It’s Vibrating When Braking & It’s Not the Rotors. How to Test! (Nissan Versa)

[@lynskyrd]

the fact that you were transparent about having the customer return multiple times until you finally resolved the issue- and then taking us through the process while openly admitting "this is on us" - much respect. I would always tell my kids; "I don't care of you make a mistake- just be honest about it - no excuses, then make it right". Thanks for doing this video.

[@ohioedde]

He did it backwards tommy = he should not try to pass the buck at start = then admiting = just admits he lies at first = or just was embarresed and admit = no lie = no need for correction ????/

[@Andrew-ep4kw]

100%. I was going to comment, but you said everything I was thinking. Everybody, including businesses, makes mistakes. The real test is how do they respond when that happens.

[@naruttaanime9471]

Free labor to customer, only charge for hub.. now it is best to change hubs in pairs because the older good hub on the other side has more wear and more rolling resistance. so it will pull

[@faff1987]

I have a question.. I took my car into garage to get to get new discs and pads. When I picked up the car the rear brakes over heated & pads, alloys, everything is perfect, tried the flush, new break lines, new callipers but still overheating!! It’s the wheel bearing ect I simply can not find the problem!!

[@lynskyrd]

@@faff1987 id start by lifting the rear off the ground- actuate the brakes and verify that the calipers are not locking. Feel the tension on the wheels after you release the brake. Heat means friction, friction comes from the pads grabbing the disc. They have to 'release' when you let off the brake. Also check the slide pins - a lot of people don't clean those things which stops the caliper from 'returning'. You eliminated dirty fluid- that was good but I'd refocus on the calipers themselves.

[@ohger1]

If you suspect this, mark the high spot and low spot on the rotor with chalk marks. Remove the rotor and turn it 180 degrees and remeasure. If the high and low spots stay the same, it's the rotor. If it runout changes on the rotor when the rotor is repositioned on the hub, it's the hub. Measuring the hub directly isn't always easy or even possible depending on tool.

[@mbulut7]

RESPECT

[@mikeblaszczak5346]

You must mean 180 degrees and not 180 percent.

[@ohger1]

@@mikeblaszczak5346 Yep. Edited - thanks.

[@garygruber1452]

excellent analysis!

[@DonziGT230]

It would be much easier to just move the dial indicator to the hat, or hub area, of the rotor.

[@jeffreyhuffman6230]

I've been a master mechanic for a number of years now, and I have to say it is EXTREMELY RARE for a technician to admit fault, then show you how they messed up. Cudos to you sir. I wish EVERY technician I hired had your integrity. Side note, what a nice, clean, organized shop. Beautiful. Keep doing you sir! 🤯🎇🎊🎊💯

[@fwoodman]

90% of the shop will not do this kind of troubleshooting nor have all the tools to troubleshoot like you did. Awesome job!

[@fuckjewtube69]

This is apprentice level diag buddy relax. Customers don't pay for this that's why no one does it.

[@harrisonparm8274]

Agreed. Most shops will blame it on the rotor and label it as "defective" to get the customer in and out. Great job with fully diagnosing this issue.

[@tonydavis190]

Had the same problem on my 97 Thunderbird front hub: replaced the rotor & pads and it still vibrated. Another symptom was that the brakes didn't immediately bite right away- this was due to the side-to-side motion of the rotor pushing the brake piston into into the bore, thus creating a bigger gap between the pad & rotor when the brakes were not applied. Although I didn't have a dial gage, I performed a similar test with the rotor bolted down and the caliper & pads removed from brackets- I could see the movement by staring at the gap between the rotor & pad mounting bracket. Sure enough, a new hub made the car drive like new!

[@trevor9917]

So, by the time you've replaced the hub and checked the runout on that new hub (and you BETTER do that), tightened the axle nut to spec (and these have a notorious issue with the LS axle nut backing off), put the rotors on a brake lathe to see if they require machining, then put the whole shit back together properly (pad lube, torque bolts to spec, install wheels, torque lug nuts to spec, test drive etc.) you've spent half a day and about $1000 in parts and labor ... ON A VERSA!

[@naruttaanime9471]

Good tip also is No Mo Chinese Rotors! Go with Detroit Axle of Michigan or Cardone of Pennsylvania. Bunch of old Italian master mechanics still there doing Gods Work in The Rust Belt Fossil fuel capitals.

[@deman817]

I do appreciate when people admit the mistake and take care of it. It builds trust and loyalty

[@jondoh3471]

They only admit it on camera.

[@HeathJ.Ledger]

I have high respect for shop owners and techs that acknowledge if something was done incorrectly and not only take responsibility for their work but also share their mistake(s) with others so everyone else can be aware. Amazing work guys! I’m sure you guys will be blessed with more work to come with people looking for genuine and honest techs as yourselves! Keep up the good work!

[@sasquatchrosefarts]

This is amateur hour. They should call this channel peasant auto service. How could you ever sell a service without checking the hub? And give everything a good hard shake.

[@petiecoe5294]

Why are you here then friend ​@@sasquatchrosefarts

[@TylerJohnson-li8yt]

“We failed”. That’s refreshing to actually hear sometimes. Owning your mistakes is a virtue that’s not practiced much in today’s time of “finding someone or something else to blame”. Not only that but it was the whole purpose of the video, (along with teaching)! Speaks a lot to the caliber of people you are. I like that you guys are honest and straight up. It’s refreshing to see.

[@missabe77]

You should have said ”caliper” of people”.

[@ChrisL-qh1pq]

Next to the technical advice/tips, your humility in admitting your mistake and rectifying the problem were beyond admirable, professional and refreshing! Bravo sir!

