USMC F-35B - Fired For Ejecting?

[@HonorJackson247]

I served under LTCol Del Pizzo when he was a Harrier pilot. He is one of the best pilots I’ve ever met. If he felt he needed to eject then anyone else would have done the same.

[@CtrlOptDel]

Well, any other *American* pilot would have done the same...

[@nate2838]

@@CtrlOptDel are you referring to the kamikaze pilots?

[@Zayn._gnx]

Yeah we know you served

[@HonorJackson247]

@@Zayn._gnx huh?

[@afrog2666]

@@HonorJackson247 Some salty civvie thinking you`re bragging and they`re being all insecure about it ;)

[@stgeorge36]

I think Gonky is spot on, this sends the message that pilots need to second guess how their career will be impacted before bailing out of an out of control aircraft. Great way to start losing pilots.

[@Triple_J.1]

They don't care. It costs them pennies to pay out surviving family with sub par benefits compared to their $150M jet. And the international embarrassment because this is an international project with other socialist states who have to save face.

[@nate2838]

From both sides at that. Those who hesitate too long and die, and those that don't want to risk having their career tanked for making the best decision the could with the information available at the time.

[@Nelson_Ribeiro_aka_M.z.K.]

Let's be honest, US industrial complex doesn't give a flying fuck for it's pilots, they would rather let 10 pilots get killed then letting a F-35 being destroyed

[@vincentlopez5194]

The pilot IS a very good friend of mine. With that said I do believe he was a scape goat for the Marine Corps. I served with the Col for many years and if he made that decision, it was the only decision left.

[@stevefowler2112]

I'm an AE with the mothership, I can't/won't discuss specifics but i have to say, putting someone with thousands of hours in an 18 but only 10 hours of seat time in a B in the last 6 months and telling him to fly a cross-country flight is like handing a Porsche 911 S driver with lots of track time the keys to a GT2 RS and telling him to go set a Nürburgring lap record...it is tempting fate. Also, the B kept flying for several miles so it was obviously aerodynamically functional.

[@jameshisself7375]

@@stevefowler2112 I'm ashamed for you that you wrote this. Even being air you seem to have no understanding of IMC conditions and losing your instruments. You should know better. Aerodynamic functionality has zero relationship with a flyable aircraft. He was probably 1 or 2 seconds from flying it into a hole.

[@dennisparks3692]

right on

[@richlo8887]

Sure you were! 🤣🤡

[@Kolobochok95]

Gonky is 100% spot on. A life is worth a lot more than a jet or a career. Let alone an experienced pilot like that. A jet is a tool, just like any other weapons system.

[@luke7146]

Yep! Don’t delay the decision to give it back to the tax payer!

[@LTVoyager]

And if the jet had crashed into a hospital and killed 50 people, does that mean their lives are worth nothing? Personally, I think military flights over populated civilian areas should not be allowed to eject.

[@A_barrel]

​@@LTVoyager He couldn't control the airplane.... LOW while attempting to land. Every plane has to land somewhere, what are we going to do move all the airports to the countryside? Oh wait, homes are scattered everywhere there too, might hit a cow too

[@LTVoyager]

@ Except the airplane could control itself just fine. 😂

[@A_barrel]

@@LTVoyager That's pure ignorance and not how any of this works. He suffered tertiary instrument failure, the plane told him he had total failures. Add no visible horizon and the configuration change, he could have been upside down and not known it.

[@rElliot09]

I am a retired Naval Aviator and this mishap became very public. I agree with both of you, I think the mishap became too public, and now, the higher ups wanted to hold someone accountable to relive pressure. In this case, the easy way out was to hold the pilot accountable. He was in the goo, had issues with his instruments/displays, slowing down in IMC, and all sorts of changes to your internals are happening (spatial D). A tough situation to be in, period. My guess is, the General went against the recommendation of the FNAEB, and others in the chain, ending with his final decision.

[@ILruffian]

This. He was fired for embarrassing the 'corps when the jet was "lost." Not for his actions.

[@djinn666]

The messaging was to blame. If the report had concluded it was the plane's fault, then the public wouldn't have put any pressure on the leadership. Well, I suppose in that case they'd blame bad procurement, but that's nothing new.

[@siroyiryuu]

A decision made under obvious political pressure. The general may be under great pressure from his opponent, so he needs a scapegoat. So the unlucky pilot was……

[@siroyiryuu]

Recently, a large number of mid-level commanders in the Navy and Marine Corps have been dismissed, and generals may also be under great pressure.

[@nicholasespinoza9610]

America has a puritan heritage, it’s in the country’s DNA. That being said I would like to hear a contrarian view from an experienced pilot.

[@josephking6515]

Civilian pilot here. My concern is seeing how this guy has been shafted by Command, how many other pilots are now going to hesitate pulling the handle because they are second guessing themselves and want to be triple sure they are going to depart a failing machine and don't want to lose their job? I flew with a motto / saying _If in doubt, there is _*_no_*_ doubt._ Obviously didn't relate to me having a bang seat but it was something I needed to be very aware of when flying _Lawn Darts_ where I was required to wear a pilot's rig in case someone had a premature deployment and took out the horizontal stabiliser as they very quickly got dragged over it.

