Who Won: Paul, Tyson or Netflix?

[@mezzer34]

I think Richard overestimates how many people understand this wasn''t a "real" fight

[@ladyflimflam]

People do still think that wrestling is real and don’t realize it’s a soap opera.

[@michaeldallaway1988]

@@ladyflimflam other than children, I think this is exaggerated by people who like to think wrestling fans are stupid.

[@thescowlingschnauzer]

Thought you meant between him and Marina

[@emmad-ul4tn]

Just because it wasn't sad for Tyson doesn't mean it can't be for others

[@rhonahurcombe7878]

I’m genuinely intrigued and depressed by the fact that no one cares that Tyson is an unrepentant convicted rapist. When did that stop mattering? I know it doesn’t matter when it comes to who’s president and who’s in his cabinet. But how does commentary on entertainment just let this slide? Baffling.

[@rmccaw7]

I think he's repentant

[@kimaboe]

Unrepentant? Tyson has been pretty open about his regrets. There are many.

[@JuanPatricioIzquierdo]

I do agree with you - same thing happened when Kobe Bryant died, but I think the fact Tyson did his time in prison, people are willing to say, "ok, he went to jail and he did his time, let's move on."

[@csurname]

worth noting that Paul is one too, not convicted but he did it

[@rmccaw7]

@csurname you can't just say somebody "did it" if they haven't been convicted of it.

[@tiredhippo82]

Richard really is to generous to a lot of KZbinr sleaze

[@neilold7291]

Not half as generous as he is to half the stuff he claims to dislike

[@Rojo84]

As an employee of [a supermarket] I think Marina’s comments on staff morale were very perceptive. My organisation has had at least two Xmas adverts over the last decade which have been very misjudged in terms of how they play to staff, which has dented morale or at least been a talking point in the workplace.

[@megaskyburst]

The thing about legacy: Tyson still has his legacy as the most frightening heavyweight of the late 80s, early 90s. A loss to Jake Paul doesn’t tarnish that legacy, in the same way nor did his loss to Danny Williams in the mid 2000s.

[@Tiz147]

This was the boxing equivalent to giving Qatar the association football world cup.

[@eyeyayayay]

I'd say the opposite. Qatar getting the World Cup had real world consequences: lots of construction workers dying, North Korea being able to skirt sanctions, a brutal regime gaining a speck of international legitimacy. This boxing thing was just a bit of fun, where the only people that lost anything were the suckers subscribing to Netflix. It was more like watching Celebrity Jeopardy: everyone knows it's not the real thing, just enjoy it for what it is.

[@dibdab101]

my my, what a depressing world we live in.

[@russellfrancis6294]

I couldn't agree more.

[@Jassa_9393]

As SNL said Tyson and Paul joined together and defeated everybody watching.

[@ramruma6330]

Marina & Richard skate over the technical balls-up which was the most serious problem with the Tyson-Paul kerfuffle. The same underlying causes around the Netflix technical architecture will also be problematic with the Netflix news service that Richard predicts. Basically, Netflix stores normal programmes and films in different countries around the world, ready for local delivery. They cannot do that for live events like sport and news.

[@redmed10]

The problem with social media is that most people argue with people who are on the other extreme to each other and who have no hope of agreeing because they have no common interests. The idea that you can change somebody else's mind in 100 characters or less is delusional. I spent a lot of time trying to come up with a killer debunking of flat earth theorists in 5 sentences. I stopped when i asked myself why am i so obsessed with countering such a minority held view. And the way algorithms work my comment just serves to drive them up higher in the rankings. Its a self defeating exercise.

[@andybrice2711]

Though I do think a large part of the problem is that the format, rating system, and recommendation algorithms of many platforms actively incentivise the worst aspects of human nature.

[@PianoKwanMan]

For a lot of people, it's one of their hobbies. Online arguing, like porn & Masturbation, is not something people would admit as a hobby. That's a problem.

[@NickDusting]

I stopped using Twitter years ago predominantly because it bored me - meaningless drab comments with questionable authenticity. Unfortunately i believe Twitter and other similar platforms continue to be popular... for exactly the same reasons.

