This anti-sex trafficking law could end internet freedom

The law impacts sites like Reddit, Craigslist, and Google - and that’s just the start.
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President Trump recently signed into law a set of controversial bills intended to make it easier to cut down on illegal sex trafficking online. Both bills - the House bill known as FOSTA, the Fight Online Sex Trafficking Act, and the Senate bill, SESTA, the Stop Enabling Sex Traffickers Act - have been hailed by advocates as a victory for sex trafficking victims.
But the new law pokes a huge hole in what is generally seen as one of the most important pieces of internet legislation ever created, Section 230 of the 1996 Communications Decency Act. Without this clause exempting websites from liability for the actions of their users, most websites simply couldn’t afford to exist Internet freedom advocates argue that this could lead to further eroding of an open internet - and puts sex workers on the front line.
Vox.com is a news website that helps you cut through the noise and understand what's really driving the events in the headlines. Check out www.vox.com.
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[@Vox]

Read more about how FOSTA could impact the battle for a free internet on Vox.com: bit.ly/2Iaop47

[@celinak5062]

*Eroding Section 230 and increasing companies’ liabilities for content shared on their platforms by their users is likely to ding small players and new startups - not the mega companies such as Facebook, Google, and Twitter. They have billions of dollars, lobbyists, and extensive legal resources behind them.* *“Laws that require automated filtering of content and other types of moderation at scale might be something a giant platform could handle, but it could make it very difficult for a smaller competitor or startup to be successful,” Llanso, from the CDT, told me.*

[@celinak5062]

*“There have clearly been some obvious threats that members of Congress want to do something like FOSTA-SESTA for terrorist content or for hate speech,” said Harmon, from the EFF. “That’s clearly been a theme that has come up again and again: How can Congress shift more liability onto platforms to have them spend more time policing their users’ speech? That is definitely a concern, and I wouldn’t be surprised if you start seeing bills like that.”* *Others say internet freedom advocates who have expressed alarm about a Pandora’s box of Section 230 attacks are getting out over their skis. “When you look at the original purpose of Section 230, I think this amendment is very minor and is not a boding of things to come,” said Mary Leary, a law professor at Catholic University*

[@celinak5062]

*Zeran v. America Online Inc., in 1997:* *Whenever one was displeased with the speech of another party conducted over an interactive computer service, the offended party could simply “notify” the relevant service provider, claiming the information to be legally defamatory. In light of the vast amount of speech communicated through interactive computer services, these notices could produce an impossible burden for service providers, who would be faced with ceaseless choices of suppressing controversial speech or sustaining prohibitive liability.* *“Section 230 is a sword and shield,” said Sen. Wyden in a speech on the Senate floor in March. “It offers protection for liability, but it also gives companies the power - and the responsibility - to foster the sort of internet Americans want to be part of.”*

[@Peace_Guard]

It always amuses me how intellectually shallow people are. So many fanatics questioning selling your body and almost everyone being perfectly fine with selling your mind/brain/soul.

[@blackops2096]

Vox you are being sneaky again, you are acting like this law is meant to go after any and every cite which is used to facilitate illicit activities. This law is meant to go after cites like backpage where it is vastly meant too facilitate such things. Not really a fair comparison saying this is like going after a phone company.

[@angelic8632002]

IT illiteracy strikes again -.- Can we get more younger people in public office please? This is a problem the world over

[@esarts6744]

Simone exactly,

[@celinak5062]

Simone +

[@issaosama4937]

Less religious people into office

[@k.-flynn]

issa osama even religious kids know how the internet works

[@lukeh140]

Exactly

[@rickiex]

So back in college, I had to do a research paper for my graduate thesis. I interviewed 14 ex sex worker and 6 current sex workers. Most of them were independent and some were trafficed. The ones trafficed was saved by Backpage and other sites like it ironically enough. Those social workers uses site like Backpage to locate and help trafficed individuals. This bill basically shut the only gate way social workers had with trafficed girls. Now the only way these girls will be saved is if the cops eventually bust the pimp, which is really low. Even when they bust the pimp they need the girls to vow against the pimp(the guy with all their money) so the girls most likely won't go against the pimp and Jailing sex workers doesn't solve the issue neither, they need mental and fincial help to get them back on their feet. It's a sad day

[@Lucy-fn9rj]

EXACTLY! Plus, a lot of the time, a trafficking victim will come to the police for help and be turned away because of prior prostitution arrests (even though they were trafficked at the time of those arrests)

[@elleboogie]

I wish this could have been added to the video, honestly. My feelings were a bit confused with the information given, but this honestly cleared up why it doesn't seem like such a good idea after all.

