The Word Evangelical Is Dead

When a word comes to mean everything, it actually means nothing.
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Here's a link to the video about Evangelicalism with Dr. Mark Noll: • What is an Evangelical...

[@laserwolf65]

Agnostic here. When I hear "Evangelical," I always assumed it meant a type of Christian who says "if you say the sinner's prayer, you're saved." It conjures up images of alter calls, enthusiastic preaching (maybe yelling), a lot of disdain for Catholicism and "works," but also very concerned with personal conduct. While I'm cognizant that it's an umbrella term, I must confess that my first reaction to the term also makes me think of televangelists and prosperity gospel people. Not saying this to be judgmental; just wanted to add to the part of the video where you talked about asking the community what the words means to them. Hope that was helpful.

[@calebking8268]

It is really helpful to hear your impressions! Thanks so much for sharing

[@FrKevinDaugherty]

I can understand where you get that impression since much of Christian media since the 1960s reflects those approaches, but historical Evangelicalism was something very different. It is very difficult to see a connection between John Wesley and Joel Osteen, for example. It makes me think that perhaps the term "evangelical" is completely useless now.

[@josueinhan8436]

Very helpful, bro! Thank you so much.

[@eileenmurphy2019]

Laserwolf65 that has been my thoughts as well, however I have never felt a sense of negativity toward the beliefs of others. That having been said, recently retired to small rural southern town I was totally dismayed during the last election. Evangelical churches putting up billboards insisting that Biden was going to murder late term babies; Trump stumpers, in their 20s, coming maskless to my door during this pandemic, to cry about the same. When I explained that I was pro life, but to me that meant from the womb to the tomb they didn't know what to say. Finally asked, if I couldn't cast a vote for Trump would I consider not voting at all. Not good ambassadors for the word Evangelical.

[@marcusappelberg369]

As a labor supporting, leftist Christian I've always wondered why so many Christians in the US are super conservative. Many are into the Qanon cult now.

[@Oldman-eu1ir]

“That word you keep using, I do not think it means what you think it means” Great Princess Bride reference

[@kenworster2282]

I find as I get older and more reflective I describe my faith less with labels and more with the Bible's description of what I am (a sinner saved by grace, fully dependent on God for my salvation) and what I am tasked to do (love God with all my heart, soul and strength, and travel to every corner of the Earth and preach the Good News to every living creature).

[@ForHisGlorywithCamille]

Yes!!

[@chellobalgar9552]

This is good, as one person said labels destroy conversations. Id rather say words with less than 4 syallables where children can understand me than speak large empty words and be seen as intelligent

[@Lorrainecats]

Couldn't agree more. As I've aged, I have become more focused on my relationship with God.

[@dustindarabaris48]

"Disneyfied Christianity" is an uncomfortably accurate and disturbing term

[@gustavoabreu3097]

In Brazil evangelical is every other Christian church that isn't catholic or orthodox.

[@nobodygh]

So in Brazil Evangelical==Protestant

[@vincenzorutigliano5435]

Same in spanish speaking countries

[@costakeith9048]

That is the traditional, post-reformation definition: Protestant and Evangelical were effectively synonyms back in the 16th and 17th centuries...usually with the Catholics referring to them as Protestants and them referring to themselves as Evangelicals. In the English-speaking world the definition would eventually be refined to refer specifically to the Free Churches, largely because the Anglican church never regarded itself as Protestant and, thus, didn't use the term Evangelical with respect to itself, restricting the term to refer to non-Anglican, non-Roman churches (which, in England, were the Free Churches).

[@voidsabre_]

That's just Protestant

[@josueinhan8436]

But I sense a change happening here also. There are some people here - a few, off course - that are not very interesting anymore in recognizing themselves as "evangélicos". Some - including me - are preferring to be called only by Christian's. The evangelicalism here, specially neo-pentecostalism, is becaming quite desapointing. This is why some people are preferring to be called Christians and many are identifying themselves with Reformed Theology. - some Brazilian curiosities is that there are here some pastors defining themselves as "Reformed Pentecostals", just as Walter McAlister, an american-brazilian pastor. I dont know if these kind of theology mixing happens in your countries, just tell me here below, pls. 👍

[@bevfast865]

I appreciated this conversation, and agree that words change, culture changes, it's easy to get caught up in it all and miss the foundation which is simple. Love God and love people.

[@TylerWall]

Isn't that why the Creed's exist? An anchor in history that allows you to identify what you believe?

[@fallenphikl7192]

One of the things that I have noticed over here in the UK is that a lot of churches seem to be dropping the recitation of the creeds from their services, which I find quite frustrating.

[@TylerWall]

@@fallenphikl7192 We recently (last 5 years) have dove headlong into the creeds and we love it. So rich and what an amazing anchor to and distillation of the truth in the Bible that we can measure our beliefs by. Even more recently we became Anglican, not because we were looking to but because when we read a book called "The Anglican Way" and we realized we were Anglican. Quote from the start of the book "Maybe you grew up in some other denomination and you want to know how to connect to this one. Maybe you are an Evangelical who wants to make sure we're Bible-based. Perhaps you're charismatic and want to know that the Holy Spirit is here. If you are a Catholic, you may want to make sure we take the sacraments seriously. This book will help you explore those questions." It is this merging of the best parts of the Evangelical's love for the Bible and its accurate application, the charismatic's love of the Holy Spirit and the gifts he brings, and the reverence and deep meaning in the sacraments and historical church that made us realize we are Anglican.

[@billmartin3561]

EXACTLY!!!!!!!!

[@Maine-Life]

@@fallenphikl7192 Try a Divine Liturgy at an Orthodox church. It will never be dropped there.

[@Maine-Life]

@@TylerWall I'm going to welcome the future you to Orthodoxy, because that is the past you are on. I really suggest attending a Divine Liturgy at a parish near you.

[@windpeoples]

Watching this two and a half years later. A sincere search for the truth eventually finds the truth.

[@corycoogan2868]

This is how I have understood evangelical to be used by many: “a broad Christian cultural movement with its historical and theological roots in low-church, American protestantism, which is expressed through distinctly modern cultural elements, such as contemporary worship music, functional church architecture, and casual congregational dress.” This definition is focused on cultural, rather than theological distinctives, which I think it’s the version of evangelical that so many people identify with, which creates the rub with the evolution of the word-the feeling that word change means one’s culture is disappearing.

