The Walking Dead World Beyond- SUNSET PROTOCOL: Military Order to Terminate Citizens & Hostiles

[@Crackshotsteph]

It wouldn't surprise me if the people who decided to give those orders are still alive and are within the CRM Chain of Command.

[@zidanerizalalghifaryalghif3248]

the marine that killed her platoon is the daughter of elisabeth right she is probably gonna be a CRM soldier

[@CC-8891]

I spent six years in the US Army. We are taught that we have a duty to disobey immoral orders. No matter the situation, trained combat soldiers would be picking off the infected, not gunning down everything. We have thousands of hours of training with firearms.

[@TWDExplained]

Not sure what the higher ups would do in a crazy situation like this one but I agree with you about most of the soldiers and on the ground military. - just a question though in your opinion - if widespread disobey of a immoral order happens in real life, what would the ripple effects be on an active operation?

[@CC-8891]

@@TWDExplained it depends on the operation. In this case I dont see them killing non bitten civilians. The higher ups may be glad the soldiers disobeyed or they might really believe in the order. There could be punishment , but you can't punish ALL your troops. If the troops were to win against the dead they would need their vehicles. For shelter and as a mobile fighting positions. If the hatches are locked you can't get into an armored humvee or Styker, tank or Bradley fighting vehicle from the outside. I see a brigade size element of Abrams tanks, Bradley's, and Humvees with Mk. 19 automatic chain fed grenade launchers, M2 .50 caliber heavy machine guns, TOW missiles, absolutely shredding a crowd of shambling walkers. Never mind what a forward observer could do to a crowd of walkers with a precision air strike.

[@shawnlake1491]

Yeah I dont think ucmj applies here. The country was falling. They were losing ground, equipment, people. And every civilian that dies becomes a hostile. The government knew how bad it was. They had to worry about the greater good of the country. I think 99% of military personnel would have followed orders given the situation and tbh Huck should have followed order. There was bigger picture at play. The government did try to protect civilians and it failed. Atlanta, the FEMA camps, fort benning, the cdc, firesign stadium and all the makeshift police and military camps, safe zones evac points and D.C all fell. Then Operation cobalt began. They were desperate and didnt really have a choice.

[@randyklein9649]

Orders from "higher ups" to wipe out civilians doesn't sound like "lawful orders" to me......

[@patronsaintofswitchbladefi2944]

@@CC-8891 In my experience as an 11c Infantry mortars I've only seen Tacp or CCT call in precision air . Our FO's were highly effective at finding & ranging target's for 81 or 120mm mortar systems or artillery big guns. However I do know FO's can become FAC or Forward Air Controller's though I think that's an entirely different MOS but I could be wrong

[@mattsretrogaming]

Like Negan said people are an asset so the military killing civilians just made more zombies and therefore they overwhelmed themselves

[@TWDExplained]

We did see them shooting doctors in S2 of TWD, but they then walked up and shot each one in the head. - but you are probably correct - many killings made more walkers

[@craigwallace4809]

Yeah but when the soldiers were shooting the doctors and nurses they were set upon by walkers and the first guy bitten started just popping off rounds all into his comrades then some nurses and doctors and soldiers started turning too.

[@TWDExplained]

@@craigwallace4809 true

[@Bloodhound46]

@@craigwallace4809 he didn’t get bitten he got grabbed as a result he panicked which made him go haywire and unloading a round into one soldier killing him instantly shortly after the gun shots attracted a horde of walkers which broke through the double doors ultimately causing them to be over run however only three soldiers went down while the others managed to break free one which walked into Ricks hospital room which had the order to probably kill Rick but was rushed out because the hospital was and the military checkpoint was being overrun

[@WayneAllenSallee]

@@TWDExplained In FEAR, there was an episode where the Guard was headed to a hospital--the driver talking about wanting to get back to his family in San Diego--and when the extraction attempt (?) failed, they were told that the @$$hole sergeant was dead. I agree that it was a bad idea, going with what @craig wallace says about the soldier Shane saw getting bit.

[@stankyface5303]

Gotta say this was the first world beyond episode that was actually interesting

[@thegeneral19]

Hopefully a start

[@TheOnlyElle.]

I must agree.. most of W.B has been utter trash. It's like a teenage melodrama, not a zombie apocalypse show *eyeroll* lol

[@Tempsdg]

@@TheOnlyElle. only character that kept me watching was huck.

[@denisestephens1685]

The military was killing people at the hospital, when ricks friend tried to get him out of the hospital, in the first season episode 1.

[@T2G-DJT]

Remember the guy who Chris was talking worth in season 1 of fear the walking dead. The military killed them too

[@mrsdixon3524]

Yep and Karma got them their gun fire drew in the dead and killed them all

[@lastswordfighter]

Why did they waste all of that ammo on body shots on the terminal patients then have one soldier with a 9mm shot them in the head? At the most one maybe two rounds to the head or neck to either kill or cripple them.

[@joejose8433]

@@T2G-DJT hey man the government was in collapse they had to stop the infection

[@weaselwolf8425]

@@lastswordfighter but fuckery. Although if the other troops didn't get the head shot then a follow up makes more sense.

[@superyamky]

Sunset Protocal: This is more like Order 66 but it's for all of the people there

[@TheVFXbyArt]

Coolgamerguest_YT Still better than order 69.... and less sore...

