Thirty years later - Rethinking Albanian-Greek identity

[@Arber-4673]

Btw I’m so proud of you guys to try to find a dialog with the Greece people about their story…about our story. This also ancient 🇦🇱place we need to see in the future reunited 🙏🇦🇱🇬🇷

[@xhoelsalla3966]

Hi there! Thank you very much for this video. I am 24 years old and I live and work in London. I feel exactly the same. And I'm glad there is other people who feel like me. The truth of the matter is that our story is painfully beautiful! I'm not Greek. I am not Albanian. I am both! If anything this combination makes me stronger!

[@georgekiriak7027]

Albanians in Greece and Greeks in Albania are gonna be the most reasonable people of both Nations in the end lol

[@ΝίκοςΜπέτσης-ΗΠΑ]

I am glad I am not the only feeling the Albanian - Greek identity. I also refuse to choose either one exclusively and consider them both cultures part of my identity. While I had experienced racism and discrimination like most of Albanians from a portion of Greek society, I also experienced love, respect and a sense of acceptance and belonging from other portions of Greek society. As it turns out there are no perfect motherlands.To simplify, Albania is the country where we were born, but Greece the country where we grew up and we came into adulthood. The most insulting question to me today it would be “In case of war between Albania and Greece, which side would you take?” I find it insulting as to me in reality it means “which one of your brothers, cousins, friends would you like to fight against?” Most panelists have forgotten to mention that initially the mass migration of ‘90 of Albanians were met with skepticism from the Greek society due to fear of creation of solid ethnic minorities with separatist tendencies, once it was obvious that most of Albanians had chosen integration and assimilation rather than differentiation and confrontation, the attitudes changed slowly but steadily. Flavors and traces of Albanian/ Arvanitic identity are present into the modern Greek culture, language and identity and precede the creation of the modern Greek state. So the existence of the modern Albanian-Greek sub identity among the Albanian immigrants post 1990 is not a new and unique and unknown phenomenon for the Greek society.

[@Arber-4673]

We are also Greece history ancient history…reunited 🙏🇦🇱❤️

[@hekikoka5792]

You’re a Greek citizen. You could be a Swedish, Portuguese, Tajikistani or Hawaiian citizen. But you’re never really IT as much as you’d like to be. I’ve been brought up in the UK but I’d be dishonest if I said I felt English. In my core I feel Albanian entirely. Sure I’ve adopted mannerisms and British values but my identity is Albanian through and through and I’m not even that patriotic tbh

[@ΝίκοςΜπέτσης-ΗΠΑ]

@@hekikoka5792 You don’t know anything about me. I am not a citizen of neither Greece or Albania

[@alb-333]

they don't choose it, but it is a method of assimilation and the Greeks are experts in this. They assimilated the Pontian Assyrians, Aromanians, Vlachs and Albanians who were the proudest of their ancestry. If your culture is not allowed, despised, attacked, you will eventually assimilate or return to where you came from.

[@xenofonkarykis8417]

"Most panelists have forgotten to mention that initially the mass migration of ‘90 of Albanians were met with skepticism from the Greek society due to fear of creation of solid ethnic minorities with separatist tendencies, once it was obvious that most of Albanians had chosen integration and assimilation rather than differentiation and confrontation, the attitudes changed slowly but steadily." Tell that to Serbia which is currently dealing with Kosovo

[@durimmiziraj4815]

Genetics needs to be considered. Albanians and Greeks are not only similar, but undistinguishable in this regard.

[@maniacgr2617]

Any proof of this? Study?

[@besartmuriqi6871]

i Disagree, here is only Albaniian, thats it .

[@arberibert5756]

@@maniacgr2617 Autosomal DNA

[@DCCrisisclips]

@@maniacgr2617 yes Albanians score high Greek dna. Look at dna test videos on youtube and you will see

[@esti-od1mz]

Tosk albanians share more genes with the greeks, the other more with other balkanic groups.

[@hapianobask4426]

The DNA origin of the Albanians shows that they are an old people in the Balkans, just like the Greeks. The history of the Balkans must change because the politicians have done it to bring the peoples into war. First of all, History must admit that the Albanians did not come to the Balkans in the Middle Ages from the Ottoman conquests. It must be accepted by the Greeks that the existence of the Albanian people is as old as that of the Greek people. Then the discussions should continue on other, deeper plans and without prejudices. Many mysteries can be discovered by researching the Albanian environment but with an open mind.

