They All Hate Modern Football

[@mikefun7482]

I want to see more players taking 40 yard shots, I want to see more attackers taking on an entire field, I want more showboating, I want more rivalries

[@thuglifeinc4894]

Musiala exists. Grealish used to play like that at Villa. Sane when he wants to play well can dribble through a defense.

[@GaliciaPheonix-nl8zd]

And when they keep doing that you would be bored of that too..

[@mikefun7482]

@@GaliciaPheonix-nl8zd Im not bored with how football is now and I wouldn't bored of the way it was played when I was younger either

[@SVAgxlxxi]

@@thuglifeinc4894two man city players 🤮🤮

[@spinyslasher6586]

@@GaliciaPheonix-nl8zd Mate I never felt bored of Ronaldinho.

[@Midtable1881]

He's right, everyone is trying pep ball from champions league to Sunday league.

[@shahir1395]

sometimes, you just gotta pull a Morocco!

[@TheMiniMaestroMan]

Brendan Rodgers in a nutshell. Celtic went from exciting Angeball to pass-the-parcel. Boorrriiingggg!

[@jimdotcom1972]

the problem is its an arms race, they're not doing it because they like it, but because they have to to win.

[@swardasaurus]

It does just happen in sport in general. Teams try and emulate the most successful version. Every team in the NBA was chucking up 3s because Golden State did it. You had teams with below .500 chucking up more 3 attempts than Golden State.

[@abasudoh7459]

The meta is ever changing, one day there will be a new way to win and everyone will try to shift towards that, and people will talk of how 2010-2024 was peak football because of nostalgia

[@jackpastor7147]

I agree. They have been saying this since the invention of football.

[@jackpastor7147]

George best complained about football in 90s. But now it is considered the best it has ever been.

[@RainHH]

There is good metas and bad ones, this is definitely a bad one.

[@Lucaz99]

I mean there’s people who already have nostalgia for tiki taka or pep ball. It can lead to beautiful moments but I was never the biggest fan. It’s very effective tbough

[@daniaaal]

@@RainHHnah, bad football is route one football. Cross inshaa to the targetman kind of football

[@mrvee5395]

Portugal tried to close Kvaratskhelia down yesterday. My cynical take is that if a coach has Kvaratskhelia and he dribbles the entire defense and scores, Kvaratskhelia gets the credit. If a coach uses a bunch of endurance athletes to swarm an opponent and win, the coach gets the credit. Sacrificing creative players to win is always going to be a temporary benefit that causes more severe future problems. Ask the Dutch. Hell, ask the Brazilians. One thing that might help would be for refs to go back to sending people off for trying to break the legs of the other team's playmaker.

[@tokinsloff312]

I was with you up to the referee thing.

[@gonebadgerhunting]

The refs have never been more likely to show red for a tackle than they are now. And the rules have never been more tailored to protecting those players either

[@dontwannaname]

There has been quite a bit of "it was better in my day" from the pundits who played in the 2000s. In 2010s, this was said by the pundits who played in 90's. In the 2000's, it was said by pundits who played in 80's. It was always better when they played.

[@alexfielding7191]

That was about the rules around fouls being more strict causing more players to dive, not the way teams actually played football.

[@pinealdreams1064]

Peak football was the late 90's

[@rottenpotato4733]

As a brazilian, I used to hear a lot about the 58 world cup team from old people. Then, they died and no one cared anymore. but the 70 world cup team was THE best, according to everyone on TV. Then, they got older and started retiring, so no one listens to then anymore, which instantly made the 82 team the best one ever, even if they lost, because the pundits either played during that time or watched it. Now, the 02 team is praised as the best ever, because my generation has the voice in the media. And wanna know what's the funniest part? Back then, before that world cup, the team was considered THE WORST (!!!) brazilian national tem EVER by so called "specialists". THAT team, with Ronaldo, Rivaldo and Ronaldinho. They were saying Lucio, Edmilson and Roque Jr were trash central defenders, that Gilberto Silva was awful, that Cafu and Roberto Carlos were bad (lol). They said Ronaldo was done, Rivaldo was shit and Ronaldinho would never live up to the hype. But then we won. Time went by, the generation that watched those guys became influential, so now they're remembered as legends. Just like you said, it's always "better in my day". Hearing that 02 team was trash by people who idolized the 82 team that got absolutely pommeled by Italy. And yet, history was written, but not according to them.

[@Lucaz99]

Yes, people are biased but I honestly think the game is more boring now than in the 00s, 90s, 80s, 70s. Even though players are just more skilled and athletic these days.

[@KanJonathan]

I get into football around mid to late 1980's, I took those times at the nadir of Football Dark Age (1962-92. The Stars at the time were the only saving graces): park the bus all the time, and bone crunching tackles which the refs. mostly turn the blind eyes. The former led to record lowest average at Italia '90 and EURO '92; while the latter robbed Marco van Basten a least four prime year. Only Rule of the Games changes reverse the trend. For me the ture Golden Age were from immediate Post War years to early 1960's, mid 1990's to early 2010's could be viewed as Silver Age, afterward Sovereign Fund totally upsetted the transfer market, corruption and incompetence of Football Establishment ran amouk (the cardinal sin of them is, the pretend there are way more than 365 days for a year, expending football fixturesto no end), procession and pressing tactic excessively proliferate to a point of near universal.

[@PigeonLord21]

I can agree football is less flashy than it used to be in the 2000's. But thats why i still love international football. It isnt quite as refined and chaos is a lot more prevalent than in club football

[@Lucaz99]

THANK YOU! I felt like everyone is saying the obvious (people are biased to their nostalgic era) but cmon! Players with flair are actually hated these days, if they do a 360, they’re a fidget spinner and a provocateur. Ffs, players are so mechanical these days like they’ve already been replaced with robots

[@justinstewart-ek9tl]

@@Lucaz99yea definitely. Enterainers are now marked as a liability in the team.

