Thief: The Dark Project was Ahead of its Time | MandaloreGaming Reaction

Thief: The Dark Project Review by MandaloreGaming
• Thief: The Dark Projec...
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#TheLegitWeebs

[@AleksanderDrako]

If I remember correctly it was explained somewhere, perhaps in manual that if you don't spend the money, Garrett will spent them enjoying himself and still be behind the rent.

[@marley7868]

also in 2 he admits he has made it a point to save up for retirement first pay his rent second

[@TheLegitWeebs]

Lmao bro does not know how to budget

[@lich109]

You can action your way through MGS, but you'll have a bad time if you try it. The random guy who popped up and redid everything reminds me of the guy who fixed the resolution in some From Soft games on PC, even though From Soft said they couldn't fix it. It took him under a day to do that and he released it for free as well. Thief came out at a time when everyone looked like an origami figure. It just wasn't worth it to make them look more like people, so the budgets went elsewhere. 13:10 That was a 40k game called Inquisitor: Martyr. It's honestly my favourite game if you want to play a wizard (Psyker) class, and I'd recommend it. "Gold" versions were games you needed to rebuy in order to get a small amount of extra content and quality of life upgrades. It was how companies used to do things when they didn't want to do an expansion pack and before DLC became a thing. So for the setting, Thief takes place in a nightmarish world, it only looks normal because the city itself keeps the other horrors out, and beyond the walls is a place you likely wouldn't survive long in, and even if you did live your sanity might not survive. Thief is definitely a part of the experimental era of games where studios were allowed to make whatever they wanted, and I really miss that time period.

[@marley7868]

well the pagans are fine buut there abit kooky

[@EBTcraft15]

Btw Civvie11 has a great playthrough of Thief 1 and 2. Long live the "Petty Thief" series. Also the Black Parade mod is incredible, basically a full campaign of the same quality as the official games.

[@leehollings79]

Yes, seconded :)

[@ambionest]

Thief games are a large part of my childhood. i absolutely love them and the games stand up even today. they revolutionized and awoke my love of stealth as the stealth mechanics in the game are fantastic. i have very fond memories of it with my brother. though blanking on which one it was. but the zombie focused map being bone hoard absolutely terrified me as a kid a really large part is the audio and since i have a super active imagination it left me with sleepless nights for a week or so, to this day i haven't replayed that level. highly recommend giving the game a try

[@antonakesson]

And I bet you loved the 2014 remake, eh? ;-)

[@Cherus]

I miss talking about every detail of every mission with my buddy back then.

[@ambionest]

@@antonakesson I've yet to try it. on my list of things to do. but from what i've heard. not a fantastic game all things considered. but as always i'll go in with an open mind. my older brother enjoyed it all things considered

[@Blandy8521]

17:37 Yeah when I played Dishonored I tried to avoid killing as much as possible since the guards are just doing their jobs & have no reason to think you're anything other than public enemy num 1 thanks to being framed as the one who assassinated the Empress. Also felt like Corvo wouldn't kill normal people

[@TheLegitWeebs]

It definitely seems out of character for him to take out random people. You could argue that he goes on a blood thirsty rampage of revenge, but that doesn't feel right.

[@LazyBuddyBan]

The slaying of VIP bastards is fine tho, since "pacifist" options on them always looked too extremely sadistic anyways. and is pretty much canon choices in books. Like what that one toilet paper man once said: "I don't enjoy killing, but when done righteously, it's just a chore like any other"

[@elgescherwerauchimmer700]

13:04 you have no idea How accurate these snipers in Halo 2 are

[@Kaneland2014]

Regarding Dishonored, I found out recently that you can actually kill a pretty decent amount of people per level and still count as Low Chaos, aka the same outcome from never killing anyone. I want to say its like 10-15% of the total enemies in a level or below that counts as LC, so you're allowed to kill the occasional guard or 3 that catch you instead of constantly reloading the save when your Ghost run gets ruined.

