Thinning Apple Fruitlets, When, How, and Why: Size, Regularity, Safety, Quality

[@KyleMerl]

I was just at my parents house over the weekend and saw that their pear tree could use some thinning. The thing is huge with tons of pears on it but they're tiny and crowded. How fitting that you decided to post this video when you did! Now I'll actually (somewhat) know what I'm doing.

[@SkillCult]

Yes, I was hoping it would be out in time for timely thinning :)

[@amandanorris8293]

Thank you! This is the best video I have found to teach me about thinning apples. We have one tree, maybe 4 years old, that we got six apples from last year. There are hundreds this year! I knew we needed to do something, but I wasn't sure what. Your video was very informative and helpful. It's really nice to have explanations for why I should what I am doing.

[@SkillCult]

Glad I could help. I just talked about it a little more in my last video on homestead project updates, but maybe you already saw that. It's hard to thin enough, but if you make two passes and roughly use that 6 to 8 inch rule on the second pass, that helps. it looks like you're not leaving anything til they start growing.

[@janxious]

Hoping the apples this year are mature enough I need these techniques. Great video!

[@quintond.7888]

Thanks man, this kind of info is gold to me. Could I ask how big is your homestead and how much is dedicated to orchard? It seems like you have endless acres of apple trees. Every time I watch one of your apple videos I hear you talking about several varieties I haven't heard you mention.

[@SkillCult]

I have 40 acres and barely any of it is orchard. My trees are scattered in groups. I'm an experimenter/home grower, so I don't have a lot of trees, just a lot of varieties! I probably had over 250 at one point. I lost some, and haven't counted again. One tree has avbout 150 varieties.

[@quintond.7888]

I've seen the frankentree, that thing is insane! So, lots of trees, intensively managed, I'm assuming this means mostly dwarfed rootstocks? I would imagine thinning to be much more difficult on a full size tree. Is it as necessary?

[@LolitasGarden]

This is useful and timely- I'm about to get into it with my plum trees. Judging by the shadow it looks like you got yourself a GoPro Session. So wide. For medium shots you gotta frame them about 10 inches from the lens. Interesting aspect ratio goodness going on in here. Thanks for the info.

[@SkillCult]

Yes, a viewer sent it to me and I've just recently started using it. Still figuring out where to set the angle a bit, but improving. Run and gun is nice. I need to put a windscreen on it.

[@SkillCult]

I'm letting my french prune plum overbear like crazy. Hopefully it won't break any branches. I should really thin it a bit.

[@lynnmoss2127]

I've seen Stefen Sobkowiak in Montreal promote thinning of the small apples and I tried it on my pear trees. The apple trees on this old homestead have been neglected for decades and it is probably best to start with fresh trees? I don't know? They are pretty large and overgrown. There are about 4 different varieties here, the old fashioned Granny Smith and Red Deliscious and Macintosh and Golden Deliscious, I think. They are all mishapen little pucks from being unpruned for so long. Perhaps there is a way to graft onto these ancient root stocks some new varieties? I will watch very closely how you do that with the scion. I realize I cannot ask you a simpleton question and expect you to place your knowledge and experience in a nut shell and respond. So, what books can I read? Of course I want Catherine and a few others you have mentioned. In the last few years we have been upgraded from zone 5 to zone 6, but a late hanging apple would likely just freeze here, and the weather is weird and getting weirder. I went to your website, I will go there again, perhaps you have written a book to answer all of my newbie questions and it is waiting for me somewhere on your site?

[@SkillCult]

For grafting, you can check out my 1 part grafting series. I like an approach called frameworking, which keeps the framework of trees and replaces just the fruiting wood. There is a video in there on that. You can also watch the video series on making Chuck's frankentree, where I do that and follow it for a few years. And this one... kzbin.info/www/bejne/g5zFi5mhoZtnqrM. Chances are they are worth keeping. When I framework, I remove most or all of the current growing and fruiting wood in one year, but you can also do it gradually, or one area at a time. Tackling an old tree is a bit of an art and hard to talk about. I don't have any good references or videos on that.

[@lynnmoss2127]

@@SkillCult I've found your videos! Wow thank you. And your comment partially addresses my question about the severity of the pruning required, and how long to wait for grafting. I wonder the impact, if any, pruning via chainsaw will have on the big old branches accepting scion?

