A Tale of Two Games

[@TheWhatShow]

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[@bloonman1236]

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[@IsYeaYesyup]

no

[@Lazare7782]

I understand why you sold your soul, that money must be real good

[@wolverdep4739]

lmao not this game, Ranton's and Jacob Geller's video on it was so hilarious. its basically the "its so bad its good" of a game. i dont wanna dog pile on the game too much because it looks like it is improving but if i have to say something, the game has its own... charm that will make you love it or hate it

[@vendepapas_7267]

Jokes aside, that game is awesome

[@ShakerSilver]

This whole struggle was never about "TF2 vs OW", it's always been "TF2 vs Valve" and "OW vs Blizzard".

[@taureon_]

its like a competition for who can stay alive for a little bit longer after the doctors shut their life support shut off

[@gunmancarl9618]

@@taureon_helltower lore or something idfk

[@rockowlgamer631]

Famous games vs sloth/devious developers.

[@A_Random_Death_KorpOfKriegsman]

Sadly such is true :(

[@Real_names]

@@taureon_ mann brother lore

[@monothephantom]

The tragedy is that both sides lost, and they lost to their creators, not to each other.

[@dagobahstudios3662]

That’s deep

[@High-Pie_Chop]

Fact!

[@СашаЛагаев]

Yep i had so much fun in early Ow but Tank meta killed it for me.

[@mingotproductions1335]

at the very least we tf2 fans didn't get scamed

[@bobertastic6541]

@@mingotproductions1335 you remind me of the short film 'a brief disagreement'

[@MrMuselk]

SAVETF2

[@CoolSs]

by reverting tf2 to per Meet your match and bringing back Quick Play #AddQuickPlayBack #RevertTF2toPreMYM

[@Hyperlaser_Merc]

@@CoolSsParts of it. They should readd Quickplay, but not completly revert it. Jungle Inferno overall made Matchmaking better. But competitive should be reworked for sure!

[@withermaykr]

You were my childhood

[@yuanwang9324]

bit late, aren't you?

[@matthewcheng4158]

maybe they will work on TF2 after they r done with CS2. we see it in DOTA2 the reduce of updates and changes like its on maintenance modes but CS2 r getting all the updates and focus once they r done i think its possible they can put development time on TF2 and add what they learn/new tech, mostly they will do TF3. hopefully

[@OOGEST_ZOOG]

i find it funny that tf2 was hated for having to many bots while overwatch 2 was hated for having a lack of bots

[@code066funkinbird3]

Ah yes the bitter irony

[@haroldberserker]

What are you talking about?

[@sqentontheslime1967]

@@haroldberserker The PVE- all the omnics you were meant to fight and just AI to play against in general

[@theconductor2969]

Oh trust me. There are a lot of "bots" in overwatch 2. A lot of them.

[@DumplingDoodle]

@@theconductor2969 i need healing i need healing i need healing i ne

[@wiggytommy8607]

Fun Fact: Overwatch 2 is one of the very few games on Steam to not have an Artwork Community tab

[@johanbjorkman1914]

Hmmm

[@franck-oq4jv]

I wonder why

[@onyx_gabriel]

*H M M M M*

[@neondead2.0.15]

Lol

[@ilikepigeons6101]

LMAO

[@pvzgamer6029]

Save TF2 was like the shower scene in Schindler’s List. They were small victories when compared to the suffering. (Though I really shouldn’t compare the Holocaust to a video game)

[@OldandAbandonedHarcorte]

Overwatch and TF2's playerbases really be like Redmond and Blutarch Mann fighting eachother over petty shit even after they're both fucking dead.

[@rootkit1999]

this. this is the best way to describe it. couldn't agree more and i fucking hate it (put a lot of hours in both)

[@krunken_isok]

history does repeat itself

[@grantcasey1353]

Including them continuing to argue over who technically died first

[@realSgtCarbeeno_21]

it's so poetic

[@YORCHspartan117]

@@grantcasey1353 i wonder who would be gray mann in this situation

[@ImmaLittlePip]

I swear that MatPat video and that one Death Battle video caused a rift between TF2 and OW fans the likes of which were never fixed

[@starmaker75]

Granted I think it was other factors sunch as the original big TF2 tubers like muselk and star going to overwatch and showing their burn out. Their also valve trying to do match matching and failing hard on it

[@Rutgerman95]

Look, nothing personal to MatPat, I hope his new life plans go well for him... but his Game Theories have been click-bait garbage for years now and he should have retired way earlier.

[@halo2008el]

Are you sure about that?

[@MrDreamblader]

That video had such bad representation for tf2

[@caronationelm8443]

That video feels half-baked.

[@cloudoaldo2461]

When I finished this video, my mind formed an image of Tracer and Scout dead from starvation, holding hands, dry tears on their faces, Scout's side full of sniper lasers, Tracer's side full of Hanzo's arrows.

[@martin-dw]

Tracer with a big butt, and Scout with buff muscles

[@cloudoaldo2461]

both with big butts@@martin-dw

[@GARDRAWS]

@@martin-dw no, just no

[@ChromaticAbberant]

@@martin-dw LMFAO

[@holy_crusaderoftheholyland4713]

​@@martin-dwfucking cringe

[@WeezyTF2]

"We're gonna do it" That's right, we will.

[@WavingGuyN]

Poggers Banana Man

[@starmaker75]

Well you made mvm more popular

[@The_Not_So_Funny_Funny_Man]

Hi weezy

[@СашаЛагаев]

Banana man with a plan

[@snaild0g]

... But how?

[@RhythmOSauce]

After a long war, I feel like both sides would go to a bar, get drunk, and complain their problems to each other.

