They Are About To Change How You Play DnD Forever

[@hangover89]

As a dm, can't wait for my players to expect me to spend 30 hours per session making all these maps only for them to meet a random goblin and go over to his mom's house for a tea party

[@ErmacFellwalker]

This was my biggest issue with Roll20 too - I was spending ours prepping the online element on top of the actual session prep. And roll20 is much more straightforward

[@023Whiplash]

You dont make all the battlemaps yourselves?

[@Yenyen666]

Pretty sure they will have monetized this "friction point" and we're all gonna be tempted with community maps/officials maps packs in the E-Shop. Hasbro ain't stupid, they know DMs are the whales in this market

[@JSRG69420]

Thats why I don't use vtts really.

[@haydenfarstead7024]

I don’t think I’ve ever met anyone who makes their own maps on Roll20 simply for that reason. Most people just take premade layouts and use those, make small changes or maybe make your own map for a really important part but other than that you should be able to find what you need premade!

[@wogboym8]

The microtransactions and Fortnite style store will kill this I think.

[@therealncast]

Not that I'm a fan of either, but your own example works against the idea you present - microtransactions and Fortnite-style stores are both alive and well. In fact, they're so popular that we can't stop hearing about both. I don't think either will kill the VTT, but how those elements are implemented will determine how tolerable it is for each person, in turn dictating how many people actually decide to switch from Foundry, Roll20 and others.

[@rayne-c]

​​@@therealncast It's aimed at the wrong market in my opinion. Fortnite is fast and easy and targeted at an extremely young audience with no attention span constantly jumping at the next shiny thing placed in front of them. Tabletop gamers are basically the opposite of that. They're the kind of crowd that read through multi-hundred page rule books for fun. I wouldn't expect the fortinte monetization model to work as well for the ttrpg audience. Hopefully. (Unfortunately, we're also a bunch of people with more access to money for hobbies, very accustomed to spending on those hobbies. So it could go very badly in the opposite direction.)

[@whatiswhat8061]

​@raynetaylor4337 i think deciding if its the right or wrong demographic this early might be jumping the gun The plan might be to bridge both communities, to expand d&d to the ever expanding younger crowd looking for shiny things

[@enricod.7198]

Good.

[@FROST-co8tt]

Think about it people, I know it's not going to be the same as buying physical minis, but it's the same ideea

[@avengingblowfish9653]

I’m surprise that my biggest con didn’t even make your list. My biggest con is that it seems very difficult to quickly sketch out a new map or make changes to the existing one. When I use 2D maps, if the players go off map or somewhere I don’t have a map prepared for, I can usually just throw up a blank map and use the drawing tools to add in the relevant features. How long does it take to do that with a 3D VTT? Same thing if players alter the terrain or destroy a wall, it’s pretty easy to mark up a 2D map with those changes. I’m not sure how easily it can be done in 3D…

[@Parobro]

press a button, make it 2d and draw, gg

[@flashingturtle6505]

Vtt s require more prep as it's harder to do creative stuff on the fly without assets and even then it's the opposite of sketching something on a 2d map

[@Parobro]

@@flashingturtle6505 yes but u can alsways resort to 2d and blank

[@brianshea2515]

​@Parobro revert to 2D and break any immersion that the 3D element provided. I'm glad it is an option, but it leaves something to be desired.

[@mauricio9113]

They could develop a map building AI. This would greatly optimize the DM's time, and they could modify it after it generates.

[@LevelUpmmo]

The cat moving the mic portion is absolutely amazing. 10/10. Would watch again.

[@milesmatheson1142]

Another Con for the list; No surprise-cat to knock over your minis or stacked dice.

[@Digildon]

Talespire is good 3d vtt. - no microtranzaction. - use any mini you want (you dont have to buy anything). - big library with maps that users created.

[@spaceshot485]

After playing in and being the GM for games for a very, very long time, I've been grateful for the digital tools that have allowed me to play long distance. That said, the prep time for digital is just so much longer than what you can do on the fly at the table, just drawing on a battle mat or the original method of describing the scene to the players and they can map if they want to but don't have to. I keep finding myself wanting simpler tools that are easier to draw on with less need for ahead of time prep.

[@sofiamarques-vu9hb]

100% agree. But I also see them adding a feature as in "lets play" and have a curated army of professional DMs to host games, and take a cut, much like etsy. Anything that can make them money. So D&D will probably become a mega system where home DM's will eventually be less needed, and become a full, online, pay-to-play game.

[@DR.LingeringFrey]

@@sofiamarques-vu9hbI agree, except it will be AI-based software, not an army of human DMs on call. Will it work? I don’t know, but I am SURE that is their current plan.

