TTA Podcast 198: The Question of Christ

[@eddieking2976]

Seriously. I've lost count on how many times I've listened to this. Just awesome.

[@nasticanasta]

Because you live in a religious bubble...yea atheism is a religion.

[@Trevor_Green]

@@nasticanasta false. Atheism is literally a-theism and means not theist. Stupid comments Dave, stupid comment

[@rick420buzz]

@@nasticanasta Atheism is a religion in the same way that OFF is a TV channel.

[@anrose8335]

@@rick420buzz ha ha good one!

[@argonlitium2837]

8 TIMES !!

[@helpyourcattodrive]

Seth and all these people are gold.

[@pabstep2611]

What a wonderful episode. These three gentlemen go together like peas and carrots; their interaction is fantastic.

[@marshawoods1493]

I loved this!! You guys are so hilarious!! I know it's almost 4 yrs old but I just come across it!! You are all so smart.. Thank all of you!!

[@eddieking2976]

I agree Seth, this is by far one of my favorite podcast. Thanks to PRICE, Carrier, and Fitzgerald, you guys were awesome.

[@ThomasFreestoneInfo]

My delusional brother, carried on for an hour about "Jeeesus!" Oh the mental anguish I suffer for being a freethinker and Atheist in a Mormon family!!! I sat silently as my brother goes on about how much he loves his savior Jesus Christ. GAWD!!! I hate what religion does to the intelligence of humans! I hate religion!!! And I am soo happy to know I not going to an imaginary hell in the mind of a brainwashed Christian!

[@shinobi-no-bueno]

I'm in almost the same boat, my brother and I are the only ones in our family who left the church and I think I'm the only one who has ever actually had my records removed.

[@JohnDavis-e3c]

Hate will only ruin u. Define u!r words and take time to consider what u say.

[@eddieking2976]

Can't wait for Seth to have these gents back. Great video.

[@leejoyner4532]

One of my favorite episodes so far Seth, please have these guys back for another one. I will be looking foward to it!

[@melindad180]

This was perfect for this season! It gave me a state of peace that will help me be forgiving to those that hold such dogmatic and unfounded beliefs. I am ready! 💕

[@mikedadivas1837]

This conversation never grows old. I keep on listening to these erudite and funny Jeeeesus experts. :D Good work, Seth on being a great host!

[@MarkLipka]

*"Nailed" was a fantastic read and amazingly compelling and CONVINCING. My highest recommendation!*

[@nontheistdavid]

Dr. Price is hilarious! I love that guy.

[@jackrathbun2248]

To all the people complaining about the opening of the show; stop complaining. I myself am fairly busy and don't get a chance to listen to all of his broadcasts. I really like that he gives us an update as to what is going on and his thoughts on non-religious topics (i.e. the holidays). And he has to put the ads for nature box in, since, you know, that's how ads work! It also makes the show feel more approachable and casual. Keep up the amazing work Seth!

[@Skinnymarks]

I generally like his personal bits at the beginning it really brings out a lovely flavor to think about juxtaposed agenst the more intellectual topics. It balances out the cerebral with the daily the scholar with the contemplation of meaning in life. Though I really hate the nature box ads. I think it has more to do with the fact that it's a prerecorded bit so every time it's the same words the same speech pattern the same spacing and inflections of words. I'm sure it's a weird deja vu thing. I would much prefer him speaking candidly about what he got recently or what he likes and maybe something about the last time he snacked from his nature box. Just please make the sound different.

[@TorianTammas]

Yes I agree and as it is a free show we should be glad that he makes such an amazing job.

[@Skinnymarks]

TorianTammas yes, they are incredible shows to be compleately free and posted on KZbin so quickly. I consider Seth to be one of the pioneers of new media.

[@_barm]

I'm happy that he could find a company that would sponsor a show like this. I wonder how many of their christian customers know they sponsor an atheist podcast? Hey, I grew up in America, ignoring commercials is early training.

[@Ugly_German_Truths]

+>Barm Why would they care either way? "healthy fruit based snacks" does not sound like something you'd specifically seek out due to your own religious views or where you would care too much about what the religious ideas of the people behind the company are...

