Jon Savage - Dusty’s wig, Bowie’s bombshell and how gay pop culture changed music

“I thought Dave Davies of the Kinks was a girl. When I discovered he was a boy, that’s when I got interested.” Jon’s an old friend of the podcast and the author of some highly regarded and influential books about pop and its repercussions, ‘England’s Dreaming’ and ‘1966: the Year The Decade Exploded’ among them. His latest is ‘The Secret Public: How LGBTQ Performers Shaped Popular Culture 1955-1979’ which looks at five particular moments and the pivotal people in the mix at the time. We couldn’t recommend it more highly and cover seven decades in this conversation, stopping off at …
… how “homosexuality was a career-killer” until Bowie’s spectacular Melody Maker interview in 1972.
… new male identities - Valentino, Nureyev, Sinatra and the “subversive” stage act of Johnnie Ray.
… does pop drive change or reflect it?
… Andrew Loog Oldham, Kit Lambert, Simon Napier-Bell and the supposed “gay managers mafia” and how Oldham used camp as a weapon.
… Dusty Springfield and the Gateway Club.
… how Brian Epstein invented a new type of manager.
... Andy Warhol at the Factory, pop art, the launch of the Velvet Underground and his jukebox time-capsule of ‘60s gay pop taste.
… was Tom Robinson the first out gay British pop star?
… Mary Whitehouse v the Gay Times.
… the Clash (“hurt, vulnerable boys”), Siouxsie, Poly Styrene, the Slits, Vic Godard and punk’s other new stage identities.
Order ‘the Secret Public’ here …
www.amazon.co.uk/Secret-Publi...
… and Jon’s 2-CD soundtrack here …
www.roughtrade.com/en-gb/prod...
Find out more about how to help us keep the conversation going: / wordinyourear

[@neilb224]

Jon Savage is a legend. A fantastic wordsmith.

[@daviddavies3944]

Hugely entertaining chat. A new Jon Savage book is always a cause for celebration.

[@_Ben4810]

I once innocently rang Jon Savage at Q Magazine (remember when they used to publish their office landline number next to the journo's name....) asking him if he could review a specific new album that had just been released. I remember him being furious that a lowly reader of Q had dared to actually call him direct, & shouted ''WELL-HAVE-THEY-SENT-ME-A-COPY-OF-THE-ALBUM-TO-REVIEW...???'' & slammed the phone down on me...! 😳😞😆😉

[@paulcoleman3081]

Great interview. I'm sure I will enjoy Jon's book. I'm reminded, from my reading of Barry Miles' brilliant London Calling, how much the various counterculture / outsider movements owe to the gay community of the '50s and '60s. It was they - their very lives criminalised and threatened - who did much to create what we came to think of as 'the underground' and forged a creative identity whose influence on popular culture is an elephant in the room of every conversation about it.

[@owatopham]

Great interview. Only snag was the comment on Jobriath. His two albums were incredible. Brilliant pianist. Had the song Ooh La La been sung by Lou Reed or Elton John it would have been a huge hit.

[@stephenhopkins7496]

Terrific stuff from Jon as usual. Although outside his remit - he died in 1951 - let’s not forget Ivor Novello, another gay popular music artist deserving of recognition. ‘Keep the Home Fires Burning’, ‘We’ll Gather Lilacs’ etc, and after whom ‘The Ivors’ awards, honouring excellence in music writing, are given. Nominees in 1964? Lennon and McCartney. In 2008? Amy Winehouse. This year - amongst others - KT Tunstall and Bruce Springsteen.

[@jlc7841]

Excellent. I wish this was longer.

[@maxine2798]

……….buy the book! I know I will

[@jlc7841]

@@maxine2798 I certainly will. 😊

[@jimquinn5316]

Really fascinating and informative interview .

[@gedlynch1]

Wonderful stuff..xX

[@sianwarwick633]

How do i get this book outside of the UK

[@WordInYourEar]

Hi Sian, I would contact the publisher directly: www.faber.co.uk/product/9780571358373-the-secret-public/ Hope this helps! Alex

[@edwardmulholland7912]

Jon is a great writer/journalist. He knows his s##t.

[@Mac-ku3xu]

Shut that door!

[@MrBrindleStyle]

Yeah! Power in The Darkness!

[@francisanosissi1]

Pomp n circumstances..

[@PontiacS.]

The Smiths original Bassist said he was told the band was going to be a "Gay" band and he was fired because he was Married and Too Butch. Marc Bolan "Came Out" before Bowie. Nobody cared and he didn't have an audience in America. Bowie just copied Marc all along. Bowie got the Accolades as a "Pioneer". It's not true.