[@Zatara023]

Why no written Albanian /Illyrian?

[@hapianobask4426]

@@Zatara023 if you do not have negative prejudices against Albanians and you are not an extremist nationalist, the only way to understand your question is to read the history of Albania from different sources with an open mind.

[@lydhrabinojg9341]

Better don't touch this DNA thing as Greek. DNA wise Greeks do not belong in Balkans at all

[@through-faith-alone]

it's not the DNA of the Albanians that was brought by the Ottomans, it's the religion of islam and the idea of Arberia being separate from the rest.

[@livechild212]

@@Zatara023why no history of greece in the last 400 years?

[@anthonychristy4074]

I discovered within the past year that I'm a quarter Arvanite (Albanian Greek) based on my deceased grandfather's written history of his family. No one ever mentioned this fact including my mother. I'm guessing my maternal line has been in Greece since the late medieval period as I've been able to trace my Arvanite roots back to the early 18th c. (near Megalopolis, Peloponnese).

[@alb-333]

It is dramatic that you call Assyrians Pontian brothers, and you hate your people, your brothers. You have been manipulated

[@jimjim3474]

@@alb-333 i 'm crying... Pleeease don't do this to me Maybe you don't know that your grandfathers attacked to our grandfathers in 1940 along with italians I'm not... 'arvanitis' , but they attacked to 'arvanites' too .Trust me And yes pontians are our brothers not only by blood . Unlike your grandfathers they defended greece with their blood in 1940 Btw he is only 25% 'arvanitis'

[@senadbajrami4292]

​@@jimjim3474 they didn't attack you they just protect themselves from 🇬🇷 you guys like serbs,want us to vanish from the face of the earth..but is not gonna work😂❤🇦🇱🇦🇱🇦🇱🇦🇱🇦🇱🇦🇱🇦🇱🇦🇱🇦🇱🇦🇱🇦🇱🇦🇱🇦🇱🇦🇱

[@AlbanianDentist]

unfortunately, most Arvanites are not interested in their origins. I am afraid Greek government policies have suppressed diversity with force to the point that Arvanites are in denial of the fact that their parents and grandparents spoke a language that it was not Greek

[@through-faith-alone]

@@alb-333 it's you who's been manipulated into thinking you're "sqhiptars", people in this area have been one for thousands of years, illyrians, albans, greeks, romans, christians, all one

[@kruja1234w]

I stayed 6 month in Greece in 1994 There was so much bad publicity in tv and everywhere about Albanians ,i came to that point i used to tell them i am vorioepiriot and i named my self Jorgo , I left that place and never went back Tough place to survive as an Albanian

[@garmy441]

...a few words to Mrs. Ilira Aliaj... she grew up in Greece and was given the opportunity to come to Germany with Greek education and citizenship apparently.. she came to a society which, like most northern European countries today, is more tolerant of immigrants as they have been accepting immigrants since the 1960s in contrast to Greece where the first wave of immigrants came from Albania and other former communist countries in 90s and after.. I am a 2nd generation of Greek immigrants in Germany from parents who came to Germany in the 60s.. growing up in Germany I faced the same and greater extent of the problems you describe and not only me, but also the immigrants of the time, of Greek, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, and Turkish...descent just dear ilira you came to Germany at a different period

[@besa3843]

I do feel a huge empathy for people that are born part of a different culture to their heritage. I have moved to the UK and both my parents are Albanian. However, I’ve never considered myself English. I have always referred to myself as Albanian. Unfortunately, this only happens in Greece. As they have always been aggressive and discriminative towards Albanian. Further, a lot of Albanians that ended in Greece or moved to Greece have now lost their true Albanian identity due to pressure from the government and the Greece people. I would like to highlight that it’s sad for me to see that both ladies are confused about their identity, when your both Albanian.

[@prishtinalikjaa]

I feel sorry for them as well. How tragic and sad to not know your own roots.

[@besartmuriqi6871]

My name Besart = Besa happens to be Greek. With respect to Greeks, the word Greek doesn't seem to be anywhere like Zeus or his Bird which bird in Albanian is Zogo, or the white hats greeks don't wear, which if you take Bradylis name means (White hat) Brady add a P to Plis, the white hat has only one name PLIS, or remove the S ( Brad Yil) White Star. We say God ZOT or refer to god ZOTI; if you take 2 Z's, you get the old Illyrian. The ancient greek Albanian language is the language everybody spoke before Greek and Latin.