[@PeypaMikko-1842]

They are sending a very dark message to young military aviators. "In doubt, stay later, even if your life is at risk". Maybe that officer could have done better... but he lived to see another day, and was able to share his experience.

[@skyserf]

He is also able to see his family.

[@abingdonboy]

Exactly my thoughts watching this video. This could very well get people killed- the message they are sending is very insidious to younger aviators

[@B1900pilot]

Very good point, learn and go forward.

[@section8usmc53]

Retired Marine Corps airwing. Helicopters. If you don't have altitude, you're dead. You have no ejections in a helo, and at that altitude, it doesn't matter what you are in, the ground can be there in seconds. Vertigo can set in without you even realizing, and I've been to the funerals because of it. People have no idea how crazy and dangerous military aviation is. I can't imagine the pucker factor trying to auto rotate in a helo in those conditions at that altitude. It's also amazing how many people you can piss off in the squadron chain of command just by downing an aircraft for anything that is going to take more than a few minutes to fix. They are mad when it's down, but they won't hesitate for a second to throw you under the bus if there's a mishap. They will sell you right down the river. So, pilots, aircrew, or ground crew, the command is never going to be cool about anything other than perfect performance, which is fun with half the squadron awaiting parts at the end of the fiscal year because were broke. Toxic leadership for the loss. I do miss being on the boat and the flightline though. Especially hot summer evenings. It's a magical place. I'd sit and watch planes after work.

[@AndrewH2791]

It a a real stain on the USMC that they fired this highly seasoned aviator for doing it by the book.

[@kathyfugere6085]

A woman got a 9 year sentence because her dog bit and injured a guy who was running away from his criminal activity. She followed her instructor's method lesson. That instructor wasn't accused or jailed . Other cops have their K9 do it

[@SeligTiles]

“Perfectly good”? It stopped being, “perfectly good” when the aircraft’s problems started.

[@scottyballgame1]

Thank you for calling out the stupidity in your comments. The CO who grounded him with no flying experience is maddening. I certainly hope leadership in the military changes drastically in the years to come.

[@wrayday7149]

Yeah.... you go tell those taxpayers they are wrong as you explain why they just lost 110 million dollars... sure that will go over so well.

[@scottyballgame1]

@ so machine over man. Got it.

[@kenpumphrey8384]

@@scottyballgame1 It's cheaper to train a new pilot than build another fat Amy.

[@wrayday7149]

@@scottyballgame1 Negative Ghostrider. The plane flying perfectly fine without the pilot for 12 minutes is what damned him. Which meant, whatever emergency he had.... he had time to work out instead of jump out. Most importantly he still had comms and he was wings level for landing.... which really hurts his disorientation claim Tower could have guided him out over the water to figure out his issue or gave him an approach for an arrester cable landing or eject. The direct result of his panic punch out.... and turned a flyable aircraft into a 110million dollar guided missile flying thru other airspaces and over populated areas..... and now he is unemployed. But hey, drone pilots are in demand and you can crash those all you want.

[@maleprincess62]

​@@wrayday7149but how could he have known he had that time? This is what you're not understanding.

[@ThatGeezer]

Where was the 'perfectly good airplane' in this incident? The pilot ejected from one with multiple instrument failures, in circumstances where he was TRAINED to eject.

[@unfurling3129]

Absolutely spot on!

[@pogo1140]

USMC is 100% committed to the F-35 program, he's just a pilot

[@babalonkie]

That might be part of the whole "Something we are not seeing" part... The instrument failure may of been caused by the pilot and completely avoidable by basic knowledge. Not defending the decision, my fine line is exactly what Gonky said "You can rebuild a plane, you cant rebuild a individual/pilot", BUT if the instrument failure was caused by something as simple as "accidently turning something off"... i kind of see a punishment of some kind coming.

[@maleprincess62]

​@@babalonkiethat wasn't mentioned in the AIB report

[@babalonkie]

@@maleprincess62 Lots wont be... maybe not mentioning everything actually benefits the Colonel... we likely will never know.

[@CGC1267]

This is just another example of the problems the US military today. Operations are over publicized with incomplete information to a public that has little understanding of how these things work. The top brass is also woefully inept. Thank you gentlemen for having this aviators back.

[@TCK-9]

He was sacrificed because It just got too much into the news and the top brass(aka politicians) got too embarrassed and needed a scapegoat to appease the public and D.C.

[@Dcscockpit]

That sends the message “if you eject you’re going to be punished” so now we are going to have aviators flying to their grave for fear of losing wings or being demoted, and that sucks.

[@RayMears82-s7g]

The decision at the time to eject seems right: instrument conditions, jet’s instruments experience significant issues, low alittude. Gonky is bang on: they can make another jet. The challenge with the public narrative / perception is that the aircraft flew on for several minutes and the ever growing complexity of modern jets making losses more expensive. The judgement in the report feels like an example of the insidious tendency towards applying full 20:20 hindsight after the event - I’m reminded of the plot of the fictionalised film Sully.