[@Pandaemoni]

As a latter-day antidisestablishmentarianist, I will never allow that word to die no matter how old and irrelevant it gets.

[@AskAScreenwriter]

Great video! A lot of thoughts popped up for me, too. In no particular order: - A great book about the core tenets of Christianity common to most denominations is C.S. Lewis' "Mere Christianity." I highly recommend it (along with just about everything else by Lewis!). He brings up a very similar point about the word 'Gentleman' which originally had nothing to do with being cultured, well-mannered, polite, or all of the things we thing of today; A 'Gentleman' was someone who owned land, that was it. - Often times, the meanings of words are deliberately changed. Our emotions are sticky, and they very often stick to words/labels even more than the things they represent, especially if those underlying things are vague or abstract. You can 'co-opt' the emotions we have for/against something by using the emotionally charged word, but changing the underlying meaning. - Deliberately changing language to effect social/political change, or to drive people's thoughts in a certain direction, reminds me a lot of 'Newspeak' from George Orwell's "1984." Orwell himself railed against those, especially politicians, who used words to obfuscate and confuse rather than to clarify and communicate honestly. - Another important question about the meanings of words is "Who gets to decide?" The people who write dictionaries? The media? The court system? A lot to think about here! Thanks again!

[@Lorrainecats]

Matt, I so admire your attitude and appreciate what you're saying and doing. God bless 🙌

[@vakudibeardefender3953]

The "ten minute Bible hour" podcast is my favourite.

[@cade8986]

Yeah. Calling yourself an “evangelical” now is interpreted as being a QAnon follower.

[@cade8986]

You. Because you replied to a KZbin comment that you found ignorant.

[@nigelwylie01]

It may do in America, but I’ve barely even heard of QAnon in the U.K.

[@JonathanPaz]

@@nigelwylie01 please don't look it up.

[@cosmicostrich3657]

@LegoGuy87 Even 95% of conservatives scoff at Q lol. It's just fan fiction really

[@btdtpro]

@@Meta_Myself If we're the people who should be spreading the gospel, then we should care what ignorant people think, because followers of Jesus should be the ones teaching. Saying "who cares" is like a math teacher being told the kids they were charged with teaching, think math class is hitting each other with measuring sticks, and the math teacher saying, "what cares what ignorant kids think".

[@timothymonk1356]

5:15 The 4 characteristics of "Evangelical" 1 - The cross is important; Jesus' sacrifice resolves sin and death 2 - The Bible is authoritative, from God, and accurate 3 - People change from 'dead in sin' to 'alive in Christ' 4 - You need to share this gift you've been given

[@bufficliff8978]

Boost

[@78LedHead]

Agreed, but we can do all of that without that label being attached to us.

[@MyLifeInTheDesert]

5. Nothing more important than America - country first 6. Obama is a Muslim

[@PrNickJones]

I like this idea of being more specific about our own views and being willing to discuss and share with those who believe differently than us. It reminds me of the quote: In Essentials Unity, In Non-Essentials Liberty, In All Things Charity. I have found much richness in the diversity of ideas and discussions, especially among those other followers of Jesus who don't believe exactly as I do. I have grown more spiritually in those conversations than with those who believe essentially what I believe. Thanks for taking on a topic that may be divisive among many.

[@huntermulberry3095]

That quote is 🔥🔥🔥 do you know who said it?

[@huntermulberry3095]

I found it! German Lutheran theologian named Rupertus Meldenius.

[@seranonable]

23:00 religion aside, this simple little concept represents a MASSIVE gap in modern people's understanding and you just summed it up better than I've ever been able to

[@eeneemeenee6236]

"That word you keep using: I don't really think it means what you think it means" 👍👍

[@VicGeorge2K6]

Actually, it's Syndrome from The Incredibles that said, "When everybody's special, nobody is."

[@MattWhitmanTMBH]

Dash says it too (in the car) - kzbin.info/www/bejne/bpi7dHZ4ormpeKs&ab_channel=PeterGriffiths

[@621u3]

Rod Serling - 'Being like everybody is the same as being nobody.

[@harktheheral]

Syndrome's line is "When everyone's super, no one will be." Matt is referencing the car talk between Helen and Dash: Helen: "Everyone's special, Dash." Dash: "Which is another way of saying no one is."

[@Conmezzo]

It's also alluded to in Gilbert & Sullivan's operetta "The Gondoliers." The unexpected rulers of Barataria try to create an egalitarian society for their friends. There's a musical number which is so etching like "When everyone is anyone the no one's anybody."

[@SneakyEmu]

Actually..... he got it right

[@PaulOfPeace54]

Love to chat with Christians. I keep the conversation to "Don't you just love Jesus Christ? Isn't He just awesome?" And the Mormons, Catholics, Anglicans, Baptists, etc. respond, "Yeah."

[@mikezeke7041]

““If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.” ‭‭

[@philipjfry6754]

I'm not a Christian just because I call myself one. I'm only really a Christian if Jesus calls me one.

[@DrFunke]

That’s not a very useful definition for us mere mortals.

[@btdtpro]

And Jesus never even called anyone Christian. It was just a term people in Antioch called the disciples. Based on what I see in scripture, Jesus cares more about how you treat God's creation, especially those made in God's image, human beings, than what we call ourselves as a group. I think we as human's often get too caught up in pushing are group and the name and emblems we've labeled it with, and we often forget that we spread the good news and teachings of Jesus and scripture, and the redemption Jesus brought and the love of God. We see people going out with signs saying "God hates X", but the gospel isn't, telling people what God hates, the word gospel is derived from the Anglo-Saxon term god-spell, meaning “good story,” a rendering of the Latin evangelium and the Greek euangelion, meaning “good news”, and the good news is what God loves. If we tell people God hates something about them, what good does that do them, but if we teach people God loves them, then they may return God's love, 1 John 4:19 "We love because he first loved us.", and when their loves for God grows, and their relationship with God grows, they'll grow to do less of the things that God hates, for example, hating others for having different sins than their own.

[@Heroniak]

"8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith-and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God- 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do." Period.

