The real reasons Apple won’t put macOS on the iPad

[@TheVerge]

Are there any other questions you haven’t seen answered that you want to see us try to solve? Drop it down below:

[@stefanroell7252]

Why MacBooks (and Laptops) don't have 5G?

[@yellowdrangon]

What is the Obsession with making things thinner and taking away functionality...? When is thin too thin...?

[@yellowdrangon]

Why are webcams on laptops (still in 2024) so bad?

[@yellowdrangon]

Why is the adoption of responsive touch screens and software so Slow in the Auto industry when we have Phones and Tables that are so good?

[@Najeebster]

Great video Owen, you're a very affable presenter. I get why Mac OS doesn't come to iPad but could Apple make Mac OS 'touch-friendly' without destroying the iPad sales? I see no reason why not since iPads would remain mainly a consumption device, would be thinner and lighter. It *might* dent iPad pro sales a little but I wonder what proportion of iPad sales are iPad Pro?

[@geauxracerx]

Crazy how they spent 2 years trying to convince us that iPads would replace computers; and then once it has the power to actually do so they refuse to do it

[@abdavey]

Of course. Because they want to sell you an ipad AND a mac.

[@pentiumvsamd]

" iPads would replace computers " but not a Mac. that will never get replaced, unless is by another Mac.

[@software_training-ck9ng]

I feel so bad I bought an iPad Pro M2 12.9", but if they are willing in the next 1-2 years to add a windows or ubuntu emulator that works well, then I am all over it.

[@Wannes_]

@@abdavey And they'll end up selling me neither ... I don't want a mac that's looking and feeling ever more like iOS

[@mauricio2869]

I think that the iPad shouldn’t have Mac OS but as the same time iPad os is so limited when you compare the two OS. The iPad could do as much things as an Mac but the real problem are the apps and I just realized this a few days ago. For example the mail app on both systems works in a very similar way but when you look at the iPad app then you can see the lack of functions that are not there. The app could be ok on an iPhone because you are not going to do a lot of stuff like in a computer but in an iPad this is so limiting. In another hand we have the multitasking which it’s ok and it get better on M1+ iPads but it could be better. Sorry for my long explanation and hope you understand my point of view

[@Lostatsea23]

Not sure how long this dude has worked for The Verge but he’s great. Charismatic and funny , and very likable! This video was also edited really well. Loved the transitions

[@DarkPa1adin]

First time seeing this guy on camera

[@hhere2stay]

big tech jesus

[@TheVerge]

Thanks so much! That's so nice of you! I'm normally behind the camera directing some of our other videos. -OG

[@memofromessex]

@@hhere2stay More American scientist out of 90s British comedy show 'The Fast Show', in the nicest way possible!

[@detailsproapp]

agreed!

[@rhitamdutta1996]

They won't add it because they need to make more money. As simple as that. Convincing you to buy an extra product makes them more money.

[@fisheye375]

that’s it!…everything else is BS. It’s all about money

[@TamasKiss-yk4st]

That is part of it, but there are more logical answer for the real reason. The display generate a lot ofnheat too, and that makes a huge difference in usage, if that 4W heat from display is generated next to the chip (tablet) or far away from the chip (macbook with independent display far away from the SoC). That 4W power consumption means a tons of more throttling for iPad, since the SoC need to generate 4W less to compansate that too, which means you can't get the same experience, if the OS allow you to do the same demanding things like the Macbook, it will throttle way more, which gives you a worst experience in total..

[@fucky889]

@@TamasKiss-yk4stbs the benchmark has already proven that it can

[@jakasep8848]

this comment needs to be pinned on top!

[@stonebubbleprivat]

If you have seen the video you would know it's not the reason. The money you make with selling an extra product is tiny in comparison to the 15-30% they make on purchase on iPhone/iPad.

[@BarelyAverageDude]

10:39 the crowd laughed, but it was Apple that’s laughing at us. 😅🤦🏽‍♂️

[@skygodvariety]

Facts

[@gltovar]

I’ll tell you what, I would have loudly cursed them if I were in the audience.

[@vanesslifeygo]

lol

[@olukoyaopeyemioluwaseun8559]

@@gltovar lolssss

[@DimitarBerberu]

fix to 10:35

[@OrafuDa]

Lots of good points, App Store, money, etc. Yep yep. But what y’all are missing is that the whole point of the iPad is to have a larger around-the-home (+ travel) portable device with a *touch interface.* The touch interface is what makes the iPad portable. Yes, you can attach a keyboard when you need one (I am using a keyboard right now on my iPad). For longer texts. But the apps need to be designed quite differently for a touch interface than for a mouse interface. Because touch points need to be larger than mouse-clickable buttons. And you can reach both near and far points very easily with a mouse, with very little hand movement, while crossing an 11 inch screen with your hand or the Apple pencil is taking much more energy and time. That is also one more reason why it is difficult to fully port a Mac app to the iPad. Touch interfaces and mouse interfaces are just very different beasts. Touch doesn’t do so well with menus, for example. When people are asking for MacOS on iPad, what they are really asking for is full mouse support … a different screen layout for apps so that they can use the full power of a menus-and-buttons UI that is designed for a mouse. These are UIs that enable high productivity for many apps. (Except maybe for drawing, or interactive music making.) Apple is trying to improve the Apple pencil to give people an alternative to menus, and more fine-grained pointing. But both are limited: the menus that the Apple pencil can bring up have a limited number of items (because there is no easy way to enable fast high-precision scrolling and selecting), and pointing with a pencil held in the hand hovering over a surface is not as precise as moving a mouse over a mousepad or nudging a trackball. I believe the moment that Apple would support MacOS on iPad is the moment that iPads become tethered to mice and keyboards, and stop being portable devices. People would not turn their iPads off and switch back to iPadOS. And even if MacOS was a virtual machine on the iPad, as an app, there would be tons of problems to solve to make seamless interaction between MacOS and iPadOS apps possible. One more thing is that iPad apps live in a very different market than macOS apps. iPad apps can be the simpler home / hobby versions of the full-blown macOS apps … and sell for far less money. They can be fully functional, but when people want to go professional, they will switch over to a Mac and get the expensive pro versions. (- There are exceptions, like some drawing apps and music making modules.) And I must say, I really love this market segmenting. It gives me the opportunity to try out lots of stuff, and even finish some projects, all at a budget. And whenever I am ready, then I can go “pro” on the Mac. Or just leave it and do something else. At a budget price. Great! But ok, I hear y’all. You really really want a pro desktop experience on your portable device. But, if you think about it, you also want your touch device, right? And we don’t want to have to carry around both a laptop and an iPad, right? - Well, at least that is what I want. So, here is what I think *should* happen, the next step of the evolution. And oh man, I cannot believe that I am writing this in a youtube comment, instead of asking for real money for this. (God knows I do need money … I haven’t been healthy in more than a decade … oh well.) But here we go: I believe iPad should support both touch and mouse interfaces *in the same app,* and a way to switch or morph between the two. Yes, this is more work to develop. A lot of work needs to go into iPadOS to make this seamless switching work properly. And apps that support this also need to do a lot more work. But I honestly do believe that there is no one UI that fits all purposes. We haven’t found a way to make touch UIs as expressive and precise and professional as mouse UIs. So, to offer both on the same portable device, we need to morph between the two, depending on what the user wants or needs to do. The market segmentation could still be there: you could buy the touch version of an app and upgrade to the mouse UI morph version later, with an in-app purchase. And many apps will only offer the touch versions, because they do not make enough money to pay for the development of the mouse / morphed UI. But professional apps will have a path to offer both the portable / home and the pro experience in the same app.