[@CF-or3ci]

Then one of them says “oh well at least I didn’t have it THAT bad” and sht starts all over again

[@StopMotion-Dann]

i feel like instead of personafied games it would be all the different characters interacting and drinking together

[@mrfrog0913]

​@@CF-or3ci England and France:

[@ThingInTheHall]

I'm imagining Tracer and Scout drunk at a bar together, just chatting

[@JesseMC_yt]

@@ThingInTheHallhas this ship been done before because that's where it sounds like you're coming from

[@maciejcocieto4361]

What's with this "killer" thing? When Overwatch came out I was like "Cool! Now I can play two cool games instead of one!". It's great to have multiple games to choose instead of just one.

[@the6597]

Yeah! Exactly! Its like that one meme, y’know, two cakes are better than one, who cares whoch is better if you enjoy them both?

[@maciejcocieto4361]

@@the6597Exactly!

[@warmike]

It's the "game as a service" trend. Most people can't keep up with the grindfest in two games at the same time.

[@brem-]

I completely forgot they went for the whole "oh we're getting review bombed" when OW2 came to Steam. It wasn't a review bomb, it was just what happend when you mistreat a community for years without them ever getting a good way to voice their frustrations, and that community can suddenly speak their mind without it being deleted.

[@defaultdan7923]

listen, i’m all for blizzard getting fucked over as much as the next guy, but like; it was literally a review bomb. there is quite literally no other way to describe it. many of those reviews were low effort, there were very few reviews that actually detailed why they disliked the game.

[@ijones36]

Because the faults were obvious and overwhelming and the same things the communities had been saying for years now. plus the awful monetization of ow2. @@defaultdan7923

[@tbagger5211]

@@defaultdan7923exactly

[@aanakk]

​​​​@@defaultdan7923 that's... what you get when most shit that's wrong about your game has been said over and over for the past couple of years? You also don't have to elaborate if you don't like the game -- like the only reviews that count are from your 3rd grade English teacher's pets. Most of these players are legit OW players simply because OW community is WAY bigger than TF2 community, and I would argue it's the only time those two joined together in a common goal. And OW community was even bigger, untill it all went to hell, and now all those players who stopped playing long ago return for one last laugh. Sure, the game was review bombed. But not by bots, it was review bombed by the game's own community because that's the only way they could voice their frustration at Blizzard at that point who sulked in a corner and pretended like they're getting bullied. Sure, like they didn't methodically destroy their own flagship game more and more over the years, losers.

[@DeDeDank]

There were probably a good amount of people who did it for the meme once the whole “Lowest rated game on steam” thing became viral. Doesn’t mean they didn’t deserve it though. Seriously, what the hell was that timing?

[@thebreadbringer]

"Blizzard did more than just suck. They guzzled." Damn, that's a good one.

[@howtodobyanidiot595]

No, not even guzzled straight up deep throating deeper than the FUCKING Marina Trench

[@RadarFinsR]

Who won? The corporations won, because they were able to milk the games while doing fuck all about their problems.

[@genxvrx]

And in the end, the only clear winner was greed

[@free4fire]

True and I honestly can't decide who's got it worse, TF2 could have some very capable people working on and fixing it but those people just don't care about it because other projects make more money, so it's left to slowly die. Meanwhile OW actually has an active development team behind it but those people are incompetent and greedy and are thus unintentionally but actively killing the game with horrible decisions.

[@Prophetofthe8thLegion]

It’s like the fucking clone wars, both the clones and the separatist lost, it was the empire or in this case the corporations that won.

[@conqueenfador5037]

Not really, yeah in terms of overall money they got huge profits and managed it before the games in question fell apart. But if the games in question still successful to this day without those massages fallouts incidents they would be making the same or way higher profits longer and such. A drop out and huge reduction for influx of new players will just make you lose profits wanting or not. But I do get your point at the end of the day they got their money worth and if they dealt with the problems they could milk more money but it isn't really needed cause they already profited from them.

[@Knarrenheinz1021]

the game wasn't the only thing that the company milked...

[@shinysquif4046]

I think its incredibly poetic the similarities that can be drawn between the endless bickering of the TF2 and Overwatch communities and the Gravel Wars between Redmond and Blutarch Mann. Two brothers endlessly fighting over nothing

[@temkin9298]

Like mann bros, everybody thinks it is worthless but it is actually very lucrative. Their competition only hurts both of them. OW got too big too quickly, tf2 forced an update that it didn't need.

[@cloudynguyen6527]

I remember someone explained in the current time of TF2, the federal governments were expanding their highway system, so gravel was incredibly lucrative. I agree that hiring mercenaries to blow up each other facilities is... stupidly expensive. But to say that they fight over nothing is wrong.

[@shinysquif4046]

@cloudynguyen6527 in the tf2 comic Blood Brothers, Gray Mann explicitly states Redmond and Blutarch have spent years fighting an "asanine war, over worthless pits of gravel." they then reveal the reason they've been fighting over it for so long is that they believed steam engines were powered by gravel instead of coal. they're idiots fighting over nothing

[@lordjaraxxus5418]

@@cloudynguyen6527 Skymin was the one to point out the highway thing.

[@RealRoid]

and both of them are fking dead

[@purplehaze2358]

"It wouldn't take long for competitive mode to have a _serious_ cheating problem." This is what we in the business call, "foreshadowing".

[@chairwood]

wat is the business

[@blueknife7728]

@@chairwood business

[@Alex_Vir]

Forshadowing is a rethorical device…

[@Yellomelon]

I never knew that a character in overwatch was called "sigma"

[@therealf.b.i9468]

Sigma balls

[@Fatih_M177]

I almost laughed when i heard that cause it was extremely unexpected. (God i hate that word XD)

[@Wizzmane]

As a newgen Megaman fan, I was also surprised

[@bruhbruh-us6gl]

Actually cackled irl when I reached that portion of the video

[@Prophetofthe8thLegion]

This killed Overwatch

[@desk_fan_chan]

i dont play overwatch and im pissed at the devs. imagine waiting 4/5 years for something just for it to be cancelled.