[@mannyperez6096]

I only have operations tyranny one of clone Corporation security forces and task force and military army, royal guards it means terminates government forces military agencies, cdc and law enforcement police and hero part government corruption all clones corporation followed orders

[@pmaney2003]

Honestly I think that “cobalt” was the command code to initiate evacuation of all U.S troops in all the hot spots/ large urban areas, and “Sunset protocol” was the second part in which the Military was orders to cleanse all infected areas. That makes sense to me at least.

[@warszawianek]

I think the napalming might have been part of the sunset protocol. It got enacted in the middle of the night and it might symbolize the sunset.

[@yulimarhurtado6060]

En realidad si fue así, cuando Daniel secuestra al Soldado Adams, este lo confiesa! "Cobalto es un código de comando para la evacuación de la base de Los Angeles"

[@WayneAllenSallee]

Hope this makes sense, but a protocol is just one of several plans, like Plan A was something else and if that failed then Plan B would already be set up. Sunset Protocol might have even been Plan B or Plan C, everything is very compartmentalized. SP came down to "Shoot to kill everyone" but likely there was more thought put into it at first. Also, this could have been a thing that only applied to where they were at (the closest military base isn't anywhere near Omaha, so they might have been deployed there), like the scene Shane saw could have been XXX Protocol as in kill people in the hospitals, whereas Sunset involved civilians not in hospital surroundings. Operation Cobalt would be the one thing, bombing every city with napalm. But protocols are compartmentalized, so Huck's unit would likely only been aware of Sunset.Orders for other units to go to hospitals (like Shane witnessed) could have happened simultaneously, or even before or after. No idea if I over-explained it. Myself, I always think Plan A, Plan B, Plan C, all ready at the same time.

[@Raven-vu6lr]

Correct me if im wrong, but the national guard is mostly comprised of your everyday people and volunteer soldiers right? If u remember in season 3 of TWD, the national guard unit with heli said they had a refugee camp. So maybe the national guard refused to kill civilians and instead ran the camps.Therefore causing a conflict between the ng and the actual us army, aka the bog tape. The army stepped in when the ng didnt carry out cobalt/sunset A side note, maybe sunset protocal is the term used by the marines, because under cobalt we only saw the us army in ftwd.

[@EmirJYanshu]

That is a interesting theory. That would make sense

[@matteoclementi]

This is what I was thinking too and maybe what AL documented was about a National Guard vs Military fight when NG see what Military were doing.

[@Sam-xr8ne]

@@matteoclementi this episode has to tie into the bog.

[@nicklazarus1814]

Didn’t al in FTWD say the national guard and the army were shooting at each other?

[@Komyeta]

Sunset Protocol is not used by the USMC only, it's the entire US Military, and it's coming from CENTCOM/Pentagon

[@superyamky]

If they makes more flashbacks of the military during the outbreak then the walking dead universe will be saved

[@TWDExplained]

hoo-rah!

[@Komyeta]

Now we need US Fighter/Bomber Pilot Flashback during Op.Cobalt

[@trojano80]

@@Komyeta That'd be awesome tbh

[@HaXaW5150]

This is the kind of stuff I think about when people start talking about Civil War breaking out lately.

[@doelmo5069]

You do not have to follow a " unlawful order" in the US military.

[@TWDExplained]

right.....but in these circumstances was this a lawful order? The guy said if anyone refuses to follow the order they will get arrested and brought up on charges.

[@kidbach]

There are mechanisms in place, that when you feel an order is questionable, either you leave the area or stand aside till you get back from the battlefield to Request Mast on that matter. USMC General Orders: 3rd General Order: "Report all violations of orders I am instructed to enforce." You will have a written log to keep track of all events that occurred while on watch. Record everything, but report anyone not following the rules.

[@Sam-xr8ne]

@@TWDExplained arrested and taken where though? Everything fell. F it. You have to do the right thing.

[@Sam-xr8ne]

@@kidbach the system was already broken and she knew it.

[@blondesense1708]

@@kidbach I totally agree, I was just watching the old movie Outbreak about a deadly disease that is spread in the US by a 🐒 and the military are ordered to bomb the diseased and I was yelling this at the tv screen through the whole movie while just the hero refuses to do it, however in an apocalyptic situation, those options aren’t really available.

[@prodigalson6166]

