They Were Coached! LDS Lawyers Tell Fairview Church Leaders to Push the Steeple Doctrine.

In this audio clip, LDS church lawyers answer questions from Fairview, TX local church leaders and coach them prior to a Town Council meeting to discuss the proposed McKinney Temple.
Local church leaders have questions about claiming that the height of the temple steeple is an integral part of their religious worship. They question why this needs to be emphasized so strongly.
LDS lawyers explain that they must insist on the steeple height. as well as the mass of the walls, and the light, etc... for a religious legal work around so the temple can be built.
They inform the local church leaders that the Prophet and First Presidency do not intend to back down on the height or size of temples.
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[@daisybee1439]

It appears that the LDS Church is being a bully.😢

[@doctortcomics2576]

“The size of those walls are significant.” What a bunch of horseshit.

[@QuinnPrice]

Bishop: Are you honest in all your dealings? Temple Patron: No, but I lie for the Lord. Bishop: Okay, you're worthy to enter the temple.

[@davidtaylor5189]

My bullshit meter broke because it was so overburdened!

[@Jsppydays]

I actually thought the LDS church was above this. But it gets worse, members support this behavior.. No integrity no moral values and I don't think lying for the Lord is a good idea. Do you think he's on your side? Not so sure about this.

[@chrystallhernandez6947]

Listening to this is sickening

[@BrianTerrill]

Yet no one forced you to listen to it, freak

[@mtddmtdd1]

Wherefore by their fruits, ye shall know them.

[@donnellallan]

STARS draw one's thoughts towards heaven! STARS! How can these guys not comprehend that?! Interesting that the law they lean on to get their way comes out as "our loophole" on the transcript. Thanks for all you are doing in this arena, Mormonish!

[@puppy7505]

Can we please have the church's lawyers explain what a RAMIUMPTUM is in front of the city council. Then ask them to explain why the BoM specifically teaches against it.

[@amaugh01]

For those who worshiped on the ramiumptum, it was an important architectural feature of their worship. Just because it was an example of people who were worshiping incorrectly doesn't mean that it wouldn't have been protected under US law.

[@Gideonslc]

Perfect!

[@Gideonslc]

​@amaugh01 just because it's protected doesn't mean it's moral.

[@China-Clay]

Members would do best for the church by just not talking anymore, this is how Prop 8 in California was, it’s back firing quickly

[@BrianTerrill]

Prop 8 never backfired except that some in church leadership forgot we got it passed and ran and hid like puppies with their tails between their legs.

[@annwood6812]

Second hand embarrassment abounds. Also, the word is Christendom (t is silent), not Christian dumb, and if the church wants to join the club maybe they should get the name right. And this is so reminiscent of great and spacious buildings the irony could knock you over.

[@mormonishpodcast1036]

Mormondumb?

[@annwood6812]

@@mormonishpodcast1036 Looks like it!

[@MoreWordsPlease]

That jumped out at me too. You claim to be a Christian but don't know how to say the word "Christendom"? I also was thinking of the great and spacious building, the rameumptom, and the tower of babel. Do they read their own scriptures at all?? Building tall, ornate buildings, and worshipping where everyone can see you, is not where it's at. I'm not religious at all but not even someone like me could be so spot on at being the villain in their story.

[@Wander2WildBlueYonder]

Tithing at work to build tall spires. Rejoice.🤑🤑🤑🤢

[@BrianTerrill]

Many classic church buildings have tall spires, this only passes off the atheist left who frankly don't belong in America anymore.

[@rooheath]

“The mass of that building touched you..” WTF? Show me on the doll where the nasty mass of the building touched you and we’ll make sure it doesn’t do it again 😂

[@raymondraino]

Maybe they should start bearing testimony that everything about the temple was carefully calculated to point directly at Kolob. Just like the Egyptians.

[@customerservice95]

The most heartwarming part about this video is that the church's grip on its members is just loose enough does someone felt empowered enough to record it

[@IAmJustOneMom]

Attorneys even gaslighting the local “leaders” is so insulting to these people who are just trying to do what is right for the local people and members. Lying is so very unattractive and unhealthy. Those lies will soon be cracks for the once trusting saints.

