Remastered Alchemist DEEP DIVE. “How to stop worrying and learn to love the bomb” (Pathfinder 2e)

[@TheRulesLawyerRPG]

ADDITIONS/ERRATA: -Medium armor proficiency was already an errata pre Remaster. (That's what I get for using a physical book!) -I don't think you need a versatile vial remaining to make a Quick Vial. -The bomber's "treat your versatile vial as Adamantine" ability can be used on any Consumable you make, including one of the bombs that does physical damage! (Also adamantine objects treat another "object" as having one-half its Hardness. PF2's rules on Hardness are a bit lacking, so I'd extend this to creatures as well.) -Toxicologist's feature helps against the many creatures with poison IMMUNITY. -Toxicologist's last feature lets them forego spraying poison on a 2nd creature. -Additive feats are now limited to once per round. -Combine Elixirs costs "+1 versatile vial more than usual" - since some subclasses allow you to create a Quick Vial elixir that doesn't cost a VV, the language was changed from a flat three to this. -The alchemist versatile vials cannot be replenished, but you can still make Quick Vial acid bombs at-will. MY SUMMARY OF THE BUFFS TO ALCHEMIST: -Big buff to Quick Alchemy: You have a pool (probably 6) that replenishes like Focus Points, AND you have at-will "quick vials" for decent acid bombs and a special ability from your research field -No longer starved for reagents, especially at low levels -Can reach master proficiency in your attacks -Medium armor proficiency (this, and Bestial Mutagen no longer penalizing AC, and merging of "mutagen-enhancing" feats make a fighting mutagen build more viable) -Improved features for subclasses -Items use your Class DC starting at Level 5 -Adding effects to your items via feats with the Additive treat no longer increase the effective level of the formula -Quick Bomber lets you use Quick Alchemy and throw bomb for 1 action -Feats to be MUCH better at removing negative conditions (I think every one in the game) -L17 permanently quickened to make your "quick vials"

[@Zedrinbot]

Worth noting, the medium armor was actually an errata from a while back. I think it was the first or second errata they received, back in 2020.

[@skyethemin4922]

Small...correction i think that you forgot to mention with advanced alchemy? The thing is that, while you do get more reagents at level 1, advanced alchemy no longer has the text saying "and make a batch of two of that item", meaning that, by level 2, you can make the same amount of items during daily prep as pre-remaster alchemist and by 3, you get outscaled by pre-remaster *only when it comes to infused reagents*. So, yes, at level 1 you have less starvation in terms of reagents, but on levels 2 and onward, that is not the case. Unless im completely misreading advanced alchemy which is also very much possible.

[@TheRealPalleh]

You seem to be confused by the fact that the vial is always a bomb/field vial. You don’t have to use an action to change it, such as the mutagen just drinking one, or the toxicologist applying it as a poison. You also don’t burn an action drawing it, since it is worn as part of your alchemist tools, and that means it is in easy access when doing actions that use it.

[@troyyrob]

@@TheRealPallehI think it’s because there are two/three functions to the feature. You have 2+ int mod versatile vials and can of course use those for either making a consumable that lasts for up to 10 min, throwing them as a bomb, or having the effect of your field vial. I think Ronald was focusing a lot on the Quick Alchemy use of creating a new Versatile Vial out of thin air as a Quick Vial (the at-will component of the ability) which still requires an action. So I think you’re right in the sense that a toxicologist for example could apply all 6 of their poisons to various arrows before a fight if they are converted to consumables (but they expire after 10 min), or could apply them in combat as an injury poison with 1 action before making their strikes etc. But if they run out of all of those uses of Versatile Vial and want to create a Quick Vial out of thin air, then Ronald is right and it would be an action to make one, then an action to apply it to a weapon, and then an action to strike.

[@legendarydigitize2523]

Did you mean additive trait not treat?

[@odex1076]

Toxicologist acid damage is interesting, but the bigger thing is that line, "your infused poisons can affect creatures immune to poison." Affect is way more than just doing damage. All of the debuffs that before you could never apply to Undead or construct styles of enemies now work against them.

[@piedpiper1185]

This. Even if it is just damage, the toxicologists biggest issue before was the number of creatures that are just outright immune to poison. This makes them much more viable across the board.

[@FhtagnCthulhu]

As a long suffering toxicologist player, this is the main change I wanted and I love it so much. I am so excited to play my toxicologist now!

[@TheRulesLawyerRPG]

Thanks! Added an errata in pinned comment.

[@9652769]

And poison-acid makes sense... The numbers of poison who are described as an acid...

[@connornewell9895]

Ahh yes! The poison! The poison for undead. The poison we made specifically to kill undead. Undead's poison.

[@thefez-cat]

Adamantine isn't for damage reduction or regeneration. Adamantine is for *hardness.* An adamantine weapon halves the hardness of a target -- perfect for throwing at constructs.

[@kylone1]

Or shields!

[@vehemetipolygoniae2197]

Adamantine only affects objects, constructs unfortunately are classified as creatures

[@pierreolivierlepage664]

@@vehemetipolygoniae2197 I'm pretty sure there is a construct in AV that is like resistant X to like everything except adamantine

[@empdisaster10]

@@vehemetipolygoniae2197 There are several creatures that have “All damage resistance except for adamantine” it’s supposed to get around that and is for targeting golem weaknesses as they have both hardness, which adamantine ignores half of an doesn’t trigger golem antimagic. And on top of it with the versatile vials being able to be changed energy damage to cold, fire, acid, and electricity you basically can directly target golem weakness and slow effects with them. You essentially get 4 vials per turn you can use to toss at enemies and explicitly trigger their weaknesses, which is honestly great and makes for a really neat multiclass alongside thaumaturge so you can bonus from that class’s exploit vulnerabilities and weakness targeting capabilities

[@michaelcharlton5972]

or walls, floors, doors, locked chests, etc. Neat increase to the possible utility of bombers.

[@louisst-amand9207]

«Not a lot of foes resist poison damage.» Every single undead: am i a joke to you?

[@MagicalMaster]

Yes.

[@luisgusta]

Honestly, they are. At least if you have anyone capable of casting Heal in your party, they quickly become a joke.

[@GuybrushTThreepwood]

​@@luisgustaheal and harm are terrible damage skills. The three action version being safe to use in your party, and even healing allies is nice, but unless you have multiple injured allies and multiple undead enemies, it's not great. Unless you're willing to spend 3 actions using 3 top level touch heals.