[@sofiamarques-vu9hb]

@@DR.LingeringFrey You hit the nail in head with this one

[@danjal87nl]

A cynical person might draw the conclusion that these convoluted prep-time hurdles are intentional in an attempt to lure more people into buying all the content 5 times over for each seperate VTT platform... What? You already own all the official rulebooks? Well you'll have to buy them again to use them with our online compendium. And a third time if you want to use them in conjunction with our 3rd party VTT service. And a fourth time if you want to integrate these cool features from another 3rd party VTT system. Don't worry though, it's not mandatory. You can always make it yourself if you spend weeks learning the system which we'll change up again every 6-12 months and completely overhaul what features we support internally.

[@spaceshot485]

@@danjal87nl I hear you, but I've not been a purchaser of VTT content. I've used tools that were free. I don't yet see a VTT that improves speed of prep. I am the kind of person who would spend money if someone created something of value that saved me time and provided enjoyment. I'm just not seeing that yet. I still feel like if I have to set up a bunch of stuff in advance in a tool, then it's going to double or triple my prep time.

[@DaVeO52]

Nah. Ill use Talespire if i want 3D. I trust WotC as far as I can throw a digital firwball.

[@hkaden6815]

Talespire ❤️

[@MRDaved]

I use RPG stories and Foundry personally

[@christreedee]

No fireball in TaleFlyer … they lost 2 developers so it will be what it is for a good long while to come , no major updates planned or fog of war as it can’t be implemented into this engine, no ease of fx

[@garethhamilton1252]

Not for me. I’m an old school pen and paper guy and a mini fanatic. ( digital representation of things should never be called minis IMO. ) I’m also too tight to pay for subscriptions and my I only have a Roll20 account because it’s free and I can play with a friend who lives in Washington DC(I’m from the UK btw)

[@dicebringer]

"They are about to change how you play DnD Forever." Me, an OSR Player: XD

[@ForTheSuperEarth]

OSRs rule

[@wildwurfler2782]

Me an 5E player: Hell no as well.

[@AngelusNielson]

Piazo did that for me when they released Pathfinder.

[@michaelnurse9089]

5E is intentionally overcomplicated so you cannot play it without a computer to manage things.

[@AngelusNielson]

@@michaelnurse9089 Seriously? Have you ever played AD&D dude?

[@Vonschlippe]

I'm very curious to see how this VTT will handle user-made content. Does this open the door to a paid user-made model/mini marketplace? The kind where users provide custom minis of various quality, charge an arbitrary amount, and WotC gets their cut, say 30% of the transaction? On the other hand, I'm not sure I want a VTT where it is not easy to insert your own custom content, and you're stuck within what they've decided is allowed in-game. The whole point of a nicely rendered 3D VTT is that you're seeing the action, not fighting placeholder tokens because your variant of a monster does not exist in the in-game list.

[@trublgrl]

One of the joys of tabletop is searching out and playing with those special minis, none of which are from WoTC.

[@hkaden6815]

I like talespire because it’s a 3D VTT with a good amount of building options while also having an open market for players to put in their custom content and anyone else can just download it and use it

[@malicharton4403]

My main con that applies to every 3d dnd engine is: Homebrew is ny-impossible. Exemple, on foundry, if I want to create a custom monster, I: Grab a png make its sheet andddd thats about it. The monster is ready, looks awesome,and I can even mix in some tile gifs for spells animations. If I want to do the same on a 3d engine I have to: Learn the engine Learn modelling create a model (and most of the time their capabilities are verry limited) Texture the modell Probably do some test-runs for said model so it dosent collide throught terrain Create the sheet create the animations for each ability Learn particle adjustements And some of those engines just dont even allow you to make your own stuff. For me, a dm who's favorite part of dm-ing is creating cool interesting monsters, its an instant turnoff. (Also I have a inherant fear of subscribtion models)

[@piptarou]

Mmmm, yes. A subscription VTT that I can use with a single TTRPG.

[@TangledLion]

Personally I adore Foundry VTT. And the charm of 2D maps can't be overstated. Its much easer to kitbash the perfect 2d map you need than the perfect 3d one.

[@paulie-g]

I think this is what people are missing. The big advantage of TTRPGs over cRPGS is the flexibility having a human GM provides and the ease of creating settings, maps, and other assets - most of the time, it's enough to narrate and have the players' imagination take over. With a few dozen hours of prep overall, a GM can create a massive homebrew campaign that rivals, in narrative, a CRPG that costs millions and years to make, and beats it in depth of interaction with the world and story. If you make a DM incur the costs of doing 3D environment and map design, encode story beats in some way and so on, all you've done is put some of the straightjacket of videogame production on him.

[@garethnapier2253]

Con: If everyone is paying more attention to a map with a clear emphasis on combat, is it a role-playing game anymore, or a battle game with a bit of roleplay?