[@SubVet84]

"Perception is 90% of reality!" That's the most important lesson I learned in the military!!! It definitely doesn't make it right, but optics are nearly everything. If you look busy, you are; if you look like you know what you are doing, you do...etc...

[@bernieeod57]

In his book "On Yankee Station" John B Nickols wrote "If you can't afford to lose it, you cannot afford to use it!" As an F-8 Crusader pilot, he decried the over reliance on technology. The over sophistication and complexity of fighters. He stressed K.I.S.S. Keep it simple stupid. When a combat plane is so valuable the pilot has a duty to bring it back intact or don't come back alive, It's too complex, too expensive, and unfit for combat

[@MrCashewkitty]

He is what we call in the gun world, a fudd. The bleeding edge of tactics and technology is right where the US should be

[@bernieeod57]

@ Not so! The overpriced gold plated warplane is just as useless as the .22 caliber squirt gun you believe is some kind of wonder weapon.

[@bernieeod57]

@ Welfare wimps relying on wonder weapons which turn out not to be so wonderful after all us not where we should be! Time for the taxpayer to close the checkbook

[@bernieeod57]

@ Only Tactard wannabes use the word "Fudd". Things have gotten so crazy that those who do resolve the issue with a single shot are called bad shootings due to failure to mag dump

[@TheOrthodoxMoor]

The guy obviously new how to fly if he was a Harrier pilot since 93...He went from flying non fly by wire jets that still had some steam gauges, to flying a 5th Gen fly by wire jet that's all digital etc...With all those electronic instrument failures with NO manual backup wtf was he supposed to do??? EJECT EJECT EJECT!!!

[@AirRyanTX]

Had the pleasure of meeting and talking with a guy last Friday at a car show meet up at a popular BBQ restaurant. Had a great discussion with him and piece by piece, I learn he was in Vietnam. I'm a Marine Veteran and we were at first talking about an Iwo Jima Veteran he recently drove in the Veterans Day parade downtown in his beautiful red 64 Corvette convertible that he also drove out to lunch that day. Then I hear him mention he was a pilot. I'm a big aviation nerd so I pry a little further and ask him what he flew. He said F-4's. Turns out he was an AFA graduate, too. We talked about F-4's and how my friend's Dad used to fly them out of Bergstrom here in Austin and how cool it was to have grown up in the area back in the 80's and 90's when we had F-4's flying overhead all of the time and you would hear them come in from the MOA, going fast and throttling back, and it would rattle the ground sometimes. We would literally run outside and look up into the sky and how cool they were. He proceeded to tell me how the early F-4B's didn't even have a bomb sight that he could use to aim with, that you could maybe use a grease pencil and make a sight on the windscreen, but that was about it. Those early F-4's in Vietnam didn't even have a RWR and even then, with an IR AAM they often didn't know you were being fired at until it hit you unless you saw the MiGs, which were doing their best not to engage an F4. They would try and come up from behind, pop off a shot, and do a 180 and high tail it away. And his AAM's, how they had a nice powerful radar but the ROEs' rendered their Sparrow's virtually useless, and how the early AIM-9's had such a high rate of failure. I think he said you couldn't launch an AAM on those early F-4's back then at least, if you had more than 2g's on the aircraft. Something like that. GLWT! It's amazing what these guys endured with back then, over there (SE Asia) in harms way! I noticed that on both of his hands, he had what looked like burn scars and I'm not sure he had a single full finger on either hand. Turns out, he incurred those wounds on a combat sortie, where on his takeoff roll his F-4 took some ground fire or what not and he lost his engines. He was telling me how his ejection seat was theoretically capable of ejecting but in a split decision, he decided to take his chances with the aircraft. As his aircraft over ran the runway it hit the ILS antennas on the other end, and his aircraft took a couple of hits to the fuselage and caught fire as you might imagine with all that gas and ordinance under his wings. He couldn't get the canopy to get out of the way because he was telling me the multiple redundancies of how the canopy was able to be removed in an emergency. First was electric but when the engines lost power he lost electric power, so that wasn't going to work. Secondary was hydraulic I believe, but that didn't work because his hydraulic lines lines were severed when his aircraft ran over all those ILS antennas. He said there was a manual lever he could pull on in the cockpit, but with the damage to the fuselage, the J hooks were damaged and he couldn't get the lever to go all the way back. So then, while he's literally being engulfed in flames, which is where he suffered his wounds to his hands, he told me how he got up on the ejection seat and stood up with his back on the canopy, and was able to pry it off just enough to where he could get out. Probably seconds before he would have been gone. And then we have this story here where some Monday Morning armchair quarterback is going to look back in retrospect and say you ejected too early. Yeah, GFY, General. I'm with you all, Fat Amy isn't worth your life and let's be honest, LM is more than happy to build the taxpayer another one.

[@SolomonSamson747]

yeah the USAF F-4Cs were the first to get RWR (it was called RHAW at the time) but it was a retrofit. I may be wrong but I believe the F-4D was the first model to come out of St. Louis with factory RHAW, and for the Navy the F-4J.

[@fatcole1152]

It's Gus Grissom all over again

[@pjp_renaissance]

I think it's important to clarify that just because the F-35 flew after the ejection doesn't mean it was flyable.

