Things Your Lutheran Pastor Totally Loves: Being Mistaken for the ELCA (Episode Three)

[@daithimcbuan5235]

I had an ex-girlfriend who thought that "Christian" just meant "being a good person". I quickly informed her of The Holy Trinity.

[@Deviantygr]

I'll take "Moralistic therapeutic deism" for $1000, Alex!

[@Hamann9631]

Daithi McBuan. Thanks for sharing. Some of those people have ideas about being good which don't compare well with scripture.

[@aaronh8095]

CS Lewis has something about this in the preface of Mere Christianity but I am too lazy to quote it now.

[@wilwelch258]

“For which full atonement has been made” amen... Praise be to God for sending His Son into the world in our flesh to die for our sins

[@Hamann9631]

Wil Welch. I liked that quote too. That is real love for people with same sex attraction and body dysmorphia.

[@blindvision4703]

Emphasis on holy… And Trinity

[@blindvision4703]

Great compact presentation of the gospel! I didn’t know that was possible! That was brilliant!

[@TheLutheranSatire]

In order for the ELCA to accurately reflect world Lutheranism, you'd have to count all the paper members of the European state churches who aren't practicing Lutherans and not count all the African Lutherans who are breaking fellowship with the ELCA for not being, well, Lutheran.

[@doubtingthomas9117]

It’s good to periodically binge watch Lutheran Satire 👍🏻

[@doughertyyy]

What about going on hour long binges? Lol just asking seeing as im not even a Lutheran but still love this channel

[@micmikeman6865]

​@@doughertyyyWhat denomination are you?

[@Evgeniy9712]

Baptist here, and I love watching these 😊

[@gaelonhays1712]

​@@Evgeniy9712Same here.

[@TheLutheranSatire]

@mandyho13 1. Jesus' actions speak clear enough. When it came to selecting the 12, He selected all men. Furthermore, He doesn't specifically address women acting as priests/pastors for the same reason He doesn't specifically address auto insurance fraud. Neither of those things are happening among the Jews. But women acting as priests does happen among the gentiles. That's why Paul specifically addresses it.

[@thewordrules]

New to Lutheranism (LCMS) and thankful we found it. Left 33 years of evangelical/non-denominational/charismatic teachings and really got tired of the "agree to disagree" mentality instead of sticking to the Word. Lots of itching ears out there; and lots of pastors willing to preach a different gospel to fill their churches. Love the Lutheran satire.

[@blindvision4703]

I’m evangelical/nondenominational/Baptist, and there are some things I disagree with Lutheranism on, but I still largely discount the hyper charismatic group and their teachings. I don’t agree with Justin peters on everything, but he’s a good resource, along with Mike Winger.

[@Solideogloria00]

Mike Winger isn’t a good example of sound historic apostolic doctrine.

[@thewordrules]

@@Solideogloria00 I do not know who Mike Winger is. This channel's creator is Pastor Hans Fiene. After being Catholic for the first 19 years of my life, and also being a part of several other faiths (Methodist, Presbyterian, and non-denominational branches), I can assure you his doctrine is as sound as it gets. Keeping in mind though that all history is subjective, so we must use the Bible.

[@TheLutheranSatire]

@mandyho13 2. Jesus Himself chose Paul to be an apostle and to speak with His authority. I find it hard to believe that the Son of God who knows all things would pick an apostle who is going to go rogue and try to pass off as his own personal opinions the will of God Almighty. 3. Had Paul been binding the Church to a practice that was contrary to God's will, the other apostles would have rebuked him, as Paul did to Peter. That didn't happen.

[@patriot524]

Well, to be fair, Peter wasn't "binding the Church" to a practice that was contrary to God's will. It was bound correctly in Acts 15, and in Galatians, Peter simply failed to practice what he taught. Peter needed a rebuke to correct his behavior (not his teachings).

[@CalebDPhillips]

I'm a confessional Presbyterian (part of the Orthodox Presbyterian Church) & I can say that we have similar problems, what with the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) being one of the most prominent bodies in mainline American Protestantism.

[@OrthodoxofUSA]

CalebDPhillips I'm OPC as well! Good to meet another one!

[@martharendon669]

Ah yes, the elusive fellow OPC brother 😆

[@tatharelprincessoferegion8162]

the PCUSA is the really bad one . . . but PCA is sadly going a little wonky too.

[@MeanBeanComedy]

If Redeemed Zoomer pulls this stunt out, the PCUSA might be saved!​@@tatharelprincessoferegion8162

[@1337wafflezz]

Holy heck why is this still so relevant?

