This and That: 2018 Skate Canada

[@BrentWolgamott]

Timestamps: 1:11 - Mako YAMASHITA (Jonathan's music choice of the weekend) 4:27 - Dave is thinking of going to the Grand Prix Final (note - I've been looking for someone to go with!) 5:00 - Looking ahead to the women's Grand Prix season and Final 7:07 - Elizaveta TUKTAMYSHEVA 15:51 - Evgenia MEDVEDEVA 26:53 - IJS/coding issues on protocols (SitSpin 'V's, Camels, Chereographic Lifts, Choreographic Sequence) 31:21 - Judging Ice Dance, protocols, keypoints, Dave's instructional videos, past keypoints, (IJS dance minutiae) 34:50 - Mariah BELL 36:36 - segue back to MEDEVEDEVA, David Wilson's choreo, Battle of the Carmens 2.0!! (YES to this, Dave!) 38:38 - Mariah BELL, Part 2 40:31 - Starr ANDREWS 45:27 - the Skate America/Skate Canada combo (peaking, pros/cons) 47:02 - Madison HUBBELL/Zachary DONOHUE (going back to back, then discussion of their Free Dance) 54:48 - Tarah KAYNE/Danny O'SHEA (getting a new Short Program; Jonathan is incredulous) :-) 56:32 - Alexa/Chris KNIEREMS news (moving to CA, to Jenny Meno & Todd Sand) 1:00:50 - Piper GILLES/Paul POIRIER 1:02:55 - Kiss & Cry antics/politicking (Carol Lane, Brian Orser, Rafeal Artunian) 1:04:50 - Victoria SINITSINA/Nikita KATSALOPOV 1:05:58 - Shiyue WANG/Xinyu LIU (and other Chinese skaters, possible retirements or why not, etc) 1:07:10 - Carolane SOUCISSE/Shane FIRUS 1:07:22 - Zach DONOHUE's pelvic floor (don't ask!) :-) 1:08:24 - Olivia SMART/Adrian DIAZ (also talk of Marie-France's GADBOIS being 'at capacity') 1:10:18 - Kirsten MOORE TOWERS/Michael MARINARO 1:12:16 - Cheng PENG/Yang JIN 1:14:50 - Vanessa JAMES/'KING' MORGAN CIPRES

[@yukikokawamoto9715]

So helpful! Thank you.

[@justynazokiewska8223]

Thanks a lot!

[@sueecavanau]

Your time stamp post gave me life! Please do it every time. You are my hero

[@yuyu246]

Thank you!

[@TheSkatingLesson]

I would need to ask you way more questions about The Staircase than you like answering as per the articles I have read!

[@thomassutherland7032]

I love how fast y'all are getting these out

[@TheSkatingLesson]

Thomas Sutherland I love how fast you’re watching it!

[@kellyheafymullen4886]

God, same. So impressed/happy.

[@benbailey159bb]

I found what you said about Medvedeva jumping more with her arms than her legs interesting. I think that's why she has such problems with her Lutz. To get it off the proper edge you really need that spring from the release of the counter rotation then pull the arms in to rotate. So if you try to jump a Lutz primarily with your arms you'll never get that tension and spring and it'll always go off the wrong edge.

[@benbailey159bb]

@Nathaniel Walker I hope you are not implying that what I said is a misconception or bad guess as what I said is accurate. The Lutz is based off a back outside counter turn. It's all about the timing - you need to pick at the moment where the BO edge has come round and you'd rise up to execute the turn. Get the timing right and you get a great back outside edge and huge height from the release of the counter tension. Good examples are Yan Han and Mikhail Kolyada

[@benbailey159bb]

@Nathaniel Walker Like I said im my second comment it's all about the timing and understanding the concept of it being based on a back counter

[@benbailey159bb]

@Nathaniel Walker Clean and consistently not a Lutz lol

[@aracelichely2954]

Nathaniel Walker Just for curiosity how were yuna's arms messy on that jump? How do you see messy arms in a lutz? ^^? because people from this sport (skaters, commentators, etc) always say wonders about her general technique on that jump, so I'm confuse xD

[@sparkl121]

And yes, agreed so much on Medvedeva. Jumps and SS are really hard to fix and will take a long time, as you guys put it so well, and it's pretty impressive to see all the changes she's already made visible.

[@anfaneygladwin6759]

I hope Tuktamyesheva makes a come back. It is kind of up in the air right now for world's placement. Many of the top competitor's are having a down fall, and there are a lot of talented new comers.

[@user-dw9rf3tm8q]

Evgenia’s back problems are affecting her loop. Brian said it not too long ago that she has back problems still. That’s why she has no layback spin and her loop is much harder for her to complete. It’s a shame, it used to be her best jump.

[@minahbraun321]

@malyale to create muscle memory for later in the season. When she is at full strength it will be ready due to her training.

[@PtolemyXVII]

Arianne Петрова do you know if it's a bone issue or ligament or alignment issue? There's new treatment for injuries by injecting the area with peptides and hyaluronic acid to accelerate healing. If it's a bone issue like polina then nutrition becomes more important - esp if there are underlying copper and vit k2 deficiencies. I myself recently had some back issues that resolved after application of comfrey cream + red light or lllt therapy. I hope she recovers quickly!

[@minahbraun321]

@malyale maybe it's a case of the injury is resolved but still inflamed and painful. Back injuries are weird.

[@lc4822]

Scores aside, Piper and Paul were the stars of the Ice Dance event. That free dance is something special.

