These cards are banned in Commander!?!?

[@jacobpalmer7538]

"Look, all I'm saying is putting invoke prejudice into my crab deck to make racist crabs would be objectively funny" end quote

[@SoftwareNeos]

Ive only seen your shorts... so seeing a comprehensive video like this with great points is just.... impressive

[@TheWingDings]

I've been waiting all my life to be told this🥺

[@the_snakelicious]

Best video about the bans that I've seen so far, great points.

[@keithmpire]

I apologize if you already knew this, but I think it's worth keeping in mind that the Rules Committee is outside of Wizards. WotC didn't make any of these decisions, I don't think they would prefer for any of these cards to be banned. But it's interesting to think that maybe they'll think twice before printing cards like Dockside or Jewel Lotus now knowing that the rules committee might ban them.

[@bohab787]

Scott Larabee is on TRC and he is the senior operations manager for mtg at wizards and is also in charge of tournament play. So yes, WOTC did in fact help make this decision.

[@keithmpire]

@@bohab787 Nice avatar

[@nightelfuser]

My dude, if you think WotC did not endorse these bans, I have a bridge to sell you. These cards are cash cows, there's no way the RC banned them without an explicit permission by WotC.

[@keithmpire]

@@nightelfuser All I was saying is that our ol' pal WingDings didn't sound like he knew there was a separation between WotC and the rules committee. If you wanna get into the tiny specifics, of course there is overlap. Nice avatar, by the way.

[@bohab787]

@@nightelfuser 100%

[@ZoraPup]

I think when it comes to a ban list fast mana is a fair line in the sand to draw. I know cedh is more then just free mana rocks but those things are typically what casual players hate seeing

[@MrRayRockstar]

Awsome take! Great video!

[@TheWingDings]

Thank ya! Love the pfp btw! Thrun FTW!

[@johnlachman5121]

I think the problem with banning Sol Ring is that it's in nearly every preconstructed deck. If Precons are designed to be grab and go decks, especially for new players, then why ban a card that's in all of them? Imagine a new player buying a deck that they're told is good to play out of the box, then they go downstairs to play a game of commander and players go "Yeah you can't play that card". Depending on how the interaction goes it could be embarrassing and frustrating, and it does not encourage them to further interact with the hobby

[@matthewjames7504]

I think this is the only reason it wasn't banned. Despite the RC saying that Sol Ring should be banned.

[@Cebion91]

sol ring is fast mana for sure... but a 1€ card in every precon ever so everyone can have a chance to play it

[@TheWingDings]

Definitely agree. If they DID ban Sol Ring there would be riots in the streets. Just not worth the headache 🤕

[@HDubwub]

great video man. hit the nail on the head o7

[@TheWingDings]

Thanks, it's what I do!!

[@jayf6206]

Am I just mad, or did I play a pod with you a couple weeks ago? The game store just off College? Arna Kennerüd, Skycaptain?

[@TheWingDings]

Definitely was NOT me. But I'm glad you're here anyway😌

[@jayf6206]

@TheWingDings No worries. Guy there looked fairly similar. To him: GG, G. To you, keep up the great content. Your short on the friend with no MtG accessories cut deep.

[@christopherjacobs843]

I'm happy they got banned. They were always showing up in casuals and unless you were willing to just cut people off over a card game(which isn't really realistic or reasonable), the players who owned them or proxied them would put them in everything.

[@nightelfuser]

Good for you. This is not about powerful cards that won't be legal anymore. This is about destroying costumer confidence in the product. These were used as chase cards to sell sealed product just a few months ago.

[@the_snakelicious]

@@nightelfuser Bans are part of the game, commander players are just way too spoiled.

[@nightelfuser]

@@the_snakelicious You can't compare a Meathook Massacre ban, with Mana Crypt Ban. The format has nothing to do with it. This was a premeditated action to wipe out value from the market, and no Fs were given. Let's see how long WotC survives after they have pissed off the whales. The casuals that they always have so much praise for, spend next to nothing on the game.

[@GhostlyGhost333]

I’m in the camp of don’t give a shit about the banlist. I never owned or played with any of these cards because they were too damn expensive. Still had fun playing commander though. I’m also unfazed by the banlist because Yugioh makes these types of banlists every other list. I’ve gotten used to it.

