@irtwiaos]

The whole point of doing returns is so rich people can go through the loopholes to reduce their taxes from itemized returns. 90% of tax payers just take the standard deduction that the irs.can just send us a bill/return.

[@mortizzle4149]

How many Americans enter all their deductions only to find that standard deduction is better. Taxes could be so simple for majority of Americans since the government already knows our income, dependents, and could just opt for standard deduction by default and send us a bill/refund.

[@jon9103]

​@@momytiknope, people are forced to go through the lengthy tax return process even though most select the standard deduction.

[@violenthunter.]

the standard deduction went way up in 2018 due to the combining of the old standard deduction and the exemption amounts. i believe this is due to expire in 2025. so be sure to always enter those expenses, especially if you know something changed. but yeah, living in texas makes it harder due to the lack of state tax. better than living in maryland, trust me.

[@EmZh20]

The government doesn't know how many dependents you have. Think about children of divorced parents who have a separate agreement about who gets to claim the children each year. However, this would be an easy input for people to make on the government filing system. Also people who are self-employed -- (government doesn't know that). I just want to convey that there is a lot of nuance for tax situations. The people who would benefit from this kind of file system are people who have only W2 income.

[@yvr2002rtw]

@@EmZh20 In some countries, they have what is called a "family registry". You have to register the details of who your family members are with the government and keep a "family book".

[@EmZh20]

@@yvr2002rtwchild dependents can extend beyond your direct descendants. For example for the child tax credit, in some scenarios tax payers can claim their niece, nephews, brother, sister, grandchildren, step-siblings, etc. Family scenarios can get complicated, which complications would doubtfully be successfully be registered by the US federal government. Claiming dependents was far more nuanced when we had individual exemptions- which was temporarily eliminated under TCJA and set to return in 2026. 😝

[@OfficialCrashnet]

"Hey how much do I owe" - US Citizen "Guess" - IRS "27k" - US Citizen "Wrong, enjoy jail" - IRS "So you knew the whole TIME and you didn't tell me?!" - US Citizen "Yep, watch your head as you are getting into the backseat" - IRS

[@knpark2025]

I'm from South Korea, and last year I did my tax returns in a *single automated phone call.* It took less than this video essay's introduction. It will probably take similar time this year as well. I am not bragging because this is nothing to brag about. If you live by your paycheck and pay things with credit/debit cards, government should already have everything they need to know to calculate the accurate amount of taxes you need to pay. At least that's what should happen in every developed country with a functioning administrative system.

[@user-vr5fi8kj4y]

As a CPA I can attest that half of my clients could easily do their taxes themselves. If a functioning portal existed, at any rate. I've even told some of my clients this. This video does nothing to highlight the very real fact that for many people, doing anything tedious at all is simply not worth it. Even if the "user friendly" gov't portal existed, they would still need to be educated on something that would make their eyes glaze over. They would rather pay a modest fee of $100/200 for someone to do it for them. Just like a lawn service, insta-cart, or cleaning service - we all have things we simply DO NOT WANT TO DO.

[@PatG-xd8qn]

The American and Canadian tax system is a huge waste of time and resources. It's way too complex for litterally no reason. Everything could be easily calculated automatically, just as it is in Europe and we accountants could be working on actually useful things instead of wasting our time learning useless tax laws and deductions. The tax system became this complex over time because governments hide their false promises by adding some little extra clauses in the tax system. For example, the last government in my province said it would increase corporate tax rates by 15%, which it did. But it also added a "réduction d'impôt générale" (meaning a general tax reduction... of 15%), so the end result is that the real corporate tax rate is the same as it was before, but to the voters who don't understand anything about taxes, they think he kept his promises. And now this clause will probably remain in the tax code forever for no reason, adding another useless step to the tax fillings.

[@michaelk969]

@@PatG-xd8qn The reason the tax code is too complex is that politicians want to have a large source of funds to pay off lobbyists and benefactors. They are the ones who make it complex. If they wanted to they could introduce a flat tax system or something like it that simplifies the calculations, but in that case they would not have a largesse to distribute to friends and the federal government would be forced to live on a balanced budget. Both are anathema to politicians.

[@PatG-xd8qn]

@@michaelk969 It's actually for the reason I stated in my previous comment.

[@kingduckford]

Exactly. Pure, absolute, total laziness. Avoid any and all work and seek to pay someone to do something you can do for yourself.