Not only was Huck in the right; there would have been at least twice as many Hucks as there were military personnel following blatant unlawful orders. As a veteran of the US Army and National Guard the scenario of US troops blindly following unlawful orders on that scale is absurd and insulting. Let us look at the facts... 1. The Mission of the US Military to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States of America, which includes the People For Whom the Constitution exists. 2. Such actions as shooting non-combatants, civilians, is unlawful according to both the UCMJ and the Geneva Convention. Article 90 of the UCMJ is specifically designed for lawful orders and such orders as firing upon civilians, in court case after court case, are easily proven to be unlawful. 3. Such widespread orders is not only a war crime but is more serious crime against humanity. Surprisingly Wikipedia got this right. I quote "Unlike war crimes, crimes against humanity can be committed during peace or war.[2] They are not isolated or sporadic events, but are part either of a government policy (although the perpetrators need not identify themselves with this policy) or of a wide practice of atrocities tolerated or condoned by a government or a de facto authority. War crimes, murder, massacres, dehumanization, genocide, ethnic cleansing, deportations, unethical human experimentation, extrajudicial punishments including summary executions, use of weapons of mass destruction, state terrorism or state sponsoring of terrorism, death squads, kidnappings and forced disappearances, use of child soldiers, unjust imprisonment, enslavement, torture, rape, political repression, racial discrimination, religious persecution and other human rights abuses may reach the threshold of crimes against humanity if they are part of a widespread or systematic practice." 4. Every branch of the military has a strict code of ethics, which includes countermanding unlawful orders. I post these ethics as they exist within the US Army and National Guard: yes the US Army and National Guard follow the same code of ethics to the letter. WARRIOR ETHOS I Will Always Place the Mission First I Will Never Accept Defeat I Will Never Quit I Will Never Leave a Fallen Comrade THE SOLDIER'S CREED I am an American Soldier. I am a warrior and a member of a team. I serve the people of the United States, and live the Army Values. I will always place the mission first. I will never accept defeat. I will never quit. I will never leave a fallen comrade. I am disciplined, physically and mentally tough, trained and proficient in my warrior tasks and drills. I always maintain my arms, my equipment and myself. I am an expert and I am a professional. I stand ready to deploy, engage, and destroy, the enemies of the United States of America in close combat. I am a guardian of freedom and the American way of life. I am an American Soldier. THE ARMY VALUES Loyalty Bear true faith and allegiance to the U.S. Constitution, the Army, your unit and other Soldiers. Bearing true faith and allegiance is a matter of believing in and devoting yourself to something or someone. A loyal Soldier is one who supports the leadership and stands up for fellow Soldiers. By wearing the uniform of the U.S. Army you are expressing your loyalty. And by doing your share, you show your loyalty to your unit. Duty Fulfill your obligations. Doing your duty means more than carrying out your assigned tasks. Duty means being able to accomplish tasks as part of a team. The work of the U.S. Army is a complex combination of missions, tasks and responsibilities - all in constant motion. Our work entails building one assignment onto another. You fulfill your obligations as a part of your unit every time you resist the temptation to take "shortcuts" that might undermine the integrity of the final product. Respect Treat people as they should be treated. In the Soldier's Code, we pledge to "treat others with dignity and respect while expecting others to do the same." Respect is what allows us to appreciate the best in other people. Respect is trusting that all people have done their jobs and fulfilled their duty. And self-respect is a vital ingredient with the Army value of respect, which results from knowing you have put forth your best effort. The Army is one team and each of us has something to contribute. Selfless Service Put the welfare of the nation, the Army and your subordinates before your own. Selfless service is larger than just one person. In serving your country, you are doing your duty loyally without thought of recognition or gain. The basic building block of selfless service is the commitment of each team member to go a little further, endure a little longer, and look a little closer to see how he or she can add to the effort. Honor Live up to Army values. The nation's highest military award is The Medal of Honor. This award goes to Soldiers who make honor a matter of daily living - Soldiers who develop the habit of being honorable, and solidify that habit with every value choice they make. Honor is a matter of carrying out, acting, and living the values of respect, duty, loyalty, selfless service, integrity and personal courage in everything you do. Integrity Do what's right, legally and morally. Integrity is a quality you develop by adhering to moral principles. It requires that you do and say nothing that deceives others. As your integrity grows, so does the trust others place in you. The more choices you make based on integrity, the more this highly prized value will affect your relationships with family and friends, and, finally, the fundamental acceptance of yourself. Personal Courage Face fear, danger or adversity (physical or moral). Personal courage has long been associated with our Army. With physical courage, it is a matter of enduring physical duress and at times risking personal safety. Facing moral fear or adversity may be a long, slow process of continuing forward on the right path, especially if taking those actions is not popular with others. You can build your personal courage by daily standing up for and acting upon the things that you know are honorable. 5. Lastly, there would be a lot more officers and ncos up the chain of command who would flat-out reject such orders as unlawful. Overall Panic among military personnel would be almost non-existent, especially among combat veterans, who would be grateful for the slow movement of the infected: in fact many would laugh about the danger of the infected as easy targets. The only thing that would keep the military from containing it is the Widespread Panic among the civilian population; resulting in a high infection rate and limited Supply, as a result of factories closing and Distributors being unable to deliver supplies due to conditions.

[@evanboyd1541]

Love the chuckle about chain link fences being bulletproof. Another is that no soldiers thought hey we have humvees with M2s on them. How about I position one near the oncoming horde and use the heavy weapon against them.

[@beaver6d9]

The classic trolley problem: kill one to save many. That is a very walking dead dilemma. I don't envy Huck in that situation, thankfully I'll likely never have to make that choice. I doubt she's a spy after this episode.

[@TWDExplained]

yeah, hope I am never in one of those situations

[@Sam-xr8ne]

it's a study in morals in ethics. Here's something more complicated. What if the one person was someone you knew and loved? Would you kill a loved one to save 5 INNOCENT lives?

[@ericasharp1872]

@@Sam-xr8ne Huck may have cared for that guy in the flashback. But With how he treated her at times. I doubt she loved him.

[@Tamsin53]

I'm seriously interested in this series now despite the fact how it started...

[@gisone6403]

This is good, Interesting Things in TWD Universe.