[@alphashocker7458]

You can get up to the double digits in almost every level. For both games. And still get low chaos.

[@Kaneland2014]

@@alphashocker7458 I used to play as basically Ghost No Kill until I saw Pat on Castle Super Beast talk about getting over his obsession with always Ghosting, which is where I learned you can kill a decent number of people and still get LC.

[@TheLegitWeebs]

I'd still feel kinda bad though. Most of them were just doing their job for one reason or another.

[@Aggression-qm2yg]

I love the thief series. It’s always bittersweet in a way when you look back at old video games and see all the ideas they tried for them. Sadly gaming wasn’t as huge as it is now back then so a lot of the concepts and ideas of what games could be died. I don’t think we’ll ever have a game entirely focused around its stealth again. *edit: and before anyone says it I’m aware there are other “stealth” games out there. But when you actually look at them not really. In assassins creed the stealth is awful you just stand in a bush or crowd and whistle and there’s your stealth. Or the painful missions where you just have to follow a target for a set amount of time which is painfully boring. What I mean is that a stealth game can only be that when it is entirely focused on it. You can’t be a combat god in a stealth game because otherwise what is the point of stealth when you can’t just charge through the front door and go full doom guy.

[@thebadger4040]

I actually think horror games are scarier if they give me combat options. If one has none then I know the game is designed in a way that lets me get away unscathed from every dangerous encounter, whereas if I get a gun I feel like I'm suddenly expected to be more careful because maybe I'll screw up cause of bad aim or panic, or wont conserve my ammo well enough etc. I know there's some psych horror game that gives you a gun and then no enemies for the entire game just to mess with you. That would work on me! I guess you could say that without a gun i feel like I have plot armor lol. Its kinda cool in survival horror games because they tickle that 'Fight or flight' part of your brain more. btw I recommend to watch his videos on System Shock sometime cause its kind of a sister franchise to Thief. He also made vids on Arx Fatalis and Dark Messiah which were attempts at spiritual sequels going different ways.

[@botindeldiablo]

Taffer Taffering Taff. By far one of my favorite games of all time, no other game ever come close to Thief in ambience (Until Northern Journey and Darkwood for me, Mandy cover both games btw) and its the perfect example of artstyle > graphics. Wanna know why the sound is so good in this game? The devs Looking Glass use to be Audio Engineers so they apply the craft into the game (the game was remade two times before they got it right) For the plot side to make it more clear I will reference Warham Fantasy stuff. Garret is the literal avatar or Ranald: hurt nobody, be a ghost and clean the place of loot while the Trickster is the CHAOS GOD OF NATURE (he's look a Beastmen even) so yeah in the Sword youre robbing the house of a chaos god as a test. 35:40 About the Zombies, its the work of the Trickster he pretty much flips the nature of death and rise the dead as an army to spite the mortals, in universe the City had a huge outbreak where they couldnt fully eliminate the armies of the undead so they wall off a whole district forever, the Hammerites fought the dead while everybody else rush to rise the walls. 40:38 is the map of the Maw of Chaos, a literal drawing of a madman the final mission is the ultimate test for any thief: STEAL FROM GOD RIGHT IN FRON OF HIM ON THIS OWN REALM so yeah, a very cool powertrip. Oh and Looking Glass always had a thing for Nature vs Technology Thief and System Shock is all about this. Most people like the second game but I fully enjoy both to the core.

[@Headbiter]

"I've never heard of this before". Hearing that in relation to Thief hurt. Deus Ex (the original from 2000) Thief 1 & 2 Planescape Torment Vampire: The Masquerade - Redemption StarCraft + Brood War The Legacy of Kain games (Blood Omen & Soul Reaver 1+ 2, as well as Defiance) Prince of Persia - The Sands of Time WarCraft 3 + The Frozen Throne Outcast There are plenty more older games you might have not heard of that hold up surprisingly, even shockingly, well against even the most advertised bloated modern titles but if you're passionate about this little medium called video games, trust me, you want to have experienced *at least* that list. Not even necessarily as content, just...get them, pop them in during your free time and I can almost guarantee, you'll understand what I mean.