[@PeiwenTanbassoon821]

L C Also the only team with a successful knee-slide element so far.

[@sopranomegs]

I fully agree. It was STUNNING. Bawled my eyes out. 😭

[@lc4822]

Ive been checking youtube every hour for this. Thank you!

[@TheSkatingLesson]

L C you’re welcome!

[@Frooti.loopz23]

Turn on the bell and you'll get notifications :)

[@animegirlnamedDani]

I honestly think that one of the differences with Jason vs Evgenia at TCS, besides which coach they train with the majority of the time, is the time they have left and their ultimate goal. With Evgenia, she is 18, and going to Orser was a last-ditch-effort to save her career in the THICK pool of Russian ladies, who some have already started inching ahead of her. Evgenia needs to pull ahead FASTER and more drastically because otherwise she will be taken out of the rotation of Russian Ladies. Even if her changes NEED to be more drastic, Orser and Tracy probably know that Evgenia needs to improve and fast if she wants to stay competitive in Russia, because she is going into uncharted territory. With JASON, it is a very different situation. Jason went to Brian because he didn’t make the Olympic team last year, and his ultimate goal is to be back on that team in 2022. He has a much longer time to improve and to drill those new techniques and get better. Of course, he isn’t coming into TCS at as high of a level as Evgenia, but he is trying to learn from TCS at his own pace and trying to apply it to his own style and his own situation. Jason isn’t going to be taken out of the American rotation unless he himself retires. He has the personality and the drive where he will keep qualifying for international competition even if he isn’t on the podium at nationals. Of course the US men’s field isn’t nearly as deep, but both Jason and the coaches KNOW that. I’m a little upset as an observer at how low he is currently being scored, and how harsh it seems for him this season... but as a fan and somebody who will stand behind Jason no matter what, I know that 2018-2019 isn’t his goal. His goal is to STAY for a long time, to get BETTER than he has ever been, and to be one of the top 3 US men in 2022.

[@george39821]

I needed some Jonathan Beyer today 😭💙.

[@TheSkatingLesson]

Jorge Lara we all did!

[@kellywilliams4420]

Can't wait to watch this tomorrow when I'm on the treadmill always informative and insightful and with a great sense of humor thanks again guys

[@TheSkatingLesson]

Kelly Williams

[@kellywilliams4420]

@@TheSkatingLesson I'm sure I will if you have to start Monday this is a wonderful way to do it thanks again

[@TheGymnast71]

Thank you Dave and Jonathon for the skating lesson. I appreciate so much someone else having the same passion I have for skating and gymnastics. My husband is thrilled I can listen to you guys and he doesn't have to watch ice skating with me! I am sorry you have to deal with rude posts!

[@eiskunstlaufen1509]

Paula Dimicello same situation here! I tell my husband that I have to spend time with my boys when the videos come out!

[@TheGymnast71]

Evan Perilstein idk. He says it's boring to watch and would rather watch football! I d k how that is possible 😬

[@TheSkatingLesson]

My family members claim I ruined the sports for them by watching them so much. Haters.

[@TheGymnast71]

TheSkatingLesson lol my sister used to bring me to the Campbell soup ice skating shows cause she said I will give the back story and drama on all the skaters....you can't go without her....lol🤔

[@TheGymnast71]

Evan Perilstein I think he's just passively watched it while I've had it on. He's never known someone to be as into ice skating as me. Ie watches Grand Prix Nationals but he's from Arizona and im from New York idk I think there are ice rinks out west I guess he was never exposed to it😯

[@LaChicaMadrilena]

You guys are fast! I will watch it after the gala! Can’t wait, the drama at Scate Canada was next level!

[@jonathancavallin4920]

Your faces while Jonathan is speaking are priceless😂

[@TheSkatingLesson]

Jonathan Cavallin

[@hgclarke25]

Agreed with the comment that Evegenia needs a new FS...this wont hold up in top ladies

[@hellsbellsmichelle]

I think Vanessa James and Morgan Cipres have been very much under-rated over the past couple of years, and I'm very hopeful that they can fill the void left by Alijona Savchenko and Bruno Massot. Things are looking very positive for Team France in the "Team" disciplines. Vive la France!

[@evelynwashere13]

OMG, the can't get enough of them. And the fact that they were the underdogs and fought their way up??? Totally a story for a made for TV movie!!!! 👍👍👍

[@leahmcconnell3600]

I wouldn't say they were underrated. The field the past couple of years has been very deep (so they ended up not making the GPF last season even after two good events, for example), but they still did quite well overall. Sometimes their results were more up-and-down when they had rough skates. But underrated? Nah.

[@gtestkey]

Tarasova was furious about how Tuktamysheva's 3a was judged. "TAT: Yesterday she jumped 3a that by all new ISU rules had to get +5, because such axel we never have seen, such technically, brilliant, precise and well executed. But I want tell you, there sitting international panel of judges and 2 of them gave -1, can you imagine that?! 2 judges gave 0 and 1 judge gave +1. How to threat them after that, with what words... And what trust can be to them, when such people sit there who don't see anything and don't know anything, you can only make arrangements with them... Yagudin: you mean they don't know, no they do, may be they don't want... TAT: how it's possible... How they destroy someones life, they destroy our results... how it's possible...." Later on "these are simply thieves! In place of Aleksey Mishin I would submit protest! With such marks judges destroy individuality! There is a race for elements, limited freedom - all in order to make them judge right, but they don't because all these years I see the very same faces..." I wish somebody would make subtitles to that vid, she is overexcited and precious as always.