[@ansfelt8154]

Relevant point, however this critic has been going on since the release of D&D 3 in 2000 and the emphasis on combat D&D took. Basically since D&D4, WoTC wants to pair tabletop game and virtual play, and this business plan has always been in favour of combat instead of roleplay

[@sergiok6660]

I mean, tbf, D&D originated from old war games. Older D&D had you rolling up new characters mid session because your current one wasn't going to live thru the dungeon. Role-playing was just a bi-product of the way the game was designed that there weren't even that many in-depth role-playing mechanics in the game. I think why people have this sentiment about combat has way more to do with how combat FEELS in modern D&D. They simplified a lot of the mechanics of combat but lost a lot of the flavor in doing so without actually streamlining combat much at all. So, a lot of classes and abilities in 5e end up feeling like functions on a remote rather than flavorful abilities. Then you combine that with the fact that the flow of combat has hardly changed at all from its origins, and it makes for a relatively boring experience. The crunchyness of D&D's combat felt good back in the day because it felt dangerous, exciting, and unpredictable. 5e combat feels very routine and often requires a lot more DM adjustments to make it more interesting. I definitely feel like they should put some more focus into making combat feel a lot more dynamic in how it flows. Especially casters. They're supposed to be accessing this powerful and unpredictable weave when they cast spells, and 5e takes all the danger of it away. Focusing on making D&D feel risky and dangerous could be a great move imo.

[@DrakeTheCaster]

I personally find the more you can help players visualize the locations and places their characters are in, the more that enables RP. Sure you don't NEED a vtt for this- unless you can't play in-person with your friends. Then suddenly this is kinda a great thing to look forward to.

[@OnlyZipho]

there's like litterally no change to anything OTHER than combat from this

[@dirtydozen2825]

"is it a role-playing game anymore, or a battle game with a bit of roleplay?" Really?!? What on earth did you think D&D evolved from? Tabletop miniatures gaming using the Chainmail rules which is, surprise, a battle game with a bit of roleplay. That's exactly what all games ARE. Overcoming an opponent (other player(s), referee-controlled whatevers, environment, etc.), games throughout human history have ALL been battle games occasionally with a bit of roleplay. It's all game theory.

[@rydakule]

Thanks to Old School Essentials absolutely nothing affects how I play D&D ever

[@ForTheSuperEarth]

I see, another OSE enjoyer ☕️

[@rlbink2498]

Interesting video. You underestimate the total cost once the subscriptions start to add up along with “add ons”. That physical terrain and paper book is gonna look mighty appealing

[@angelalewis3645]

Yep!

[@maxwellpauric00]

Also to keep in mind with buying physical terrain and other props to use you own them forever. With it all being online in this VTT you are mearly renting it until they inevitably close down the servers

[@danjal87nl]

Don't forget the costs of rebuying it for each platform once they inevitably stop supporting it because running the servers cost more than they expected and it wasn't the money printing gold mine they envisioned in to be. Games as a service NEVER survive because server costs always end up leading to closed servers or discontinued services...

[@michi444624]

Great alternative to this 3D VTT (although not fully automatised) is Tabletop Simulator :) Our group used to play there in a 3D space, game table was there, you can change background settings (which are not so important), you can import 3D maps (as 3D objects), also 3D character models :) Every player had their seat at the table with editable PDF character sheets, every player had a set(s) of dice, objects, measurements, graphical effects (as Fireball animation) or other stuff available to them, also DM had his Dungeon Screen :D You are also free to move everywhere around the table. And it cost you basically just the app itself :) Another alternative is Divinity: Original Sin 2 Dungeon Master mode :D

[@angelalewis3645]

The very best DM whose table I’ve played at - he uses paper and markers and draws the simplest maps ever. And IT WORKS! It works great!

[@BlackyMox]

if only i could draw a straight line...

[@bustertn2014]

Absolutely. I finally graduated up to the giant white board on the easel several years back just for general layouts. The rest of the description comes from me, the DM, and of course, the players minds.

[@Erginartesia]

Not everyone can be the very best DM with only those simple tools. Some DMs want more tools. And that is all they are, is tools. The DM and the players are still the story builders.

[@kopciuszek45]

Well, I think it might be cool, but the whole point of TTRPG for me is the experience without technology - where we leave our phones and pick them up only when it's needed, for example when you need to look up a spell or ability. When everyone is in their laptops, I think that the magic in playing TTRPG is kind of lost

[@milesmatheson1142]

Abandon the phones. Use analog books or printable PDFs.