[@disrxt]

This should become a TTA Xmas tradition. What a great show!

[@Troubleshooter125]

Thank you a LOT for this episode, Seth! In terms of clarifying and debunking the whole Jesus myth, this show was invaluable. I expect I'll be auditioning this show at least once again and likely many more times to absorb some if not all the details your guests offered up here. Have a Merry one, bro!

[@cyber6sapien]

Damn! Robert M Price cracks me up! I LOVE listening to him!

[@TrevorLentz]

+cyber6sapien If he ever debates in michigan, ohio, or indiana... I'm taking off work to go see him speak!

[@dacritter8397]

+cyber6sapien I enjoy listening to all four of these guys.

[@Brickerbrack]

+Da Critter Although Carrier should stop ever saying "oral lore". :p

[@blackice9088]

I remember some Chritmas gifts where I and my friends had more fun playing with the boxes they came in than playing with the actual gifts that came in them.

[@zyrover]

I experienced this with my oldest son. My wife and I were baffled!

[@eddieking2976]

Listen to this four times already. By far my favorite podcast.

[@BuddhaAtheist29]

When I was a kid at Christmas I couldn't help but to wonder why Santa didn't like poor kids.

[@Sweence]

This should be required listening for all of the religious kooks out there who still adhere to a literal bible. Jesus is clearly a made-up character from a composite of other fictional characters who sprung from a virgin and woke from the dead. Great podcast and a great assembly of interesting and studied panelists!

[@bleirdo_dude]

Link this everywhere, even in forums you rarely visit.

[@juba9575]

Fantastic podcast. I enjoyed the banter.

[@grumylynn]

Such an intelligent and challenging conversation. I need to listen to it a few more times. Great stuff.

[@argonlitium2837]

8 times !

[@jazzhuman]

I love listening to Carrier, Price and Fitzgerald. Three very different individuals with three very different perspectives on the christian legend. Their research achievements, writings and broadcasts have been a great help as I came to terms with the great forgery we know as christianity. Thanks Seth for putting them together on the one show. It was fascinating from beginning to end.

[@smeggie42]

wow these guys really know their stuff. very good show I enjoyed it very much.

[@nasticanasta]

smeggie42 no they don't, they always attack from a catholic view point..lol that's so fucking easy, even us Christians slam Catholicism....which is a cult...you idiots are so stupid 🤣

[@Trevor_Green]

@@nasticanastafalse. They are speaking from many viewpoints, not catholicism. Regardless, like a different sect would make any more sense. You obviously didn't listen to it at all Stupid comments Dave, stupid comments

[@axz1001]

Brilliant stuff

[@rchuso]

Excellent show, dude. I could be completely _out in left field_ on this, but here's the conclusion that came to me after many years of intense study and training which culminated in the mid '90s. Of course, having given up Christianity (and all other religious sentimentalities), I also jettisoned my religious library and references (a local religious school was happy to receive them). Moses was very likely a creation to fill a need at the time. The Canaanites from captivity were returning to Canaan, and needed their own backstory - so they created one. They invented Hebrews - from the memory of the long expired group that were probably extinct because of the Egyptians centuries before their captivity. Hence the need to write books like Chronicles to "prove" the ancestry point and Exodus to document their initial arrival and separation from the other Canaanites. Much of the redaction probably took place under the aegis of Ezra. Genesis, of course, was largely gathered from the ancient stories of the Babylonians (and Assyrians, and earlier Sumerians) - most notably the flood, Babel, and creation myths, as well as the initial migration of Abram who made the trek before them, and received the promise that this land to which they returned was given them by their god. Jesus was more than that though - he was likely a gnostic character that resulted from the Jewish (Philo, mostly) mix with Neoplatonism and to a lesser extent the Neopythagoreanism prevalent in Alexandria where many of the Jews fled from the Romans. This was to assist the Jews with transitioning from their old belief system and failed promises of having a temple in Jerusalem to what became known as gnostic Christianity where they were on their own. It's likely that Mark was written there for that very purpose - and never intended to be taken as a narrative of a real person called Jesus; only a character protryal of the Form of the redeemer. This also goes somewhat towards explaining why the Egyptian influence on Christianity is so strong (the myths had a precursor in the Isis cult, Mary and Lazarus names weren't changed much, &c.)

