This and That: Javier Fernandez Documentary, Ilia Malinin IG Live, Carolina Kostner on Netflix

This week, we were fascinated by Javier Fernandez's documentary and the Netflix documentary featuring Carolina Kostner about ex-boyfriend Alex Schwazer. Meanwhile, Ilia Malinin is involved in controversy after making comments on Instagram Live about program components scores and Yuzuru Hanyu. Olivia Smart gave an interview about the end of her partnership. And Aliona Kostornaia and Georgy Kunitsa debuted their new short program. We break it all down on the latest edition of 'This and That'.
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The goal of The Skating Lesson (TSL) is to share our passion and knowledge of the sport with all of you. Whether you call it figure skating, ice skating, Eiskunstlauf, фигурное катание, 피겨 스케이팅, フィギュアスケート, 花样滑冰, 花樣滑冰, patinage artistique, pattinaggio artistico or patinaje artístico, we hope you'll share your passion with us as well. isu figure skating, dancing on ice (новости фигурного катания) eteri tutberidze show, команда тутберидзе, this and that, новости фигурного катания, александра трусова травма, алена косторная травма, alena kostornaia youtube channel, Дарья Усачева травма

[@alexandrab.3032]

The whole Malinin analysis is spot on! Certainly dented his public image (rightfully so) and the Yuzu comment is just a PR disaster. Also imo he’s old enough to be accountable for what he says

[@elizabethlockhart8044]

Does USFS or ISU have any rules against these types of comments made by skaters such as Malinin?

[@chrissylew4669]

I don't think Yuzu is piss off.. knowing he and he being Japanese...

[@awuma]

Some leeway for his age is needed. He has made extraordinary achievements at a young age, and it has gone a bit to his head, "woda sodowa". or soda water, as is said in Eastern Europe. I'm sure he will learn to be much more careful in future, but one must remember that the freedom to say things is much greater in Eastern Europe than in the Anglosphere (though not regarding a country's rulers or military, as here in Poland). There is a cultural component here. The comments regarding Polina's and Dave's own early statements are certainly relevant. There needs to be some forgiveness on the Net.

[@flywings111]

​@@awuma Malinin was born and raised in the US, in Anglo-American environment (school, friends, media, culture). He never lived in Eastern Europe. Pulling the age card is ridiculous, too, he is 18, an adult, not 14 ffs. At that age he is responsible for his actions and words. Period.

[@rop888]

@@awuma lol Ilia is 100% American, born and raised and doesn't even speak Russian well. Yes, he has his parents but he's surrounded by normal American kids and friends. And actually I think he feels he's been robbed by not achieving what he thinks he deserved.

[@OGGuy-xb1yk]

Ilia has not delivered clean programs under pressure, maybe he needs some self reflection. Ilia maybe able to tour Russia, but the indirect digs toward Yuzu will hurt any career in Japan. I’ve seen Ilia interviews and he doesn’t come off as a joker. I am a believer that when someone says something they mean it. He believes Jason gets the PCS cause he’s gay..I haven’t ever heard anyone say Jason doesn’t deserve PCS? That’s an odd thing to say. He’s so concerned about Jason, when Shoma out scored him by about 20 points on a bad technical day for Shoma.

[@embeth446]

Maybe he believes Shoma and Jun-Huan Cha are gay. How else would they beat him, after all?

[@clara_r91]

@@embeth446 i think it's not about components at all, but the 2022 situation with Olympic team

[@angie0106]

It seems like jmedia hasnt picked on his dig on yuzu. They hv picked on his homophobe comment tho. So, it seems like his career in japan will be fine for now, unfortunately

[@louisehancock324]

@@clara_r91 I agree that’s a part of his problem but his performances at both Worlds and the WTT should show him Jason was the correct choice. He was not going to beat Yuma, Shoma or Yuzuru at the Olympics. Nathan fell apart at the 2018 Olympics but used those losses as a basis to improve his jumps and artistry. Ilia should be following that same game plan to improve not whining.

[@Jeremy-wp4yh]

My pet peeve about figure skating is how the judging system very quickly tries to elevate individual skaters to have new "stars", just to watch them fall apart with either their technical or PCS. It took the OG skaters years to develop into well-rounded mature skaters. I dislike "one hit wonders" who retire at the end of a season.

[@TheSkatingLesson]

It isn't the system, it's the judges.

[@Edward-W]

Are you active on twitter Jeremy? Because I always enjoy your based skating takes in the youtube comments

[@L1623VP]

That's what the judges did with Kagiyama. He popped into '21 Worlds, but his first full season out of juniors was the 21-22 Olympic season. With a very short stature, no real body line, and somewhat childish "cutesy" presentation, and no transitions in his SP, this was his total score escalation from the start of the season to the Olympics: GP Italy: 278.02, GP France: 286.41, Olympics Games: 310.85! That's quite the BUMP: isn't it? It's 32.83 more points than Italy and 24.44 more points than France, and only adding a MISSED quad loop. It seems someone is VERY invested in making Kagiyama the next Hanyu. Amazingly, Kagiyama didn't get hammered in PCS his entire first season like Nathan and Ilia did. Kagiyama is certainly no Paul Wylie or Jason Brown and yet, his GOE and PCS would suggest that he is. For me, he's a prime example of what you're describing. With so many A-list skaters having retired or taken a break from competition after Beijing, it certainly seems the ISU is looking to anoint a new "star", whether he's worthy of the scores or not, instead of allowing the existing skaters to develop and a real star to naturally emerge. This need to create a "star" also happened at '22 Worlds with Uno. His scores from the Olympic season were: GP America: 270.68, GP Japan: 290.15, Olympic Games: 293.00, and '22 Worlds: 312.48! That's a whopping 41.80 more points from the beginning of the season and 19.48 points more than the Olympics just six weeks earlier. Uno deserved to win, but not with that score. It's completely out of line historically for him.

[@fsc4823]

@@TheSkatingLesson but if the system is allowing this kind of judging and it’s consistently benefited one or two countries more than anyone else, it becomes a systemic issue. how can we look at russian figure skating and not see it as a systemic problem in the sport?

[@Edward-W]