[@Wills7MGTE]

Mover and Gonky I agree 100% with the assertion the public and many service members outside of aviation don’t understand all the nuances of the profession. I’m not an aviator but as a LEO I am used to being judged by those who have zero to negative understanding of the job or life or death quick decision making made with little to no information. People who are concerned with cost of a jet should take a moment to realize that A human life is of value above that of any property and B pilots are trained and require experience to be effective all of which costs more money than any aircraft.

[@danmorrissette4814]

Respect Gonky !! Respect Mover !!

[@mikeck4609]

I'm not privy to the investigation nor do i know how the review board operates; but i have been a Law Enforcement Officer for 24 years and have experience with life and death decisions made in an instant. The board reviewing should not be deciding whether he SHOULD have ejected or not...but whether the decision to eject was reasonable based on the circumstances. In other words, it shouldn't matter whether YOU think he needed to eject. What should matter was whether the PILOT thought- at that moment- it was necessary to eject and whether that belief was reasonable. Now, I don't know if that is - in fact- the standard. It may very well have been the finding. But we always have to be careful about looking at life and death decisions made in an instant and - in a relaxed environment free from any stress (and knowing all of the facts) - saying "he should have done this" or "this is what i would have done."

[@silverwings1843]

Have a friend that was bringing a Jet (Late PM) into Merritt Field MCAS early 90s??. Coming in from the West. Started getting bad CSs in decent. Could not manage an adequate decent profile. He knew he could not make the field. He was just praying he could get it out off the coast to EJ. Almost made it but then the dreaded Fire Alarm came. He pulled the handles right at the coast line knowing the Jet would land in the ocean. I think he was about 1500 or so. He got a good seat release and chute. He had no idea where he was coming down. He could see lights to one side and darkness the other. He landed in a marsh. After fighting to crawl out carrying his chute he came to a street with a hotel on the other side. He walked in covered in mud, carrying his chute, full GS and Helmet. Walked Up To The Desk And Asked To Use The Phone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Merritt of course was following the situation. Drove out. Picked him up. Went to a Debrief, washed up, gave him some clothes and a BOQ room... Some guys came in a took him to get a well deserved few drinks...

[@edwardabdelnour1982]

As an LEO I am all to familiar with seeing week minded leaders swayed by the un informed general public. Keep up the good work in analyzing aeronautics in todays ever changing world.

[@seancoate5695]

If you're idea of "safe" is flying within 200' of a civilian aircraft, you need some reeducation. I agree, not a permanent grounding, but discipline is needed.

[@artnull13]

They think flying within 10’ of another fighter aircraft like when the sukoi buzzed an f-16 is safe

[@Warhorse500]

"He crashed a perfectly good airplane..." Yeah, but it sounds like it was NOT a perfectly good airplane. I don't know if F-35s have backup steam gauges or if they're totally dependent on the glass cockpit. If there were backup gauges that the pilot could have relied on, then I might buy it. It would've been exceptionally dicey, but the pilot could've nursed it home. But my understanding is that the F-35 is a 100% glass cockpit. That being the case, if that whole avionics package went wonky at altitude in IMC, then the aircraft eliminated all his other choices. I dunno. I'd be interested to hear the feedback from Mover and Gonky on this point.

[@Jeffagarcia66]

I remember the cornfield bomber from 1970. A F106 ejection where the pilot punched out then the plane was able to recover without the weight balance of the pilot I guess. The plane flew on till it ran out of gas then landed by itself was repaired and flew for years after. Stuff does happen. I think the story is on You Tube. I do not recall what became of the pilot.

[@jb6027]

That F-106 is now in the US Air Force Museum.

[@emperorbless120]

There was a similar, but tragic incident in the 80s(?) in Europe. A MiG-23 pilot list control over his plane shortly after take-off in Poland, and the plane stabilized itself. It continued flying over both Germanies and into Belgium where it crashed into a house and killed someone. Obviously no fault of the pilot, but a serious failure to communicate between East and West.

[@thedeathwobblechannel6539]

I read that it was still running at idle in the cornfield I found it that way

[@eddies987]

Nicely done gents. Mover you were spot on with the USMC Hornets in AUS, and it was just something that happened. A discussion should be made with all pilots involved, but keep ‘em flying. Aviation experience comes from situations like that. The F-35B guy, wow… losing his wings is awful decision making by the USMC. None of those guys USMC will ever make those actions again, and will be better for it. The exec jet guy, well he might just be a douche and he won’t change. Or maybe, he looks back and thinks “maybe I should have not been a douche!” 🇺🇸🍻🥃🇺🇸

[@johnhill7429]