[@Backbone420]

As an older gamer that missed the tabletop scene over the years, I’m very interested in this. I just heard about tabletop simulators while trying to learn about Warhammer, and wondered if this might be what I need to finally be able to play BG3 and other games like it. And actually know how to play the games to their fullest extent and more importantly to know why I’m doing what I’m doing. I tried with BG3, I really did. But it became very obvious that these types of games whether in person or digital, have a very deep game language of their own. It’s a strong example of tribal knowledge listening to people talk about these games. Now, there are some great content creators that try their best and are very helpful, but the fact is you need to play these games with tabletop gods walking you the whole way, repeatedly, in order to learn em. And the ability for me to spin up a couple friends like that are non-existent. So thank you for this, I’ll look more into it. o7

[@BonusAction]

If you sign up for the beta on D&D beyond you could get access to it now, though it is early access so the experience may not be the most polished...

[@rootyful]

Does that VTT work better than, say, Talespire? Does it come with Heroforge integration? Does it allow to invest time and money into it once, and then use the VTT for other game systems that aren't DnD?

[@Dlnqntt]

These are excellent questions that really need answers! Though I seriously doubt that the D&D VTT will be opening its arms for other game systems to be used on it.

[@lorenzocazzoli7701]

I honestly don't think it will. It's made by WotC, so Hasbro, and they don't want a serviceable and open system and space. They want money, and this VTT is a strong contender for future best way to make it.

[@ShipWreck68]

I am very pro VTT. If anything for the pure repetition of playing the game so that you can understand the rules an multiple outcomes that most games have. This looks amazing to me.

[@claireful]

Your familiar was simply adjusting the microphone. They know what they’re doing, just go with it.

[@link090909]

Thank you for the breakdown! This only reinforces my boycott of Hasbro/WotC

[@ZeKiwiOfTheNorth]

+

[@FelixTheSpaceBear]

Good. Filtering out histrionic whining will be great from the dnd space. Now that you’ve made your stance please stop commenting on anything wotc related it’s obviously not for you

[@milesmatheson1142]

​@@FelixTheSpaceBear So, you're pro MexiOrcs and gay barista Dwarves, while removing half-races because they're racist?

[@link090909]

@@FelixTheSpaceBear actually, my stance is to histrionically whine about everything WotC does, but thanks for your comment!

[@FelixTheSpaceBear]

@@link090909 ok unironically that was funny XD I look forward to meeting you again in the comments

[@Joe-qp9ix]

I know I'm kinda late to the video here, but there is some competition on somewhat of a smaller scale. MrRipper is a popular modder for the FoundryVTT and among his list of mods is a 3D gamespace for the tabletop. Obviously it's not perfect since Foundry itself was made as a 2D VTT, but he's made significant progress with it and both are constantly improving.

[@Doughy_in_the_Middle]

My Brother in Dice, all praise be to theripper93! His stuff has me absolutely entranced. Him, I pay patreon money too. Few others are worthy of it.

[@undead_mole6809]

I want to use my imagination, not play a videogame

[@DoomSausage1]

I agree. That’s why I learned to play solo. I’m currently playing a fallout 2d20 campaign and let me say this…. I can do what ever I want!

[@tobimakkura]

And many others would like visuals, which is done through a screen if everyone cant physically meet up.

[@thesystem4025]

Nothing is stopping you.

[@grindcoreninja6527]

I agree, but we're becoming the minority.

[@johnminton2909]

For me this is a video game that I can play while also using my imagination

[@lewiskennebrew8230]

Mirrorscape is a very comparable VTT that has beat the D&D VTT to market. It's too early to tell how either will fare in the market.

[@andynonimuss6298]

Hmmm... that's an interesting one! Have you ever heard of the 3D VTT called Menyr by Nog Studio?

[@spaceyystars]

I think this would be great to be used for combat in conjunction with theater of mind roleplay :) you’d still get the great roleplay, and this would be a great tool for combat!

[@lancesummers6072]

There’s already a 3d vtt out there, it’s on steam, it’s $25, and after paying that price, you get everything there is to offer, plus you’re not locked into only dnd beyond

[@brelonwy]

Name?

[@top_comrade6677]

What’s the name

[@davidsewell9227]

I also would like to know

[@Singedbeast]

L

[@LarixLyalliiAlpine]

TaleSpire is what you're thinking of.

[@jeremiah9713]

I use a TV installed into a large table, so we make maps using Dungeon Alchemist or find animated ones on KZbin (you can use anything really, doesn't matter), and then we use real life minis and place them on top of the TV.

[@BlackyMox]

damn, wish i had the space for such table, or the knowledge how to build one for myself. Anything handcrafting is impossible for me

[@jeremiah9713]

@@BlackyMox no experience here either really, my step dad and I just took a few measurements and a trip to home depot and then with a few sketches made the table over the course of a week. it was messy but the outcome is super worth it.