[@richardc5100]

Also the reason they don’t add multiple user support

[@jetm]

yes, macOS for multiple user. iPad is super personal, like an iPhone for save much private data.

[@itsjustanks]

@@jetm Multi user support is there on iPad but only those that have been enrolled with Apple for Work and an MDM.

[@DougDmazzone]

what is this, 2005? There are no more family computers. Everybody has their own

[@blackneos940]

@@DougDmazzone macOS is Unix. That's a multi-user OS. So is Linux, and Android, and *BSD.

[@MattiaCeccopieri]

So you need to buy 2 ipads

[@SloanMosley]

BECAUSE THEY CAN'T TAKE 30% WHEN YOU DOWNLOAD AN APP FROM THE INTERNET

[@rubidium1948]

The average user would still use the Mac App Store for everything. Most people savvy enough to download apps through disk images or packages (as simple as it is) are also well-aware of methods to sideload iOS apps through means such as AltStore. The sideloading cut loss definitely isn’t as big of a problem for Apple with the MacOS iPad as is that it would cannibalize MacBook sales.

[@Proteus846]

@@rubidium1948That’s a bit of a leap there… I’ve been using Macs since before the iPhone existed, and by extension the Mac App Store, so I have a lot of experience with downloading application packages from the Internet. I know you CAN sideload apps on iOS, but I never have and haven’t even wanted to on a single occasion. They’re totally different devices with different purposes, and while there is more overlap now than ever before they (being iPhone, iPad, and Mac) are still totally different products in many ways with plenty of unique uses compared to one another.

[@vikrambalaji4126]

@@rubidium1948 No. No they would not. No one opens the mac app store dude. People download their apps from the internet like they do on every modern Windows device.

[@NCHLTII]

​​@@rubidium1948Not a single person I know uses the Mac App store or M$ store, tech save or not, they just download it normally from the website

[@instantlife]

If anything, they want the Mac OS to be like iPad. Sure, they try with their MacOS store but I still download Chrome, Firefox, Zoom,, Turbotax from their respective websites, not app store.

[@Fgtfv567]

1:57 "No wired headphone jack" "Need a dongle for any sim work or media dumping" Hey, I've seen this one before!

[@ashtonmiller-z1n]

well but we have wireless bluetooth usb-c port compatlbe rechagble headphones.

[@onyx8231]

You don't tell apple what you want or need. Apple tells YOU what you want or need. If you are asking why you need an internet connection to transfer a file from one device to another, it's because it's the ONLY way. Forget the old way ever existed. -- Customer: "I want to be able to code on my iPad." -- Apple: "You DO NOT want to be able to code on your iPad. You want to buy a Mac so you can code on your Mac." -- Customer: "I want to buy a Mac. Got it."

[@little_fluffy_clouds]

Except you don’t need an Internet connection to transfer files between Apple devices thanks to AirDrop, which uses direct WiFi between the two devices and Bluetooth to work - no Internet connection needed

[@jayrc7]

You ignored his point though 🤦‍♂️

[@TootXB]

@@jayrc7what was the point? What was the old way of transferring a file from one mobile phone to another that we have lost? You can transfer files from iPhone to Mac via cable. You can use usb drives to transfer from iPad to computer and back again.

[@H786...]

did not know this was the verge till i was halfway in. this is a back handed compliment.

[@lujnk]

my hot take on how to fix the ipad is just let 2 videos play at once

[@TheVerge]

I could finally watch "Rainy Day Sounds" and "Smooth Jazz Cafe" at the same time. -OG

[@howled0]

Symptoms of brainrot.

[@nylotical]

@@howled0 legit bro.

[@bassyey]

Wait, you can't? Damn.

[@arnold8009a]

🐐

[@Rishabh_Sharma]

Thanks for bringing back such videos. I was missing them a lot since dieter bohn left the channel.

[@lamarcabrian]

We’re two

[@lamarcabrian]

Heck no offense to this guy but I kinda wish Nilay was in this video

[@TheVerge]

@@lamarcabrian Haha wish granted! 11:07 -OG

[@PixelSheep]

​@@TheVerge:D that was awesome

[@pedropablopicasso]

@@lamarcabrian this guy seems way more chill than that hack nilay

[@huboz0r]

Missing a big distinction between the Ipad Pro and the other iPads. For the pro, the need for better use of the overpowered hardware makes sense. Any other iPad, you'd buy because it's an iPad doing ipad things on IpadOS.

[@jack_2612]

Thank you for mentioning that. Sooo many youtubers over these past years have overlooked this distinction. We are all okay with a 600 euros iPad being... just an iPad. But we are not okay with a >2k euros iPad Pro (13"+Magic Keyboard+Pencil) being JUST an iPad. Apple should, I know this sounds impossible and too costly for them, just branch out the products once again. It's either that or the iPad Pros become a part of the MacBook lineup inheriting Pencil support. This is the most likely scenario imo, if a proper computer-iPadPro is ever to happen

[@chidorirasenganz]

There’s nothing overpowered about the hardware

[@jackalneck]

Except iPad Air is also ridiculously overpowered for doing "iPad things" as well.