@@L1623VP At least get your facts right. Yuma's first full senior season was 2020-2021 with Regionals, Sectionals, Nationals, NHK and Worlds. (The rest of the GP events and 4CC were cancelled, so I suppose by your definition everyone else just "popped" into 2021 Worlds as well). He had already competed in 2 senior competitions for 2019-2020. Why do you mention "very short stature" as if that should mean lower scores? "No real body line" is just plain false. He has beautiful lines and extensions. Always room to improve, but we've seen worse score higher before. "Somewhat childish cutesy presentation" is just you not liking his choice of music. The song is literally "When You're Smiling". So yes, there's some smiling, skipping, toe tapping and appropriate hand movement involved. If you think that's childish and "cutesy", that's your problem, but when it's literally him interpreting the music perfectly and having a choreography full of text painting and fantastic physical expression, don't go complaining that his PCS are too high. "No transitions in his SP" is just straight up false too. It's interesting that when you compare his scores and *falsely* claim he didn't add any new jumps, you don't actually mention his Tech BV, how he actually performed at those comps and how much better he has become overall. In 2020-2021 his total score at Worlds was only 4,56 point higher than at his first competition at Regionals. The only notable difference in his SP is how he changed his StSq and improved from level 2 to 4. So his SP score had a very reasonable 2.5 increase. His FS is interesting because after Regionals he changed his music, cotsume and choreo completely but kept the technical elements the same in a slightly different order. The new Avatar program was much stronger on the PCS side so with the similar level of technical succes (1-2 mistakes on jumps), his total FS score increased by 2.06 from Regionals to Worlds. Again, reasonable. From his first international senior competition at 4CC 2020 to next season's Worlds 2021 his total Tech BV increased from 121.95 to 135.36. That increase comes from adding a total of 3 MORE QUADS, switching his solo triple jumps to more difficult ones, moving a combo to the back half of his FS and improving his StSq. From 2021 Worlds to Olympics his SP Tech BV doesn't change apart from a 0.6 difference between level 3 and 4 StSq changing back and forth, but he keeps performing his jumps better and more consistently. But his FS Tech BV DOES change. Why? *Because he adds a new QUAD jump.* And he actually does that during the Olympic season. At the GP events or Nationals he doesn't do 4Loop, but he does it at the Olympics. So again, you are just straight up lying. Also he puts a 4S+1Eu+3S combo to the back half of the FS. Earlier in the season his FS quad combo was 4T+3T in the first half, at Olympics it's 4S+1Eu+3S in the second half. That's makes a significant difference. In the Oly team event he did every element perfectly, but in singles event the 4Lo was q with 1 hand down, which is accurately reflected in the score. Yuma's GOEs ranging from +3 to +5 when he lands them well is perfectly in accordance with the bullets for rewarding positive GOE. When successful, he often clearly gets 4-5 of the 6 bullets (He doesn't always have "4. steps into a jump, unexpected or creative entry" or "6. element matches the music.") Now if you want to compare that with Jason who, when successful, consistently fulfills 5-6 of the 6 bullets. Many of his jumps are often in the top 10 highest GOEs from the competition as a whole. But since the GOE caps at +5 with 6 bullets, I don't think it's unfair that Yuma gets +4 and +5 when he executes a perfect element. The highest average PCS from senior competitions each season for Yuma increased from 8.11 (2020 4CC) to 8.73 (2021 Worlds) to 9.42 (2022 Olympics). It isn't all that suspicious when you look at how much he has actually improved. Also when comparing to Yuzuru's PCS increase from 2011-2012 season (his second senior season) to his 2013-2014 season, it's is pretty much the same as it was for Yuma. Yuzuru's highest average PCS from senior competition goes from 7,989 (2012 Worlds, 1 fall) to 8.84 (2013 Nationals) to 9.21 (2014 Olympics with 2 falls). The rate of increase is almost identical, and taking into account Yuzuru getting his season's best PCS despite the falls in his performances, the increase seemed to favor him more. Why would you complain about a good skater "not getting hammered in PCS his entire first season"? If he deserves good PCS for good skating, why should it be low just because he is new? And comparing Yuma's first senior season to Nathan or Ilia is beyond ludicrous. Their first seasons were not even close to Yuma in components. You can call it "Making Kagiyama the next Hanyu" if you so wish. But you don't need to run your mouth lying about how his scores are unjustified just because you don't like the fact that he's a high quality skater right at the start of his senior career unlike some others. And right after you complain about new skaters getting too much spotlight, you turn to make up lies about Shoma Uno, who has been consistently topping podiums since 2015. He broke 300 for the first time in 2017, continuing to do so *for 5 competitions in a row.* The highest of those was 319.84 with the new +5,-5 GOE system. So tell me how exactly was 312.48 "completely out of line historically for him." The reason for his abysmal score at Skate America was a popped quad (disqualified) in his SP and 4 out of his 7 jumps in the Free being messed up. He kept making lots of errors throughout the season. Including the Olympics where he had 3 messy jumps including a fall. A clean program by Shoma absolutely deservedly gets 300+ points. That's it. Well. This was a nice little research project. I had fun.

[@fzztsimmons]

I posted this on the short but every bit of it still stands re Ilia .... It’s so incredibly disrespectful to many skaters he’s been in shows with recently, and I don’t know how this can be read as anything other than a dig at Jason & Kevin, the only two openly out skaters who recently beat him at WTT. In case of the former, it’s incredibly sad considering how kind, humble and supportive Jason has been towards Ilia this season. And to say that someone like Jason gets his component scores because of his sexuality??? How have you spent so much time seeing what that man can do on the ice and not be able to recognise the hard work, time and effort Jason puts in every day to develop his skating skills. It's blatant ignorance and arrogance. In addition, the way this suggests that LGBTQ skaters are somehow privileged or advantaged in this sport... He needs some history lessons from queer skaters in this sport, it has not been and still is not a safe space to be LGBTQ and so many skaters have talked about the fear of repercussions from being open about their sexuality. Finally his non-apology made it even worse - big “I’m sorry you were offended by what I said” vibes, no acknowledgement of what he said as wrong and that he won’t do it again. THEN having the gall to post a reel with Jason, as if he is some sort of LGBT token friend he can use to provide he isn’t a bigot? Plus him/his manager blocking everyone who left a comment about it… Big yikes. Hope he enjoys the next few weeks of being on tour with Jason and Paul and is able to see it as an opportunity to learn.......

[@zonedutopia]

Who else misses times where skaters had to skate for years to get components scores ;_;

[@gggyuli]

Lucas Broussard is still in juniors and already has better ss than Malinin

[@TheSkatingLesson]

Correct

[@RedShoes29]

I LOVE Lucas's skating. I hope he transitions well into a senior career.

[@scaratthedisco]

When synchro worlds were in Canada and Javi was training there, he came to watch Team Spain. It was so wonderful to see him supporting Spanish skaters in person.

[@TheSkatingLesson]

[@gggyuli]

It seems to be an indirect dig towards Jason. He is incredibly cocky which makes him unlikeable. He lost me as a supporter.

[@TheSkatingLesson]

It does

[@jamesyu5212]

He doesn't need you as a supporter though. Let's be honest. It's not like you pay to watch his shows.

[@emmafox4069]

@@jamesyu5212 I think this alienated a lot of people, going by the conversations that were happening on Twitter and Reddit. He’s already not the most popular skater-to make indirect nasty comments towards two of the biggest fan favorites in just one day is a problem.

[@janvdb9258]

@@emmafox4069 ignore James, he is bitter and an Eteri Eteri delulu

[@jamesyu5212]

@@janvdb9258 is that somehow an insult? You're pathetic. Skating does not revolve around Yuzu or people's mutual hate or admiration for Eteri. I hate it when people claim " he's lost my support..." Lol. It's not politics. You don't vote for him. Who cares about your support? Unless you pay money to watch ice shows, or sponsor him, or subscribe to his patreon, he doesn't give a shayt what you think. Every sport needs a villain. Even Ru Paul's drag race give some competitors villain edits. Without it the sport is boring. Tennis? There are bad boys like Medvedev and Kyrgios. They don't need to behave like Federer. Ilia doesn't need to be politically correct. It's a sport. You would hope he'd be judged fairly regardless of what he says. And he says a lot more interesting things than the usual pageant answers skaters give.

[@doorkeys]

Loved listening to you two while I am cooking every Sunday. You guys are the best!!! You guys were spot on with an Ilia. Also, even though he's young, 18 is actually considered an adult in Canada where I am at. He's really not a kid no more and even if he didn't intend to be malicious in his comments, it really shows a lack of sensitivity and immaturity. I am a teacher and I see a lot of Junior and high school students who know better than to make these comments especially in this day and age.

[@TheSkatingLesson]

🙏

[@0JaneSun0]

Hanyu is not the type of person who holds grudge and it's unlikely he would get in the way if Ilia is invited to ice shows.