[@sleepycalico]

Conceding that steeples aren't doctrinally required made this a scarily good rebuttal to Nemo's brilliant laying out of the truth. "We want that steeple because we like it," carries more weight than the original blathering because at least this is the truth of it. But, "We like it," just isn't a factor for the law they've been using to force design approval. Light pollution would be the most disturbing consequence for ignoring code, I think.

[@janetbucknell592]

At 3:04, that coach/attorney claims "they get wonderful architects to model the area" and create inspiring designs. ARE YOU KIDDING ME? As an example, the design laid out for the Cody Temple looks like every other Lego block building that has been proposed or built in the US over the last few years!!! If there were actual architects, they did no "modeling" of our historic western town!

[@doctortcomics2576]

“There are a lot of people that can’t go there, that hope to go there someday.” Who the EF are these people? Eight-year-olds?

[@charlesmendeley9823]

Maybe poor people who cannot pay 10% because they need 100% to make ends meet?

[@MrRaythMandblues]

My thoughts exactly. 8-yr olds making a bunch of excuses. Fortunately it seems the counsel sees through the BS. Sadly, that may not be enough to stop the juggernaut bully.

[@RebeccaRaven]

Who needs prophets when you have lawyers? Stop your tithes. They are paying for this.

[@BrianTerrill]

In America everyone has a right to legal representation.

[@katie17330]

​@@BrianTerrill This is not about a defendant having the right of legal representation. It is about a large, wealthy organization with a team of lawyers putting pressure on a small town with much, much fewer resources.

[@BrianTerrill]

@@katie17330 moron, everyone has a right to legal representation in the United States. That's the way it is done here moron.

[@BrianTerrill]

@katie17330 stop deleting my comments. The right to legal representation in the United Stayes is universal. Don't be a moron.

[@katie17330]

@@BrianTerrill I'm confused about what point you are trying to make. Also, this is not my channel, so I'm not sure why you think I'm deleting your comments.

[@rooheath]

They are gaslighting themselves - absolute jokers.

[@Bazcole93]

I love how they bang on about how the architecture is designed for the area. They look very cookie cutter to me

[@christinaheath3442]

Not only that, but if it were TRULY designed for the area, LDS Church Leadership would be adhering to local laws and not bribing local officials and using honeyed phrases to get their way.

[@Rjrupert555]

This might be one of the grossest displays I have ever seen and that says a lot considering that I am a EMT.

[@kathrynclass2915]

I know I’m preaching to the choir, but if as this gentleman says, “you won’t even notice [the spire] unless you think about it” then how is it THAT important for pointing people minds and hearts towards god or toward heaven?

[@kathrynclass2915]

Okay, he answered my question later. He said that people who can’t go to the temple that day but wanted to could see the spire from their home and have a memory of when they went to the temple. Can’t that be accomplished by the temple picture that most members have hanging in their home? Can’t someone just think in their mind about it if they’re wishing that hard that they could go? They can ponder or meditate on the temple experience. No one NEEDS to see a spire to do that work

[@richardjones1699]

They have no shame

[@ShirinAskari]

I’m genuinely curious…. what about all of those smaller temples that have been built around the world with or without a steeple that WOULD fit within the zoning regulations in Fairview …are those smaller temples any LESS HOLY in the “eyes of the lord or in the eyes of LDS members” than this 173’ one???

[@user-ri7xo7uv1q]

Temple worthiness question: Do you fully support very tall temple steeples and spires?

[@MoreWordsPlease]

When I was interviewed for my temple recommend in 2014 I was asked to denounce Kate Kelly and Ordain Women. 😂 So yeah, you're probably not far off.

[@spencerlercher4059]

I didn't realize the Tower of Babel would actually become a modern reality.

[@aredesuyo]

I don't believe a single word these people say anymore, and so now I'm always curious as to what the real story is. Are they obsessed with building temples only in residential areas because that's where the money is for their well-connected real estate developers? Daybreak at the southwest corner of the Salt Lake valley comes to mind, where you can see that the temple there has been quite centrally located in a residential area from the beginning. Imagine the effect that the temple location has on the value of the surrounding property, and it makes you wonder . . .

[@sheliabryant3997]

@ared. "STREAKER" mentality.

