Theseus is a Bottom Tier Hero-OSPod Animatic

[@GhostBear3067]

All the bad stuff for Theseus starts after the fight with the Minotaur, so I think the Minotaur got several good hits in and post-fight Theseus is suffering from brain damage.

[@AegixDrakan]

That would explain a LOT. XD

[@Mazou-tj4ne]

Headcanon accepted

[@shadowldrago]

I will say, if anyone ever tells you something akin to "We can be Theseus and Ariadne", that's either a yellow flag becuase they don't remember how that ends, or a BRIGHT red flag because they're planning on ditching you.

[@fandemusique4693]

Or they're expecting the world to screw the relationship depending of other versions, since there's stories where either Dionysos or Athena order Theseus to leave Ariadne on Naxos, or one where Ariadne being stranded is an accident and Theseus only manage to return after a pregnant Ariadne die before giving birth, causing a grief striken Theseus to give some money for the local to have a statue and/or cult built in her honor.

[@shadowldrago]

@@fandemusique4693 True. But, either way, it'll probably end poorly.

[@PurpleQuestions]

@@shadowldrago best I’m hoping for is “we can be like Atalanta and Meleager” or maybe Odysseus and Penelope

[@shadowldrago]

@@PurpleQuestions Given that the latter two spent decades apart, probably the first.

[@alannatherson7721]

@@shadowldrago They spent decades apart but Odysseus spent that whole time doing everything he can defying the will of kings and gods alike to return to her.

[@omershaik6374]

I didn't read the "tier hero" at first and i came here expecting red to prove theseus is a bottom

[@leeshajoi]

That's not OSP's style, but I'm sure someone somewhere is making that argument.

[@matthewmccoyd2578]

He probably is in Hades

[@sabikikasuko6636]

RIGHT?! I WAS SO CONFUSED AT FIRST XDDD

[@gremlinbox5655]

This is my headcanon now.

[@giraffedragon6110]

My beef with Jason is entirely because of the tragedy of Medea. I understand that he wanted to be a king, as was his birthright his Uncle Pelius stole by usurping the throne. But thinking he was going to get away with betraying his wife while his patron goddess was HERA, was entirely his own fault. Theseus by comparison for a while was only malicious towards those that meant him harm (the 3-5 encounters he had to Athens), killed the Minotaur (an unquestionably good act as it was causing the death of innocent civilians of another Polis)…. Then for some reason he DITCHED Ariadne, forgot to change the sail colors (which caused his father to throw himself off a cliff in grief, thinking his son was dead), ruled for a time, the nonsense with Pirithos happens, he gets back out, marries Hypollita, has a kid, hypolita dies, his second wife convinces Theseus that his CHILD made a pass at her (when SHE was the one who did it egged on by Aphrodite), and Theseus doesn’t even consider talking to his child, just sucks Poseidon on him. TLDR: Theseus is nowhere near as clever or as wise as Athens WANTS you to think.

[@danielquinlan2457]

I dunno about Jason being dumber. He never thought it was a good idea to sneak intuitive the Underworld and kidnap Persephone

[@HyattHyatt3179]

Fair, but he did think it was a great idea to ditch his OP not really mortal witch wife/GF who had been the brains behind the entire operation to that point. To pretty much have her chased out of the country when she didn't like that he was hooking up with a young cute princess and expected her to just be fine with him doing that and reaping all the reward when he barely did anything. Oh and she killed her own father for his sake. So yeah Jason was really really dumb and malicious considering how he was fine killing a bunch of people or ditching them when he didn't need them. If we're just talking dumb dumb there's probably Orpheus who did the one thing he wasn't supposed to do. Or Agamemnon who had the power to p*ss of all of his greatest soldiers and his wife in record time.

[@johnmartin4119]

I always saw Jason as more actively malicious given his motives are power and revenge and he has no problem killing or betraying people to get what he wants. But yeah Theseus is definitely like Gaston where he is an arrogant Chad but to be fair most of the time he is actively manipulated or tricked by others or it’s clear he doesn’t think anything through and it often blows up in his face almost hilariously. But honestly no matter what the interpretation is, I will say that for me he’s one of my favorites, not because he’s the most moral because that would probably be Perseus, but Theseus is definitely a story that serves as a fascinating cautionary tale of those who fight monsters and how sometimes being desperate to prove yourself great can lead to horrible tragedy

[@timothycarney9652]

Jason actually goes off and does other heroic things, OSP skips over it but the Argonauts had adventures on the way to the Fleece, and I don't remember Jason ever TELLING Medea to use murder to solve their problems (side note, its kind of hilarious that Jason couldn't become king after returning with the fleece because the evil king just said no, and then tricking his kids into killing him disqualifies him somehow, THIS GUY KILLED ALL OF JASON'S RELATIVES WHO IS DECIDING THAT JASON ISN'T QUALIFIED AFTER THEY GOT RID OF THIS GUY?) Jason really doesn't do anything heroic himself though. His greatest achievement was owning the boat that hosted the greek version of the avengers, every heroic feat he did was with godly help. Perseus is kind of the same (they NEEDED to have him fight a monster and save the princess becaus his main quest had him get 3 different godly magic items and then murder medusa in her sleep) but Jason 100% only achieved anything because Hera gave him a easy moral test and then rigged everything in his favor until he lost that favor.

[@MonochromaticPrism]

@@timothycarney9652 Honestly, he's almost the Platonic ideal of a hero from the perspective of the Greek gods. Someone just barely competent enough that they can do what you want of them if you back them up, but they also immediately fall on their face when they inevitably do something to lose your favor, which ends with them looking really dumb and you looking all the more wise and powerful.