[@lmfsilva3000]

I don't even think "modern football" or "pepball" or whatever you call it is about scoring perfect goals, it's that old Blanchflower quote, "if we have the ball, they can't score" taken to the limit with a dose of moneyball style analytics that dictate what are the most effective plays, and that's what the team does. And for a good 15 years at this point, you have teams looking like they're playing handball, ball moving sideways for long stretches of time, but because there's no passive play rule and most teams don't have the flair players to make a shot, that's all they do. Pass and pass and pass and try a dribble or through ball. Barcelona was fun to watch because Messi could take a rabbit out of his hat anytime. Later Spain was often just turgid football because so many of the players were there, but the guy who did something special at the end wasn't. I've watched Lopetegui era Porto, who did a pretty good job of moving the ball around against low blocks but often couldn't shoot at goal for shit, and this was a CL quarterfinals team. Now there's teams with far worse players trying to do the same. What could be concerning is that with these highly mechanical systems, even young players with flair and imagination will be worked to become cogs in the sideways passing machine.

[@Tuck3tt]

Sergio Perez catching strays in a Zealandism video is not one I had on my bingo card!

[@ObviouslyKieran]

Checo is truly having an awful year );

[@nameanteater4772]

Everyone wants to see long shots, until it’s your team who you’re desperate to win. And you hear “Shoot” from the crowd and the players goes to striker and you think “why are you shooting from there” and it goes miles over the bar

[@Binzob]

Nah man much rather see players shoot from outside the box if we're trailing then passing it to the winger who passes it back to the fullback and then along the defence, to the other winger, back to the full back, back to the keeper, centreback, midfielder open for the pass, to the striker now, oops lost the ball. 4 shots ahh games, very much less fun than having 20 shots even if most are hoping for a wonder strike.

[@SirEEf13]

There are players out there that you can bank on at least hitting the target. Of course you don't want your 3rd choice CB to run up and shoot but even those that you would think could pull off 30 yard strikes rarely do so anymore.

[@nxt1990]

Thats the risk we literally are asking for. Those are the moments that stick forever. You take the shot, it's either you miss or you get it on target. Why do we all remember Kompany's goal? He took the shot when everyone told him not to do it, but he did. And it lasts. It's not for personal glory, but sometimes you just HAVE TO take the shot as a player. In football sometimes it just falls in front of you, and there's nothing anyone can do to make you not take the shot. Suppressing that feeling is exactly why the game's gone.

[@nameanteater4772]

@@nxt1990 “nothing anyone can do to make you not take that shot”, so it’s natural and clearly hasn’t been changed by a decade or so of positional play

[@cjpearce1407]

​@nameanteater4772 well it has because its decreased massively

[@alexfielding7191]

There aren't anywhere near as many icons anymore because modern football forces them to become more restrained and less expressive.

[@coreygrant7545]

My only argument against that would be we've grown up so we don't see current players in the same light as we did with players we looked up to growing up. Every generation goes through it. My generation talk about players like Gerrard and Rooney whereas the the generation before will say how gazza and shearer were better. There will be players now that people look up to and see as icons but we don't see it because we are comparing them to what we considered the best years of football just like the generation before and so on.

[@joseph-fernando-piano]

Absolutely, I remember seeing Haaland score so many bulldozing, lightning quick, iconic goals at RB and Dortmund, I don’t think I’ve seen him score a single goal from outside the 18-yard box at City…

[@seanspx2219]

@@joseph-fernando-piano You also have to remember how much space he was able to run into at Dortmund compared to at City. Teams do not give City any space in behind anymore.

[@milagomez55]

@@joseph-fernando-pianoyeah cause everyone is defending compressed all 11 men at the back no space in behind

[@franze4]

@@coreygrant7545the last icons were messi ronaldo xavi iniesta pirlo hazard raul zlatan modric kroos neymar suarez and neuer (maybe a few more too idk) now there’s just good players, some better than others or that fit in a system better than others, but not great enough to be considered icons.

[@defeatstatistics7413]

Sean Dyche said about this; "I would be limiting Kieran Trippier if I told him to only pass the ball five yards". all our favourite players as kids were expressive, right? Mine was Totti, he was intensely creative and often broke structures to create. Ronaldinho is loved, because he was fun. It's telling that one of the first things Pep did as Barca manager was get rid of Ronaldinho.

[@nxt1990]

I always say this. Pep kicking out Ronaldinho was symbolic of football changing into the "modern game". Him delivering 6 trophies the following year made it worth it of course, but symbolically that was the end of individuals because even Messi (despite his individual genius) was a teamplayer at the core. Pep wanted efficiency over creativity from the beginning, but it was the players quality that made it look freeflowing. Ever since City he's been creating robotic footballers.

[@StefanWB]

His relationship with Zlatan is also evidence of this.

[@Lilleh__]

The meta may have shifted away from long intricate dribbles and insane longshots being a common thing, but we still do get intricate passing sequences that are lovely to watch at times, and there are managers who play a more direct style of football aswell as those who just play the slow build up of Pepball.

[@thebiglebrowski3695]

The problem is that the teams who play that more direct style aren't the top teams. They don't have the same quality of player. And when they do, the bigger clubs sign them. Take Grealish for example. He was electric and exciting at Villa so Pep signed him and removed all of the creativity.

[@andreibarbu3444]

Watching "intricate passing" is glorified lateral passing

[@hkar4385]

​@@thebiglebrowski3695Agree. When I watch Greslish at Man City I think he can't dribble but then I remember the goal he scored against Man United when he was at Aston Villa.