[@philipjfry6754]

My point being we should be less worried about what people see in us and more concerned what God sees in US. We should strive to be called Good and Faithful Servant

[@Heroniak]

@@philipjfry6754 thats a much better way of putting it =)

[@DaleBoyce2012]

This is an important message. Thank you, Matt. My devotional reading this morning included a response from Jesus to Peter that resulted from Peter misunderstanding the category 'Kingdom' or 'Messiah'. "But he turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are a hindrance to me. For you are not setting your mind on the things of God, but on the things of man.” Matthew 16:23 I think we might suffer from a similar category mistake when we attempt to change culture by political methods.

[@JesusLovesBest]

Amen!

[@CornCod1]

We Lutherans started the practice of calling ourselves Evangelical way back in the Reformation. We don't use it much now in the US because it has a different meaning here, namely the theology of Charles G. Finney.

[@pgimacahilasadrianjude5699]

The title caught me off guard. 😅 very interesting point pastor.

[@Sgman1991]

I would be more worried about the word "Christian" itself becoming meaningless. When someone tells me that they're a 'Christian,' I know almost nothing about what they believe beyond a vague positive attitude towards Jesus. The modern seeker-sensitive proclivities of Christianity have led to a total failure to define what it means to be Christian.

[@Kevin_Beach]

Greetings from a Catholic Christian in England. What occurs to me about denominational and doctrinal labels is that people like to think of themselves as belonging to something bigger than themselves. In secular life, we call it tribalism. In religion, we call it sectarianism. We feel justified by being identified with something big, like a child huddling against its father or mother standing behind it, as it looks out onto the world. We seem to have a need to have enemies to fight against, so that we can show that we are warriors for a cause. If there is no natural enemy on the scene, we invent one and encourage our tribesfolk to attack it. It's Protestants against Catholics. Or Catholics against Orthodox. Or Anglicans against Nonconformists. Or Christians against Jews. Or Jews against Muslims. Or Muslims against Hindus. Or Hindus against Buddhists. Or Southern deep-fried fundamentalist Gospel-speakers (God bless 'em!) against almost everybody. The problem all the time is that we look for the differences between us instead of the similarities. Instead, we should be rejoicing in the similarities and building on them. If we find that the differences might be fundamental to our salvation (and in my view, most aren't), we should be prayerfully and honestly examining them together, to discover how we might express them differently and come to a common understanding by using different words. And this takes me back to the theme of this video - the imperfection of words. Just as "Evangelical" may have lost its first meaning, and just as that first meaning may no longer be helpful to us anyway, so every word in every human language must from time to time be re-examined, to see if it is still fit for purpose. I spent my working life as a lawyer, and more than half of it as a judge. Words were the tools of my trade. I learned that language, which is supposed to be a means of communication, can so often be used to block communication, because of its imperfections. No word in any human language has an absolute, once-and-for-all meaning. Confusion arises because of different interpretations of what we mistakenly believe to be simple words with obvious and absolute meanings. We must stop trying to make enemies of each other. We have only one enemy - Satan, the Evil One, the Devil, the Father of lies, the Master of confusion, the Sower of discord, the Creator of divisions, the creature whose best trick is to convince the world that he doesn't exist. He is our enemy because he is God's and Christ's enemy first. Every time we disagree with each other about anything, we should first look over our shoulders, to see whether we are being prompted by a force that delights in our confusion snd divisions. Matt, may God bless you in your work. Keep making these wonderful videos and applying your obvious talents to them. Jesus prayed "... that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me". Let us join Him and each other in that prayer.

[@theBestInvertebrate]

This is a good conversation to have, I have not decided if I think you did it well but I am glad you did.

[@ParsnipsIncorporated]

I've always taken evangelical to mean non-sacramental and moderately decentralized churches. Maybe it isn't that easy. Interesting video, as always

[@vincenzorutigliano5435]

All non-denominational are evangelicals, even if they don't admit it

[@FrKevinDaugherty]

Traditionally, evangelicals were sacramental - such as Anglicanism, Methodism, and Lutheranism. The movement I am apart of (Convergence Movement) is sacramental, evangelical and charismatic. It is just one more way that "evangelical" has become disconnected from its roots and lost most of its meaning.

[@johndavidjones7475]

There is an evangelical movement in the Catholic faith as well.

[@mapblahblah3061]

@@johndavidjones7475 are you talking about the New Evangelist thing Bishop Barren is always talking about? Or something else?

[@EggShensSixDemonBag]

Televangelists hijacked the word and made it kinda bad. I thought it was bad until my theology rabbit hole I'm on and learned its real meaning. My conclusion: Calvinism and Evangilism are completely contradictory to each other.

[@juanreyna2725]

I was born in the Evangelical Pentecostal movement. My whole family is Evangelical, but after doing some research and learning to accept other views, I decided to leave the church. I started attending a non-denominational church, but unfortunately, they have the same views. Of preaching, they are the only ones who will go to Heaven. Now I started attending an Episcopal church. I am feeling good and not judge.

[@DianaHerberg]

My walk has carried me from Lutheranism through non-denominationalism, skepticism/atheism, to Southern Baptist, and finally home to Roman Catholicism. Praise God, through it all, I remain a Jesus-loving, sacrificially-seeking, prayer-offering, evangelical Christian. To me, "evangelical" simply means, committed to sharing the Gospel of Jesus Christ for the salvation of souls. (You say that's "evangelistic" but I would answer that "evangelistic" in my walk usually meant "called to evangelize" or "gifted to witness", while "evangelical" did not imply any particular calling or giftedness beyond what every Christian experiences.)

[@DianaHerberg]

Oh... and "fallen man" is depraved... "redeemed man" is good... the mystery is in the transformation from the one to the other...

[@DianaHerberg]

The comparison to the LGBTQ community is accurate, not only in the ways you mention, but also in that both groups are formed as a result of departure from an orthodox path (or, if the word "orthodox" disturbs you, use "historical" or "traditional" or whatever word means "what the majority of people generally did for centuries" to you).

[@jwhippet8313]

Where I'm from, "Evangelical," means Lutheran, or more generally, Protestant but not Calvinist.

[@JohDan6969]

Yep. Same here in Denmark...

[@MusicalRaichu]

Interesting. My previous church was evangelical but they were calvinist.