[@miraclemaker1418]

It's Xd8 damage with fortitude save. You don't get the +X*8 to the damage, it's SHITE

[@TheBearProphet]

@@luisgustaIf you are also the secondary healer of the party as an alchemist toxicologist, this is still a nice way to continue to provide value to your party though.

[@LastFootnote]

Alchemists actually already had medium armor proficiency as of an errata a while back.

[@TheRulesLawyerRPG]

Thanks! Added an errata in pinned comment. (I'd relied on my old physical book at some points)

[@RebelThenKing]

It's tough to keep up with all of the alchemist erratas. I actually think we'll see more right after the release of Player Core 2.

[@Kiaulen]

I've been so excited to see how Paizo handled the complex classes. So far they've been nothing but winners: - champions can freely pick their reaction, and use an Aura for targeting - oracles have cool options and are less confusing - alchemists are no longer broken, and are less confusing I'm really excited to try out a Chirurgeon now.

[@JacksonOwex]

I've seen a LOT of people at least mildly upset about the changes to the Oracle, me being one of them! They don't seem to have as much flavor as they did before, though I've also never been one to shy away from things that LOOK like negatives on paper!

[@FireTouched]

The toxicologist level one benefit is actually a huge buff, since there are realy many monsters immune to poison.

[@AlbertoNeurohr]

Yes, I was surprised when Rules Lawyer said there's few creatures that resist poison, when there's actually tons that are straight up immune. Massive buff, actually makes the subclass playable in all circumstances.

[@JacksonOwex]

@@AlbertoNeurohr Immunity is NOT resist though!

[@ZamuelNow]

The adamantine damage option is probably since some high level enemies are "resistant to all (except adamantine)". Similar to how some vampires are resistant to all physical except silver but don't actually have a silver weakness.

[@TheRulesLawyerRPG]

I recall monsters that are resistant to all physical damage except adamantine. And the bomb does not do physical damage. So I'm still confused.

[@dylanfa]

@@TheRulesLawyerRPG One benefit of "can count as another metal you're carrying" is that some clockwork things are weak to orichalcum. So your energy bombs could do extra damage to them if you had an orichalcum chunk, weapon, or armor on hand. But I dont' think anything is weak to adamantine.

[@VikCachat]

​@@TheRulesLawyerRPGI almost positive alchemists can cause slashing or piercing damage with bombs either direct or from splash.

[@erikclayton3155]

@@VikCachat With a quick check it seems most that do so are considered uncommon, but a number exist and some do bludgeoning as well. The ones I found were Junk Bomb, Water Bomb, Blood Bomb, Crystal Shards, Mud Bomb, Peshspine Grenade, Pressure Bomb, Twigjack Sack. Edit: Having skipped ahead, it seems the material types might be only for versatile vials which do not do physical damage ever.

[@9652769]

​@@TheRulesLawyerRPGsome bomb are doing physical damage.

[@K9QM3]

27:30 While the damage is indeed lower, the debuff on Giant Centipede Venom is a lot stronger IMO. Off-guard is a very common condition, while fatigued is much harder to inflict. More importantly, fatigued doesn't go away on its own: if they reach stage 2, they're gonna be fatigued even after the poison wears off.

[@XHobbiesPrime]

Finally an Alchemist guide. Everyone has been posting about everything BUT the Alchemist content I was interested in.

[@JacksonOwex]

I don't know if you're being sarcastic but I saw someone else complaining that he'd seen the MOST Alchemist guides. That's probably because a lot of people just started with the first class in the book and are going from there.

[@XHobbiesPrime]

@@JacksonOwex All the guides I saw before this one skipped over the parts I cared about. Yes Bombers are nice. I don't care about Bombers. This is the first one I saw that gave me what I was looking for.

[@Eddrian32]

"If don't like it, it hurts, and if you do it doesn't. Kind of like something else."

[@queenannsrevenge100]

😂 18:04

[@TheRulesLawyerRPG]

Trying to keep it moist!

[@ericcooke2661]

Adamantine damage adds an effect when attacking objects. "...They treat any object they hit as if they have half as much Hardness..." -Archieves of Nethys, Adamantine Weapons. Thus if you create a versitile vial from a quick vial, it can be more effective in destroying pesky doors.

[@Mr.Monacle]

Good catch, I wonder if that stacks with the Demolitionist Archetype's set explosive ability which let's you ignore hardness equal to your level, and if it does, how does it get calculated?

[@ericcooke2661]

@@Mr.Monacle If I was GM, I would say traits trumps feat in importance, so the adamantine effects would come before the feat's would come into effect.

[@cruzerion]

@@Mr.Monacle I'd assume it works the same as with resistance, where if you have two sources of the same resistance or two resistances that overlap for an affected attack (say resistance to slashing and to physical damage vs a longsword slash) you only apply the highest one. So whichever effect would ignore the most hardness vs the target is the one you use.

[@nicholasromero238]

The 10 min thing is actually a stealth buff for mutagenist. A lot of characters don't want the mutagen debuffs for an hour, but when you combine the fact that you get 2 vials every 10 minutes, your party will never need to buy skill items for out of combat stuff again, since you just give them the juice for the skill check and they have the good stuff when making the check, but lose the bad stuff when they don't need the skill boost

[@Stephen-kz7rg]

With regard to foes resisting poison, try playing a poisoner in a campaign with lots of undead enemies. This us a huge change

[@shawnmacfarland3828]

Appreciate the Mork Borg rule book over the shoulder next to The Rules Lawyer Spicy Novel™.

[@zeeeej]

That "spicy novel" is actually an RPG - Pasión de las Pasiones.

[@leetaeryeo5269]

The bomber subclass is so good that it's gonna make the Winged Warrior feat Bombing Run so cool. Just, unlimited bombing runs. It may not be strong, but it's damn flavourful. **Edit:** I'm pretty sure Combine Elixir is supposed to cost only two vials. That first bit reads like it's an RP description that's then followed by the rule implementation, which says you spend an additional vial (which I read as "in addition to the vial used to make the base elixir"). With the reduction from INT+Level reagents to just 4+INT, having it cost 3 vials seems a bit too prohibitive, imo.