[@joseph-fernando-piano]

The trend in modern football reminds me of the trend in modern Hollywood movies, where the goal is just to put out safe, sterile products with the goal of making as much money as possible without bothering about making any cultural impact or impression. Like, I can’t remember a single moment from Man City’s recent 4-peat clinching season, just like I can’t quote a single line or hum a musical theme from Avatar 1/2 or any Marvel phase 4 movie. On the other hand, I remember so many iconic moments from Man United’s disastrous but ultimately trophy-winning season, just like I know of so many terrible but iconic scenes from Madame Webb (despite not even having seen the movie)…

[@jamaalsjourney]

Football is rigged. Reality hasn't been proven. *What are we doing here?*

[@cglanner3806]

Regarding rule changes to get Football more entertaining... There were two very important rule changes in the 1990's that transformed the game. 1) The 3-points for a win making winning that more important. Now you may see both teams going for the win late in tied matches, just to get those two extra points. That type of game strategy was seldom seen in the 2-point era. 2) That the keeper can't pick the ball up with his hands when receiving the ball from a team mate. That change, first implemented in the World Cup 1994, has made inte possible to press high as teams do nowadays. Before this rule was introduced you could always pass the ball back to the keeper and be safe. It was also used late in matches as a tactic to kill the clock. Very boring indeed. So football has done rule changes to improve the game and both these changes has been a success I think. Going back further in time... about a century ago they changed the offside rule, from three players to two. Also to make the game more entertaining.

[@GalvanizeOO7]

Checo so bad even Zealand's firing shots at him

[@Kehlalam]

😂😂

[@MaeYouRIP]

I have not gotten into a Category 1 academy, but I know several coaches in them currently. I've coached for a few years now, and hopefully can carry on and get my A license. I say it because I actually think it's perverse what is going on in academies and in football. The health of football is built on the quality of coaching through academies, and the players they make. And right now, some of the best academies in Europe are killing talent, killing players, and forcing good coaches, good scouts, good players out of the sport. Redknapp recently lamented the influx of 20year old nerds who've never played getting jobs in the game, I am one of those 20 somethings that never played, but I know who he means, and he's right. There has been an influx of "coaches" who force through to their B license in record time, and do so without any understanding of players. They run shit drills from a pdf of Guardiola's sessions from 15 years ago, they copy an outdated Italian methodology from 40 years ago (Thanks De Zerbi) and complain when kids don't turn up. They draw shapes like 3223 on a pamphlet, tell kids to recreate it, and wonder why they get pumped 9-0 on the weekend. "Kids aren't good enough," they say. That young Palmer who demands the ball - it's his fault, stay out wide, don't dribble, don't give the ball away, wait for the wide routine we did for 2 hours on Thursday night to become possible, run it, and you might get the scholarship = talent lost. Nobody shoots, a complete lack of finishers in academies. Nobody knows how to tackle, how to unbalance, accelerate and decelerate, because they spend every session running routines. This makes shit players - shit players makes shit football. Thankfully some academies aren't drinking the cool-aid of the charlatan agents, jumped up scouts, and idiot analysts are trying to sell to clubs. They make talent. Brazil makes talent. But England? man, they need to shape up and kill the cancer that's festering in their academy system.

[@Rickus316]

100% me and my mates were on about this the other day - nowadays you don’t really get that edge of your seat feeling, that blood and thunder type football - like when we used to watch Brazil Ronaldo, Figo, Zidane, Ronaldinho etc

[@MarioSantos-zx4bj]

I'm really tired of what I call U-turns where the GK passes to the CB, CB to LB, LB to LW, LW to LB, LB to CB, CB to CB, CB to RB, RB to RW, and repeat

[@Binzob]

It's objectively the most effective way to play though isn't it? Like depends on how the other team chooses to play, but it gets results, so of course every team that has players that suit it will try to play like that. Not entertaining, but creates the best and most consistent chances.

[@MarioSantos-zx4bj]

@Binzob I feel it's up to luck, my team gave up 4 free chances to the opponent by having the 13th pass between CB1 and CB2 be wrong, in the same match, and all the opponent ever did was 1 or 2 forward passes and they where already shooting

[@Binzob]

@@MarioSantos-zx4bj True, does rely on the team not making mistakes which is why it's more effective at the top level and thus more common there. My team tried similar stuff in a lot of our games. Missing our main striker most of the season so didn't really have anyone to cross too and no real goal threat, yet we still almost won the league with that playstyle and having the best defence and by far the best keeper. He even gave away the ball once while passing between the backline and we conceded. We at least had a few players who were creative and sometimes would try to create something from nothing so it wasn't dreadful to watch at all.

[@parmaman8551]

Jack Grealish is a prime example of how Guardiola has removed the element of flair from football.

[@lkrnpk]

As you said, it's with all sports... NBA basketball, 3 point shooters became better so it became more of a 3 point contest instead of physical 1 on 1 game it used to be with dominating centers in the 90s and a lot of people hate that, a lot of people hate other aspects of modern day NBA too, but life is life. If a coach finds a way how to ''hack'' a certain sports and it is within rules, that is where it will move, until as you said, somebody else figures out how to break that new system. Only issue is that maybe since now sports are very stats and computer analysis driven - maybe this IS the best way how to play the sport so that could be the issue, maybe anything else than Pep ball or shooting a lot of 3s in NBA is the most optimal way how to win. In NBA they always can abolish the 3 point or move it further out, they have done it in past, with football it is more difficult, it is a more conservative sport where rules do not change that drastically

[@Anthony97279]

Zealand showing his age, Ronaldinho played more on the left flank than the middle

[@jamaalsjourney]

Ok?

[@marshalsaini9619]

That's why I love my team Tottenham,Ange's style is completely gung ho, full attack for 90 minutes

[@nxt1990]

It's very sad to see football in it's current state but I think it's more of a reflection of society as a whole. There are great young players coming up, but there's something missing. We used to watch football for magical moments. Memorable games tended to stick longer because of the lack of social media that overanalyzes everything. There was a magical vibe in the air every time because life was so raw. The technique of top players was so refined you could literally see the 10s of thousands of hours put into it. The spontaneous, off the cuff, creative & system breaking creativity were encouraged and is now being suppressed. Players had a massive personalities & mentality. There were specialists. Lack of PR media training. Fierce rivalries. Flares banners hooligans all being removed slowly. VAR not allowing us to celebrate without the overlords allowing us. Goal celebrations were loader because everyone used to live in the moment without phones. So many more things that i'm probably forgetting. It's a bit of nostalgia mixed with 95% reality. Football unfortunately has lost most of it's magic.