[@yamiyomizuki]

​@@timothycarney9652 theseus also had a great many adventures that osp never even mentioned on his way to Athens. however while he had more solo feats to his name than Jason he also chose to be a complete dirtbag more or less of his own volition multiple times with no particular mitigating factors. Jason did 1 really scummy thing which was ditching Media, and even then while I don't agree with it I do have to acknowledge that by Greek standards she had done a lot of very taboo things already that might turn someone off to her.

[@yamiyomizuki]

​@@MonochromaticPrism you seem to be getting your understanding of the Greek gods entirely from percy Jackson. the gods don't generally want anything from heroes, quite the opposite in fact usually need help from the gods and only succeed because of it. the only exception I can think of is that the gods needed a mortal hero to assist them in the gigantomachy, and they got heracles because he technically counted. even then heracles also got his fair share of divine assistance just like any other hero. the gods also don't want heroes to fall on their face at the end, again quite the opposite, the gods want people to behave morally at least by Greek standards, and punish people who don't. again heracles is again heracles is the closest thing to an exception because Hera hated him from the time of his conception.

[@timothycarney9652]

@@MonochromaticPrism I fail to see how anything Jason did made any god look good, he is a good patsy if they wanted the Argonauts to be a thing, but the whole Fleece thing was a shaggy dog story- two evil kings and Jason doesn't deal with either of them, and somehow killing the one that murdered all of Jason's family gets him and Medea exiled? Jason just lived long enough for people to realize he WASN'T much of a hero, just an entitled errand boy. Though once again, the whole situation with the King who wanted the fleece is just odd.

[@DramaJosh03]

Cool to know Supergiant Games was accurate with their depiction then haha

[@NayrAnur]

Yeah, I consider his arrogance and his relationship with Asterius endearing.

[@phonybeautrain6520]

Yeah and especially How he react to Ariadne thread...seems like he never owned up to that.

[@PurpleQuestions]

For the record! I think Jason is worse than Theseus too but I respect Red’s reasoning. Also the Beauty and the Beast comparison works even better if you think of Pirithous as Lefou

[@johnmartin4119]

Honestly I think Theseus is the LeFou in that dynamic lol. Given that Pirithous is not only the one who’s idea it was to go after daughters of Zeus, but it was his idea to then storm Hades castle to get Persephone, since “she’s a beautiful goddess that makes her the best and don’t I deserve the best?”

[@Double_D__]

Personally, I think they're equal in being villains, but I hate Jason more because if he had had two brain cells more than he had, all his dumbassery could have been avoided, and he has the situational awareness of a Disney Princess surgically implanted into the story of Cocaine Bear.

[@fanofaction2364]

One of my all time favorite KZbin comments

[@griffen34]

Theseus kidnapped a 12 year old girl and planned to keep her and assault her. What the hell is wrong with you?

[@iiiiitsmagreta1240]

@@griffen34 He *_W H A_*- ...oh. *OH.* _Right._ i... forgot abt that...

[@ACatwithNoHat]

Phedra is the ultimate Disney Reinassence Villain Cheating, lier, trickster with loving and power interests.... and a mom.

[@jeremy1860]

Well, if nothing else, at least they can take solace in not being as bad as Zeus ^^;

[@mobgabriel1767]

i mean zeus has eternity to do bad stuff, so he is worse in comparison but i'd say that if theseus was immortal he probably would be as bad if not worse

[@SolstaceWinters]

That end card. Red's just a little guy! I love it. And knowing her, she's living the gremlin energy.

[@justincrocker1643]

Theseus is a malicious goof sure. But Jason is much worse.

[@phonybeautrain6520]

To be fair Greek Heroes weren't known for their braincells.... Hell even Odysseus the smartest hero in greek mythology by a large margin got into his Odyssey because he couldn't stop himself from gloating to the cyclop who clearly divine parentage!

[@PantheWarrior-Bear]

Love these, can't wait to see more 😊

[@gelusvenn5063]

I always laugh when people try to go for the "The minotaur was just misunderstood" angle when the minotaur's only traits are "Born from the curse of a god" and "Eats people". Like... Bit of a stretch broblerone. I usually just assume anyone who says it is a furry, because as someone who has DMed D&D games for some of them, they tend to automatically assume that animal-heads are correct and everyone else is bad. Which is hilariously fun to run the consequences of, much like any other bigoted perspective. The gradual 'wait are we evil'? reveal is kind of amazing, and even if the people it's revealed to never introspect and learn, their shitty jerks gradually getting run down and ganked by legitimate heroes and lawmen is still fun.

[@mobgabriel1767]

Frankly i wished people played more with the whole minoan collapse thing when envolving the minotaur

[@christopherwall2121]

Not to mention Theseus got one of his buddies imprisoned in the underworld while still alive.

[@ultimantwarrior5005]

I like how in your end card, Red is so short compared to everyone else! ❤😄

[@luigiboi4244]

Mudkip

[@Camstone0646]

OMG I AGREE THESEUS GODDAMN SUCKS

[@titanuranus3095]

So Gaston is also a bottom?

[@jamesverner9132]

Wait did that chick have hoof hands!?! 0:38

[@PurpleQuestions]

@@jamesverner9132 😂 not intentionally, that’s just how I draw hands sometimes, but Ariadne and the Minotaur are half siblings so it would be on brand