[@nvadqs]

I am from Madrid. Yes, there had never been and Ice Show before Javi's show. The only skating you could go to was Disney on Ice, once a year, over Christmas, and that began in the 90's. I was so excited when he announced it... and I also didn't know what to expect since you didn't know what an Ice show was. It was an almost immediate sold-out the first year. Three hours queue to get in. And most of the people sitting around me have no idea about skating. They wouldn't recognize the skaters announced or wouldn't value most of the things that are the real skating things (it's Spain so people comments are very out loud. I get to explain lots of things to people around me). Yet, everyone was ecstatic, and when Javi appeared the crowd exploded. That's when I realized people were there to support Javi and his enterprise. Everybody loves Javier in Spain, as much as Rafa Nadal. We are so proud that, having nothing, they did achieved what they achieved.... The second year wasn't an immediate sold out also because the number of shows multiplied by 5. Eventually, all were sold out. I remembered being in disbelief when I saw the lineup... The best of the best IN MY CITY... that's unprecedented for any skating fan in Spain. P/C D/R, Yuna... and watching Sandra and David there, so proud of everything. I wonder how he got all this first liners to come to Spain. And then I read a comment by Papadakis hoping that it all worked out well for Javier. And then I realized the skaters came because of Javier too. They wanted him to succeed in bringing Skating to Spain. And they did. The fan base for the sport has increased exponentially, we have 6 Christmas Ice Rinks just in Madrid where there were none 10 years ago... people do know what is Gran Prix... Having been a fan of skating in Spain for over 30 years, it's difficulty for me to put into words what Javi has accomplished....

[@KremIsis]

than you for this comment, it was a pleasure to read it.

[@Julia-js7bs]

Kostornaia/Kunitsa are giving "she is everything, he's just Ken"!

[@TheSkatingLesson]

💯

[@tranquilitytranquility1407]

She IS everything! 💙

[@LadyMariannn06]

Illia comments were so unfortunate, I don’t know if he really knows what he was saying but I think this will have repercussions in his future, like you said so spot-on here. Someone who names himself a quad god really has some ego issues. I want to believe he will improve on his artistic side but these comments make it hard to like him. I mean, he will never be a Shoma (needless to say there will never be a Yuzu) but I expected to see improvements. Clearly his focus is ill-placed

[@nondescriptnyc]

I totally get your point! Had he been the age of 14…or even 17, maybe we could have let this slide. But, at the age of 18, the “he’s just a kid” excuse may not be convincing, at least in the U.S. Many may consider Ilia Malinin a “quad king,” but I am not among them, primarily because of his atrocious technique.

[@thulekovish8188]

@@nondescriptnyc "atrocious technique"? LOL!

[@shalom968]

Atrocious technique? What the hell are you talking about?

[@nondescriptnyc]

@@shalom968 Oy…if you have to ask… His skid entry into 4A, for instance.

[@shalom968]

@@nondescriptnyc oh that’s a good one. No one else has been able to master the physics involved in doing a quad axel in the whole world. But he has bad technique. Never mind that his technique is the only technique that has worked in history to pull it off, but yeah, he needs to learn from the others that can’t land it yet. In particular, he needs to learn from you since your technique is superb to his. Maybe you should be his coach.

[@skatingcanuck9837]

You are so right about the Russian skaters. Their programs are all about racking up the points over performance. Jumps-jumps-jumps and when they spin it is about points, not presentation. Their careers are short because their training regimes and goals are not sustainable.

[@TheSkatingLesson]

💯

[@РыжаяРыжая-ш1ш]

Нейтан Чен и Винсент Джоу тоже русские?

[@KiffiStinkt]

Watch kosternaya and Medvedeva they were the real Performers of Tutberidze …agree with the rest of the tut skaters tho

[@PeiwenTanbassoon821]

It’s specifically when someone’s a kid they need to be taught to be better. If they keep getting a slide cuz “they’re just a kid” they’ll never change.

[@embeth446]

He, himself, uses the kid excuse which is so hilarious. “My teenager behavior” 🙄

[@mprb7051]

He’s 18. That is not a kid anymore. Legal adult. Can vote, can go to war, etc. He is more than old enough to know better. He’s always arrogant. I haven’t liked him from the start. Great jumper, mediocre skater, cocky snd arrogant personality.

[@Bnizzofashizzo]

I’m usually critical of dave but I’m impressed how level headed he was talking about the Ilia situation.

[@TheSkatingLesson]

Thanks

[@JoshuaFazeli]

Such a read! 🤨

[@jennifer5512]

Dave, I really enjoy your balanced take on the "touchy" subjects. I really think you are the best at covering these kinds of topics. Great stuff from you and Jonathan as always! I was disappointed in Ilia for the gay comment definitely. He's young and hopefully he'll learn but I hate when people act like being gay gives anyone any type of advantage. As you mention, figure skating still sadly as plenty of homophobia. Along with the homophobia, you make a good point that it shows he's perhaps not taking his need to improve the second mark as seriously as he should be. Hopefully he will learn from this.

[@TheFlowMind]

I gave Ilia the benefit of the doubt until this senior season. But I think it's now clear to anyone that he’s a spoiled young man who thinks he should have been at the top because of his technical arsenal. Simple as that. They feed him this narrative, and he’s angry that things didn’t turn out his way. His attempt to take a dig at Yuzuru was embarrassing. What is worse is that they’re never going to address his issues but do everything in their power to mask it and demand he's rewarded just for trying with no attempt in bettering his lacking skating skills. I saw him live a few times and was a very disappointing watch.

[@annwrog]

Same, I agree. Although I have personally enjoyed watching him this season, but his conduct shows a lack of maturity and is disappointing.

[@Sprinting72]

Spot on observation re Malinin's team thinking they can improve his program component scores by simply putting him in a better costume and getting some better music. You know that's what they're expecting next season. This fall should definitely be interesting.

[@Person-mh6xq]

I actually believe that his music choices and those tacky, overdone costumes are 70% of the problem. He absolutely skates with 100% passion, but there is something grating about his music selections and outfits.

[@yohanes2034]

@@Person-mh6xq his costumes are tacky but at least they're costumes. He replaced them later in the season to black button shirt and printed t'shirt lol.

[@shalom968]

Judges do get biased over music. If Alexandra Trusova had not picked that edgy gothic style music, she probably would have won the Olympics in my opinion. Anna picked music that was traditional, like ballet style and had 2 quads. Trusova had 5 quads. I have seen Alexandra skate to classical style music and all of a sudden people are commenting that she looks so much more artistic. It was the music. Same Alexandra, just different music, and all of a sudden they think she is artistic.

[@louisehancock324]

Ilia was believing all the hype about his greatness while ignoring the fact that he is not a well rounded skater yet. The last two competitions highlighted his areas that are lacking. I think Ilia needs a better coaching team, sometimes parents need to step back. Nathan Chen is a great jumper but he knew he needed to improve on his artistry and developed his own style of artistry. I doubt he thought that not being gay was hampering his PCs scores.

[@kyliemiu]

Ilia's artistry and skating skill was actually much worse in person than on Livestream.