[@matteoclementi]

Absolutely agreed

[@superyamky]

Yeah i hope they will make flr us a flashback

[@marco117sw]

Although technically the National Guard is considered a part of the Federal government (which is y they can be deployed overseas), they mostly respond to local jurisdictions at the State level. However, the USMC is strictly Federal and has no local "State" jurisdictions other than the Reserves. Furthermore, the constitution prohibits the deployment of Federal troops domestically unless authorized by an executive order (like the President of the United States enacting the Insurrection Act) or the Governor/s of said State/s requesting Federal support in a state of emergency. All in all, Sunset Protocol may be the Federal equivalent of Operation: Cobalt. Because the show is vague in terms of how these orders are carried out from unit to unit, it's almost impossible to tell what they all mean. Without further details, we may never find out why these orders were interpreted differently between units, much less military branches. The Army/NG from TWD in Atlanta executed civilians and used napalm. The Army/NG from LA were simply abandoning the civilians for dead and pulling out without them (though the Cpl did mention executions during interrogation) and proceeded to use napalm throughout the Western Seaboard (though contrary to what FTWD may have u believe, Portland survived as confirmed in World Beyond).

[@ronniewestherly3435]

The spotter in sniper two man teams are the commander of the two.

[@Bloodhound46]

In case you didn’t know which is which Soldiers wear the foliage green digital Universal camouflage pattern while Marines wear the digital woodland marpat camouflage pattern or the desert Digital camouflage.

[@TWDExplained]

that comment almost reads like a physics equation haha ....I may have to google to see pictures haha (I don't doubt your comment, just need to visualize what is being said lol)

[@johnwest5957]

foliage green... that's a polite way to describe UCP hahaha

[@nef7347]

Her taking them out the way she did was powerful..marines do not go against themselves it goes against everything they are..I totally get this character after this episode..I truly thought she was just going through some kitty situation..that’s a hell no now

[@TWDExplained]

Do you think she is a spy for CRM?

[@nef7347]

@@TWDExplained i feel that she has more skeletons in her closet but this episode did show that she isn’t one,in my opinion..I do agree with the national guard going against the army though

[@ericasharp1872]

@@TWDExplained I don't think Huck is a spy. But i do think she knows more than she lets on. She may have had a run in with them before. Huck was near death when the Colony found her. Mabe she was running from a group of CRM soldiers.

[@DDBAA24]

You get orders (the where, the what) , there are protocols(rules of engagement) for following the orders in the event there is an unseen change of circumstance. Sundown protocol just changes the rules of engagement , in this instance they've been authorized to continue but now you shoot anything moving without an m4 + stars&bars. Huck chose the opposite , if you put it in terms of cause and effect protocols just tell you what to do if 'X' happens. They couldn't contain it, that was their orders, protocol changed when they failed the orders or mission never changed. Hope that helps.

[@TWDExplained]

Thanks Steve! Good info!

[@spartan078ben]

Just once, I think we'd all like to see a zombie flick where the military responds realistically. Personally, I don't think this kind of order would come down, and even if it did, there would be mass instances of disobedience.

[@smokedogg19821]

I bet a lot of Germans thought that too back in the 1920s

[@bentstrider]

I enjoyed these little flashback parts. Just now catching back up with these episodes after having binged Shameless the past, couple of weeks. It's amazing how many TWD alumni I spotted through all the Shameless episodes. And it also got me to thinking how well the Gallaghers and the Milkovich's would survive an overrun Chicago. More than likely be the only survivors there!!

[@jonboger2292]

a few points I'd like to make here. I think off hand the fratricide we see portrayed may not be a service-specific event. When I think about this incident as well as the Bog tapes, I think what we are seeing here is individual small unit on small unit fighting. Some people will follow orders, some will vehemently refuse those orders, and in some cases, would probably waste the one giving that order right there and then. There is also another thing that needs to be considered and that is that units that refused would be subject to arrest for insubordination or outright mutiny. These are deadly serious charges with really bad consequences here in the real world. Imagine: I am a young 1st Lt. in the United States Marine Corps. My platoon has been issued the sunset protocol ROE. Upon hearing these orders, my enter rifle platoon along with my senior NCOs (upon whom I have to trust and reply on implicitly. I might give orders, but in the Corps, the NCOs are the heart and soul of everything.) along with myself concur that we cannot kill defenseless people, women and children among them.I go to my Captain and I tell him bluntly that I refuse to carry out those orders. That Captain might agree and may join me. But if he doesn't-which is likely- he will order that myself and my unit be arrested immediately. The problem that Captain would encounter is that my unit is packing live ammunition and is in no mood to be taken prisoner by anybody and the guy who issued that order to me is not only a threat but a traitor to his oath to defend the people. Now we have a Mexican standoff with government issued hardware, and I'm sure you can guess how all this ends. Now, imagine that on a grand scale. Remember, every single person in the military is still a person with morals and values dear to them, and they will each have to make an extraordinarily hard decision. Nobody is going to be happy about being told to kill everyone they see and this will certainly work to destroy not only unit integrity but also the command and control apparatus that carries them out. You might have entire divisions of troops refusing orders or outright going rogue or deserting individually.

[@Deven11397]

The protocol is like instructions within the operation. I’m in the military now. The operation is like the overall mission. But I’ve never hear someone call something a protocol in my years of service.

[@savulescuuu]

you're an us army soldier?

[@Bloodhound46]

never heard of that either man

[@stormyf15]

There are such things as unlawful orders...you can and should report those unlawful orders up the chain of command.

[@hankthepatriot3733]

If your NOT willing to Otis someone in TWD universe, You'll BE the Otis!