Okay; I am going back in time. In the 1970's the NATOPS, section 3, emergency procedures, for example, out of control below 10,000 feet eject. The statement was written Out of Control below 10,000 feet EJECT. The bold lettering was in BOLD. This was pretty much across all flight manuals. As the 70's progressed things started to change. (I was with A-6 Intruders at this time) I came across an F-14A Tomcat NATOPS and in its' section 3 the BOLD lettering was gone and replaced with an asterisk (*) denoting BOLD (I refer to Ward Carol in several of his videos refers to the BOLD required operation procedures that are asterisk annotated.). I believe this was a mistake as it seemed to de-emphasis the required operation. (Now I am working with the F-16, 1980's time-frame.) The USAF experienced pilots in the F-16 ignoring the 1F-16A-1 section 3 ejection mandate and recovering aircraft from the out of control below 10,000 feet ejection mandate, praised these aviators and changed the flight manual. So I have seen a change in attitude of the Safety Organizations (Navy and Air Force, not familiar with Army), to go away from hard a fast rules to allow the air crews to have more discretion when facing an unusual emergency situation. I believe this cultural shift has led to the discussion that you are having today. In my lowly opinion, until the Safety department stands up, takes responsibility for how the flight manuals are written and BOLD face (asterisk) procedures are written and ENFORCED more to these type situations will exist.

[@trexx32]

Just read Bob Hoovers forever flying

[@philhatfield2282]

Yeah, it's a bogus call. Considering all that I've heard about this, they sold that pilot down the river. Supposedly he was hesitant to accept the command position because of the ejection, worrying that it would come back and bite his ass. He was "assured" that there would be no negative repercussions, and supposedly some higher ups told him he was okay to accept the command. Fast forward to the fact that he was in command in his new position for MONTHS before the decision came down to relieve him of the post. That's bogus horseshit from on high. And the keyboard warriors that demand the wings of a pilot for ejecting need to crawl back under the rock they came out from. They wouldn't know reality if it bit them in the ass. Some likely have never held a meaningful job in their life, so they have no idea that mistakes and accidents happen in all kinds of jobs, and it should never be a career-ending mistake, especially if no life was lost and the procedure followed was what was suggested in the training for the equipment.

[@kdavidsmith1]

It is terrible that the COL was fired over this, but at least he's still above ground.

[@Apexsilverevo]

It’s all proof that those that don’t know, should STFU and not speak on things they don’t understand. My total and complete respect goes out to you all who are truly in the know.

[@major__kong]

Talk about transitioning back and forth between displays, I learned a very valuable lesson in the early days after getting my instrument ticket. I was flying an non-precision approach in hard IMC, and cloud bases were exactly at MDA. I was popping in and out of the clouds and had to transition from instruments to visual back to instruments many times. I had never experienced this in training so didn't know what to do from a practical vs rules perspective. I elected to nudge lower at the next hole to stay visual as a safer option than staying at MDA and getting spatial D. Yes, I could have gone missed, but I would have experienced the same issue on the next approach. Worst case was fly 20 minutes to my alternate with an ILS, so I never boxed myself into a corner. I can perfectly understand why he ejected out of that F-35.

[@gregorymaupin6388]

I’ve witnessed 3 ejections on and near the carrier one on the bow, one on the waist catapults and an F-14 during a fly by. Everyone was relieved that all those aviators were safe. The bow catapult ejection was a Lt. Whalen who made Admiral, these men and women who fly are to be valued as we put millions into their training. It sounds like this general had his head up and locked. On a last note everyone of these who ejected were up and flying in less than a week.

[@jeff393C]

I'm more interested in how a defective/non-airworthy jet was on the flight line and who put the aircraft AND pilot at risk; I'd like to see the maintenance history.

[@TCK-9]

That's why he became the sacrificial lamb, to try and bury this aspect of things. With all the recent rumblings about issues with the jet, it became a news thing and they got really embarrassed.

[@georgecooksey8216]

Excellent segment. Thanks

[@nate2838]

"The pitch forks will come out from a place of anger, emotion, and ignorance." And that is why what you do is appreciated by your viewers. Im just a civilian, not even a pilot. So when it comes to news related to flying, I turn you and similar channels to get the context that I lack. What you guys are describing, sounds like it was an entirely reasonable decision to eject. It sounds to me like the beurocracy is protecting the public opinion of the F-35, rather than explaining that things can go wrong. Alex Hollings has what appears to my uneducated perspective to be a great video about the F-35 program, how successful the actual program is, and how its presented in the media, providing a lot of context most news outlets get wrong for the sake of sensationalism. Its sandboxx news what the media gets wrong about the F=35.

[@OrionsMako]

It truly just seems like the entire system is geared, more and more, to fck over the ones actually doing all the work. Exhausting actually.

[@philfortner1805]

This will definitely help recruiting!

[@ilookatnews9745]

Pilot was sacrificed to save the F35 image

[@kalle5548]

As a taxpayer, I'd gladly be contributing to buying a new aircraft if that means saving a persons life, also that person has significant value to my country. Also, considering the amount of money we spend on saving one or just a few people with coastguard, ambulance helicopters, advanced medical treatments and so on, a $70 million jet seems like a fair price. Edit: And if we will demand our pilots to stay with the aircraft into the groud, why waste money on ejection seats?

[@view23015]

Anger , emotion and ignorance…. Well said . People commenting on things that they have zero experience, training or knowledge on is an epidemic.

[@wrayday7149]

Those people paid for the plane........ you might want to remember that.

[@laurab.9318]

​@@wrayday7149Sure, but anger over the loss of a few individually contributed pennies is a weak excuse for spouting uninformed crap.

