Why Rugby League Coaches are Dominating Union | Rugby Pod with Northampton Saints' Lee Radford

Lee Radford, the Hull Rugby League Legend who has revolutionised Northampton Saints Defence since joining this season joins Jim and Goodey this week.
They discuss why so many rugby league converts are excelling in the 15 man code, turning around Saints defensive weaknesses and some pretty dodgy nicknames...
If you enjoyed the interview, why not check out the full podcast where the lads chat Owen Farrell's French future, Rugby Predictions for 2024 and England dropping the RPA as their player representation.
Listen to the Full Podcast on Spotify 🎧 spoti.fi/3vrp37J
0:00 League or Union?
6:40 Why Northampton?
8:40 Coaching the Tackle Height
14:47 Blowing UP!
21:25 Rugby League Group Chat

[@EnglishVeteran]

Great chat! Really good listening to the RL boys. 👍🏻👍🏻

[@kianallan]

Been incredible the change he’s made for us this season. Hopefully our form continues and we can win a trophy this year

[@RicONeill1964]

I went to one of the big private “rugby schools” in England, played junior rep and first XV for a current Premiership club, before going overseas at 19. I began watching the ARL (now NRL) and Origin early 90s (Golden Era) and it struck me that I was looking at the best rugby footballers I’d seen, in terms of running, passing, kicking and defence (tackling). I went on to play amateur RL regional rep. Having seen Faz the Younger kick countless numerical advantages away, the first thing he’d need to do is learn to count. In fact, every English union player would benefit based on what I’ve seen. Little Faz would also get his clock cleaned first time he got squirrely. Junior coaching in England used to consist mainly of picking the biggest and telling the kids what not to do; apparently that culture is still prevalent bc not much has changed about English rugby since i came up and what I see today.

[@whatme50]

"Little Faz" played league for 6 or 7 years before he turned to union.

[@gunner4life568]

I agree RL players are on another level I as a south African only got to know about it in 2019 and since then I have been hooked

[@davidpeters3857]

I’m also an ex pro athlete….what a pompous 🛎 end ( public school athletes were always second rate )

[@clemfandango619]

And yet England is still easily the most successful NH country.

[@bblokeaussie3236]

Gday fellas Off to the DHL stadium to see Sale play, tonight. Aussie bloke and a Scottish bird...Great weather, can't wait.

[@TomboBrewster]

The job he's done is amazing, and is real proof of the influence of good coaching. From the worst defence in the league to one of the best.

[@johnhanson5943]

I would enjoy a northern England versus southern England game. I might enjoy more than any other game - so long as we are allowed to play RL players too.

[@joedennehy386]

Very few league players make it in Rugby. Benji Marshall, Roger TS. Etc. Farrell, Brad Thorne, and Sbw notable exceptions, Sam Burgess?

[@emayteetee6232]

@@joedennehy386you just named more that did than didn’t. There are so many that have ‘made it’ depending on your definition. Some very average league players have played international rugby union. Enter Joseph Tomane for the Wallabies for one. Mat Rogers, Wendell Sailor, Israel Folau, Lote Tuquiri, Marika Korebeite are another handful of Aussies that spring to mind immediately as ones to who made it to the very very top. Semi Radradra is a star for Fiji - came from League. Jason Robinson another who was top top class. England selected Lesley Vainikolo and Henry Paul, even Steven Myler had a long premiership career. Lee Smith and Kyle Eastmond transitioned and played Premiership rugby as another pair. Likewise Joel Tomkins. I could go on. But I’m bored. Your theory is a tad flawed and short sighted I’d say given I can reel those off with no research required.

[@thereader6667]

@@joedennehy386 Shontayne Hape, Henry Paul, ,Chris Ashton, Danny Care, Jason Robinson. Those are just the ones off top of my head, shall I I continue?

[@stephenford5839]

Talk of OF to Wigan has been rumoured for years. Personally I think he would make a great ball playing 13 i.e. loose forward. His defence and fitness would be issues he would have to significantly improve.

[@RicONeill1964]

Yes. He’d also have to learn to count off because the number of times I’ve seen him dump a numerical advantage is shocking, either throwing the wrong skip pass or kicking it away. That seems to be a thing in English union. Last year I saw England make 10m with an 8 on 4 before going into touch.

[@clemfandango619]

How many RL coaches did the two teams who contested the World Cup Final have?

[@bobbytreetop1701]

Had a bad day hun 😢

[@clemfandango619]

@@bobbytreetop1701 yes, that must be it, no-one would have pointed out this inconvenient fact otherwise.

[@charlottewalsh1030]

Owen Farrell at. 20 in NRL,…. Definitely yes! 💯 Now …. Absolutely absurd!

[@indricotherium4802]

The more I watch rugby union the more it stands out that it's a game of many penalties and few free kicks. It would be better for the game and arguably more logical if the balance were the other way round.

[@thecuttingsark5094]

YES. 100%

[@TP1988]

But if (for example) it’s a free kick for killing the ball at breakdown instead of a penalty, then teams will kill the ball more because it’s less a deterrent. It’s all so interdependent. Same with the idea of keeping the maul as a strong weapon - if the maul is dangerous, then teams are wary of giving away a pen that leads to a maul via kick, so they take less risk to avoid pens so team with the ball have faster breakdowns so attack is better

[@indricotherium4802]

@@TP1988 : I happen to think that rucks and scrums, in particular, are over-refereed. Penalties must be awarded for 'clear/obvious/blatant/cynical' offences. But I do think the players train all week to do their best in these "mucky" situations and that 'marginal/picky/inconsistent/interpretative' refereeing decisions cause horrendous frustration. Most ruck infringements don't have an intrinsic 3pt penalty value, imo. Also, as the guest on this video said, a different kind of standard seems to apply to confrontation on the try line than elsewhere on the field. (There are several issues re playing for corner mauls, a different but also interesting subject).