[@jwhippet8313]

@@MusicalRaichu , Evangelical means something different in Europe and America. In Europe, Evangelical means Lutheran denominations. Reformed means Calvinist. A person who says, "I'm going to the Evangelical church," means the Lutheran one in town. I'm trying to think of what an American style Evangelical church would be called.

[@MusicalRaichu]

@@jwhippet8313 I'm not American which is why I mentioned it. Evangelical in Australia has traditionally meant those who have the Bible as the sole authority of faith, which would include Lutheran and calvinist and others. I guess this means he has a point. The word means wildly different things to different people or groups of people so that using it has the potential to miscommunicate.

[@jwhippet8313]

@@MusicalRaichu , guess it differs continent to continent. I had to Wikipedia it to find how Anglo-usage "Evangelical" is called. Maybe not surprisingly, there's more than one word and they're all English loan words. Your definition is called "Fundamentalistic."

[@D-A-K]

I don't really have anything great to add to the conversation, but I would suggest watching the recent Hulu series "Mrs America." It's certainly speaking from a particular viewpoint, but it illustrates the history of conservatism in the late 1970s and early 1980s. Under the banner of conservatism many different Christian (and other religious) traditions banded together against "the libbers." It definitely stuck more with certain Christians and they gained immense political power, ultimately through the Reagan administration. From that point on the merging of the terms "conservative" and "Evangelical" became unstoppable and, while there's more to the story, I believe that's what put us on track for where we are today with the ethno-political-religious enmeshment represented by the term Evangelical.

[@Quisl]

I am not a native English speaker, im from Germany. To be fair I always wondered what the English word "evangelical" means... Martin Luther invented the German adjective "evangelisch" (from εὐαγγέλιον - euangélion = Good News) to point out the importance of preaching the gospel. In contrast of preaching just the law. However, over time this word "evangelisch" kinda evolved into a synonym for "protestant". I was told to not translate "evangelisch" with "evangelical". We also have the German word "evangelikal" which sounds more close to the English "evangelical". Its a word for low church Protestants - especially "fundamentalists" - who don't value Christian traditions. While the german "evangelisch" includes both high church and low church protestants.

[@johnrussell5523]

Is it possible that the term “evangelical” has been sullied forever? In the minds of many, the term has become a pejorative descriptor conjuring up images of an unholy alliance between politics and religion.

[@sherryzimmerman9220]

Thank You Pastor Matt.... much of what You has been saying has been swirling around in my head for a long time ..... I have belonged and professed myself as part of the ELCA beliefs since baptism.... and yet the the discussion of the word in political conversations has me chasing my tail somewhat....thank You for giving this discussion light of day for myself and others... and I am going to throw this discussion out to others for their thoughts.... Praising God always that we have been given a mind as a gift...... your work is thought provoking.... and always real for this 70 year old Mema who wants to live out the seasons of her life always trying....

[@jadehart2257]

My mentor and I always used the term "about it" to describe true followers of Christ. Like, "Oh, he is a Christian, but he isn't really 'about it.'" hahaha. It always worked super well!

[@matt2.019]

I think the most basic defining Christian belief is that God is love. Not that God loves, but that God IS love. This is displayed in the Trinity -- the Father is giver of love, Christ is the receiver of love, and the Holy Spirit is the love that they share. God (Christ) took on a human form and went through the most intense possible suffering out of pure love simply because he wanted to give us all a gift (salvation) that none of us deserve. St. Thomas Aquinas said that "to love is to will the good of another". I think that, above all, this is the fundamental mission of all Christians -- to will the good of the other.

[@peruseperusing5027]

Great clip!! I'm glad we're beginning to have the conversation...... :)

[@barelyprotestant5365]

This literally just happened: Me as a teacher in my classroom waiting for my 3rd graders to arrive: I'm glad I'm listening to this video and not something with adult content, so that I don't have to turn it off once the kids come in. *kids come in* 10MBH: Anyway, just like those LGBTQ... *quickly turns video off*

[@calebwhitcraft1664]

I watch a ton of your videos, and while I suspect there are more than a few areas where we might disagree, I always appreciate how gracious you are when characterizing other positions. That good faith in this type of discussion is too rare. Keep up the good work, brother.

[@jackiefields1607]

Terrific. Thought provoking! Well worthwhile. Thank you! I personally seek for terms that make my allegiance to Jesus Christ clear, but don’t immediately establish a boundary between me and the person I’m talking to. That leaves room for further discussion, which might enlighten me or might give me an opportunity to further share my beliefs in a way that’s helpful to the other person.

[@kathysmedley655]

Loved this-I’m tracking

[@thyikmnnnn]

When I hear 'Evangelical', I think of overly emotional non sacramental Churches.

[@PhoenixSong412]

Just finished a big research paper on this very topic and you still managed to raise new thoughts in my head. Great thoughtfulness and grace as always Matt 👍

[@tylergraham7352]

I've been feeling this way for a while. Thank you for making this video. I relate to you in that one of the hardest things to navigate is the dissonance on the word meaning between those inside the church and those outside. It is hard to convince many church goers that the name evangelical may have become a stumbling block for the people we are trying to reach. An additional difficulty is that I have seen many of those inside the church who are more politically minded than theologically minded in the first place and seek to ally themselves more with a political conservative who is not a christian than a politically liberally minded christian. (This goes both ways, but I am in a more conservative context) I think that's a huge problem.I don't know how to solve it. But I'm thankful for people like you who are thinking about it and wrestling with it as well.

[@alexanderfloyd5099]

As a recently converted Christian (atheist for 20 years-after being raised evangelical) I will say even now “Evangelical” as a term makes me shake in disgust. It makes me think of a judgmental, hate filled people, who use the Bible as both an idol and a cudgel to hurt the weak, different, poor and oppressed. An evangelical (as they present themselves in action if not rhetoric) is someone who’s only concern is being right and condescending to make sure everyone else knows they are evil and only the Evangelical is godly . They are special and only they are special. Their interpretation of the Bible is the only one. Everything is about them; they consider themselves the only true Christians. Don’t believe me? Listen them talk about their fellow Christians who are Catholic. “Evangelical” is just the modern way of saying “Hateful Pharisee”

[@joecool978]

Thank you for having this conversation. I think Gavin Ortlund’s book “Finding the right hills to die on” overlaps with the conversation you’re having on this channel. The “theological triage” conversation he addresses is an integral part to what unifies us and what distinguishes us; what belief’s truly define believers, and what beliefs are secondarily, tertiary, etc. I also see an overlap with the challenges the church is currently facing as addressed in your video titled. “What’s Going On?” I’m concerned when we don’t know what convictions to stay unified over and what convictions to graciously separate over, the church becomes a distraction from the transformative power of the gospel, rather than an agent of it.