[@chidorirasenganz]

@@jackalneck except it’s not overpowered in any way

[@jackalneck]

@@chidorirasenganzyeah you need an M2 to run iPad OS. Not overpowered at all 😂

[@trebelojaques458]

Great video but if you want a straight shorthand explanation, skip to 10:00

[@zenithquasar9623]

That calculator app icon edit into the crusher ad made me laugh so hard!

[@SorryImRelatable]

I have the new iPad Pro, i’m a professional freelance artist and so I use my iPad literally every single day for work. I can say with confidence that iPad OS doesn’t need to be replaced, it just needs to be better. I’ve lost count of how many bugs and unnecessary limitations i’ve run into since making the switch from a wacom on windows/macOS. From simple stuff like the youtube app missing inputs made by the pencil and magic keyboard, to annoying problems like Discord requiring images to be saved to the photos library instead of the files app, to downright broken stuff like extended display not handling HDR properly or windows resizing issues when using stage manager. The apps I need to use for work like CSP thankfully are just as capable as the desktop version, but that is unfortunately an exception and not an example. I love using the apple pencil, I can illustrate and design for hours on end. I love how fantastic the display and hardware is, it’s truly class leading. I love a lot about the iPad, but the software really is holding it back. not because it isn’t MacOS, but simply because it’s not as good as it should be.

[@jayteknica1175]

This. iPad OS just needs to get better. It’s all the small things like when using mouse the back button to return to previous page doesn’t work in Safari and there’s no shortcut that can be assigned to do so and the KZbin app missing inputs like scroll wheel doesn’t work.

[@matt5721]

If they made one OS, instead of however many plus the new EU-only iOS, maybe they could get one all the way right

[@Sebbir]

Exactly! We don’t need macos on the ipad. We just need ipados to not be way more limited than macos

[@genelionhart8806]

Add in the hassle in file management in Ipad. I keep telling people that. No need for macos, just needs to be better.

[@ruekurei88]

Yup. It's always some weird nonsensical limitations too. Like plugging my Pro into an external monitor and not being able to adjust the display or resolution for the output. Like why tho? Ipad OS is just way too similar to IOS and it really needs to be more in the middle ground between Mac Os and IOS.

[@Spo8]

This is my first video I’ve seen with Owen presenting and I really dig his style.

[@comesignotus9888]

To state it more generally: it is a question of ownership. You own your Mac, but "your" iPad and iPhone are owned by Apple. On Mac you have the full administrative access and you decide how you use it. Apple doesn't like it and will gaslight you as much as it can trying to persuade you that the most secure way to use computers is when you let them decide for you what you need and what you are allowed to do with your hardware and software. And they will of course profit from it.

[@tlxreed]

Coudn't agree more with this statement? Do I even an iPad if I can't sell or give it away with Apple's OK? How about no file system you can actually access. All roads lead to Apple's piggy bank. Gave mine away for a real tablet with a real file system I can use as I wish.

[@happygofishing]

mobile software is for gentiles.

[@weston407]

@@tlxreed I have a Surface Pro that I never use and and iPad that I use all the time. I wish there could be a combination of both because the iPad user experience is so superior.

[@polishtheday]

I did tech support for years as well as helping friends and family and can say unreservedly that most people aren’t interested in using Terminal.

[@Demopans5990]

@@polishtheday Which considering how Linux operates in general, it's much harder to brick your device without touching the terminal. Most you can do is to set files as executable through right click

[@nephibarrera7438]

the claps on the 3:55 is funny and you just dont expect it hahahah

[@sweetbridge123]

I think what we really need is a way to access our macs interface without having to carry it around everywhere. Hence: sidecar should be available over the Internet

[@commentarytalk1446]

Do note Apple tries to lock down streaming from your computer over internet (but not intranet) due to App Store Policy so again they're dead set against certain options that by-pass the app store and reduce user options. Remote Software does work however but generally less performance for intense tasks.

[@santiagorivbarba]

13:19 WHAT THE HELL IS THAT CURSED MACBOOK AND THOSE PORT PLACEMENTS LOL

[@Archaic_Youth]

lol had me stare at it awhile to see what you’re talking about

[@tejasvidwivedi5978]

Likely AI generated lol

[@mananparekh_]

Finally, a take beyond the rudimentary. Appreciate your and nilay’s conversation about the business of iPad

[@exp2745]

10:15 Imagine Apple in 2008 saying they don't want the iPhone to become an iPod.

[@SimonLYW]

"An iPod, a phone, and an internet communicator. An iPod, a phone… are you getting it? “

[@Proteus846]

That makes no sense. The iPhone contained iPod functionality from the start; it’s an “iPod+” essentially, in that respect. An iPhone is more capable than an iPod, so it’s the opposite argument of iPad becoming Mac.

[@exp2745]

@@Proteus846 Ok, now imagine they'd launched the iPhone without music playback, then refused to add that functionality for over a decade. Apple was previously willing to cannibalize their own sales in the pursuit of overall better products. Not anymore, nothing dare cannibalize another Apple product.

[@SimonLYW]

@@exp2745 This isn't like that at all. A more apt comparison would be if Apple had the iPod and the iPhone, both devices with dedicated purposes, but because the iPod is also a portable device people were angry that it didn't run iPhone OS. You're talking about replacing an operating system not adding functionality. iPadOS has been slow in improvements but they're not refusing to add functionality.

[@DomainObject]

@@exp2745Yup. This exactly.

[@clariesat]

Google also doesn't want to make ChromeOS tablets a serious thing for the same reason. They do not want to give up the Google Play Store money coming from Android tablets.

[@EgbertHousman]

Jim liked driving around town with his hazard lights on.

[@intersexcryptid]

I'd be happy if they just made a better file system and allow use of any browser that isn't Safari more properly. It doesn't even have to be full macOS, just make the files work a bit better.

[@BigBampot]

I, for one, am thrilled to see Matt Berry join The Verge. Welcome!

[@rbfndz]

I guess being the CEO of Reynholm Industries isn’t as fulfilling anymore, so he quit and joined a real IT/Tech review firm this time

[@fadiabdi7103]

Best Verge video I’ve seen in a while keep up the good work owen👍🏻

[@tim_t]

As a front-end developer, it would be amazing to be able to code and draw on just one device.