[@aidanshorey8249]

I was on snapchat today and one of the featured stories was, "Meet my girlfriend...and wife". It was about a polygamous relationship that was asked to leave the Pentecostal church. The group (is that what you call it?) found a church that accepted them, and the church claimed to be Lutheran. It said, "Lutheranism is accepting of everyone into God's Kingdom", and I wanted to break out the Mogen David. That's not what true Lutheranism is about, and unfortunately the LCMS is often dragged through the mud with the ELCA because of stories like this. I'm soooo sick of seeing this whole, "Church needs to conform to society" bs because that diminishes the entire premise that a higher power even exists. God then just becomes a man-made concept that has no real purpose besides mass control. Have these "churchgoers" ever stopped to think that if a higher power exists, maybe it might know more than you and have a better understanding of how humanity works? That's my soapbox for the day

[@sidwhiting665]

It's a given. When men reject God, they become a god unto themselves and there's no limit on what is permissible. Not a shocker....we were promised this. I always check in with 2 Timothy 3:1-7 if I ever need a reminder of what we should expect. *grins

[@mic1240]

LCMS is not what Lutheranism represents to most people who are members of the Lutheran Church, both in the US and globally. There is a reason LCMS is not in communion, fellowship, interaction or otherwise sharing much but the name “Lutheran” with 70M Lutherans around the world. For its (selective) Biblical literalism, funny how LCMS missed teaching of compassion, loving the sinner not the sin, and so many other basic tenets of most Christian faiths (including Lutherans), or the common and shared beliefs of all liturgical churches.

[@brycelandon6387]

Southern Baptist here, this was funny!

[@mwidunn]

What's "funny" is that Baptists are in the same boat of confusion and disagreement as the ELCA and Missouri Synoders.

[@Suo_kongque]

ELCA here, I’m proud to be it.

[@justanotherbaptistjew5659]

@Gambit Sok Even in light of recent tweets praying to “mother god”?

[@bruceburns405]

Aaaand this is why I ran out of the ELCA as quick as I could. My sister and brother are both still pastors in it.

[@ryanhunneshagen3704]

Bruce Burns good for them. I’m glad to say I’m apart of the ELCA where we except everyone and call female pastors

[@sidwhiting665]

@@ryanhunneshagen3704 ELCA long ago left the Way of Christianity and accepted the ways of the world. They are the "itching ear" church we were warned about in 2 Timothy 4:3. "For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths." We know this for a fact because many of their core doctrinal statements stand in direct contradiction to the teaching of Christ himself and his apostles whom he taught personally, and to whom he gave the Holy Spirit.

[@Eagle_Beak]

Brilliant. I laughed when the "nos" became "Nyet" and "Nein"

[@TheLutheranSatire]

@mandyho13 The point about the OT priesthood is that God ordered that only the Levites were to be priests, which left out the other 11 tribes. In the same way, I'm arguing, based on 1st Timothy 2, 1 Corinthians 14 and Ephesians 5, that God has ordered that only qualified men are to serve as pastors. So if it wasn't discrimination in the OT, why does it suddenly becomes discrimination in the NT?

[@helenwalter6830]

It still is discrimination but on a much smaller scale. The Jewish population is much, much smaller than the Christian one. 35% of the world is Christian. Half of those people are women. 17.5% of all the people on the Earth are specifically being discriminated against. Not all of these women are pastors or want to be, but the point still stands. There is a reason that most men do not contradict or look at that verse very carefully. Because it doesn't really affect them. And for my best friend who wanted to be a pastor and share the love of God with others through her marvelous gift for teaching and speeches, I'm sorry that Christianity cares more about keeping 100% orthodox and having no interpretation or context at all than spreading the gospel. Just say'in.

[@johnnywatson4914]

@@helenwalter6830 I don't think you though about what you expressed here anymore than the gal in the video.

[@brandywineblue]

Because they are trying to force God to conform to a passing worldly trend, instead of conforming themselves and the world to the will of God

[@timmartin6885]

I'm involved with the LCMC (Lutheran Churches in Mission For Christ), and this is spot on regarding the problems facing the church (not just Lutheran) today. So many "Christians" seem to have the view that not only homosexuality, but also the core teaching of the Gospel itself is up for grabs - and that all religions are basically just about love and tolerance. I'm not sure about the issues regarding ordination of women and about not letting Christians from other denominations participate in communion, but I can certainly see the Missouri Synod's side of the argument (especially on ordination). Communion is trickier, since I don't see any Scriptural teaching that communion should be withheld from true believers. I'm always open to a discussion, though.

[@FrameworxProductions]

ALONG WITH THE HISTORIC CHRISTIAN FAITH

[@007TruthSeeker]

Thank you for posting this video. Clearly, the truth hurts some people, for whom it sounds "unfair," but the scriptures have proven trustworthy as the centuries have passed. May those who need to see this video do so, soon. God bless you, your work and those you love.

[@Hannodb1961]

A Certain poster here which will remain anonymous, as he is unable to participate in reasoned discussion, made the rather strange comment that Jesus never said anything about Homosexuality. Actually, He did: Matt 19:4-5, He says: "He answered, “Have you not read that he who created them from the beginning made them male and female, and said, ‘Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’?" With that, Jesus confirmed the Old Testament teaching of what God's design and purpose was for sexuality, and how God defined marriage. However, this particular individual argues exactly as Romans 1 tells us to the natural man would argue.

[@Frankly7]

@Jyoeru Zaberu You're the one bringing in the red herring. You're not actually addressing his argument.

[@Frankly7]

@Jyoeru Zaberu The verse Jesus was referencing was from Genesis, and so it was a passage that was supposed to be applied broadly to the human race. If Jesus referenced the passage as a worthy authority on theology, then why didn't he voice whatever disagreements with it you think he had?