[@dkeinow]

on the Kamila Valieva case: I don't know who mastered the delaying tactics first to escape justice, Donald Trump or RUSADA

[@TheSkatingLesson]

It is ridiculous

[@rachelheller1396]

I am a semi fan of Ilia Malin but he is cocky and he keeps adding to his cockiness. It's going to get old and one day it will bite Ilia in the butt. Fans will go away in droves. Seemily attacking Jason Brown isn't the way to go. Jason Brown gets the component scores because he is an exquiste skater. Most of Jason's programs past, present, and future will be remembered for years to come. In addition, Jason is one of of the most beloved skaters of all time. Also, didn't Jason stand up for Illia? Moreover, making Yuzuru annoyed is not a good idea at all.

[@lumpyspacecadet]

Isn't it already happening? That Ilia's getting bit in the butt for his cockiness? I've seen plenty of die hard fans of his having a rough time swallowing this jagged little pill.

[@trisanatandler]

I honestly think Yuzu will ignore a kid with an inflated self

[@peteregan7864]

There have been many good 'jumpers' in figure skating history but are they the ones we remember and revere? NO. Those with great artistic components are the ones we never forget. I doubt that Malinin will ever have the artistry of a Youzu or Jason if he hasn't already begun to achieve it and his apparent dig at Jason reminds me of Yagudin 's comments in commentary about Jason. Seems it could be cultural.

[@nondescriptnyc]

Personally, I don’t even think he is a good jumper. Midori Ito was, as are/were Nathan Chen, Denise Biellmann, Elaine Zayak, Yuzu, Brian Boitano, Brian Orser, etc. etc. Ilia Malinin may rotate and land, but his atrocious technique disqualifies Ilia Malinin to be placed in the same category, in my opinion.

[@jamesyu5212]

​@@nondescriptnyc I'm glad you added that's just your opinion.... Because it's garbage.

[@user-jy8zb2wc8l]

​@@jamesyu5212whoa... wish you had the courtesy to say in the same. Sometimes it's better to have a garbage opinion than be a garbage person to someone, hm?

[@nondescriptnyc]

@@jamesyu5212 Thank you for sharing your opinion-and letting the world know that you don’t recognize quality.

[@jamesyu5212]

@@nondescriptnyc you can call Ilia with every insult in the book, and you may be right in some respects. But Calling his technique atrocious is clearly ignorant. Let's remember, Yuzu at 19 couldn't do a quad salchow to save his life. And don't come at me for that statement, because he said that himself in a documentary that the reason he trained his quad loop was to get his quad salchow in better shape. And here we have Ilia, who at 17 literally has all 6 quads in his repertoire. And you come at his for his supposedly garbage technique? Who the fark are you? I bet it's not just your opinion that's garbage, just saying. Say hello to your garbage family and enjoy living in your garbage house.

[@ckilbarger01]

Ilia is 18. He's old enough that he should know what he said was inappropriate. My thing is, if it is a joke, it's at the expense of Jason Brown. There's no way he doesn't know that we know that's who he was talking about.

[@Jeremy-wp4yh]

Dave please make another intro to This and That. I've been watching some older videos on the olympics. And I completely forgot about the iconic intro 😂.

[@TheSkatingLesson]

😂

[@ddjr6673]

Oh yes please!!!

[@seashellez]

ISU should not allow Russia back until the Valieva case is resolved and the teams get their medals!

[@TheSkatingLesson]

💯

[@janvdb9258]

Or Russia submits to regular drug testing

[@fattemame232]

I wonder if the ISU could consider a 10-point bonus for any skater that skates totally clean, I.e. with no negative GOE on any element. Obviously still open to being gamed, but might create an incentive to focus on clean skating.

[@eeeeeeeeeee2]

I also argue that step sequence should go from a point to twelve points where skaters like Ilia and Trusova receive negative GOE's and skaters like Jason, Shoma and Kaori receive 12 points with positive GOE's for their superb skating skills

[@jonathancavallin4920]

@@eeeeeeeeeee2 Yes, step sequences should be worth WAY more, and also the choreo sequence scoring should be modified introducing different levels.

[@fattemame232]

@@eeeeeeeeeee2 yes, I agree with this! Judges would obviously really need to figure their shit out so that someone like trusova got a 2 or 3 versus a better skater at 10 or 11, but that's a general problem and doesn't go to what a good idea increasing scoring for step sequences and choreo sequences is!

[@tomkroh2712]

Another home run of a show. Great discussion about Malinin. Can you imagine what the fall will be like? Can't wait!

[@TheSkatingLesson]

🙏

[@florenciab7051]

Honestly I doubt anything happens 😅 figure skating community is pretty much in agreement with the things he said 😅

[@groove-heroine]

I don't follow llia that much, but i hope he learns, matures, and becomes humble. In other professions, comments like that could complicate careers tbh. He needs to think before he speaks or he'll have foot-in-mouth troubles often. I am aware of yuzuru's fan base, they don't mess around.

[@bobuddy3513]

I know it's hard to believe in this day and age, but there really ARE people who are humble. And it's definitely not fake. Ilia may not be one of them, but they do exist.

[@yohanes2034]

Regarding Ilia comments, even if he was joking it means that he has that mindset ingrained in his brain: being gay or having "gay looking" programs (whatever he think that is) will give you good pcs. Also insulting Jason and Yuzuru fanbase? Not a good start of your career lol

[@ericachang4752]

Also insulting the judge panels

[@ariasvictoria3829]

@@ericachang4752 Well... thats okk

[@anthonydolio8118]

Michele Kwan was gracious from the age of 15. She would never had said anything disparaging about anyone else. She even withheld political opinions so as not to offend her fan base. This was taught to her by her parents and her coaches. Ilia lacks mentorship.

[@shalom968]

True. But it is also a different era, the internet age, where people Ilia’s age are following influencers and there is a whole different vibe of letting people into your world through social media. And his mentors end up being those he watches on social media. He feels the freedom to be himself and speak openly, not realizing that many listeners will not be amused. Something similar happened when Oksana Baiul won the Olympics. Just before the award ceremony, there was a delay in getting the Ukrainian anthem music. Nancy Kerrigan thought Oksana was just late because of putting makeup on. So she said something a little testy and snarky. She had just lost to her and it was clear that she felt she should have won instead and she was underscored or that Oksana was overscored. They played that remark over and over again on the sports channels, depicting Nancy as a sore loser. Nancy should have had the wisdom to keep her mouth shut, but she didn’t. One time Surya Bonaly refused to accept the medal around her neck in a protest because she thought she got a low score for being African American. Alexandra Trusova had a melt down because she thought she was robbed and given a low score. It has happened through the years. He will learn to keep his thoughts to himself more. He cannot be as transparent as he may think.

[@anthonydolio8118]

@@shalom968 All true. Everything these athletes say and do is open to scrutiny.

[@letitiakearney2423]

I’m sure Jason would be hurt as he’s really taking him under his wing helping him with his artistry

[@ericachang4752]

Jason is nice and way more mature. He'll just focus on his own skating.

[@Bnizzofashizzo]

Where did you get this whole notion of Jason Brown taking Elia under his wing? Jason Brown is just really nice and is willing to be friends with anyone as long as they are respectful and in some instances, even when they are not.

[@rop888]

@@Bnizzofashizzo Yeah, Jason was just a cheerleader at WTT and people act like he's Ilia's mentor. Stop making this about Jason challenge. Jason wasn't even around the majority of the season.

[@JoshuaFazeli]

If there was a PCS score for PETULANT SKILLS, Illia would get a 9.75 because there is always room for improvement!

[@christinastella8956]

From a welfare standpoint, Ilia's thinking/comments need to be checked because that's a harmful mindset to grow into...and this is the moment when it needs to happen. And apparently Alysa Liu referred to him in the past as a homophobe, so this ain't new behavior it seems. This kid needs to be told about John Curry. He needs to hear about what Johnny Weir, Rudy Galindo, Brian Boitano, etc went through *not that long ago*. It's the history of his own sport.