[@benmarchal]

Great video and certainly the app model is a key factor in Apple decision. However the limitations that you encounter are mostly app-related. Consider the Apple apps: the Pages, Numbers are not dramatically under-powered on the iPad vs the Mac. But the largest third party developers do treat the iPad as an underpowered device. For example, Adobe could release a version of Premiere on iPad that would be as powerful as the Mac one. I'm an Autodesk Fusion user, the Mac version is powerful but the iPad version is just a viewer... fitted for the iPhone but the iPad? Why don't editors release powerful iPad versions of their apps? It's an interesting question.

[@francescoallegretti7112]

Laughs in Surface Pro 😂

[@AninoNiKugi]

Is Windows a good tablet now?

[@cim8097]

Your surface pro is still shit compared to the iPad with M chips.

[@bpurkapi]

@@AninoNiKugi nope its not, i have a surface and its the worst of both worlds. The tablet portion is too heavy. The keyboard cover is a pain to use on your lap, so its not a laptop. The software of windows is designed for mouse and keyboard. The touch or pen use is not great in windows.

[@SamHocking]

@@AninoNiKugi There's no difference, you don't even have to run a Windows Tablet in Tablet mode. Heck you don't even need to use a keyboard in desktop mode either ha!

[@SamHocking]

@@bpurkapi Sounds like you should have gone with the the Surface Book, that is a full all-in-one. A Surface is really only meant for hybrid/2-in-1 use. The Surface Book is one of the best devices i've used and I use macbooks every day at work.

[@detailsproapp]

Highly recommend checking out Federico Viticci and his “MacPad” series. Surprised he wasn’t included in this story

[@TheVerge]

His MacPad looks amazing! The amount of work that must have taken is wild. Sounds like a really cool follow up. -OG

[@detailsproapp]

@@TheVerge Truly. Thanks for checking it out, keep up the great work!

[@EmanuelC]

@detailsproapp do you have a name/link for the vid? Can’t seem to find the “MacPad”

[@TheVerge]

@@EmanuelC It's not a video, but a really cool, in-depth article on MacStories. www.macstories.net/stories/macpad-how-i-created-the-hybrid-mac-ipad-laptop-and-tablet-that-apple-wont-make/ It's super worth a look! -OG

[@mattceccotti]

Never seen you on video before Owen, but great job on this so far! (I am halfway). The writing is SOLID, love the little surprises, and great comedic timing on the "...money." Like others have commented, it brings back that Dieter vibe, and that's a great thing. Hope to see more videos with you!

[@paulwoodward8265]

Not convinced holding back iPad makes them more cash. As it is, most people will need a Mac, and those people will need no iPad, or a basic one. Pushing them to an iPad Pro with all the gear instead of a MacBook Air would net Apple twice the cash, plus a % of the App Store revenue…surely a win. It wouldn’t kill them to give us a text editor or terminal app, or make it possible to have more than 4 windows, or have multi-source audio, or allow file copies to happen in the background. Or run Mac apps installed from the App Store. If they don’t want iPad to be a computer, why the external 15:26 display support, keyboard and trackpad? I still don’t get it

[@randomlibrarian3810]

Never thought I'd be watching this type of informational "news" on the verge KZbin channel, but this guy does good work. Nice!

[@Amit_l92]

iPad OS needs desktop like functionality or at least some kind of mode that allows that.

[@JeffTech644]

I love the explanation, editing, and cross references! It would help if Apple didn’t put such powerful chips in the devices, that on paper, compare to their MacBook lineup and then limit capabilities at the same time. If policy and company direction are holding back the iPad from becoming another “windows 8 tablet,” then don’t put so much much R&D in trying to make the “most powerful tablet ever” making leaps and bounds consistently over the years. I bet this can also help make the devices more affordable and accessible if they’re going to rely on the App Store model. It would be a drop in pride to say the device is just a refined Wacom tablet (epiphany moment 6:00 ) when using Sidecar. Overall, I believe Apple can still make money using their current model for all I care, I just wouldn’t make the iPad Pro sound like the mightiest thing ever without backing it up with the useful capabilities that “pro” users want. One thing I’d heavily suggest for the iPad Pro in particular, if I had an opinion at the table, is allowing users to remote connect into their Mac desktops. I believe that can help settle the divide between both the consumer and the company.

[@arcade15x]

Adding the terminal, per-app volume, and improving the files app would go a long way to improving the iPad. That being said, today I use an iPad for most work and then remote into my Mac Studio for anything heaving like running code.

[@andomagic]

Great video, answered the missing piece of the puzzle which was the app store income for iOS/iPad OS vs MacOS. Makes perfect sense now.

[@thewatchmanstudios6257]

A subjective, well constructed piece without hyperbole. Is this still the internet? Well done.

[@TrasherBiner]

This man is how I imagine how Santa Claus looks out of Christmas season.

[@svenbjorn9700]

"But at the point where the iPad can do macbook things, why not just buy a laptop?" Because 2-in-1. The keyboard case allows you to quickly and EASILY switch between writing/drawing WITHOUT having to disconnect/transform anything. You just flip it upside down or rightside up depending on whether the current task requires the keyboard or the pencil. School and art are obvious use cases where switching between both modes constantly is useful.

[@bwgti]

Really the only cases. Digital artists seem to have few complaints about the iPad Pro. Sounds like it is an awesome tool for users in that field. It is just a very expensive Netflix viewer / Amazon shopping companion for the rest of us.

[@svenbjorn9700]

@@bwgti For the ipad per se, yeah there are limited strong uses cases. Hence this video and all the demand to change that.

[@camsta_]

the issue is that you always end up with compromises when trying to smash two product categories together. an iPad with macOS doesn't change how macOS is not optimised for touch, and how you're stuck with a smaller display and keyboard, while probably paying double for the entire thing. same reason why an "apple foldable" would just be thicker and less durable than an iphone and ipad separately. it just sounds to me like people want their ipad to be an ipad until they want it to be a mac, but without paying the money for the full experience of each product.

[@yuriblanc8446]

@@svenbjorn9700 they will make it for the pro if any windows 2in1 will take their margins

[@svenbjorn9700]

@@camsta_ You have a strong point in a world where literally nothing changes except that you put macos on an iPad-but nobody is asking for that and nobody expects hardware and software to just stay exactly how they are right now. Obviously software devs and apple would need to innovate. I'm saying it's possible and I want that. Many others are saying the same thing.