[@joelcerimele3217]

Gotta say, Ten Minute Bible Hour is one of my favorite KZbin channels! Thank you so much for this channel where all kinds of people can come together to learn!

[@suebroyles7600]

All of it is good, hashing this out stirs up what we got in us, however we can't force anything, we live by faith! Trust in He who lives in me, let's continue to try and define what we believe with out any judging. Yeow that will take love and patience. Good job!

[@aaronlaw97]

Your past several videos have been focused on defining the term Evangelicalism, or what it means to be an Evangelical, and I think you would agree that the conclusions that you found are unsatisfyingly vague. There is repeated mention of the Bebbington Quadrilateral and that Evangelicals are a distinct theological movement, but when you were unable to illustrate them in concrete terms or demonstrate how other Christian denominations fall outside of that definition, this hints to me that Evangelicalism may not have had a strong theological foundation for its identity to begin with. You have spent quite some time talking about why "Evangelical" has become a loaded term on the political landscape and how non-Evangelicals may have co-opted the word to mean something it does not. It is understandable that you would like to distance yourself from that designation. You also talked about how changing market forces have shown that the needs of the public have changed over time and that different ways of upholding Christian conduct may have as well. These are excellent points that you brought up. What I am not hearing, however, is how Evangelical Christians factor into the equation. You drew attention to that not all Evangelicals are Republicans supportive of D. Trump, but you don't talk about the fact that a majority of White Evangelicals do fall into that voting block, and why that has come to be. You talk about the needs of the people changing over time, but do not mention how Evangelicals have remained stagnant or moved in another direction in media consumption or on social issues. The focus of your past few videos have been on outsiders' perceptions on Evangelical circles, but disappointingly you have not discussed if Christians who self-identify as Evangelical may also need to reflect on their own conduct and identity. Changing the label that we put on ourselves does nothing if our actions remain the same: the same connotations are going to translate into whichever new term is used to define us. I think that Evangelical Christianity have to try to find a way that can clearly define itself that is not anti something, be it anti-Fundamentalist and anti-liberal / anti-Mainstream, or anti-abortion, anti-postmodernism, anti-secularism, anti-whatever. Being vague and general about the identity as a Christian is not helpful either. Evangelicalism has so heavily leant into Conservative American politics because Evangelical Christians have been unable to find itself an identity to situate itself in, lending itself to politics to find that. I believe that Evangelical Christians have to deeply reflect on what they stand for and how they express that to others. I hope you read this comment, and I would love to hear your thoughts on this.

[@dellaswanson9837]

Um...Try putting PRO with life and you ANTI with kill baby in the womb and you win :)

[@JohnDoe-wt9ek]

Evangelism, to this "Christian" (however, even that word is so callously overused and misunderstood due to American Cultural appropriation of the term), is difficult to truly describe without (as some people here have shown) the wrongful representative false gospels, teachings and even the American "Prayer" of Salvation. At its core, the concept is that of either bringing the Gospel to those who have misheard or not heard much about it, and to bring revival/renewal to those who have but had fallen away. The issue is that much of the "Evangelist" movement has predominantly become focused SOLELY on parishioner numbers and turnout, rather than genuine salvation through gospel truth. Which is hurting the church because SO many people are getting a very light (and very incorrect) view of the Way. And many churches refuse to espouse any other books, let alone touch the Old Testament because its so "violent". But they will go over and over and over on the Gospels until its vomit inducing. They refuse to stray away from spiritual milk as babes and go into the spiritual meat as adults in Yeshua and YHWH Elohim. And because of this refusal, you get people who become incredibly biblically illiterate. Voddie Baucham stated, in one of his recorded sermons, that Biblical Literacy, in total, in the United States, was at 36%. That's TERRIFYING! How many people have an incredible misunderstanding because of cherry picking or the perception of people rather than what is stated in the Word? And this goes for BOTH sides. At one point even Atheists were biblically literate like the "Christian" was. Today, its universal. So many people have no depth or breadth to the Bible, whether they believe it or not, but presume themselves experts because they read an expose on a certain verse/did their daily devotional with a particular verse. If you aren't reading it cover to cover and trying to reflect on said segments you go over for that day... Are you really learning anything? Or are you just taking what you enjoy, and disregarding what you don't agree with? This is why Evangelism is losing its potency. You cannot be a good disciple in the Western World, if you have no clue what your Bible talks about. The East and controlled countries have an excuse. Scriptures aren't mass produced and printed for public consumption like Europe and the Americas. Many of those countries, if you're found with scripts of the Word, let alone discipling for Yeshua, let alone any kind of hint of faith in the Way, outside of Islam or other state approved "religion", you will receive imprisonment or death. But for us in the West, we have no excuse. We have so much literature, writings, study bibles, inductive study bibles, thesauruses, concordances, translation and transliteration student bibles, historical documents and treaties on Scripture, and schools with which to go and learn MORE about theology. And yet we're at 36%. And then we wonder why false gospels are taking such strong holds within the Believing Community.

[@beowulf.reborn]

The reason that the term Christian is so broad now that it's almost meaningless, is because people *didn't* fight for the meaning of the word. Words matter, and when people start changing definitions, they're wrong, and they should be corrected.

[@ahumblemerchant241]

This is definitely one of the most serious problems in Christianity. Should people who believe Jesus was purely a mythical allegorical figure be called Christian (Etymologically, Christ-Follower)? It has to be defined strictly, and people should not be afraid of using anathema on what co-opts the term. Nearly every confession of Faith originally had an anathema on it, yet the Medieval RC abuse of the term "Heretic" has driven some people off from trying to define Christianity.

[@englishlearningcenter1470]

That is why unity is so important. Maybe this is why Jesus prayed for unity.

[@amybee40]

The word "thing" is still helpful to differentiate from "people" and "places."