[@yellowsubmarine3421]

Ilia should just have stayed true to his promise to work on his components even if he was not fully sincere about that in an official press conference after worlds. At least it seemed he understood that he's lacking in that department. Instead, he multiplied his own intention to improve as a skater by zero. As for Jason, he is a better skater than Ilia by a country mile. Besides, he's been so supportive of Ilia the whole season. Yes, I feel it was a dig at Jason. It's a pity an 18-year-old doesn't know what it means to respect his teammates, gay people, any people in general and uses his age as an excuse. I am so disappointed. You are right that a good athlete needs a high self-esteem and some arrogance can be reflreshing to a certain extent but humility, maturity and kindness are way better and more productive in the long run. I hope Ilia will learn from it and grow as a person.

[@louisehancock324]

Well said.

[@Ardit-kq4bt]

He didnt even deserve third place at Worlds. The french skater deserved third place more than him

[@aniawacht3882]

@@Ardit-kq4bt it goes both ways, you must be well rounded “not only jumps” but also you can’t just have skating. Ilia landed 4 clean quads which was definitely enough

[@Moons_dreams5050]

​@@aniawacht3882c'on 4axel is just about 12 points ...ilia's skating need to be improving, his movement makes no sense, his jumps are good not enough to say perfect yet, till now he's not consistent too. I was supporting him and believe he can be good skater one day, but he's attitude are a lil bit like a disaster.( he just gonna hurt himself with those moves in future, he has carer to work on, so he must be vigilant)

[@blinky7046]

Ilia is not going to be able to do quads forever (especially considering the volume of quads he's doing now) and without them there isn't enough quality in the rest of his skating that demands any ice show invite. Especially if the show producers & the rest of the cast would have to put up with him, because I don't think there are many people in the skating community who wouldn't be put off by some aspect of what he said about Yuzu (because he could have that same attitude towards other skaters & legends in the sport) or what he said about being gay to get higher components. I hope he grows but I doubt he will, and regardless I find it almost impossible to root for him.

[@lauraxxx6412]

Javier's documentary was great! I'm glad you liked it😊

[@NG-ue4th]

Watching Kostornaia skate with her new partner reminded me of when Dave compared sara hurtado's partner to a pole that sara hurtado was dancing around (cause of how charismatic she was compared to him). Seriously though, if kosto has serious aspirations in the pairs discipline, she needs to get a better pair boy...they seemed like a not-very-optimal pairing...

[@trisanatandler]

She is probably dancing with him since he is her boyfriend - I think

[@lorrainemiddy4011]

i have a feeling malinin is going to create a few more messes down the road, and that this is just the beginning (of his end). he insulted fellow US fs teammate and senior jason brown, and gave zero face to Hanyu, potentially alienating Hanyu's gigantic global fanbase. both at home and abroad, he's shooting himself in the foot. will we be seeing icarus-like descent of the self-proclaimed quad god?...will be interesting to watch.

[@РыжаяРыжая-ш1ш]

Фаню никогда не примут Илью,потому что они никогда не смирятся с тем что Илья оказался гораздо более одаренным атлетом,сумевшим приземлить революционный прыжок.Илья сложный парень,но даже если он станет ангелом и душкой фаню его не полюбят.Да и не нужна ему самая неадекватная часть фк фандома,у него свои фанаты есть и еще будут расти

[@vanessafreitas1000]

This Ilia’s comment reminded that Italian gymnast that said she should paint her skin black in order to get good marks, referring to Simone Biles. It’s so awful. Sad he thinks that way when he should be reflecting where he could improve to get better marks.

[@tatatory]

Great episode as always, but you missed a HUGE piece of news this week-- the article in Slate about how Hubbel and Papadakis are training same-sex pairs dance exhibition programs!

[@TheSkatingLesson]

Excited to see it.

[@cyrra8865]

Ilia wants that Nathan Chen level of success but his only take away from watching Nathan was "do more jumps" and ignored the fact that Nathan was still artistic and did produce some beautiful spins here and there. Ilia only has the jumps, and I don't think he understands that's his issue. I was worried that Ilia was going to slowly become bitter and hateful after his last few losses, and it looks like it's happening :^/

[@julieryzha]

And... Nathan was humble. So much of his appeal given how talented he was/is. Someone please let Ilia know what humble means.

[@shalom968]

Nathan artistic?

[@julieryzha]

@@shalom968 absolutely

[@samchau3476]

@@julieryzha lmao

[@freedomlife3623]

we all can be competitive without being nasty and demeaning towards others, look at Shoma who is a great competitor, but still humble.

[@TheSkatingLesson]

100%

[@flywings111]

Shoma is very problematic. He said mysogynistic things in a live gaming stream, saying he hates women his age. His disrespectful behaviour in the green room at Beijing towards Yuzu was heavily criticised in Japan, too, though these reactions don't make it into the English speaking side of the fandom. Also his lack of knowledge about the selection criteria for Worlds this year and his criticising comments why Koshiro Shimada wasn't selected for Worlds caused major controvery, too. He isn't very smart, to put it mildly but he is less outspoken than big mouthed Malinin.

[@musicbee8861]

@@flywings111 first of all he never mentioned abt Koshiro not being selected for worlds, you're putting words into his mouth. He just said he didn't understand and wasn't happy abt the criteria jsf used for the assignments. You're making assumptions that it was abt Koshiro when it could have been anything even abt Shoma not being selected for 4CC or something else even, we'd never know. Anyways a lot of coaches and skaters were confused with the criteria regarding assignments including Yuma's team who thought Yuma would get better assignments. In short jsf wasn't clear abt their selection criteria(since it was different to the one they used in previous years) so they later had a meeting with everyone to clear things up. Maybe fact check next time before you spread misinformation :) Also how did he disrespect Yuzu? By saying Nathan was amazing at the olympics? I'll let Yuzu(who seems on very good terms with Shoma) be the judge of that, not random ppl on the internet trying to stir up drama

[@flywings111]

@@musicbee8861 Shoma didn't understand it because he automatically thought Koshiro with a silver medal would be selected for Worlds and he opened his mouth without thinking and checking facts. He was disrespectful and rude. Yuzu would have never said such silly things. Shoma's behaviour towards Yuzu was highly criticised everywhere and was talked about it for long months. If you don't believe me then search for the infos on Japanese sites.

[@EM-rm2xh]

Shoma made news for going on a rant against women while playing video games so..... Just because you don't see the news because of the language barrier doesn't mean that he hasn't had a scandal for being a misogynist. He's also put his foot in his mouth several times and comes across as a privileged rich boy with Japanese fed backing of the higher ups because of his family's wealth.

[@anthonydolio8118]

Thank you guys. An amazing conversation. Among some of your best.

[@ilovetheocean12]

Great analysis on the Ilia situation. For me, the “gay” comment very much reads as mask slip, showing that he is very insecure about his masculinity in a sport that, in the US and outside of fans, is often quoted as “for women and gay men,” where “real men” go to hockey. Especially in the casual setting that he was in, with his buddies, I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s constantly trying to prove to THEM that he isn’t “gay” by focusing on athletic jumps and ignoring the artistry. (I remember my own priorities at 18 and who I was trying to prove things to…) It’s a dark road to go down; if someone doesn’t knock some sense into his head soon, I’m afraid that he’ll be lost, constantly blaming the judges and fans for not rewarding him for being “cool” and “edgy” and “non-gay.” It’s a real shame. It’s put a major dent in his branding for sure, and almost certainly his future career. He COULD fix it, but given the doubling down on the non-apology and the post with Jason right after the live (which comes across as “I can’t be homophobic, I have gay friends”), he seems to be completely dedicated to shooting himself in the foot.