[@SaveMeAzathoth]

You eventually acknowledged that your simulation of running macos on the ipad using screen mirroring wasn't really the "macos on an ipad" experience so much as like attaching a wacom tablet. After years of using a wacom (non-screen) tablet as a full replacement for a mouse with my mac, I think that the "macos isn't optimized for touch" phrase that people love to repeat is pure bs. In the least, macos has a much better (third-party) stylus navigation experience than ipados does with the magic pencil.

[@TheVerge]

It had to be said! I'd like this more if it wasn't such an involved setup. Glad to hear that about Wacom working for you and replacing the mouse. Changing tools too often can trip me up when working. -OG

[@vlkhvan]

and now tell me how many people use Pencil to navigate their iPads. When people say "touch" in 99.9% cases they mean finger touch. And yes, Mac OS is not at all optimized for "touch".

[@SaveMeAzathoth]

@@vlkhvan The reality that the pencil is inexcusably substandard at replacing single-finger interactions certainly plays a role in people not using it for navigation. It's an obvious idea that using the pencil instead of your finger for more than drawing/notes would be good for both precision and reducing screen smudging... until you try it and obvious stuff doesn't work. I lump finger touch in with stylus because they are basically the same: direct point-and-click instead of motion-and-click. Sure finger touch adds multitouch interactions ... which macos is has been optimized for for years. But you're probably going for "fingers are thick and imprecise". In the real world though, macos click targets aren't especially small and people regularly deal with tiny touch targets on their phones/tablets.

[@SaHaRaSquad]

The main problem in my opinion is that Apple basically makes software development impossible on the ipad because ipad apps are not allowed to execute third-party code. They even have a special rule which allows development apps to download code, but not to execute it. So you have weird stuff like apps that execute your code but on a server, and the only real way to do actual development is with a browser and constant internet connection. It's just frustrating because there's absolutely no reason to limit it like this.

[@alexreynoldsjr]

I love iPad OS for casual stuff, and for drawing, but I’d also love to kick my larger, heavier laptop to the curb and carry one device. I want two things from Apple. 1. Make the files app on the mobile OS’s more stable at moving and copying a large number of files, and 2. Give us bootcamp on the iPad do I can decide what works best for me, and I can boot into the OS that works best for what I’m doing at that moment. I used it a lot on my Intel Mac and it was lovely. I tried virtualizing Windows, but it just didn’t feel as smooth and fast. Soooo, just fix Files and give us Bootcamp! Please Apple. Please.

[@polishtheday]

That would be nice.

[@leighrobinson]

Good points. Files app and the central design of opening the filesystem is fundamentally broken. When they opened up the filesystem and integrated it with iCloud they absolutely should have removed all the old APIs for apps to have their own personal store. It has created a stupid two tier system where some apps store their data like files and you can have ownership over them at the OS level to move about etc and others where you are locked in like an iPhone app of years gone by, or worse have built their business model around a monthly subscription for MacBook/iPad syncing - what on Earth...? It is utterly ridiculous. Removing the hypervisor from iOS/iPadOS tells you everything you need to know about your second recommendation...

[@ShoFuturistic]

Video Editor here. Adobe Premiere. Final Cut for iPad has a LOT of potential for a single user workflow. The secret weapon that people don't talk enough about is the Apple Pencil. I'd love to see more context sensitive shortcuts and deeper menu options added to the pencil. I prefer not to use the keyboard on my iPad because you might as well use a laptop. On the other hand, as a shortcut guy, I don't like drag and drop editing either. Solution: Apple Pencil. Audio apps like FERRITE allows users to map some VERY cool functionality to the pencil, and I really hope to see a future where I can place in an out points, insert and over write edits, markers, and more with a pinch and tap of the pencil. It would make editing very zippy. iPad won't replace a laptop for intense edits. The day that apple figures out cloud based storage and cloud projects/cloud editing, is the day we'll worry less about the FILES system on iPadOS.

[@TheVerge]

When I was using the pencil, I was so surprised that I can't map an "undo" function to the squeeze gesture. Cloud based editing is going to have to come a long way but I could see how it could help a lot. I'll have to check out Ferrite, thanks! -OG

[@d2suarez]

Have you tried Davinci? I have been using it and it is mostly amazing with a few serious frustrations

[@_sparrowhawk]

"Video Editor here. Adobe Premiere. Final Cut for iPad has a LOT of potential for a single user workflow." Not sure if you're serious or not. It would make your work much slower and you... do this for a living?

[@TheVerge]

Vjeran here! FCP for iPad, just like iPadOS, has serious potential... but we've been saying that for years. What's in front of us simply isn't ready.

[@ShoFuturistic]

@@_sparrowhawk For certain types of videos, the iPad could be amazing. Being untethered from your desk has lots of appeal. And no, before you can say, "That's what laptops are for", there's a difference. Final Cut Pro 2 for iPad does a lot of things right when it comes to being built around touch. The jogwheel is chef's kiss amazing. The Apple Pencil Pro is also pretty damn cool - in OTHER apps. Not FCP. Not yet. As for the single user workflow, editing on an iPad is fantastic - hypothetically - for making rough cuts /assembly editing. The problems are manifold, though, since there's really no way to go back and forth within a project between the desktop and the iPad version. This is why I suggested CLOUD Based editing, or at least the ability to store media and project files on the cloud so that you can pull down locally and work or link to the media. I think BlackMagic does something like this. What I was referring to regarding speeding up HOW I work was all about interface. I'm *not* a drag and drop editor, but I also don't see the point of using a keyboard on an iPad. The Pencil Pro is like a SUPER Magic Mouse in concept. It has multiple pressure sensitive options between the screen and the pencil itself, that has the potential for far more functionality than just right clicking on your traditional mouse. Disregarding the file structure issues of iPadOS, once you have all of your media local, I can see a flow when you've sorted all of your footage, you've scrubbing though source, tap-squeeze for in point, squeeze again for out point, tap to drop into timeline. Squeeze pencil to pull up a submenu to change the command from insert to overwrite edit. That sort of brisk, continuous flow... iPad is comfortable. I've had gigs on my laptop (in Premiere) where I wished that I could leave my desk and scrub through media on the couch. Or, as is often the case, pull media from a variety of sources for B-roll. For example, like pulling from KZbin. A chore on the iPad, but easy on desktop. So many small but mounting 'inconveniences' with iPad editing that aren't insurmountable, but restricted only by Apple's desire to keep iPad distinct from MacOS. This was a fantastic video that explained the differences - along with Apple's financial approach - VERY clearly. Great video!