[@JBB685]

Great word when playing 20 questions

[@carywinn3391]

Very well done. I am a confessional Christian who is Evangelical in the historic "Reformation" sense. North-American Evangelicalism seems to be Experiential, Decisional and/or Political rather than Creedal or Doctrinal. While NAE was once akin to holding dispensational theology (with which I disagree), it now seems to be equivalent to being Republican at best or White Nationalist at worst. I think this complete isolation from theology is most evident with the inclusion of Charismatic/Pentecostal communities under the Evangelical umbrella because of political alignment.

[@bobwheeler3220]

I enjoy your channel - this episode reminds me a bit of how Bishop Robert Barron describes "The Beige Catholicism" of the late 20th century, especially in the US.

[@teejb]

In the west, evangelical basically just means "Christian, but not Catholic."

[@oswaldrabbit1409]

Nah, not in the US. It's only used to refer to particular Protestant denominations, not all of them, and definitely not Orthodox.

[@drosprey]

I recently started reading the book, 'Jesus and John Wayne' by Kristin Kobes Du Mez, which is very relevant to this conversation. Also noticed Phil Vischer (of veggie tales fame) has been recently making content around this. I think it would be great if you were able to pull off a conversation with Kristin Kobes Du Mez specifically about her research on how evangelicalism has resulted in our present situation.

[@Dewisant80]

I agree that the politicization of the Christian faith was a mistake. My own church is seeing this occur in Russia right now, in response to what they see as decadence and immorality in the West.

[@fortisrisuspater]

Very thought provoking. As an Anglo Catholic and former Baptist, this question has come to mind frequently. What does evangelical truly mean??? You nailed it when you’ll said it has become a nebulous. Wouldn’t it be great if we could get leaders of the various denominations together and discuss topics like this with the goal of finding an agreeable answer. Seemed to work in the early church... one can hope.

[@michaelmichael11]

Sane Christians are waking up to their crazy tongues speaking, faith healing, apocalyptic uncles. I understand the culture of timidity to a degree. Even as a former Christian it pains me to see how insane people just took the ball and are still running with it. Love your videos and the podcast. Keep up the good work. I’m happy for your success.

[@manuelescoto100]

i undertand you Matt thats why i became catholic. God bless you

[@andrewgilbertson5672]

As one of those word-warriors (who feels that language's purpose falls apart when meanings aren't fixed) who fights the futile battle against the unstoppable tide... well, it's nice to know I'm not the only one, even if we are a rare breed. :-) Lingual drift is the basis of most modern propaganda, plenty of confusion, and a loss of beauty in the language. It's also... probably inevitable. Which I get. But it's nice to know that I'm not the only one irked by it.

[@billmartin3561]

I think you have discovered the flaw in evangelical churches (vs those that identify as Presbyterian, Baptist, Catholic, etc). Without a governing body that all align and associate with, evangelical churches can be whatever their pastor and congregation wants. You need a common creed to standardize your core beliefs. Structure is good, not bad.

[@ShaunCKennedyAuthor]

Christianity Today just put up an article yesterday (2/14) that I think dovetails nicely with a lot of what you've been saying lately.

[@EverettAcres]

Always appreciate your thought piquing conversations. For some reason I felt you really hung on the word taxonomy. Our way to try to order the world. Which got me thinking back to a book review on Brain Pickings for “Why Fish Don't Exist: A Story of Loss, Love, and the Hidden Order of Life”. While I haven’t read the book (it’s on my reading list), what intrigued me was this comment about it: “But while his strange and cautionary story backbones the book, it is ribbed with larger ideas: questions about the vain and touchingly human impulse to manufacture order out of elemental chaos, about the colossal blind spots that plague even the greatest visionaries, about the limiting yet necessary artifice of categories by which we attempt to navigate a world of continua and indivisibilia, about our pursuit of timeless truth against the backdrop of our own inevitable and heartbreaking temporality.” What I get out of this is that we manufacture meaning for ourselves. How can we possibly know all the complexity behind the definition/taxonomy through our lens without an open mind that “truth” can be elusive. Not that we shouldn’t strive for that but we must be willing to question ourselves and be willing to take another path and not just put a stake in the ground and claim an absolute. Sorry - quite possibly an incoherent spew of chaos coming out of my keyboard! 😜

[@darrylclark563]

Your monologue reminded me of a college professor I had in a literature course in 1985. She lectured for an entire 50 minute class on what a disservice it was to the English language in general and the literary world specifically on the corrupting of the word gay to mean homosexual man, when literarily it had such a rich vibrant nuanced use, and that replacing it with happy, just did not measure up. I think you are echoing her sentiment 36 years later. There is no solution that will satisfy everyone. That said, I struggle to find positive terms to define evangelical. When I here the word evangelical at best I think hypocrite or the goats mentioned in Mathew 25.

[@danielawilliams5988]

I have been wondering for years and I think it causes confusion. Great vid!

[@thepunkrockchristian]

Your humble honesty is why I love this channel! Even when I disagree, I can see where you come from and can understand why you came to your conclusion. Continue this good work Matt, God Bless!

[@mtoohill]

Good conversation starter. I like the idea of sticking to the specific denomination name. The all encompassing "Christian" title allows cults like Westboro Baptist into the group.

[@justreadingthebible8810]

I just want to say that I've had conversations with WBC members. Certain perspectives notwithstanding, those people take the instructions of Jesus Christ way more seriously than many Christians in my circle. Including me.

[@mtoohill]

@@justreadingthebible8810 Seems like a really low bar. Which instructions are they taking more seriously? To love one another, to love your enemies, or forgiving those who sin against them?

[@AABlann]

I think you are right about most of what you said, but this is not a new challenge. Consider: C.S. Lewis’ description of ‘Mere Christian’; the Church identifying with Apollos, Paul, or Cephas (1 Corinthians 1); and the Reformation faced this issue. Heck the word Church means a building etymologically when family or congregation would likely be better. But we don’t need to defend any particular term. We do need to defend/explain what true saving faith is with gentleness and respect (1 Peter 3:15). Our theology is too complex to distill all of its truth and nuance in a word or two that most people in the places we live will know what we mean, but we must continue striving for and adopting simple terms that do identify us with God’s Kingdom and invite further discussion rather than create stumbling blocks. I am tempted to use my favorite terms that I connect with deeply, but often they are confusing at best to others. Lets build our foundation on Christ: being charitable, patient, and kind with our brethren while trusting the Holy Spirit and scripture to teach, reprove, and correct. This work, if fruitful, will survive the test of fire. (2 Timothy 3 & 1 Corinthians 3) I fear this may sound like I am disagreeing with you, but I actually think you and I probably see eye to eye on much of it. Thanks for all the great things you do brother, and keep glorifying God!