[@justynazokiewska8223]

I love Tat cause we can really feel she loves the sport

[@nenavujicin7882]

i agree with TAT about Liza's 3 Axel during her SP. I was surprised,also !

[@annushka0113]

TAT is a national treasure for a reason!

[@BrigitteLaskowski]

She only filled 3 of the 5 bullets and only deserved +3 GOE on her 3A.

[@gtestkey]

​@@BrigitteLaskowski True, TAT exaggerated here, though I see only 1 bullet missing - no difficult entry.

[@chipperterri]

This and That is my Sunday morning treat with Coffee and Bagels..

[@TheSkatingLesson]

chipperterri have some extra cream cheese for us!

[@rosesavoy9035]

Wow you guys are so fast! As usual an amazing review thank you so much 😘😘😘from 🇵🇹 love you guys❤️ PS: loved Wakaba SP she is so different and out of stereotypical ice princess I wish she could be more consistent but she is one of my favorites. And the music is in Portuguese which I appreciated 💖 very unusual SP 😍

[@TheSkatingLesson]

Rose Savoy you’re welcome!

[@hellsbellsmichelle]

I love Tuktamysheva, I think she's been very much overlooked in the Russian team for such a long time. But I think Mishin is making poor music choices for her. Elizaveta is a "womanly" skater, like Carolina, like Wagner, I think she needs a better theme than an Assassin's Tango. She needs better music, something that will capture our imagination and bring her skating to life.

[@PeiwenTanbassoon821]

Michelle Evans she need Mishin not re-choreographing all her programs...

[@stephenvalentinemusi]

The Tara shade lol.

[@lexismith8325]

Oooh can’t wait to watch! I’ll start after the packers game is over. Thank for getting these out so fast!!!

[@Eeyora1]

I love Liza and her bluntness. Both she and Zhenya have an amazing determination!

[@TheSkatingLesson]

They are tough like pair girls!

[@foreveryeung52]

Oh I loved Mariah's free! The free felt really light, almost ethereal. Up until that last jump, I was immersed in it.

[@MissZuzaRd]

Omg guys have you seen Evgenia gala performance?? She had such a great flow, it was all super smooth, and her arms and legs looked great (i feel evgenia used to do this very „funny” kinda awkward looking positions with her legs and arms and now they are gone???). I think in this program you can see her progress, especially in a quality of her skating

[@MissZuzaRd]

And also i think she choreographed it herself ??!?

[@PtolemyXVII]

MissZuzaRd well then she is a better choreographer than David Wilson 😂

[@justynazokiewska8223]

My moment of the week was 4 sure Vanessa and Morgan FS. It was so good that I was like in a bubble of - omg that was epic next 10 minutes after.

[@akinorijohnnakaema9967]

Jonathan did point out what I've been feeling. The pre rotation outrage is a fan made thing rather than it coming from people in the skating world, such as skaters/ coaches/ judges. It seems similar to why the skating world doesn't focus too much on two footed take offs on all the salchows and the loops. It can be an issue but seems like this topic has been blown way out of proportion by some fans.

[@animegirlnamedDani]

Thanks for this great video!!! I totally agree with y’all on how they definitely helped Elizaveta with her PCS scores (not in a bad way! Just a surprising way since she is not the most “traditional skater”), and I definitely think she needs some slightly different music that could really make her SHINE. I personally would LOVE her to skate to the cover of “Habañera” by Kate Nash, which takes the Carmen melody and overlays some sass and a whole lot of rhythm that could REALLY highlight her sass. But what shocked ME was how they BURIED Wakaba. Wakaba killed it this weekend and was ENTIRELY different from ACI. I’m so glad y’all talked about Evgenia in the way that you did. She SHOULD be allowed to be human, and she is learning and changing with Brian. She is a fighter and she is overcoming so much, and it sucks with how much she is being scrutinized. But in a year or two, maybe even at the end of the season, she will be an entirely different skater, and she will really PROVE that she can have a lasting career and stay on top of this sport.

[@rachelwayne4240]

They also showed Starr Andrews' viral YT video in Canada :P Love Morgan and Vanessa. Awesome material and he is such a solid base!

[@Frooti.loopz23]

Came as soon as I got the notification

[@george39821]

Kayla Gaines I always see you leaving a comment on skating videos 💕, specially TSL and Koola’s

[@nvadqs]

Me too!

[@Frooti.loopz23]

@@george39821 Lol hey how's it going 😂😂

[@bunnynorway]

So disappointed Alexa and Chris left Aliona. They should have given it more time with her, at least until end of next season.

[@leahmcconnell3600]

I agree that it definitely needed a couple years, especially since they were trying a lot of new things. They seemed to have a good relationship with Aljona and she was giving them a lot of what they needed. But it's unclear if Aljona's coaching style was more collaborative or more "do as I say or else". Alexa and Chris need a strict coach, but they're also adults who need a say in things, and who knows if that was the case. They said in the TV interview they hoped to work with Aljona again. The abruptness of the split right before the GP makes me believe that they loved working with her, but that something about the preparation/training style/workload as competition approached was bothering them. From afar, it looked like they were training most nights, rarely taking a day off, and it was said that Aljona wanted them to train harder before the GP, whereas other coaches might say you should taper off your training a bit right before the GP. No matter how amazing of a coach Aljona may be, you also have to make sure you don't wear your students out. This is just complete speculation based on the timing of the split. A&C have had so many positive things to say about Aljona, I think if there had been any possible way to make it work, they would have stayed, especially since they only had until Dec with her before she went on a tour.