[@Hamann9631]

Hannodb1961. Great comment. Jesus also taught against the sin of same sex sex by reaffirming The Law of Chastity in the Sermon on the Mount. The other parts of The Law of Chastity which he didn't explicitly mention can be logically and reasonable inferred to be equally endorsed.

[@brandywineblue]

The gate is narrow, and the road to perdition wide because while there's only one way to get to Heaven, there's a million ways to get it wrong. Sex insude the bonds of holy Matrimony without frustrating the natural end, ie conception/childbirth is the narrow gate. A million perversions exist, as our far fallen society seems dead set on exploring and demonstrating. God help us all

[@theeastlincolntimes2]

a zoroastrian eunuch, 2 pygmy elephants, the bass player from dakim and an unopened copy of cop and a half. Did this really happen?

[@jhellert1]

The bass player from Dokken is Jeff Pilson.

[@TheLutheranSatire]

@cmbmsu Sunday School teachers teach children. And, to echo my buddy Chaz, if you think that women only have value to the church if they're serving as pastors, I think that's about as chauvinistic of a position as one can take on the issue.

[@benextraanimates7398]

I go to Catholic school and I am Catholic, but I have a crush who is Lutheran I asked what a Lutheran Church service is like and unfortunately she said "it's like school mass but it has female pastors, and they give communion to everyone no matter what. This is unfortunate😢. Id be fine dating an orthodox Lutheran but a Liberal one not so much

[@rickpettey8822]

In reply to Mandy's comment: "If it was that important, don't you think Jesus would've said only men are to be pastors?" Jesus did through His Apostle Paul. Besides that, the whole order of creation undergirds the biblical injunction against women being pastors. And to ask a "why" question to substantiate your insistence on women's ordination is arrogant for it tries to enter into the mind of God and insist on Him doing something to substantiate to you what you refuse to accept from His Word elsewhere.

[@dlwatib]

If it was that important to ordain women, don't you think Jesus would have said something about it? Or done something about it, like, I dunno, invited Mary Magdalene to the Last Supper?

[@robertcarlson5819]

dlwatib No- Paul doesn't speak for Jesus. Jesus speaks for Jesus. Paul doesn't count for that as Paul never actually met Jesus. Jesus also spent all that time condemning gay people. Oh wait- that was Paaaaauuuul too! Hmmm....... I wonder if Paul had actually, like, known Jesus from Adam he would have had a few corrections for Paul.

[@robertcarlson5819]

Rick Pettey I love it- Jesus said this through this person. Jesus said that through that person. Nope- he didn't. Jesus never said these things. Reality.

[@afterburn7225]

+Leif Force Actually, in Acts 9:4 - 6, Jesus directly talks to Saul on the road, so technically speaking, your assertion that Saul never met Jesus is incorrect. Not to mention, but Jesus DID correct Saul, but not in the way you think he would, but Jesus corrected him from his Christian killing spree. And as for condemning the actions of gays, Saul's understanding of both the ceremonial and moral laws are why he condemns these actions. Keep in mind, homosexuality is also forbidden by the moral laws, which Christians still follow, mind you, but they are not condemned to death like they were by the ceremonial Jewish laws.

[@tuck-brainwks-eutent-hidva1098]

In the Christian East (Orthodox ☦), the Holy Spirit living through the Church (across geography & through time) has made clear how we are to live out our life in Christ -- since the 1st century. Of course, the Scripture confirms this to us. Interestingly, we are helpfully reminded by many teachers that priesthood isn't simply an issue of male or female. God must call each of to the life He has in store for us, and not all men are called to priesthood any more than all women are called to motherhood.

[@christophermccready2248]

"Rescuing children from their abusive homeschooling Bible-thumping *neo-nazi* parents?" "N E I N" 😂😂😂😂😂😂 Surely that cheekiness was purposeful, Hans.

[@Toetalwar]

"and to them Paul said, it's only gonna get worse Brothers and Sisters*" *Paul actually only said Brothers

[@harringt100]

Wow, this makes me really curious. Did Bishop Hansen get any mail referencing this video?

[@OrthodoxofUSA]

Tamar Harrington I really hope so.

[@john91722]

ELCA = LINO Lutheran In Name Only

[@TheLutheranSatire]

Is the "historical context" where we discover that they don't mean what they say anymore?

[@JustinBierschenk]

Ya! go LCMS (Lutheran Church Missouri Synod) we old school! Go Martin Luther!

[@microfrogyt]

My kind of Lutheran is Martin Luther. Aw yeah.

[@tomithompson4668]

Yes, indeed! He stood for principle, He knew what the Holy word of God stated about a great many issues. Despite many people trying to point out some insufficiencies or unfavorables about him, I believe that to understand Martin Luther and the kind of life he had and the environment he found himself in, is to love him and understand he did the best he could with the truth he had.