[@MoreWordsPlease]

I think you are right about that. There is a new temple in St. George and there is a subdevelopment being built WITHIN the gates of what looks like the temple grounds (the short avenue that dead-ends at the temple's front door). Multi-million dollar homes that are currently up for sale. The church owns all of it. Selling off those homes as a status symbol for wealthy members. Imagine how good you'd feel about yourself if you lived outside the temple's front door? Everybody in your ward will have mega respect for you. It's so gross.

[@salindariebow8175]

The Tampa Temple will be built in my area. Any advice on what should be monitored to make sure codes are complied with? I dont know where to start...

[@dalesnow1761]

Absolutely despicable and a complete embarrassment right from the leaders to the members believing this nonsense and falling in line, it’s all for someone’s ego and show at this point.

[@NukeOTron]

They seem to be going for the "Trouble in River City" method of convincing people here.

[@Eric-vy1ux]

I like looking at the Big Dipster and imagining it’s top star is Kolobie.

[@Gideonslc]

I have been just as inspired in majestic caverns... want a 60' tall building? Fine start it 30' underground. Or yah know if it's all underground then only landscaping needs repair when tornadoes come. It's both a temple and storm shelter. The appeals of imbeciles never cease to amaze me.

[@user-oh7vp2rc3w]

I guess size really does matter.

[@TEAM__POSEID0N]

According to my always reliable and completely anonymous sources, a particularly tall spire in Texas is required to fulfill a contract with Hollywood in connection with a (top secret for now) upcoming Superman vs. Godzilla movie. In the climax scene of the movie, Superman throws a violently thrashing Godzilla onto a Mormon Texas Temple spire, which impales Godzilla. Thanks to unusually sturdy construction of the temple building, Godzilla is unable to free himself by crushing the building...and slowly begins to die. "How do you feel, Godzilla?" Superman asks. "The IN-SPIRE-ATION is killing me", Godzilla replies. Superman then says: "Well, the expiration caused by your inspiration will precede the ex-spire-ation that will carried out by the clean-up crew tomorrow." The camera then pans to two Mormon missionaries observing the wreckage from the ground, one of them saying to the other: "See how this is like the way that God planned for the loss of the 116 manuscript pages of the Book of Mormon. If God had allowed the locals to shorten or eliminate the spire, Superman would not have been able to defeat Godzilla." Even now, local residents are being warned, based on leaked scripts, that getting rid of the tall spire will be the same as giving a victory to Godzilla, which is basically the same as a victory for Satan.

[@christinaheath3442]

LOL! 🤣

[@user-oh7vp2rc3w]

This lawyer's own tongue is trying to trip him up.

[@amaugh01]

But isn't the church steeple a symbol of Christianity? Architecture, especially with regard to churches and religious buildings around the world does hold a religious significance and for many is indeed a form of worship whether or not they have thought about it as deeply as we see here.

[@tquist61]

It's curious how insistent they are in putting this temples with huge spires in residential areas. I just returned from a weekend in Ogden and was able to see the new Ogden temple. Beautiful building, impressive spire - but it's located downtown and not in a residential area. There is simply no church doctrine that states you have to put a temple in a residential area. They want it there so it will stand out more, I'm sure. The lack of care regarding local residents' opinions is astounding.

[@MoreWordsPlease]

There will probably be at least a few people who leave the church over this. Watching your priesthood leaders lie without flinching can be kind of a faith-shaker.

[@user-by3me4vr5j]

As an ex mormon, I can say that I no longer recognize this church. I left because I didn't believe in the doctrine, but if I was still a member today, I'd be leaving because I've lost massive respect for its leaders and a number of its members.

[@Eric-vy1ux]

I lust like looking at the Dipster pretending the top twinkle is Kolrabi.

[@carmencarlson7913]

Okay, great! The steeple is so important and its symbolic. Go build a temple where its zone for those kind of buildings. Not at a residential area. How hard is it to understand?

[@MegaJohn144]

What the church is doing in unscriptural, but since when did they let that stop them? Luke 16:9 And I say unto you, Make to yourselves friends of the mammon of unrighteousness; that, when ye fail, they may receive you into everlasting habitations. D&C 82:22 And now, verily I say unto you, and this is wisdom, make unto yourselves friends with the mammon of unrighteousness, and they will not destroy you.

[@user-mn447]

This makes me physically ill.

[@jimbobdrg3247]

Too bad we can't call the Lord as a witness - that would resolve everything!