[@thestephanoturtleygo]

TBF Yugioh's banlists are due to the state of the format. Due to the fact that were all use the same card pool. Of course Asia and the rest of the world are using different formats, but even then, we utilize the same cards in the regions we have access to. In Yugioh, our banlists having only 4 bans and nothing else doesn't really matter much, we've had a situation like this back in April where we banned a fee cards and still had to suffer through a Tier 0 format for 4 more months. Rn we are still dealing with the se top. Decks cause even the most recent one didn't do shit. MTG's are way more effective on curb stomping cards and the power level of decks

[@martaneon5310]

Perfect video 💯

[@TheWingDings]

YOU'RE perfect!

[@BlahajBouncer]

The bans are good... Said as someone who doesn't have any of them lol. I was surprised you didn't run them but that is pretty cool, you were ahead of the curve 👍

[@tc5589-1]

These changes are overall good imo. Dockside I think is debatably necessary. I found in casual commander it was more of a reversal opportunity for losing players than the card that the winning player needed to actually win.

[@ReeceDS]

This is the BEST (only) video i've seen on this topic

[@ericstevens5009]

Well said Love yer down to earth views. Spot on analysis. Thank you for helping to ground the community before these kids lose their minds.🎉

[@swordbro2676]

As an Invoke Prejudice fan, I'd enjoy having it back even if I think the reason for its ban should just be that it's stupidly strong. I'd run that in my Mono Blue Urza in a heartbeat if it were unbanned.

[@TheWingDings]

I definitely think they can just change the name, and unban it with little to no pushback

[@JoshBagwell]

counter point to your "no banlist" comment. Me and my friends all agree that no card should be banned, BUT, we also all agree that you will have to leave to go to your car afterwards 👊

[@TheWingDings]

HAHA I like that you can do it once, but only once😂

[@Areyouohkay]

So if I play a casual edh game I have to refer to a ban list what sense does that make….i don’t have to do the same thing for modern

[@WorldofSoupS]

A cedh rc was inevitable so i hope this is whats needed to kickstart that change. I think there are cool cards worth unbanning to see how they play in high power tables.

[@theycallmelittletoe]

It’s time for, secret lair: the final four, a print to demand $10 regular, $20 foil

[@dataghost2307]

Remember ugly Sonic!

[@hiygamer]

I know this will never happen but I think a lot of Commander's problems with power levels and to some extent bannings could be solved or at least improved by a system akin to Canadian Highlander's point system, where powerful cards are assigned a point value and either decks have a point cap they can't exceed, or you match decks of similar point values against each other. Instead of every deck being a 7, you would have an objective metric to use. For example, my deck is a 12 because of the fast mana and combo pieces I'm running.

[@disbarredg0]

I feel like with the way the community has been lately, this was always going to be a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation. The RC is lambasted for doing nothing, yet when it does something suddenly people are coming out of the woodwork crying foul. Had the RC maintained the status quo tho, it's just as likely that there would've been outrage in the opposite direction all the same. I definitely think there's a larger problem of unrest right now that, until it's resolved, means we're kinda just gonna be stuck in these outrage loops.

[@georgeplymale8644]

U should be more famous ur a cool dude

[@IamXSublime]

Bro slipped that “sfiffy” comment in 😂

[@Eveniswrong]

I play with proxies. I save up $1-5k. I buy one deck with that money after I’ve tested that deck to the moon. Then I can determine whether or not I want to keep the cards.

[@jaystapes3086]

I play way more YGO than MTG but I do have a fun cloning commander deck that ran both Jeweled and Mana crypt (full art) and I saw these cards getting banned a mile away. They were real good and If YGO has taught me anything its that cards that are powerful and overplayed get banned..Especially if they were just in a product and the company already made money.

[@TheMaz878]

So where are we when it comes to land destruction

[@Eveniswrong]

I would love a CEDH format without bans at all. It gives us so many ridiculous things.

[@theycallmelittletoe]

There are a few cards that should remain banned in cEDH… time vault absolutely runs commander no ban list

[@TalamarAmV]

Wizards didn't ban these was the edhrc they are an entity outside hasbro/wotc

[@imnotsarcastic4085]

i feel bad cus yea i already saw like 4 yt shorts abt the ban list before this vid came out. you're the only one who made me laugh tho :D Pretty good take btw 👍casual ftw

[@SoftwareNeos]

What is casual EDH? Genuine question. I cant see how we have so many resources to make decks better, Players run more and more removal and interaction, and most people are trying to win... i dont know how we can say "Most Casuals" like this applies. I actually think most people arent actually casuals. Most people just cant define what Casual is and its just a buzzword for a decade in Commander

[@Kantharr]

To me casual edh is players playing suboptimal decks that were not built to finish the game very quickly (4-5 turns) but to have fun with others. I have quite a few casual edh decks that I built around themes but I also have have some decks that could possibly be on par with cedh decks.