[@hellshade2]

@ChrisL-qh1pq the sorry thing is no matter how good a shop is there tends to be a few mechanics working there that can be lazy and cut corners on a job. if i was waiting on rotors from an outside part house i would make sure everything else was ready to go. this included checking the runout on hubs. but 90% of the times the hubs were fine. but if you live in an area where you deal with a lot of bad roads and potholes then you may see more hub issues than usual

[@collinbonebrake1119]

​@hellshade2 the shop I work at is 1.10 hrs on most brake jobs per axle meaning front brake job pads and rotors is 1.10 hrs and rear brake job pads and rotors is 1.10. Not counting 2500 or 3500 trucks. So your saying you would stay clocked in to that brake job to check hub runout? I'm being polite and not being a smart ass. I truly just want to know. Thanks in advance

[@heythere6983]

@collinbonebrake1119 As a customer I’d expect you to do your job properly and not have me waste money on your labor and unnecessary parts

[@paulkuras18]

Professional

[@lilguilty]

Man I wish your shop was near me what a honest place. Not only fixing the customers car but being honest with their mistake and even posting it for the world to see

[@FredandChase]

More mechanics should be like you. Its a mark of professionalism to admit your mistakes and implement corrections.

[@MrSettin007]

1st! I want to applaud you for admitting that this was something you should have done from the start instead of just switching out parts. I mainly work on all my own cars (For 30+ years now) But there are times I take it to the shop because I have no time or a lift. Knowing that you may have been busy and the few times you did get caught with a problem that wasn't an easy fix you decided to video it for us. So we know where the mistake was made and how to look at it from a different angle is a great service and teaching tool for the public. (Me included) I will use that as I add more videos to my channel as well. Thank you for teaching and sharing your experience.

[@abhijeetsingh2530]

😊

[@abhijeetsingh2530]

😊😊

[@rkardos4220]

Most mechanic shops have glorified part changers as techs. It's nice to see a professional process of diagnosis

[@jeffconley819]

But they did mess up the first time. They threw the wrong parts at it just like a parts changer. Only when it came back again did they do what they should have done the first time.

[@frankstetka7206]

With a line of customers a mile long and competitive pricing, 8.6 times out of 10, slapping on new parts works.

[@KStewart-th4sk]

@@jeffconley819 Nobody is going to suspect a hub is bad; that would be extremely rare. The second time it came back is when the measurements should have been taken, if the customer complained he had a vibration. I highly doubt any shops are going to check for run-out, when they install new rotors.

[@opinionsvary]

​@KStewart-th4sk In my experience: No. Hub bearing get wasted when people hammer on the mounting flange usually to fix broken lug studs or to release corroded aluminum rims. Probably should cut the new rotors & not trust they're true out of the box. Also too big tires are hard on bearings just like bent rims & off balance tires. Pobably should make sure all your lug nuts are tight first & then if rotor to hub mount is clean. Or take a tech class to learn basic skills.

[@2vcrew782]

Most weekend warriors don’t turn wrenches for a living and do not know what it takes to get cars fixed and out the door. Remember people have zero patience they want their cars back yesterday and want an answer.

[@psycle1]

Love to see a shop doing things the right way, looking up spec and measuring.

[@juliuslomarda1975]

much respect! the time he said "It's on us now" hands down

[@bailment1]

I rarely comment on KZbin videos but you sir are teaching us all a master class on the proper way of doing things. I’m retired from my professional career but have taken on auto repair as a retirement hobby. I’ve made the commitment to learning these things and having the right tools to do the job. Your videos are a fantastic resource for someone like me who isn’t on the clock and wants to do it right. One thing you may not be aware of is every time you use a tool or a shop supply, I make it a point to order it immediately. Really appreciate your recommendations in this area. Keep up the fantastic work! This is great stuff!

[@vicdhillon7723]

Like you, I've built up a crazy number of tools in my arsenal. Some of which I have more than one of since I can't seem to find what I'm looking for when I need it months down the road. Someone's gonna have a field day at my estate sale one day. 🤣🤣

[@josephklimchock5412]

Back in my day of working mostly on cars, in the 70's and 80's,, when we ordered new rotors, the small family owned parts shop we used also had a machine shop that would take the new rotors out of the box and at least check them for true and lightly machine them if needed. They did that free of charge to insure we got a good product and help prevent come backs.

[@alro2434]

WOW, they musta been burned bad once!

[@hotrodowner1965]

Honesty is ALWAYS the best route. I know your customers appreciate you. And we need more like you and your team. I learned alot and have missed this before on my hotrods.

[@thisColdDecember]

there's something magical about a person who so easily says "I was wrong, I'm gonna fix it"

[@DirectCurrent4u]

Always check Your New Rotors on a Brake Lathe to see if they are warped. A lot of times I have found when they have been sitting 10 high on a shelf they can get warped and have a lot of runout. I always check and take off a couple of thousands with a finish cut on all the New Rotors I install.You would be surprised how many new Rotors are out if tolerance from the factory! I have also had to cut and clean up the bearing hub because of runout like you found in this video. Great video and thanks for sharing! 👍

[@CycloneCyd]

I've just asked that question in main comments: why not machine that hub instead of fitting a new one? How would you go about doing that? I realise that would not be something a DIYer could do (so not a subject for my channel), but I'm interested to know because I have a squeezy feeling I may have the same problem. (I realise you'd have to remove the studs lol)

[@Greg_Gatsby]

@@CycloneCydThat’s the point I was looking for. The hub and the rotor have a mating surface that must be flat. That hub might have had a lip interfering with the proper mating with the rotor.

[@bobdittloff5966]

​@@CycloneCydafter machining would you change the clearance for the tires on a turn or is that negligible?

[@markdebeer1252]

As a BMW Diagnostic Technician of 45 years, I taught many an apprentice. You covered four of my five starting points of diagnosis: ie Read The Fn Book (RTFB), Verify the specs, Disk/Hub cleanliness, Disk thickness/parallelism and lastly Wheel Bearing Play. The latter being the overwhelming cause, due to obstacle, pot hole or curb strikes, not so commonly transferred to the hub due to the material used but not excluded.

[@genebartle7715]

Mega respect for you guys admitting your mistake and then turning it into a teachable moment for millions of us. By the way, I'm in the rust belt - rust sucks.