[@afterburn7225]

+Microfrog Technically speaking, Martin Luther was Catholic, not Lutheran. The term "Lutheran" came later

[@aaroncarlson1162]

+laveremedia mind you he was referring to "Jews" as a religion to refused to recognize Christ, not as a race (which became popularized by the Nazis) - in that respect, it was no different than criticizing Muslims by extension of Islam.

[@rickpettey8822]

+Afterburn 722 - Technically speaking Luther was and remained Catholic. After his excommunication what he no longer was was Roman Catholic. This is an extremely important point made by the first Lutheran reformers. For they, along with Luther, went to great pains to show that is was Rome who was the rebel/radical when it began to hold to doctrines contrary to the one, true, catholic faith. Confessional Lutherans are catholic, but NOT Roman Catholic. Rome, falsely and contrary to the actual meaning of the word "catholic" included the word in the title of their church. One cannot be "catholic" while locating this catholicity to a specific organization and location. In other words Roman "Catholic" is an oxymoron.

[@matthewstanger1423]

Lol I'm a Reformed Baptist of America I can agree with lots of what he says.

[@john91722]

There is a divide between many denominations, where some get away from preaching Christ Crucified, Died and Resurrected, neglect or down play the Sacraments, get tired of preaching on the forgiveness of sin and move towards the concept of political areas. The distinction as to the Kingdom of the Left and the Kingdom of the Right comes into play.

[@TheLutheranSatire]

@cmbmsu When you have the practice of the apostles themselves and the entire testimony of church history arguing that only the 11 disciples are there in that room mentioned in John 20, I'd say the burden is on you to prove that women were there.

[@TheLutheranSatire]

@mandyho13 4. If you can't trust the words of Paul in once place, you can't trust them anywhere else. So throwing out 1 Timothy 2 means you must also throw out our clearest texts on justification, sanctification, the substitutionary atonement, the resurrection of the body, baptism, the Lord's Supper, Christian love, etc...As well as the entire Gospels of Mark and Luke, as they both received their instruction through Paul.

[@helenwalter6830]

If I lie to you one will you never again trust a word I say? If I say the wrong answer because of certain circumstances does that mean I am never correct about anything? No. Because if that was true, nobody would trust anybody because no one is perfect except for Jesus. And Paul also said in 1 Timothy 2:8-9 that women should not wear jewelry. Now that hasn't stopped God-fearing women from wearing necklaces, has it? I have heard that you aren't a huge fan of the Catholic church but I've heard they don't let women be ordained and yet they still allow rosarys to be part of their doctrine. Are you really going to condemn any woman who gets her ears pierced to sin unless she repents? But there is context there, you might say, jewelry and gold are shorthand for arrogance and sometimes prostitution. Of course, then you could say the same thing about the ordaining of women as priests. There is context there too. There will be context in every verse in the Bible that is read. Because even though God chose people to tell the word of God for all mankind, and even though he was telling them what to write, those people had free will and because of our natural sin they were not god and therefore put their experiences on top of what God was telling them to write. But really, if you believe that God gave his only son to die on the cross for our sins and that we are saved in Christ, then God is not going to keep you from heaven because you felt a religious vocation and just happened to be born a woman.

[@TheLutheranSatire]

@mandyho13 And yes, Christ did first show himself to the women on Easter Sunday. But it was the 12, and not the women, on whom He breathed the Holy Spirit and whom He commanded to forgive the sins of the repentant and retain the sins of the unrepentant, which is the institution of the pastoral office. So Easter Sunday itself makes quite clear that Jesus both highly valued women and their service in His Church and that He did not open the pastoral office to them.

[@helenwalter6830]

They were the first people upon which Jesus showed himself to after he had risen from the grave and he told them that to go and tell the good news (the gospel, if I may) to the other disciples. If we want to get really technical here, they are pseudo-apostles. And who do you think would listen to a woman preach in that time? It was hard enough to get people to hear the gospel as is.

[@davidweihe6052]

⁠​⁠@@helenwalter6830Christianity was originally passed on by slaves and women, so depending on women to not use their gifts to further a congregation’s work just because they lack the title is rather unlikely.

[@Mcfirefly2]

What about the kind of Lutherans who have signed a covenant with Rome to say there is no longer any difference in their gospel?

[@tuck-brainwks-eutent-hidva1098]

Oh, don't miss his "Frank the Hippie Pope & Patriarch Bart Sing Love Songs" video ... As a previously-Lutheran-ish, now Eastern Orthodox, person, I can bet it'll make you chuckle -- and the end will make you roar!

[@GestasLeftcross]

@hahnbd See also the LC 405.141: "... we must mention the sort of obedience due to superiors, persons whose duty it is to command and to govern. For all other authority is derived and developed out of the authority of parents." Women has authority over men in motherhood; if you have a mother, she has authority over you (and all men have mothers). I assume I simply didn't make my point clear.

[@CoryTheRaven]

Wait, what? The Misery Synod is the OTHER kind of Lutheran! I got to the end of this and I wasn't sure if you were making fun of the ELCA or the LCMS.

[@aaroncarlson1162]

Or both! Sometimes it's fun to just sit back and tease ones self.