[@somanytakennames]

⁠@@indricotherium4802 It doesn’t help that there are about 50 different things refs have to keep an eye on in every single ruck and make split second decisions on. It has to be acknowledged that it is an incredibly difficult sport to ref. I do like the idea of not everything being a penalty offence though. What offences would you categorise as a penalty or a free kick?

[@indricotherium4802]

@@somanytakennames as long as no blatant foul or dangerous play is evident, rucks should be allowed to play out as long as the players believe them still to be contestable If they don't resolve or end up in stalemate, the referee can award a free kick or a scrum As for perceived scrum infringements, the referee should be thinking first and foremost about free kicks, in preference to re-sets (a lot of people are getting fed up with three or four minutes ticking by to get through one scrum) and penalties Re-sets should only be allowed very sparingly, not routinely Penalties should only be awarded where there is a single identifiable culprit - confirmable by TMO Imo it is rarely the case that just one player in the scrum is clearly and obviously solely at fault

[@user-wt4xw4bv3u]

Andy didn’t have to talk for 90% of the time nice to hear two other voices for a change

[@thereader6667]

Rugby League is an attacking game. You only get 5 attempts to get a line-break/break defence so there is sense of urgency and the game is played at a higher pace, that is lacking in Union.

[@piet0004]

As an arm chair coach less time spent working on rucks , mauls , line outs scrums. More time to perfect running lines and as a result defending those running lines ?

[@davidpeters3857]

Goode is such a two faced 🛎 end

[@thegulagarchipelago5921]

How did Oz WC go???😅😅😅😅

[@mattmorgan4083]

John cena 😂

[@StanWilks]

His time is now.

[@SB-th8uc]

You want to know why more League coaches are coming to Union? It's quite simple, and that is economics. If you can get the best League coaches in assistant roles on higher pay packets than Head Coach roles in Super League, it follows that this is a viable career pathway. The rest is just peripheral.

[@thomastimms88]

With respect the best League coaches are in Australia. And Lee Radford was a middle of the road coach in Superleague. Get your facts straight.

[@davidfife-nm7uy]

Isn’t it funny that Andy scolds Eddie Jones for using League coaches but when others do it, it’s fine. Typical of this muppet

[@SB-th8uc]

@@thomastimms88 Some coaches don't want to go to Australia, or even stay in Rugby League. It's a goldfish bowl. Far more money and opportunities in Union. Please inform me of what 'facts' need straightening?

[@thomastimms88]

Theres far more of the banks money yes because most of the teams are going bust.

[@SB-th8uc]

@@thomastimms88 In England? There are still 16/17 fully professional sides. Wales - 4. Scotland - 2. Ireland - 4. South Africa - 4. NZ - 5. Australia - 4. France - 30+. Japan - 12. USA - 12. Many more opportunities, whether it is the banks money or not. We haven't even mentioned Sevens and the Olympics yet.

[@davidgormley7990]

Why is it necessary for these clowns to constantly harp on about Radford being a northerner?

[@joedennehy386]

South Africa and New Zealand coaches not from league

[@thomastimms88]

The whole modern game is best on Rugby League pal.

[@dazeng4633]

I'd ask if anything has got better? Really? High tackles Less space Fewer breathtaking trys. Less things to get you off your seat.

[@paulfrancis8764]

Farrell wouldn’t make second grade RL in Aus.

[@Excaspat55]

Good riddance to Radford. He wss useless at Castleford .

[@carpusbarsum]

I don't think even Rassie Erasmus could have done much with the Cas squad. You'll struggle again this year.

[@jule1934]

Rugby league defence coaching has gradually ruined our expansive rugby union game which has become a sport dominated by referee decisions on off-sides, deliberate knock-ons and dangerous tackles. League techniques do not work to expand the game when combined with union rules.

[@joswan4719]

Never seen Rugby League in my entire life living in South Africa. Wouldnt say they are taking anything over. Don’t see them winning any big tournaments.

[@thomastimms88]

It was banned that's why. The whole modern game is based on League, so the takeover has already happened bud.

[@billybones6137]

SA is probably the only major rugby nation to not have any real league influence.

[@thereader6667]

You have no concept of the origins of Rugby.

[@mikegray8776]

If you’ve never watched League, then you have no concept of where much of YOUR team’s fitness, fluidity, running lines and defensive organisation come from. Rassie and Jacques may not have any direct League background - but you can BET they watch the NRL (and maybe even Super League) pretty darned regularly.

[@JRPete]

IF YOU KNOW ABOUT FIFTY FIVE TWENTY TWO (55/22) THAN YOU JUST WITNESSED THE INFLUENCE OF RUGBY LEAGUE OR AS PETER V'YLANDYS CALLS IT "RUGBA LEAGUE".

[@Stephen-jx1hz]

They are not dominating anything. But is is true that the smarter the league coach, the higher the probability of switching to union.