[@pietrorasputin52]

I actually, honestly, 100% feel that there should never be a ban list for ANY GAME, EVER.....no matter the game. This includes all CCG's and TCG's in my book. I feel you should let the players play what they want to play, what they've spent their money on and they have come prepared to play. It's as simple as that in my opinion. I'm working on putting the final touches on a game I'm making and hoping to release to crowd funding soon. But I can promise anyone who reads this and sees that game - I will see to it that ban lists never happen in that game. They're such joy kill.

[@krispymagicgames3711]

That's why I proxy

[@PressXtoDoubt]

Yes slay queen based, All Mana positive rocks, generic tutors and RL cards should be banned. Commander is and always was casual.

[@Cebion91]

lesson: Dont design cards for commander and prob. dont buy 100€+ strong cards or you will be sad soon

[@antoniarayoserrano9632]

Casuals MindSets (mana crypt expensive, BAD) Precon Nekron Foil (cool) both are expensive products..... o_o

[@illusivespecter8124]

Minority? Nah almost every casual player i have ever ran into think they know what to ban better which basically boils down to if its out of reach for me financially or is mana ramp outside of rituals and green kill it and i love the part where you go "so what about sol ring" and the instant reply oh that's fine its in like every deck....yea cause its cheap as fck so i assume we would be fine with mana crpyt under the same conditions. Oh no thats different cycle continues

[@PhantomDro]

A stiffy 🔥🔥🔥

[@rukithetiger]

They say "we dont care about cedh" then ban cards who does not is played in casual... :/

[@tc5589-1]

They’re absolutely played in casual. The problem in casual is that they aren’t universal to every deck. Of all those cards were 10 cent commons they wouldn’t need a ban. Like sol ring.

[@succubussinbussin]

cEDH doesn't try to rule zero in unbans, it defeats the purpose of "playing the best in the card pool". The banlist is disastrous, it murders so many decks like Kenrith, Sisay, and Korvold since Dockside isn't a viable wincon anymore.

[@tajsdiscord5952]

Git gud. Time to use your imagination instead of copy pasting the best decks in the format. Hopefully demonic consultation is next

[@succubussinbussin]

@tajsdiscord5952 Three things. First, I didn't play any of the listed decks above. I don't really care that Dockside, Crypt and Lotus are gone from my Blue Farm cedh deck. Does it hurt the deck? Yeah, but it hurt every deck that was running them. Second, cedh isn't about trying to be unique, like I said, it's literally about building the best possible decks and playing to the best of your ability. There are more decks than just the top 3, but all of them are pushing to be in the same stature as the top. I pointed out how the Dockside ban kills decks like Korvold and Sisay, because banning Dockside took away options for cedh players to play with. Having less options to begin with diminishes the ability to play different decks. Third, and last off, WHO CARES? If you're playing cedh, odds are your deck is primarily going to be sharing cards with other cedh lists. Again, the point is to play the best of the best, so sitting here and saying "you're not being creative" is undermining the point of A METAGAME. People are constantly refining their lists around a metagame, and THAT is the point where creativity comes in, just it's different than this "my shit pile of bulk rares is so quirky omgz I'm so unique" hipster bullshit you're talking about, the creativity of cedh is learning how the variety of decks and options contribute to trends and a metagame. If the best cards get banned, other cards become the best available options. There will always be a metagame, and banning options from the rip like Dockside is a self-cannibalizing Ouroboros to this format. Kindly shut the fuck up when you clearly don't show any interest in cedh or why these bans matter for cedh. Telling someone to "be creative" isn't a dunk on cedh players, it makes you look like an obnoxious hipster.

[@themightybill1797]

I really dont understand the sol ring hate, its just weird.