[@SkillCult]

@@lynnmoss2127 You'll see when you watch those videos that I don't usually recommend chainsaw pruning. That gets rid of the structural wood. If you keep the structural wood you don't have to regrow it, and it's a lot healthier for the tree. You can do a section at a time, but I don't recommend just doing a small branch here and there as it will have to compete with the old growing wood which will have an advantage. The disadvantages to frameworking over the more chainsaw friendly top working is that you need more scions and it takes longer. otherwise, it's pretty much better. You can. do a ton of variety too. My most grafted tree had 150 varieties at one point and it's just big, not huge.

[@benbachman8255]

Have you posted a follow on the basket making with Gretchen

[@SkillCult]

No, not yet. Might do that this fall/winter. We'll see how things go.

[@manatoa1]

Have you noticed a correlation between how much you thin and how sweet and/or aromatic the apples get? I know you said size and thinning intensity were correlated but have you noticed eating quality changes? Unrelated, but thanks for inspiring me to improve my soil. I can't make charcoal where I'm living, but I turned last year's fallen leaves into pretty spectacular leaf mold compost. Your pragmatic "do what you can" approach got me doing rather than just thinking and bemoaning my limitations.

[@SkillCult]

I have not noticed that, but it's an interesting question. I've eaten a lot of crowded apples and they can be quite good. One thing that does make a difference is not over babying them with water and food. My dry farmed king davids will knock your socks off with flavor. It's not good for maintaining annual bearing though, so I basically eat them every other year. Cool. It's all about seeing the resources around you. There are way more than most people know.

[@SkillCult]

there is a balance, but a lot of apples are overwatered. I'm sure fertilizing is great within boundaries, but dry farmed fruit can have really outstanding flavor.

[@kalebames1532]

Have you ever had problems with cedar apple rust? I didn't notice any on the video.

[@SkillCult]

No, it's not a problem here thankfully.

[@prattsgreenhousefarm9473]

Great! And very informative as usual thank you.

[@3FeathersFarmstead]

I am in the "Bang yer head" club...another bank of awesomeness. 🤘

[@SkillCult]

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[@johnlord8337]

So, even with these little applets, and mini-apples, do you pickle them or sweet-sour and still be able to eat the thinned fruit as a viable food option (no waste).

[@SkillCult]

I have not tried that. The cyanide in apple seeds in moderation is quite safe and may very well have health benefits. www.google.com/search?safe=off&client=firefox-b-1-ab&q=cyanogenic+glycosides+medicinal+uses&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwja7vLNm9fbAhXKr1QKHfnJALMQ1QII4QEoAg&biw=1583&bih=913 I eat them regularly, but I'm sure there is a limit.

[@kf4744]

They’ll probably be quite acidic

[@daphlavor]

Steven, my issue is complex, I have two apple trees in my front yard, they get about a half day of sunlight, two years ago I had a bumper crop on one of the trees. That’s it, both had a lot of flowers this spring, but all fell off!? Any ideas on what I can do? I live in SE Pa. thanks for all that you do. Sam

[@SkillCult]

You might look at pollination as a possible problem. Maybe a neighbors apple bloomed that one year with yours. Do they bloom at the same time? If so, they should usually pollinate each other I think.

[@parintele-]

For most homegrowers advices are super OK. Still, is good to know for those who want a little more details that thinning is related to next years production. There is a hormone which inhibit fruit bud developement and that hormone is produced by the seeds even from the early stages of seed developement. As a consequence, in some cases it is critical to thin very early, the stage of "half inch/fingernail" being "too late". These cases when thinning is timesensitive are especially related to heavy cropper cultivars. There are few videos on youtube about such phenomenon in Fuji intensive orchards, i think from Australia. Another example of heavy cropper , allthough is is not necessary predisposed to alternate bearing, is Pinova. This cultivar usually produce too many fruits and will not drop enough so in lack of manual thinning,the hormonal effect doubled by resource use for maturing all fruits usually creates issues. Bottom line, the timing of thinning is important... Thinning itself is important generally speaking and in most cases timing is not critical, in case of homegrowers when ideal conditions are not present, probably timing is not a big issue but is good to know in case of some cultivars and when all the needs of the tree are satisfied it MAY be important so it is not bag to read more about it and do what is needed to prevent alternate bearing.