[@adedapoalabi5442]

I experienced a vibration issue when braking. while work was been done to replace front wheel disc, it was discovered that the problem was due to one of the two caliper guide bolts on the driver’s side being slightly bent. This bent bolt was creating friction, which in turn led to the vibration when I applied pressure on the brake pedal. The discovery of the bent guide bolt was quite strange and unexpected. Unfortunately, I had already purchased a new disc and brake pad, which, as it turns out, were unnecessary. Sharing experience to ensure others can be aware of this possibility when experiencing vibration.

[@TrumpTrainShorts]

Hope u didn’t throw out the old equipment just save it for when you need it lol

[@fsj197811]

My Dad has been fighting with a vibration while braking with his Avalanche. Pads and rotors changed and still vibrates. Thanks for the heads up on the hub, I wouldn't have thought of that. Thanks for sharing.

[@pattfam5663]

Was it the hub? And what year Avalanche? I'm dealing with the same thing with my tahoe.

[@fsj197811]

@@pattfam5663 2003 but it's a 2500 not the usual 1500. As for a fix, it's not my truck and he hasn't driven it for the last 5 months. Good luck to you.

[@pattfam5663]

Ok, thanks, I heard it can be wheel hubs and even over thightend wheel lug nuts

[@robbyddurham1624]

I've had the lug nuts over tightened cause a pulsing when braking. It was a 95 gmc 1500

[@fsj197811]

@@robbyddurham1624 Thanks for the reply. I suppose it's possible but doubtful as this has been persistent through brake replacements and several tire rotations. And all this through the dealership who should be able to find the problem.

[@jamespowell4950]

The sign of a great leader, accountability. You my friend are a great leader.

[@ohioedde]

great = lie , great = decieve , great what ??

[@wadecartwright4277]

​@@ohioeddeis that you smeagol

[@mmi6280]

You didn’t fail, your guys learned something new.

[@MrFairworld]

With this gentleman, I feel like I am learning new trick everytime.

[@1STGeneral]

This is getting into star wars territory. When the camera angle changed I was not expecting to see braided hair on the mechanic.....Definitely got me 😮

[@joer3890]

Yeah me too. That hair style's Gotta go, bro!!!

[@TheCocksmuggler]

@@joer3890 Imagine lookin up a video on brake issues and complainin about the mechanics hair that is teaching you your shit lmao, so incredibly vain.

[@jjjpetersen]

@@joer3890ya the hair… I gotta say it’s wtf?! & freaky!😝🤢 & also dudes with hair buns just looks stupid.😵‍💫

[@christopherseigel6693]

Haaaaa! I said the same thing to myself. I can't watch the rest or take this tool bag seriously.

[@aaronprdmo]

bc of how he chooses to wear his hair? Sounds like you’re the tool bag! seriously.

[@zorrozusa2646]

Im very pleased with your presentation. I used to be a machinist back in 1990's decade working first on manual then later on CNC machines. Calipers and Mics are basic tools to find the cause of unparalelism and other anomalies of material. Everyday precise calibration of tools guaranties correct results proper action. Thanx for very proffesional approach . Cheers

[@jacobclark89]

Yes , calibration and quility tools don't hurt either , if I'm gona toque somthing like a valve body maybe the inexpensive toque wrench would work but I think I will use a calibrated snapon or similar .

[@mandrix6323]

I am not a certified mechanic. But I have done the majority of my own vehicle repairs including engine rebuilds (when I was much younger). Boy howdy I wish you and KZbin were around 30-40 years ago, I've learned much from you.

[@kotter1518]

Back to the basics.I was taught how to do this in my high school mechanics class. I have long since forgotten about it. This was a great refresher. Good chance it's the reason why my mother-in-law's brakes are still pulsating after a rotor and pad change. Thank you.

[@youareright5431]

I had this on a Honda Civic once,A bent hub was common back in the 90s!! Thats why those rotor cutters that used to be mounted to the spindles were so cool 😂😂😂

[@robertmedina6875]

You guys are the best and we’re all human! People are in a hurry to get their cars and we have a lot to do. It’s an honest mistake! It doesn’t happen very often like that from what I’ve seen. Thanks for the videos you guys do a great job on your videos, and I can’t wait to see more! So glad I found you guys on KZbin!❤

[@robertmedina6875]

Thanks guys

[@MeL1AutoDiagnostics]

Countless times I’ve gotten vehicles misdiagnosed for vibrations because of bent hubs great lesson to learn here great video !!

[@kylestrait-fl8ql]

Good leaders say "we" in failure, "they" in success, while dealing with internal issues internally. Owning the failure and building success out of it. Excellent demo.

[@burtellis9710]

I want to compliment you on this video and explanation of a fundamental that most mechanics are never taught as apprentices in school (Canada) or anywhere else as the mechanics they apprentice under were never taught this nor the previous one in the "chain" of mechanic-apprentice-mechanic-apprentice on and on. As an engineer, I was teaching this in my shop(s) as far back as the beginning of disc brake useage in late 70's. Also, I taught that anyone taking a measurement of ANY kind had to WRITE IT DOWN when taken...ALWAYS... so errors became almost non existent. Additionally, all such measurements and final machining measurements were RECORDED and transferred to work order as a permanent record that the CUSTOMER ALSO RECEIVED. (Costly? NO! It made technicians alert and careful and saved them time when it became the SHOP STANDARD PROCEDURE. ) Even flat-rate technicians found it saved them time on come-backs which virtually disappeared and the shop saved even more in customer goodwill and loyalty. Quality doesn't COST, properly done, it SAVES! Again, great training video!

[@reteipegal7690]

@burtellis9710 • Why did Canada only start using disc brakes in the late 70's? The first disc brakes were on Jaguars in 1952, followed by Citroën DS 1957. By the 60's they were common on many American and some German cars. I was taught this procedure in 1967 by VW when the 1967 1500 Beetle was fitted with disc brakes.

[@davesdoitallservice]

👍

[@SeilerRdAuto]

Good video! Thank you for showing the “mistake”. I think 99.9% of shops would have thought it was the rotors, as would I. Good learning experience for all. Not to mention a reminder that I need to invest in a good dial indicator!