[@jimjim3474]

@@besartmuriqi6871 You are out of luck , my friend Besa is a spanish word , it means 'to pay one's humble respects' So your first name is spanish not albanian .

[@jimjim3474]

@@besartmuriqi6871 btw we know that 'besa' is not a greek word.We think that it is a turkish word We are wrong . It's spanish

[@mamijote8706]

@@besartmuriqi6871 bruh what? Do you even know where the origins of the words besa come from? No? Then go do your research,learn history and then cone back. Besa-Besë🇦🇱

[@01soalb]

Very nice discussion. A open subject not framed only to those two identities . World is getting smaller and minds opened. The politics have to get changed and flexible ..

[@besa3843]

May I also add that, the Albanians in south of Italy that have migrated there over 500years ago. Do not consider themselves as Albanian-Italians. However, they refer themselves as Arbresh which was the national name of the country then. For those that have been born in Greece or moved to Greece are not sure what to consider them. Please refer to the Albanians that have moved to different countries many year ago. It’s disappointing to even question your real identity. You only see this with the Albanians that live in Greece.

[@ichpackemeinekoffer.]

Your right but albanians always lived in south italy even rome was created by an albanian

[@besartmuriqi6871]

@@ichpackemeinekoffer. Rome in Albanian means ROUND

[@forza8719]

Well said. Like I said in my comment, Albanian and Greek history is the cause. Albanians were gifted those lands in Italy and the two country’s always shared solid relations. Whereas Greeks and Albanians not so much. Sad because Greece is suppose to be the father of democracy.

[@liriouri]

U are completely wrong… Albanians in south Italy do consider themselves Albanians but not shqiptars… arbereshe in latin means albanian and not shqiptar.. the new term shqiptar came later 1900

[@ichpackemeinekoffer.]

@@liriouri you right

[@JohnGrig]

Greece and Albania is time to make one country.. We have the same DNA!!!

[@mamijote8706]

Sadly this will never happen

[@pranktv3297]

If we are going to be one country… what language the people have to speak?

[@mamijote8706]

@@pranktv3297 both xd

[@Arber-4673]

Yeah that woul give us a lot of respect. Also a new flag…that would be a dream I think there are many nationalist who don’t wanna accept this

[@Arber-4673]

@@pranktv3297 both bro real Albanians where in this time non Muslims. I am ethnic Albanian Muslim from Gostivar manastir mountains(Macedonia), but I would accept other religion just to reunited our country together…I mean there was 600 years Ottoman Muslim Empire

[@lekjaku7378]

Dimitris Papanicolaou! You are marvelous!

[@tomasrazelo3271]

Awesome discussion guys.

[@tomasrazelo3271]

As far as the US goes they have experienced lots of racism in their history and even today so two things have occurred. People are less racist and quieter about it as well as Bing used to multiple cultures regardless if they are or aren’t racist. And there are places such as Chicago where the areas in which people live are pretty segregated. Do you have sections of African-Americans and there’s like A middle-class African-American area there’s also a poor African-American area as well as Latino and white and then you can see another big population such as the Polish community which is close to 2 million although they are scattered they have their sections as well. There’s an area or more (Bulgarian)‘s live condition area where Mark Greeks live as well as Indians, Assyrians and the list goes on. I would say that the US can carry it south well and conduct itself well in public among other groups even if there’s a sort of issue. And in the early years every new group that came to the United States was treated horribly with extreme amounts of violence. Every group hated Jews as some would Collett to be here. The last two groups to experience racism and discrimination were the Arabs and the Asian Americans. One was because of 9/11 and the other was because of Covid but neither one of those was really long lasting especially when you compare to the early years. I believe Germany also experienced more migration than Greece in therefor Germany has experience and is able to either appear less racist or has had time to work on it and therefore people have become less racist. I think this was mostly new for Greece so at first it will handle things very poorly. I see a much brighter future at this point. I know there’s still a lot of work to be conducted but I think the start has been made.