[@TWDExplained]

haha most likely!

[@tristanversteeg5738]

remember not only huck's unit got those orders, probably all military everywhere got these orders, so civil right were like fuck you killing civilians and that resulted in civil war, that probably where the blaze of gory came from

[@jazzaman147]

I was in the US Navy when were told when and order came down it was not to be questioned and in a sense if orders came down to fire a a Nuclear warhead to contain the outbreak it would be done but protocols would be in place for such an event and regardless orders would be followed

[@williamlowe9024]

just a quick response to the protocol question. every military operation has a set of contingency plans called protocols. if this situation occurs during this operation contingency protocol alpha is in effect.

[@TWDExplained]

Thanks!

[@TheMightyCookieShow]

Protocol typically refers to "how you should do a thing." Also called rules of engagement. Protocol dictates how a campaign, or operation, will be executed.

[@datguy3581]

I find it hard to believe that the many soldiers would follower their orders. There'd be some who remain loyal but that might be a minority.

[@kidbach]

"If words of command are not clear and distinct, if orders are not thoroughly understood, the general is to blame. But if his orders ARE clear, and the soldiers nevertheless disobey, then it is the fault of their officers."-Sun Tzu. Huck knowingly and willingly disobeyed an order from the Chain of Command and went rogue. If she did not want to follow that order, she shouldve walked away or stepped aside. She committed murder of her Devil Dog teammates, who wasn't given the chance to plead their case to her. Since there is no semblance of proper military order, she escaped facing a military tribunal being charged with crimes of the UCMJ.

[@009Raines]

was operation sunset partly why the National Guard supposedly turned on the Military? also this was the best episode so far

[@zanerkindardis8978]

Thats what I think

[@danielwigley4474]

The national guard are the military too

[@zanerkindardis8978]

@@danielwigley4474 national guard is different then army. When he says military he's just talking about the army.

[@danielwigley4474]

@@zanerkindardis8978 ik that, yea he didn't mean anything by it I just wanted to clarify incase he didn't know, I mean no harm yk

[@anthonymacrobert4075]

@@danielwigley4474 it's an interesting concept the national guard is composed of people from whichever state. Yet it certainly comes under federal control. Would people from a certain state protect the civilians of there home state against soldiers from the same army but another state? That would be a messed up situation 😕.

[@chadbrattain7185]

I'm a veteran Army Ranger E6 Green Beret and you are wrong on the orders. You are obligated to refuse to follow any orders that violate the constitution or the Geneva convention and if give those orders you have a right to disband the military or arrest the officer for violating the rules and regulations of military conduct. Remember this, everyone in the military has family in the country and if they are ordered to kill civilians they are ordered to kill their own kids and family members. Who do you think they are going to protect, the military orders or their family?

[@TheREDVIRUS7]

I have a theory that every states/region in The Walking Dead Universe have different Operation names. Operation Cobalt is for California and Sunset Protocol is for the state that Huck is serving in. Same objective but with different code names.

[@TWDExplained]

could be

[@SobaOfPulaski]

Huck out of all of those guys was a Marine. When her squadmate was like: I am a Marine, I don't know what hell you are. He was no Marine, her choice to disobey an immoral and screwed up order was the Marine thing to do. You swear an oath to protect the people, and when she was ordered to shoot civilians, she chose not to and chose to save them. Now realistically I don't think most of those Marines would follow that order, same with the majority of the Military, at least not the people on the ground. I feel like the Air Force on the other hand would still do the bombings, but there is a lot less thought (hard to say though) when you don't have to look them in the eyes versus being on the ground and seeing them and the fear in their eyes. I have been in the enlistment process for the Marine Corps Reserves (MOS 5811, Marine MP), and my brother has been devoted to join the Marine Corps for a while. We both will say from the place of knowing the type of people who enlist, Marines are loyal to their fellow Marines but also loyal to the people they swore an oath to protect.

[@JoeyMace28]

I mean, it's a show and all, but it's still weird. I could see her fragging her CO or NCO, but her entire squad? Not really, not over an order, let alone her being able to gun down her entire squad without one managing to pop a round or two off into her as well.

[@TWDExplained]

Yeah, seems they would have got a shot off - even if they were taken by surprise

[@ralpha112233]

A protocol is an instruction or set of instructions to be followed should a certain event happen. For example. If your vehicle is disabled and it's unlikely to be repaired/recovered then protocol would be. Destroy the vehicle, particularly any weapon system so that it cannot be turned against you. It would be a "standard " to be used. As for shooting civilians, ordinarily such an order would, I think be unlawful and as such she would be justified in refusing to carry it out. Every solider has the right to refuse to accept what they consider or is undeniably an unlawful order. It would be up to a courts martial to then decide if the refusal was acceptable. However, this an incredible situation so such an order if it came from a high enough authority would be legal. For instance shooting down an unresponsive civilian airliner that appears threatening.

[@mattsretrogaming]

Those air liners are shot down all the time. I think that answers the OPs question. If orders were given at least some would follow if not the majorit

[@ricksmith1902]

They seemed like an elite units of marines. Just look to all the bomb strike the US used to do. To kill a couple enimies they would blow up the whole town. If there was doubt that they where effected

[@ralpha112233]

@@ricksmith1902 Elite unit or not the deliberate targeting of civilians is a war crime. Wiping out a village to get a few awkward, dug in opponents is overkill especially when you consider the technology that they would have available. Even in the circumstances of a zombie outbreak it would be hard to justify doing so. Unless, and there would always be an exception, the manpower available to do the job properly is getting thin and drastic action such as that is considered. But think about that, if you're loosing troops in such a quantity to consider doing so, it MUST be getting bad.