[@teacherrussell5206]

How did I miss this episode?! All-star jam.

[@vryc]

This was an AWESOME show, Seth. And while Price is my favorite of all biblical scholars (the man has some serious, serious wit and humor at the worst of times) I've been warming up to Carrier since he wrote "Sense and Goodness Without God". Fitzgerald I don't know but I'm definitely going to read some of his stuff now. For the longest time, even as a non-believer, I still thought there was more plausibility to an historical Jesus figure, without all the supernatural woo. But the more I look into it the more I'm shuffling to the side of the more academic mythicists. And Carrier is right: I haven't found a good, academic 'Historical' account of Jesus and I'm waiting for someone to write one or point me to one so I can at least refer people to a well-researched work when asked for the best perspective on both sides. You gotta get these guys on again, or even better, arrange to have them speak or debate as a team.

[@scottsmith2235]

Great broadcast--three deep thinkers collaborating the underlying truth that many do not wish to talk about. (This show was a “God-send”) 😆

[@Ghost_Of_SAS]

Concerning the people complaining about the promos, they should probably remember that "when the wise man points at the moon, the fool stares at the finger."

[@bleirdo_dude]

HA!

[@deadviny]

and that substance without form is yet to be proven to exist

[@eddieking2976]

Is this a reference the Bruce Lee movie Enter The Dragon?

[@Ghost_Of_SAS]

Eddie King Nope, a Confucius quote, but I guess it could also be.

[@anthonycostine5067]

Only listening to this now, in 2024. It's landmark podcast on this subject. A joy to listen to. Obviously a lot of water has gone under the bridge since then, which makes this discussion all the more valuable as a historical meeting of minds. I'm a fan of all involved.

[@TalladegaTom]

Show actually starts at 8:30

[@TheThinkingAtheist]

Actually, I count the opening monologue, the perspective on Christmas, the details on the "Unholy Trinity" tour, etc part of the "show." But thanks.

[@TalladegaTom]

***** Well if you say so. The "Unholy Trinity" tour, which is cool and all, is promoted all the time. One can skip that and not miss anything eh?

[@TheThinkingAtheist]

Talladega Tom One can enjoy a show opening and understand the benefits of show sponsorship without being a dismissive douche, eh?

[@TalladegaTom]

***** Sheez. I prefer to enjoy the show without all the promo jazz and because of that I am a d-bag? Oh c'mon. Lighten up.

[@TheThinkingAtheist]

Talladega Tom I just think you're missing the point. If you don't care for the pre-topic conversation and the commercial, fine, but they remain legitimate parts of the broadcast. The show is the entire show.

[@Sidistic_Atheist]

*Fantastic* ...I couldn't believe the time, when it finished. *I got lost in the riveting conversation* I'm going to have to go back and write all these facts down. For later arguments. I have a memory like a sieve...lol

[@MARossTheBear]

You're not alone in the 'memory like a sieve' department.

[@GodWorksOut]

Many people frown on Richard Carrier, but he know his shit.

[@rstevewarmorycom]

@Phelan He's teasing, he tells that because it gives him audience laughter.

[@JohnDavis-e3c]

Amen!

[@AegisNova]

Seth: A friend explained the apparent passage of time to me. When we are young, say six years old, a day is a larger slice of our lives than when we get older, so even though the day is still 24 hours, our perception, as we get older, is that it's a much smaller slice of our lives, so time flies.

[@starpenta]

This was 2014? Ok. Well, then, my 'prediction' I'd that things will take a bad turn in 2016... I love Christmyth too! All hail the glorious pine tree! 🎄🥳😍

[@Cosmeticjunkee]

❤️the overflow of intelligence!

[@Anne--Marie]

There was an ad for Hillsdale College bible study before the video began. Hillsdale, a college that should have lost their 501(c)3 status years ago.

[@jenniferbrewer5370]

Every culture of the era had a savior-based mystery cult; why should the Jews have been any different?