[@guy7670]

Very inexpensive on amazon

[@nickwiesneski]

Salt belt tip, in case useful to someone... I coat the rotor and wheel contact faces with anti-seize to prevent rust sticking them together (could do the same with rotor to hub rust you mentioned here if it's an issue for you). Had enough tire changes over the years where I had to kick a tire loose from the rust. Can be problematic if you find yourself having to change a flat or something on the side of the road. Zero problems, always easy removal since anti-seize coating.

[@spambedam]

Even a little axle grease if no anti seize is handy. I always put it on the lugs ever since twisting off a few back in my OHIO days. Not a prob in Arizona or California.

[@Hedonistic0Frog]

I do the same thing even in California when there's rust building up. I'd rather spend 15 seconds coating a surface than minutes getting the rust off again and avoiding breathing it in.

[@jimsix9929]

good tip, I live in Ohio, rust will grow on the hub and cause runout on the rotor, I always paint the hub with high temp aluminum paint, but anti seize would work too

[@mikeprice8307]

Now thats smart never thought of that. My dad recently done that with lithium grease.

[@Hedonistic0Frog]

@@bf3and4highlights83 He didn't mean where the brake pads go, but where the rotor meets the wheel and where it meets the hub.

[@heystarfish100]

I had this occurrence many years ago on a relatively new vehicle and the result was the customer having their front pads and rotors replaced several times within 5000 miles and even new wheel bearing hub replacement under factory warranty did not fix it. The problem found was stacked tolerances. The solution was an on the car brake rotor machining. Once completed the vehicle never returned for a complaint. The benefit of on the car rotor cutting is many including a non directional finish. Many brake rotors serviced on our standard AAMCO brake lathe developed brake pad knocking due to the machine cutting a screw thread across the face of the rotor. Even heavy sanding while on the lathe did not remove it. I was a huge fan of this on the car brake lathe and used it on every rotor disc I could. I had no issues with my brake work when completed.

[@NoName-tm2yq]

While I do as much of my car repairs as possible, I would not hesitate to let your shop work on my vehicles due to your honesty. One of the main reasons I started doing my own work was due to shoddy work at labor rates pushing $200 an hour.

[@hootinouts]

Much respect for you sir. Good catch on that hub. I'm surprised with how much runout it had that it wasn't rumbling during driving. Something I encountered was brake shudder on the front right wheel of my 2005 Nissan Altima with standard brakes. The hub was good, rotor was within spec, yet I'd still get occasional shudder. Then I learned about hard spots that can form on cast iron rotors due to overheating the rotor. The hard spots are called cementite, and once this forms, the rotor is basically unsalvageable and needs to be replaced. I replaced the rotor and the shudder disappeared. I believe that I may have inadvertently overheated the rotor when I was bedding in new brake pads.

[@bassinbillRC5300]

I just had new rotors and new disc pads installed on my 2019 Kia serento all-wheel drive vehicle. I slowly pressed down On the brake pedal the 5 or 6 times I use my break to stop while driving on a long stretch of road. That's the key go out on a long stretch of road and then 5 or 6 times maybe 7 slowly press the brake down preferably not on a freeway but on a too late in the highway this way you get the pads to seat and you won't overheat your rotors the first time you use them.

[@DJIfixstuff]

I have also seen hard spots on some rotors. My Daughters mini van was one and also on my SUV. New brakes and rotors but if you have a hard stop then park the car, the rotor is very hot. Most of the rotor cools gradually but the part covered by the pads stays hot for a very long time causing the hard spots in the metal or warpage or both. Then when you brake the pads grab normally until they hit that hard spot. They slide right past the hard spot and grab again, that causes the vibration and pulsating. No fix but to replace the rotor again. Even turning the rotor doesn't help from what I've read.

[@350x85]

He failed to determine potential rotor warpage between hub mount face and pad surface. If the axle and hub assembly was re-skimmed in a lathe and a slightly warped rotor was re-installed the problem to a lesser degree would persist I have salvaged numerous flywheels and brake rotors using ceramic inserts or surface grinding to remove cementite zones.

[@MrSilver708]

What an awesome video!! I love that you have your kids involved also ❤....as a mechanic myself I can count on one hand how many times I checked the hub runout on a car. 99.8% of the time its a rotor. Dont be hard on yourself man. I think all of us here would have had the same problem. Thanks for posting this 😊

[@paulspooner-q6k]

i do machining and auto Tech for 30 for years both jobs at my shop , both trades complement each other. if you would have moved your axle shaft up and down while watchig your dial indicator you might have saw something else also , so if the bearing play was off you would see it also, maybe look at that the next time. but i do think you are correct with your findings. At 66yoa i think way different than i use to. molecule size and leaks its fascinating to start thinking on a different level. the deeper you think the more things make sense

[@richardwilson5709]

correct, MANY bearings are cheap bad quality hustles! lower cost lower cost lower cost,, really. If the bearing is bad everything else shakes

[@dondale68]

In northern Ohio, I've gotta use a Dremel to clean the hubs and rotor hats, CLEAN!! Paint the mating surfaces with a bit of never seize, even years later I don't have to heat-n-beat, the rotor just slides off in my hands! Never Seize is your friend! I do like your videos,, VERY INFORMATIVE!! I never even thought of putting my indicator on the hub!!

[@taysinspired5787]

Most guys just swap pads and rotors and keep it moving just to save time. I can't stand pulsating steering during high-speed braking and always been an issue for me on FWD cars. I learned something new today. Thank you.

[@nicholasr7987]

Easiest way is on vehicles with re-repair or come in with vibration is my method. Hang the dial indicator, find the high spot on the rotor, mark it. Rotate 180 degrees. Measure again. If the high spot is in the same spot, its the rotor. If it follows the hub, its the hub. It takes longer to read this, than to measure it.

[@TSUTENKAKU007]

Thank you for this presentation as I never checked the rotor or hub measurements when I changed them in the past. Also when you emphasized how minute dirt inside the rotor can affect the measurement and need to clean all debris out in which I bet many DIY mechanics never think about.

[@MalteseMafia]

Great Video 👍 you stand by your repairs which is great to see. Your customers are lucky to have you.