[@solipsismworld]

I understand Richard's "no harm, no foul" view on the fight, but then he goes on to say that if the match had been put on pay-per-view, lots of people would be demanding their money back. How do you reconcile that? Different price points?

[@travelwell6049]

I remember when the plane landed on the Hudson and someone in a nearby building took a phone photo and put it up on Twitter. This was a pivotal moment where the press learned something for the first time on social media in such real time, rather than the rest of the world finding out the news from the press.

[@jennysobey9890]

Hey Richard and Marina, google has been kind enough to send me my top picks for podcasts watched this year (thanks but didn't ask for that?!?) And I discover that you are my top watched podcast!! Brilliant news!! Love your humour and interactions, hope it all continues into a wonderful 2025!!

[@stevecochrane5376]

Oh my God! Marina owns my heart. I love it when she says this whole boxing match is just a sorry spectacle, and Social media is just a massive TIME SUCK. Yesssssssss.

[@FutureMusicCreationsAi]

"You're simply not going to lie on your deathbed thinking, why didn't i spend more time on social media" Surely that's a T-Shirt...

[@peoplevrobot]

Mike Tyson is a remarkable man. When I say remarkable I don’t mean that he is virtuous or a role model. He is someone who survived a brutal childhood in Brooklyn in absolute poverty and in a one bedroom appartment where his mum turned tricks while they waited outside. By 12 he had been arrested 30 times. People in that environement die young but he found boxing and through talent, work ethic and singular focus became one of the greatest fighters in history. However, the fame, the ridiculous money and the traumatic childhood left him rudderless and a brutish egomaniac and marked his downfall. He has spent the last 30 years trying to find peace with himself and others. He is a dedicated student of history (Frankish Kings, Rome, Greece) and is familiar with Cicero and other classic philosophers. Mike Tyson is both his greatest champion and most devious adversary. He is like a character from classic litterature.

[@LinoWalker]

More than anything else, I think the death of his daughter is what really changed him. As for the fight itself... I'm just happy he got a good payday. Given how much he was screwed out of his fortune (by unscrupulous people who took advantage of the fact that he was a poor kid who never got a proper education in personal finance), I think he's earned the right to phone in a fight or two.

[@mev202]

This is why boxing gyms need to survive in run down, high crime areas. They are the way out for so many disillusioned young men.

[@ValuedComment]

You forgot to mention that he's a convicted rapist, but I suppose some people are happy to wear blinkers if they're a big enough fan of someone...

[@KristineMaitland]

I recommend seeing comedian Josh Johnson on KZbin and his take on Mike and Jake, speaking of philosophical.

[@ellydavis2066]

And convicted rapist. I watched a bit of it but when I saw the state he was in I went and did the washing up. My BF watched it, just for the spectacle really. Neither of us know who the other guy was apart from that he was a KZbinr so I was surprised to hear he got paid more than Tyson. I would have thought Tyson was the draw, as he was with us. His attitude about legacy was really refreshing to hear.

[@Ulleskelf]

No one on their death bed is going to say I wish I listened to more podcasts either, but we do, rather than having meaningful connections with actual humans.

[@lightspeedtractor]

Excellent bit on Social Media. You both really nailed it. Which is incredibly sad to be, but well. Still. Well done :)

[@AnnaSayenko-f6s]

Thanks for the forecast! Just a quick off-topic question: I have a SafePal wallet with USDT, and I have the seed phrase. (alarm fetch churn bridge exercise tape speak race clerk couch crater letter). Could you explain how to move them to Binance?

[@nicemandan]

I think around 2010 the mantra of "never believe anything on the internet" somehow got lost, and people started believing everything on the internet.

[@ActualMichael]

Gave up on Netflix when they went to the commercial version. I understand what they were trying to do. To keep it affordable for those who could not afford to pay more so that they did not lose customers while manipulating those who could afford to pay more but weren’t into paying more for the service. I don’t have a problem with commercials as a tool for making something free to the public, although it does make them somewhat enslaved to their corporate advertisers as to what content they make which can easily become censorship. My problem is paying to watch advertising, which is one of the reasons why I didn’t have cable. Either make it free with advertising or paid without advertising. In any case I don’t care for boxing so wouldn’t have watched anyway.