[@U2andColdplayFan]

the LCMS is not that far gone so I don't know what you're talking about, there are liberals but not THAT liberal

[@zacharybowen4247]

Missouri synod'

[@RobertEWaters]

No, the Missouri Synod IS the Lutheran one. The ELCA just plays Lutheran.

[@MarcillaSmith]

Robert E. Waters please be reasonable. Whether you agree with their theology or not, the ELCA is the continuation of the mainline Lutheran tradition. LCMS is a smaller, splinter group ( regardless of whether or not it "is right)

[@HenryJaeger-cd4rg]

As a WELS lutheran I'm glad we can agree with the LCMS about the ELCA.

[@covvie]

I often have to go through this same sort of routine. "That's not my kind of Presbyterian church..."

[@TheLutheranSatire]

@mandyho13 The Words of Christ, through the mouth of His apostle Paul, explicitly state in 1 Timothy 2 that women are not to teach or have authority over men and, in 1 Timothy 3, that overseers (pastors) are to be men who are above reproach, able to teach, and not given to a number of vices.

[@gbush92223]

Wow Ive come full circle. This is from 2011?

[@kaybrown4978]

Well played!

[@Rood67]

ROFLMBO I don't think you thought about those words before they came out of your mouth. 😅

[@joewhlm]

Great vid. It can be applied to all denominations of Protestants not just Lutherans.

[@Listeninghearts.online]

I liked the ending where you refer all complaints to our Bishop, Hanson. He seems like a nice guy. I have only met him a few times while my church was closing. (Want to buy a church in Waukesha, WI? Call Bishop Hanson's office) HeHe.

[@utubeo]

Love the "send complaints to" address!!!

[@henrybierman8431]

How is this from twelve years ago

[@stevewaterfield4862]

My mom always said that if the shoe fits wear it...

[@_patrickst]

but that`s wrong buddy. f.e. in the middle east sexual child abuse fits just very well for some men, but thats by far no reason to do it. That`s pragmatism and that`s wrong. Also in theologian/ecclesiologian questions you should do whats right, not what works

[@TheLutheranSatire]

@mandyho13 Mandy, would you say God was repressing the other 11 tribes of Israel when he established that only the Levites would serve as priests?

[@helenwalter6830]

Priest and pastors are different. Jewish priests and Christian priests are different.

[@Joleyn-Joy]

@@helenwalter6830 It was a comparison. He's asking if it's logical to say that prohibitions are repression.

[@langreeves6419]

I'm so thankful God led me to the ELCA. I'm so thankful that we both can go to a church which agrees with the Bible, even though agreeing with the Bible means different things to different denominations. We are blessed with many denominations, all can come to Christ.

[@rorshakks]

The ELCA isn't being made fun off. This IS how they are? Pray that just even one would leave the ELCA.

[@robertcarlson5819]

rorshakks I pray everyone leaves the ELMS. Brainwashed, Stepford-christianbots who are not allowed to think. God save them from their own trap.

[@robertbryant9611]

Leif Force I looked through all of the stuff you've subscribed to recently. LCMS, Huffpo, AND "Atheism is Unstoppable?" Watch out, we have a freethinker here!

[@robertcarlson5819]

Van Bryant Yep. I don't discount anything. Did you notice most of my subscriptions were to Deism channels? Can't quite tell the tone of your post.

[@ryanhunneshagen3704]

I was just and an ELCA synod assembly and when I was there we welcomed 2 new churches into the ELCA from lcms

[@TheLutheranSatire]

It's quite clear to me that those who have been posting lately don't understand the position of those who oppose women's ordination. I'm more than happy to have a straw-man free conversation with anyone who's interested. But I find the comment thread here to be unsuitable for such a discussion. Anyone who so desires, shoot me an email at [e-mail].

[@202saphira]

I'm lcms this is my kind of lutheran (look it up)

[@john91722]

@christhelutheran Please re-read the Keys of the Office description for Pastors in Luther's Small Catechism.

[@tbirdpunk]

@mandyho13 It isn't a matter of whether or not human beings approve. Just because you claim they are Pastors does not mean that God views them as such. The very fact that they are openly defying Scripture, the Word, suggests that they are in opposition to God on the matter. As for why women are allowed to speak and teach in the Church is a matter of understanding the context which Paul speaks. Paul spoke concerning order in the church. It does not change the requirements for a Pastor.

[@guavaberry1952]

He keeps saying "...along with the Ancient Christian Faith...." Should he come right out and say, "The Orthodox Christian Church", since that's precisely what it is....?

[@mandyho13]

@TheLutheranSatire Yes, it does make it clear that He valued men and women, but it DOES NOT make it clear that women were not opened to the pastoral office. Their absence does not equal exclusion.

[@GestasLeftcross]

@hahnbd Ninth: Since there are female prophets in the Hebrew Scriptures, what does your idea of women not having authority come to in light of Scripture? Witness also households in Acts where women are named first to denote authority, and women who are named as partners in Paul's ministries (Romans, for example, was delivered to Rome by a woman). Tenth: I don't need your help, I'm clarifying your misapprehensions. My help and rest are in God, and not your approval. But I appreciate your concern.

[@DarthGanondorf00772]

great vid! also, love the background.