[@jonathantan2469]

We have the same situation here in Australia. Taxes can be filed online, it's pretty straightforward for anyone who can competently use a computer. However, many people prefer to pay starting from the hundreds to get a tax accountant/consultant/etc. do it for them. Also, a lot of it has to do with reducing the taxable income by maximising deductions, and clawing back the amount deducted from your income. More so if you run a business or are a sole trader. People here even try to get tax deductions via the fuel tax by claiming back the portion their vehicle was not used on a public road or the amount of biodiesel used.

[@evanbauer]

In addition, a needed simplification of the tax code would remove much of the cost of filing as well as remove many of the opportunities for tax cheats to steal from all of us.

[@LG-pt5kt]

SAY IT LOUDER FOR THE KIDS IN THE BACK

[@user-zu5do6ri6r]

We could end the income tax.

[@anglaismoyen]

​@@user-zu5do6ri6rjust tax land

[@leahbiffin8432]

You poor people, USA. I'm Australian, been doing my taxes by myself for decades. Every year our free govt online portal gets better and easier to use. Still have the option of going to my own registered tax agent if i want - with plenty of competition to keep that market low cost. We get great of both worlds. Wish USA would catch up with best of the world. Good luck!

[@PurpleOkayTurtle]

Because we’re Americans. We don’t do what’s easy. We do what’s right. Involving a private business creates better incentives when dealing with public institutions.

[@pyrho1]

Of course the reason we have to struggle with super complicated taxes every year is because of corporate greed and lobbying. I hate this country sometimes.

[@paws315]

Citizens United made this country the opposite of great. MAGA missed that this whole time 😂

[@Idontwannahandl]

The government creates a system, people come in to work within that system... And somehow you're not blaming the government for it? Strongly propagandized

[@paws315]

@@Idontwannahandl Personally I do blame the govt for allowing lobbying to pervert the people’s interests to such a blatant degree. It’s an awful and completely avoidable status quo

[@e.c.5994]

So . . . the video explains quite clearly a particular problem that may be solved: gatekeeping of the filing systems by private companies. However, the super complicated tax system is still a government, not a corporate, problem. Our tax system is still so incredibly broken in so many ways that this doesn't even begin to address the real issues; creating a portal where you can file your taxes for free is like sticking duct tape on a failing dam and expecting that'll make it all better.

[@nevermind4679]

Well said. The fact that the IRS is perennially underfunded, and always in danger of having its funding cut further, doesn't help. @@e.c.5994

[@alecfotsch3533]

I've been preaching this book for years. Now my employer puts TurboTax and H&R Block adds in the pay portal where I retrieve my W2! Eat the rich, no, eat TurboTax!

[@drxym]

The US tax system is so hilariously broken and inefficient. I live in Ireland where everyone here gets a thing called a PPS number, which is like a social security number. When you get a job, you give your PPS to your employer. The employer deducts the taxes out of your wages and pays them to revenue. Likewise, if I walk into a shop the tax is included in the price, and paid to the state by the retailer. There is also a website if you want to get tax relief for waste disposal, medical treatment or whatever. Everything is tracked against the PPS along with other factors like marital status, disability, benefits etc. and that's it. And so maybe 95% of the population never needs an accountant or accounting software AT ALL. The only people who really do are people running businesses, or the self employed (who effectively employ themselves), or otherwise generating taxable income. This is the SANE way to collect taxes. I really don't understand why the US does things so differently. It's a no brainer to tax at source. At least the US taxes goods and services at source (even if they don't show it in the price), so why not the same for wages? It is completely nuts to require so many people to undergo the stress of filing their own taxes when there is no reason to. The IRS must be 2-3x the size it needs to be in terms of manpower to cope with this nonsense and people filing fraudulent or incorrect returns.

[@roomie4rent]

Intuit Memo Dated Feb 7 2024 RE: To all 1800 employees of Intuit, there's a NYT video on KZbin that is required to be downvoted. You have until COB today to comply. Signed, Management

[@tedjones-ho2zk]

After two temporary income taxes - one of which was deemed unconstitutional - the income tax was intentionally made permanent by the 16th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, which was ratified in 1913

[@Redmanticore]

before income taxation, the old time governments took their taxes from import and export tariffs, which was a form of taxation on all people. it greatly hindered progress of free trade.

[@user-zu5do6ri6r]

Import and export tariffs never ended, and did not decrease.