[@rowenai7211]

By bringing an examples of US and Germany , you’re leaving behind the most valuable and simple fact , Albaniens and Greeks do share way more common things, such as many cultural , historical and even the DNA. So, it’s sad that we two nations with so much similarities , yet so much discrimination and divisions. Both our nations were part of great empires, and we talk and share proudly about our past, however we neglect to comprehend the past won’t bring the future, ….our actions of what we're doing now, are what really matters. And also having constantly in mind how valuable they were in the past , and how much they have given to the world , this thought have blocked the minds of so many people. While the world continues to move forward , many of us especially Greeks are living with the past. The US is a new nation, but has managed to progress. They are liberating themselves from brainwashing propagandas and by embracing the fact that all people should have the same equal rights and they can coexist with one another in harmony. Germany who did reflect like tyranny not long ago (during WWII) also did create a more peaceful society with less discrimination. >> Why are Greeks so afraid? Could there be a third party propaganda that keeps this division between us? What are they afraid of? I believe that a third party influences has brought up a chauvinist Nationalism which reflects on the Greeks and even at Albanians . My advice to our folks:- People should reflect less more like a Don Quixote and display more love for one another. And also, don't judge a nation based on one individual crime. Happy New Year and take care.

[@tomasrazelo3271]

Of course Greeks and Albanians have more things in common but the example of America was to show this natural part of human nature. Fear of a different group. When a group fresh from another place comes to your area you could have two outcomes. Fear so fighting, discrimination and distancing or love which is accepting and bonding. We are leaving out one thing. Both Greeks and Albanians had lots of positive relations but also some negative. The negative had become a tool. During Ottoman times Greek National awakening happened first and therefore established a modern state. While doing so, politicians had their own views compared to the general public. Boarder concerns and threats of invasion, irredentism, etc… Add the battle between those mercenaries on the Ottoman side and those on the Greek side and now we have division. We must remember that we almost had a Greco-Albanian federation. Ali Pasha had a Greco-Albanian unofficial state and then the Greeks and Albanians of Greece reached out to the Albanians outside of Greece but the idea didn’t work out. The official state now was Greek only and with only green national awareness most Albanians at that time were ok with that. But that isn’t the issue. The issue is the fighting between those Greeks and Albanians who were on the side of the Filiki Eteria and the Greeks and mostly Albanians on the Ottoman side. That’s where I think we started having issues. It wasn’t even the majority. When some people on the Greek side fought with those on the Ottomans side they were very bitter. To eat with your own people created deep anger and negative views and perceptions were created from those days. This distanced the Albanians and Greeks over time as they both now had their own modern states. Regardless of how many Greeks and Albanians lived within the other country. So humans focus on the negative more than the positive (it’s a natural survival instinct to detect danger) and with the ideas of the past fear was front and center. As we see with time this fear subsided and a new era begins. I am convinced times are changing. But we must know the truth of how all this started so here say doesn’t take over. Regarding the past, I think, a lot of focusing on the past happened, because at that time, all sides try to claim who is the more ancient so that they had a right to some land, and we seem to have gotten stuck with that mentality. It’s not only that, but in those days it had to do with Europe and Russia as well. Since the fall of Constantinople to the Ottomans, the Greeks, who fled did manage to get pretty good positions in other areas, always asked for assistance to free their lands. Those with an education, a new history saw how Europe was infatuated with Greek classical history. The marketing, I guess you can call. It was ancient history, and some of the Greeks, who were not educated, saw that if they focused on the classical aspects, they would gain more support from the Europeans. Our culture was mixed from ancient times to Roman times to Ottoman times, and therefore nothing from the ancient world completely existed within the modern culture. The structure and the way the world was might have reflected the ancients more than the actual Greeks and Albanians. Although there was nothing wrong with them, trying to live up to their ancestors, what should’ve happened was to have a little bit of water ancestors had left but also live in the here and now. I think the old perceptions have not left the Greek society and they’re still hanging onto the glorious pass, so that no other claims can ever come to become a problem. However, if you speak to many Greeks today, they will all tell you that the past is great, but it’s all about what we’re doing now. I believe they all do want to move forward, but everyone has grown up within the culture which focuses on the ancients alone. I think that the best thing is to focus on the young generation, and install a new perception. The focus should be that the old enemies are gone and our neighbors are still our neighbors and they always have been and they always will be. So now it’s time to put our guard down and not worry about the fence and start thinking about friendship and progress.

[@petrospetromixos6962]

@@rowenai7211 Haha i like how you pretent to be be friendly and neutral but its the Greeks fault, Albanians are claiming whole balkans and half Europe pal they are deep into extreme nationalism , i bet you dont even know Greeks were send to consentration camps in communist Albania for almost a century

[@nilssonharrison]

This is my personal experience. Greeks are Chauvinistic? Ok. How could they not someone might argue. I've had a number of Albanians try to convince me that their language is the oldest, everything Greek was Pelagian or Illyrian. The Greeks gods are Albanian.... One of the 2 people has a huge inferiority complex.