[@TheRulesLawyerRPG]

Are you referring to Advanced Alchemy or Versatile Vials? 4+INT is from Advanced Alchemy I think it actually is meant to be read as "plus one" versatile vial, which (1) makes it consistent with how it previously worked and (2) makes it a flexible number so that it works with those subclasses who can actually make a Quick Alchemy elixir without spending a VV (chirurgeon and alchemist have a research-field option to make a Quick Vial elixir)

[@leetaeryeo5269]

⁠@@TheRulesLawyerRPGoops, got my number mixed up. 2+INT. That makes it even more solid in my mind that Combine Elixir should have a total cost of just 2 VV (1 for the base elixir and 1 for the added elixir), not counting the quick elixirs you mentioned. It would be nice to get an explicit clarification, though.

[@Morheet]

I think the adamantine special material might be for attacking objects since you can treat their hardness as half as much as usual. Bring your alchemist to breach a vault of goodies.

[@leetaeryeo5269]

@@Morheet that was my interpretation as well. It reminds me of the Corrosive weapon rune which deals acid damage to armor/shield on a crit which is then reduced by hardness. Cutting hardness in half could be useful on enemies that have Shield Block.

[@AlejandroMonteagudo]

Been playing tactical breach wizards and this reminded me of the breach glyph in that game

[@nactris]

Important notice for anyone wondering, check description of Alchemist's Tools, as VVs are held inside, it's a free action to draw and replace them using action that uses them. Meaning that subclass specific uses of VV cost one action only.

[@khloris.]

I probably never would have noticed this, so honestly thank you so much

[@Jasonwfd]

Thank you for blessing us with your presence, Megan

[@Brellic]

Alchemical gender therapy was available in PF1e. The items were called the "anderos salve" and "mulibrous tincture". Pretty easy to miss, and I only remember because an NPC in the War for the Crown adventure path, Dame Malphene Trant, was using mulibrous tincture and my group ended up taking her on as a cohort.

[@geraldstacy3658]

15:41 So RL Alchemy was literally about turning one thing into another. Many alchemists had the specific goal of turning lead into gold. So the Bomber Advanced Vials is actually quite thematic. Just imagine that they brew up a potion that happens to grow bits and flecks of the material in question. When the vial hits the target, the material gets splashed all over the target. it doesn't need to be an injury in and of itself, as the material is what is triggering the weakness. Kind of like a Vampire grabbing a silver cross.

[@ericcooke2661]

The quick alchemy seems like Paizo wanted them to have a Cantrip style attack

[@kurtisspeer3202]

As a bomber that was my biggest gripe with the class. You didn't get 'cantrips' until lvl 8. I didn't like having to rely on crossbows at lower levels.

[@Lucas-qp4ht]

18:08 more and more dry (humor) content... You're really living up to expectations here haha

[@Sokko325]

The 'contagious poison' from the remaster says you can forgo that effect so the scenario where there's just allies around the initial target isn't a problem.

[@kabobawsome]

I'm a little disappointed that the toxicologist is still getting a bit of the short end of the stick, but it's still WAY better than before, I really appreciate that.

[@jyoumon123]

26:10 the feature specifies the attacker who applied the poison can choose to forgo the effect of spraying the poison

[@JacksonOwex]

There seems to be a LOT of people having issues reading things! NoNat was complaining about one of the Barbarian feats(I forget which one exactly) costing so many actions and repeatedly said it would be better if it was only two actions, and the action IS only two actions!

[@TheRulesLawyerRPG]

Yes! It's in my errata now

[@TheRulesLawyerRPG]

@@JacksonOwex More like getting a few things out of a hundred wrong! It takes courage to talk about PF2 rules on the internet with the PF2 crowd!

[@AlexanderBaird]

16:44 I think for the adamantine vials it’s meant to overcome the hardness of objects more so than triggering weakness in enemies. The only issue is if they specify whether it’s treated as standard or high grade for the purpose of determining the bomb’s “hardness” which I didn’t see yet

[@PyroMancer2k]