[@powerplant12345]

Checo catching strays from Zealand 😭😭😭

[@nsbunited]

I would LOVE to see Zealand create a video on the main channel discussing the "next progression" of tactics that has been emerging for the past few seasons. I think we're already shifting away from the more automated, positional approaches, and we're approaching a blurring of the lines between juego de posicion and relationism. I'd highly encourage a read-through of Jamie Hamilton's works to help understand the alternate approach to Guardiola's and his disciples. The future of tactics is really exciting, and I think many people don't realize that we're already shifting towards a new "meta" style!

[@mjtrommel]

For me the two Neymar and Lucas Paqueta clips, where they each got booked a yellow card for doing a rainbow flick to get out of the corner are perfect examples for what I really don't want to see in football: Punishment for creative solutions and flashy skill moves. Sure, if you are in front of an empty goal and decide to go on your knees to head in the ball, that's just unnecessary and should be punishment but not simply showing off and letting the enemy players look bad. That's exactly why we love those type of players and if the opposing players get frustrated that's there problem.

[@symptomofsouls]

Nah screw that players making other teams look stupid should be encouraged

[@mjtrommel]

@@symptomofsouls I agree. That's why we fell in love with those players. It's a important part of the beautiful game

[@symptomofsouls]

@@mjtrommel I swear if a ref booked me for a rainbow flick I'm getting sent off, no way I would be able to stay cool after that

[@taylorg8509]

As a barca fan our games were very dramatic and high scoring this year , tough year for us but at least we had goals and young players with attacking interest

[@madlad4206]

Football all around Europe was incredible this year, some clowns are just mad their "legacy team" isn't doing well or are just nostalgia merchants that can't fathom change

[@wilfredvonkarma]

The way goals were scored in the euros is indeed different. Own goals are the new meta

[@rottenpotato4733]

Let's be real, 90+% os all football matches have always been boring. I'm a 34 years old brazilian, have watched world cups since 98, italian seria A since around 2003 and brazilian seria A longer than that. Most of the times, I was deeply bored. Yes, when R9 played, Zidane, Ronaldinho and many others. More than 90% of the matches are full of boring moments and then there's a sudden burst of emotion when someone scores. Football has ALWAYS been like this. I still watch it, seeing one or two good plays and good goals are bizarrely worth all the other boring moments. This sport is weird like that. What bothers me is people pretending that it was so exciting, so thrilling, when reality is that 90's and 00's football was just a bunch of 0x0, 1x0 and, at best, 2x1 matches. But romanticism makes people misremember stuff.

[@man4437]

Yeah, it just feels like nostalgia making people long for the days when it was still boring, buf it was MY kind of boring

[@rottenpotato4733]

@@man4437 Yep, even the speech is the same. Growing up, used to hear all the time that "football sucks now, it was so much better in the 70s and 80s". Best football is always the one from our youth, best players are always the ones we watched growing up. Of course it is, because we're more emotionally invested then.

[@GizmoMcs]

i disagree, you would still watch the matches to see what R9 or Ronaldinho could do, now everyone just plays super boring and you know no player will do anything exicting.

[@rottenpotato4733]

@@GizmoMcs Have youi watched Real Madrid x Manchester City 3 years in a row in the champions league? All 6 games were freaking amazing. I'm absolutely astonished by what Vini does, or Bernardo Silva, De Bruyne and so on. Am I saying they're better than R9 or R10? No. But most of the game wasn't them with the ball. Ronaldinho played with Giuly, Van Bommel, guys who were kinda underwhelming to be honest. Yeah, there was also Eto'o, Deco and other good ones, but watching a game isn't watching a highlight youtube video, I watched a lot of Ronaldinho matches and a lot of times he wasn't that inspired. Whenever he was it was amazing, but he was never as constant as people like to pretend he was.

[@NeilLewis77]

Very true mate. I'm English and I vividly remember one day leaving my friends where I was having fun, to go inside to watch Blackburn v Bradford. It was 1995 and I was 14 years old. Within 5 minutes of kick I realised I'd made a mistake and should of stayed out playing with my friends. It was so boring I changed the channel. Football has always been boring untill someone has a shot.

[@FieldMedic4077]

This does remind me of the two line pass rule in the NHL and it's removal in 2005 to kill the neutral zone trap that was sucking the life out of hockey.

[@lkrnpk]

A long long time ago basketball introduced shot clock because same thing was sucking out the life of sport, like in football now, players would be passing the ball around for eternity trying to score the perfect basket. Now I am not saying we need that in football, to count down seconds of how long are you allowed to go on attack without an attempt on goal, but that is one possibility :D Although adding more complexity to football would make it less like football

[@j.s3300]

Olds will old

[@mayu23325]

I must add that tactics in football are cyclical, meaning, there was the time of no-pressing, then came the time of full-pressing, i.e., total football, everyone attacks, everyone defends, then this took a backseat as well for a decade, two or more, and now we're back on this Pep-Guardiola full pressing during 90 minutes types of games, but hear my words: it's going to change again! It's bound to change again. That's the very nature of the sport of football. There will always be someone with a new idea for the game, and on top of that idea, there will be someone with an idea to top that previous idea of the game, and so forth, until the end of times. And the biggest reason it will change? Because there will always be an Ibrahimovic, a Berbatov, Romario, Mourinho, Xabi Alonso and so on. There will always be some person that will impose their game upon the way the game is being played. What do you call Leverkusen's football this past season? It wasn't full-pressing for 90 minutes, sure there were moments of that, but for the most part, Leverkusen were pretty suicidal throughout their season, playing contained, long-balled, possession-less football. Look how many times throughout the season did Leverkusen got a goal in the 90+ minutes of the game, either it being an equalizer or a buzzer-beater victory goal, and that's because they didn't care so much, like a religious zealots, in keeping the ball at their feet at all times. They allowed the game to flow, and they flowed with it, thus fucking with the minds of all their opponents - with the exception of Atalanta. Xabi Alonso's tactics are basically: "the opponent will score, and we will equalize, and then the opponent will score again, and then will turn the game in our favor, while fucking with the heads of our opponents."