[@randbeagleelcj9826]

Albanian tribes have always been there the ancient Greeks were Albanian they spoke the Albanian tongue.and most of modern greeks today have no connection with Albanians or ancientgreeks. Wars have been always among Albanian tribes always were fighting each other. This caused by Albanian Heads,Kings of the time for power and leaderships, Albanians still are like these even today evryone wants power

[@gentigenti7752]

The Albanians who reside in Greece and who are citizens of the Greek state are divided into two "groups": those who are called by the Greeks "arvaniti" and those who are called, also by the Greeks, "allvanos" or "alvanos" (in their own spoken language shqipëtarë). The Greek institutions have deliberately divided the two groups in order to demonstrate in every way, even by falsifying history, that they are not ethnically connected with each other.In Greece they still live in the Middle Ages, they are still in a war of religion for what minorities do not know, they do not give them any rights. Greece is a member of the European Community but every day it tramples on people's rights. It looks more like an Afghanistan and not. European state.Albanians are easy to adapt to any form of life because they are Pelasgians and their language proves it.

[@xenofonkarykis8417]

Greeks never had a problem with arvanites, we even had an arvanite prime minister. Rather arvanites chose to distance themselves from Albania and they'd be the first to tell you and take serious offence if you even suggested they're not Greek in any way. There's a reason for all this and it goes back to the Greek revolution against the Ottoman empire. The primary occupation for ethnic Albanians during the Ottoman reign of what is today Greece and Albania, was war. They were either recruited in the regular ottoman army typically as janissaries. Greece was mostly garrisoned by Albanian raised Ottoman troops and of course needless to say regular Ottoman troops could only be muslims. Over the centuries of Ottoman occupation, besides Turkish, Greeks also picked up Albanian and Albanians Greek; Both by necessity I guess, Albanian troops being a minority in a Greek speaking land and on the other hand Greeks in order to interact with the garrisons. It would normally be hard to say which was which after 4 centuries of occupation (not counting previous admixtures of the two) but, one important cultural rift between Albanians and Arvanites remained. Arvanites were Christians. Albanians were muslims. I guess their perception about their origins made sense in a way since it is extremely unlikely that a muslim would decide to pick up Christianity during Ottoman occupation, while the opposite was quite common (christians converting to islam), since non muslims were treated as second rate people with reduced rights, so being a christian then came at some great cost. I guess in their eyes Christians were Greeks who preserved their identity, the rest were alien to the land. During the Greek revolution arvanites behaved like ultra Greeks and were among the most ferocious fighters against the Ottomans, and on the other hand the Ottoman armies they fought against were almost entirely Albanians, either Albanians that were Ottoman regulars or Albanian mercenaries that were enlisted by the Ottomans to kill the revolution... After all that it makes sense that , both the arvanites wanted to have nothing to do with Albanians and on the other hand Greeks considering them their own.

[@xenofonkarykis8417]

As for the rest of the rhetoric about Afghanistan and Pelasgians they're nationalistic remnants and irredentist claims of the Enver Hoxha era, that you'd be best served to put behind you along side the rest of the stuff that Hoxha told you, like that Albania sent the first rocket into space and invented television. Like I said Greece had even had arvanites as president, Pavlos Kountouriotis and 2 arvanite Prime Ministers Antonios Kriezis and Alexandros Diomidis, as opposed to Albania which had been trying to forcibly assimilate the Greeks in Albania since its creation see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autonomous_Republic_of_Northern_Epirus not to mention joining fascist Italy invading Greece in 1940. Leave Hoxha and irredentist nonsense behind you and move forward if you want my advice.

[@gentigenti7752]

@@xenofonkarykis8417 I don't want your advice and I don't care. What you say is political propaganda you were taught in school not to tell you the truth.We know that the Greek term not existed before the arrival of Otto of Bavaria.We know that the area is called Rumelia and the citizens Romaio.The truth is that you don't know who you really are but you continue to be what others have tell you to be ( Victor Hugo,Delacroix,Winckelmann)

[@RovexHD]

Hehe, you took the words straight out of my mouth ! In all fairness, i read the Council of Europe report for Greece in 2019. Hellenic police stations are dens of torture, Ill-treatment is the norm, investigations “dismissed” by prosecutors and investigative judges. Very third world, indeed !