I don't feel like the changes were a huge buff but rather mixed bag that was major shift in the class core mechanics which made some play styles better and others no longer viable. The reason for this is because perpetuals combines with additives allowed you to do a LOT more than you can now with versatile vials. Before perpetuals were very narrow but then got expanded in errata to allowed you to choose from a wide variety of items depending on your research path based on the item trait instead of very narrow list. This was a huge buff to the class that is now gone as you are stuck with a very narrow selection again. Even the bomber only gets to choose between a very narrow set of four elements. There were items that do mental, sonic, poison, alignment(now be spirit), positive/negative(Vitality/Void in RE), various physical damages, and etc. So you could pick what your perpetuals were based on what kind of damage you wanted to focus on. Given the new system having a ton of Vitality damaging bombs in a campaign with a ton of undead would likely be very helpful. With the VV system though you are stuck with 6 uses per combat which is like 3 rounds cause odds are you'll likely toss 2 each round. Then you are stuck back with the 4 elements. Also with Perpetuals there was feats to get item from other research schools which you can no longer do. So a non-bomber could get a damage type of their choice for unlimited uses. The other MAJOR debuff is in the quick vials and additive changes. It says that Additives can NOT be used for quick vials which really undermines the debuffer alchemist. Before since perpetuals were by natural lower level than your alchemist level it made all the additive feats great for them since you could keep throwing smoke bombs, debilitating bombs, sticky bombs, and so on. Because the main benefit came from their status effects. This is again another case of now we only get 6 uses. Toss two Debilitating bombs at enemy and give them Dazed and flat-footed if both hit. That means -2 AC against everyone in your party and when it attacks everyone is concealed so it has to roll a flat 5 DC to attack. Or if you didn't want to use the feat you get perpetual in lightning in a bottle which has a built in flat-foot effect and no Fort save which is also a damage type I forgot to mention above. In terms of how I feel it effects the various builds: Bomber DPS Style: Easier earlier game thanks to Quick Vials(QV). More restrictive mid/late game due to damage type limitation in new Field vials system. Slightly better damage due to VV/QV being same level instead of one tier behind and thus get 1D# more damage. Also get buff without need for feat by replacing splash with INT. When you gain perpetuals ability limited bombs was no longer an issue so I only consider the QV a buff for early game. Debuff Style: Now limited to 6 debuff per match. Doesn't matter if it's additives or your using specific items as you only got 6 since QV are just generic damage dealing items. Remove the additive not allowed in QV and it's mostly back to where it was assuming you were using Additives and not perpetuals with a specific effect. Chirurgeon: Major debuff. The field vials which are meant to replace perpetuals do healing instead of damage but they SUCK at that. A level 5 Elixer of Life which they could get perpetuals of at level 11 does 3d6+6 healing and +1 item bonus to poisons. While RE gets 3d6 at level 12 which is 6 less healing at 1 level later. The next tier though is even worst as post-RE at level 17 got 5d6+12 while RE is only 4d6 at level 18. Plus the perpetual let you pick TWO items with the Healing trait for unlimited use so you could have also picked up another item for more versatility. The level 5 Field discovery seems like it might be intended to off set this by why Temp HP? I hate Temp HP as they are just another thing to keep track of and it's only INT mod so just give it extra healing on that. Advance Vials I think is the only major improvement to this research Field. It makes it so if a character is below 1/2 HP they don't suffer the coagulant time delay. Meaning you aren't stuck with a small one time use (1-4)D6 heal as an ally is near death. Mutagenist: This research path never interested me so don't know it that well but the merging of some of the mutagens and way they work seems like an improvement. Toxicologist: Poisons are just another extra thing to keep track of in combat and slow things down so kinda passed on this one but I feel it suffers a similar fate as Chirurgeon. The Field Vials are very narrow compared to the perpetuals which could have picked any poison before and it's not even a poison as it only adds damage to initial effect but no long last poison to do damage over time. There is a nice plus with the RE for Toxicologist though in that it can now get around resist/immunity and deal acid damage instead. Give that poison was one of the most common thing monsters had resist/immunity to was another reason the research field felt underwhelming but I think with this it could really help it's damage output. I do think the Toxicologist action economy is lacking though as while it gets the ability to apply poison as a 1 action instead of 2 it still has to MAKE it. Odds are they are not going to be using the limited 8 dailies but instead using VV which need 1 action QA to be made into poison that is applied to weapon. Sure you could use the VV as is for a small #D6 extra damage based on your level instead of a real poison but mechanically that feels more like choosing a power attack since it's 2 actions for a strike that depending on the weapon might not be adding an equivalent damage dice. And it's less than most precision damage boost which simply come as part of the normal strike though limited to things like target being off-guard. Conclusion: The alchemist was a class that didn't hit it's stride until mid game when it got it's perpetuals and had plenty of reagents to work with so your bag was overflowing with craftables. The early levels though really required some careful planning with the limited resources you had. I do think the RE really helped the early game Alchemist but I fear it came at the expense of the mid and late game as a number of options are now closed off due to some of the items mentioned above. I really hope they errata it in the way they original did as perpetuals were original very narrow in function but as alchemist items increased they increased from a set list to items with traits. I hope the field Vials get expanded in a similar way.

[@curiouswind9196]

I get that the new advanced alchemy makes it more manageable and safer but I really preferred the old version. Having to manage items and choosing between crafting now vs at the moment was fun. But not having to learn the same recipe's next level was a good call.

[@ferrisffalcis]

bestial mutagen is now the bestie mutagen, pass it around to your wrestlers before kicking down a door to a dungeon

[@mattg2091]

I was so hopeful for a buff to the Toxicologist because I love the RP and flavor of it. I've played a lot of characters over the years and my toxicologist was hands-down my weakest class/subclass experience. The damage and consistency were laughably bad. The versatility factor, which I love in theory, simply doesn't come up that often in actual gameplay. This game is designed with so many paths to success that your party will virtually always be able to easily counter problems without you having to cook up a special elixir or throw a special bomb to trigger Weakness 5 once a round on a boss. But it feels like they really ratcheted up the unplayability of the Toxicologist. Nothing screams "fun" like gambling a full 3-action turn (plus a semi-limited resource) on a single poisoned 1h-weapon stab which, on the off-chance you ACTUALLY hit your target with your bad proficiency, will ultimately do like 15 extra damage. As you said, apparently other tables have been playing very different from the tables I've been at because poison has never made a single notable impact on the game. (See: Most-resisted damage type, extremely high action cost for low to mediocre damage, almost exclusively Fort saves which are typically high on meaningful enemies, high gold cost to even access your "versatility" options, etc.) On a more positive note, I LOVE the poison/acid damage buff and I LOVE the alchemical bomb proficiency improvement. Honestly, those changes were needed just to bring the class level with every other class imo. I also generally like what they've done with every other Alchemist subclass. Overall, nice changes... But I sure am real disappointed about the Toxicologist...

[@FhtagnCthulhu]

@@mattg2091 bypassing immunity is huge, since you can now at least (almost) always have a chance to use your abilities. That alone makes this more generally viable to me. The issue of still needing to hit and then beat a save which is almost always fort is baaad though. Ultimately we need better non-fort options and a better action enconomy. Even just a one-action apply poison and strike would be a boon.

[@hectorvivis3651]

Didn't have time to watch yet, but you need a bunch of upvotes just for this title. Very excited to see what they changed. Probably the most difficult stuff they had to rework for the remaster.

[@aliciaseelentanz]

Yaaaaay! Finally a full alchemist cover! XD I knew I could count on you!

[@shrootskyi815]

I quite like the changes, and I think they remove of a lot of the problems that the Alchemist suffered from. But I wish some of the new wording had been refined a bit, because there are some really confusing or convoluted parts, particularly in relation to versatile vials. Some examples: 1. Quick Alchemy creates a "versatile vial" that behaves differently to other versatile vials bit has the same name. 2. The research fields each have a "Field Vials" feature that gives them a new way to use their versatile vials. Other parts of the class refer to "the versatile vial option from your research field," which by process of elimination must be the option from Field Vial. IMO, it would much be clearer if the Field Vials feature was named as the place "the versatile vial option from your research field" is found. 3. By default, versatile vials deal acid damage and have the acid trait. However, the Toxicologist Field Vials feature makes their versatile vials deal poison damage and have the poison trait. However, the Toxicologist Field Benefit means that sometimes their vials will actually deal acid damage anyway, but keep the poison trait. This all feels like an unnecessarily complicated way of handling things. Honestly, I think part of the problem is that the word "vial" is spammed everywhere, which makes a lot of different things sound similar.

[@brianlane723]

From a third-party design perspective, alchemist remaster is huge.