[@Druze_Tito]

I went through all of this myself after 3 mechanics failed to do this check. I found out about it myself and bought myself a dial and measured the hubs in front of the 4th mechanic. Life.

[@woidonmiguel1]

I rarely go to a shop unless I have no way to do it myself, and it is mostly because I don't trust them. Too many do terrible work and won't stand behind it. After seeing this video I'd take my take my vehicles to you. You took the time to investigate and not just part swap and obviously held yourselves accountable for the lack of investigation from the previous fix. All that earned my trust. Too bad you are 7-8 hours away!

[@FlyLan]

Honest mechanics are hard to come by these days in my experience...at least in my area of East Texas. I've come to the realization that if I have the tools to do it myself, the cost vs risk (of screwing up) is definitely in my favor compared to taking it to one of the shops near me that just throw parts at a problem until the problem stops instead of properly diagnosing. I recently replaced my 2011 s197's rotors and pads, and discovered "runout". I got lucky after the fact because my braking wobble/vibration did stop with the rotor/pad replacement. I cup brushed and cleaned my hubs, but tbh they were so clean and rust free to begin with that all 4 OEM rotors came loose as soon as the caliper brackets were removed. I placed the new and old rotors back to back, one by one, lining up the lug holes, rotating the new rotor one lug hole at a time until the two rotors had the most contact with each other (least amount of gaps/light between the touching rear braking planes). This tells you where the old rotor was low or - then the new brake was high or + because the new brake filled in the space where the old brake had a valley and then turned the new rotor 180° to account for the mirror effect. The old rotor had a mark across 1 of the stud holes and studs from when the factory did the runout test and marked each rotors position for quick future indexing. I transferred that mark to the new "shade tree" indexed rotor and then indexed the new rotors to the correct stud when installing. I now know there are a multitude of reasons why this was a total waste of time, but it made sense when I was doing it, and like I said, whether it was pure dumb luck or if there was some truth to what I was doing, it seemed to work because there is ZERO wobble, shudder, or vibration where there was a severe one prior. 🤷🏻

[@acornsucks2111]

Sometimes mechanics are not dishonest, but they may not have updated equipment or been able to stay on top of everything.

[@fastinradfordable]

You used too many words to describe I replaced the rotors twice

[@grimspyder0001]

Its good to know that you guys are eating the cost of the repair, since you missed diagnosed and did an unnecessary repair. I stopped going to mechanics when a shop wanted to charge me to change parts, they didn't know the problem, so they wanted replace what they thought the problem was. When I asked " If that doesn't fix the problem, are you going to charge me?" When he said "Yes". I left without the letting them touch my car. Fixed it myself and never went back to a mechanic again it has been good 20 years.

[@C0Y0TE5]

It's like a lawyer or a doctor, dude: you pay for their TIME.

[@markharlock6474]

@@C0Y0TE5 - unfortunately, proper diagnostic investigation by "professionals" is a rarity these days, the customer should NOT be over-paying for unnecessary parts/time.

[@C0Y0TE5]

@@markharlock6474--Tell that to your lawyer; see how well that works out... -- The shortage of skilled mechanics mean that it is a SELLERS' market in auto repairs. -- Try telling them what to do, and they will fire you.

[@bobdittloff5966]

​@@C0Y0TE5 If i paint your house the wrong color are you still going to pay me?? I need to get paid for my time. Foolish argument. Doctors and Lawyers preface their mistakes by saying they are Practicing. Never heard of a mechanics practice. Practicing Lawyer, Practicing Doctor, those I've heard of.

[@EnsignBaiXin]

Great video. I had a similar issue forever and finally was going to replace my rotor and rebuild my calipers, then it started making noise all the time and clicked when turning, so I bought axles. I finally took it all apart and the hub fell out when I took the axle nut off. The bearing was completely shot and the symptoms were erratic and non-standard. I love his attitude on thorough diagnosis before deciding to swap things out.

[@jojiran]

I rarely comment but this is a great educational video . Mechanics these days are wrench moneys with very little diagnostic skills . Whenever there is brake pulsation the first suggestion in almost every YT video is to change the rotors . In the midwest , the salt corrodes. the hub like crazy and a curb hit easily can bend the hub . So as the comments below say - first check rotor runout , remove rotors and index , measure again.This will tell you if it is rotor or hub . If both are good look at calliper piston and calliper pins ,Next stop should be wheel balance

[@gmctech]

Great video! Additionally, improper wheel nut torquing will cause brake pulsations...

[@14KiloWhisky]

😂😂

[@jkinerk]

First time viewer and I really loved the video. I've been a lifelong hobbyst (so far from a professional), but I still learned something. I also like how you guys didn't skip over some of the details a lot of tutorials tend to gloss over. Really helps one understand the fundamentals of a job like this. Thanks for putting this out there!

[@TylerRivera635]

Wow! Gotta say as a technician, I definitely have overlooked this in the past. Great video! 👍🏼

[@waltercastro2015]

For almost 3 years after i purchased this truck in CarMax, i have been thinking 🤔 is it the hub? Never change it. I kept changing my rotors. I am glad i saw this video. Thank you so much.

[@edmundwoo2047]

Great to know the proper procedure. But very rarely you’re going to find shops who going to go that extra mile. You’re a one of kind.

[@cometcal2]

Excellent video. One more thing to check before messing with the hubs. Note how tight the the rotor fits over the hub and hub bolts. If tight, clean up the rotor holes to the lugs and rotor center hole. There needs to be a little bit of play when putting the rotor onto the hub. This solved my vibration problem when pressing on the brake pedal.

[@dmo848]

Also grease the pins. Took me yrs to figure out why only 1 side would always be shot n the other side fine.😂 it has no grease jus crusty crap. No wonder it couldn't move right. I felt dumb

[@cometcal2]

@@dmo848 I learned that lesson too. Moisture and dirt can get inside the pin area and freeze things up.

[@tima.478]

Good info here and nice to see how the automotive industry, in some cases, approach maint. As a commercial aircraft mechanic of 25 years, it's SOP (standard operating procedure) to suspect every part when we have a problem, right out the gate...not just one part or piece but everything that could possibly be associated.