[@BlueCyberPhoenix]

2:51 Back in the early designs of Microsoft's Surface (when it was a table and not a tablet) Wizards of the Coast (WotC) or Microsoft (I think it was Microsoft, but it could have been WotC) was visiting a University and happened to pass by room where programmers (I'm pretty sure they were programmers) were playing D&D. They enter the room and talked to them about developing software to run on the Surface that would display a map, allow you to set minis onto the Surface table, and the Surface would be able to read a chip on the mini. The Surface would also be able to track movement, read dice rolls (I think), track hit points, give visuals to spells (in 2D), and few other options that I don't remember at this time. Sadly this was scraped because of how expensive the Surface table was.

[@LoveProWrestling]

And how long does it take to make these fancy pants encounter areas? If that was something like Fallout 4 you are talking an hour or more to line everything up and decorate it real nice, looking through menus and adding barrels and candles.

[@chongwillson972]

@LoveProWrestling if i had to guest it might have an auto decorate function.

[@superhunksickle]

​@chongwillson972 which I'd guarantee you need to pay a premium for

[@quillogist2875]

They day it's quick, but we can't know until we can try it out.

[@jem5x541]

I’ll certainly check it out - key points will be hardware requirements (not everyone in my group has a PC with a gaming quality video card), and cost - if all players need a subscription thats going to be a no-no. Million dollar questions will be a) will the 2D maps continue to be supported, b) is this going to be 5.5 rules/characters only, and c) will maps for published campaigns (which include 2D maps if bought digitally) be made available?

[@TheOptimismprime]

Having several groups where in person is a impossibility practically… I like this as a substitute for just playing through discord

[@lynnskelton7971]

For me, I just gained access to over a thousand really good maps and many of those have a 3D look. I simply project them on my 43” TV using OwlBear Rodeo and then the players use their minis on top of the TV (with screen protector). I also add terrain minis also, where it makes since, like doors and such. That way I can still use fog of war. It works for our group. However, I am considering getting TaleSpire & using it to provide an even more 3-D effect. What would be really cool, is if someone would create the graphics to where if you were just wearing 3-D glasses similar to those at movie theaters, that way the players would see the terrain in 3-D while they move there minis around. Now, that would be pretty cool.

[@aru.tortuga]

I'm so excited for this. Waiting in my emails for my player keys and download link haha.

[@ZdarskyGeno]

I think Foundry VTT will still be much better for customability, especially when it comes to homebrew and complicated mechanics. Talespire is not bad for 3D, but I am assuming this will be better.

[@Dlnqntt]

There are a lot of 3d map makers out there that allow for you to use them as partial VTT's, but they are clearly insufficient and don't support any actual rule set. I would love to see more out there that are like what this D&D VTT is looking like. 3d VTT would be so nice to have access to, for details, level variations, and so many other things for those of us that don't play D&D.

[@Death_Lord_Eleressai]

Tabletop Simulator already does all this and better, with plenty of free user-generated modded content, and plenty of room for homebrew. If this is like D&D Beyond, they'll want to charge you for every bit of extra content, and I guarantee it won't be flexible enough for modded user-made content or homebrew rules/content.

[@thrice1084]

Another game, that's 'out' in early access since 2021 is TaleSpire on steam. From what I've seen looks great, they have maps/models for non D&D things, and it's a single price with no subscription. The only big difference visually is that the D&D one seems a bit more 'pretty' and flashier spells/etc, and TaleSpire really looks like a true tabletop game in action (modular pieces format with some of the visuals as well like IRL pieces you'd own and paint).

[@Dicyroller]

My main worry about the D&D VTT is that they will charge the DM for not only the books on D&Dbeyond, but for each dynamic token. Want to have a cool 3D token of Tasha, or Gilmore, well that'll cost you. You can have a flat disk that says the name or pay. That is my fear.

[@audu9321]

It is remarkably similar to Talespire, which has existed for sometime. They arent changing anything. They are trying to play catch up.

[@Izlude84]

Yep, I came here to say the same thing. Talespire is better than this in every measurable way... Sans the spell effects... But I prefer the fact that Talespire looks like a table top and we use theater of the mind... Like you hope people wouldn't forget it's integral to the game... And then there's already tons of D&D campaigns that players have already mapped out for FREE.

[@kjeason6508]

I started learning dnd a year ago and when I started DMing, maps and terrain were expensive. So I went digital. I’ve since played physical games and stuff but for myself, I still do digital maps. So I’m excited for a vtt on the website I already use to track everything.

[@bluesnake4626]

I hope its like how most things on dnd beyond work. Anyone with an account can use it, but people with a subscription get a wider access to tools and such. That way my players who just has a standard free account can still use it, but me as the dm with the paid account can make the maps and run everything for them. That is if they are going with a model that has it tied to subscriptions at all.