[@bunnynorway]

@@leahmcconnell3600 Aliona is new to coaching so it takes time to learn on her side too. Just sad because I liked the direction she was taking them. I hope they do work with her in the future.

[@spamisyuckie]

I am cooking and started jumping up and down when you talked about a new battle of the Carmens. I think it is genius! And the biggest middle finger to Eteri!

[@TheSkatingLesson]

spamisyuckie it would spice things up!

[@suzannefraser4966]

You guys are amazing! So efficient

[@TheSkatingLesson]

suzanne fraser

[@PeiwenTanbassoon821]

Please tell us what you think of Tuktamysheva's toxic exhibition!

[@TheSkatingLesson]

#Bless Love it!

[@PeiwenTanbassoon821]

TheSkatingLesson I can’t even remember the rest of the gala anymore lol

[@12oq]

oh come on :) you have a good taste but this performance was like..NO

[@amberelibrennan]

I think Vanessa & Morgan got the deduction (time violation) because he fist pumped at the end. I don’t think it’s cause they were gliding across the ice, I think it’s cause he didn’t hold the ending pose. Idk I’m not sure, but it was really impressive seeing them live & what their presence brings to the atmosphere ☺️🙌🏼

[@amberelibrennan]

Ya I know it’s just a silly deduction, but I do wish it would specify on the score sheets... anyway lol but yes Vanessa & Morgan are stunning and they’re both really attractive. In the warm up my eyes went directly to them because of the way they carry themselves.

[@Citruscider34]

I love my weekly schedule now. Grand prix event on the weekend. Then TSL recap. Then TSL Olympics deep dive.

[@TheSkatingLesson]

citruscider and interviews!

[@TheSkatingLesson]

citruscider I am working on the components next. I want to do the ice dance once too, but it will take even more time because it is so technical.

[@Citruscider34]

TheSkatingLesson yes ice dance please! Thanks so much

[@TheSkatingLesson]

citruscider yes, I have quite the to do list!

[@lc4822]

Evgenia's short program dress was terrible, but more importantly her nerves were so apparent that they sucked the fun out of the program and it fell very flat for me.

[@dinchik19]

L C , I thought the dress at autumn classic was awful and was happy to hear she will be changing it. So was quite shocked to see this dress which is when worse. She used to have wonderful dresses with Eteri and I think her new coaching team should really invest in getting a better designer for her.

[@lc4822]

Still wasnt as bad as Jason's bowling shirt.

[@PeiwenTanbassoon821]

Dinara Simon the dress at autumn classic needs some improvements but still way more flattering than this one.

[@tb4522]

I think we saw the dtess Brian wanted at Autumn Classic, because we were back to her "style" this time.

[@PeiwenTanbassoon821]

​@@tb4522 Any of her old dresses is way better than this one too. This dress is just pure ugly and I hope she burns it.

[@Patrick-vj1qu]

I agree that a loop done on the second half of a combo is so much harder and something needs to be done to address that:)

[@nvadqs]

Woww, Unbelievable fast! You are outbesting yourselves!

[@TheSkatingLesson]

DuniaR

[@stephenvalentinemusi]

I love how I will be watching this and then go into the NBC highlights coverage instead of getting live skating....on my TV....Friday and Saturday. THANKS NBC

[@TheSkatingLesson]

Stephen Valentine

[@tb4522]

Ugh. Drives me crazy. And I'm not paying for their stupid channel. Things come up on KZbin sodiet fast those days. Just saying.

[@ManuelPabloArnao]

"The rink wasn't big enough for your big skating, Piper" HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[@larhumba4233]

Their Coach, Carol Lane, meant that as a joke! Honestly, to accuse her of politicking in the K&C is absurd. She loves P2, as she calls them, like family and was genuinely upset for them in the RD. Did you see her tears in the FD?

[@ManuelPabloArnao]

La Rhumba Relax. They’re just being playful and fun

[@sparkl121]

You guys are the real MVPs.

[@TheSkatingLesson]

sparkl121

[@TheAnnmjensen]

Was living for Jonathan’s take on the “Opera” here.

[@keelyfallis5927]

This season is something that's for sure.

[@TheSkatingLesson]

It's very exciting and interesting thus far!

[@lc4822]

When Starr was skating my cat jumped up to try and catch her on the tv screen and I thought "must be the jungle music" LOL Random thought, in a year or two I think she should skate to Evgenia's short program music, she would look very charming.

[@BrentWolgamott]

BTW, something new to Ice Dance this year (among a few things) is the "Character Step Sequence". It just has Level 1 only, and set GOE values (not percentages). I think the best one is Sinitsina/Katsalopov's, toward the end, when the music changes to a bit more rock, Nikita especially just SKATES THE HELL out of that section, and you can really appreciate this new addition! I love the Character Step Sequence.

[@ColonelGreen]

The character step is definitely a great new element. Fear and Gibson's opening their disco FD is probably my favourite that we've seen so far.

[@nvadqs]

Yes! Key-point by key-point in the pattern would be real great! Thanks!

[@TheSkatingLesson]

DuniaR will do!

[@BrentWolgamott]

YES YES. I want to understand it but I just cannot. It eludes me.

[@Citruscider34]

i don't understand the hype over starr andrews.

[@aflautist]

I DIED AT THE COMMENT ABOUT KISSING YOU 💀(but yes it does)

[@TheSkatingLesson]

It really does!