[@amitinpune]

Why cant I access my Mac screen remotely from an iPAD? Is there something similar to RDP? Basically, being able to access your Mac from anywhere in the world through your iPAD would be a great value prop for iPAD.

[@AnonVideos]

You most certainly can, Screens and others have done this for years. I regularly use my old iPad Pro to remote control my MBP and it’s a good experience. I also use a keyboard with that setup.

[@MashedzFruitz]

This is a cool idea

[@phantasyphotography3813]

Would it be possible to have a bridge for mac apps to run better on ipad? The issue is getting developers to write the same level of application for ipad just like the mac. I would think that there should be a way for developers to add optimizations for ipad in their mac apps. Kinda like how in web development we can render something more simple for smaller screen sizes, just render something more user friendly for ipad then have the "translation bridge" run the mac optimized app on ipad.

[@matipousi8180]

If we're talking about virtualization, the logical thing is emulating iPad OS, and running Mac OS natively

[@Randalldan]

This is one of the best tech/apple videos I have ever seen. Direct, funny, I would say unbiased and willing to ask the difficult questions without coming off offensive. Great video verge and Owen!

[@PCGUYSMiami]

Dual boot make it optional. Or sell an Mac iPad separate model

[@Spoonfed78]

More and more videos of recreating the wheel as if other brands don't exist 😂

[@EnnVP]

The problem is that it's not just complex tasks that ipad struggles with. It is still lacking basic file management features. You still can't use it to update your Music library, you still need Windows or a Mac for that.

[@gltovar]

i mean the fact that this pro device cannot make its own applications should be a sign…

[@gothicanimeangel96]

@@gltovar the fact that this pro device has a severely buggy file management system is insane

[@ashtonmiller-z1n]

blame the cellphone laws and relgations for that by the way any mlbe device that needs to acces public cellhppone servaces simply are not alwoed to ahve acces to anything that can tamper and mess with the cellhpnoe servaces data encrotpn and drm bacly. thus why its so limtied

[@gh0stcassette]

@@ashtonmiller-z1n Then how come I can buy a linux phone and connect it to a 5g network? Or, for that matter, why can I connect my rooted Pixel to cell networks?

[@jessicagulino5320]

Great video. Love Owen’s style and humor. Owen, please make more of these!!!!

[@06howea1]

Why the hell did they remove hyperV?

[@LaVergineDOrecchie]

Well if virtualization is a solution, considering that Apple had to change its policies and allow third party stores in Europe, could there be a chance for someone to create and distribute a MacOS virtual app through an alt store?

[@gltovar]

that person would be my hero. Though running a modern distro of linux would be a good start too

[@peterur]

The problem is not the OS itself... it's when using a few apps or the browser, just all a full mac os browser experience for Figma, GSuite and Gmail would be a HUGE upgrade!!

[@p5rsona]

it actually is the os itself too. have you tried using it with a mouse or connected to a monitor? most basic stuff like windows and file management is beyond laughable.

[@PragMero]

you are begging for crums while windows/linux had tablet support years, average apple user, I have a minisforum V3 tablet with Fedora Linux + Gnome installed, I could use Davinci Resolve, GIMP, Blender and Krita, all the creation software that I could need. But still apple users begged for usb-c functionality on 2023 and argue that Lightning is better than an open standard. Stockholm syndrome has many forms, and this is one of them. yuck

[@Proteus846]

@@p5rsonaFile management on iOS is just fine. On the list of things I can’t do on my iPad Pro that I can do on my MacBook Pro or Mac Studio, file management doesn’t make the list at all. Even without a keyboard and trackpad/mouse, it is intuitive and functional; with those peripherals, it gets far better. It’s different, sure, and I do still prefer the Mac experience over that of iOS on iPad and especially iPhone, but the Files app is a great feature that I use often.

[@p5rsona]

@@Proteus846 good for you, now go back to watching cat videos on your $2k ipad pro granpa.

[@IceBlueLugia]

File management is fine on iPadOS. The biggest issue is the atrocious mouse support

[@MichaelDowds1986]

What curls.

[@JohnnyBroker76]

Best explanation about the iPad OS vs Mac OS on iPad I have seen. Love the format, flow and editing of the video. You are not left with any questions and not once looking to skip chapters. Looking forward for more videos from you

[@mathisbodin2292]

The reason I’d want macos on iPad os specifically to install program not on the AppStore so I understand apple point of view

[@_sparrowhawk]

Like what for example?

[@mathisbodin2292]

@@_sparrowhawk mostly emulators i guess, which is partially resolved now, but also games through steam and stuff for example, the iPad is way too powerful to only play mobile games, and it could work really well with a controller or a keyboard and mouse

[@vethum]

I was buying iPads before buying MacBook Air. I will never buy an iPad again.

[@Locutus]

Cool. See ya.

[@oopsallluke]

I don’t necessarily want macOS on my iPad, I just lament the fact that like-for-like software is feature poor on iPad. Why does Apple Music on Mac have a breadth of granular controls and iPad doesn’t? Hearing Craig be so patronising on the subject actually makes me angrier than had he not said anything at all. Maybe it’s just facing the truth of the matter, they have no argument it’s just plain and simple anti-consumerism.

[@DomainObject]

Couldn’t agree more. Hearing what Craig and Jaws had to say on the subject was sickening.

[@LxrdCreature]

3:07 who else thought he was gonna throw it 😂😂

[@ssamani24]

Developer here. I very painfully empathize with Riley’s position. I have a M1 Mac Mini (and it still runs like a champ) and an iPad Pro. I made it work for a while with some workarounds… I turned my Mac mini into a “mini” server and would use an SSH client app on my iPad to remote into it and use NeoVim as my main code editor but at some point I just needed to be able to get some programming done on the go and take full advantage of Mac’s Unix environment. So I too bought an M2 MacBook Air weeks before the M3 was announced. 🙃

[@BoccaccioAC]

I thing Apple is not thinking about developers or office peoples when they refer to „Pros“. They are referring to creative artists, drawing, writing novels etc. No one who needs multiple (Microsoft Office) Apps open simultaneously. The iPad is just not designed for those people.

[@uncgaron]

Also, total BS answer from Craig. It really was, “because we don’t wanna.”

[@bobweiram6321]

Craig made a lot of sense. Microsoft tried to merge the desktop and mobile UI with Windows 8, and they lost the entire mobile market as a result.