[@Hanmacx]

5:42 "resurrect the devil?" Yes 😅

[@Eyclonus]

Also Gold editions were a thing briefly in the late 90s and early 00s where they would rerelease a game with a few bug fixes, some tweaks to make it flow better and like 2-5 new levels plus often a new gun. But there was never a way to update your original release so it was a way to milk more monies, and when retro re-releases started in the late 00s, they often started with non-gold editions, and then moved to gold editions, so there was the brief repeat of getting screwed again.

[@SkyBlueFox1]

Can confirm that Thief is in fact peak Thief 2 is still one of the most striking games I've ever played in my life - utterly drenched in atmosphere and with remarkably flexible mechanics. I still remember shooting rope arrows into the bank's ceiling so I could Tarzan my way across the rafters.

[@getektuvzu29]

Thief game legend like Baldurs Gate or Doom And i love Thief style,audio and bla bla its bless for dork like me

[@JetBalrog]

The tech gives me the weird vibes of these mad cultists peering into the future, seeing modern day electronics and forges and their blueprints, trying their hardest to draw everything they saw when they come out of their drug-filled visions of the future, and hoping it works. Edit: The comment at 12:28 - that reminds me, the game Returnal I think strikes an interesting midpoint for me between going for the highest fidelity graphics possible while still doing something that feels stylish for the sake of it- namely, the way the leaves on the ground in the first area swirl around you as you dash through them. That, and the neat touch on the jetpack turning redder and redder, but only if you repeatedly dash, and taking longer to cool back down. I kindof want to see more projects lean into THAT kind of style instead of just *pure* HD super realism. I like those personal touches that make you feel like part of the world more than it just looking "real" which always looks dated in some way or another in ten years.

[@Eyclonus]

Thief 1 had a mod of the year recently for a reason; its a horror game where the horror is being seen by witnesses and guards.

[@chill-lady-brook]

Some of the audio in the Thief 2 video is hard to understand so don’t feel bad for turning on captions. I absolutely love this series. The themes of nature vs technology and balance vs dominance are so well executed.

[@signa8]

There's an old video called "Thief vs AAA Gaming" that everyone should look into. It's an incredible video essay about how they got things so right in 1998 and get things so wrong now.

[@puddel9079]

from Stratedgy, right?

[@signa8]

@puddel9079 Dom Giuca is the channel.

[@ambionest]

Also Constantine's mansion is my favourite level in the game. easily. and maybe of all games at least in my top 5

[@Ninjaguiden89]

If I can recommend another Mandalore vid it would be the one on Sacrifice, given your forays into the RTS genre. Could be fun to watch you play too and see what choices you'd make 😄

[@punpundit5590]

Playing this when it came out was magical.

[@petrusjnaude7279]

Since you have played Dishonored before, the same voice actor who plays Garret in the Thief games does Corvo's voice in Dishonored 2.

[@alphashocker7458]

35:36 Not quiet what you describe. But its still a pretty close description of the wider setting. Especially if you consider the Black Parade mod to be canon.

[@ferriusnillan5323]

Although wasnt my childhood game, Thief 1 and 2 really tapped into this weird feeling you might'v had, when you accidentally lost a toy in the dark room, but parents are asleep and you just dont want to make any noise. Mostly the first Thief, Thief 2 has story i love more and despite its dated visuals, it has this reverse uncanny valley where despite being low-poly and some parts are straight up photo's stretched onto a model, it kinda looks nice. Except the beastmen, they look hilarious in that game, as well as Victoria's take on chaos realm is... something.

[@judie6727]

14:43 I relate, I play a rpg, I will not use useful items ever, not even during the final boss cause my brain will say "maybe it'll be better used later" even when I am at the end.

[@ValCherCh]

Just like Mandy, I recommend watching Civvie11's "Petty Thief" playthrough. It's a good series with the right amount of informative and hilarious facts about the game.