[@stpark22]

For the 1st time, I actually love Evgenia's dress for her long program.

[@koalapayslater]

There is a deduction for a long set up (-2,-3) and even tho its rare element Elizaveta was preparing throughout the half of the rink so it applies. Imo I would give her neutral because of bullets 1&3 from the rulebook but she doesn't have a good take off position (her hands and upper body are very limp) so applying the long set up rule it's neutral GOE for me .

[@koalapayslater]

@@evanperilstein5308 I just applied the bullets and rules 🤷 If I had to judge just by my preference I would also give it +1,+2 (although pliz Liza shorten the set up).

[@koalapayslater]

@@evanperilstein5308 True, although I compared it to Rika's 3A set up which is way shorter nowadays.

[@koalapayslater]

@@evanperilstein5308 Yup, agree

[@jackmason110]

I think med got her first V because her basic sit wasn't completely parallel to the ice and then got her second V because she barely just missed 2 revs on her basic camel

[@BrigitteLaskowski]

Freelegs must be 90° or lower on sits. In a combo if 90° or lower with the freeleg is not attained the the combo gets the V for variation. As far as the Camel position getting a V in combination spins, they need a minimum of 3 revolutions in a basic position before changing basic positions or doing a variation in a combo spin.

[@BrigitteLaskowski]

Hey you talked about Keegan Messing! Keegan elected not to do the 4Lz because it didn't go well in the warm up.

[@mcgillicutty9256]

I admire the Japanese skating skills. Mako and Satoko should be rewarded for their flow and effortlessness. Mako jumps are not muscled like the others. I foresee her being a top skater. Sadly, the judges do not differentiate the pcs appropriately so I do not see Satoko making it to the top of podium-which she should be based on pure skating and artistry.

[@TheSkatingLesson]

Gorgeous, gorgeous skating skills.

[@sameoldsteph]

'What's your passport number?' - dying! Love. (My favorite color is blue, I have 2 dogs, and I love karate! Same as Keanu!)

[@TheSkatingLesson]

My favorite color is red!

[@kasvinimuniandy4178]

hehehehe.. Everybody get your figure-skating fan-base asses to 37:20. Dave, that's gonna be your iconic sass moment for me for the rest of the week! hahahah...

[@kennydreadfuls861]

Kasvini Muniandy I was dying.

[@AgniMiss]

Medvedeva is still lost, she blamed all the coatching team for not giving her the gold medal, she wanted to demonstrate how genius she is, but she didn't find herself yet.

[@kateholcomb3823]

Evgenia’s freeskate makes me want to fall asleep.

[@TheSkatingLesson]

She needs Carmen!

[@brilliantjewel]

Oof I need to catch up with these, but I have seen most of the competitions Edit: OMG THE MUSIC EDITS THIS SEASON MAKE ME LAUGH SO HARD LOL The technical analysts have been much stricter with spin and step sequence levels, that is what I have noticed I think both Evgenia Medvedeva and Jason Brown are working for the long run, so things will hopefully steadily improve and become cleaner over time, the only thing “wrong” with Jason is his jump consistency, I think they are not working in his spins or step sequences as much, and therefore not making as much changes to them because they are already very good, but jump technique is hard to change so it doesn’t’ look like he is changing much during competition because he is basically only changing jump technique, if that makes sense I love Mako Yamashita! Her programs are interesting this year lol, but her edges and her jumps are amazing I am happy that Elizaveta Tuktamysheva won! Jun Hwan Cha’s program music makes me laugh so hard lol, but I like him a lot, his Romeo and Juliet and Alena Kostornaia’s Romeo and Juliet cuts with the voiceovers, their programs sound similar lol Also if anyone is going to win for the Carmen performance this year, it is going to be Mikhail Kolyada lol

[@ColonelGreen]

There were several people who did both Skate America and Skate Canada -- Hubbell and Donohue being the obvious ones, but there were several people who had a poor Skate America and then did much (or incrementally) better here. I was especially relieved for Evelyn Walsh and Trennt Michaud, who made their senior pairs debut at SA and finished dead last after a horrendous string of jump errors. After that, and given that there was zero turnaround time, I was really worried, but lo and behold, Evelyn's jump landings reappeared. She fell on all the SBS and all the throws at SA, but at SCI she got five of the six, which is quite respectable.

[@hellsbellsmichelle]

Dave - Carmen - NO. Just No. But I dare Evgenia's team to consider "Je ne regret rein" with Edith Piaf singing it.

[@TheSkatingLesson]

Michelle Evans it was mostly tongue in cheek!

[@tb4522]

Oh, yes! Edith! Lol.

[@hellsbellsmichelle]

@@TheSkatingLesson OMG - I'm humbled to be acknowledged. But yes, I think she needs some sass. And I don't mean Ashley sass, I mean Alijona sass.

[@hellsbellsmichelle]

@mish098aimer it needs to come back. Not in a "burning bridges" way, but in a "I'm moving forward with my life, my career and my world" way.

[@jackmason110]

When are you changing the opening credits?

[@TheSkatingLesson]

Jack Mason soon. I have been pumping out other videos. They felt more important, but I will be updating the credits.

[@patriciaann7330]

TheSkatingLesson you need to wait until you can add a new Papadakis Cizeron clip

[@lilibetp]

More importantly than the video, are you planning new music?

[@TheSkatingLesson]

Elizabeth Phillips I am planning on updating the credits with the same theme, as it what is done on The Young and The Restless when new characters emerge and join the cast.