[@chrisneeds6125]

not why, but how is their Saviour-based mystery cult different? :-)

[@chrisneeds6125]

@William Wertz Blessings also to you William. Maybe Jennifer Brewer will do a little more research and find the proof you speak of? Ten of Yeshuah's close followers (who became apostles), willingly gave up their lives to persecution. I wonder if they thought that Jesus was just another mystery cult, or whether following Him was worth dying for, some of them by the most excrutiating death ever devised?

[@chrisneeds6125]

@John Texas Gamaliel made an interesting observation (check the book of Acts) to his fellow Jewish leaders when deciding what to do with Jesus' 'heretical' followers: "Let them go." he said, "If this movement is not of God, it will just fade away." That was almost two thousand years ago. Many people have tried to make Christianity 'fade away', but Abba always has His remnant.

[@chrisneeds6125]

@John Texas Hmmm, i wonder if Judaism is not the foundation of Christianity? I wonder if Christianity is not actually Jewish? Same God, same faith. They've both had their fair share of tyrants trying to wipe them out; unsuccessfully, of course. Hinduism has nothing to do with Gamaliel's logic (not my logic) since it is polytheistic or pantheistic in all of its forms. Do you know anything about what you're trying to have a discussion about? Come back, dear, when you've done your homework properly...

[@chrisneeds6125]

@John Texas Really? When did you last read the qu'ran? The Muslims revere Jesus as a prophet. I wonder if you understand how and why the antichrist spirit works the way it does? I wonder if you have *any* concept of the spiritual realm? Of course you don't, you're an unbeliever and therefore cannot understand spiritual matters, as proven by your ludicrous comments. I'll not be wasting any more time on you, John from Texas. Next time you want to comment on spiritual matters, make sure you've done your homework first, and you're not just sprouting the latest hate speech and/or cancel-ology. Good bye John.

[@jazzhuman]

This discussion is absolutely crucial to the understanding of the link between the early Jewish sect based on the teacher of righteousness and the development of the Christian sect.

[@Alpa6c]

Thank you for continuing to provide enjoyable Podcasts. Some comments on this particular Podcast illustrate the seemingly common impatience of many people in this time of instant gratification. It is my observation that your presentation of the sponsor's product is well done, and not like the mindless television commercials I see every few minutes during most all programs.

[@moneymikz]

Merry Saturnalia to all...and to all a good night

[@jilllong3627]

Excellent show, Seth! I listened to it twice already because there was so much to absorb. I find it amazing that this info is out there and yet so many still believe in the Jesus myth. Like my mother who no longer speaks to me. Thank you for the work you do.

[@TipTheScales27]

This talk reminds me of this pbs documentary I watched that turned me into an atheist. Nobody in my life had ever questioned Jesus’s existence... yet here was this documentary with biblical scholars basically saying, “yeah he probably didn’t exist and even if he did, his existence would’ve been greatly exaggerated”. I highly recommend checking it out if you’re doubting. It’s called “From Jesus to Christ: The First Christians”

[@Maya_Ruinz]

Fantastic show, its amazing just how much information we know about the supposed time of jesus and just how much looking back into history shows just how bunk it all is.

[@Jaramide]

About what to do on a 15 hour flight. As someone who does a 12 hour trip fairly often my two golden tips are: 1: Noise cancelling headphones, I use Bose myself but there are cheaper brands that will do the trick. After 10 plus hours of engine noise you will go CRAZY! It's worth the $200 to spare your sanity. 2: Last but not least, drugs! Lots and lots of drugs. Seriously, get yourself something that will knock you out or at least make it easier to fall asleep. If hell was real it would be a never ending flight sitting in coach never being able to sleep. You might not believe now but you will see the light soon enough ;)

[@Trendwatch_2016]

I bought my kids Jenga for Christmas and it dawned on me what a great analogy for Christianity it is. If you've ever played it you'll know that the more holes you poke in it, the shakier it gets and the higher(further) it reaches until... well, you get the point.

[@MARossTheBear]

One of your better shows Seth. I throughly enjoyed myself.

[@AtamMardes]

Because of what I don't know, I'm an agnostic in general. However, because of what I have learnt so far from history, religion, human psychology and behavioral science, I'm an atheist when it comes to The God Of The Bible, Yahweh, Zeus, Allah, Romulus, Zalmoxis, Osiris, and the rest of the man-made gods.