[@cookieelement3467]

I play Overwatch My rage could fill the 9 rings of hell with screams :)

[@yourcordialvermillionchapw2398]

​@@cookieelement3467 "My rage is hotter then you think. I've played for the side. My rage is hotter then you think."

[@raccoon.legion]

I was so pumped for the PvE, I even got my 4 friends back into the game saying it was gonna be worth it to get used to the game again for how awesome the PvE was gonna be, only 1 of them is still my friend. This game literally caused cracks in my relationships that I could not patch up after wasting hundreds of their hours.

[@torpid5092]

I know this is just going to sound like me bootlicking for Blizzard but I honestly find that to be the dumbest thing to get upset about. Absolutely nobody plays OW for the PvE content, it's not like the entire fanbase was massively hooked on the story mode, they play it for the pvp. And now that OW2 is free, it makes even less sense to get upset about it, what did you get cheated out of? What did you lose by Blizzard cancelling it? Its disappointing yeah but losing your fucking mind and getting extremely upset about it doesnt seem to make sense to me when hardly anybody seemed to care about its announcement and now the game is free. If you start playing OW because of what you expect to be added, instead of what it currently is, then that's on you.

[@wolverdep4739]

how can you guys still be angry at anything nowadays? I just get depressed and want to gib myself at this point

[@cyruscheng499]

Controversy starring Hong Kong will be the second worst thing that will happen to you today

[@Moter.]

And now pve cancellation is here to f*ck us

[@trevorragan2464]

⁠@@Moter.So listen up boy

[@davisdf3064]

"that company has already botched consumer experience"

[@TrialDubz]

Insert happy gamer playing overwatch

[@dagobahstudios3662]

The news has already breached our defenses…

[@mr_nehative]

1:07:35 my mom started watching the vid as soon as you switched to CS footage and said: "you better stop watching these violent youtube videos", but immediatly got confused by the overwatch footage. The argument was solid.

[@DeDeDank]

Reasons why I've continued to play OW for the past 6 years 1: Suffering builds character 2: Suffering builds character 3: The heros are hot

[@thunderspark1536]

Tf2: are we a joke to you?

[@Lu_Bu__]

They’re not, they look like trash 😂😂

[@wisemeowster]

All three reasons apply to tf2

[@DeDeDank]

@@wisemeowster this whole situation is one of the rare times “We’re not so different, you and I” works well

[@marcelzed1154]

Orisa got me acting unwise

[@eclipseknigth1174]

1:11:10 Thanks for not putting the "no" version there TheWhat I know that took restraint

[@sabiancoomber-nickerson5830]

Especially since overwatch was made illegal and saying yes would've had them all arrested for being vigilantes.

[@B4rry16]

God I love the b4nny interview sections, all the other interviewees try to give these nuanced open-minded answers and b4nnys just like "I spent 30 minutes thinking about if they improved anything and I couldn't come up with anything" lmao

[@jr.jackrabbit10]

b4n4n4 and uncle ane were definitely the highlights. dane does try to give a nuanced take but it seems more like he's just spinning something up on the fly rather than having a rehearsed / scripted take

[@memo7450]

​@@jr.jackrabbit10😮

[@Dat_Jonx]

Well, Ambient Occlusion they added is pretty, I guess.

[@Stefanonimo]

I really miss 2016-17 Overwatch and 2012-14 TF2. My best memories are from these periods. The games were so good and we'll never get such experience ever again.

[@mercenarygundam1487]

Once again, proof competitive players ruin everything.

[@miZuZYN]

​@@mercenarygundam1487 OW was not really ruined by competitive. Blizzard ruined it by a lot of bad decisions.

[@mercenarygundam1487]

@@miZuZYN Same with Team Fortress 2

[@bye1551]

My personal favourite memories are 2018. After the polish came in, before the negligence ruined it

[@herkload]

I miss the OG saharan spy set and when the soda popper gave you mini crits 🤣

[@Markm8]

I whould manually ban bots for less than minimum wage if valve let me

[@rosebelmahjoubi1932]

dont say that in earshot of any company !

[@Moter.]

Vote kicking will become $2 per kick

[@SonicAdventureEnjoyer]

​@@Moter.will be able to buy a new PC and your next car the upcoming week

[@jraff2735]

You will get 1 farthing for every bot you ban What's a farthing you ask?

[@saltytunes1883]

I'd pay valve if they let me work for them to ban bots

[@TheEgg733]

I hope both communities can find common ground and be more friendly with each other.

[@Kayther33]

Imagine a crossover, like a femscout skin for tracer. A pink russian hair for Heavy and a laser minigun. a Texan skin for tormjorm with a wrench. That would be great and wholesome

[@throatt]

as someone whose in love with both games, if valve and blizzard locked in we couldve gotten the worlds best collaboration

[@MoistyHoots]

the 2 hour long form video essay is real....strap yourselves in boys, it's gonna be one hell of a ride

[@eatmynutsarchmage4883]

YEEHAW

[@diamondhamster4320]

TLDR 2 dead games, were good, now very bad. Here saved ya like 2 hours of blablabla.

[@MoistyHoots]

@@diamondhamster4320 i'm glad i watched it anyways since the quality is high and getting to hear voices of the community's creators is nice

[@diamondhamster4320]

@@MoistyHoots =_=

[@TeenWithACarrotIDK]

⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠@@diamondhamster4320 I’ll determine if it’s just yapping for myself.

[@SirAsdf]

I don't think I've ever seen a game go from genre redefining eSports mega success to mostly abandoned laughingstock quite as quickly as OverWatch did. There were like 6 different major team based character shooters that all came out not long after OverWatch, and they all failed almost instantly because everyone would rather be playing OverWatch instead. How many of you remember Gigantic or LawBreakers?

[@frank8917]

I remember Lawbreakers, it was some sorft of Quake champions mixed with.... apex legends, i think?