[@deeangel6396]

You guys don't make sense anymore. Leave Ilia alone, he's growing like many athletes. You wish you were young again so give him his space to make mistakes. I'm sure I can find many things youtube promoters have said negative about others.

[@shalom968]

Male skaters shouldn’t have to be asked over and over again if they are gay. It’s being bullied. I am not surprised by his comment because the question by the viewer was very inappropriate. He shouldn’t have to be asked about his sexual orientation. Think about it, really, it was very inappropriate and exhausting for a male heterosexual skater to have to answer. Perhaps the constant gay rhetoric triggered him to say something that he normally wouldn’t have said.

[@deeangel6396]

@@shalom968 Truth

[@samchau3476]

@@shalom968 lol

[@fairuzavagizova6940]

Honestly, I don’t believe there will be many repercussions from what Ilia said about Yuzu. He is not likely to be able to skate in Yuzu’s shows, but that would have been a long shot anyway, he is simply not the type for them. But as a top American skater he’s going to get his spot in the Stars Japan and the ICE for some time coming. Dreams on Ice is more up to his collaboration with Ari, I guess.

[@angie0106]

Yeah, IMG will still have him just based on who they need to promote. But FaOI, that's lowkey yuzu show, he aint getting there. He's lucky yuzu isnt the type to hold grudge and take revenge, else he wont be invited to DOI either.

[@aniawacht3882]

Omg all he said was yuzur was a little frustrated. Why tf are y’all getting so defensive, even Yuzuru’s prob didn’t react at all

[@fairuzavagizova6940]

@@angie0106 no, he said Yuzu looked pissed. No need to reinterpret things.

[@angie0106]

@@fairuzavagizova6940 i didnt reinterpret things...? I was agreeing with you? Or did you mean to reply to the other person?

[@angie0106]

@@aniawacht3882 he literally said yuzuru looked pissed. Not a little frustated. Lets stop twisting and inventing words shall we?

[@helenaprout1061]

Personal opinion here- I personally feel that Ilia is being let off the hook. I was 18 four years ago, and I remember when some kid made homophobic/transphobic comments on social media, my school made a point to have multiple assemblies and classes demonstrating why thats not okay, and holding the kid accountable. And that person was not in the public spotlight. In comparison, lets look at how harshly women of the same age are criticised for similar or less severe mistakes. The one that springs to mind (because it was so overblown) was how Evgenia Medvedeva was vilified for *allegedly* saying Alina Zagitova should have stayed in juniors, or the fury that erupted when she went to Canada. Nationalism etc aside, was she homophobic? No. Perhaps some people interpret it as a bit arrogant, but she generally appeared to speak respectfully about her colleagues. But that is not the same as making a bigoted comment like Ilia did. There are plenty of similar examples where womens behaviour/mistakes was massively blown out of proportion. I am not saying Ilia should be vilified like Medvedeva was, I am simply pointing out a sexist double standard that still exists. Boys will be boys is not a good reason to let 18 year old kids off the hook.

[@maryloureiff6489]

I am mulling and cogitating..the whole Ilia thing..having spent the last 10 yrs of my teaching career w 17/18 yr olds..from every imaginable background..race, religion,immigrants, the children of millionaires to kids who had locks on their refrigerators..so I have seen and heard a lot.Still pondering..and I was 18 once and I remember saying something that still makes me cringe..I was drinking underage at the time..but still..it has stayed w me..56 yrs after the fact...I learned from it.

[@TheSkatingLesson]

Agreed

[@lumpyspacecadet]

It's like they were saying here about Oksana Baiul having to deal with a ton of controversy because she was a young alcoholic. She sobered up and has learned from the mistakes of her youth. Ilia will, too, like we all do. I mean, at least many of us do.

[@lacynylons6317]

Yikes! I was impressed with Ilia’s quads and was rooting for him but hearing what he said, no longer a fan. What a shame. Bigots don’t deserve praise and support.

[@ВсёХорош-т8ю]

what did he say???

[@KiffiStinkt]

@@ВсёХорош-т8ю he said Dave can’t skate

[@LisaAllyssa]

It is interesting how Iliya’s parents raised him, he is Russian to his core. Seems like American culture did not rub on him.

[@Татьяна-э7д9с]

Русские гены

[@flywings111]

Of ourse he was influenced by American culture. Don't be ridiculous. He has always gone to American schools, he has American friends, he watched American TV and American shows, everywhere he goes he meets Americans. It is very funny that when he does good he is American, whens he doesn't he is suddenly Russian. 🤣 When he landed 4A Americans were so proud of him and denied it has anything to do with Russia, now that it is clear that he is a jerk you try to argue it is all because of Russian parents lol. His parents have been living in the US for 25-30 years too? They are already heavily influenced by American culture too. And if someone is born and raised in the US they are American. Ilia Malinin is American, period.

[@LisaAllyssa]

@@flywings111 man, you obviously have no idea what you are talking about. But regardless of your rant, my comment was not meant to be in a negative way. He just acts very Russian. As Russian American, whatever Iliya says, I am stuck with him, in sorrow or joy.

[@sinishapecov6161]

The bronze medal from Sochi in the biathlon woman relay was given this year, so you can do the math when the medals can be expected to be received.

[@janvdb9258]

Yikes

[@janvdb9258]

What about Yuna and the Korean fed appeal

[@fotomagrol]

Its unfortunate Ilia coments, but I agrre that it just show were his focuss is at the sport, if he does not work and be better his components and artistic side, there would be no more room for him to improve.

[@annwrog]

I like Ilia as a skater, and have defended him in the past,, but these comments and remarks are undefendable and uncalled for. It is not necessary to disrespect Yuzuru Hanyu or anyone else for that matter. And it's not very smart either. Hanyu is an idol worldwide. In Japan he is like a God. I think he's wonderful myself. Ilia, please think before making such careless and snarky remarks. It could get you blacklisted from participating in various shows and events. Especially in Japan, where there's soo much money to be made. Or lost. Or at least could render you undesirable or unhirable. Remember, you want people to like you, as well as marvel at your technical skill. You can still jump great, just try being nicer. Also, try to find a more upbeat song for your next program, instead of one with the opening words, "Oh Lord, I'm tired". "This old world is done with me" and so on. Slightly depressing. Take a cue from Yuzu, Jason Brown, and those with more uplifting programs.

[@freedomlife3623]

Will Nike ever dare to sponsor Illia if he is so lack of self reflection and compassion?

[@aniawacht3882]

All he said is he seems a lil pissed, I bet yuzuru prob didn’t even take that seriously it’s not that serious

[@chrissylew4669]

Very objective! second that on Ilia. No Russians and Hanyu it's not very interesting..just glad we still have Jason!

[@liceous]

Ilia is so annoying

[@alexac3098]

OMG I would DIE if Mark does the solo dance event!

[@PipPipS]

No skater deserves the higher PCS like Jason does right now ❤️ the heart he puts on his routines are so mesmerizing ❤️ not even Shoma has that ability (and Shoma is one excellent skater).