[@laqueuedupretre1312]

To be honest i think the military actually made things a lot worse.

[@garethbertram3091]

Interesting story...but far fetched no military unit of any branch would follow orders to slaughter there own...what would be the point. The military are very well aware at this point on what happens when somebody dies regardless of the circumstances...look at the field hospital in fear the walking dead the national guard euthenised there wounded.

[@christophervoiers8517]

I think it's because at that point the military in The Walking Dead were desperate and they were losing the White House and all the sectors so they figured if they killed the civilians off it'll stop the infection so that maybe they can regain control of some of the Lost sectors but that didn't end in their favor

[@badgoatnation1714]

we need a solider mini series pre breakdown or a spin off series. like the last ship show.

[@Sheed96]

ya a lot of people in the military definitely were not following orders and that why it all collapsed so fast

[@zidanerizalalghifaryalghif3248]

good soldier's follow orders contained the spread, contained the spread

[@ronniewestherly3435]

That was in my opinion a insult to US Marines when it comes to shooting very good.Every Marine from the commandant to a cook has to be able to shot well.The shows writes insulted us by implying we can't shoot.

[@TWDExplained]

That's all zombie shows - it's just a fantasy show - in real life Marines kick some major butt

[@matteoclementi]

As always amazing video, this is a really important thing for TWD universe, as someone was said in your last video probably every state got different protocol but Sunset can be a part of Cobalt as well. They should tell us more and more. About space thing Kirkman thanks god said that his Tweet was just a joke.

[@TWDExplained]

Thanks as always Matteo!

[@NickMullinsHD]

What if during operation cobalt, Beale was in the hospital while Rick was there in the beginning…?

[@robertsmithlll8464]

This is why I don’t trust the American Government you gotta survive on your own in situations like this 💯

[@cyanide_lollipop3264]

James! A lovely viewer directed me to watch the series on Xfinity InDemand, which I never would've thought of (duh). So now I can get all caught up and participate in the discussion. Therefore!! I won't be watching this vid until I get there, ya know? And I'm sure I'll have plenty to say, as always, lol. Keep 'em comin', my friend! ~Angela in Seattle 💚💙

[@zephirol4638]

An operation is a mission. Example: Infiltrate building, eliminate target. A protocol is a rule for a mission/activity. example being if using the above example is to have a protocol of no lethal force against non aggressors in the area of the mission. Or to do something in particular before or after eliminating the target. An this situation is exactly why I'd never join the military with exception of a need like a draft. Too often the "job" would go against my personal views and morals as military justification is often horrendous.

[@TWDExplained]

Thanks for the info!

[@zephirol4638]

@@TWDExplained Glad I could help. Great vids btw.

[@Hondo515100]

It’s an unlawful order as a retired military you follow the Constitution and the Bill of Rights of the United States and UCMJ you are to only follow lawful orders

[@willsimpson125]

You don't really need head shots in real life I've hit a dear in the neck and the trauma will travel up the spinal collom to the rearlobe

[@Bluis5445]

Woman marine in a recon platoon lol. That’s how you know it’s a fictional TV show lol

[@thesilentninja9255]

Protocol would be more like a standing order to be followed in all cases without orders to the contrary. Operation is more like a specific military mission that ends when the specific objective is complete or not able to be completed.

[@westtexas.2238]

I enjoy the flashbacks in WB. And good job on making me want a cold Mountain Dew

[@TWDExplained]

Do you live in Texas? We are getting a What-A-Burger in Nashville!!

[@westtexas.2238]

@@TWDExplained yes!! I hope you l like it. The fires are great with the spicy ketchup. My favorite is the green chili double burger. Also, Dr Pepper shake when it comes out every year. Let me know if you like it

[@TWDExplained]

@@westtexas.2238 yep! I lived in Houston for about 3 years - ate it a bunch!

[@aaronholman8501]

A military operationis the coordinated miliary actions of a state, or a non-state actor, in response to a developing situation. Protocol is the strict form of etiquette and diplomatic courtesy, customs of service (system of accepted social patterns and traditions accepted by the military) and common courtesies (the traits of kindness, friendliness, thoughtfulness and consideration of others) to create order.

[@michaelg.1786]

BTW, the "pin" for Marines is the Globe & Anchor.

[@TWDExplained]

Yes - sorry for my lack of military knowledge and such. I mean no disrespect.

[@michaelg.1786]

@@TWDExplained 👍🏼good review though. Who knows how our government and military would behave in an apocolypse.

[@Erenn294]

The exact information we know about the sunset protocol is as follows 1:First of all, all hospitals and schools will be destroyed. 2 People who are in their homes or on the streets will be taken to safe neighborhoods by the army. Since the army understands that it cannot control the situation, it will withdraw its soldiers and take them to their superiors, that is, to the area called padre. 4 Since the army could not control the situation, all coastal and border cities were destroyed by Napalm bombs, in fact, nuclear bombs were to be used at first, but the navys found the support insufficient and rejected nuclear power. 5 In fact, the people would be taken to the Padre. 6 Countries participating in the Sunset protocol United States Canada

[@unicornmorel405]

Damn!!!missed it on that declaration! huh...lol

[@loganallen8227]

Amazing video

[@TWDExplained]

Thanks!