[@bouseuxlatache4140]

@Matt, love your methodology as much as your position. God bless.

[@giuseppelogiurato5718]

I admit that I've always (probably very simply) understood "Evangelical" (in the Protestant context) to mean "any Protestant denomination/congregation that believes that everything you REALLY need to know about God is contained in the four Holy Gospels"... I don't know where I got that idea, but I know now that I was WAY off, lol. (I think I had it confused with the Greek word for "Gospel/good news".) I have also heard it (mis)used to mean "evangelistic".

[@elizabethallen1415]

I guess I'm a boundary-crosser then. I identify with being Christian - loving God, loving Jesus, trying to do the right thing, and so forth. I attend the Church of Christ which is soley (soul-ly) Bible-based. BUT, there are precepts in the Bible I don't embrace. I have been told I am not Christian as a result of these push-backs, and in all fairness, it just makes me think less of those who feel the need to tell me that. I creates MORE division, not unity. AH - the mighty power of words. This was an amazing video. So glad I found you. These videos continue to help me so much in my journey as a Christian and human being - especially during these current trials. Bless you brother.

[@littlemas2]

Matt, I know you have some history with the Evangelical Free Church, because I fellowship with your grandfather at E Free pastor's meeting here in Nebraska. I would like to help lead our local church to a name change, but not lose the denomination name entirely. I am not committed so much to the word Evangelical, but rather that fact that for us it does have some historical connection. Furthermore, I do not think changing to some "trendy" name like when the General Conference Baptists went to "Converge" (I went to Bethel Seminary) is all that helpful either because these types of trends have a limited lifespan, and I think it will lead to constant rebranding and not having much stability. I am desiring to rename our local church to reflect either a theological concept or simply the local area, while keeping the denominational name as a subheading to help people connect to history. I think there is a legitimate concern leveled at "evangelical" churches that we don't have a connection to history, and I think constant renaming makes that even more of a problem. I am involved in church planting, so I know that God continues to do work in new things, but in a day and age when traditional societal institutions are being destroyed and everything reinvented every 5 minutes, I also know we need a connection history. For me, "evangelical" is not as much about the larger meaning, but rather about the specific history within our denomination. Thus, just like Reformed churches should teach about what their name means, and Lutheran churches need to teach about who Luther was, my church needs to help people connect to our particular history.

[@littlemas2]

As a follow up, I just saw that you had a conversation with President Kompelien. I have not watched that yet, but I will.

[@robstevens9590]

30 years ago (shortly after the fall of the communist regime in Romania) I did a series of Bible seminars. I had some common projects with the "Evangelical Alliance", which included a broad spectrum of non-Orthodox churches, most of whom had undergone and survived 40 years of persecution. One day I mentioned to one of the pastors that I admired how the various denominations co-operated, and that this type of unity was generally not the case in the USA. He said, "In front of the world we (the various denominations) are Christian brothers, and we only discuss our differences under 4 eyes."

[@jjnan1407]

Time to give the word back to the Lutherans

[@docmitchel6742]

Based

[@MaximusLight]

Here's another option: Say Christian (or not) and say what denomination you are rather as a school of thought than as a group of people. (Option 7 I guess?)

[@sb-ru7xk]

I think that the early church had problems with defining who they were. With in the church some would say I’m of “I’m of Paul, I’m of Apollo’s, I’m of Cephas and I’m of Christ”. Man made labels can divide the church. However when the Judaizers and gnostics were coming in and calling themselves Christians then the church absolutely had to define and defend who they were. Therefore, it was important to put a label on ourselves. It is a never ending battle with puffing ourselves up or that false doctrine sneaking in. Words do matter. I hope I said that right.

[@MarcusSwope]

Just before covid I became obsessed with a board game called Dialect that perfectly teaches this point. Should definitely check it out. It reminds me of one of those games you'd play in your classroom. It is very good.

[@Storyideas81]

I can see your point. The word racist gets missed used daily by the media.

[@nicomarsh5830]

I know you probably already have a list of churches to visit next but if I may offer a few brief suggestions: - A Nestorian / Church of the East Church - An Armenian Apostolic Church - A Russian Orthodox Church - An Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church - Bethel Church - A Mormon Church - A Mennonite Church - A Quaker Church - Messianic Judaism - A Presbyterian Church - A Methodist Church - A Jehovahs Witness Church

[@davidburghardt8155]

Wow Matt - just wow. You've certainly given me a lot to think about. I'm in Canada and part of the United Church of Canada. I fear our "United" label has really come to overshadow our commitment to Christ and the Gospel in favour of political progressivism. We've even reached a settlement with a Minister, once ordained, now says she is an atheist - and yet, the church came to an agreement with her and her congregation where she could continue. Talk about a watered down elastic name for a church "united." It seems to me that in a desire for our tent to be so inclusive and diverse - we'll accept anything. I'll be watching this video again. And by the way, it's been a while since I've checked in with you - hoping you leaving your congregation was thought to be the best for all involved. Are you okay?

[@fanman8102]

I no longer use the terms “evangelical” or “conservatives Christian” just as I no longer call myself a “Christian” for the very reasons you named here. I call myself an “orthodox believer” meaning I define myself be the creeds, especially the Athanasian Creed. Not a lot of wiggle room in the Athanasian Creed. Either you’re a believer or not.

[@jLjtremblay]

"Évangile" = French, masculine noun for "Gospel" "Evangelical".... sooooooo distorted today from its original simple meaning. But that's what English does when it borrow words from us. By the way, another overwrought word "awesome"... but I have to use it here. I think your show is awesome! I always enjoy it. You're an excellent presenter and a good soul!

[@colinbarnard3921]

It the word Evangelical is causing issues with the work of evangelizing. Drop It. The only name that matters is Jesus. Around my parts I've seen three local Mennonite churches change their name. They've dropped the Mennonite from their name because it was causing issues with being welcoming. Even though the majority of them are Mennonite (both culturally and religiously). Some of the older members have a hard time with it, but the younger members don't identify with it. They identify with Jesus.