[@margaretgaskin4928]

For once you're both wrong on the BlueSky social media thing. Yes of course it will degenerate and people will migrate again. But like KZbin and podcasts etc etc, people are being given agency in their own lives. Not enough but, if the 80s Reagan/Thatcher era destroyed community, social media rebuilt it. You are sitting as media professionals saying "I prefer creating content in this media rather that media": 99% of people never got to create any content medium before. Cacophony is better than no voice for anyone but snotty professionals.

[@Carrythe2]

💯They really need to stop commenting on social media if all they’re going to do is bang on about how bad the whole concept is. A lot of people built smaller, helpful, positive communities on Twitter that were ruined. It’s good to see them reforming on Bluesky, which has the benefit of being decentralised, not under the control of some narcissistic multi-billionaire. None of that got a mention, of course. R+M only see it through the lens of their media-addicted columnist friends who take it too seriously.

[@ascotalexanderbruce]

Forget the fact it came out of Tyson's mouth, but he's dead right about legacy. That's just ego.

[@BellaRainDrops]

First John Lewis AD I remember is the one with the bear that had never seen Christmas it was beautiful, it had Lily Allen singing Keene.

[@giffgaffnettwork5626]

I quite like Tyson's quote that there is no such thing as legacy, "When I'm gone, I'm dust, that's it, dust!" No false modesty from the ex-con who was convicted of rape, yet hires a hotel suite to house his pigeons on tour. By the time, Federal taxes, agent fees and other expenses are taken from his fees, he will be lucky to clear a $1m for losing an exhibition match against Paul. Colleen Rooney will earn more for her jungle visit. Would we pay to see Vardy and her box? Probably and BTW, there would be one winner and Vardy would lose badly yet again.

[@RogerWarszawa]

For me, the most maddening/sickening thing about the recent Tyson/Paul fight is that Mike Tyson is a convicted rapist, registered sex offender, self-admitted domestic abuser, and has had multiple sexual assault allegations against him. But people just still don't seem to care about violence against women. Men are still allowed to move on and get their careers back, and people are still happy to admire and adore them again. It's like MeToo and Time'sUp never happened. I'd love to see a time when men who are guilty of such crimes are punished and then ignored, not given any second chances and certainly not become acclaimed, successful or celebrated again. But I guess that's too much to hope for.

[@Phoney72]

The old Holidays are coming Coke ad will always be my favourite Christmas advert. Thsts when i could start getting excited when i was at school

[@flynndean]

It's a (short) lifetime ago, but the Yellow Pages Mistletoe Christmas Advert is the best/most iconic for me...

[@juneculhane9302]

My favourite Christmas add as a kid was the Budweiser

[@ChrisH78]

I saw something about the Coke ad saying they produced 85hrs of material but only 15 seconds of it was usable.

[@lucyj8204]

I joined Twitter in 2008 and hung on for a long while with a heavily curated lovely feed, but Xitter is just horrible and all the awful bits were forced on me so the nice bits got drowned out. I'm sorry to have lost some of the games we played there (#WorldCupOf) and annual delights (Chris Addison daily Advent carols) but I couldn't stay. EM clearly got what he wanted from it and won't care at all that the I'm curating my new "good news, be nice" platform (not Bluesky, fwiw) and watching the inevitable waves of nonsense go by.

[@philipellis7039]

I don’t like boxing very much. The pro version with ring girls,etc, seems particularly archaic and ugly to me. My son who has never expressed any interest in boxing ever yet stayed up to watch the Tyson fight as an event, water cooler moment stuff I guess. I think it was in Texas because the match wouldn’t be allowed under the rules in most states?

[@Elwaves2925]

Boxing is nothing more than legalised assault. Putting aside specialised equipment and location, it's the one sport I can think of where you'd be arrested for doing it in a park or field. All others you can do without any real consequence. I was hoping the headline would be "Fake fight ends with both of them braindead." Seeing as they both are already.