[@wrayday7149]

@@laurab.9318Ah yes... the classic "Let them eat cake" response..... how did that work out for the person who said it? What exactly would you consider "uninformed crap"? Under the military rules, when you sign for control of something, you are absolutely responsible for it. Go find me a Enlisted person ever in this situation and see if they didn't have to pay back the lost equipment..... might change your view.

[@laurab.9318]

@@wrayday7149 What @view23015 said was correct, and my response supported their point, nothing more. We live in the information age; someone being upset about something (even justifiably for whatever reasons) isn't a good excuse for not researching a topic before commenting, especially if they want their comment taken seriously. That applies to this specific situation or any other situation. I'm not debating any new points or tangents because I'm simply not interested enough. Sorry.

[@FP194]

@@wrayday7149 How many hours do you have in the F-35 ?

[@rikertvonfulton16]

It's far easier to blame one pilot than sully the reputation of the F35.There are billions of dollars at stake in sales and reputation.

[@johnnyguitar6639]

Yeah. That one crossed my mind to. I mean, they're counting on continuing to sell these to a whole bunch of countries, including Canada and Finland. Now if these start falling out of the sky.They might go somewhere else. That being said, though, we've done that kind of thing knowingly before twice. Selling friendly countries, planes that fall out of the sky.So to speak. But I suspect that IF that is the case here, we'll never know.

[@FP194]

Show me the perfect machine that never has a problem in its entire existence

[@johnnyguitar6639]

@@FP194 I doubt it exist.But you seem to be missing the point. Which was the f35 is still new and several countries are waiting tor their batch. If they cancel or delay a lot of people will lose their job. Not to mention we sold it as something that can't take on everything. If the investors start getting cold feet.Someone will have to be held accountable. BUT.All this is speculation. WE don't know for sure that the Pilot was a scapegoat. It can seem that way,but we don't know for sure,

[@45CaliberCure]

The first thing that came to my mind after hearing Gonky's initial reaction was the relationship to police training. They may not cost millions of dollars to train, but public opinion has caused many to hesitate in dire situations and lose their lives, as is represented by actual numbers. I'm glad the guy is still alive. Everyone else outside of his family and friends can pound sand. Thoughtful debate is fine and welcome, but the influence of non-germane input on something of this nature, affecting our national defense, is disappointing.

[@PeterWolfe2012]

One afternoon when I was in 4th(?) grade (1977?) north of NAS Memphis (Millington), I had a ringside seat as a Navy(?) pilot rode a TA-4 just ALMOST too long to eject into a cotton field less than 1/8 mile from inhabited houses across a dvided highway 4-lane highway from where we sat on a school bus. He landed right outside of the fireball, got up, recovered his chute like the pro that he was and begin to direct firefighting efforts. VERY cool day, for me. Him? Probably not so much.

[@Jamez3l]

I am an extreme aviation geek. I hate it when I hear about any accident/mishap in any plane anywhere. I withhold judgment of any kind until the finish report comes out and guys like you 2 explain things in detail and in a way that the non pilot could understand. You and your guests ROCK!!! As for the USMC, in this particular situation they are worried more about the $$ than the people flying them. Not saying that I'm every situation but this one stinks SUCKS on all levels.

[@1jbunceiii]

I heard a great quote....the motto of the Marines is "always faithful"...that's faithful to the corps, but the corps doesn't have to be faithful to you. Once again, one mistake and they throw you under the bus

[@rtclark4068]

6:45 I don't think any pilot in such an emergency situation would notice the school at all.

[@Charlee1224]

a 30 year USMC pilot is relieved of duty 12 months after the incident. Not only sets a very dangerous precedent, but when slight hesitation is the difference between life & death, this sends a 'not so great' message to other pilots. The USMC has now but a monetary value on human life !!

[@willthacker5182]

Aside from a deliberate ejection where the pilot is clearly malicious in his/her intent, no pilot should be fired for ejecting. No person is immune to errors, even what in hindsight may seem like egregious errors. A military pilot doesn't want to eject when ejection isn't necessary. Unless the pilot has a history of bad piloting, or tendencies that led to a unnecessary ejection, they shouldn't be fired. Like some of the comments say, it sets a bad precedent that could result in loss of life. Either theres more to this incident, or hes a scapegoat.

[@BandytaCzasu]

"You FIRED! Also you owe us USD 100 million."

[@jameshisself7375]

The guy who fired him isn't even air so not surprising to have ZERO understanding of instrument issues in IMC. 100% politics and crews are going to die because of it. CMC is an idiot.

[@keagenhillier3370]

Love the vids and to learn more about

[@llamarama111]

Not an aviator but surely ejection seats are for pilot error as well as mechanical failure. Its to save a pilots life, and not to save the jet.

[@Why_ask_]

Historically, it was recognized that the value of a skilled pilot was worth more than the plane. This doctrine was firmly established early in WW2 and has been our doctrine since. Today, the planes are costing so much, the generals seem to be shifting toward it being the duty of a pilot to go down with the plane. Military aviation is in trouble, and it will not be the drones that end it, it will be the bean counters.