[@06howea1]

Simple answer is Apple will never cannibalise Macbook sales.

[@erisium6988]

simple answer is Microsoft, samsung, google doesn't have better tablets than current - even old before m sires cpus tablets, so why apple would lose money just to still have same amount of sells, also why would they make tablet like laptop - better idea would be for u guys MacBook with oled and pen...

[@Adamtendo_player_1]

No, the simple is macOS is just not feasible on an iPad.

[@sleepless51]

I thought maybe macPad could be a good option to compete with the Surface Pro series. iPad is such a waste of money and computing resources.

[@KarlRock]

Great video! I was wondering this. Thank you

[@unikkkkkkk]

Other than video editing, one might want to do programming on iPad device, it's another valid use case for professional work on iPad Pro, which is not possible on iPad OS

[@MrJHate]

People should really stop giving apple their money.

[@adayexpired6370]

Eh, better than giving Microsoft my money… it’s like our presidential candidates… there’s no good choice. Which would you rather tolerate.

[@HaconElias-kd8uh]

Why? Why do you people still not understand there is a reason why 90% of gen Z use an iphone and why in the US macOS is close to overtaking windows Those arent just stupid people. With apple you know youre getting high quality stuff and the convenience is huge. Most people just want an experience that just works. Thats what happens with apple I used to be vehemently anti apple. Eventually got an iPhone, then an iPad, then Airpods and now after 12 years of using Windows and being anti Mac I'm getting a MacBook pro. There is a reason many people are making the switch.

[@Michael-ur5qb]

More like people should stop buying the Pro models and maybe they would actually make it a Pro. The pro series fanboys fight to the grave to try and convince people it’s a pro device but for who? A very niche sliver of graphic artists. It doesn’t even offer full office suites for writer’s. Most Pro Ipad users have a Mac. They really don’t need to spend the extra $500-800 over the Ipad and Ipad Air

[@leisti]

@@adayexpired6370 By the way, I use Linux.

[@lawrencemanning]

Had nothing to do with Apple until 2006. Always needed a machine that was fantastic for my passion and career, programming. Amigas in the 90s followed by Linux. Then I got an iBook G4 which was absolutely shocking in its greatness. Until about l0 years ago they were massively ahead software wise. Now they are only “better”. macOS hasn’t had any real work in years, which is sad. I still use a MacBook (M1 etc) as my portable as the hardware is fantastic; the software not so much. My next portable will probably be a high end x86 (or RISC V?) laptop running Linux. It’s sad, but Apple has abandoned the technical user, focusing on consumers who dabble in content creation.

[@pranjaljagtap8398]

The detailed journalism in the video is incredible❤

[@gltovar]

I was frustrated by the focus on the pencil as the only import source. Having the tablet be a dual use item in two contexts, one where you use the mouse and keyboard, and one where you used it like an ipad are equally important in professional work flows. The fact that there isn’t a MBA11, the ipad pro 11 + keyboard/trackpad COULD be the replacement for that mobile formfactor.

[@barrupa]

It's far more profitable to sell iPads with built in keyboards and extra batteries (and MacOS) over actually making the iPad useful. It's borderline stupid to even question it. An iPad would easily run OSX while being cheaper and a more versatile product, the only reason Apple won't do it is because Macs have much higher profit margins.

[@sashabeep]

I just remembered the macpad project. They just putting touchscreen, remove the topcase and reverse the screen upwards in the same case. Whatever it will be called, i don't need the bottom part of my macbook 98% of time. Why not?

[@Ded-Ede]

3:26 Actually this how I Mac compute and I love it. I use my iPad Pro as the main and only display for my headless M1 Mac mini with wireless sidecar via VNC. I wish Apple made this an easier out of the box connection. For example, a simple solution would be in Mission Control on the iPad Pro, I should be able to tap Screen Mirroring and “PULL” the Mac mini “screen” to my iPad if it’s on the same iCloud account and network. To start using my current setup, first I had to connect my Mac mini to my HDMI TV since I don’t have a monitor and I had to connect a mouse and a keyboard, but once set up to do all the necessary setup, I no longer need the mouse, keyboard or display to operate my Mac. I just launch VNC on my iPad Pro, type in my password and my Mac mini display shows up on my iPad and I can do all my my computing I need to. Luckily i don’t need to do anything pro and require fine touch point editing. I wouldn’t mind if to get MacOS on the iPad Pro, Apple choose this route, wired or wireless as A Main use case instead of only as an alternate use case as it is now. Give us faster 1:1 response time. When connected, the Mac OS and the iPadOS merge into one cohesive experience instead of a mirroring experience, doubling the processing while exchanging data, in a synchronize experience. I’m sure this is hard to do because a risk of data loss for unexpected Disconnection either wire or Wireless. But I’m sure Apple can make it a great user experience and they will get the sale of a Mac computer like the Mac mini or the Mac studio or whatever and the sale of iPad Pro for people who want to compute this way. An individual Mac experience as it is now, an individual iPadOS experience as it is now, and a new unique combine computing experience for those who want macOS on iPad Pro hardware. I’ve suggested this use case in Apple feedback for years, but it seems to be falling in deaf ears, so I guess the more people who request this type of computing experience of a combine macOS and iPad hardware experience would have to file their own feedback suggestion also.

[@ziggystardog]

Can we have MacOS on iPad? No, we have MacOS at home.

[@CJTheReal]

Kid in ipad ad: What's a computer? Everyone: the thing you're gonna need to buy if you want to do anything productive

[@JayRodge]

Love this video!

[@melvinmeju5970]

Great video! Top work Verge team

[@GlitterGuru]

The new Surface Pro with the X Elite chip is looking like a no brainer

[@kephalopod3054]

The iPad does not have a mini-jack for audio, only the lower quality (tinny sound) audio via USB.

[@poyrikkanal]

Get a 2017-2018 iPad Pro, they perform just as good as a 9th gen iPad or 10th gen iPad but the pros have 120hz screen with a 3.5mm mic+audio jack

[@allwynmendes]

I don't want my iPad to become a MacBook. But at the same time, I totally understand people who would like to have dev and enterprise tools on the iPad. At the moment, I see both the products weirdly competing to sunset each other, with the iPad holding the lead in some sense with the M4 chip.