[@starmaker75]

Yeah I mean sure TF2 had it decline and stuff but it been 14-15 years since either released. Yeah overwatch got over lived by tf2 not once but twice by the looks of it.

[@HandsomeJackKR]

Funny you mention Gigantic considering they uploaded a trailer for it coming back like a couple hours ago

[@AzureRoxe]

Quite literally today Gigantic was revealed to be doing a comeback.

[@LordRemiem]

Back when OW was fresh I was on the other side, playing Paladins: I don't know if they were an expor, but it was fun to play :)

[@mikehawk486]

I misread the title as "germanies greatest tragedy - overwatch VS tf2"

[@flooku987]

No brass no ass so crass

[@goodie2goodie1]

Something tells me Overwatch and TF2 weren't their greatest tragedy.

[@tyrusing]

rest in peace Eviction Notice, nerfed to irrelevance because compers couldnt bear the though of heavy making it to the frontline 2% faster

[@mayo_-]

Comments like this only fracture the community man, idk why they treat the eviction notice so weird, as its always been a bit of a diet GRU

[@BlahoMark15]

@@mayo_- i still understand why heavy with spiked knuckle dusters deal less damage.

[@diegodankquixote-wry3242]

The b.a.s.e. jumper was left in ruin, and I can't even recognize the my beloved painic attack anymore

[@Noelll]

@@mayo_-Yes I’m sure a (accurate) KZbin comment will shatter this decade+ old game’s community.

[@kecskekiralyd1162]

I think it's important to remember that yes, the catalyst for balance changes was the competitive community it's not their fault that Valve fucked up.Valve had all the feedback it needed, but valves incompetence ruined not just the balance changes but meet your match as a whole.

[@Evanflame-rk9xu]

Uncle Dane said it perfectly, probably not even realizing it. Overwatch 2 wasn't Overwatch 2 It was Overwatch again.

[@HeadPats7443]

Overwatch 1.2

[@thegreatscribbles960]

Nah it was overwatch but less

[@HeadPats7443]

@@thegreatscribbles960 Overwatch 0.2!

[@EmperorSigismund]

Overwatch 2 wasn't Overwatch 2, Overwatch 2 was Overwatch too.

[@AwkCrafty]

hard quote

[@bruhbruh-us6gl]

57:08 As someone with almost no knowledge of OW heroes, I actually died when I saw this

[@MRswipez1]

7:45 trickstab

[@TheWhatShow]

I hit a sweet matador at some point in the vid hope I made you proud 🫡

[@MRswipez1]

@@TheWhatShowvery proud

[@Suddsy11037]

"oooh stabby stabby"

[@sticc.5483]

“trickstab” truly, this is the content I’m subscribed for 💀💀 hey swipez we love you

[@CallieCacola]

do u know how weird it is to hear a bunch of youtubers I've been subscribed to for years talking about a game I play over a song I wrote when I was 15. Even weirder to hear it as the emotional climax of a 2 hour long video essay like this? lol good video, appreciate the soundtrack use.

[@TheWhatShow]

NO WAY. The very first idea I had for this video was using lit fuse as the climax. Keep up the good work!

[@dsnikles]

I found out about your song from a GD level called “Lit Fuse”, and i always loved this song in the level, and its pretty surprising for me that you were only 15 when you wrote it, like… i was trying to create bass boosted version of rickroll in Audacity when i was the same age, damn

[@Tw1ZZLER]

are you still making music nowadays? I would love to support your work!

[@dervik2]

In the end it really was... a war without reason

[@joshuawiener5003]

My thoughts exactly

[@darwinmorgan6690]

It reminds me of a quote "We're fighting the wrong enemy" in a literal sense. The fight shouldn't be about OW vs TF2, it should have been OW and TF2 community vs Valve and Activision-Blizzard.

[@y0n459]

Someone said it finally!!! My ULTRAKILL hyperfixation syndrome has calmed. Thank you.

[@silksongoutyet]

is that a muthafuckin ultrakill reference!?

[@ChromaticAbberant]

WE DEMOLISHING BENJAMIN WITH THIS ONE

[@tsunderemerc2963]

That PvE in OW being cancelled was a huge blow for me, and i barely even followed it. I loved MvM in TF2 as a second way to play, so i immediately lost any and all interest once that mode was scrapped.

[@lilwintery6434]

The pve mode this season was good for a few playthroughs but I wish they really expanded on it.

[@Dat_Jonx]

I had high hopes for OW2 PvE and PAYDAY 3 as a huge fan of both games... At least TF2 is now more playable.

[@ImmaLittlePip]

Never forget OW2 was announced right around the time Blizzard got into controversy over the whole Hong Kong thing So OW2 felt like the homework or school project of a guy who procrastinated till the last day of vacation but is only working late at night to finish his project

[@starmaker75]

More like a guy getting exposed for shady dealing with crime gangs and using charity events and creating new projects to show he did not money laundry it. Only then show he a creep around women and assault them.

[@crack4184]

Don't forget Overwatch development team supports Hong Kong, though.

[@lancetheking7524]

"but still better than valorant" that caught me off guard that's kinda hilarious

[@SquirtleEatsAll]

Another thing from the CS clips at 53:00 going into the Overwatch live cast is also how much you can tell the CS commentators love the game and the community, the Overwatch ones sound like they're annoyed to be there

[@emilytheimp]

You just know Blizzard was *heavily* moderating what the casters were saying lol. Something like Dota 2's Sunsfan and Synderen could never happen there

[@dracvich]

tbf Counter-Strike had and still has THE best casters and talent in the entirety of eSports, so comparing it to Overwatch's is like comparing your friend at high school that was pretty good at basketball to fuckin LeBron James

[@KOTEL13]

Bro cooked 2 fucking hours

[@wr3nche5]

if FixTF2 and the 2024 summer update continues the way it is at the time of writing (no bots, comic 7, and a _little_ reignited hope), we really need a follow-up to this video

[@Enddramon]

so your saying TF2 was left for dead? that the Counter-Strike against Valve failed? That Tf2 is now only Half-living?