[@carlosferronato9418]

These card's are not banned 🚫🚫🚫

[@parasite2262]

AND Thank God it's gone bro I swear to ja the meta hasn't changed in years it's time to stop I started in 2016 The meta started 2011 It's 2024 yall had 13 Years of the same deckbuilding YEARS 13 wotc and magic where salty yall didnt wanna change you told them to quit crying about it so when yall went infinite they had it on a watch list for years I remeber hearing about it back in 2019 yall act like it wasn't said and only used these two or three cards to pop off so when they do something about it you all cry now How does if feel when the shoes on the other foot evolve and ban more or it's just monotonous have to go search for this card for 9 of the same card based at 200 Dollars for my competitive decks or use proxies which is a no go we seen it with black lotus NOW THAT TOURNAMENTS ARE BACK WITH A PRIZE POOL ON THE LINE IS 50K A TOURNEY AND THESE ARE THE MOST PROXIED CARD(S) no duh they banned I hope they ban more honestly good on them for real get a grip we've seen all of this before There are 27000+ Why are u saying these 4 are it they look into completive decks and stamp every card played u thing they don't take notes every trip yall slow

[@domicci4460]

Super happy about these bannes hope thos is next

[@menlockeverquester2303]

Glad I sold my Jeweled Lotus when I did

[@domicci4460]

Same literally sold mine Friday

[@Kantharr]

I agree with the bans, but the way the RC handled the bans was poorly done. Also death threats and harassing people are NEVER okay. The people on the RC are humans just like you so they are prone to making mistakes, and they are not doing these bans to make a quick buck or are out to get you. Show some empathy, give constructive criticism on why you don't like the ban, and move on. Also you can also talk with your pod about allowing you to play the banned cards since you spent a lot of money on them. My pod allows them as long as you say you have them ahead of time.

[@shenryu]

The only thing that bothers me is the reasoning about the bans without adding any of the other problematic fast turns or wins, like thoracle, dark ritual, or jeska's will for a few examples.

[@shenryu]

To be fare I'm not super against the bans but fare is fare I also think that the free counterspells should go too nothing feels worse in casual than waiting forever for your chance everyone being tapped out for your favorite card only to be hosed by a free counterspell.

[@vivianvicious]

@@shenryu you cant even compare dark rit to any of these cards. its a one time 2 mana extra in black only.

[@Kahadi]

While you do have a point about "fair is fair", I can't say I agree with your examples as being necessary to ban. First off comes price. Mana Crypt, Dockside, and Jeweled Lotus are all really expensive cards, and not the easiest to get. Jeweled Lotus has 7 printings, with the cheapest, according to Scryfall, being $39.45. Dockside has 6 printings, with the cheapest being $25.30. While Mana Crypt has 19 printings, it's still the most expensive of the three, the cheapest being $75.63. compare those to Dark Ritual, with 51 printings and going as low as $1.41. Jeska's Will only has 5 printings, but still bottoms out at $18.30. Thoracle has 7 printings and bottoms out at $19.01. Jeska's and Thoracle are by no means cheap, but they're noticeably cheaper than the three that were banned. Now, this obviously doesn't include Nadu, which goes as cheap as Dark Ritual. But there are more factors as well. Thoracle gives a very fast win, sure... But not on its own. It requires some setup. No, that's not necessarily hard to manage, there are several options and ways to search for them, but it means your entire deck needs to be built around the combo. Thoracle doesn't fit into just about any deck with Blue. Mana Crypt and Jeweled Lotus fit into just about any deck, and Dockside fits into any deck with Red. Nadu is a little harder to fit into "any deck", being two colours, but being a viable Commander makes him far more reliable when the deck is built around him, and he works with almost anything. You don't really need to worry about setting up a specific combo for Nadu to hit hard. Dark Ritual and Jeska's Will do both fit into any deck with their colours, and they are powerful, yes. But they're also more restricted and limited. Dark Ritual gives you 2 extra mana a single time without something else letting you cast it again. That's powerful, but it doesn't win you a game on its own, you need something to spend that mana on and it's very easily countered. Jeska's Will is powerful, but its usage varies. If you can get it out on the first turn, it's a guaranteed 7 mana. But after that first turn, it becomes less reliable. Still powerful, of course, just... Less so. And like Dark Ritual, one use and it's gone. It doesn't win on its own, it just gives mana for you to cast something else that might win for you. Mana Crypt and Jeweled Lotus, meanwhile, are far more reliable. Mana Crypt is a reliable 2 mana every turn, and Jeweled Lotus can be kept on the field for a few turns until you need it. They're also free to cast, making them great early game even if they are all you have in your hand. Dockside is a little less reliable, being a one time ETB on its own that hopes your opponents have artifacts and enchantments, but it's all opponents combined, not a single opponent, and creature recursion is a lot easier than instant or sorcery recursion. Not to mention the fact that it gives Treasure tokens, which means you can wait for a later turn to use the mana he gives you, it doesn't need to be then and there. Nadu, meanwhile, is a viable Commander. That's the most reliable you can get in the format, outside of a few niche decks. And since he works with any creatures, it's very, very easy to just have him go for a long time. Targeting anything, even himself, gives you a free card, either as a draw or an additional land drop, making it easy to get out more creatures and target more things to repeat the cycle. So yes, Thoracle, Dark Ritual, and Jeska's Will are powerful cards. And they can be problematic. As can cards like Sol Ring. But they aren't so powerful that everyone is using them or banning them with a rule 0 anyway. As for free counterspells, that's really starting to push it. No, it's not fun getting your stuff countered. But it's something you need to account for. It's just part of the game. Playing around control effects is a matter of skill, and not everyone is using them. Playing around the stuff that's just been banned was starting to become a problem even in cEDH, making most games look the same no matter what.