[@SaintSkanderbegus]

​@Xenofon Karykis dude you forgot that there's Albanian Orthodox and Catholic right? Your entire theory falls flat

[@romiromi1343]

Albanians still say they are Greek even in america

[@uneti463]

no we dont, i would rather kill myself than call myself greek!

[@Perparim-gp1ef]

Faky is cherch pushtis

[@forza8719]

My family moved to the United States when I was 3 years old, and I consider myself fully American. I don’t believe there is anything wrong with that. I was raised in America, and identify with American culture much more than any other culture. It’s just who I am as a person. As for Albanians in Greece, I believe this stigma comes from Albanian and Greek turmoil, and past relations. Albanian’s in Greece experienced prejudice, and were forced to convert to get by. And Albanians in Albania resent these converted Greek-Albanians for this reason. If an Albanian migrates anyyywhere else nobody cares haha Albanian and Greek tension is your answer.

[@armandemsha1976]

Albanians and Greeks most live in peace with each other. Both ethnicities are old very old Are there assimilation between too groups of course Both groups are proud of their past and their identity. But still Albanians assimilate easily then Greeks or Turks or Serbs. We have to respect each other Albanians are Iliryans Greeks are Hellenic Greeks have their store Albanians have theirs as well. If the Arvanites see them selfs as Greek so be it. We have about 3 million Albanians in Turkey but today they are Turkish they don’t speak Albanian they see their self as Turkish so be it. You are what you believe in Maybe in the past we and Greeks had same ancestors but today we have nothing in common not even the language or facial features. Albanians are Albanians and Greeks are Greeks. I see some comments of a union state between Greece and Albania. It will never happen. Before will be e union with Italy linguistically we are closer with Latin language.

[@petrospetromixos6962]

ancient Albania is in Caucasus

[@armandemsha1976]

@@petrospetromixos6962 I would rather say Lydia

[@DF35689]

Greece is a Roman word given by Romans to people who shared Hellenic way of life/ culture. Athenians and Spartans were different- they had different cultures and traditions, however the Roman word created a union of these different ways of life; with this union came along recognition by west as now west could say- democracy came from Greece (bigger territory), not from Athens. When democracy was first a thing in Athens, word Greece did not exist, but for the credibility of it it has been assigned to Greece. At the same time discrediting Epirus, Macedonia and Illyria for the great cultures that they had. Any discoveries made in those regions will be called Greek, wrongly claiming/ suggesting that Greeks influenced others and not considering that Greek did not exist. The reason why people don't feel like they belong somewhere is for two reasons: 1) bullying by west and saying that other countries "are less"; 2) our parents and grandparents not embracing their heritage and not passing on their culture to us, further discrediting their upbringing and confirming what west are saying. for the record: I am not from Albania or anywhere near there.

[@nmesterritshqip1621]

Very precise in what you write. History handled at highly politically influenced levels has brought about this distorted reality.

[@elladitsaful]

They were always the same people and spoke the same language, they just had their own laws and dialects like any other country. They are all the children of the Ancient Greeks as the Italians of today are the children of the Romans

[@through-faith-alone]

@@elladitsafulboth greeks and them had a common ancestor meaning they were all one and everyone of you in this thread is brainwashed

[@wardafournello]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/l4KtY6emmL-Ebrc

[@AthrihosPithekos]

​​@@nmesterritshqip1621 Wrong. Illyrians were different from Epirotans and Macedonians according to all ancient sources and due to their (for the most part) gibberish names.

[@thisisALBU]

Les Arvanites sont ceux qui ont défendu la "Grèce" durant toutes les batailles.. Ou étaient les grecs quand les turcs sont venu ? les albanais y étaient et son jusqu'en Péloponnèse... Ces gens les Arvantites parlent un ancien dialecte albanais, les albanais le comprennent encore aujourd'hui. Aucun indice historique, archéologique ou anthropologique n'apporte la preuve de l'existence de la Grèce avant le VIIIe siècle avant JC. Le pays, à cette époque, était occupé par les Pélasges autochtones, improprement appelés Mycéniens, soumis par les envahisseurs hellènes.

[@thisisALBU]

youtube supprime une partie importante l'histoire est manipulée comme B..I..G PH..ARMA MAN..IPULE .... LINDUSTR//IE PHARMACO..TIQUOS..