[@unfunniestman]

TF2 has really entered the Portal of misfortune

[@SaintRedFox]

That TF2 is on its Half-Life?*

[@LeonKlent]

More proof all valve games take place in the same universe, just different parts of the tineline

[@nikeiyomiuri2728]

Yes without a dota

[@Wizzmane]

It was truly a day of defeat for TF2

[@Confidencyy]

1:50 i love how more and more people are starting to use this clip when referencing pyro

[@SwitchTorbin]

Not even 2 mins in and fempyro joke. Gotta love it

[@DinoJake]

This video makes me imagine Heavy and Winston standing against one another on the battlefield, each surrounded by dead comrades. They aim their weapons at each other...but both hesitate. Not because they suddenly want to make peace, but because they no longer see the point in fighting.

[@MrMatMrMat123]

Its kind of sad that the battle isnt about which game is better but which game has less bad things.

[@Papermin6927]

So... Are they both the second and first worst?

[@lukeaustin4465]

Tf2 is still better, in overwatch you'll get shit on by your own team for just wanting to chill on a certain character. In tf2 no one gives a shit about what you pick.

[@Kapnohuxi_folium]

1:17:06 I'm glad I'm not the only one who preferred and misses old bastion a lot, getting drunk and one tricking him in quickplay with a party of randos to vc with was the most fun I ever had playing overwatch.

[@TheWhatShow]

I'd give anything to use tank mode just one more time :(

[@FederalBureauOfInvestigation02]

homelander is real. he stole the milk.

[@starmaker75]

Overwatch vs TF2 feels like ottoman empire vs kingdom of Austria state. Like it egos beefy over stupid stuff and hate each other. However with time and age they have become shell of their former self and by end of it they allied because of their twilight years and people running it are doing an really bad job.

[@Moter.]

I used to hate overwatch but recently I've started playing it a little here and there so honestly this isn't wrong lmao

[@YouGoBoomYoget]

Bro overwatch 2 is at its peak at the moment

[@amongdrip8073]

​@@YouGoBoomYogetStop the cope, you don't shut down your pro league and call yourself healthy.

[@amongdrip8073]

Fun analogy, but which would be which? Is Overwatch the Ottoman Empire? And Tf2 The Hapsburgs? or is it the other way around?

[@Madaseter]

​@@YouGoBoomYoget Now this comment has just GOTTA be bait . Don't feed the trolls, guys.

[@calebkelly8221]

46:30 "The massive deer population eats a ton of the local fauna" Slight correction: deer don't eat animals in normal circumstances, they eat plants, or flora. Great vid so far otherwise still watching it.

[@DumbArse]

Them fucking zombie deers are eating everything

[@СашаЛагаев]

☝️🤓

[@calebkelly8221]

@@СашаЛагаев oh yeah big nerdy boi

[@edenengland1883]

i mean they eat birds (like.. one across multiple months...) and probably bugs so.. thats *some*, just not very much

[@calebkelly8221]

@@edenengland1883 absolutely, just not under normal circumstances. Casual Geographic has a great vid on this.

[@elpen_dejo-GD]

august 3 2024, i played 20 consecutive tf2 matches without bots, as case-oh once said: THIS IS A MOMENT IN HISTORY, TAKE A PICTURE

[@Joaquin__]

what uncle dane said about the gameplay loop really resonates with me because it doesnt matter if im going 3-17 on spy or doing insane plays on soldier the game is just simply fun no matter how much you are winning or losing

[@imconfused6955]

That's what I love about tf2. I don't really care if I do bad in a game, but it does suck to let the team down. If tf2 I can go 3-24 and it won't detriment anybody else's playing experience

[@sardonicus1739]

I disagree. Being on the losing team can be completely demoralizing especially if it's a game mode like attack defense where one team can spend a whole round camping spawn and no one on the other team can leave, and so they all start rage quitting so there's not even enough teamates to do a desperate uber push to leave spawn. I have been on both sides of the spawncamping before on dustbowl. Winning is just objectively funner. Getting a 41 streak with 10 doms will always feel better to me than getting steam rolled. I feel like that's natural.

[@Joaquin__]

@@sardonicus1739 its the most fun when the teams are equally matched imo. about getting spawn camped, I've rarely had that happen and when it does you can just re-queue so its not that much of a problem.

[@nomletparti2622]

The entire time everyone thought TF2 was Overwatch's rival, but in the end one was merely the future reflection of the other.

[@simple-commentator-not-rea7345]

When did Overwatch decide to actually give their characters memorable personalities like TF2 did from the start? Oh, you meant Overwatch's downfall reflected TF2's. Got it

[@Mooseshovel]

I do notice that most problems with online games start with 'we want to appease the comps'. It never works out. You dont force a comp scene, the comp scene develops naturally when a game is good. See Halo and CoD.

[@royatoy5769]

A tiny flaw with the interviews and questionaires about the respective games i think there was a lack of exclusive ow players like how both uncle dane and b4nny couldn't respond to having played ow2 so there weren't many proper in depth explanations from them

[@Sizzyl]

This is a great video documenting exactly how BOTH of my favorite FPS games went so wrong despite still being pretty fun games to this day, was really hard to explain all of this to people whenever they asked me and now I can just link them a 2 hour video that they'll definitely 100% without a shadow of a doubt sit down and watch instead of asking me to explain it to them instead.

[@pixelz3040]

Especially as a f2p spy player, the whole f2p mute thing was a kick in the teeth and almost made the class pay-to-play. Not being able to call out voice lines while disguised immediately flags you as a target for suspicion. It doesn't completely make the character unplayable, but it sure is annoying.