[@SirLelex]

I don't blame him

[@GNMbg]

I do

[@hanzi696]

International soccer has had the same problem for literally decades: Essentially the problem is there's way fewer games than club football, this results in: 1. Way more pressure 2. Way less team chemistry 3. Teams "playing not to lose" rather than "playing to win" You'll notice at the club level the top teams are way more aggressive in attack because they know over the course of ~38 league games that the strategy will pay off. However no one wants to take those chances in the group stage of a major competition & *certainly* not in the knockout stages. *However:* I don't really see a solution to the "boring" soccer you see in international competitions, *increasing* the games in an already congested fixture schedule *seems like an even worse idea*

[@ameenshihab3616]

Tf international football is more entertaining than club these days wtf are u talking abt 💀💀💀💀

[@merlinbotha363]

Guardiola is the antagonist from that Nike ad where all the star Nike athletes team up against his robot ai team (Halaand?)

[@merlinbotha363]

That and the modern game is extremely analytically driven

[@haashim1411]

Pep Guardiola did not force the majority or managers in the world to copy his ideas. Whatever is winning, people want to copy. Use your brain.

[@saimalishahid1406]

Pretty cool to know Zealand's hobby in history. I'd rather have an evolution that has so sort of front foot football as opposed one that is on the back foot.

[@manning0]

8:02 over a 100 years ago, there was no cross bar, players didn't think to pass the ball, they just dribbed and you could still score a try around 125 years ago

[@franze4]

sad but true. i didn’t get to witness much of the #10 position, but i miss it

[@waffen98]

It might just be in a stage of football that’s dull but that also means I have no reason to tune in just to be bored out of my mind.

[@Jfieldsend94]

In a non football sense, it's like what can happen in gaming. In Speedrunning, people aim to be as fast as possible, but sometimes there'll be a new trick that makes it so boring and tedious that people will completely stop playing and watching it. Similarly, games like runescape end up where everyone is doing the same thing all the time because it's the optimum way to play, but this can make it boring and tedious.

[@Will-wh6np]

I think its bandwagon hopping - a few people said it now suddenly everyone's had the exact same opinion for ages. "Boring robotic football" brought the most amount of goals in the prem last season

[@TGFLdn24]

...but it has been said quietly for a few years now.....the talk has got louder because there are two international tournaments that has not overwhelmed the majority of football fans and league football season gone has not been exactly been "peek".

[@haashim1411]

@@TGFLdn24What? Literally countless memorable games from last season.

[@TGFLdn24]

@@haashim1411 memorable for being great exciting football that even non football fans enjoyed or memorable because there has been wins that was not expected?

[@TGFLdn24]

@@haashim1411 ...But, if you enjoyed it great, there has been a few watchable moments, i just don't seem to get that impression from the reactions to football lately that this has been an exciting period on the pitch, But i guess this is all based on experience.

[@haashim1411]

@@TGFLdn24 A few games off the top of my head Chelsea 4-3 United Chelsea 4-4 City United 3-2 Liverpool United 3-3 Coventry City 4-4 Chelsea City 3-4 Real Madrid United 4-3 Wolves Liverpool 4-3 Fulham Bournemouth 4-3 Luton Newcastle 4-3 West Ham Newcastle 4-4 Luton And that’s just this season lmao, haven’t even got into the European leagues and other ucl games

[@Radamanthys4616]

I dont know what game are some of you guys watching but ive got the oportunity to watch a lot of the Euros and ive come across some insanely fun games from the most unexcpected teams and later on ive watched Copa América games that are totally different. Football its at a great place right now, and trust me ive started watching football like 2005 and back then it wasnt that much different, even more: back then big teams use to rule the world but nowadays with the help from science and statistics, lower or smaller teams can keep up with the giants and thats fun and interesting.

[@italianplastic23]

the giants are all weak and without identity now....full of hyped up players

[@jaysheriffe6292]

You said that players are better now so Pele and Ronaldinho wouldn't be as good, but the opposite is also just as possible. They could also benefit from the status quo of the modern game and become better in certain aspects of the game. While the systems they played in differ from the ones we see today doesn't mean they have no chance of adapting. These players were geniuses of the game, that would count for alot.

[@ShyGuyTravel]

Yeah I disagree with Z on this one - if Ronaldinho was coached in the context of today’s game, with his talent, of course he’d be great.

[@mythpfizer3995]

@@ShyGuyTravel If he was coached in today's game he wouldn't be Ronaldinho.

[@bramharms72]

F*ck! I'm impressed! Methods of communication in the Ottoman Empire is seriously interesting.

[@Mikehoncho2647]

While i understand the perspective of letting the game correct itself, historically, rules have always been introduced to make the game more exciting. It just happens at a much slower pace than it does in American sports. Offside rule changes, passing back to the keeper, or even pitch regulations have positively impacted fan enjoyment shows that some slight adjustments to nudge the game in the “right” direction can be really effective

[@reikahakuryuu]

Clearly the only way to solve this is by creating Football 2

[@harrypickard5775]

It’s gonna be a 3-4-3 tiki taka revolution with fluid forwards and a revolving midfield that covers the entire pitch

[@tashrif46]

The baffling thing I see nowadays is the complete hesitancy to shoot when there is an opportunity to test the goalkeeper.