[@rop888]

I don't think Ilia is homophobic, but more like a dumb kid who says edgy things with his friends. I do think he let the mask slip about what he actually feels about his scores though. This has been obvious if you listen to his family and agent, but people believed he would sincerely work on his PCS which was the most important part. He pretty obviously doesn't think he needs to work on anything. The PR response at WTT was just that, something they know the judges want to hear. As for the Yuzuru comment, he's very lucky the Japanese media didn't pick up on it.

[@briseprintaniere3278]

それよりもアメリカによる陰惨な羽生叩きが日本のメディアによって拡散されることを願っています。まだ今回のマリニン君の発言の方が愛がある。

[@jessicaneedles3147]

I’m here for an athlete who knows their worth - Simone Biles called herself the GOAT and I was like yaaaassss, queen- but you need to be able to back it up. Ilia has faltered several times in the international stage and even though he’s an amazing athlete and has the ability to be the best in the world, chile, you are not there yet so maybe rein it in a bit.

[@matthewhines9787]

When I was diagnosed with diabetes in 2021, I had huge issues keeping my sugar under control. I was eating basically just veggies and meat and eggs, and if I had a glucose reading in the 300s, it was a good one. I went to the hospital and was prescribed Ozempic. I can't get it at the facility where I live. They put me on a huge dose of long acting insulin which has helped, but I know the Oz would work for me, and they won't pay the money for me to take it.

[@zb6070]

i dont think IAM wanted to have smart/diaz retire. There momentum with zoro made them a possible world medal material with the bann/retirement of the current season

[@accuula]

loved the podcast! nice to listen to you both :)

[@TheSkatingLesson]

🙏🙏

[@akcoady]

Yuzu's fans, let alone Yuzu, could derail Ilia's professional career within days.

[@TheSkatingLesson]

100%

[@briseprintaniere3278]

​@@TheSkatingLesson このチャンネルで羽生さんにしていたことも日本では知られてますし。アメリカの羽生ヘイターも相当なものですよね。

[@briseprintaniere3278]

​@@spring12041 何故アメリカの基準で考えるのですか。アメリカの基準以外は全て悪ですか。

[@briseprintaniere3278]

​​@@TheSkatingLesson 　あなたのチャンネルに対するある日本人らの嫌悪感について考えたことありますか。一種の炎上商法。マリニン君のことを一方的に非難できますか。もう本当にうんざり。

[@janvdb9258]

@@briseprintaniere3278 in the Nathan vs Yuzu rivalry, they supported Yuzu as being better overall.

[@lumpyspacecadet]

Is Ilia becoming the hot mess that Oksana Baiul was back in her youth? Honestly, it was hard and confusing to witness Oksana going through that back in the day, but she triumphed over it, and, hopefully Ilia will, too. Let's not forget that she faux pas'd a few times before she got it right, but we love her, anyway. She's stronger for having had that experience.

[@janvdb9258]

Oksana wasn't nasty

[@birdtweettweet]

"I remember that conversation at CCD" - Dave I just can't. You take me to places along memory lane from the 90s that I forgot existed 🤣

[@TheSkatingLesson]

[@skatefan9495]

Ilia needs some media training. He comes off as arrogant and overly impressed with himself. A skater like Nathan lets his skating do the talking. When Ilia starts skating consistently clean programs that are more than just jumping demonstrations, he won't need to blow his own horn.

[@Yellowducky665]

I’m honestly not surprised that an 18 year old boy is homophobic, but I really hope he genuinely cleans this up by learning, having conversations and growing to a new understanding of gay folks and especially gay folks in figure skating. If he wants to talk about gay men and PCs, he better learn about Rudy Galindo and his amazing triple axel AND incredible PCs, and how the AIDS crisis’ significantly impacted the sport. There’s a lot for Ilia to learn and I hope he gets around to it.

[@lunalexi2462]

Dave I thought you made an interesting point about regretting how you phrased a commentary on Starr; we all have regrets, or most of us do. I wasn’t offended by Ilia’s comments as a queer person because he’s so young and young people say stupid things. I think that the next while we will see his true character, does he actually regret saying it and regret thinking that way, or is it everyone else who has a problem.

[@KiffiStinkt]

Zhenya literally had her nerves in her back removed how can people expect her to be on the level she was as a teenager … and btw she still has some of her triples so don’t diminish her entirely 😉

[@deborahmcdermott6927]

The Javi documentary was interesting. Wish I could have heard the entire two videos in English. My Spanish is non existent.

[@TheSkatingLesson]

I linked to the website where you can watch with subtitles. Check the description.

[@sallyjean2250]

@@TheSkatingLesson Sorry -- where is the link?

[@benbailey159bb]

​@@sallyjean2250 The three links are in the video description.

[@sallyjean2250]

@@benbailey159bb Thank you -- I didn't scroll down far enough!

[@deborahmcdermott6927]

@@TheSkatingLesson Thank you. I didn't see the links. I will watch again from there!

[@buffydeerrun1494]

I have wondered for a while if Ilia is on the spectrum to some degree. I'm not saying that as a way to excuse him or to criticize. Having family on the spectrum, I see some similarities in the way Ilia communicates and acts. Just a thought.

[@ericachang4752]

If he is, this won't be the last time for him to get into trouble.

[@helenaprout1061]

No. Not a cool comparison to make. Most of my closest friends (and me as well) are autistic and/or otherwise neurodivergent, and they're some of the most accepting, non judgemental and thoughtful people I know. Of course, there will be neurodivergent people in this world who are asses, but *neurodivergent people in general* are not bigots. From what I can tell (and obviously I don't know the kid), Ilia is just entitled and maybe not raised to be respectful and humble.

[@hellsbellsmichelle]

I think Ilia should be getting in touch with Jason, and apologising to him, and perhaps, ask him for help to improve himself.

[@ericachang4752]

It's something grown inside and can't be taught. Jason is precious, but never got recognized.

[@rop888]

He should get in touch with Nathan and learn how to act

[@hellsbellsmichelle]

@@rop888 Ashley Wagner is the Queen of Acting on Ice.

[@rop888]

@@hellsbellsmichelle Well, I meant more on how to behave himself. Nathan, minus one mistake, had to answer many many many questions for years that could get him in hot water and was always diplomatic about it. Jason just isn't in the same position as Ilia is. Ilia's supposed to be leading USFS for men and is doing a poor job at it.

[@Person-mh6xq]

@@rop888 His parents (who are also his coaches) should teach him how to act!! Period.

[@elizabethlockhart8044]

"The Re-Gift" rofl David

[@TheSkatingLesson]

[@benbailey159bb]

With regards to Ilia. I watched it multiple times (it repeats as a short). One of the guys asked "are you gay?" then Ilia paused and then he said the 'I need to say I'm gay to get the components'. My gut is that he may actually be gay and not comfortable saying he is and tried to deflect.

[@Jeremy-wp4yh]

Interesting take, although I wouldn't speculate about anyone's sexuality.

[@Edward-W]

He talked on multiple occasions about the fact that he has a girlfriend on the livestream before the questions about his sexuality came up in the chat. So he clearly isn't strictly same-sex attracted at the very least. It could still be a deflection but due to the exact opposite reason, aka he feels uncomfortable with the idea that someone would assume that he is gay when he isn't, and therefore needs to make a joke about it.

[@lumpyspacecadet]

This is just gross to even speculate about this. His sexuality is NONE of your business.

[@clara_r91]

@@Edward-W somehow people missed that part of ig live

[@shalom968]

Uhhh no.