[@RubyNeumann]

Thank you for this. Very encouraging. You have no idea how important this was for me to hear this conversation.

[@PiraticalFox]

I've listened to all your shows. I honestly think this is the best. Well done!

[@JaminGray47]

One of the best shows you've done...loved the dialog.

[@ybrynecho2368]

This was a great podcast; I really enjoyed it and will probably listen to it again soon.

[@bonnie43uk]

When you realize that *not a single word was ever written about Jesus during his lifetime* (FACT), It adds much more credence to the idea that Jesus didn't exist.

[@ekscalybur]

The people following him around, think he's the most important person ever born and will ever be born. Didn't write a damn thing down. Seems legit.

[@moneymikz]

If zombies were in fact walking the streets of Jerusalem and no one bothered to write about it until 60 years later....seems plausible

[@Clipstreu]

Guys! OBVIOUSLY they expected to die shortly later so why would they write it down? Clearly once he came and went the historians just abandoned their careers! also none of them did it while he was preaching because they were... You know... Doing other things! *sarcasm*

[@jenniferbrewer5370]

If he was supposed to be this powerful Messianic figure that everyone knew about, why did the Romans not know him by sight? Why did anyone have to ID him if he was 'all that?'

[@chrisneeds6125]

Correct, Jesus just didn't exist; He exists to this day...

[@drezworthy]

Robert Price is the man.

[@OrinSorinson]

Seth, I think this is my new favorite episode. It was such a fun conversation with a great balance of humor and information - the dialogue flowed so naturally. Maybe they'll be gusts in another future episode? Have an awesome christmas!

[@cerberaodollam]

Music, sketchbook, pen. All I need on a ride.

[@kirsteni.russell5903]

This is brilliant literary analysis. Wish I'd been able to take a course on this in college.

[@jacher44]

Excellent and very interesting talk with dr Richard Carrier, David Fitzgerald, dr Robert M. Price about how the myth of Jesus Nazarene of Galilee was created, forged, falsified, manipulated by... the #Christians themselves! I am the true prophesied #Jesus #SonOfMan the living #God , the #Savior and I very much recommend that conversation of the biblical scholars at the TTA Podcast 198 show! Listen carefully, think, change the world for the better! #GodWithUs !

[@rationalagenda7083]

love this subject - I dont buy Carriers hypothesis for a minute, but it does highlight all kinds of interesting questions

[@MikeOfKorea]

I was a minister, but I was dedicated to studying the scriptures, and that study opened my eyes about how unreliable the scriptures are and how ridiculous christian dogma is. Good podcast, though the first 10-12 minutes almost turned me away. Cut down on that intro stuff.

[@Mozkonauta]

I know Robert Price is a great Bible scholar, but he is the hardest to understand. Anyway Richard Carrier’s comments explain Price. Great podcast!

[@CyberiusT]

I agree, Seth - that was one of (if not the) best shows you've done. Lookin' forward to that beer & barfight session. ;)

[@markaaron9957]

On the issue of time seemingly going faster as you get older. I'm surprised at you Seth. Of course there's a scientific explanation. Have you never heard about how when you're three, a year is fully ONE THIRD of your life? But when you're fifty it's a fiftieth...a sliver! Yes, that's how it works.

[@danniealexander4131]

Listening in 2019 😊

[@argonlitium2837]

2021

[@edwardmiessner6502]

2022

[@felixandboots2]

Almost everything they associate with Christmas has absolutely nothing to do with Jesus or Christianity. It is all from the Germanic Winter solstice festival once known as Yule. The church hijacked the festival. As it did other solstice festivals such as Easter. In an effort to eradicate pagan and folk superstitions, traditions and rituals. The only contribution made by Christianity to modern day festivals was the birth of Jesus/ Nativity story. Literally everything else is actually Yule. The fact that the midwinter festival was Renamed after Jesus does not mean Christians own it.

[@bleirdo_dude]

Keep sharing this...Let's get these view numbers up and up.

[@dpcunningham3767]

That good is it guys ??? I must have a listen so

[@nonofyabidnez5737]

finally got around to listen to the show, another really awesome and insightful one!!!