[@DannyDark007]

Bonus points for the Dr Strangelove reference at the end. 🤓

[@kyros905]

From what I read on the text, when it says "you use a vial for X", there seems to be no need to Quick alchemy the vial, I believe they would have mentioned that if it was necessary. It seems a mutagenist can just drink vials with no Quick alchemy. The fantasy of this seems like if you think that vials are not always acid and can be reagents for other things even when not using Quick alchemy.

[@TheRulesLawyerRPG]

Sadly when you read the two parts together, from a RAW perspective I think it's pretty clear they're two discrete things that cost one action each. However, I think I'd house-rule it so that that creating a Quick Vial and using it is one action for the Mutagenist and Poisoner

[@kyros905]

​​@@TheRulesLawyerRPGlooking at it again, it says "You can drink the content of a vial". I believe if you had to Quick alchemy the vial, it would say "When you drink the content of an item created from your vials". They seem to be quite different situations because usually you cannot drink a vial, but I believe in this case it is saying that the mutagenist can. Also, later on they specify that the vial Loses the acid, bomb and splash traits, but if you had to Quick alchemy the vial into something drinkable, it would lose these traits already, and it also specifies that the vial looses the trais because of its usage, not because it became something else.

[@kyros905]

​​@@TheRulesLawyerRPGI'm sorry, I don't know if I misunderstood or if we're talking about different things. From the vídeo, I thought you were saying thay you always need to Quick alchemy before drinking the vial. I read all the text again, and Yes, you can do that to create a vial then drink it, but it seems you can also just use the vials you have on you already, if you have none, then you can also Quick alchemy a vial. Edit: at 24:23 you said the toxicologist needs to use two actions, one to Quick alchemy and the other to Apply the poison, but if you already have a vial, no Quick alchemy is needed.

[@sableeyedscholar2135]

​@@kyros905 if you look at the text at 5:24 and onwards it says that Versatile Vials can be "used for Quick Alchemy *and* your research field can add new ways to use the vials". Wouldn't this mean that the Mutagenist and Toxicologist field vials are not part of the Quick Alchemy feature? That would mean you wouldn't need to spend an action beforehand setting them up, the Quick Alchemy feature just lets you make an extra versatile vial for those features if you run out (at the cost of an obviously worse action economy).

[@rowanatone]

Your content is some of the most engaging on KZbin imo, I am continually impressed with how well spoken you are. Your layout is simple yet very effective. Excited for the alchemist, though a bit sad it seems like toxicologist (my second fave of the subclasses is a bit underwhelming). My favourite mutagenist has some fun tools though (eating good with that master proficiency!) Alchemical HRT is very cute, and brings a whole new meaning to "DIY" HRT :p.

[@maryclarence6429]

Very excited for the alchemist remaster. Also love the Dr. Strangelove reference.

[@Anarch_Bushey]

Adding special metals to acids is rad as fuck. I was concurrently performing heavy metals (acid) testing while listening to this 😂 Aqua Regis was traditionally used to melt silver and gold in the high mideval times

[@FhtagnCthulhu]

@@Anarch_Bushey aqua regia is still a go to when you need to dissolve noble metals. Silver dissolves in nitric better than in aqua regia though, because the chloride is insoluble.

[@TheLunarboy4]

I cannot wait to theorycraft weather it's better to build a witch with the cauldron feat and the alchemy dedication or an alchemist with the witch dedication and cauldron feat

[@EternalTotem]

Love to get videos like. While working it’s really nice to have someone who explains things in details.

[@Grifta]

Simplifying Additive trait is the biggest win for me. That turned a handful of feats in to a needless cost/benefit analysis every time.

[@Baelorthebard]

I think this is mentioned a little bit in the pinned comment, but from reading this I think the reason the versatile vile wording is used to describe both the versatile vile class feature is that the viles you have that last all day and the viles you can make with quick alchemy can be used the same way, either as slightly weaker acid bombs or for the special vile option you get in your research field. It's still worded weird though. New Alchemist is a huge improvement. Now we just need remasters for the Secrets of Magic, Guns & Gears and Dark Archive stuff, although realistically the only things that really need it are the archetypes they haven't already released errata for, like the Runelord.

[@AlastarTehMaster]

For the vials: this is amazing, this means that after each encounter, the alchemist can just use whatever leftover vials they have to give everyone some soothing tonics or elixirs of life. Really ups your recovery time.

[@xxcoolkid69xx67]

I'm so glad for these buffs, my chirurgeon player was having to put SO much work in to make his actions feel worth it.

[@Feralhyena]

WRT the Bomber's Advanced Vial Feature, Adamantine being an option is good because it debuffs Shield and Shield Block effects, although an effective Item Quality callout should have been included for ease of adjudication, much the way Clad in Metal limits the kind and quality of the metal you coat the item with based on the Rank of the Spell. I'd house rule that the quality level should be limited by the level of the Vial in question, thus at 11th, a Bomber's Versatile Vial should halve the Hardness of any object with a Hardness of 14 or less, while at 17th, the Bomb halves Hardness of less than 17.

[@Feralhyena]

Also: Injection Spears and Alchemical Crossbows exist, so applying Elixirs to unwilling targets isn't impossible outside of using Healing Bomb.

[@bryanstrahm9961]

This drastically buffed the class and then heavily nerfed the multiclass archetype. My level 6 PC just went from being able to make 12 items a day (eventually scaling to 20+) to only 8 per day, and if Ronald is correct the archetype doens't get access to the refreshing vials. I often took alchemist as a multiclass archetype due to the versatility provided, and the ability to stockpile cheap healing items each day, but this just nerfed that benefit quite a bit. Still happy to see the class get such a sweeping set of improvements though.

[@paperplanes101]

4 less items per day but those items can be a way higher level. Even if you stick with the lower level ones, there's the new feat that automatically scales the DCs. I'm hesitant to say it's nerfed, less items of higher quality seems like a tradeoff worth experimenting with.

[@spookymonster]

I''m not seeing where vials don't refresh for the archetype. Specific trumps general so the archetype gets 4 vials instead of the full class's 2 + Int mod, but that seems to be the only difference. Where is he getting that from?