[@xenofonkarykis8417]

Your comment is disingenuous. For a start Mycenians spoke Greek. For a start Linear B and dating back at least to 1400 BC and it was only deciphered when the scripts were assigned to phonetic Greek words. That's why we know it's Greek. That is not to say Greeks were not there before, but this is the hard evidence of written Greek language by Myceneans confirmed beyond any doubt at least as far back as 1400 BC. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_B#:~:text=Linear%20B%20consists%20of%20around,signs%20in%20writing%20a%20sentence. Who knows how far back beyond 1400 BC the Greek language was spoken, it's anyone's guess. As for Spartans and Athenians and the rest of the Greek city states well , they would tell you that there were two kinds of people, Greeks and barbarians. The word “barbarian” originated in ancient Greece, and was initially used to describe all non-Greek-speaking peoples and by the way the earliest attested form of the word “barbarian” is the Mycenaean Greek 𐀞𐀞𐀫, pa-pa-ro, written in Linear B syllabic script. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbarian By comparison the first script confirming such a thing as an albanian language is by a foreign priest that translated the bible into Albanian phonetics using the latin alphabet in 1462 AD. It is truly a miracle how the Albanian language with some 74% of its lexicon being of alien origin, Latin or Slavic predominantly by the way, and also managed to remain perhaps the last living language of today without any written form or alphabet until 1462, of all things -if Albanians were around and not poped up from somewhere else- having managed to do this while surrounded by the most advanced civilisations of antiquity like the Romans and the Greeks for some 3000 years and not even pick up the basic concept of writing. And yet I see you proclaiming Albanian as ancient with much ease, as opposed to, say Greek. Jesus wept

[@thisisALBU]

@@xenofonkarykis8417 je ne peut pas traduire, votre système grec est faux et pourris.... vous n'êtes même pas un vrai peuple ... vous êtes plusieurs peuples ... byzence ne vous mentionne meme pas looool .... le terme grec est un nouveau terme le mot est inexistant.....faux pays pour faux peuple .... a peine en 1820 Athènes était majoritairement albanophone ;) .... je peut vous écrire des heures mais je vais laisser plutôt le temps faire les choses ... sans les albanais la grèce n'existe pas ;) ALBANIAN FLAG 1443 .... un vrai peuple ethnique et autochtones ( meme 1100 +- mais difficile a faire comprendre au corrompus ;) Si les nouveau grec veulent comprendre nous serions déja en paix depuis un moment ;) sinon continuez avec vos sources Wikipédia

[@xenofonkarykis8417]

@@thisisALBU where are your sources? Enver Hoxha? The same guy who told you you sent the first rocket in space and invented television? Educate yourself. Oh and there is such a thing as links in wikipedia, where unline you, the billions of people who actually write stuff there source their information. I understand there are issues with the Albanian identity, by virtue of being nonexistent in the entire human historiography, but it is what it is.

[@ΝίκοςΜπέτσης-ΗΠΑ]

@@xenofonkarykis8417 Albanian has indeed almost 80% of vocabulary in Latin. However there is an underlayer of Ancient Greek which has never been studied. Some modern Albanian linguists and foreign ones identify only 24 words of AG into modern Albanian vocabulary, but as a speaker of both languages on native level, i can tell you the number is much much higher. There are more influences of Medieval Greek, modern Greek that are easier to identify, but AG is more fascinating as certain pronunciations and meanings of AG have been preserved better in Albanian thru speech, than in modern Greek where they are replaced with other words.

[@baustellacode4634]

Eno Agolli, abandon ideology fam.

[@supermavro6072]

“We used to speak Albanian and call ourselves Romans, but then Winckelmann, Goethe, Victor Hugo, Delacroix, they all told us, ‘No, you are Hellenes, direct descendants of Plato and Socrates,’ and that did it. If a small, poor nation has such a burden put on its shoulders, it will never recover (Published 2009)

[@jimjim3474]