[@KemaTheAtheist]

4:44 It seem that way because each successive year is a smaller portion of your entire life. If you're 5, then 5 years is twice your entire lifetime. If you're 30, then 5 years is only 1/6 of your entire lifetime, so it seems shorter by comparison. It's an actual phenomena, but I can't remember the name of it.

[@steveb0503]

There's also a phenomenon wherein your perception of the amount of time passed can be influenced by the number of perceived unique events experienced - the more events remembered, the longer amount of time it seems has passed. As your catalog of experiences grows (as you get older), many experiences get categorized as "mundane" or "old hat" ("same shit, different day", etc.) and your sense of amount of time passed shrinks. I realized this YEARS ago when I noticed that certain hour-long TV shows seemed "longer" than others and that there was a direct correlation between the shows in which a lot of stuff happened being the ones that felt like they were longer. This is, of course, seemingly in direct contradiction to the old idiom about "time flying when you're having fun" - but, researchers in perception and cognition have since arrived at the same conclusion as my "intuitive psychology". Vindication!

[@taiya001]

I was super upset that I did not get socks as a kid. I love socks and oh boy practical gifts are AWESOME! I just like one gift that is frivolous.

[@pannonia77]

So Mark is supposed to have based the crucifixion story on Josephus. The problem with this assertion is that we have the epistles of Paul which talk about Jesus being crucified, and they predate The Jewish War by 20 years.

[@JennyKay513]

Right, and half of the epistles of Paul were forgeries. Try again.

[@insanetester1015]

@@JennyKay513 This is not said enough.

[@edwardmiessner6502]

Except in Joseohus ( _Life_ 75 ) one of three men taken down survives with the best of what then passed for medical care. In Mark all three crucified kicked the bucket.

[@Phi1618033]

Carrier rightly points out that there are many puns in the Gospels that don't make sense in any language but Greek, but he also fails to mention that there are also many puns that don't make sense in Greek, but make complete sense in Hebrew or Aramaic. For example, when Jesus calls Simon Peter (rock in Greek) because he will build his church on that rock, suggesting Peter was the foundation stone on which it will be build, that pun is kind of strained in Greek. But if you take that same pun in Hebrew: "I will call Simon 'Even' ('stone' in Hebrew) because he will 'boneh' ('build' in Hebrew) the movement." The Hebrew words "even" and "boneh" (stone and build) both come from the same Hebrew root V-N-H, "to build". Incidently, the root V-N-H is also very close to the Hebrew root V-Y-N, which means "to understand." That is, Jesus is making a compound pun. Simon is the builder because he's the one who truly understands. So, as you can see, that pun makes a thousand times more sense in Hebrew than it does in Greek, so, yeah, Carrier is mistaken.

[@TorianTammas]

You can belief what you want but we have only greek copies of whatever original might have been. So we have no evidence for a aramaic claim. You are aware you just make a claim about a possible wording which we do not have? So it is without any evidence? Why should Carrier be wrong just because you thought out a possibility (which is unproven and we have no evidence for)?

[@Phi1618033]

TorianTammas Who said anything about belief? I'm countering Carrier's claim with a fact, not a belief. As for having the "original" gospel in something other than Greek, we do have a version of a Matthew in Hebrew that's quoted in a book called The Touchstone by a 12th century Jewish scholar named Shem Tov. Admittedly, many New Testament scholars -- including Carrier, I'm assuming -- dismiss this Hebrew Matthew is simply a Hebrew translation of the original Greek, but if you actually read the Hebrew version -- which I can do, because I'm Israeli--a ton of Hebrew puns fly off the page, especially some of the more famous Jesus quotes. The Peter/Even example is merely one of many. A few more examples: the famous Jesus line "do not throw your pearls before swine, lest they trample them and turn to attack you." (Matt. 7:6), the Hebrew words for "turn" and "swine" are 'yakhzor' and 'khazir', respectively. Jesus is making a pun, in Hebrew, on the ignorant pigs (pharisees) who will merely turn against you. In Matt. 10:25, Jesus says,"If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub." Master of the house in Hebrew is 'baal habayt', which means the host, the man who welcomes you into his home. Beelzebub is itself a mocking Hebrew pun on the Canaanite god Baal Zebul ("Master of the divine home"), turning him into Baal Zebub ("Master of flies"). Jesus is again making a compound pun between baal habayt ("master of the house") and baal zevuv/baal zebul ("master of the flies/divine home"). This pun obviously doesn't work in Greek, so whoever first spoke this sentence spoke it in Hebrew, not Greek. Again, this is only the tip of the iceberg. The Gospels are full of these Hebrew puns. Many of the purported words of Jesus only truly make sense when spoken Hebrew, which suggests the original speaker spoke them in Hebrew, not Greek. I'm assuming Richard Carrier doesn't know or acknowledge this fact because his Hebrew skills are deficient. Of course, this isn't to say this proves that Jesus existed. It's still possible that these Hebrew expressions were spoken or made up by someone other than Jesus. But it does very much counter Carrier's claim that the Gospels only make sense in Greek. That claim is clearly false.