[@jproductions7469]

The way Josh Lee Kwai talks about dockside is right by how he talks about it Jeskas will. If jeskas will gets banned I will riot

[@jproductions7469]

@@vivianviciousI play cEDH. Dark Rit is a stupid busted magic card. Don’t talk about things you don’t know

[@The_Grimsun]

Sure I am fine with the bans if they come back and ban Sol ring. Sorry but the argument makes no sense without Sol Ring banned. Sol ring is a much more problematic card than mana crypt or jeweled lotus. We all make our decks with the intent to get advantages and win, the only reason this ban is being received fine is because the cards cost a lot. Ban sol ring. It costs nothing, its ultimately just 1 card in everyone's deck that makes the entire decklist of commander homogenized, but guarantee people and WOTC would lose their minds. And to the ban list comment, sure unban the racist cards. Why do I care? I am not racist, even if I did play them in a deck I wouldnt be like cracking a whip and cackling as I played them, its a card game. If we unban everything for a "unbanned format" why not, people can play the land that bounces commanders, then people play land destruction, who cares. The point of no bans would be to play a game without some arbitrary rule committee determining what they feel is bad, without ever being consistent or having good reasoning. That being said if we are banning everything that turns a game into archenemy, ban rhystic, ban smothering tithe, ban winter orb, etc. But they wont. Because they know it would kill the format.

[@c.w.s9569]

these bans are just the first step. The will get replaced by the next best thing and it will just become a cycle. when will the bans stop? this is a huge blow and could fracture the format even worse than that CEDH RC fiasco not a week earlier.

[@roccoheat8662]

They need to ban sol ring having done mana crypt

[@The_Grimsun]

@@c.w.s9569 well at least they aren't encouraging adding in a whole bunch of previously banned cards in 2 months, because that would just be crazy.

[@DarkRavedgeHollow]

people also forget that there are other mana rocks like manalith, fireminds vessel, gilded lotus, timeless lotus, sol ring, the signets, talismans, keystones etc.

[@MagicHurdlez]

I only play casual and it’s never bothered me

[@pizzaguy2754]

Just another way you CASUALS ruin edh. Complaining about cards because they're "overpowered" when the reality is you're bad at the game and just can't afford them, so you kill the format for the rest of us SMH!

[@robertmendez8383]

Who are they to tell us all to play slower games. I like fast games and i like fast mana. F slow games, F cry babies that called for this ban, and F the RC.

[@ZenTeT]

These bannings make zero sense

[@mellowyellow5427]

You use a lot of big words the completely wrong way

[@gabrielarana3964]

As a brand new player to the entirety of MTG, these bans are great. My precon just got upgraded by downgrading everyone else's deck😂

[@RNGesus7]

L

[@anhvu6824]

Finaly someone explain it from a casual side. Sometime we do see these cards in casual. My friend opened a jewled lotus from our command master draft and 100% bro is putting it in his commander deck.

[@RNGesus7]

rule zero exists just tell him not to use it or proxy your own dont ruin it for the people who like fast high power games

[@jproductions7469]

Nadu and Golos sitting on this list for no reason

[@jacobpalmer7538]

"Look, all I'm saying is putting invoke prejudice into my crab deck to make racist crabs would be objectively funny" end quote

[@TheWingDings]

HAHAHAHA you can rule 0 that in my pod ANYTIME😂