[@kylejohansen689]

I think Ronaldinho would have been just as good as he was back then. Would he have been able to produce as many crazy dribbles and tricks? Maybe not. But he was an elite playmaker, scorer, and free kick taker, and he would have found ways to dominate. Also, as far as I know he played left wing at Barca.

[@buenavictoria]

I think the new thing might be Xabi/Nagelsmann's exploration of narrow, pointed attack. Which, ironically, both often feature two number 10s. They both play 3421, but that's not necessarily the relevant feature of their styles.

[@jamesholland720]

Unironically profound take you’ve made here. But where you say the euros is exciting, I will raise you to the Copa America this year. Absolute mania, fast-paced end-to-end football with old school passion and desire from all players, coaches and spectators

[@RaulEdu33]

Perhaps relying too much on systems and big data is what ruined football, it sucked out the creativity of players, they used to figure out the game with more moments of brilliance and skill. Marcelo Bielsa: "Guardiola did a lot of damage to football"

[@GamerFlair]

Its more just that players are better and fitter then they ever have been. Tactics are tactics and you always play the best way you can. Ultimately with the high skill cap across the board, along with the exceptionally high fitness levels, you have to wear your opponents down to force them into mistakes. Keeping posession is the best way to do that, forcing the opponent to move, move, move. Then your able to exploit that in the last 15 minutes of a game, when they finally do begin to tire and you have less tireness due to not having to have chased the whole game.

[@RaulEdu33]

@@GamerFlair I agree, and you are right, modern football requires elite athleticism. I don't mind any of tactics, just some of the rules that allow teams to exploit flaws in the game and the refs that allow them. I guess tactical fouls grind my gears the most, many teams get away with too many without seeing a yellow card.

[@tariqomer4678]

Guardiola isn't really the one to blame here. Coaches' job is to find a winning formula for the team and he found the best one yet. The problem is, there is only one or two counters to this type of football. There are 3 ways to play against Guardiola: 1. Outplay in his own game. Which is almost impossible to achieve. But still possible. 2. Play a very very risky and provoking style of play which is as stated, very risky. 3. Play an extremely low block and try to close whatever space. Which is the easiest option but still hard nontheless.

[@GamerFlair]

@@RaulEdu33 Yeah, tactical fouls do get very annoying, although I suppose they are better then the old, lets just break this guys leg cos his too good fouls of old! Ironically, tactical fouls are essentially what the dribbly boys now get used for. A team is never going to let you dribble though them, they will pull a tactical foul, so thats how dribbly boys get told to play, get the ball and dribble in places where we have practice set pieces from and draw the inevitable foul.

[@mythpfizer3995]

So essentially, coaches should try to do worse to please some people.

[@Felipe-kh6cg]

strong anti doping will fix this 100%. All the modern tactics are only effective because every footballer these days is running like a motorcycle and dont tire during 90 mins. They dont care about conserving energy. Its clear their training is enhanced with PEDs. Remember that Bayern that every player looked like a bodybuilder in a span of months after joining the club ? Was extremely tactical squad too. PEDs in football is almost ignored by fans and media. Meanwhile top clubs are abusing the F out of it and ruining football. If players need to conserve energy they will have to play smarter, then flair and skill become the focus over fitness.

[@craigmullen9046]

Walked away from it all about four years ago. Done with an heavy heart. But I'd just about had enough of ludicrous ticket prices,Shit sanitized atmospheres,Silly kick off days and times to accommodate Sky and TNT sport's. Manchester City fan of 40 years!!!

[@oa9606]

Checo catching strays 😂

[@StefanWB]

I know Zealand mentions he doesn't want a lot of rules changes, but one thing that I always remember on this topic is an article I read in the Athletic about Socrates, the Brazil great of the 70s-80s, who said his solution to how to make football more free and open like it used to be was simple - make it 7-a-side. He actually wrote a PhD thesis on the topic. The gaps on the pitch the creative players and dribblers needed got smaller when athleticism started to rise in the 90s-2000s and this problem wasn't going to correct itself, it was only going to get worse, so the solution was to shrink the size of the teams. I don't think this will ever seriously be considered, but I've always found that idea fascinating and wonder if a 7-a-side league could take off at some point with the kinds of players like Ronaldinho or Ozil who don't really have a place in today's game spearheading the league.

[@EmptyGlass99]

90s 4-4-2 football was - and everyone agrees with this - the best football.

[@Hhuityxcd]

Honestly I feel like the point being made simply isn't true, the rules have been changed to make peps boring football more effective. No more yellows for tactical fouls if advantage is given, to reduce cards for teams like City. Dealing out yellows and reds for simply playing football and accidentally connecting with someone also makes it so that the more defending you have to do even if you're entirely careful while doing so will result in yellows and reds meaning more opportunity for peps boring ass football to break you down. We are living in the reality that rules are being put in place to make sure the relentless grind of a Guardiola team is the best way to play.

[@kingkai18]

Just a few days ago in the Euros we saw a defender dribble the ball up through the midfield to send a pinpoint pass up to the attackers to continue the counter attack, football is alive and well people just focus on what they hate

[@Flair5010]

Football is not as fun to watch now as it was pre 2010 IMO. I think it's too restrictive now and players don't look like they're particularly having as much fun and being expressive appears to have vanished. We used to celebrate fun platers like Jay Jay and Ronaldinho, we won't see players like that again. Each to their own opinions though, I won't bash others for having a different opinion to me

[@yigitdemir3723]

I would be really interested in your work on the Communication Methods in the Ottoman Empire. Is there a way for me to reacj it?