[@matthewhayes7765]

I see you've never stepped foot in a boxing gym in your life 😂😂 ​@@Elwaves2925

[@TonyP_Yes-its-Me]

I joined twitter just to follow a few comedians, and get a few jokes every day. It was fine at first when you only saw the folks you followed. Then twitter kept pushing accounts at me, often political, often controversial. If I blocked them, then I just got pushed another almost identical accounts, just as political, just as controversial. I eventually left, and just stuck with Facebook. Now I've quit Facebook. Cold turkey, baby.

[@PortobelloPink]

The best Christmas advert will always be Toys’R’Us.! Miss it so much

[@ValuedComment]

In the latest podcast, there was a tiny mention of Tyson making some bad decisions in his life, relating to the fact that he's a convicted rapist, but the MSM, including the Guardian, has been running endless stories about the Tyson/Paul circus event and not one of them mention Tyson's conviction. It reminds me of everyone, including Gary Lineker, referring to Paul Gascoigne as a bit of a character/national treasure/genius footballer, trotting out their favourite 'Gazza' anecdotes or moments from his career. Some of us remember seeing shocking photos of his former wife, with her saying he beat her black and blue. At what point does a celebrity become immune to criticism for their actions? Was crying at the World Cup enough for Gazza? I was a fan of Tyson in his prime, but as a father of a teenage daughter I couldn't have sat down and watched that fight on Netflix and felt alright about it.

[@thecroft6070]

The Day of The Jackal is great... until the end of episode 6. If you know you know.

[@cfishist]

My favourite Christmas advert: Wes Anderson's train ad for H&M.

[@rorrt]

My favourite xmas advert, has to be the 2014 Sainsbury's.

[@AlanHamilton-j5i]

Steve Baker is the man to give you a lesson in reality, Richard, but people turn their backs.

[@AchtungEnglander]

.........was there a fight? Sorry I was watching The Penguin.

[@stitcha123]

It takes everything the Batman had and really kicks it up a notch.

[@b62boom1]

That "fight" confirmed everything that made me stop watching boxing years ago.

[@jackayers4955]

I like the Chanel dancing on the moon advert from a few years ago.

[@csurname]

2:35 Paul's done some less amazing things directly to women, of course

[@clafoutis2758]

I just watched the ai coke ad and I hated it! No humans just uncanny valley animals. How on earth did this get a 5.9?

[@garethgriffiths1674]

Fully agree! Its syrupiness perhaps appeals more to the American mindset. What turns my stomach too is that its about the joy (sic) of lorries delivering coca-cola. By contrast, the UK Christmas ads have an edginess about them, and usually don't put the advertiser at centre stage.

[@neilold7291]

Tyson and Paul manage to successfully defeat the audience

[@87mc12]

This feels like the first ever episode where Richard has asked back how she is instead of just getting stuck into the conversation 😂

[@buenisimoingles4866]

He's been told to because Marina IS the podcast

[@MarklovesTV]

Maybe Tyson doesn’t care about his legacy much because when he grew up very poor, went to the American version of borstal and has been to proper prison twice and one of his children have died.

[@andybrice2711]

I think it might be possible to create a more positive platform for online communities. But it can't be modelled after Twitter. That's a fundamentally flawed communication medium, which brings out the worst in people, by actively incentivising tribalism, conflict, sensationalism, and narcissism. It needs a different format and algorithm, which incentivises more positive interactions, rather than maximising engagement.

[@nikkershaw8385]

I think that Richard's comments are totally accurate. I'd take it even further, the migration from the "old" to the "new" happens in every facet of life, and content is no different. Start with Indigenous forms of communication like Song Lines all the way to streamed and always available content. Social media is just another form of content, like books, movies, TV and live performances. I know people will say books are different, but they are not; they are just content of information from a person's perspective. As people get older, they just realise that it doesn't really matter what, what does matter are the relationships they have with other people. Anyway, we can't change it and never will as it is"The Human Condition".