[@mandyho13]

@LadyAibrean We are all sinners. How are we to avoid all of these sinners when we ALL are sinners and all sin in many different ways? We are not here to judge others and their sins... That is up to God. We are here to spread the Good News and live our lives in loving reaction to what Jesus has done for us... saved us.

[@GestasLeftcross]

@hahnbd Addendum: My interpretation may make it "impossible to have a fair discussion" regarding interpretation as such, but what of the actual facts which have nothing to do with my viewpoint? Above, 1, 2, 4, 7, 8, 9. You can believe what you want, but if you claim that I am in error you will need to present something more substantial than "you're interpreting from your context" to explain yourself. And I will correct what I hold to be your error, as is my duty as part of the Church.

[@tbirdpunk]

@lmlcpastor I'm sure the Buddhists are not concerned. Let me know when the elephants are ready to respond, I look forward to seeing that.

[@gratiasola]

@mandyho13 Mandy, that's quite beside the point. I could recite "The Female of the Species" by Rudyard Kipling, which might give some interesting answers from Natural Law, but that wouldn't be the answer. The point is that God says so. I can rely on Him. Who am I to question him? May I think He is a fool for forbidding women to teach or usurp authority over men in the churches? What gives me the right to reject His apostle? Is your interpretation to reject Paul's authority on this matter?

[@mandyho13]

@gratiasola They are not mistaken. They are pastors, whether you approve or not. So if women are to be silent in church, why is it that you allow them to teach Sunday School? Why do you contradict the doctrine of Paul????

[@germanange23]

too bad we're not talking about the quality of the people, but the quality of the theology. and the difference between "us" (lcms) and "them" (elca)

[@WyldKnyght]

YES, THAT IS MY KIND OF LUTHERAN!

[@miscmccoy]

So should the c in catholic when referring to it the way we do.

[@Hebrew42Day]

While he's right - the historic Christian faith practiced full immersion, believed in man's free will, and most importantly did not believe man was born with a sin nature. That was from the gnostics. Oh also? They believed we are saved by grace yet that grace led to faith producing deeds of righteousness. (James 2:14-24)

[@tuck-brainwks-eutent-hidva1098]

Affirming this (as best as I, a newbie, am able!) from within the ancient tradition of Eastern Orthodoxy....😏🙏🕯☦

[@Phill0old]

Your evidence for full immersion is.........

[@Phill0old]

Your evidence for not a sin nature is .......

[@Phill0old]

Your evidence for a libertarian free will is ......

[@Tron4JC]

Except for fact that Origen, Tertullian, Ambrose etc did affirmed we are born with sin nature. And infant baptismal regeneration was affirmed even by the most synergistic of fathers.

[@thewordrules]

@mandyho13 Just curious. I have Bahai friends who do all the works you mentioned above. They are kind, don't drink or smoke, they are truly good people. By man's definition of good that is. Now they don't believe in Jesus so are they just being what God created them to be; non-believers. Also, when people break the law and the cop pulls them over, do you think they could get away with telling the officer, "you're so judgmental?"

[@magicsXfive]

I guess you skipped over the word "satire" when you read the channel name.

[@gratiasola]

@jlh2081 How can God make you a pastor when He forbids women to teach in the Church? Do you teach that your modern opinions should be obeyed rather than the word of Christ's apostle Paul? How can you exalt yourself above Jesus' apostle and then claim to be Jesus' minister? Please explain this to me. Meaning no hurt at all - gratiasola

[@raykidder906]

This dialogue is illustrative of the fruits of women's ordination. Religious groups with female pastors become Unitarian-Universalist, and tolerant of what other Christians believe are sexual sins.

[@MrPawnman99]

BTW, the one about women being silent in church? That's in 1 Corinthians...the New Testament.

[@MrPawnman99]

Then why are you using Psalms 5:4-5 as one of your references? Matthew 5:17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them." 2 Timothy 3:16 "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness," Either the whole book is God-inspired, or it isn't.

[@jamesaustin1988]

She's from the same church who owns Davey and Goliath? Interesting.

[@RobertEWaters]

Whereas the One, Holy, Christian and Apostolic Church only includes believers.

[@orCane]

I find this attitude really strange. I have sincere admiration for how well read LCMS is on church matters, your level of knowledge and the complexity of your theological reasoning. This kind of conservative pseudo-orthodoxy and sectarianism you have going though, might be complex but it's certainly not very deep. I mean, you make claims about the traditions of a supposedly singular "historic Christian faith" to defend positions that are otherwise really difficult to support, but in every other case you seek to distance yourself in every way from every other denomination based on an arrogant self-understanding as (somehow) orthodox reformists. Doctrine is not the same as dogma, and being dogmatic about your doctrine deepens the fissures in the fractured church. The world is changing and possibly at its end, there is no time for sectarianism, we have to embrace ecumenism. I'm from Sweden, so I feel that the critique you have against ELCA might as well be aimed at the Church of Sweden (SvK). Like I said, you study well, so I can't take you in a debate (I've tried on other of your videos before), but if you truely believe that the truth of the gospel lies in reactionary tradition and strict, undeviant adherence to very precise theological reasoning, I believe you have fundamentally misunderstood who Jesus was and how He undertook His mission. If you don't think it sounds unchristian to not let a fellow Christian partake in holy communion, let me ask you this. Did Jesus demand doctrinal confessions from his disciples before sharing the bread and wine the last supper? Do you believe He will demand it at His second coming? Do you disagree that the refusal to let someone participate is literally antithetical to the root meaning of the word communion?