[@TheRulesLawyerRPG]

I only realized later in the process that Quick Alchemy could make refreshable vials, so I don't know if a phrase slipped through implying they could only make 4 all day while recording that part

[@alarkhar]

Alter admixture is more useful than you'd think - IF you take into account that the alchemical stuff you prepare for the day, unlike versatile vials, has FULL length rather than a maximum of ten minutes. This means that if you have a cold resistance elixir and your level is high enough you can make a water breathing elixir... that lasts 24 hours. Using the versatile vial version would force you to constantly make new ones.

[@cruelcumber5317]

For the toxicologist greater field discovery it does mention that the attacker can choose to forgo the effect.

[@MrDUCKMAN5555]

Hope pazio can do another book like this down the line with the other classes. Some of them need some rework love to bring them up to current class standard. Can't wait to use godbreaker.

[@cheezeofages]

Your quick alchemy being vials of stuff rather than reagents helps with the flavor of that vials recharge. Instead of gathering components even when that might not make any sense you are instead getting mixtures ready. Sort of how spell prep is flavored in some systems as casting the spell up until the final activation incantation you are prepping some of the mixes so you can throw crap together quickly.

[@justmonica9253]

YES! This is nothing like what I thought new alchemist would be, yet it's somehow everything I want it to be. Less anxious choices, more spontaneity, reliable contributions- it's so good! Also as I read it combine elixir just straight up costs no more components than two separate elixirs do- that's insane. Incredible action economy on elixirs and it makes healing with elixirs rival cleric heals, but with a reduced range.

[@juanrapolinario]

I'm so happy with the new alchemist. Thank you for the video, RulesLawyer.

[@geraldstacy3658]

Depending on how the multiclass of this works with the investigator class, I may have to remaster a certain Venomtail Kobold of poisonous shenanigans... I do like the multiclass no longer requiring feats to progress adv. alchemy levels. Though having to wait till lv 12 to adjust the class DC's as a multiclass, and not being able to take advantage of the prisoner abilities might make it less than amazing.

[@BobHerzog1962]

There are entire groups of enemies immune to posion damage. Like i.e. undead, constructs etc.. Overall it makes the Toxicologist a bit more viable in campaigns that are heavy on certain enemy types.

[@grugspro]

"Quick Bomber" should be replaced with a feat called "Quick Application" that allows you to draw and use alchemical items in a single action. (i think its silly to begin with that most ancestories can run 50 feet in the time it takes to pull out an elixir and drink it)

[@marianpetera8436]

Alchemists have always had medium armor proficiency. Maybe you're confusing it with gators? 36:37 That's what Focus Cathartic and Sinew-Shock Serum were for. It's nice to have that as additive though. And the 2 original elixirs still have their uses, all is good :)

[@sirkittens5445]

Something I think could make a lot of sense for alchemists wanting to drink/apply their field vial benefit more quickly is to pick up a Retrieval Belt (which most alchemists will definitely want in any case) and use that to free-action draw a versatile vial and use it. They get the benefits of their field vials as a single action, but it uses up their per-encounter vials rather than getting to use the free quick vials from quick alchemy

[@GorgoPrimus]

26:00 It has the words "and can choose to forgo this effect" in it, so you don't need to houserule it to add a way to avoid hurting an ally. You can just choose to not spray your ally.

[@paperwatt]

These seem like great changes! If I'm understanding everything correctly, it makes it a lot easier to have those niche consumables made in combat for when they'll be useful. And making quick vials in a fight is super cool!

[@Patar15]

I still think Toxicologist should be able to attack in the same action they apply the injury poison on their weapon. There's archetypes that outshine the Toxicologist in this regard.

[@Seven-not-Six]

I have a question for the alchemists in general.. What's to stop someone from adding Versatile Vial's formula to your book and thus use it for advanced alchemy???? Or by taking Versatile Vial as a lvl 1 formula thus adding it to Advanced Alchemy... Thus increasing your total number of Versatile Vials at the expense of a formula slot while leveling. So, having 6 of your Advanced Alchemy items be Versatile Vials as well as having your "per day" max vial pool.??. Like, because what's to stop me from getting the Versatile Vial formula and crafting them during downtime??? Do non-alchemist have a cap on how many Versatile Vials they can create if the V.v's are a craftable item?? Appreciate any answers 🫠

[@Ezekieru]

Where does it say you need at least one versatile vial in order to create a versatile vial via Quick Alchemy? Quick Alchemy only requires you be wearing or holding your alchemist's toolkit.

[@ArcaneOverride]

Me upon seeing the video title: "ok Dr Strangelove, how good is it?"

[@lawrl777]

i think the main benefit of a toxicologist using a versatile vial as an injury poison is you get to inflict it with a blowgun or whatever and a range increment better than a bomb's 20ft, or with a melee weapon so you're not triggering Reactive Strikes, plus you can make infinite of these quick field vials so losing it on a miss is fine (which is already what happened with poisoned ranged weapons) but yeah creating, applying, and Striking with the injury poison as three separate actions feels weird, could use a clarification

[@sableeyedscholar2135]

if you look at the text at 5:24 and onwards it says that Versatile Vials can be "used for Quick Alchemy *and* your research field can add new ways to use the vials". Wouldn't this mean that the Mutagenist and Toxicologist field vials are not part of the Quick Alchemy feature? That would mean you wouldn't need to spend an action beforehand setting them up, the Quick Alchemy feature just lets you make an extra versatile vial for those features if you run out (at the cost of an obviously worse action economy).

[@trafalgarla]

Really love what they did with the alchemist! There's so many cool classes now that it's hard to choose which one to play!

[@hammerspace8866]

I think the lowering of the poison damage makes sense for the alchemist. SInce alchemests can really use alot more poison every round if they want to. I guess it also makes poison less lethal when used against players. Characters with a low fortitude save can die pretty easilly by failing or crit failing 1 or 2 saves against poison.

[@neevgranite1480]

10:21 I see you with that PF1 "Unchained" joke.

[@android19willpwn]

For the 2-action setup problems with the versatile vials, I think in normal play it would be just the opposite. You're going into a fight with six VVs. If you've got two actions to spare on a turn, you can first use quick alchemy to turn a VV into something stronger and more specific, then use it. However if you're tight on actions you can just use the vial directly without fist converting it with Quick Alchemy. It's going to be weaker than anything you could specifically turn it into, but it makes your action economy a little less strict. Once you're totally out of vials and need to quick alchemy to make one then yeah it's not so good, but that's just to make sure that even when you're out of resources you're not completely scuttled, like a caster having to rely on cantrips.