[@msxbrc]

One of the best games ever made til to this day, most original setup, best sound design, best actual infiltration design, crazy good storytelling and art direction, one of the most spooky/horror game too, the IA even by today's standard in ridiculously good and immersive. incredible organic gameplay, and still nobody took back this gameplay to do better to this day. Just show you how this industry in dumb and dead. Those games were like, what happens when the best craftmen of a field could actually freely do their job to their maximum potential. By the way the universe was described as if the Medieval Era had an industrial revolution for the first game, the second was more evolved it had a coat of Artdeco style on top of the medieval industrialism. Two incredible games. Dishonored, is an bad ersatz of thief, even Thief 4 which is wrongly based on thief 3 gameplay is a better stealth game than dishonored.

[@Eyclonus]

Also as you're a fan of sseth Tzeenatch and MandaloreGaming, I really recommend GrimBeard, he's one of Mandalore's friends and does longer videos on lesser known games especially from the mid-00s.

[@ThyRavenWings]

I have it on good authority that this game originally wasn't even supposed to be a stealth game and that is why more or less why there's so much whiplash as to how you are to play each level. The Thief games didn't really come into their own until Thief 2: The Metal Age as a stealth game since by then they had a clearer vision of what kind of game they were making

[@Maioly]

13:07 40k: inquisitor: martyr a 40k diablo clone/arpg that has gone through several issues and is still getting updated and getting (honestly overpriced) DLC until now its... ok, I guess.

[@kontanaizumi]

I think I've recommended him before, but CV-11 has amazing videos on retro games like thief

[@TheFool_0]

I still recommend checking out Mandaloregaming's video on Kingdom Underfire. That game had a lot of cool ideas. I really want a new one.

[@Cherus]

Thief 1. most immersive gaming experience of my life. Best sound design to that day. I played part two many years later, still a good game, but I prefer the mythical and supernatural things of part one instead the robotic stuff in part two.

[@Hravokh]

another classic . good times.

[@FriendlyArchpriest]

I feel like Stealth in games needs to have the whole game built around that concept, at least when it comes to games with a 3D environment like Thief, otherwise you only get a "token" stealth system like whatever Elder Scrolls tries to do. Also, Garrett being a Thief means that it's ok for him to be bad at combat, but I never understood actual Assassins being bad at combat, I much prefer when games with assassin-like characters make them essentially into Ninjas (or basically, take the Dexterity-style combat of a Samurai and a Monk, and pump it to eleven, make them super speedy and all about hitting those weak spots and vital points). On this sense Soulsborne sort of succeeds at that, as assassins are essentially simple dex builds (or if you are going for status like Bleed and Poison, whatever stat helps with that), as capable in combat as anyone else.

[@BLeePrit]

Well now you gotta watch Badger's EDF video to learn more.

[@earthbound9999]

Thief 1 and 2 are my favorite games of all time. Love Thief 1 for its incredible atmosphere and Thief 2 for its brilliant level design.

[@earthbound9999]

And not to mention all the fan missions.

[@absp2006]

I need you to do the Strum On Studios trilogy: E. Y. E. Divine Cybermancy, Space Hulk Desthwing, and then Necromunda: Hired Gun

[@snugglyburrick]

"You'd never catch me playing this" not even for the whole series for often less than €10 total? 🤔In fact, as of time of writing GOG has the series on sale for €0.99, that's just under €3 for the 3 best games ever created As for the undead: dunno! There's no in-game explanation for them. As far as they're treated in the lore we do have, it sort of just seems like they're a natural phenomenon that people just have to deal with. Necromancy does exist as a magic in the games, but it doesn't seem like that's the *origin* of zombies and ghosts, it's just a force to control them or bring them into being on purpose. Fan theories abound, but as far as we know zombies are as natural an occurrence in this world as the crystalised essence of water that keeps forming in people's sinks when they leave them full for too long

[@Maioly]