[@brewsawa]

Richard is correct. It was a fun cultural moment and anyone who thinks its tarnished boxing lollllll

[@MrStanBowles]

Almost as sad as the taskmaster live experience 🤑

[@FloatingAnarchy61]

Richard has a point about these type of gimmick 'fights', being a long tradition in Boxing. I can remember a fight Ali had with a Japanese wrestler Antonio Inoki in 1976. Of course it was a farce, Inoki spent most of his time on his back, kicking Ali's legs (it was calculated he hit Ali's legs 107 times). This 'fight' was declared a draw. Ali was heavyweight champion at the time and along with his win against Foreman two years earlier and the brutal Thrilla In Manila obviously contributed to his later health problems. In fact his later problems with thrombosis are attributed in part to the Inoki farce. I hope Richard was being sarcastic when he mentioned 'lovely emo' tunes in Christmas adverts. Classic songs (in some cases) ruined by a breathy usually female singer. The absolute nadir for this was Lily Allen's version of Keane's Somewhere Only We Know. I didn't think it was possible to make Keane even more wetter and insipid, but Lily managed it. Next year's John Lewis ad, a heart warming tale of Christmas, soundtracked by Crass's Do They Owe Us A Living (course they 'flippin' do), sung by Ellie Goulding.

[@ronanmartin1990]

Tyson is a legend . That interview he did with the kid was hilarious and spot on.

[@martyspandex]

That clip from the interview I found quite sad, a memento mori. I'm guessing the rest was more lighthearted and fun.

[@ascotalexanderbruce]

He shattered her perception. The look on her face was priceless.

[@megaskyburst]

“If it makes money it makes sense” 🥊

[@momatmach1]

Never used Twitter, don’t care about TV ads at all and boxing does nothing for me, wonder why I watched this but I did.

[@TallulahMorgana]

I do see a benefit to social media within the chronic illness community. There is some misinformation but also it will have saved lives and helped loneliness. Especially for us 'zebra' patients. 💜

[@ctid107]

I'd say the "Wagatha Christie" catfight beats it hands down..

[@russellandrews1177]

It's called Dunbar's number

[@Matthew-mp2qz]

The fight should never have happened. Mike could have been seriously hurt. 8 two minute rounds were too much for him. it wasnt even classed as an exhibition.ridiculous. Jake paul only cares about money and not about being a serious boxer or he would follow a route to a belt. He shouldnt have been sanctioned to box.

[@exonusgod]

I think not enough people look at where their time spend is. Phones tell you where you spend your time on apps. Most people would be surprised how much time they really spend on apps Vs how much time they think they spend.

[@morgwn2377]

The loss of hope is one of the most profoundly disappointing problems of contemporary culture.

[@shondellsb604]

It doesn't really matter that the Coke advert was done via AI - of course it tested well, it contains so many familiar touchpoints and the Coke Christmas ad is anticipated by people during the year anyway.

[@rklammer]

Tell your 'ghost' producer in the reflection behind Richard to wave next time, he looks as bored as the people Marina was describing 🤣

[@monkeymansingsSKA]

To be fair though, without social media I would never have known I was a snowflake

[@leesmith9299]

staff don't care about adverts. they want good pay and good working environment. looking at the world through your own industry and making it seem more important than it is.

[@Cchogan]

when it comes to Tyson and legacy, Richard is forgetting that Tyson’s “legacy” includes jail for rape, ear biting, and other controversies. His view on legacy might well be informed by all that too. So I wouldn’t put much store by his statement.

[@wonsworld61]

btw.. who is the ghost in the curtains behind Richard's mic?

[@jeanettepowell7324]

The fight promoter said he didn't even watch the fight? Is that what normally happens???? I just saw it on another podcast ... might not be true??

[@bernardwathen9349]

I am constantly amazed at Richard's tolerance of b*llsh*t that rip unsuspecting people off. He really has become out of touch with the man in the street. Some of their insights are interesting, but i often abandon their episodes

[@mtullock]

Lidls music video last year was yhe best ever 😂

[@dominiccallaghan1176]

You missed 'Afterlife' then?

[@GrahamA63]

Not going to the Boots ad then?