[@TheDimonTube]

They are gonna milk the hell out of it so I will avoid it as much as I can as a DM. I personally enjoy making my own things on Blender and play on Tabletop Simulator.

[@guardianfail8067]

I currently use the 2D maps in person. We have a tv on the wall that has the player map pulled up so I can reveal the map from my iPad. Though combat we're typically using theater of the mind.

[@siderisanon7860]

I have enjoyed using Foundry VTT as my map solution at our in-person game and think a 3D setup would be great. Unfortunately, I fully expect Wizard's of the Coast to vastly overprice the terrain sets and miniatures to where this prevents most tables from having a good experience. I also consider being locked in to just D&D to be a big negative as I've run dozens of systems in my years of gaming.

[@brianburmeister598]

I am really looking forward to this, but I have a HUGE question, which no one seems to have an answer for yet. Will Wizards of the Coast go back and make 3D maps for all of their previously released 5e adventures?, or will we have to create these maps ourselves using Sigil?

[@nrais76]

To be clear, they're about to change how SOME PEOPLE play D&D. They will not change the way I (how do put that in bold or increase font size for emphasis )play D&D. Except perhaps for cementing that I'm not playing any future versions of it. But then it's not changing the way I play it, unless not playing it counts as playing it. I've been playing 2nd edition for decades, and I'll continue to. For 5th, I have a stack of books now, I don't need any more, and in fact I'd like less. I may replace my stacks of 5th edition books with Tales of the Valiant. I have tiles and mats and tokens and minis, but we've been playing theater for the mind for decades. Everyone I and my friends and my kids usher into the hobby will also likely see that as normal. So the tradition will likely live, as it does at millions of tables. Also, microtransactions. Also, play a bunch of games. Also, will never be playing an rpg which has a subscription. I'm poor. If I wasn't, I have aging cars, aging house, aging me, kids with medical needs who are almost college/trade school age... I'll spring a couple hundred bucks for core books and then we're done, and I'll complain about the price in proportion to how closely the actual price gets to that $200 benchmark.

[@mattie4231]

Just pirate books, use Foundry, and use wikis for quick references. Fuck corporations

[@RobbieG17]

7:20 Fantasy Grounds has been really good. I play with a group that's from a bunch of different countries once a week, and have been doing so for years. Constantly being improved, and you can play more than one system using the core software, (provided you purchase the content for it.)

[@MrBCWalker01]

WOTC want to abandon Tabletop for Videogames because the latter medium is orders of magnitudes more profitable, socially acceptable, and therefore possessed of far more appeal to Normies. Now consider that they would be stupid to not make this mobile-friendly (at least usable on a tablet, if not phones), and that they're working on Bots for friendly NPCs to use with it as well as Bot DMs, and what you have is where WOTC wants to take the Brand: to make it something you do BY YOURSELF, on the go, as you go about the rest of your business during the day. They want to get into the online Whaling game, hard. "But this doesn't affect me!" Until it does. When your group disbands and you want to start another, how much harder will it be to get prospects to play Tabletop when this is the norm? How about just having to recruit one new guy because someone had to leave (or got the boot)? So long as you continue to play the game in the manner that you're used to, you will run head-first into a hard stop when the Network Effects that formerly made it easy to find players turn against you and now you have to either bring in total newbs (who you may lose to WOTC because they will always be easier and more convenient with far more people to play with) or you have to completely rethink what this hobby it and how it works. Yes, even you grogs that have been at it for over 40 years. This is _huge,_ and it will affect you sooner than you think. You have to get ready for it.

[@thomaschapman6530]

I run a pen&paper group for 30-50 year olds that is a blast. Nothing for us is going to change. I also run a group at my local high school. Everybody uses D&D beyond on their phones. They might be the ones who would want to switch, but they can't even afford to buy their own books. The problem for WoTC is that they are targeting younger people with less disposable income. And you know the reason they are investing so much into the VTT is they plan on squeezing a ton of money out of their customers with microtransactions; probably more than a lot of their customers can/will pay.

[@ThisIsCrazyGamer]

I only use visual maps for big key moments such as boss fights anyways. So something like this could be cool once in a while for a major moment.

[@stateofhibernation]

Its definitely cool for those who want to use it. Perfectly fine either way. I'd actually love if they could make it work on phone too. My friends and me could play whenever and where ever we want. Just pull out our phones and play. Or if someone doesnt have a laptop they could join in at the table. Or the dm could make a lobby and pair the screen to their smart tv. Probably a pipe dream but there is potential assuming they don't absolutely mess it up (i don't have high hopes lol.)

[@wellofmanyworlds]

They aren't going to change how I play ttrpgs (I don't play WotC/Hasbro hijacked IP). I still play at my table with paper, pencil, dice, minis and terrain. Boycott Wizbro. Don't feed the trolls!