[@aneldritchdreamgames5925]

Adamantine as a damage type isnt usually a weakness but it does often overcome resistances, while physical (except adamantine) is somewhat pointless it would be futureproofed against the niche 'all damage (except adamantine) or if something did have adamantine weakness for some reason.

[@Kilian874]

Now i wonder what will it be for the Alchemist-like gunslinger "subclass": Munition Crafter. It gains advanced alchemy only to craft batches of bombs and alchemical ammunititions, and as now he can craft quite a lot of them (10 batches of 2 bombs/munitions at level 10). With the new rules it would become 4 batches of 2 items period, and that is a HUGE nerf, even given the possibility to craft items at your level. And considering that they are reworking a lot of alchemical items i wonder if in the new player core elemental ammunitions will see the activation action cost merged with the reload for firearm/crossbow users: 3 full actions for reload-activate the bullet-strike feels too action intensive, like the drinking of the field vials you mentioned. Obviously is nothing that cannot be homeruled safely, but an errata would make this more official.

[@christopherg2347]

16:10 Moonbeam: "The beam of light deals 2d6 fire damage. This is silver damage for the purposes of weaknesses, resistances, and the like." Combining energy and material damage is nothing new. You follow the usual pattern: Immunity first. Then weakness. Then resistance.

[@TheRealPalleh]

With the mutagen, you don’t NEED to spend an action to make it, you have your x/combat vials that you can use. You’d only have to make one of A) you are out of visls B) you don’t want to waste your vials. This is just a confusion created by the entire mechanic of creating a temporary version of an item, and not changing the name, since it functions the same but with a shorter duration.

[@TheAssaisa1]

Regarding adamantine, it halves hardness for most objects so this could make your vials better at breaking down doors or hazards

[@JohninMinecraft]

There are (or at least were pre-remaster) bombs that deal physical damage types (such as the nail bomb), the new level 11 feature would presumably make that damage ignore, say physical weakness with exceptions. This would be for when you use quick alchemy to make these bombs, with its first option, presumably.

[@PlatonicLiquid]

That Voluminous Vials feat for the archetype is really bad when you can just take Improvised Admixture at level 4 or Efficient Alchemy at level 8

[@heyfell4301]

I am just really happy that the Remastered Alchemist can finally live up to what I'd call their "subclass identity." Their main class goal is to be versatile, that hasn't changed and an Alchemist that can strike a good balance of all types of Alchemical Item to both contribute on their own AND help the party is definitely gonna have the best results. But before the Remaster, Alchemists that wanted to, say, be a Bomber who focuses entirely on spreading chaos with bombs, or Mutagenists who just wanted to become genetic abominations to rip and tear until it's done with Bestial Mutagens... these guys were not gonna feel good. Alchemists were FORCED to be versatile specifically because none of what they did was ever good enough to pull its weight. Worst of all, in combat you often felt like a glorified item dispenser, since no matter how good you were with bombs, mutagens or poisons, you were always better off just giving them to the other martials who could use them WAY better than you could. It's not just that they had both a ridiculously high skill floor and ceiling (which they absolutely did), it's that even if you were doing great as an Alchemist and REALLY contributing with your team, your role was really passive and it didn't really feel that good unless you were really into support playstyles. Now tho? Alchemists gained all potential for specialization without losing ANY versatility (with the wonderful addition of Versatile Vials, they arguably GAINED versatility). If you just wanna be a Chirurgeon who supports your team like before you're not only really good at that, but also you're now able to competently fight, meaning the "passive" support playstyle of the Alchemist kinda becomes a benefit since you can just hand over your useful potions to your allies and fight alongside them like a proper martial with maybe some bombs, mutagens or maybe just a crossbow. And if you wanna be an actual warrior of science? Now you can! Bombs are still just as strong but now YOU can throw them and spread chaos around, it's the flavor I always wanted for a character! Toxicologists being now able to deal acid damage is specially touching to me, since years ago in one of my first 2e games I was really hyped about a Toxicologist concept I had in mind and had to give up on when the GM informed me that this game was gonna revolve majorly around Constructs, I'd love to stick with this version of the subclass if it had existed a few years ago. But NOTHING beats how absolutely RAD the Mutagenist is, I always loved their concept and now they're here, killing machines on the battlefield combining powerful potions like Bestial+Juggernaut Mutagens with only half the side effects, but still crazy charismaniacs with their Silvertongue Mutagens that allows them to be so much more than just brutes, probably a class that is more capable than weaponizing their intellect than even Inventors and Investigators! I love that! Also, I'd like to add that I was really pleased to see the "Elixir of Gender Transformation," it's a bit silly how it kinda works exactly like HRT but I felt really seen by that. Immediately gave me ideas for something like a trans mutagenist who started out just to get the medicine they wanted but eventually created an obsession with "perfecting their body through alchemy" to become the peak of human existence. Definitely gonna use that on my next game. Overall, I LOVE the remastered Alchemist. The Remastered Oracle on the other hand......

[@ExterminatorElite]

30:20 Worth noting for alchemist archetypes for sure! With really limited versatile vials this will see daily use, and it is *definitely* the better alternative to the Voluminous Vials archetype feat. Great archetype pick for Alchemical Sciences Investigators as well.

[@adammasters684]

So double brew is an action economy boost rather than making your vials go further? As pretty much all your going to use it for are consumables. So if you have quick bomber it's doesn't do anything for you ?

[@SemkOld]

If you give the versatile vial adamantine through the advanced vial class feat, it avoids half the hardness of the object it’s striking. That said, it doesn’t tell us if it we should consider it standard or high grade adamantine and if it’s considered a thin item or item. I’d just imagine them as pellets in the vial and they fly out when it’s used.

[@lifirenk]

As a toxicologist I struggle to get into situations where my poisons would affect a target for more than 1 turn. Additionally I found many things Ron listed as new or a buff that already existed within the class before the remaster.

[@gustavotriqui]

There are slashing bombs like Junk bomb, (at least pre remaster), so adamantine comes into play against creatures with resistance to all physical damage except adamantine

[@slb797]

Question: Does the familiar Master Ability “Extra Reagents” still exist? If so, does it apply to daily prep items or to the Versatile Vials? Kinda doubting it applies to both Currently in a campaign as a Level 2 Alchemist Bomber. Going to miss the plan of having 30+ bombs. But I don’t think I am going to miss that plan too much. Loving it!