[@doodlenoodle9998]

I love when they get military backstory not just because I like military in zombies the walking dead universe but Ik there will be a great video by you

[@mattsretrogaming]

New Protocol just another saying for change of standard operating procedure. When zombies come alive the protocol changes on how you deal with civilians under normal or non normal circumstances

[@michaelsinger3940]

I’m from Nashville too let’s meet up one day and talk all things Dead 💀

[@ryanschulte475]

and at 12:58 that was a twist in the series.

[@preppersaurustex1611]

A protocol is a predetermined set of procedures that are enacted for any given scenario or set of circumstances.....An Operation would be more of some type of project or undertaking with a clear defined objective, a plan of action, and a desired outcome.

[@masongodofgames8544]

your theory of huck not being Elizabeth's daughter and not being a spy were so dead wrong if you have not seen episode 8 go watch it now or do it in the morning! :)

[@tonynelligan1930]

people don't have a clue how hard it would be to just one shot someone in the head. it's why in all the shows most fighting gets up close and really personal. the ave. pistol shooter could do it at 20 feet or less, a rifle 200 feet or less for skilled shooter which 98% of most cops and army aren't. so once you can smell them it's too late very too late with 10,000 of them coming behind the one with the bad breath.

[@throtlejpn5089]

Military and army (possibly the navy and seals) - operation cobalt Marines - sunset protocol

[@cfo0621]

I always thought military protocols were serperate from Operations (Military Campaigns). So protocols would have been set up as contingencies for certain situations and could be activated in any Operation. Semper Fi Brother.

[@TWDExplained]

cool thanks

[@ciarajones4970]

I'm confused, how did they manage to rescue so many people without encountering any walkers beforehand, and why did they rescue them just to end up with the decision to kill them? How did huck keep a massive group like that safe on her own? And how were they unaware of the walkers when they already rescued so many civilians? Seems like lazy writing to me

[@TWDExplained]

It is confusing and the edit of the show was not the greatest. I think the walkers they see for the first time in the tunnel are the first ones they see....and not sure if the group of people are the same each time? I think it is telling us that Huck has her own "greater good" world view outside of her being part of CRM.

[@ciarajones4970]

@@TWDExplained yea, they could of spent a episode showing the military side though. Would of been nice.

[@TWDExplained]

@@ciarajones4970 very very nice!

[@ciarajones4970]

@@TWDExplained I just realized though, in season 1 of FTWD they are put in outpost by the military for protection and then Nick gets taken and the old sick wife gets taken to the hospital, if the military were asked to kill everyone, why would they set up outposts for survivors?

[@TWDExplained]

@@ciarajones4970 I think maybe Sunset was never called there - just an evacuation of military?

[@thegermansoftie.2260]

A protocol is a prevention measure for something put in place, ab operation is a military action to reach a goal or location.

[@TWDExplained]

Thanks!

[@thegermansoftie.2260]

@@TWDExplained no problem! Im pre-enlisted so if you ever have any questioms, lmk or mention me!

[@TWDExplained]

@@thegermansoftie.2260 Thanks!

[@weaselwolf8425]

It would be cool to see flashbacks or references to U.S. special ops units, at least in the early stages of the outbreak. At least world war Z mentions/portrays them how our government would probably use them, in conjunction with the regulars and guardsmen (except for the Battle of yonkers). The Walking Dead series gets crazier and crazier. Also forgot to add but its probably a scorched earth policy. Kill the civilians so the zombies can't get more bodies, especially those who could be infected but havent turned yet.

[@criszz5116]

i also wonder what happens to navy seals and other special operation forces when that start😔🤔

[@ItsSirJared]

Operation cobalt would be the name of the mission so probably “save the US” the protocols would be “this is what we will do if this event happens during this mission” ps I’m in the military. Although in real life it’s an unlawful order so even though high command says do it, in that event we would be allowed to say no but oh well, tv military rules

[@luisbaez8105]

im hope the CRM win and restore the world

[@chrisrobinson407]

It's pretty funny that now both Huck and Hope have a dark secret from their past and they now both possess a small token which reminds them of the things that they have done. Huck took a marine medallion off of a walker that reminded her of what she had to do early on (shown in her flashbacks) and Hope has that little planet charm from Elton's Mom which reminds her of what she did during The Night the Sky Fell... I wonder which character will draw strength from their souvenirs and which character will eventually break down from keeping their pain of the past with them... What do you think?!?! Will Elton find out what really happened to his mother, and lose all HOPE... will Huck have some sort of PTSD flashback at the wrong time, resulting in the story of Huck Fin (as in finito, AKA finished ended... she dies) lol... Only time will tell...

[@Vector38-b9t]

I would do what I was told as soon as you break protocol the mission fails mission comes first but the military didnt follow protocol so they failed. So hey there mister space man lol.

[@ryanschulte475]

I think it's protocol of a operation.