[@caddyrack]

Finally someone who tells the truth. I agree with everything you said and do on this vid. Kudos to you to admit the shop short comings. The majority of pros who does what you just show don't do it because the time involved in doing it RIGHT, and they'll have a come back. I also agree with you that Europeans change rotors rather than machining for obvious reasons.....Of course torqueing the wheels is a MUST, done are the days of impact guns. Cheers

[@chronicblazer84]

What 😂😂😂 Europeans change rotors, because they are out of spec. I change rotors everytime I do a brake job on one of our automobiles. I'm not measuring the thickness, I really don't care much, it literally only cost me €50-€120 for 4 pads and 2 rotors. Runout can be caused by a lot of stuff, like a bearing, and so forth. You're actually required to pull the rotor outy and chuck it to measure runout, but hey, wtf do I know as a machinist!

[@creativeinnovations5720]

Great information. Have you ever used an oncar brake lathe? ProCut brake lathes has been addressing this issue for 35 years. Cleaning up the stack tolerances from hubs, bearings, and rotors. Small car hubs distort from overtightened lug nuts(the tech that installs wheels with an impact). Problem solved in 5-8 minutes per hub/rotor.

[@guy7670]

Bingo! You are correct Sir. But nobody uses them).

[@ncooty]

It's nice when the boss is really into the technical stuff and quality outputs, not just cracking a whip for production. Also, I like that he goes his own way with that hairdo. :) Seems like a pretty cool guy and a good business owner.

[@garyt7830]

Nice that you were Honest to Customer,, and admit your mistake ,, Since you have the Run Out tool,, it be smart to check on all brake jobs

[@pontiacsrule8761]

What a great video. Excellent camera work & explanations. I like how you mentioned it was our mistake. I haven't sent a rotor out to be cut in years. They are cheap enough & too thin to cut these days. I thought for sure it was the new rotor. Some of the really cheap ones come warped out of the box. Look forward to more videos, great job!!!

[@DependableAutoTruck]

@pontiacsrule8761 be careful how you use warped several on here say that a rotor cannot warp

[@rty1955]

Although the content was informative, the presentation was a little amateurish. I would suggest investing in a macro lens to get those really close up shots, and use voice overs instead of actual audio, speed up the micrometer testing part as well. Once you demonstrate how to apply the micrometer, we don't need to watch you test every point. Camera needs to be very close to what you are trying to demonstrate and only a macro lens can get you that close. Remember the majority of people will use thier cell phone to view this, not an 80" display that they can move close to, so they cam see the details. Animation would have been much better, but I understand that this is not always an option.. My background is an Emmy award video editor, for 50 yrs, so i hope my comment is taken as positive.

[@DependableAutoTruck]

most you tubers are good at what they do they are not video editors i personally think most of them spend to much time editing i would rather see as it happened not modified@@rty1955

[@winwin2369]

I stop watching scotty kilmer ever since he's started reviewing cars (his customers 😅). He points his camera all over the place and i get dust dizzy watching. This is good imho

[@reteipegal7690]

​​@@rty1955Video editor for 50 years? Really Videos? Am I getting thát old?

[@billysplinterbillysplinter7348]

Very envious of the car owners who are lucky enough to be in your area.

[@StamatakosTom5791]

100% Truth!

[@elgroso806]

I see a couple of things you should have done before to start the check. Firstly you should have installed the 4 nut, not 2, in the opposite way, the cone side away from the disc and tighten them up to specifications. Now, you will get a more accurate reading...

[@ronaldmoncay8793]

Since the hub is the problem putting all the nuts in would not make much difference...

[@jrbarden80]

I just replaced my rear rotors for the 3rd time in 3 years last night. I'm not a hard driver, but couldn't find a reasonable explanation for it either. This is great. Thank you for the video.

[@ChazzTech101]

That's what I'm talking about! A real technician.... I appreciate your realism....

[@HouseCallAutoRepair]

As a mobile mechanic, this is my chosen main focus. Every surface that is machined, is inspected, cleaned, and if appropriate, a moisture barrier applied. I'm a Rust Belt mechanic... attention to detail really matters!

[@brucetec6597]

More power to you. As a mechanic myself, I hate rust. Especially when it gets in your eyes. I'm in Florida, so I don't have to deal with it that much.

[@sasquatchrosefarts]

​@@brucetec6597Florida I almost as bad if you live near the beach. Endless electrical issues.

[@jd1029]

As a former brake engineer, I can tell you with near certainty that brake "roughness" is nearly 100% caused by rotor THICKNESS variation, the difference in runout between inner and outer brake plate.of the rotor. You would have to measure the inner and outer rotor surface in phase of each other to get this measurement. Some vehicles are sensitive to 20 microns of thickness variation, which is 0.0008 inches, and hard to capture on a dial indicator. When you have brake roughness, replace the rotors and brake pads, and it will go away - for a while anyway.

[@josephklimchock5412]

Right you are sir. As a 50 years auto, diesel, aircraft and industrial mechanic, the brake rotors made today are not made to be turned or trued. While we could do this a few times in the 70's on rotors, the rotors today are made to bare minimum to save weight. Sadly, one really hard braking can warp the rotors. I learned the hard way maybe 10 years ago when I had only 25K miles on new rotors on my E350 Super duty van, I had the rotors trued to get rid of pulsation, it worked for maybe 5K miles, but then I threw them out and bought new OEM Ford rotors. The other difference with rotors today is that they are made to almost any price point that you want, so yeah, much cheaper than in the 70's for the same size car, but they don't last anywhere near as long. It would cost over 100 bucks for Chevy rotor in the 70;s and hardly no aftermarket like today. Now if I could just get some tires for my van that are not crap right from the warehouse. Top of the line Michelins and 2 bad tires right at the start, the tire shop had to get 2 more to be able to balance, then we could not get the shimmy out after being on the van for only 2 weeks, switched them out with General Grabbers HTS 60 and while better, we also found now 3 tires now good. The Generals seem to balance out at first, but I think they are defective and getting "ply shifting" within a few days of usage. I'm sick of wasting time and the tire shop is working with me to resolve the issue, but as a old fart that expects a good product when new, this is 100% aggravating. I probably going to make them switch to another tire brand. What is going on with quality these days??? BTW, the van did not shimmy and rode perfectly smooth with 7 year old Michelins. They would still be on the van had they not dry rotted and one blew out.

