They didn’t teach you this about the Rapture! … The Rapture Debate- Part 5

[@dustinwilcox6821]

Enjoy everyone! There’s one more concluding video in the series to come soon!

[@onetakendotnet]

I doubt the Day of the Lord and the rapture are the same thing. Paul is saying the wrath (Day of the Lord) comes AFTER the AC is revealed. I think imminenence is clear in Matt 24:39. The wicked won't see His coming is near. I think they only thing they will see is a flash of light and dead bodies (Luke 17:22-37). Berean Standard Bible - And they were oblivious, until the flood came and swept them all away. So will it be at the coming of the Son of Man. They will know the Lord is coming when the great tribulation is coming to a close in Rev 6:15-17 and Luke 21:26.

[@dustinwilcox6821]

@@onetakendotnet so you take a Pre or Mid stance then? 🤔 how do you explain the grammar in 2 Thes 2 then? Why is Paul introducing both a) our Gathering b) His Coming and c) the Day of the Lord and then not discussing some of them? 🤔 Imminence doesn’t exist for the church, we will see the AC and apostasy first. Imminence (and the context of the passages you referred to) is applicable only to unbelievers and the unprepared. It’s a thief for them, but not for believers. This is the only conclusion that can be made when looking at the terms from the larger scope (as opposed to presuppositions).

[@onetakendotnet]

@@dustinwilcox6821 Thanks for the reply and the video! I appreciate your willingness to discuss this subject. If you assume verse 1 is about the pre-trib rapture, I would agree, we will see the AC. However, I am not convinced Paul is writing about the rapture. He is writing about the 2nd coming (coming and gathering is one event) and the wrath to come. The Day of the Lord is always described as wrath (judgement) and then the coming in the old testament. If Paul was writing about the rapture, I find it strange he then continues to write about the 2nd coming starting in verse 8 (whom the Lord Jesus will slay with the breath of His mouth and annihilate by the majesty of His arrival). Why write about the 2nd coming if the rapture removes us before the wrath? As I posted on Part 1, I believe Paul was a post-tribber. I am pre-abomination concerning the timing of the rapture. However, I think He is more likely to take the church before 9:27a (pre-trib, aka pre 70th week). With the Holy Spirit empowered church on earth, it would be difficult for the AC to confirm the treaty, take power over 10 nations, consolidate power by removing 3 nations, deploy the mark of the beast, and declare himself god in the temple with church yelling from the rooftops, that's the guy! The church is the restrainer (verses 6-7). Most English translations use "what" to describe the restrainer (biblehub.com/2_thessalonians/2-6.htm). Why didn't Paul say the church is the restrainer? He probably didn't know. Neither Peter or Paul comment on the words of Jesus in Luke 17:22-37 of which I believe is the pre-trib rapture without a resurrection (verse 37). Why have a resurrection (body change) pre-trib? Do those in heaven today need a new body (1 Thes 4:14b)? I would say, no! Paul wrote we will have a body in heaven (2 Cor 5:1-6). It is a heavenly (spirit, non-material aka chemical chart of elements) body, not earthly (1 Cor 15:40). At the 2nd coming, the saints will need a glorified earthly body. 1 Thes 4 is about the 2nd coming. onetaken.net/rapture.pdf

[@dustinwilcox6821]

@@onetakendotnetI think some of your views are fascinating. The theory that the Apostles and Jesus disagreed about when the Rapture would be is interesting. I suppose this can’t be proven nor disproven. The issue I discussed somewhere in this series regarding Lk 17 was parallel passages. The discussion about people being taken/left has parallel passages to the Post-Trib Rapture of Matt 24. I think this weakens its support for PreTrib. (Lk 17:35-37// Mt 24:27-31) (Lk 17:31 // Mk 13:14-15 // Matt 24 & 2 Thes 2 & others).

[@onetakendotnet]

@@dustinwilcox6821 I wouldn't say the apostles and Jesus disagreed. Jesus was the teacher and the apostles were the students. Sometimes the students don't grasp everything.