[@LeoJNidise]

18:04 you made me spit my coffee lmaooo

[@xerenas1593]

Dry Daddy Donny at it again

[@TheRulesLawyerRPG]

Why are so many people drinking beverages during my videos? People should have learned by now! =D

[@blueThumbnail]

​@@TheRulesLawyerRPGcontent so dry we need to hydrate to continue!

[@Stephen-kz7rg]

With regard to growing a head, there was an elixir that does that in the howl of the whild book. If the permenant elixir feat is still in two heads permanently is doable, although probably not a great strategy

[@derekbowen5820]

I've only gotten to the 3rd change and this is already better than what I expected.

[@bakyra4683]

Thanks for the info. It kinda murders how i was using the Alchemist archetype on my Summoner, to have some cool extras around for the party to use and throw.

[@danjal87nl]

They should've made voluminous vials to let you recover 1 vial every 10 minutes for the base, and then one additional for the second feat or something. Instead of a flat +1 for a whole feat.

[@blueThumbnail]

The alchemists are coming after our precious bodily fluids!

[@emptyptr9401]

I love most of these changes to this poi t, I am jist not a fan of the separation of encounter vs daily vails. The way it used to be just perfectly fit the flavor of an intelligent scientist. You are rewarded for planning ahead, but you also have the option to opt into some flexibility. More than that: You were asked to fine tune the amount of flexibility you need while trying to maximize the possible quantity. This makes it feel like you were an actual scientist. It was quite complex, but I'd argue that a class like the alchemist SHOULD be complex. And I think there would have been ways of making it more beginner friendly without sacrificing that unique aspect of the alchemist. By providing an optional rule that get rid of some of that flexibility for example in return for some boost that would benefit beginners specifically.

[@n.l.g.6401]

Having played a legacy alchemist through Age of Ashes, the problem wasn't so much the shared resource pool as it was the dang bookkeeping. It was like dealing with the annoying bits of both prepared and spontaneous casters at the same time, with the added frustration that you had to remember to hand your spell slots over to other party members, who in turn had to remember to use them before the end of the day. It felt less like being smart and more like bogging the game down with paperwork. A smaller semi-permanent pool prevents the paperwork game from getting out of hand, and the at-will brews make it so that you can go nuts with those start-of-the day items without sacrificing efficacy later. The paperwork game is still there if you want it and probably incredibly effective when played right; it's just optional now, instead of required.

[@emptyptr9401]

@@n.l.g.6401 Hmm. Thats a very good counterpoint. I still really like the legacy version on a conceptual level. Maybe I can think of a way of keeping what I (and others probably) like about it without requiring that level of annoying bookkeeping.

[@Vezrabuto]

the quick vials feel like cantrips, love it

[@soulcatcher521]

I'm not saying this to pester you, pronunciations change over time, I say this because I think it's interesting in and of itself. The chi in chirurgeon is pronounced like Cairo, based on the greek letter Chi. Another place this affects us is the Chimera pronounced Kai -mer -a, not shim-er-a. The rest of the word chirurgeon is pronounced like surgeon (cause it's the historical source of that word) so Kai - rur - g - on

[@goflux]

Not sure where the confusion is on Quick Alchemy. The very first sentence says "You can EITHER USE UP a versatile vial to make another alchemical consumable at a moment's notice OR CREATE an especially short-lived versatile vial.". The "quick vial" terminology is just shorthand to remind you that it is not a normal versatile vial and lasts for only your current turn (and thus cannot be used to rapidly refill your vial count). Seems pretty clear to me, but I tend to pick up rules pretty fast.

[@TheRulesLawyerRPG]

I just think it needs to say Option 2 creates a quick vial instead of a versatile vial, and the abilities that refer to it should say QV instead of VV

[@goflux]

@@TheRulesLawyerRPG That would probably improve readability.

[@oneringtorulethemagicarp7199]

I really think they just need to erata the quick vial to allow you to use it at the same time you make it. the only class who I can see spending 2 actions for their ability is the bomber and the chriurgeon, but the bomber doesn't even have to because quick bomb does this exact thing and chriurgeon would not be op thanks to coagulant

[@thrawn82]

16:30 i think mayberather than triggering weaknesses it is for the purposes of bypassing resistances. there are quite a few creatures that have high for the level resistances with the note "except dawnsilver, except adamantine, except cold iron, etc"

[@TheLunarboy4]

I wish the Chirugen had the option to Chuck a temporary hp elixer at will as opposed to only being able to heal once every 10 minutes (some exception apply).

[@zebeev]

If only they gave Numbing Tonics the Healing trait. 😑

[@lincr.1988]

I loved the changes but I don't get why Mutant Physique gives an Intimidation bonus... I mean Mutagenists need Str, Con, Int and Wis (cuz they suck at Will saves), Dex/Reflex is skippable cuz of Bulwark.. there's no room for Cha there 😵 Same goes for Mutant Innervation (Silvertongue Mutagen specifically).. a ranged Alchie doesn't have room for Charisma 😫

[@TheRealPalleh]

There are issues with the dedication as well. The rules for gaining versatile vials while exploring is CLEARLY stated under the text for "Versatile Vials" thus the mechanic that allows you to get them while exploring would be for anyone who has versatile vials. Furthermore they can still throw them, they can still craft an item, and they can still create one for free that lasts until the end of the turn. Also, you can't use Advanced Alchemy to create anything other than consumables, so the text on the dedication stating "4 alchemical consumables" is quite clear. This video is honestly so bad, I'm tempted to make a rebuttal video, just to make sure people aren't confused...

[@SorceressSoupcream]

One thing that's missing from that section is the Advanced Alchemy Benefits and Quick Alchemy Benefits paragraphs which apply to the herbalist, poisoner and alchemist multiclass archetypes (and similar ones that might come out in the future). It plainly states that you can't get versatile vials while exploring unless stated otherwise. Swingripper actually shows the text in his video about PC2 archetypes!

[@TheRealPalleh]

@@SorceressSoupcream It really would have been great to have that section here lol. I assumed that the reference page was directing to the alchemist section, not to another subsection in dedications. Should have noticed that alchemist reference was page 58 while the others were 174.