[@alexwarstler9000]

It could also be that the older generation understood the Mennonite way of following Christ and that the younger generation is more influenced by the nebulous postmodern way of following Christ, picking and choosing what to believe. To say that the younger generation just identifies with Jesus is to assume that the older generation does not.

[@colinbarnard3921]

@@alexwarstler9000 I think I was too strong in my language when I wrote that the younger generation doesn't identify with Mennonite. The three churches I know who changed their name are still still par of a Mennonite conference. They still follow Mennonite theology. But they are willing to drop the name, because they feel that name was hindering their ability to reach out.

[@abigailcarlson1292]

Great video! I appreciate every point. On a technical note, I noticed that you don't splice together your videos anymore. Good one take.

[@Joel_C_P]

Hi Matt, a viewer from the UK here. As far as I can tell, we just don't have that idea of an evangelical being a political group in any way like you seem to in the US. With that being the case, I would say that the term 'Evangelical' over here remains mostly that of the original theological definition. I don't know if you think that the word holding true to its original meaning oversees would have an impact on how you see the discussion over there, but I find it interesting adding that new dimension to the conversation. With two English speaking nations developing different definitions of the same word, if one stops using it, how should/would the other change also?

[@alananimus9145]

The way I see the evangelical project is it was an attempt made to create a "mere Christianity". The project kinda fell apart when the Calvinists did as they do and took it over.

[@atticuscatullus]

Thanks for being brave and trying things! I appreciate that you are willing to disagree with grace. I think it will be really interesting to see where this discussion goes in the future.

[@notcortana]

The RLDS church rebranded in 2001 as Community of Christ to identify the church with Christ's mission rather than being identified in opposition to the LDS church. It reflected changes that had taken place within the church and also set a trajectory for what the church wants to be.

[@deusimperator]

I think a better term is Bornagainsm or Billy Sundayism. The fact is that Evangcalism began in the Anglican Low Church but Bornagainists/Billy Sundayists are definitely not Anglicans,

[@vaportrails7943]

“Born Again” came from…Jesus.

[@otsoko66]

"It would be entirely inconvenient to have a totally unambiguous language, and luckily we have not got one."

[@skyttyl]

My background is the 90s and early 2000s, so "evangelical" is a fairly new word for me; we used to use the word "denomination" to describe the various differences in belief from one Christian group to another. My experience with "evangelical" is it seems to replacd the title "Christian," meaning any denomination can be evangelical. I'm sure there was a more proper meaning in a far earlier time, but the usage just seems to be a synonym today.

[@Saxondawg1]

Yes, it's all true. Many of us are dropping the term Evangelical as a self-description, while cherishing the same beliefs. Meanings of words shift in time--language is temporal, ephemeral. But we also need to recognize that the real problem here is not the words, but the speakers. We pollute our own labels with our misbehavior. You can ruin your family name locally through your actions. Or you can lift it up. We as Christians are blocking the doorway to the kingdom for those Christ is inviting to enter it. We need to get out of the way and let people see him.

[@jasontarmon8505]

I think the word needed here is 'corruption' not 'evolution'. The word 'evangelical' has an explicit meaning as 'of those who evangelize'. Evangelism being the spreading of the Christian Gospel. The fact that people understand it wrongly doesn't change its literally literal meaning. Merriam-Webster even defines it as "as in missionary". People not knowing the meaning of the word is our own fault; a fault that should be corrected, not embraced. It was very likely an error to use the word as a descriptor for anything beyond its basic definition and we reap what we sow with the further corruption of the word now spreading through society generally. The idea that words have no intrinsic meaning, and that a meaning has no relevance beyond our use of it this very day should be understood by anyone as being obviously wrong. The fact that meaning can drift over time does not mean it should be embraced, everything must be tested on its merits. In general, if a change promotes distinction and improves communication then it is good. If on the other hand this change removes distinction or creates ambiguity then it is bad, 'literally' being an example of this. Ambiguity gives ammunition to equivocators and destroys our ability to communicate with each other. If a way of peace is ever to be pursued, such things cannot be tolerated. Peace requires the ability to communicate, not the conflation of tribally interpreted utterances seen in today's media. The solution to this problem with 'evangelical' does require, I think, backing off its use in such a broad heavy handed manner, but must also involve the use of the word being corrected; FIRST IN THE CHURCH, then in the world. If your congregation emphasizes evangelism, then you should be called evangelical, if not then you shouldn't. It really should end right there. All other definitions should be publicly denounced and abandoned.

[@TK-qu1ht]

I appreciate your wrestling with this. It's important for The Church. FWIW... I'm a ACCC or AC3 person. A Augustinian-Calvinist-Classic-Christianity person now for almost 60 years. IMO, for some time now the sociological meaning of the word “evangelical” has been co-oped by political forces. Francis Schaeffer warned of this in the 1980’s. He wanted to be a co-belligerent with some, but soon realized he’d been played. He expressed sadness and repentance later in his life over this. Tom in The Black Hills of South Dakota USA

[@scottmcloughlin4371]

Specific + Ecumenical = Winning. We "join" where we are the same. We only "name" where we are grouped apart. We will mostly join most of the time. The battles are never over.

[@reepicheepsfriend]

Hi Matt! I really appreciated a lot of what you had to share in this video. Some insights about how we got to where we are in our cultural understanding of evangelicalism were especially appreciated, as I'm of a younger generation and not as well versed in history, so thank you! Personally I'm okay with the vagueness or non-sharpness of the label "Christian", and I'd like to share why with you. It's because I follow a person, Christ, not just a set of teachings. And I believe that Jesus Christ is currently alive and exercising authority over his people. Thus, it's not for me to decide who counts as a Christian based on my limited understanding of Christ's teachings. That's his job. Also since (as mentioned) I have limited understanding, someday I may come to a different way of understanding Christ's teachings than I have today, but that won't make me any less of Christian as long as Christ still accepts me as one. If a religion is defined by a set of teachings or principles, then those kinds of labels are obviously very important. But if a religion is defined by one living person, then what matters most is our allegiance to Him. The more you trust Jesus Christ to be involved actively in correcting and guiding his church, the less ridiculous or scary that sounds. Personally I take a lot of comfort in John 10:27 "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me."