[@MsTeach3]

I think Ilia’s young and doesn’t think before opening his mouth. My take on the comment is less about his skating and more about proving to his buddies he’s not gay in a sport that’s perceived as being only for gay men. I don’t think it was mean spirited against Jason.

[@ericachang4752]

Even if he didn't mean to dig at Jason, the disaster is there. However, many of us saw how Jason supported him during the season. What he did just sucks.

[@MsTeach3]

@@ericachang4752 I agree, it was a huge mistake on his part., but I think he’s a teenager and Jason is an adult. Jason is one of the most adored skaters in the world. I don’t think it will damage him at all.

[@anthonydolio8118]

In addition to any hurtful element to Ilia's comments, they also just sound like sour grapes. They do not reflect that attitude of a champ or future champ. His father needs to mentor his social development as well as his skating development.

[@kerryperryman3025]

With Ilia I think it is just a maturity thing. Dave and Jonathan comments I agree with you.

[@TheSkatingLesson]

[@alexandralux759]

The best part of my Sunday ❤

[@TheSkatingLesson]

[@JoshuaFazeli]

I wonder if Al Trautwig called Ilia and said: You go, girl! 💅🏻

[@SunflowerCat333]

Ilia made a clumsy mistake. It is a teachable moment. We need to allow people to grow and improve. It’s not right to make sweeping judgements about the character of a young person based on a few stray comments on an extremely informal Instagram live.

[@mprb7051]

He’s been arrogant and self absorbed every single time I’ve heard him speak. This is not a one-time slip.

[@nvsteveg]

​@@mprb7051 EXACTLY right. I'm not a fan of his arrogant attitude AT ALL.

[@naomiberry7901]

I remember a few years ago, I took my kids to the Olympic and paralympic museum in Colorado springs. They had an entire section on doping and what the Olympic movement is doing to try to stop the doping, and how they try to get ahead of the latest ways people are doping... I remember reading it and being like PUHLEASE. What a farce. As long as they let Russia, who haven't changed since Sochi.. their own lab STILL isn't even qualified to be able to test samples how many years later? Nothing will ever change. Doping will keep getting more and more sophisticated and the IOC will keep turning their backs on it for money and good tv. Or give pathetic punishments that don't root out the problem or create change at all. It's so upsetting.

[@РыжаяРыжая-ш1ш]

А что расскажите о громких допинг скандалах американских атлетов?

[@meghana593]

Re Malinin, he is claiming himself as a quadGOD, so he should act as a GOD: love his neighbors, sports, co-workers, competitors...

[@blueclover9918]

Dave I appreciate that you don't take Ilia's statement personally, it adds to your credibility that you speak the language of well-balanced sense.

[@annak9637]

Seems like Malinin IG Live was taken down? Strange to leave the vid with comments on the site but take down the source material which is commented on in that vid. I wonder why was that?

[@TheSkatingLesson]

I recently cleaned through the entire KZbin channel. it was not Ilia specific.

[@languagelearningbyreading2903]

Wonderful discussion! Thank you very much!

[@TheSkatingLesson]

[@Yurito12]

It was honesty an insult to his superiors..

[@mariamrusishvili1724]

My gosh how stupid can a person be to upset Hanyu crazy fans 😂😂😂 Nathan is an amazing kid but I doubt he wanted to complement Yuzuru all the time. He was just smart not to upset huge part of FS fans 😂 P.S. bye bye some of the best Japanese show opportunities

[@lorrainemiddy4011]

well Nathan was very polite and genuinely humble and he always complimented his seniors and fellow competitors and gave full face to Hanyu. malinin is complete opposite, arrogant from the start, and happy to insult his seniors and fellow competitors before he has even suceeded.

[@briseprintaniere3278]

マリニン君の件を通じていかにアメリカ人が羽生さんが嫌いで羽生さんファンが嫌いかということを知ることかできました。そしてアメリカ人が人種差別、国籍差別、民族差別をフィギュアの世界で繰り返してきたことも。

[@samchau3476]

what's crazy is that you think you know these athletes at all as in what they're probably thinking. bs after bs in every sentence.

[@JoshuaFazeli]

Michelle declined because she is perfect like we ALL KNEW.

[@TheSkatingLesson]

💯

[@lummyanya]

I agree about being real and being an a**hole! However, I do think that there is very much that comes from Ilya being Russian. I do not believe that he realizes what it means being a “public figure”. I give him all the credit for being the first person to master quad axel, he will always be remembered for this phenomenal achievement. Let us celebrate him for this and hope that one day he will work on his presentation of himself. Thank you for a good discussion!

[@РыжаяРыжая-ш1ш]

Кто из русских фигуристов допускает более некорректные комментарии чем Эшли Вагнер,Адам Риппон,Мэган Дюамель?Нет,не так...кто вообще из российских фигуристов дал хоть один некорректный комментарий сродни тому что говорила Эшли Вагнер о фигурах российских фигуристок?Я люблю Илью,но наглость и дерзость его имеет скорее американские корни,а не русские.Он просто пошутил на табуированную тему,но в дерзком американском стиле

[@renunit1503]

Honestly I believe that Ilia wont be invited for Stars on Ice again, simply for the huge gay community that is the Skaters, allies, and the audience. Simply work on your skating skills and stop blaming those skaters with better skating skills, that happen to be gay, for your terrible components.

[@kuilaychua6265]

Yuzu is too busy trying to be more creative and innovative for his ice shows.He has no time or interest in dramas😂

[@glaznflip1501]

Sadly, there is an audience for brashness . I wouldn’t be surprise if tries to market this. Let’s see! Milano cortina is 3 years away. I’ll be watching 🍿

[@0c0p0c0]

you can’t get better in something you don’t recognize. What is left is isolated athletic ability, gimmick, mannerism.

[@NIQ31]

Again some insults towards Tutberidze. She had Trusova with weaker components, but we also remember Kostornaya or Valieva. She has a variety of skaters who combine artistic and technical sides.

[@TheSkatingLesson]

They are not the best skaters in terms of skating skills. There are skaters who are far stronger and have much greater variety. If you notice, Valieva really struggled at times with her overall stamina and moving across the ice at times this season.

[@kcesca]

Kostornaia's skating skills had very little to do with ET. She came to camp Tutberidze extremely late, at the beginning of her JGP debut season. Her skating skills were already set by the time she got there, so in a lot of ways she had good skating skills in spite of ET. If anything her skating skills deteriorated from what they were in 2017/18 season.

[@yohanes2034]

​@@kcesca I agree Kosto skating skills was at its best form during junior before she grew. That skating skills was developed before she came to Tut and this is another dig to team Tut because again it shows that they couldn't teach SS as Kosto should have been taught how to adjust after she grew up therefore not losing the SS she showed in junior.

[@blueclover9918]

I was ahead of the trend jumping triples (and after I practiced enough I never fell on them) but I wasn't a confident person at all. I was only confident with my skating, only because I practiced over and over.

[@kfo2520]

Ilia could learn from Nathan’s diplomacy…

[@RedShoes29]

Nathan's older sisters are very educated and quite business savvy. I'm pretty sure them trained him well not to embarrass himself in public.

[@ericachang4752]

still two jumpers

[@r.l.7319]

I like how you take in account how young Ilias is regarding some stupid things he said. I was just thinking: do we always give the young women (who are often even much younger) the same grace and understanding? It seems to me that they are treated as responsible adults at a much younger age, which I find really irritating at times. Just something to maybe to keep in mind four you guys! From a female fan who did a lot of stupid shit I now would do totally differently in her late teens. 😅