[@kunzie2005]

I will most likely figure a way of incorporating this into my games. I DM for a group of work friends who never played growing up and now have interest. I enjoy playing with these people but their memories are god awful. In combat we spend more time trying to figure out what dice they roll, what modifiers they get. Explaining dual wielding with extra attacks. Every turn! For me the perfect VTT would be one in which the DM controls/hosts the game virtually. The players can then access the game and control their character from an alternative device. Such as a phone, iPad, or Chromebook. They have full access to their characters stats, skills and actions. But the DMs computer is what hosts and then broadcasts the game on a tv screen or something for the group. Also this would help reduce my power bill because I could turn off my 3D printer and not have it running 24/7.

[@HastyClip]

I see a lot of concerns about the increased time required to prepare for sessions using digital tools, and I agree with those points. However, when it comes to a company as large as Wizards of the Coast, they have the resources to integrate AI into their software. Imagine if, instead of manually placing every detail, you could simply describe your scene, and AI would create it for you. You could then easily edit and adjust things as needed. I think this could be a game-changer for Wizards, fully integrating Dungeons & Dragons into the digital age with a beautiful 3D environment. It would also address one of the biggest challenges for GMs-making prep time much easier and faster. What do you all think?

[@GMToolbox]

Getting map tiles you want will break the bank. I will stick with a traditional VTT like Foundry where I have all the control and make whatever I want. I can even do 3d!

[@Eladdan]

That depends on if you even use a 3D VTT. Not all laptops can handle a 3D VTT, I know mine would cry in a corner if I even looked at Talespire, much less Tabletop Simulator. Many players, though, are happy with flat map VTTs like Roll20 or Owlbear Rodeo. Especially when they're free to use. And then there's those who aren't going to be adopting the upcoming 5.5. It's taken all of the bad features of the books from Tasha's and newer and taken away the 'optional' tag. Players like myself refuse to use those books, not without reversing the damage. A whole version that's mostly damaged goods... yeah, not for me.

[@Will-O-King]

Yeah....TheDnDbeyond requirement is a no-go for me. No third party or homebrew content really ruins any reason I'd play the VTT. I'd say I'd rather just stick to Foundry, but I'm half worried they're going to end up shutting it down to shovel people into playing the 3d VTT. We'll see.

[@abirdnamedwill]

Truly astonishing the consistency with which WotC and the team behind modern D&D can simply not manage to compete with the content created by the general TTRPG community at seemingly any level.

[@FattyMcFox]

I am rather pessimistic on it. I don't think the features that are a priority for me will be accounted for or available without massive cost. I also know i can not trust WOTC to have my well being in mind. I will stick to flat maps and my imagination.

[@jynirax]

They changed the way I play years ago when I left for greener OSR pastures and never looked back. This modern game is almost unrecognizable. I’ll keep painting my own physical mini’s and building terrain.

[@inFamous_Izanagi]

As someone with aphantasia, this is amazing💜

[@crankdoughnut6923]

Are the mini figs still going to cost 20 dollars a piece? Like oh we came out with some new monsters in a future set and it’s not on the VTT so let’s make everyone pay for it in micro transactions and slap a 20 dollar sticker on it.

[@ForTheSuperEarth]

The core essence of TTRPGs is an actual TT not VTT. RPGs where supposed to wake up your creativity, to enhance it. Hell RPGs in their core where designed to meet in the flesh, and this is where the beauty of TTRPGs lies, in imagination and social interaction. Inventions such us these will kill the true RPG experience for new comers. This is why people should play OSR systems first.

[@superhunksickle]

I agree, otherwise it feels like a video game. And at that point I'd rather play bg3

[@DeusMachina71]

I'm still playing BX, 2nd ed and OSR.. The only thing that Hasbro WotC has changed is the direction my money goes and its not to them 😂

[@sammarvel8]

I think it will be really fun to play on this for online games but for regular in person DND I don't think this will ever be able to match the fun that imagination brings to the game

[@SkrillDisc]

Competition can be a good thing for the consumers.

[@milesmatheson1142]

WotC needs to rediscover capitalism.

[@rukysgream]

One thing I haven't seen anyone say: it's hard enough to find a table and get a regular game going with a group that can actually gel together well and remain committed to the schedule. Do you really want to be paying for a subscription service you can't even use because you can't find a decent table that you can play with?

[@theophrastusbombastus1359]

@3:57 I never have dndbeyond servers go down on me. Not unless it's birthdays and anniversaries

[@davidhall1311]

Graphics and convenience’s is outweighed by needing top of the line computer and being trapped into only their games and those who put their product on dnd beyond.

[@dicoterra6113]

i also think that with the books being digital only and sub required means you are only leasing your books and dont own them. this removes your ability to play at a internet free location such as a cabin.