[@SkillCult]

Thanks, good comments. I didn't know about the early seed development affecting bearing the following year. I think with my trees it may have as much to do with cultural care as bearing.

[@parintele-]

SkillCult indeed, in most cases this is the main reason, especially on more "normal" cultivars. Both causes of alternate bearing are somehow independent and somehow related...hormonal inhibition and competition for resources between fruit(seeds) of the current year and next year crop initiation/developement. Average cultivars or lack of best culture technology will not have so many flowerbuds or may not set "all" due to lack of weather, nutrients, polenizers and so on...no real "hormonal" issue allthough some inhibition may occur.. Heavy croppers when meet the optimum conditions will trigger a very strong hormonal signal which is enough to inhibit bud transformations into fruiting buds even if food is available after a good but late thinning. There is a whole range of possibilities, from only hormonal in heavy croppers thinned late to moderate croppers ( weak hormonal trigger) but not thinned enough( finally lack of resources to generate fruitbuds for next year). Is just good to know both causes are present and depending on the cultivars and context one can improve the behavior of the trees in terms of constant production thru the years. Is not only a matter of constant and quality production, good thinning is important for the vigor of the trees.... overloading and alternate bearing may cause more healt related issues, in some years trees may lack resources to fight pests and diseases. Maybe apple is not the most sensible species to such things but in case of other species( usually stonefruits) trees are more sensible to various healt issues and finnaly they may die. Apricot apoplexy is one serious issue in case of many cultivars in many parts of the world.

[@SkillCult]

Thanks for the grteat insight. I think for me I need to keep it pretty simple, follow some basic principals and hope for the best. I don't even try to keep my trees in annual bearing, because the conditions are so hard on them. I've not seen an abandoned or unirrigated apple tree bear annually out here that I can ever remember. They are not that well adapted to a Mediterranean climate. Maybe someday if I get more organized and have automatic watering, I can experiment with pulling them back in to annual bearing. They do it the first few years sometimes, then it's generally alternate from then on. Good point on the health of the tree Re: overbearing. That seems like it would be true.

[@projectmalus]

Liviu e Late thinning sounds like a method that could be used to reduce work. If everything else is good, soil fertility, water, non biennial apple trees, health and bugs, and I saw a heavy crop load, could I leave it later to thin in order to reduce the thinning chore next year? In this case, I would only have a heavy load to thin in alternate years. I might try this when I get to know my varieties better. We here in Cape Breton don't have to worry about thinning this year...I looked at 20 or so wild apple trees the other day and not one apple. Last cold spell was June 25, but also had a heavy frost June 12 just as most apples were flowering.

[@christurley391]

Thanks for the video. The biannual tendency seems like a natural defense mechanism to me. Other than chickens do you use any other pest controls?

[@SkillCult]

Not all species tend toward biennialism, but apples are hardcore. I don't do any pest control. Hopefully I never will have to.

[@pantaipasirputih8770]

Excuse me, whats the story with coplanting apples with Olives. Can you please explain ?

[@SkillCult]

It's accidental. I just had those olive trees in pots under the apples and they rooted into the ground.

[@ruthenerson9594]

Can a person thin out at blossom time instead of when there are apples on the trees?

[@SkillCult]

You can, but I don't recommend it. Pollination isn't reliable or consistent. for instance, this year we have had a massive madrone bloom that started before the apple bloom and is still going after it. So the bees worked that more than the apples. If you thin after fruit set, you make sure to get max pollination in case something goes wrong. Usually it's weather. If it's all soggy and cold during bloom, you'll get low pollination.

[@mvblitzyo]

great information ..

[@swarashruti5335]

My alples remained tiny like the sizes of marbles even after thinning on time. Why is that happening?

[@SkillCult]

Not sure without having more info. Are you sure they are not crab apples and naturally small?

[@johnwaw6363]

Do you ever brace a branch? For a cross pollination maybe?

[@SkillCult]

Yes, occasionally. Pretty often on the biggest apple tree.

[@congamike1]

Awesome! Thanks! OMG! I just looked at my trees... The Japanese beetles are destroying them. I have work to do!

[@SkillCult]

I don't have those here fortunately. Knock on wood.

[@yogabeeutiful]

Bueno patron