[@lilibetp]

TheSkatingLesson okay. I'll just keep trying to forward past it, then...

[@nataliemarvos4623]

I loved what Aliona was doing for Alexa and Chris but she was also a new coach so things needed some time for everyone. Hopefully they can work with her again in the future. Interesting that a K/K and K/O coaching swap was a possibility, it’s been a wild season. You’ve had some good things to say about Jenni and Todd in the past I recall correctly. The Knierims already have programs so it’s not like you have to worry about the schmaltz or whatever you call it.

[@leahmcconnell3600]

The coaching options for a pair of Alexa & Chris's caliber are so few. If they need to change coaches again after this season, that's fine, but right now it's important for them to get into a good, productive training environment. Being alone in Illinois was going to be an issue even if they had stayed with Aljona because of her tour dates, which they didn't seem to realize. I didn't see any signs that Dalilah wasn't given them full attention last season. She has always juggled many pairs at once. And I could tell she was upset by them leaving. It sort of felt like she took on Tarah & Danny to kinda help fill the void. I would hope that she would take K/K back if they asked, but it has gotten even more crowded there (by the way I agree that K/O's program wasn't the problem). I recall Alexa & Chris working with Raf for a couple days a few years ago and Alexa was raving about him, so it might be beneficial for them to work with him if he has time. They need some confidence building and little tweaks, no major technical revamping right now. I agree it's probably not fair to judge Meno & Sand when they haven't had this type of high level team to work with before. And at least they have been to Worlds before with Marley & Brubaker. If A&C approached Peterson and not Zimmerman, they might have concerns about training with a top team in J/C that is from another country and has a different competition schedule (D/F at least have the same GPs as J/C). I think it's possible to give more than one pair proper attention at a time, and I think it would be great if they tried working with Zimmerman eventually. I will keep an open mind with the Meno & Sand choice. I don't know much about them as coaches, and I want A&C to be able to get the training they need. They made good improvements under Aljona that should carry over throughout the season regardless of who coaches them.

[@mackoCF445]

Who knows who Dave’s sources are. It’s possible Alexa and Chris reached out to Zimmerman as well but we don’t have a secret source to tell us.

[@TheAnnmjensen]

Kissing you is not an 8. Unless the scale goes to 1000.

[@TheSkatingLesson]

Touche

[@kristinann5199]

I know I'm super slow at catching up on your videos, but I just gotta say I love y'all so much! I think we should have a drinking game with Andrea Joyce and whenever she asks a skater "how would you describe your emotions?" lol! Thanks for the awesome content!

[@ozgul4372]

I loved jeneric music. Absolutely ı remember my child

[@ashleynoelle1632]

I've never seen evgenia score below 200

[@icedmocha5264]

She's kind of over scored in some competitions

[@BlueNight349]

+2 on the triple axel from me

[@TheSkatingLesson]

Quite fair!

[@lc4822]

I want to like Tuktemysheva but I find her social media persona a little off putting. The triple axel was a + 2 for me because like you said it is a big deal that shes doing it at all.

[@TheSkatingLesson]

L C I think a +2 is very fair.

[@annushka0113]

I do admire her occasional “I am the Empress” swagger, but, I agree. She is trying too much too hard for the most part.

[@aleksandraszejnoga]

L C Actually she does that party because she is treated like sh*t by Russian Fed. Good ahe shows that she is not someone you can treat badly and replies to all of it.

[@tb4522]

I love her in Twitter!

[@chelsear.5386]

@@Lorenzferus not that it should matter, but I think she is absolutely stunning, and part of why she stands out is because she is so striking and unique

[@vlaaaaaada]

Oh, thank you so much for this review. I really started thinking that maybe it is not worth it to ruin all and to start to learn everything from the basics for Evgenia. They should only invest in those improvements that ARE REAL to change, to fix for the next Olympics. It is only worth for not to loose the competitive form and authority in the judges faces... because look how tough to get back for Tuktamisheva with all her fantastic jumps... I know they are different skaters with Evgenia but... the outcome can be the same... will Evgenia have enough time and capability to improve so much technique and come back and win? Maybe it's rather utopia and better to focus on certain things than everything or almost everything. Sorry if i'm wrong or do not understand all correctly, i'm not a professional

[@TheSkatingLesson]

I think she has enough time. If she didn't make these changes, her career would be even worse off. We see some small improvements already and she looks better in practice. I think it will be a rocky season --by next season, she will likely look much better if she stays on this path and just accepts the bitterness.

[@kemrys9957]

I thought Medvedeva’s CCoSp3V was due to her not getting 3 revolutions in her camel position after her change of foot?

[@TheSkatingLesson]

K Emrys you are likely correct. I think they should notate it in the protocol. Her sit spin needed to be lower, which was the cause of her other V.

[@dinchik19]

Guys, I am happy that you are honest about Evgenia’s programs. Neither SP nor LP suit her. It is so frustrating to see that one of the top skaters in the world is turning into mediocre one.

[@minahbraun321]

She's better in practice, skates to the notes. She needs time.

[@user-yj6wo8bf9m]

Dinara, I agree with you, both these programs don't work for Zenia, she needs smth different. And, yes, hard to witness one of the most gorgeous skaters sliding into mediocrity.

[@kurooscoffee]

When you called it "triple flip" you weren't far off tbh

[@TheSkatingLesson]

ice coffee shade!