[@Jpcraque]

Truelly next gen commentary: *Zeeland:* 5:50 " i really don't know how the outside looks like" *Also Zeeland:* 5:56 "i can go and reunite with the grass any time i want to" My boi Zeeland dosen't even know what real grass looks like after 11,000 hrs of FM 😂😂

[@kytaem]

Messi’s Barca hammered home the importance of efficiency. Top sides can no longer afford to waste possession on speculative shots and low odds take ons

[@ninjalectualx]

Reminds me of Rockies/Yankees pitcher Adam Ottovino stating that he would strike Babe Ruth out every time. All modern MLB pitchers would. Ruth was drinking beers, eating hot dogs... he wouldn't make a pro roster today without being a different person

[@newadarirull]

In my opinion Vinicius Jr. is the closest a player can be to Ronaldinho without the space that Ronaldinho had. He has mad dribbling skills, he can break a game by himself, and they have to defend him with 2-3 players every time. The problem of every team trying Pepball is that without great players it is really difficult to execute. You create chances in a lot of cases when the players are able to do one-touch passes with precision, and the last pass or second to last pass is into space so even if everything went right until you get to the box that pass demands a lot of skill and ends being too long, too short, not on the right angle, too lobbed... and that's after a couple minutes swinging the ball around. I think it's more frustrating than boring

[@TGFLdn24]

... another side of this is, the modern fan has way more options outside of just watching football. Can the football world convince the modern fan to watch its games day in day out for 10 months of the year? Playing football games, watching football KZbin shows, not talking banter online etc, we are talking about watching a full 90mins of top level football across the world, does it do enough to grab attention and full entertainment?

[@Binzob]

For me? Not often. I watched maybe 5 premier league games this season, even less from the UCL and other leagues. Which is admittedly more than the last 5 or so years, but still nothing compared to the probably 30-50 I was watching before then. Half the games are at 4am for me and I am working full time now, but I'll get up at 4am to watch a Counter Strike tournament. Football though? Yeah not gonna bother. And it's not like I don't still love football. I watch (almost, life gets in the way sometimes) every single game for my club. Men and womens. Same with the national team. Watched more womens CL games this year than the mens. I think it's just top level football at this point not doing it for me anymore.

[@madlad4206]

@@Binzob oh look at me I'm so hip

[@Binzob]

@@madlad4206 How exactly am i trying to be hip?

[@madlad4206]

@@Binzob ohh look at me I watch women’s football and don’t watch top flight football. Clown.

[@spinyslasher6586]

Let's just give these positional managers like Pep a super league and 11 robots to duke it out, since that's clearly what they want. Why bother with pesky players who might have *gasp* some level of self-expression! What's more egregious is that even my local football teams aren't safe from this.

[@jdlinthwaite]

i do think the 5 subs us a big impact on the running all game style of play, that i wouldnt mind being changed

[@beastfr0meast93]

We already introduced offside and that the goalkeeper have put the ball into play after 6 seconds. AND! the 6 seconds only start when he is able to put it into play. I don't think that many people actually know that 😅 My point is. They have always tried things out to make the game faster. They have also talked about to make it illegal to make headers because of head traumas, not from head collisions but from the force from the ball. The rules will always be talked about to fit the abilities of the player.

[@Bagster321]

5:30 Zealand already thinking of if the Ottoman Empire still existed, what its tean would look like

[@SamButler22]

If you went for a run, you would get to know what outside looks like

[@Lightflames85]

I want to cut down the game match to 60mins and then cut down the size of the field to half the size it is now. This will do 2 things faster plays and more technical plays. It should also result in more goals as players gets less tired. Then i would put in a rule that says only 4 back passes before you need to pass it over the half way line otherwise its a penalty. Then i would remove offside completely as its a stupid rule. I would also give both teams 2 timeouts during a match lasting no more then 2 mins each to make tactical changes. 90mins is to long for a match.

[@MarioSantos-zx4bj]

1:00 there's a different between being better and having the better players

[@Me-ui1zy]

I think the area where football is getting worse is the top leagues and thats not because of the players or game itself, but because owners largely can do whatever they want. It sucks, there need to be far harsher rules around what clubs can do. It destroys competitiveness

[@ryanfisch7047]

There is the MLS where there is more chaos, more exciting. But I still enjoy watching Man City because I find it beautiful in a way. Full disclosure I'm a City and a Chicago Fire fan.

[@TMan-uw5rb]

25-30 years ago I remember being told the sport was suffering an epidemic because it had become too gentle and the players too fragile. Guys would fall down and act as if their body had shattered. No one could play defense any longer and it caused these wretched dribbles where no one could shut it down without getting a card. What I've learned is that once you fall out of love with a sport because it changed, it probably will never win you back. They might turn off all the old fans and the sport may even suffer temporarily. But, the new fans will like whatever the new thing is. Don't hold your breath thinking good times will return because they just won't...not for you at least.

[@Artsom3]

Question: If we're saying athleticism has become much more important on the pitch than it ever was before - then why are we also questioning the FM match engines weight importance for the physical abilities of players?

[@pashico7082]

The expression shown by a team on the field is a reflection of the creativity of the manager. Pep Guardiola uses a system that is good for his teams. Other managers lack creativity and try to emulate those tactics for very different teams. So, not only does the repetition of a system create boredom, but also the poor compatibility of tactics and team. An example: in the past Premier League season, Burnley tried and failed miserably to implement "expansive" football tactics, and it wasn't very fun to watch. Luton Town used a very different system to be competitive with the qualities of the squad they had. Despite suffering relegation, they actually posed a challenge for most of the teams in the PL, and many people found it entertaining. I don't think it's Pep's tactics that are boring, but the lack of smart creativity on the side of the managers.

[@Imfndeadrn]

I think leverkusen has shown that wing backs will be much more important in the near future

[@eduardotorres6108]

Was it back then was tougher? For condition, & rules

[@DiotimaMantinea1]

Change is not necessarily a continuous progress into something better and better. Elite players from the 2010s, 2000s, 1990s and sometimes even 1980s received since their puberty a very professional coaching and training and scientific nutrition and whatnot. The tiny little differences in "sports science" (if that exists) cannot be so significant as to make todays athletes significantly better than those of the 2000s (and who knows if polution, plastics and the FIFA videogame obsession of many players affect them negatively). And many perceived differences in physicality may be differences in the quality of the pitch (we don't see mud anymore, which was ubiquitous in the 1980s), the ball and the boots.