[@Joleyn-Joy]

I'm not member of the LCMS but what you said that the world needs ecumenism is incorrect. If the entire world corrupted the teaching of Christianity and only 12 people remained true, these 12 people should not engage in too much ecumenism. We must not let the material and secular world drive our theology, only our actions towards the world itself, that is, the tactics which we use to call people to the gospel. As for refusing communion, Jesus will not require you the way they do, because he'll know who's loyal to him. How is the church supposed to know that? It's for that kind of things that creeds exist. I'm neutral in that subject however I can see the logic in it.

[@orCane]

@@CJ2345ish Reflecting upon something together doesn't mean having to agree on that thing. And when St Paul talked about drinking judgement on onesself, the context was of home churches where the congregation drank entire bottles of wine together. Sharing a single sip of wine in a highly ritualised moment is not the same. To participate in the mystery is not some intellectual exercise - such a view is both ableist and unsupported by Scripture.

[@orCane]

@@Joleyn-Joy Instead of imagening some hypothetical world where my argument doesn't hold, I think it behooves us to look at the real world. We live in a time in which there are many different churches, all of which imagine themselves to be true and uncorrupted and who all try to follow the creed as best they can. All churches, both conservative and liberal, reject or affirm different parts of secularity as a consequence of being in the world. To think Jesus would only have communion with a few elect loyalists seems like the complete opposite of what the Bible actually said. Jesus very deliberately ate his dinner with sinners, that was the entire point - to include the excluded. He even ate with people he knew would betray and deny him.

[@tuck-brainwks-eutent-hidva1098]

Eastern Orthodoxy isn't much given to proselytism, but since I'm new there, and my last card-carrying stop was in Lutherandom, I can't help but notice the either-ors when I venture past the Schism, never mind the Reformation! 😉 It seems worth noting that before humanity uncritically embraced the downsides of the western "Enlightenment" (along with its many gifts), much less modernity, there wasn't an inherent conflict between faithfulness and openness. Holding the (lit. "boundary stone") dogma in one place reminds us that God's good-created cosmos is our home, even if we have to navigate it with caution, in our broken condition.... There's one true faith, only One Truly Faithful, and we're all trying to stay on, get to, or discover His path.... 🙏🕯☦

[@supernickdoeverything3728]

Well I'm a Lutheran as well

[@GestasLeftcross]

@hahnbd Additionally, assuming you are a Christian, I strongly suggest you consider what "new interpretation" means, unless you reject the letters of Paul, who clearly reinterpreted the entirety of Scripture in his effort to explain the salvation of God in Jesus despite the crucifixion. Simply shouting that something is a new interpretation actually isn't a very good argument in the Christian context. More effective is the question, does this interpretation further love of God and neighbor?

[@ibnabraham]

@mandyho13, very sadly, I read words very like yours in Matthew 25 "‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?" So you're uncomfortable with the idea that the ELCA members are vile and sinful people? Though we're not in the ELCA, we're not comfortable with the fact that we are sinners, but we know it's true. Accuse us. It's true. I pray you could know Christ's word for you instead of relying upon your own works.

[@MrPawnman99]

The bible also tells us we can take slaves, marry our brother's widow (in fact, it commands that one), and demands women be silent in church. Does your kind of Lutheran follow all of those commands as well?

[@Marksnotebook]

I'm with you.

[@GestasLeftcross]

@hahnbd Please refer to the Large Catechism in the Book of Concord, under the Fourth Commandment. I will quote from the Wengert/Kolb translation: "God has given this walk of life, fatherhood and motherhood, a special position of honor, higher than that of any other walk of life under it. Not only has he commanded us to love parents but to honor them... he distinguishes father and mother above all other persons on earth, and places them next to himself." (page 400, paragraph 105)

[@GestasLeftcross]

@hahnbd Fourth: If you know anything about Luther's writings, you would see (as I outlined above) that for him all human authority is rooted in that 4th commandment. If you are not Lutheran, we can have that conversation, but otherwise you're going to have to deal with the Book of Concord at some point. Fifth: in what way was I applying "our context to Luther"? I reported what Luther said, how he exegeted the commandments. That's just using historical documents, which you are doing as well.

[@GestasLeftcross]

@hahnbd Are you now saying that women can have authority over their sons only until they are grown? This does not mesh with Luther's explanation. I will ignore your comment about Adam and Eve for the moment, since it only applies to husbands, and the statement I am interested in refuting is "women are not to teach or have authority over men." This concept is clearly counter to Luther's interpretation of authority, held by men and women, as outlined in the fourth commandment.