[@Jglivermr2]

Don't waste your energy. As a mechanic I have been trying to explain this to people for over a decade, have shared the Carroll Smith article, and nothing seems to work. Trying to explain that their brake lathe is unusable because they've used the adapters and cones as press adapters and seal drivers is worse.

[@josephklimchock5412]

@@Jglivermr2 I know, I'll never have rotors machined ever again, in Florida by me, I think the only auto parts store that will do it O'Reilly's and I think it is used more to get people into the store, then tell them that their rotors cannot be turned due to being too thin or warped. Some local machine shops might still do it, but like I commented to the brake engineer guy, the cost of rotors is so cheap, heck buy the best ones you can get and it still is not that much. New pads, rotors, bearings., seals and I rebuild my calipers every other pad change. At 63, I trust only my self to replace my brakes.

[@Jglivermr2]

@@josephklimchock5412 I am the same. I mostly work on antique vehicles though, and sometimes have no choice but to turn rotors.

[@86753091974]

You are correct but...the runout leads to the thickness variation.

[@jeffreybeck1928]

Use 10,000s of an inch dial indicator, digital ones work. Slightly hand circular sand the outer ede surface of the hub to remove rust. You will get an accurate reading of the runout. If the hub is bent, you can use shims to fix the rotors, or you can place the rotors on and machine them on the car. Depending on how bad the rotor runout is, you can use shims to fix it. No need for a costly hub repair, but shims will be needed on every rotor change. Hint: You can make your own shims using the cheapest aliminum foil and a micrometer to offset the runout.

[@oscardeltoro898]

For the Nissan in question these hub/bearings are affordable under $100 complete per side. The shims is an IDEA however not a reliable one. Being that most cars nowadays dont come with a rotor fastener the rotor will loosen itself once the tire is off and being that many shops use impact guns, after a few tire rotations and installs those shims will crush and the problem will be back. Why do I say they will crush? because anything that wont crush has to be thick, thick will move the rotor outwards and will wear the outer pad more than the inner. -$100 will save you headaches in the future.

[@ocratitude]

Excellent video, and very thorough inspection. I have always done my own brakes and never inspected hubs or rotors for runout, I will be checking from now.

[@zefdin101]

Me too! Lol…. The more you learn, the more you realize that there is to learn…

[@rockysenatore9682]

Had a similar issue; brand new car, put on brand new, high-end wheels (Boyd Coddington)and tires. Saw crazy run-out at the wheel. Issue: new rims didn’t feature factory-style lug stud hole chamfering on the hub side. No problem, except we left the little retaining washer on the studs (holds the rotor in place on the assembly line). Amazing a little 0.020” washer could cause so much run-out!

[@richardtidd2738]

Excellent presentation by an experienced tech. I`ll bet that left wheel hit a curb at speed. Thank you.

[@waynegriffiths5143]

You bet, she kissed the kerb hard.

[@2-old-Forthischet]

That was very informative. I've never run across that particular problem. Usually the brakes would pulsate only when the rotors were hot and stop when they cooled down.

[@guy7670]

Same cause.

[@theawesomeguy9999]

This is why I am a huge advocate for on car brake lathes. Being completely honest there are many mechanics out there who don't even have the knowledge or time to do these checks, and cutting the rotor on the car will remove any runout whether its from the hub or the rotor no brainwork required. With good bits runout after cutting ends up around .0005" on the car normally. Not the best solution for a warped hub but I'd argue better than what many end up with, as long as the rotor is thick enough to reuse

[@jimsix9929]

I am glad you said that, if I do a brake job and still have a pulse time to mount the brake lathe, no matter if the hub is out or the rotor, it will be 0 runout and 0 thickness variation

[@A_Different_Kind_Of_Truth]

The ball bearings inside the "wheel bearing" of the hub are NOT within "the 2 micron (2 x 1/1000 mm) tolerance" hence the massive shift on the micrometer .. I came up against this before after "trial and error and many headscratches" .. who'd have thunk ? 😮 GREAT VIDEO.. WELL DONE !! For those who don't understand what's going on here, this isn't just mechanics, this is physics !!

[@michaeljohn7398]

Thank you for your honesty and integrity. You are the gold standard. Top job Mate. Cheers from Michael. Australia.

[@BigBrotherIsTooBig]

Good video. Glad you mentioned that runout will increase the further from center. When measuring the hub or rotor measure as far out as possible. I noticed you measured the rotor towards the center. In such an extreme case as this car it doesn't matter, but if someone is checking for a less severe problem, measuring in the center of the rotor could give a false negative.

[@jacobclark89]

I've never herd of a false negitive only false positive .🤨🤔

[@BigBrotherIsTooBig]

@@jacobclark89 A false negative is the opposite of a false positive. It's when you get a result that says negative, but the result is untrue.

[@billsmith2212]

Good information . Thanks . We had a local shop where the guy bragged " I can do front pads in 20 minutes " . Is ANYTHING cleaned and checked ?

[@theroyaltyautoservice]

People think we are way over the top with our brake jobs. It works though. No noises. No premature failure. Good performance. Why try to fix what’s not broken?

[@billsmith2212]

@@theroyaltyautoservice I only put premium pads and shoes on my vehicles . The labor is the same and they last longer . I wonder in a panic stop if the top quality parts will actually stop in a shorter distance ? It is worth the extra money .

[@Resistculturaldecline]

Speed is impressive if someone is digging a hole or stopping a plumbing leak, but I don't want to see speed when repairing or servicing a piece of machinery. I want to see thoroughness and mechanical cleanliness.

[@djmobileautoservices]

Solid video professor. Valuable lesson. We know the right thing to do but we are also running a business. Kinda of challenging to do for every vehicle. Most garage dont even have precision tools.