[@14Luuka]

About Hubbell and Donohue, they talked about the programs before skate america on ice talk. From what I remember Zach had wanted to use this music for quite some time now

[@angelalaurent2324]

Great video! Thank you Dave and Jonathan! I love Evgenia...I really do. My heart broke for her at the Olympics, and it still does every time I watch her this season. There has to be a moment in every athlete's career when he/she realizes that it's time to move on to other things. This may be her time. I so enjoyed your video with Benoit. It was fascinating to hear his journey and how he kept moving forward and trying new things when something wasn't working or when other opportunities presented themselves. I think Evgenia should consider this in the back of her mind and know that being a world-class figure skater is not her only calling. While she still is beautiful to watch, that old magic is turning tragic. Was is a mistake leaving Eteri? Absolutely not from a physical and mental health perspective. However, I don't think she is Brian's priority as he has so many other skaters to coach. When Brian coached Kim Yuna, he didn't have the large amount of students that he currently has. He was able to take her to the top and give 100% of himself. I just don't think he has that availability right now, and having him as her coach is not everything Evgenia though it would be. Only time will tell. Thank you so much Dave and Jonathan!

[@TheSkatingLesson]

I think Brian invests quite a bit of time in Evgenia. I just think she needs longer time to implement changes before we will know whether this will work out. I think we will have a better idea by this summer.

[@qiqisongs]

Angela Laurent Just a few months with Brian Orser's team and she has improved massively in her jumps and skating skills. Brian's team has obviously invested a lot of time on her, so much that it is the other skaters that could have been neglected.

[@letgo2217]

You guys were definitely right about how uninspired Hubbell/Donohue's free dance looks. They did a print interview with NBC Sports before Skate America and Zach said that their team had a really hard time picking music this season but that Madison liked Kissing You so MF let them go with it. I feel like it's never a good sign when you and coach don't have any ideas for music so you just kind of settle on something. Reminds me of how VM ended up settling for The Seasons and we all know how that went. It just feels like a let down after how good Hubbell/Donohue's free dance was last year. But Dave I can't believe you haven't commented on how bad Madison's free dance dress it is.......changing that alone would make the program look 10x better. Also you're right that Zhenya needs a new free skate. The tango is just not working.

[@scavo2003]

What's wrong with Madison's dress? I really like it

[@letgo2217]

@@scavo2003 I find the color really underwhelming and don't like the shape of it. I think her new RD dress is a much better style on her.

[@wdaniel4914]

After seven months, do you guys still feel Mako is heavy on ice now!!!

[@mariamrusishvili1724]

I already hear people saying Zagitova was skating on Carmen but Evgenia was Carmen but I hope there will be no more Carmen in any figure skating comp

[@mackoCF445]

I wish Alexa and Chris could have worked things out with Aljona. The potential for greatness with this partnership was intriguing. Alexa reminds me of Aljona in some ways. At the same time, I had a couple concerns, such as Aljona working mostly by herself without a right-hand man, Aljona still involved in her own skating career, and them possibly trying to make too many changes too fast all at once instead of building up a bit more gradually. Still, there’s no doubt that they have bettered their skating with her and hopefully they won’t forget the things they worked on. And they seem open to working with her again in the future. I could have sworn a couple seasons back you were really singing Meno and Sand praises. I can’t remember what spurred on that convo but you seemed high on them. None of us really know what they’re like and hopefully whichever coach Alexa and Chris choose is a good fit because they deserve good coaching.

[@RocketCandyColored]

Nooooooo I love Kayne and O'Shea's short

[@theacm4741]

Dave I love your contents though I don't necessarily agree in everything but like you and Jonathan I'm certainly thrilled for what is coming and happening in the current skating state. P.s but I'm more looking forward to watching your Eunsoo interview 😁 it's going to be a great birthday treat .

[@TheSkatingLesson]

Hope you enjoyed the Eunsoo interview!

[@matthewhines9787]

I love love love how thirsty Johnathan is. #teammorgan #teamzachary #pelvicfloor

[@larhumba4233]

Oh! Excuse me! Nick Buckland sitting in the K&C with his younger brother in a blue suit and tie looking soooo handsome. Wins hands down. 😎

[@jimmyplank9824]

Evgenia's FS is definitely salvageable. It's just that the first phase of music, though not by any means bad music, has such an elusive mood to the point that I'm not really sure what to feel. I think David Wilson might be having the same problem. I say they let Evgenia herself attempt to rework some of the choreo since she is the one who chose this music and therefore probably has a better understanding of it.

[@kennydreadfuls861]

I have fallen woefully behind in memorizing my script between all of the pageantry this weekend. I am now watching this with my script in my lap for osmosis. Because I heard Carmen thrown out there for “Empress” and Dave was half joking and I was wholly yessing myself to death! I’m almost not joking.

[@TheSkatingLesson]

Could you imagine?! I would be dying!

[@kennydreadfuls861]

I would be living!

[@alex8matt]

+1 for Tuk 3A is fair

[@TheSkatingLesson]

alex8matt agreed

[@mattcastg5170]

On top of the technical caller being unusually strict with the spin positions, anybody else feel like they’re being stricter with the levels for step sequences? I’ve seen a large number of top skaters getting a level 2 as opposed to the level 3’s or 4 we usually see with top skaters. Were there significant changes made to step sequences with the rules & scoring overhaul this year?