[@1.wagner841]

It’ll be super cool, just hope the pricing is good

[@ArthurGiuliani]

yeah, will keep using the good old Tabletop Simulator, for me as a DM i still can use whatever i can find on the Steam Workshop totaly free and can use with all my tables

[@jordellfreshbreeze7133]

Con: minis and terrain you already have

[@paulevans4905]

My books are paid for.

[@Xegethra]

I like 2D, because I can just AI tokens and portraits to my liking. There will be much less representative characters for 3D models. Especially for things like Cyberpunk. I can do basic 3D modelling, but it isn't quick to do and would just be a hassle. I do like 3D environments though but I'm sticking to 2D top down. Since we play with pretty much everything visualised, it's just easier to visualise in flat 2D. I know I'm speaking in general terms here.

[@Maven1999]

My preorder email says this "Your Project Sigil Gold Dragon mini will release this fall. "

[@jonhunt1419]

Never giving up books, miniatures, dice, paper and pencils. No one I play with wants nor uses digital anything neither.

[@Snulge]

Honestly i've been loving Roll20. It's not quite as feature packed as Foundry (not even close) but the simplicity makes it easier to learn and i really like the lighting features. Once i got books using Roll20 it changed everything. It was like going from vanilla skyrim to modded. I want to play the DND VTT but i just know they are going to monetize the hell out of it. Not to mention i can't play pathfinder or DC20 or Daggerheart or any other game on it.

[@calinyx]

This full 3d is amazing. They should outsource the Larian Studios

[@KingsNerdCave]

Looks really cool, would love to try it. But the idea of all the costs that coincide with it, it could repel a lot of people, myself included since I could just use roll20 for free. Now being able to eventually design/model your own monster pieces and putting them in it, that would be huge.

[@LordRubino]

Do you think they going to release the 3D version as Demeo battlemarked?

[@Maxwellmcawesome]

something i think is missed on the vtt vs maps thing is that we don't know system requirements yet for the vtt, so maps is going to still be more accessible to more people if the vtt requires any kind of graphical requirements (looks like it will) this is why i'm already quite partial to the RPG Engine as my vtt, as it has full 3d movement and terrain but is system agnostic and bad computer friendly

[@quillogist2875]

I like Maps more than I expected. Combined with encounters, it's working pretty well for my group, so far. Without all the versioning and mods of something like Foundry. It just works.

[@solvult7284]

part of the fun of owning physical minis is that u actually own them

[@phloog]

Seems like a lot of these demos feature folks with Alienware laptops…can’t wait to see how this runs on “real” computers

[@ramirobot]

Recomendation for an amazing 3D VTT, Talespire: Fantasitic, no subscription model, pay once use forever. Fantasy AND Sci-fi. And has no direct connection with D&D, play whatever you want.

[@rickrogers8735]

Speculation: It will change their releases from book releases to monster, class, item and setting packs as well. Instead of getting 10 new subclasses, 2 classes, 30 monsters, and 15 magic items, plus other miscellany in one book for $75, expect all of it to be online only and the total to come to $200ish, because most people won't buy everything. But the assets will be bundled to ensure that the minimum transaction meets their revenue goals. Not-quite micro transactions. Time will tell.

[@PunknPixels]

if you're thinking about the WoTC vtt, build a map in dungeon alchemist instead and export it elsewhere lol. Heck, you can control the minis put down and functionally use it as a vtt itself as long as you have physical dice and sheets

[@PyroDraco91]

No competition?! 3D VTTs are already on the market :D And they do not charge extra

[@zacharynyberg7007]

In 6 years since it’s still really crazy early access.

[@natural1maps]

I am curious, what about Talespire? It has a very similar feel, and while it might be on early access, is it not considered competition to the VTT that they are trying to push?

[@IkaikaArnado]

It's made by the same studio that made Demeo. It's gonna be compatible with VR as well. I'm 100% on board if it's just as good as Demeo.

[@TheTerrainWizard]

WOTC does not currently supply all the VTT materials we require to run for 2D online games via Roll 20. Why would the 3D VTT would be any different? Every VTT module I have purchased is missing crucial maps and tokens are frequently a red circle with the name of the NPC or monster instead of art. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@ChippyWhippyMeow]

Talespire is the real goat of vtts

[@JasperSkallow]

I bought the 3 books separately and will have to ask for the dragon etc.

[@mrkripo6227]

Everyone who plays dnd on the internet: Lets make it look as close as we can to Baldurs Gate 3. Meanwhile me:Okay, lets draw personal map in photoshop so it looks as close at it can if i would draw it irl on paper

[@ramshacklestudio]

dungeon alchemist is sorta competition but I'd love to see additional competition