Α! Intresting! He spoke 'arvanitika' not 'albanian in his home Because in the neighborhood spoke greek ' He called him roman not 'albanian' as you say I guess because he felt roman not 'albanian' btw Alipashiad From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia The Alipashiad or Alipashias (Greek: Αληπασιάδα or Αληπασιάς) is an early 19th century epic poem written in Greek by the Muslim Albanian Haxhi Shehreti. The work is inspired by and named after Ali Pasha, the Ottoman Albanian ruler of the increasingly independent Pashalik of Yanina, describing, in heroic style, his life and military campaigns. Background "Όλος ο κόσμος γιούρτισε κιόλα τα βιλαέτια Και φέρνουν στον Αλή Πασιά φλωριά με τα σεπέτια Ώρα την ώρα Αλή Πασιάς ακόμη πλειό βαραίνει. Το όνομά του ακούσθηκε στο Ήντε στο Γεμένι, Σεφτά ρηγάτα Φράγγικα ακούσθη το ‘νομά του, Κανένας ως τα σήμερα δεν στάθηκε μπροστά του. Translation: All the world makes festivities, and all the districts: They bring Ali Pasha golden coins in coffers. Hour by hour Ali Pasha weighs more heavy: His name is heard in Hindi and in Yemen. In the Seven Frank Kingdoms his name is heard; And no one on this day had stood before him."[1] The Alipashiad was composed by Haxhi Shehreti, who was a Muslim Albanian and Ali's personal balladeer,[2] and who composed this work in Greek, considering it a more prestigious language in which to praise his master.[3] William Leake says that Shehreti had no Greek education and knew only the colloquial Greek of Albania and its borders. The language of the poem, therefore (according to Leake) represents the local vulgar dialect of the Greek language.[4] Despite the predominance of the Greek language as the language of Orthodox Christian education and culture, sometimes a form of cultural hybridity emerged in a number of 18th and early 19th century Albanian language documents, which were written using the Greek script. This was due to the fact that the Orthodox church, unlike the Catholic one, "was never to be convinced of the utility of writing in the vernacular as a means of converting the masses". Hence Greek script or language was used in various works of Albanian authors, both Christian and Muslim. An example of the latter is the composer of the Alipashiad.[3] The poem provides evidence about a period when Lord Byron, Christopoulos, Ioannis Vilaras, Ioannis Kolettis, Georgios Sakellarios and Athanasios Psalidas were among the scholarly, artistic and cultural elite of Ioannina.[4] Language The poem is written in a modern demotic Greek language and contains some dialectical interference and foreign expressions.[4] The Greek language used was based on the contemporary (vernacular) idioms of Delvine and Ioannina both places where the author lived.[5] Another decisive factor that influenced the language of composition was the scholarly Greek language which was the language used in the court of Ioannina during the time he served Ali Pasha. [6]

[@michaelhadjimichael4778]

I am a greek cypriot who has been living in the uk for many years .I believe that i am different from the english and the greek cypriots and that greek cypriots living in the uk have there own personality. I believe though that my loyalties are more greek cypriot. Saying that i speak English with my siblings. So at the end ofthe day you can be two ethnicities .I believe the arvanites are greek after all the years in greece marrying greeks but obviously they must not forget where they originally came from.I question were the arvanites greeks living in albania or where they original albanian.

[@michaelhadjimichael4778]

By the way the greek cypriots call greek cypriots from the uk charlys from King Charles. And the British call us greklish or greeks

[@michaelhadjimichael4778]

You are what you feel you are .

[@Godssecondcomingissoon]

Albanians almost never married greeks historically,that only happened thousands of years ago and in recent history and many arvanite dna tests can prove they are albanian​@@michaelhadjimichael4778

[@petrospetromixos6962]

Arvanites have always been Greek even albanians have Greek DNA ,Arvanites were from Arvona in Epirus ,Arvanitic is a form created under conditions of occupation

[@Godssecondcomingissoon]

@@petrospetromixos6962 Nope,arvanites are albanian migrants from the 1200-1300s that settled in peleponess,arta and attica.Also your information is wrong,you say that albanians have greek dna but you are unaware of the fact dna tests only track your ancestors location and not their ethnicity accurately

[@Καντηλαναυτης]

Why the Albanians face are so different from the Greeks ? There is no similarity between Albanians and Greeks … if we had same ancestors? Before 10000 years maybe BUT in the end we are all people of the world from the same ancestors

[@SaintSkanderbegus]

Yea sure however Albanians and Greeks are the closest cousins amongst all people

[@michaelhadjimichael4778]

Do greek cypriots have any relationship with albanians

[@Καντηλαναυτης]

@@SaintSkanderbegus not by any chance

[@byoken]

The Arvanite people look similar to us southern Albanians. The rest of the Greeks can be White or brown and they don't look like us.

[@Καντηλαναυτης]

@@byoken but there are not anymore Arvanites at Greece . I am Greek. I never met an Arvanit….. why you want so much to prove that they are Albanians like you ? Why you are so jealous about Greece and its history ?

[@Καντηλαναυτης]

Ελαααα Αλβανα άντε χαρείτε ρε εεε