[@allimkhan7540]

It's very hard to find a honest mechanic Shop they made a mistake and they fixed the problem. A lot of Shops like to change parts with out proper diagnostics. Fantastic Video!

[@prpjumper8835]

It's very much appreciated. Where you could have just made the video of the in depth check, you actually state it was diagnosed to the most common fault right away. It just allowed me to actually correct a fault on a job I have. Thank you for the instructions, but much more for your honesty.

[@dustinadamson833]

Keep an eye out for rotor thickness from center venting to surface. I've been running into a bad batch lately where the center vent will wobble visibly when turned while the braking surface itself is perfect.

[@davebloggs]

I have seen more of this in the last few years as well.

[@krdcd]

Chinese steel and parts are wonderful thing aren't they. It's extremely difficult to find American-made parts with American-made materials.

[@fastinradfordable]

The center casting is irrelevant.

[@dustinadamson833]

@@fastinradfordable Untrue. The center casting, if uneven as I described, makes it so there are different thicknesses of metal between the center casting and braking surface. As a result the portions where the rotor thinner will heat up more quickly than the portions where the rotor is thicker. This will cause rotor imbalance and deformations which will cause vibrations that will be felt whether or not you are braking. More so when you are braking.

[@hirayaman246]

Before replaceing the hub, check the ballbearing inside the hub, as it might get worn and you can have deviation from it too......its very hard to warp that hub and its easier to worn out a ballbearing

[@guy7670]

Maybe a hub can be bent by hitting a curb?

[@hirayaman246]

@@guy7670 Truth, that too....but before the hub is bending, the ballbearing is blown to pieces.... In that unit ( hub- ballbearing) the weakest link is the ballbearing, which will give first. However there are cases where the hub comes bent from the factory or by beeing hit while driving

[@tomsparks3259]

A short extension for the plunger of your dial indicator would make it a bit easier to avoid the wheel studs. Yup, they make them, and they can be had cheap too.

[@adhdturtle37]

Or a test indicator

[@stevedejesus586]

Hey I just like the fact that you have admitted it. That you miss it the first & second time only up to your mistakes it’s the only way to keep your self honest and keep doing a good job for the customers could keep coming back. I the first to say yes it’s my fault if I did the job. Because at the end of the day you are the one who did the work. Any way I got to say thank you for the knowledge and your honesty keep it up. ✌🏽

[@sliderdriver1]

Hubs can get distorted by bumping up and down curbs, off roading, even getting hot by a dodgy sticking caliper. Replacing the disc is all we should check. Well done for showing this👍🏻

[@sstocker31]

Great content....teaching the young guys how to properly check for run-out

[@charlesbradford6738]

One other thing that could be: I had an 05 CRV with same symptoms and after several agonizing attempts to repair, it turned out to be a faulty ABS module. That's right, a leaky valve in the ABS module can feel just like a worn out rotor.

[@jondoe4667]

I had an abs module go bad and it made the whole truck shake when I hit the brakes.

[@johnchambers12]

You can replace the little tip on your indicator so the lug studs don’t hit , just get a longer tip and you will be happier

[@JorgeB-jf2pg]

I been having the same problem,everyone says u need rotors.jus did them again today if happens again guess what I’m changing? THE HUB😊 Only real men can admit when they made a mistake. Respect

[@ramonduran2516]

100% correct, in my shop we use the on car Pro-Cut brake lathe you should try it. Will perform the cut with tighter run-out tolerance really has helped us with vibration issues.

[@spencereagle1118]

It would be worth lifting the rotor off the hub, rotate the hub 90° and refit the rotor, then recheck, rotate another 90° and recheck and so on. Sometimes the run out can be 'lost' by doing this.

[@r.weaver3769]

20 years ago only one in five was true and parallel brand new from local parts slinger. Some times I'd get 15 rotors for one car before they were true. other tech would just turn new rotors but then they are considered used not new.

[@mph5896]

I remember those days. I would turn the new ones. And the really good ones were when they were too tall by a smidge and hit the top of the caliper. I threw a couple on the lathe and cut the edges like they were a drum.

[@r.weaver3769]

@@mph5896 Me too, or turn the hat because it rubbed the caliper bracket, but only if the rotor face was unusually true. LOL. The things we did to deliver top shelf work and prevent comebacks.

[@nicholasr7987]

Those were the tiawan twisties . Soon as they double disc ground, it solved out of the box issues, then proceeded to be runout issues that surface a few months after install.

[@apacheone3643]

The number one reason your hub is warp is due to NOT USING A TORQUE WRENCH ON THE LUG NUTS ! Check your guys when tightening down the wheels .

[@theroyaltyautoservice]

We hand torque every wheel. Lightly tighten, then hand torque. . Been doing that for over 20 years. We habe a video on TikToc on how we do it if you are interested

[@apacheone3643]

@theroyaltyautoservice I am a Master technician 47 years young . I have had this issue from customers from other repair facilities that just use an impact gun, which is a very bad combination with alloy rims . If you are using a torque wrench, then to be sure, I would have the torque wrench recalibrated. Another reason is if you use a deep socket or an extension that changes the torque to .

[@ZeGermanHam]

Thanks for this video! We've owned a vehicle for over 10 years (purchased used) that has always had a slight vibration under braking despite having multiple sets of rotors on it. I bet it's one of the hubs.

[@jesusacovarrubias1390]

It’s been a year since this posting, but this is my first time viewing this work. Good on you for owning up to the problem.

[@vpkb]

We had similar issues on our Subaru Ascend, but it would only vibrate on heavy braking, coming down the mountains.

[@lindelanimicahtshienda4195]

Was it also the hub ?

[@mph5896]

Why was it released to the customer the first time like that. Didn't the after the job test drive and break in reveal a vibration?

[@LongDefiant]

Exactly, this is the channel that is so big on seating the brake pads.

[@TheMudkipzGames]

idk if you’ve ever had pulsating brakes before but it usually is only prominent at higher speeds, and they probably want to give the customer as much brake life as possible without high speed testing.