[@mandyho13]

@gratiasola Yes, the Word of God is a wonderful treasure and needs to be treated as such. That's why God calls us to read AND discern the word. You may think the bible is clear in women not wanting to be pastors, but I don't see it that way along with MANY other Christians. I would rather err on the side of love and beg forgiveness.

[@gratiasola]

@mandyho13 lol. vile hatred? wow. WRONG interpretation! I love you, Mandy! Jesus loves you too. He just doesn't want women to be pastors. His Word and will are clear, even when the world's and ours aren't. We can rely on the Word of God! This is the most wonderful treasure a Christians has and something Lutherans especially teach with all its power!

[@mandyho13]

@gratiasola So we shouldn't question the texts that speak in favor of slavery? If we shouldn't question scripture, why did it need to be edited by men? Why is every last little ounce that was "inspired by God" not in the bible?

[@emmaweishaar1424]

lol this was great

[@mandyho13]

@hahnbd I'm making an effort to live my life as Jesus would want... loving others, even people like you, thought it's quite difficult. It's not our job to condemn others... God is the one who will judge us. It's pretty self-righteous of you to say God won't listen to me. What makes you think God wouldn't listen to someone who is praying to God? I may not agree with what you may pray for, but I would never say God does not listen to you.

[@gratiasola]

@lmlc So what exactly are my misogynistic tendencies? Could you make your judgments a little clearer? What have I done or said that indicates that I hate women? This is a serious accusation! I hold to the doctrine of Paul, the apostle whom the Son of God, Jesus Christ, sent. He says that women should be silent in the churches and that women should not teach or usurp authority over a man. This is what has guided my very loving attitude toward women who mistakenly think that they are pastors.

[@mandyho13]

@gratiasola No, God does not lie, but men (humankind) do. And the Word was put in the hands of men, and therefore, it is our right and duty to discern what is truth. It is not as clear cut and dry and you would like it to be. Things were written for a reason, addressing certain situations that were being faced at the time. I seek the truth in His Word, but I don't take it for granted that it is in black in white. Sometimes its between the lines.

[@WhiteBraveheart1]

hahaha.....the demise of Lutheranism (proof of God's blessing to the RCC).

[@RondelayAOK]

As a Catholic, I just get so confused by all these denominational flavors of things. ELCA? huh?

[@brycepatties]

RondelayAOK ELCA = Evangelical Lutheran Church in America. They are a liberal branch of Lutheranism that pretty much denies what a lot of the historic Christian church has taught. They affirm homosexuality, women's ordination, and a whole host of other heretical doctrines. The creator of Lutheran Satire is a pastor of the Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod, a conservative, confessional denomination. Because part of what we believe is that the Church submits only to Christ and what He has said, things get a little messy when there is disagreement on what the Bible actually says.

[@RobertEWaters]

RondelayAOK Enough Latitude to Cover Anything.

[@grandekev1]

@@chiara1194 my thoughts exactly. I find it funny that LCMS churches look closer to Catholicism than some Novus Ordo parishes.

[@brandywineblue]

@@grandekev1 same evil spirit animating ECLA and Novus Ordo. Both put love of self/worldly things before the love of God. Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of God, and if you do not know Him, how can you love Him? And once you do know Him, how can you not love Him, who gave His only Son for us?

[@GestasLeftcross]

@hahnbd Luther's explanation includes both father and mother, so I was using a term that refers to both. Show the courtesy of not putting words in my mouth, please. Also, that argument of parent comes from your context, so you need something stronger. Female authority over men applies in the church just as it does in the home, since ecclesia, oeconomia, and politia are all part of the left hand of God. Your claim is based on a a confusion of the two kingdoms.

[@gratiasola]

@jlh2081 What part of "Whoever hears you hears Me" is unclear? I don't understand. I forgive sins by the command of my Lord Jesus Christ. Nobody can say, "Your forgiveness isn't as good as Jesus'". That would false (Reformed) doctrine. Paul was an apostle by the will of Jesus Christ. God spoke through him as through Moses. Once again, should we disagree with Paul, who is an apostle of God? If you don't listen to him, you're not listening to Jesus. That is breaking the 3rd commandment.

[@gratiasola]

@cmbmsu What was it that Jesus said to the woman? "Go and sin no more." How can you teach others to trust in God's grace to reform their lives when you refuse to reform your behavior according to the Word of God? This is wrong on so many levels.

[@gratiasola]

@jlh2081 Totally, I agree! This means we should never tell anybody that he has sinned, but then we should tell him to go and sin no more... (pardon my poor attempt at sarcasm). I apologize if my salt has too much flavor. Isn't God a loving God to give to His church the pastoral office! Why can't we accept a gift from God as He gives it, instead of doubting His apostle and relying more on Marxist distinctions of class warfare than Biblical distinctions on the order of creation?

[@ImagineGarydos]

My kind of Lutheran is Roman Catholicism -- along with the historic Christian faith! (Good video, but I will still tease my Protestant brothers!)

[@007TruthSeeker]

Your comments are consistent with those someone would make who has never learned what the scriptures actually say. The LCMS wants to please our Creator by taking His will seriously, as it has been expressed to us in the scriptures. It may not sound "fair" to the modern "can't we all just get along" world, but that was prophesied in those scriptures.