[@Dat_Jonx]

Also that means that freebies can't spam "Spy!" voiceline.

[@spyhy4019]

The thing about GOATs was that goats was really fun to play if you are a tank or support player, it was way more complex and com heavy than any other meta that ever existed for those who understood it. The reason why brawl and dive are better is because you can play more heroes and especially dps heroes

[@Dat_Jonx]

Bs, diving synergy with monke more fun than just spamming brawl untill team kill.

[@spyhy4019]

@@Dat_Jonx no, seriously, during dive not every member of the team was involved usually the winton and dva maybe dps, but goats was everyone vs everyone at once There is a good reason super, flats and many others liked goats that much

[@Dat_Jonx]

@@spyhy4019 in dive everyone was involved and everyone was doing their part, it's just goats 10 times simpler to understand, since it's just face-to-face LMB and ability spam 'till team wipe.

[@spyhy4019]

@@Dat_Jonx Im a winton main since season 16 ow1 at masters/gm level and no, most of the time people do not dive with you, at most 1 dps, the other usually goes cass qnd supports try to fend for themselves

[@AJOlaks]

We need to make both #SaveTF2 and #SaveOverwatch trending

[@alexthebat-uy5be]

I know there’s a lot of negativity directed towards overwatch(for good reason) but their new season has been a big W in a lot of ways. Ow players finally got their long awaited revamped competitive system, along with a huge shakeup in the game’s balance. Call me delusional but I think things will finally turn around this year.

[@lilwintery6434]

​@@alexthebat-uy5be Yeah it's fun right now, but at this point, nothing would get rid of the wider community's grievances towards the 2 in the title unless they release a full campaign, or make all the skins free again, neither of which will be likely to happen.

[@bruhbruh-us6gl]

Nah

[@Collisto2435]

"So, which game won?" No one.

[@otmanbudunt6992]

The battle of 2 rotting corpes full of maggots and flies

[@blazermettro2059]

But atleast you gotta admit that tf2 corps is like a Litch, covered in decaying black armor. Worn from years of battle. While overwatch looks like very freshly risen undead.

[@tbotalpha8133]

TF2 is throwing hats from its hospital bed, tubes in every orifice. Overwatch is throwing battlepasses, waist-deep in its own grave.

[@dragonslayer7724]

No they’re both dead

[@Adamko_10playz]

​@dragonslayer7724 yeah no tf2 is very much fine and alive it's the same it never died

[@d4s0n282]

@@Adamko_10playz funny enough overwatch is pretty much in same position, they slowly been making a comeback, although the new season for ow might have killed it if they dont fix it

[@longerthanyouthink]

I love how you included input from so many creators of the community for this episode. Really goes to show how entrenched everyone is in these games.

[@lilithFGC]

there was 0 ow people in the video :/ no one interviewed plays ow anymore and it shows.

[@DeDeDank]

I wish he got some interviews with some OW creators. At most he just played some clips of people like Flats talk about the game

[@DEDE-om6rz]

Muselk counts as he was a big one in the OW community. He’s seen both sides and both communities

[@xenobrina7880]

Yeah watching this video as an OW fan was kind of painful. Not because the content was wrong, but that OW was consistently framed and treated as the villain long before any of its controversies@@lilithFGC

[@lilithFGC]

@@xenobrina7880 couldn’t agree more

[@MrGermandeutsch]

I think there is a misconception between what's an AI and what's a Bot.

[@chickennugget6684]

yeah, the bots aren't intelligent, it's just an aimbot on a set path

[@Dryfloorsign]

while yeah in theory, i sometimes see bots running to dispensers or healthpacks. and switch weapons when you get too close.

[@chazaroo9364]

Congratulations on making an AMAZING video! It was alot of fun to watch, very informative and unbiased. It was a pleasure to watch Both sides of a Era of gaming history be told in such a manner. Absouluetly fantastic job on a brilliant video

[@tttttttttttttttp12]

I used to play Overwatch with my dad, and it was so fun to play. I remember getting so excited when the trailer for Overwatch 2 dropped, until I realized it'd be a crapshoot. Since then, I've pretty much dropped overwatch and moved on to tf2. I never even knew the fanbases hated each other, but it saddens me to see the state both games are in. One abandoned to bots and cheaters, the other corrupted by corporate greed.

[@Moter.]

To be fair, both are corrupted by corporate greed. It is pretty sad that this hate for each other's game has to go on tho, I'll admit I was an overwatch hater a few years ago but I've matured since then and actually started playing overwatch, I dream of a day where both communities frolick in harmony with eachother accepting their differences and having mutual respect but that day with probably never come

[@catuluj4385]

I dont think it was ever outright hate, just mostly resentment and a bit of jealousy. Even when overwatch released, tf2 was still more fun (subjectively) and more mechnically deep and engaging (objective), so seeing what felt like a lot of the playerbase leave tf2 to play with the new kid on the block just fostered animosity. It didnt help that prominent tf2 youtubers quit tf2 to make videos exclusively on overwatch, so it felt like OW was actively threatening and trying to kill tf2. Over time, as it became clear that the 2 games offered a different experience and that the playerbase for both equalized and stopped threatening each other the hate died down a lot, to the point i think most tf2 player these days will admit they enjoyed some aspects of overwatch without blocking you instantly

[@lilwintery6434]

@@catuluj4385 I agree with you but I don't think one game is deeper than the other for me both are deep and engaging in different ways.