[@elijahhawaii]

This is some hot buttered bullshite from start to finish. It incensed me to hear how they are justifying it. 1 - that the designers supposedly looked at the need for the specific area to determine what to build ... WTAF?! and 2 - they know already that they are building in residential areas which commonly have the same height restrictions of 30 - 35 feet but they totally ignore that because of point 1. It matters to the church leaders zero, 0, nada, zilch what the community feels its needs are, only what the church designers decide that community needs and the neighbors be damned. Selfish, self-absorbed arrogant attitudes for TSCC. Par for the course.

[@stefanylclark7419]

Cathedrals throughout the world are built with extreme heights and cielings with the stated purpose to MAKE YOU FEEL SMALL AND INSIGNIFICANT in comparison to the magnitude and glory of God. Seriously. Look at the elaborate columns and even the gargoyles which threaten unworthy souls to hell. So, not sure where this is all going, but my grandfather gave up and went to worship in the forest. Said he didn't have to be the Sunday School President of the Methodist church to feel close to God. I love the temple and it does inspire me and I believe in taking the utmost care for it and all our buildings, but we can find symbolism in other ways. Arguing is POINTLESS. Pun intended.

[@boysrus61]

He did not answer the question of how the members can lie about the importance with a clear conscience. That was the question. His answer was a word salad of bla bla bla look up the spire and see heaven... don't stop on Moroni which is actually where most people stop their gaze.

[@dan9948]

This honestly helps me better appreciate the physical symbolism of the temple, and what that means for members of TSSC. Now clearly, that's no justification to undermine & threaten communities to get your way. In fact, it should be all the more reason to do things right and respectfully, lest they desecrate & mock everything the temple is supposed to symbolize for them. (Honestly, if a big temple in a residential area is valued by a community, then they should have no problem adjusting regulations without being underhanded & threatening). The ability to value and empathize in both directions (without subjugation) is generally a step closer to cooperative coexistence. It's sad though that TSSC is failing HARD at that, and bringing masses with it. To recap, what I gain from this is being sad on behalf of membership, that TSSC is weaponizing their honorable desires, values, and trust, and as ransom to not empathize with their communities. That's despicable & tragic.

[@kenmccain9743]

Doesn't bother me in the least that the building needs a tall steeple. We were promised in this nation to have the freedom of religion, irregardless of who they are or what they believe. Christians have crosses on top of their churches, and Mormons either have spires and angels on top of theirs.

[@CuriousThinker1776]

Not all of them have steeples. And even if they do, they don't have to be 173 feet high.

[@mellisamckee5108]

Aren't we to obey the "Laws of the Land?" If the Church wants to build in these areas, obey the lighting restrictions and the height restrictions? Those restrictions were there LONG before the Church decided to build there. This constant sueing and lying about the Spires is embarassing. I don't think I would have ever joined the Church if I could have seen the business practices of the Church before hand.

[@sheliabryant3997]

@kenmc. No need to plant a temple at CRUISING ALTITUDE. No one is trying to deprive them of ANYTHING of which ANY OTHER builder would also be denied were they proposing to DEFY THE LAWS applicable to- and REGULATING- EVERYONE. E Q U A L L Y.

[@jackdemars2417]

Well you definitely don't have my reverence, but that's ok, Jesus says its ok to lie and piss off all the residents.

[@grandmaroxie2210]

This is not freedom

[@charlesmendeley9823]

Tall steeples sounds 100% Roman Catholic to me.

[@carolyearsley]

Well, they rub shoulders with the J esuits all the time.

[@BrianTerrill]

The town I grew up in the tallest steeple was a methodist church. That's the great thing about America, religious groups can build churches and determine the steeple size they want.

[@carolyearsley]

@@BrianTerrill Not if it's against the law.

[@charlesmendeley9823]

@@BrianTerrill Of course, everyone is free to build whatever they like, within the boundaries of local laws and regulations. The point is that tall steeples never was a thing in Mormonism, but now they want to build tall steeples to be more visible. As the city councils oppose these plans because they ruin the panorama (cf. light pollution), the LDS Church lies about tall steeples being at the core of the faith, which is untrue.

[@carolyearsley]

They have taken ideas from the Catholics. Members who leave Mormonism, if they choose a different religion, will often become Catholic.