[@TorianTammas]

Tal Moore Provide evidence that this 12th century thing existed in the first or second century. If this is not possible it is just a claim without substance. Belief means in this context "I have no evidence but like to entertain the thought that it might be possible."

[@Phi1618033]

TorianTammas Clearly you're too obtuse to understand. Throwing pearls before swines, indeed.

[@TorianTammas]

Tal Moore How about you provide evidence for your claims and answer the questions. Otherwise it is just ranting, claims without substance.

[@ziffulmyer]

I agree Seth...this really was a very captivating show! Even more than usual. And, I'm truly not trying to kiss up, but, your moderating the conversation was seamless.

[@PluckySmurf]

One of my favourite shows yet. For sure. This was sparkling brilliance. : )

[@Sines314]

I kinda know what you mean about practical gifts. I'd be happy with some new underwear or something else I did actually need. However, I still prefer gifts of things I only want, because there are lots of things I'd like to get, but I can't really justify spending money on. Getting things like that is extra good, because you don't feel guilty for spending money so frivolously on something you don't need.

[@garudagal23]

great show, thanks Seth and thanks also to the three wise men ;]

[@fullname6750]

Even though I usually don't like Year in Review stuff, great show, Seth.

[@Xenthoid]

Very fun program, seth.

[@scatton61]

for your flight. I recommend audio books. Try the Truckers, Diggers and Wings trilogy also Small gods and the last continent from Terry Pratchett. I would get your self an Android or Windows tablet that allows you to add additional memory like a MicroSD memory card or USB memory stick so that you can take loads of content. Also get some bluetooth headphones.

[@LucasMidkiff]

I love this stuff.

[@MrBDF2000]

Great show! Guests really played off each other to keep it entertaining and moving.

[@JessZomb]

I don't understand the complaining about the monologue at the start seems pretty fitting for the time of year

[@kosys5338]

Faith is nothing more than a sea of ignorance, there is no knowledge or wisdom to be found in such a place. The path that leads to truth is littered with the bodies of the ignorant.

[@jestermoon]

Best episode I have seen. Thanks again 1:31:10

[@ianharvey6969]

My mate is a Christian. He loves to go to gay cruising spots and bum strangers and also giving them reacharounds. His wife has no idea. Still goes to church each Sunday tho.

[@kathyheitchue6069]

Ian Harvey Somebutty is surely stuck in the fear closet,so sad.

[@Astronomater]

great show guys.

[@catsgonom]

I find it strange that most atheists I talk to about Jesus think he still could have existed. As far as I can tell it's all a hoax. You already know gods don't exist and Jesus had no magical powers, why not just say he didn't even exist?

[@bleirdo_dude]

I had this same experience.It's like they want to keep the Cork on the cognitive biased Bottle?

[@johntalbot2558]

I think it is because many of us are scientists, and as you probably know we would require proof either way. Saying that you BELIEVE something does not exist without evidence is just as bad (in science) as saying you believe that it does exist.

[@bleirdo_dude]

If someone said to you "I took the Goat on the Boat to float across the Moat".Would you think this person was telling an actual event or being artistic?Well that's what the Gospels are and that's being artistic but not knowing classic Greek literary style it's not easy to see.