43:37 oh hey its me, the rambly idiot again. EDF is what people think helldivers 2 is... sort of but also ace combat? (theme/radio chatter wise) Gameplay wise its just... chaos, organized fun, tongue in cheek chaos; Gameplay changes somewhat depending on the class but you are basically playing as a person standing (practically) alone against giant hordes of monsters and alien invasions, mechs, (legally distinct)godzilla, etc. Its a lot more arcade-ey than Helldivers and going entirely on rule of cool/silly/insanity Unless you're playing air-raider then you are a walking airstrike given human form and the power WILL go to your head... Helldiver artstrikes and support has nothing on the absolute madness an air raider can call down. Its based on the useless soldiers in kaiju/sci-fy movies/ultraman series playing up the dire-ness of it all a lot and how stupid those characters tend to be. BUT, you are playing an absolute badass, it takes a while for you to be recognized but by the end of those games you are usually humanity's last hope and full well recognized as such, with a lot of the dialog reflecting how much of an insane badass you actually are (specially in the latest entry, that one took that to insane levels, to the point were I'd say the player character in that might as well be a living representation of the indomitable human will, its enough to make big E proud) TLDR comparison with helldivers - In helldivers the missions are randomized and the entire plot and theming is about how expendable you actually are, with the devs actually planing the game around having the player basically be playing a super expendable mook who WILL die. In EDF the missions are pre-made and more structured, and while everyone around you is an expendable idiotic mook who will die in despair, you alone (and whoever is playing with you) are the ultimate badasses who will be left standing after an entire army of aliens reduce the area to dust (and you returned the favor by turning them into nothing but blood/oil smears on top of the dust) Helldivers expects you to die. EDF expects everything else but you to die. edit: extra 40k comparison: Helldivers is a guardsman simulator EDF is a guardman fantasy/Big E approved display of human will.

[@acrab6527]

Speaking of horror games losing all fear the second you have a gun, that's why Fatal Frame was good. You have a camera. It only drives the ghosts off for a few minutes. Or Siren. Have your guns, the enemies only stay dead for 90 seconds.

[@StylishPlushie]

I'd say the Resident Evil games were never about scaring you, they were about keeping you on edge. You always had the option to fight, but ammunition was scarce, so you either got good with the knife or you got good running past the zombies. In the early games, the clunky controls made combat much more risky and tense. RE4 (the original) struck the perfect balance between action and suspense, which is why it became the most popular entry in the franchise, and the suits at CAPCOM took the wrong lesson and basically said "more action = more sales, got it". RE5 was more action oriented, but still good. RE6 on the other hand... I can only describe it as a video game made for the Michael Bay audience.

[@TheLegitWeebs]

Was RE6 the one where Chris punches a boulder? Seeing it cracks me up every time.

[@StylishPlushie]

@@TheLegitWeebs That was RE5

[@acrab6527]

First 30 seconds: Boo! Boo, good sir! Terrible joke, do more of them

[@burnttoast26]

"I remember a Thief game coming out in 2014, I hope it's good" I'm afraid I have some bad news... The others are great for the most part though

[@TheLegitWeebs]

Oh no

[@nikogarcia201]

Blood Raven simulator The game. Take every that isn’t nail down.

[@TheRealBlackNet]

Thief 1 and 2 is very great my top 3 with SystemShock 2.

[@Ezekiel_Kleyer]

I bought a cheap soundcard just for these games. It was worth every €.

[@Maioly]