[@madlad4206]

the players in the 80s and 90s did not receive nutrition anywhere close to the levels these days, especially in south america, wtf are you on about you absolute moron lmao

[@basquat76]

Pep ball only works when you have players at a certain level. But we have Brighton, Girona, Bologna and so on who's having success without having the best players on the planet. And now everyone else has to figure how to play against it and the game progresses. That is a 100 times more interesting then Pep ball.

[@Sablesuit]

Ah, so they are all turning older then 35 years old.

[@liamfenech6609]

Whats annoying about this Is that everyone tries to play this way even teams with no budget. PLAY THE WAY THAT HELPS YOU WIN!!! Look at Grece from Euro 2004 If they tried to play like Pep they would have been destroyed but they played an ugly dirty way and it led to one of the greatest underdog stories in history. Mangers don't h1help either if a defender dribbles in his own penalty area and gets dispazested by a forward which leads to a game winning goal they won't chew them out for doing something so careless and stupid instead they say don't worry about it no big deal. The way the game should by played is not Peps way it's always the way that helps you win.

[@danieldegg1390]

even at my level in a non league team in england I get shouted at if I switch the ball at the wrong time even if it’s a good, successful pass for playing ‘hollywood balls’ instead of the 5 yard pass. It is boring and I honestly prefer my 5 a side games where there’s actual freedom

[@Hachiae]

their right, we need to all go back to four four fucking two with the CB hoofing it up to the ST at every possible opportunity

[@loganadams1205]

Players and especially coaches are better than they used to be, that’s why

[@utsavdasgupta8489]

I got interested in football watching Ronaldinho in 2004. I don't think there is anyone now who could interest my son to get interested in football.

[@SamButler22]

Football styles come and go, when someone comes up with a winning counter to The Pep™, that'll become popular

[@yellowscarlightningscream8347]

everything is so systematic and robotic........ No flair, no charisma, no soul and no passion. I hate modern football too.

[@Hartley_Hare]

Agreed. The dread hand of Guardiola is everywhere on the modern game and it's made everything absolutely sterile. Flair players have no place in this, because they do unpredictable things and modern coaching doesn't like that.

[@havenharris1793]

@@Hartley_HareGuardiola literally coaches Doku💀

[@Hartley_Hare]

@@havenharris1793 One player doesn't mean anything. And, while we're at it, ask Guardiola about his team doctor.

[@Randomaccount9470]

Have you not seen that Doku is only good because he plays more freely than the rest He was never meant to take grealish's place he did that by being creative He's clearly not a tactic plan he's an outlier ​@@havenharris1793

[@haashim1411]

@@Hartley_HareDid Pep put a gun to every managers head and tell them to play like him? Use your fucking brain.

[@GamerFlair]

Players are better, especially defenders. That means trying to dribble past 5 people whilst rubbing your belly with one hand, patting your head with the other whilst wearing a blindfold is less likely to be successful then it was. If you lose the ball, players are better at moving the ball forward and therefore putting you at more risk. Players are also far fitter on average then they used to be. This means they are able to maintain defensive shape and presses for far longer then they used to be. A key part of the game now is wearing down your opponents. Thats why the majority of goals are scored in the last 15 minutes of a match. Also, Ronaldinho mostly played as a winger, not a 10. He used to cut inside a fair bit, but he wasn't really a 10. He basically had the same role Messi had, he would be played on the wing but had freedom to kind of do whatever the fuck he wanted.

[@GrahamMilkdrop]

Is it time to bring back the 4-4-2? Long ball into the box? I think I remember Graham Taylor after taking the England job, defending the long ball game by saying that statistics showed the average number of touches or passes in a team play, that resulted in a goal, was 3. The long ball game WAS the scientific approach, at that time in history! Keeper or defender hoofs it up field... the target man controls it... plays a through ball into the box as the other striker sprints to meet it and shoots... Goal! The rest of the game was body checking anyone near the ball leading with elbows and scything two footed tackles to injure the quick fellas or win possession... Then pass back to keeper and repeat!

[@tekkn_579]

In Ronaldinhos prime he was playing LW

[@EugenesBackpack]

we just need bigger goals, goalies are a foottaller than they were before. i will encourage longshots forcing teams to defend differently. buffon said this, and ive been saying it for longer time

[@keegan4877]

Thank you for clarifying how many people are needed to start an orgy

[@williamthompson2941]

I watch USL USA and Vanarama in UK - its real soccer and footie - lower you go the better it gets

[@benwilliams8667]

Anyone who says football is boring doesn't remember world cup italia 90 or euro 92. You played either a defensive 442 or defensive 532. If they measured a games XG then it would have probably been around 0.01. An average game had more mullets than shots. Football now is fun... except when teams break the rules 115 times obviously.

[@offline20012]

That Chinese cuisine joke got the like

[@Stfguac]

I could never understand what was stopping those guys from the 60s from running more. It's not even a tactical thing, was there no will to run at someone to get the ball back? What were they thinking about just standing there? When I play 5 a side, I just know that running more will likely help my team more. The willingness to run is possibly the most straight forward thing for my brain. So why weren't they running more???

[@rickybuhl3176]

Looking at Sports Journalism and Social Media over the past 20 years and it's kinda logical. We've become saturated with information about clubs and players, remove 80% of it and we have enough to talk about. Basically with Billion dollar clubs from a once not even Billion dollar industry, share holders and now owners of multiple clubs - it's a different game. I have a ball from 70 odd years ago and it's kinda between a medicine ball (iykyk) and the ol' Mitre Delta PL. It resembles the current ball the way a wooden tennis racquet with catgut strings, resembles whatever will win Wimbledon this year. My dude, I'm Danish - I'm allowed not to be excited right now.. Grateful we qualified, that alright!? Since the progression will mean we can fall back on rankings again when we can't play football..Ya-ay