[@catsgonom]

***** It is certainly easier to think a lack of evidence for something means it most likely doesn't exist. There is just as much proof for Jesus as there is for unicorns. I don't for one second give unicorns a chance, why would I give Jesus a chance? Jesus did not exist. The end.

[@johntalbot2558]

***** I agree, - it is probably easier to assume that things do not exist if there is a lack of evidence, but from a scientific viewpoint researchers cannot make that assumption. It would just be bad science. Interestingly Chris Hitchens (anti-theist that I am sure you are aware of) thought that a historic (non divine) Jesus probably DID exist. Otherwise the writers of the new testament wouldn't have had to cook up the fictional story of the census in Bethlehem to explain why someone from Nazareth happened to be there at the prophesied time. If the historic Jesus was pure invention they could have just said that he came from Bethlehem - which would have been a lot easier for them. Interesting point - and Hitchens was very well informed.

[@LalK2K23]

2019 anyone?

[@bleirdo_dude]

Awesome!

[@EPrimeify]

Wait what?! Last 2 weeks you been live on BTR at like 11 AM, so I haven't had a chance to be there. Is this like a permanent move, Seth?

[@Siberius-]

I loved the start to this show because I can't wait to go to the Australian Unholy trinity Tour lol. Plus.. really easy to just skip some shit.. I'd rather he makes some money especially since it hardly inconveniences me at all. Plus.. I watched this for over a whole hour and a half.. I can deal with an intro lol. Awesome podcast this one was.

[@MsDjessa]

25:26 Diamanda Hagan talked about this in her review of Mel Gibson's Passion. I highly recommend it.

[@realitychannelwithtomparos8238]

This issue is the main reason I became a n atheist.

[@joedanero]

Great show.

[@GallusSapien]

25:24 why would Judas need to mark the most famous man etc... Because he would have only been known by deeds not by his face. Picture yourself in a time where photography was impossible and you were tasked with identifying a person based on what you had heard they look like. Might be difficut to do. Might be made easier if someone were there to point the person out.

[@JennyKay513]

@VideoAudioDisco09 Exactly, and he rode into Jerusalem, a week before palm Sunday, on a donkey in a parade even. I mean, really! All those hundreds of people...multitudes...who saw him preach and he had to be pointed out? Ridiculous.

[@edwardmiessner6502]

@@JennyKay513 Except they needed Judas to point him out because they didn't have a description of him. I know nothing about any existence of police detective work back in ancient Rome.. The Temple guards could have gone by memory or by what eyewitnesses described, but then they might have seized the wrong guy. There are still instances of mistaken identity today (James King Institute for Justice) Besides, according to the story, Judas offered his services!

[@sklaiss0298]

Great show

[@Nizati]

... Am I the only child ever that liked getting socks for Christmas....? I liked anything... And socks were something I could always use..

[@Shangori]

I get holes in my socks every 2 months, so I understand where you're coming from. ...this year I'm hoping for a lamp. We moved a while ago and the living room is still a bit dark in the evening. Always prefer shit you can use

[@catsgonom]

Shangori I always ask for money. The ultimate in useful gifts. I can just go buy whatever I want and I don't have to beg or ask for something specific or be disappointed by crappy/weird/stupid gifts.

[@Shangori]

***** True, but thats a bit too impersonal in my eyes. I do get it tho

[@Nizati]

Shangori I agree... Someone knows you and your needs if they understand how often you get holes in your socks. It's definately better than money in my opinion.

[@ybrynecho2368]

Nizati My most unwanted gift is a gift card that is for a specific store. I'd rather get cash/cheque or a donation to the charity of choice. I really don't need gifts anyway - if I want something, I go buy it. Yes, charity donations are the way to go.

[@shalamigri]

The one odd thing about Josephus that no one ever mentions is that he was born around 37AD. That's about 5 years after Jesus' alleged crucifixion! How could anyone view Josephus as a reliable historian to write about Jesus when he wasn't even born when Jesus died? Paul in my opinion would be more reliable since he at started writing his epistles around 50AD which is more closer to the alleged time of Jesus. I just don't get that...

[@heathenwizard]

As a poor college student with a tendency to lose socks, a gift of socks is usually welcomed by me haha!