24:16 right, assassins creed (or as I call it, ass creed), a series I have a lot of mixed feelings about and simultaneously love and hate. Feel free to ignore this comment but I will list out the ones I am familiar with + general player opinion of those I havent played (as far as I am aware) 1 aged a bit poorly but has its neat moments 2 is great, it and most of its spin offs are considered by many to be the best entries in the series 3 is hot garbage BUT it introduced naval combat which was great 4 is an amazing pirate game... with a shitty ass creed game also shoved in there somewhere (fucking tailing missions from hell) I never played any of its spin offs but I hear they are good I hear syndicate is very good but I honestly havent touched any between 4 and origins and overall have heard they are all garbage with the expection of the previously mentioned Syndicate Origins is GREAT, it is a bit rough in places, but the setting, the (past) plot and characters are all great and well worth playing the game for, gameplay can be fun too but its in a weird place between an ARPG and classic assassin creed... also cannon to final fantasy 15 no, I am not joking Odyssey is a bit divisive so I will go into more detail on it: I personally love it but I am also a big fan of ancient greece; It goes full ARGP/open world RPG in its combat, the plot is a bit more flexible (multiple endings and things can go different depending how you handle stuff... which also includes being able to fuck yourself much later on if you make rash decisions early); If you do check it out, play as Cassandra (the female player character option) the game was fully intended to have her as the protag and the male option was added due to executive meddling, and it shows (Cassandra is much better written and acted). It does feel a bit bloated/padded at times, but it also has one of my favorite elements in the entire asscreed franchise: How it handles its assassination targets - The vast majority of them (outside of some deeper plot relevant ones) are literally just out in the world, you can find things and do sidequests that lead to them, even lead to direct confrontations with them in cutscenes... or you can just find them out in the world and kill them; As a personal example, I accidentally mis-pressed a button while in athens and assassinated what should have been a completely random NPC walking the streets... turns out she was an assassination target and I got her through incredibly sheer dumb chance, and that moment felt magical. The DLC... the DLC is... eh... there are two basically, one ads a canon love interest and is EXCEEDINGLY poorly handled (it shows that it wasnt written by the same team) and might as well be ignored; the big one adds an entire elysium myth based realm that looks gorgeous... but I personally felt the writing wasnt on par with the main game (again, different team) and it just felt a bit bloated for me, leading me to drop it, but I was having some burn out by then. I havent played the ones following, but the general feeling I got from them is Valhalla (likely the one you were referring to) is basically Odyssey but with vikings and the writing is nowhere near as good (though I hear it goes to absolutely wacky places like the god Loki being around in modern time as a metal head, feuding with Odin... who may or may not be the player character?) Again there is a character gender selection, though this time around I heard the male character was intended and is the better acted of them, but overall writing and world quality is down and a lot more bloated and padded out And then there is the actual latest game that no one seems to remember, Assassin Creed Mirage... I actually heard nothing but good things about it; Being set in india, it seems to take gameplay back towards ass creed 2 era and I overall heard its actually a really good game, from the few people I even heard talking about it Only reason why I havent played it myself is that my PC cant run it. Finally there is the upcoming shadows... which apparently heavily uses AI generated content and has been delayed indefinitely... BONUS: Fun fact, Assassins creed started off as a spin off from the prince of persia franchise! ... The best game ubisoft has put out in years, that went completely ignored, is Prince of Persia the Lost Crown; Not only a great game but possibly one of the best metroidvanias of recent time (though still below the likes of nine sols and hollow knight), I am throwing in a massive bonus recommendation to check out that game, because ubisoft fucked it over massively in marketing, released it exclusively for their garbage app (steam release finally coming last year) and then claimed it was a massive failure (and disbanded the team that worked on it).

[@sciarpecyril]

What about Unity?

[@Maioly]

@@sciarpecyril unity is in that void between 4 and syndicate, I overall heard it was horribly bad but then later some people mentioned it getting better later, but overall I avoided it like the plague so cant even comment on it.

[@sciarpecyril]

@@Maioly , got it. Long story short: it was terrible at the launch due to a ton of bugs and other techical issues, but after fixes got significally better and considered one of the top "classic" Assassin's Creed games. Certainly placed over Syndicate and maybe 3/4, depending on a person.

[@cynicalcitizen8315]

Dishonored could have been greater.

[@funnyspeedrun84]

These Videos are good but I highly recommend the Civvie 11 “Petty Thief” Videos. It’s a longer play through that runs through Individual Missions in a much more detailed manner with a fucked up funny sense of humor about it because Civvie is fucking insane in a funny way. Check it out, Trust.