[@martin-dw]

@@lilwintery6434 Any tf2 character is a lot deeper than any ow char but there is a lot more chars in ov than tf2, henceforth, more interactions, henceforth, moar deep. so probably they are the same deep as a whole game

[@borax8886]

that overwatch role queue is how i ended up a tank main and now a heavy main all these years later

[@DyslexicGamer]

Want to hear a joke? Why is tracer always running? So she doesn't get groped by the blizzard employees. Want to hear another joke? Why is the scout always running? So the bots don't get a lock on

[@LeonKlent]

Un-fucking-hinged

[@Catto_Ninja]

I don't know what even to say, this video made me really emotional for some reason. I had a very important experience with both games throughout my childhood (TF2 started when I was 13 to 14, but to me the adolescence begins at 15, so TF2 still counts as a major thing to my childhood). I used to watch a lot of OW videos on KZbin back in 2016 and really wished to play it, just to now see it rotting, it's like meeting an old friend that you met on school who is currently homeless. Anyway, in 2021 I started watching Lazypurple's videos, that TF2 game looked pretty fun, so I started playing it and got in love with it, but when I started seeing the past of it through KZbin videos and understanding the bot situation, I got very sad and feeling a guttural feeling of disappointment at Valve, I realised I was playing a game that could be considered as a war veteran, but Valve was doing the equivalent to throwing this war hero into a very bad nursing home and letting it die alone with caretakers who should probably be locked in a prison. This video felt like this emotion that I have been building since 2021 came all at once, the Overwatch side not so much, but the TF2 side hit too hard. Both games are beautiful, TF2 is amazing at everything and OW remembers me of good times, both are important to me, and both are being desecrated because of pure stupid company bullshit.

[@wesellclams8657]

I find it insane how a TF2 vs Overwatch video demonstrates a higher understanding of an ecosystem than people that see videos of wolves hunting deer near a logging site and think "urrm wolf scary"

[@masterofbloopers]

What a depressing ending for both games. That's the modern AAA game industry in a nutshell.

[@tigerlover2853]

In the end, it was a war without reason.

[@enomiellanidrac9137]

The problem with TF2 as an E sport for me to watch is the same I've had with OW, LoL and some others : it's a mess of quick action and effect on the screen that a casual viewer has no chance to really appreciate because he doesn't know enough about the game. Conversely when I started watching CS the actions were slower, maybe unassuming, but the tactic and execution were easy to grasp even without prior knowledge of the game and ironically this for me made the really outrageous action more impressive.

[@sgas]

Sick intro music, thanks for including all those people in it, even ones I haven't seen in years or more controversial ones

[@starmaker75]

Honestly the only controversial one is Zesty

[@Calvin_Coolage]

​@@starmaker75I'd argue Muselk's name is mud for TF2 fans since he jumped onto Overwatch.

[@The-ne9ut]

​@@Calvin_Coolagewhich is kinda silly tbh

[@sgas]

@@starmaker75 lol shhhh

[@catuluj4385]

​@@Calvin_Coolage thats because he jumped into it practically the moment it launched, and stopped posting any tf2 vids for a long time until the second channel launched. He did the same with fortnite, jumping on it the second it launched. It just all seemed like he wanted more money, not that he was getting bored or annoyed with the state of the game. Over time, and video releases of tf2 on second channel where he talked more about his motivations and reasons for leaving it became clear why, but at the time it felt like he just saw a new shiny game with more audience and deserted his entire pre-existing fanbase to pursue the attention/money it would give to be an overwatch youtuber

[@mioszstrojny6133]

Great video. I hope this brings more awarness to the tf2 problem. After save tf2 "succedeed" people just forgot about it. They moved on, and they shouldnt. People now make normal videos ignoring the problems but i think 99% of tf2 content should be about the problems and we should all focus on those problems to get a fix, because if we dont give it enough attention, valve aint doin shit.

[@starmaker75]

Yeah called it a cope, but I hope at least get vavle to deal with the occasional wave of bots. I get dealing with bot makers it hard to deal with, but still.

[@dragonslayer7724]

Valve said that TF2 wouldn’t get any large updates because of the community’s possible outrage

[@unfunniestman]

SaveTF2 didn't "suceed", it straight up failed Valve just added a snake and the entire community forgot about protesting

[@mioszstrojny6133]

@@unfunniestman thats why i put it in inverted commas dumas

[@Gunpoint303]

Actually tf2 survived the bot problem once more, there’s no bots anymore at this time of tf2 existence

[@holojet]

I feel like there's no game that will ever kill tf2, it just has something that no other class based shooters had. I think the only reason it would die would be because of neglect from valve.

[@starmaker75]

When you survived the bot crisis of 2020-2022 and still get occasional big wave of new player show how powerful the appeal of TF2.

[@twinzzlers]

It has hats

[@thedolphinwithdrip7514]

I agree, but i feel like it’s a bit silly to assume any game is out to “kill off tf2”. Overwatch is meant to appeal to people who enjoy shooters like tf2.

[@d4s0n282]

@@starmaker75 100% it even has peaked during bot crisis

[@rockowlgamer631]

It has charm, the mercs are fun to listen to, the cartoonish feel of it, and while there might be a bot issue we still love this game.

[@Eon_orange]

Why is Elmaxo completely incapable of saying anything negative, sounds like Gabe Newell and Bobby Kotick have guns to his head or something

[@SaintRedFox]

hugbox/toxic positivity moment

[@flooku987]

​@SaintRedFox Doug huggem

[@skade1475]

This is such a loveletter to both games, thank you for making this video

[@lucyhagakure]

I never understood the debate between the two games, I always loved playing both

[@lavalord96]

1:54:13 Pardon me for being a doctor who fan, but It's like how the 9th doctor described the end of the last great "Timewar"; Nobody won. They all burned with eachother, and now we're alone in the universe.

[@davitdavid7165]

I remember a video talking about how it's implied that zaria from overwatch is heavy's decendant. I do think this video could have benefitted from more overwatch centric voices, but I appreciate its message

[@tymunster]

kinda wish there was one or two Overwatch content creators or players (obviously someone like Super would be hard to get, but there's a lot of Overwatch content creators with knowledge on things that are a little underdeveloped in this video.)