[@monishbiswas1966]

I suspect there is not a lot to say about it.

[@gomezthechimp1116]

I'm not sure why I watch these. I don't have Sky or Netflix, I haven't watched an 'entertainment' or quiz show for years and I'm not on Twitter (formerly known as X), or indeed any social media platform; well except a long dormant Facebook account.

[@buenisimoingles4866]

I suppose its a little less shit than some other content

[@cjarmstrong5939]

Nobody. Nobody won. This has been inevitable since the start of this terrible trend.

[@Elwaves2925]

The ones that 'won' are the ones who had no interest and didn't watch. So I feel like a winner.

[@melissah8415]

Bluesky is supposed to kick out the nasty trolls and not allow hate speech. We'll see if they can do it.

[@craigm6878]

Ditched Shitter X this time last year, one year clean, Marina is right, give social media hysteria a miss.

[@russellfrancis6294]

I didn't watch it because I'm a boxing fan.

[@shelaghaiken-yu6zq]

Katie Taylor does care

[@martyspandex]

I think Richard was over-romanticising the advent of Twitter. Plus, the effects of the Blair years came much later. Blair was riding on the crest of a wave already in motion. The 90's was a brilliant decade culturally.

[@melissah8415]

That "fight" was pretty much elder abuse. And yes, this is just the start of making a WWE version of boxing.

[@Subcomandante73]

A good reason to cancel Netflix :)

[@David-j9h9g]

only watched the undercard...was good...

[@MoonbeameSmith]

Who is the ghost behind Richard?

[@janey1798]

Discovered you only a few short weeks ago, thank you for your sanity.

[@COLINHILLSWIMS]

I'm sure most people leaving Twitter, just don't want to support Musk, but they want to have social media (I think Richard is overthinking this one). It's more a moral choice, should you indirectly support/enable Elon?

[@neilold7291]

Boxing purists obviously detested the Tyson paul fight. They hated it because of what it was and they hate Jake Paul for who he is, not because it isnt a circus. Its the fact that entertainment and money has corrupted the view and is full of arguments that osman espouse

[@KristineMaitland]

I'm a fuddy duddy. I'm only Facebook. I only post to my friends. That's enough.

[@SkinnyObelix]

funny how katie taylor is mentioned as the real boxing, while she literally kept her title because of questionable refs, like the fight against Persoon.

[@archwombat9250]

Marinas celebrity cash grab boxing match would have to be against Guy Ritchie.

[@redmed10]

Why is everybody talking about it including the rest is? Its car crash tv as most tv is these days.

[@leesmith9299]

no richard, i heard sooooo many people left right and centre having debates over who would win the "fight". i was constantly telling people it's just an exhibition and not a real fight and they would not listen. you've invented your own narrative there that the audience was in on it like wwf. i feel like he's always trying to not be cynical even when it's very much warranted.

[@NickDusting]

Having grown up watching Tyson go from an articulate, respectful phenomenally talented boxer (look for an early interview with Harry carpenter).... to a Don King mentored spectacle who was beaten by Buster Douglas I have to disagree with Richard. Tyson stopped caring when he fell in to Don Kings clutches. The latest farce is testament to the ruination of the sports integrity. At least WWE never pretended to take itself seriously.

[@AaBb-id1dm]

Not Twitter again. This podcast is obsessed with it. I wish they’d talk about actual entertainment

[@buenisimoingles4866]

They're part of the problem dude. I haven't touched Twitter for 10 years and never think about it except when twats go on about it constantly giving it more power. Just STFU about Twitter and it goes away.

[@DJPsRock]

All I know is I didnt

[@danielkarmy4893]

Personally, I don't think a convicted rapist should be allowed anywhere near a 14-year-old interviewer, or anybody else for that matter, but hey, because he's Mike Tyson, everyone's fine with it.

[@John-Dennehy]

Richard is way off about boxing fans. If people didn't care then UFC wouldn't be so popular. Fight fans are sick and tired of the pantomime

[@ainemannion7739]

Our legacy is nothing 💀

[@human_devops]

Shout out to Dunbar's number and Usenet