[@ElvenstarRF]

hmm Carmen from Zhenya is a great idea actually

[@TheSkatingLesson]

ElvenstarRF I agree with you, naturally. :)

[@sywillis62]

I think Starr Andrews has lots of potential but I have also have to wonder is she is really invested in a skating career. She needs a lot of work, posture, choreography, you can tell her curves are setting in. Dave said something about her Whitney song and why she brought in Whitney’s voice in the end. I think it was because Whitney was an influence on her singing and she wanted to show that. She needs to find an influence for her skating as well.

[@TheSkatingLesson]

It is just jarring to the listener and not the best comparison for ANYONE (No shade directed at Starr---no one can compete with Whitney!)

[@katspov9945]

I am not a fan of either of Evgenia's programs. I found myself wishing the FS would end while watching it. That music doesn't work at all. Jason's FS felt very Patrick Chan for me. Not a bad thing. I don't love it though.

[@meltemt0245]

15.52 Evgenia Medvedeva💖💖💙💙

[@sheriwhite7303]

Love Piper/Paul dance to Vincent.

[@JessieBanana]

Oh wow, if the GPF is Vancouver I might go. I could take the Bolt Bus or get a cheap plane ticket.

[@PeiwenTanbassoon821]

Booooo I was counting on Jonathan to roast Mako Yamashita’s sp music. Still love ya tho :p About Evgenia, I think Orser is trying to make too many changes with her all at once and now she has to think too much. I feel that they should take easy on the lutz edge for now and focus more on being able to be consistent with her new speed and the new double axel technique and hopefully she’ll be able to concentrate more on performing. They better get those levels back up too, focusing too much on the lutz is making her losing a lot of points. P.s. I gasped when Dave said “Carmen” lol

[@JohnnyOpera1]

PwT I’m proud of my restraint. Ha

[@koalapayslater]

Well, they probably want her to be prepared for the next season already. Evgenia said that she is ready for some fails along the way and I guess she is prepared to fail this season if it means that she will be better by next season when she will face Eteri's juniors. Girl clearly has a lot of motivation after this silver at Olys

[@PeiwenTanbassoon821]

dkarw I’m not saying they should stop working on the lutz edge completely but to stop making it the main focus.

[@PeiwenTanbassoon821]

​@mish098aimer I know that and I do think they are doing the right things to make those changes but just doing it strategically wrong, which is putting more pressure on her (too many lutzs) and also making her neglecting things she should be able to do pretty well such as spins.

[@PeiwenTanbassoon821]

mish098aimer I think she’s already doing not bad at doing the jumps with her new speed now considering she really hasn’t work on it very long and I believe she’ll get there. Repeating the lutz in the long just seems a little too over the top for now (I do think she should keep trying it in the short tho).

[@trevorfuncheon8501]

What are your thoughts regarding the Gymnastics WC? With Morgan qualifying for AA,UB and FX over Riley and Grace and what are (in your opinion) her chances in medaling in those finals? As well as Simone’s kidney stone problem right before competition! Do you think Ragan being the alternate over Kara was a good decision? (regardless of Kara qualifying for Beam Final)

[@TheSkatingLesson]

It does look like Ragan being the alternate was a very good decision. I am not sure if Ragan will make it back to Worlds.

[@gordoncornish3873]

so ok i am ready to be attacked for my opinion and critique....this was a HUGE fail for Team Orser..and a much bigger disservice to Evgenia. The music was tired and stale, the arm flapping and overly contrived and predictable choreography, consisting of emoting and other "touch points" tried to cover for a lack of mechanics, the dresses were another story and i generally felt Evgenia didn't even believe in what she was doing. i do feel for her as she has nothing to prove to anyone and Team Orser should have never taken on the task...i just wanted to see her SKATE!! I feel everyone wanted to leave their finger print on her and ultimately forgot about her! So attack away..i do come from TCS&CC , was in the "system"..granted many decades ago, know Team Orser from competitive days , not as coaches, and do feel at odds commenting but this was a total miss and i am not even sure what the target was....i would love the whole thing scrapped and to see Evgenia skate!!

[@marycoyne1889]

I agree. the intricacy of choreography that she used to shine with isn't here. the programs and costumes are so generic now. I miss the lightness and joy in her skating.

[@erikhai1]

If you're going to do a video on choreo sequences, show Deniss Vasiljevs.

[@TheSkatingLesson]

Erik Hai great tip! I will probably do that element in a few weeks.

[@suzannefraser4966]

Good luck getting tickets to the Grand Prix Final as it is a really small arena by the university

[@TheSkatingLesson]

suzanne fraser I have tickets. I just need to book my trip.

[@MsTeach3]

My understanding is it was completely sold out. I’d go if I could get decent tickets .

[@Kat240]

The anime opening song???

[@sywillis62]

1:00:36 Reactions are PRICELESS! 😬😬😮😂😂

[@TheSkatingLesson]

[@ashleynoelle1632]

There's no good u.s ladies this year I have to find new favorites. I'm really starting to like satoko

[@annushka0113]

Ashley Juszczyk I’m holding out for Mariah. She was such a joy to watch during yesterday’s FS.

[@ashleynoelle1632]

I hope she stays consistent tho

[@user-yj6wo8bf9m]

@@ashleynoelle1632 I really hoped Mariah would do much more yesterday than she did, but she isn't consistent, so we are stuck with Bradie, I think she has most potential, cause of consistency and effort she invests.

[@ashleynoelle1632]

I think our hope is in the future generations now I think we may have 4 to 5 more unsuccessful years before the us gets back in line with the rest of the world because I think were now realizing after our worst Olympics ever that our methods aren't working and hopefully we do something new and different with the upcoming generation