[@TheWhatShow]

I reached out to a lot of creators, didn't receive many responses from the Overwatch side of things

[@tymunster]

@@TheWhatShow that's unfortunate. Overwatch player pride over TF2 players I suppose (I say as someone who literally gets a scholarship to play overwatch)

[@DumbArse]

​@@TheWhatShowReading that just makes me laugh. That is exactly what I would expect from OW creators

[@СашаЛагаев]

​@@TheWhatShowdamn i hoped that at least ninja guy would do it.

[@thegoodmudkip3652]

@@TheWhatShowthat sucks. Someone like Hammeh or someone else from the OW community would be pretty cool additions to this discussion.

[@feyttan]

This is a certified TheWhat89 BANGER.

[@Yurleg]

just say first man

[@ibilesfighter3.16]

​@@Yurlegtoo quirky to say first

[@Moter.]

​@@Yurleglmao how bottom of the barrel have we gone so that 'first' isn't actually the bottom of said barrel

[@davisdf3064]

​@@Moter. We are digging the ground that the barrel was in

[@ethanhayes7038]

One thing I think was left out in regards to TF2's potential comeback are the additions of VScript and the transition to 64 bit architecture. These could be laying the groundwork for big changes down the line.

[@enderiumdelirium1132]

honestly, the bot problem with TF2 has reminded me of when Titanfall 2 became literally unplayable multiplayer wise for months with no response from the developers. The only difference being the Titanfall servers actually got fixed.

[@robetabangan598]

"The era of greatness" sun tzu art of the century

[@candidate12]

"Overwatch or TF2?" Neither Uncle Ben, Day of Defeat.

[@DrPeeper]

You reminded me that i need to try it out

[@giantmutantbug]

Dude thewhat you just dropped the tf2 video of 2024

[@Harper_Onions]

All these year I've been thinking she's called Bridget, and now you're telling me her name is Brig-geet-ah? WHAT KINDA NAME IS THAT?!

[@janitordel6296]

Yep, Brig-IT-Teh I think it's a play on Brigade, which is a military term, and Brigantine, which is a war-ship

[@oldbirbman]

I feel like now tf2 fans and overwatch fans are more united than ever bc theyre devs fucking hate them

[@YoungClarke]

I feel like I have a really weird perspective on OW. I bought it at launch and loved it, but dropped off and kinda just forgot about it after a few seasons. PvE being cancelled blowing up all over the internet was what reminded me of the game, and was coincidentally a period where my group of friends were looking for the next group game we could play. So the trigger that was what most people’s point where they ditched OW was when I picked it back up and started having fun again. I assume whatever is the next biggest controversy for TF2 will somehow end with all of us playing it, too.

[@jeg_]

The fact we let passtime die is a crime against humanity, I will die on this hill

[@Lonqudor]

This was a war both games fought, but neither won.

[@CoolSs]

won ? "Pyrrhic victory"

[@Pepcen]

won*

[@Lonqudor]

@@Pepcen AutoCorrect, sorry

[@Pepcen]

@@Lonqudor no need to apologise lol

[@llllTatollll]

Some notes on the various overwatch metas For moth meta while mercy had rez as ult most of the time at a high level it was best just to solo rez a teammate so when it became a ability it basically had it’s cooldown quartered and you still got a free 3 rez’s Role que changed the game from “whoever has more dps loses” to every match actually being having a chance of being fun also no limits for tanks and supports forced the devs to choose between mass nerfing supports and tank while mass buffing dps but that would still leave every ranked games a gamble if you had to fill support Overwatch 2 outside of the mountains and mountains of lies n shit genuinely fixed 90% of the games problems Removing a tank made every role. Flanking was miserable because there was a dedicated tank to stop you. Poking was miserable cause anytime you weren’t shooting 2 shields you had either a personal 800 pounds stalker or completely devoted to stopping every point of damage you do. And support was just healing simulator and the moment you stopped looking at the tank you’re basically giving up the match. Additionally they took out most hard cc and limited it to tanks, sleepdart, and mei’s ult So tank actually stopped being flash bang simulator and as much as I miss tank synergies half the tanks the change needed to happen. Dps actually felt important again and you actually have a chance to do damage and don’t have a personal bully. Support with the new passive and 1 less tank let’s them do there own things and it’s made a new most important play style based around doing damage and actually working with dps to get kills and pressure the enemy.

[@avengerboy2171]

1:19:52 *_"The Bre-stmilk Bandit Has Never Been Caught."_* THAT SENTENCE CAUGHT ME ALL THE WAY OFF GUARD 😂

[@HoorayForFreeStuff]

Kinda kooky that the last question of Team Fortress 2 VS Overwatch was capped by a message of hope for the both of them. Even so most of the content creators cited tf2 as their most hopeful project, which I think says something about the sheer staying power of the game. Even so, as a tf2 player myself, I truly wish the overwatch community the updates they deserve, or at least some closure.

[@thedolphinwithdrip7514]

Man, as an overwatch player, it truly saddens me that tf2 players and overwatch players will never get along.

[@edenengland1883]

i mean thats kinda what happens when the first trailer for the game drops and a bunch of fanboys of the devs pop out of the woodwork and claim itll be a TF2 killer before it even releases i sure theres a world where TF2 and Overwatch could get along but this one aint it

[@thedolphinwithdrip7514]

@@edenengland1883 well do you believe them? Do you actually believe overwatch was made specifically to “kill tf2”?

[@edenengland1883]

@@thedolphinwithdrip7514 probably not but when the first interaction the communities have is "haha your old game is going to die, stinky", that leaves a pretty bad taste in the mouth that never goes away

[@kingkrustacean2338]

I love that Skymin's first cameo is just her complaining about ow2. Peak SkyminSlash if you ask me

[@noahthecrazy1632]

The only hope left for tf2, is for the people boting it will move on in life, or get caught watching Control Points.