[@shiftee7treez631]

OpCobalt was to tryn contain the infected, sunset protacol was somthing set in place as mabye a fail safe for if/when cobalt went to shit...waste everybody. Each probly carried out by differnt branches of the military and compartmenalized , example nat guard was to carry out cobalt having no knowlage of sunset protacol which was to be mabye carried out by army or marines was to cleanup the whole mess

[@weaselwolf8425]

Not related per se but for those of you who watch anime like me, theres a zombie flick that is retarded but does have the cool scenes at the beginning and end of each episode that show the government and military response to the rising zombie apocalypse, not just of the Japanese but of the U.S. as well, including the president and most of the JCS being taken out. Everytime the walking dead has military flashbacks or scenes, especially with Fear, I always think of that anime.

[@trojano80]

What anime is that?

[@weaselwolf8425]

@@trojano80 High School of The Dead

[@demarkiswilliams1244]

I believe that the US government united with other governments around the world to become the civic republic.Sunset was one of their first mission from central command,I also believe a civil war erupted between other central commands and the us government over disagreements on how to handle the outbreak.

[@gametvon98]

Do we think a new short spin off maybe Before the Outbreak and Base Only on Government/Military perspective not Civilian because we have a bunch of that TWD FTWD TWWB. Maybe the first episode will be a Detective or Police officer try to solve some bizzar murder case until it reaches to President/CDC and the Military that would basically like the WWZ but a slow zombie instead

[@TWDExplained]

that would be cool

[@joeyphillips1181]

Having the night vision without IR lasers and lights makes no sense because they wouldn't be shooting that accurate but it's a show 🤷🏻‍♂️ still the best episode so far this season

[@christopherhaught-cruz970]

@12:47 literally she’s looking through her RCO and has her NVG on her other eye, if it’s dark enough to use NVGs then she shouldn’t be looking through her RCO and using the IR lasers 😂

[@EnclaveSOC-102]

It's very unlawful and unethical to target civilians unless you are certain they pose a direct threat to you and your unit, otherwise you will get a court martial.

[@Trunkeddetcord995]

Protocol is part of an operation

[@TWDExplained]

Gotcha. Thanks for watching josh!

[@TheOnlyElle.]

Didnt Huck say to Elizabeth that the scar on Her face was part of Her "cover" wouldn't that mean Her whole backstory is nonsense?? I really dislike Huck lol

[@tylercampbell1186]

Also, it doesn't take anything but 1 engagement to understand many of your enemy's weaknesses. I find it hard to buy that it was hard for people to figure out to just shoot them in the spine/head.

[@santiagoalcantara3806]

11:56 I can't believe that the commanders of the army didn't know that they have to kill the wakers with a headshot. Imagine if they actually told to their soldiers to make headshots only so they became more effective.

[@sgtbones1837]

I don't think the military shot the citizens in the head. This would cause alot more zombies.

[@craigwallace4809]

What do you think of these words. The end, is the beginning Brian. Do you think they have a big clue as to what is going to happen, with the end. I was thinking. maybe they meant that they wanted to use that submarine to fire off some nuclear warheads and have as many people under ground as possible . Starting to have new baby's. As we have never seen a new baby, born after the virus, being bitten and turning, or dieing and turning. So could the new children be ammune to the virus. What is your theory on the matter..

[@TWDExplained]

I would say babies born after would still be infected - but an interesting theory

[@nickthegreek8884]

Its not right that the army wanted to kill innocent people but i wouldn't do what she did to my teammates

[@TWDExplained]

not a good situation to be in

[@alex6961]

I would 💯 Tf if they kill innocent people they aren’t my team mates anymore

[@MrCycled]

@@alex6961 Well im not gonna trust you for sure if 1 day we fight together

[@chuckmangione4747]

I couldn’t kill my fellow marines. These people all would have become walkers. The new rules of the world override her morals. Honestly they were giving them mercy.

[@heysusgonzales]

Protocol maybe be a TV thing, There are contingency plans and operations. Cobalt was an operation (a TV thing I hope). Killing civilians would be wrong but so would killing fellow service members. I would take my chance with a court-martial.

[@Jjay-tw1yy]

kirkman says space spores. who really knows? but everyone is wanting to know

[@nobody-rd8qs]

it was a joke

[@tylercampbell1186]

She did the right thing. Not that normal people would just blindly kill unarmed civilians in real life, but anyways she did the right thing killing her "fellow" Marines whom were so willing to kill a crowd of cowering men, women, and children just trying their best to get away from danger and stay out of the way.

[@TheGamer-cy9ln]

In all of the waliong dead TV shows you see that the military had to make yhe hard choices from bombing cities in walking dead and fear the walking dead to shooting civilians walking dead and walking dead world beyond. But in the I don't think that they shot civilians everywhere in the walking dead you saw the national guard talking about a safe camp that they had and protected civilians. Also in fear the walking dead they just left the safe zones and did not kill the people there.

[@TWDExplained]

good points

[@snarfsnarfff]

what an awful soldier. Cant even follow a simple order

[@HenryDallas-u7l]

Whomever gave these orders.did not know what they were doing 😮

[@maximechoplin3789]

I propose my theory is if huck was in the 1st season of fear?

[@GaiaLegend]

I think I was right all along. It's an alien spore/virus. The whole ''it's not aliens'' was false, and said to keep it a mystery. It wasn't a joke, it was real. And the further we go into the series, the more ''space'' things we see. That's not done accidental, that's done on purpose. Shows and movies tend to do a lot behind the scenes as easter eggs or as concepts to keep the audience guessing so, I think the rumor wasn't just a nod, or just a rumor, I think it's the case.