[@Wannes_]

With all the accessories, it IS a MacBook - and even more expensive

[@chriscoop]

I would love to see Apple take a page from the Samsung playbook and allow the iPad to load MacOS when you connect an external monitor, the same way Samsung devices run DeX. There's no reason the iPad couldn't support 2 external monitors, keyboard, and mouse. The iPad could turn into either a huge touchpad or split the screen to be a touchpad and shortcut buttons similar to the touchbar on Macbook Pro. Then disconnect everything and it turns back into a regular iPad running iPadOS.

[@DifferentAverage]

Trading in my m4 iPad for a bigger iPhone when it comes out. WWDC was a huge fail for iPadOS and is still too limited

[@cyanoure]

1:13 this sound blew up my ears

[@RealLaone]

Should make it that once you attach the keyboard the OS changes and allows Mac features. Windows had a great vision tbh.

[@user-qo4ez7uo2f]

Short Answer: They don't want to loose big money chunk from MacBook

[@Connor-Colyer]

The iPad Pro solely exists to act as the final rung on the price ladder to a Mac. “1800 on an iPad? - just get a MacBook Pro!”

[@DoctorNemmo]

... without a touchscreen. And that's why I bought a Surface.

[@Connor-Colyer]

@@DoctorNemmo 😂😂😭😭😂😂 surfaces are utter e-waste. You’ve gotta be hitting the 2 grand mark for a studio that is still barely capable of doing anything, at which point you’re better off getting a MacBook air and an iPad Air together.

[@DoctorNemmo]

@@Connor-Colyer That sounds a lot like you never used a Surface. The newest version (SP11) starts at $999. That's a lot more computer than its iPad equivalent. (And I say this as an iPad user).

[@Connor-Colyer]

@@DoctorNemmo I had a surface pro, for 999, it was a total scam. It could basically only run word. Bear in mind that the MacBook Air starts at the same price and is probably the best sub grand computer on the market. Microsoft have nothing on the M series.

[@DoctorNemmo]

@@Connor-Colyer 'There's something wrong with that computer if it only can run word. I've installed Visual Studio in mine and it works.

[@chriscarley]

Not enough people ask “Who would a thermally constrained Mac with a baseline M-series chip” be for? Probably because the answer is “extremely casual computer users”, which is a demographic iPadOS already serves.

[@DomainObject]

“extremely casual”… Nope. Many pros, including myself, use M-series MacBook Airs for professional tasks. Are they top of the line professional? No, but that doesn’t mean they can’t be used for many pro work flows. The iPad Pros are essentially the same as the MacBook Air from a computational capability perspective. As a result, they could also be used for many pro work flows. This is not an engineering limitation. It’s a business go to market self-imposed limitation. Don’t get it twisted.

[@matt5721]

​@@DomainObjectyou can be a professional worker and a casual computer user. A MacBook air is baby's first computer in every single way

[@Leerill]

The most pro function I've gotten from my iPad Pro is having a convenient second screen for my MacBook.

[@TheKomenter]

*"You just do what you can and have as much fun as possible"*

[@maikvdz251]

The iPad is ridiculous in everyday life. Extremely powerful hardware for Netflix.

[@KicksonAcapulco13-no5rd]

Not always - 90% of my real work can be done on iPad. Sure, not everybody have that comfort. I would say that iPad's are MacBook Lite.

[@beingboston]

Not being able to run a desktop OS on my M2 iPad Pro is really making me wonder if I could just replace my tablet with a MS Surface ARM tablet. but... windows.

[@Proteus846]

Are you using a keyboard and trackpad/mouse? When I undock my M2 iPad Pro from its Magic Keyboard, it feels a lot more like a standard iPad. (Maybe an iPad Air) When the keyboard case is attached, it feels much closer to a Mac than a typical iPad. While I definitely don’t want to move from Mac to exclusively compute on iPad, the iPad Pro in a Magic Keyboard case can do most tasks I need it for during the day. Include the Apple Pencil, and it can even do many things the Mac cannot. For most users, an iPad - especially a docked iPad Pro - can replace a MacBook. The group of people for whom it cannot is smaller than you’d think; remember that the people who care enough to watch videos on these topics are often the kind of users who need/want more advanced technology, and therefore complain about iPads not running macOS and similar minor gripes. It’s not really a problem.

[@NCHLTII]

Linux is always out there

[@bpurkapi]

unfortunately, even the surface arm version is too heavy in tablet mode and windows is still pretty awful (even after years of feature updates) when using touch or pen

[@gltovar]

the closes I am at is using a GPD win max 2, but would much rather it be an ipad pro 4 that could run MacOS

[@beingboston]

@@bpurkapi true, but at least i know what i'm getting. instead of just wishing

[@brontiago]

All you tech nerds don’t know what you want 😂. Remember when Microsoft tried this with Windows 8 and everyone hated it? Why on Earth would Apple waste their money and do the same?

[@wildwestmt67]

I would just love Preview on my iPad! I have Preview Mini, but it’s not the same.

[@unorthodoxbox]

For me I don’t feel I need MacOS on the iPad, but I would like quality of life stuff that is the norm on computers both Mac and Windows. Examples: Being able to use a command prompt, for those who’d like to program, an an app for that, and a files manager application that is comparable to its macOS counterpart. Best part of all is since they have an AppStore you don’t have to have this installed by default. For those who want their tablet to just be a tablet, don’t have to install them. For those who want their tablet to just be a little more laptop like, install and your away, as long as you can accept the compromises that come.

[@chrismalone449]

Ergonomic hell. Say goodbye to your back

[@_sparrowhawk]

Exactly. Him hunched over his laptop with a pen is idiotic.

[@gltovar]

I just want it to be an OPTIONAL laptop. disable the touchscreen for mac os, I dont care. I just want a replacement for the MBA11 and if I am already carrying around an ipad even better to merge it into 1 machine.

[@RainA1472]

Great video!!

[@dibhayden]

Ipad is just a toy to watch youtube. Not a real computer. I will buy the Microsoft surface… that is a real computer in tablet mode

[@bardz0sz]

Only gripe with the ipad, it cuts the video for whoever I'm having a videocall with when I switch to other apps, also using stage manager

[@gaba922]

Your saying that it’s not gonna be a good experience which is true but you totally forget to mention that they can adjust MacOS interface to be iPad friendly

[@manzup3r]

is this a joke?

[@creativetechdude]

Yes

[@gltovar]

SINCE M1 IPAD I HAVE BEEN FUMING THAT APPLE HASNT ALLOWED THIS