[@RBcymru]

The pilot did what he is trained to do. If he was an experienced harrier pilot the F35B is much easier to fly. The F35 has had loads of issues and perhaps been rushed into service too early. The UK had a TV documentary program showing RAF pilots training in the USA on the F35 and one aircraft refused to boot up and start. The aircraft had to be switched off and back on again like a laptop but takes a lot longer to reboot which isn't possible while in flight. It might have been Fighter Pilot the Real Top Gun on the BBC. Accidents happen as flying is dangerous. US F14 pilot shot down his own plane with a Sparrow missile. There were numerous friendly fire incidents in Afghanistan. A Eurofighter Typhoon pilot nearly ejected when they tested the cannon for the first time because the aircraft computers couldn't handle the recoil.

[@kd5you1]

There is a big difference between assessing something in the moment and assessing something in hindsight.

[@Ryan-mq2mi]

I agree with Gonky on the look, and I think it was not deserved. Just one note though, one of you said "it came back as pilot error", so he would have to relieve him, right? Scrutiny should go to investigators?

[@yutakago1736]

The F-35B is too expensive to lose. They should keep F-35B far far away from the front line.

[@keithlillis7962]

I have no expertise in any aircraft technology, past or present, but in the case of the F35 incident, in my opinion, it is not unreasonable to believe that the more complicated a system is, the more chance an unanticipated issue will manifest at some point.

[@nick_pappagiorgio]

John McCain lost like 5 aircraft under his command, but his dad was also an Admiral.

[@km5384]

Does the military train to revert to the steam gauges when the digital displays fail?

[@txkflier]

If there isn't another issue somewhere, he got screwed over. The cost of planes has gotten ridiculous, but the pilot is still more valuable than the plane. No one in their right mind would have stayed in that plane.

[@MichaelMulvey-hp3he]

The public is blind by ignorance... life should be valued over material things.

[@peartree8338]

During a huge festival in central Stockholm a Gripen test pilot tried to force the plane to obey him leading up to the loss of control and a subsequent ejection (that was the second time the moron had crashed a gripen and both times due to his failure to adapt to the modern aircraft). "On 8 August 1993, production aircraft 39102 was destroyed in an accident at an aerial display for the Stockholm Water Festival. Test pilot Lars Rådeström lost control of the aircraft during a roll at low altitude when the aircraft stalled, forcing him to eject. Saab later found the problem was high amplification of the pilot's quick and significant stick command inputs. The ensuing investigation and flaw correction further delayed test flying by several months, resuming in December 1993." By a sheer miracle hundreds if not thousands ended up not losing their lives that day after Rådeström ejected over central Stockholm. I'm not saying it's similar situations but if pilots want to fly over people's heads then there must also be consequences for their actions regardless of how quick you have to make them. You want to pull a trolley problem on this one? "A pilot is worth more because...." You pull the handle, you live with the consequences

[@edc1569]

Do they not have analog fall backs on these jets?

[@MayhemCanuck]

110 Million for a jet is not a big loss looking at the big picture in my opinion, looks like the Marine corp had a 53 Billion dollar budget last year. its not like its happening on a regular basis, his training and conditions where telling him to eject. I don't think any aviator would fault him for that, the bean counters that have no real world fighter experience will never understand.

[@wisenber]

It encourages the pilot to go down with the plane. That's the opposite of what he was trained to do.

[@xisotopex]

is the tertiary getting data from somewhere more reliable? is it analog in some way where you could use that and be sure of what you were seeing or if with more time be able use it to decide if your primary or secondary was reliable?

[@thedeathwobblechannel6539]

There is a KZbin video I saw years ago about this very subject of pilots waiting too long to eject after a study of it. The people in the plane are most important just like our tank crews are very well trained and very valuable. We could always get more machines we can't necessarily get more well-trained well-seasoned people play don't grow on trees.

[@old_dan]

Another example of a good service member thrown under the bus in order to allow some commander to say they did something about it. If I was this pilot, I would retire from the service. He already gave them over 25 yrs.

[@rg-pq1kb]

The implication is that he was a coward and ejected because he panicked? that's utterly humiliating

[@AshorneinAotearoa]

Absolutely agree, w telling people they are stupid. Education is the key. Have people explain why they make the decisions they do. Transparency! I never assume I know more than the experts, but if I am wrong, tell me exactly how I'm wrong. But, as to this scenario. If the firing was a possible outcome, shouldn't he have been suspended or put on leave until investigation concluded. This just seems wrong on a few levels. Unless of course, there is more to it!

[@oxxnarrdflame8865]

Nothing calms the public like a head on a pike.

[@steve_j_grundon]

I think your *(Mover)* comments from time-mark 12:51 (specifically 13:23) and concluding at 14:08 best sum-up this F-35 incident, i.e., in hindsight, the plane _may_ have been flyable, but at the time of ejection there was LOTS of evidence that suggested the plane was NOT flyable. That the plane continued to fly does not *guarantee* that it was also sufficiently responsive to pilot inputs to safely land.

[@19KiloM1A1]

The CMC needs to be removed once the new administration come in. He is just as bad as the prior CMC. A star chaser.

[@jimsteinway695]

Marine Colonels don’t grow on trees. Marines have a lot invested in Senior officers. They should rethink their decision. Just because the jets are expensive doesn’t make it harder to eject in unsafe conditions

[@DodgerBlue189]

I retired from a job that is always in the spotlight and scrutinized on a constant basis. Towards the end of my career, the numbers of applications dropped significantly and there were more applicants of lower quality. I think good quality people look at the bad press and are more reluctant to apply for the job I had. One good thing about the job I had is if you can articulate why, you did something, you might get written up, yelled at or investigated, but you didn't have to worry about losing your job unless it was a real bad fuckup. Press like this from the military is harmful in that it can send the wrong message to people who were thinking of applying. It tells someone that a good faith decision could end your career just like that. I understand it's a loss of a multi-million plane, but the loss was based on a sound decision at the time.

[@CDBZ88]

I've talked to several F-35 pilots, and they all hate it.

[@seancoate5695]

Purely political. Commanders are being relieved DAILY in the last year. And we have an administration that has spent the last 4 years making a show of political prosecutions...

[@jmacd8817]

And now we're facing an admin that has openly stated they will start courts martial for a ton of officers.

[@Bad_Wolf_Media]

I have a legitimate question here: Does the relieved pilot have any recourse in this case? If you're wrongfully terminated in the civilian world, you can go to court and fight it. But this wasn't the review board deciding, it was one guy dropping the hammer. Would a military court have the authority to review this, or is it a final word? I'm former Army, BTW, so I DO understand how the military operates, but this is so far above and beyond anything I ever dealt with, so it's a sincere question on my part, not looking for any "gotcha" kind of thing.

[@RedTail1-1]

Only thing I can think of is trial by court-martial type of thing. Risk his entire career to defend himself and his position in the military.

[@markbrzezinski8889]

I am a pilot. No-one would eject from an aircraft that had a chance of making it to the ground in one piece. Who the hell wants to go with the option (eject) in which you have no control and is dangerous. It would have been the last resort. Even if I thought I was going to be fired because I did that then I smugly would be happy I survived and went home. So be it.

[@jimallen8186]

This pilot also would have known about the Eglin, Hill, and SCS crashes, all of which involved approach and landing with malfunctioning systems popping up.

[@XJapa1n09]

Gotta agree that this sets a horrible precedent. The last thing anyone needs is pilots worrying about their career when they’re trying to decide on ejecting.

[@ccartee1]

I apologize, I’m a casual follower of your channel. I was looking for the video you mentioned about the F-35/Netjet issue. Could you please provide a link to the video? Thanks!

[@MTB_FANATIC99]

It wasn't a f 35 with a net jet thing It was two F18 hornets out of Austin Texas type that in It happened with a Cessna they wanted it in unrestricted airspeed and almost ran into the Cessna something

[@paulseidenzahl1032]

First time seeing this video. First off, I am not a polit. I watch a lot of the videos about different plane mishaps. To me, I find very difficult to put my absolute trust in all the different electronics in these aircraft. With all the training you guys go through human instincts has got to play a part in any decision making. If at 1900 feet he thought he had lost control of his aircraft, then he made the right decision to eject. Should he lose his wings, Absolutely not! Just my thoughts.

[@scottlink183]

Fired? The Navy spends millions and millions on a fighter pilot then fires him for ejecting from a troubled aircraft is questionable.

[@ArsenicApplejuice]

Marine corps upholding naval tradition of going down with your ship/plane

[@pattygman4675]

Handing a folded flag to the family of a deceased. Would be the hardest thing to do. I couldn’t even look them in the eye if I had to do it. The kind of thing that would stay with you for life.

[@rynopot]

FINALLYYYY!! "We have to tell people that they arecstupid." And ban the stupid ones from social media pleeeease!

[@sneaky_ru]

There's no such thing as a "perfectly good airplane"

[@lucdelhaize4029]

It isn’t the flying that took out his command, it was his initial decision to fly in the first instance.

[@dusttodust]

Distracting attention away from an expensive aircraft that doesn’t handle lightening well? Nobody seems to focus on the cascade of major avionic failures.

[@Musix4me-Clarinet]

*I am very curious* if they could create a system in which, immediately after a pilot ejects, the AI attempts to do everything possible to recover the jet and safely RTB. Of course, the pilot would have been trying to do everything he could think of before ejecting, understood. Even if immediately after ejecting, the AI decides it cannot stop the plane from crashing but can make _some_ adjustments to avoid known population centers (i.e., crash in the trees rather than across a highway, mall, or suburb). _Such a system might save lives if not property._

[@johnroberts9922]

Well, they could, but the USAF never imagined that a pilot would eject from a usable 5th gen aircraft.

[@carlrichards4177]

Pilot had to take the blame , Lockheed doesn't want any bad PR for a flawed F-35 .

[@anonomofosho]

Gonky is on point here

[@P-J-W-777]

It all boils down to the fact they have to sell the F35 and therefore need to keep it active. So the blame will be placed on the pilot and the faults with the aircraft will be swept under the rug and taken care of behind closed doors. As I’ve been saying from the beginning. Too many people/countries have their hands and opinions on this aircraft.

[@rostamr4096]

Good point Gonky