[@cinquedea]

Stereotypical J Cole Fan Yeah man. Why be homeless? Just buy a house. Why be a drug addict? Just stop using drugs. No job? Get one. Problem solved.

[@celinak5062]

rickiex +

[@KungFuMonkeyy]

rickiex share your paper? Can we read.

[@baileybaird7329]

Not this again first the FCC with net neutrality and now this?

[@justinidle7086]

-The_Bin_Of_Sin- FC Barcelona won the title what are you talking about

[@baileybaird7329]

Parthion xbl I know, but so did this law.

[@jeremydavis5661]

-The_Bin_Of_Sin- skraa

[@leedoyeon]

J ronnn,while it's true the internet hasn't noticeably changed yet, but the repeal has only been in effect for a little over a week, and you can bet the big telecom companies will be changing things up over time. If they weren't going to change anything, they wouldn't have lobbied so hard to repeal it.

[@frogwad]

J ronnn You’re an idiot

[@Antman4656]

To make things safer for people you legalise and regulate them. The worst thing you can do is make something illegal. Surely We learned this during the prohibition.

[@leshanjordan4577]

Antman4656 👍

[@celinak5062]

Antman4656 that would be the New Zealand Model

[@correctionguy7632]

"We learned this during the prohibition." - oh we did? *on prohibition:* prior to prohibition only men could get served alcohol. which was done in an establishment called a saloon. A large number of men were pissing away their pay checks on alcohol, leaving women and children starving and/or homeless. Prohibition was seen as a way to release the grip that saloons had on men and, by extension, their families. which was why prohibition was pushed through. the focus was saloons and therfor alcohol consumption was never actually made illegal--only the manufacture, transport, and sale of alcohol was illegal. For the population as a whole, the best estimates are that consumption of alcohol declined by 30 percent to 50 percent. Cirrhosis death rates for men were 29.5 per 100,000 in 1911 and 10.7 in 1929. Admissions to state mental hospitals for alcoholic psychosis declined from 10.1 per 100,000 in 1919 to 4.7 in 1928. Arrests for public drunkennness and disorderly conduct declined 50 percent between 1916 and 1922. there was also a reduction in child abuse. Additionally, people in general were significantly drunker than today. In the 19th century, the average drinker drank three times as much as the average drinker today. it wasn't even repealed till after 4 years into the great depression. Repeal, it was argued, would replace the tax revenues foregone under Prohibition, thereby allowing governments to provide relief to suffering families. and that it would put unemployed workers back to work.

[@seasong7655]

How about we make the internet more free and not the opposite?

[@meowmeow5591]

You clearly saw the title and didn't watch the video.... The issue they're talking about is sex trafficking, ignoring the fact the internet is already "free" to anyone with the intellectual capability to Google the words deep web and learn how to get onto it extremely easily, completely unmonitoring forums does nothing to help stop sex trafficking. I'm confused as to your comments relevance to the video, unless of course you saw the title and went "omg they want safe space on internet wah freedom of speech"

[@3p1cand3rs0n]

"With great freedom comes great responsibility." - Gandhi or Spider Man or Jesus or Harry Potter or whatever

[@olleicua]

+

[@Ashkanman]

Wow, what a great idea!!!!

[@ThePartarar]

meow meow if *you* watched the video, you’d notice they said the law had been used to shut down a website for having prostituteson it. Not sex traffickers. Sex workers. Now, while that is technically illegal in the US... lets be honest with ourselves, ok?

[@LashanR]

Land of the free******

[@gluebluerock136]

Lashan freefuck?

[@hijack69]

FreeCunt? FreeDick? FreePuss? FreeShit?

[@elijahorozco2960]

Lashan sex workers ate ilegal duh

[@Axolotine]

It's just after you reach that sweet sweet 100 million dollars in the bank that you become very, very free in america.

[@manhphuc4335]

My thought exactly XD

[@nickc3657]

Whether an intended consequence or not, johns now have MUCH more power in sex work negotiations. Workers will lose their revenue streams because of the bill, and won’t be able to vet clients as accurately or quickly, and so won’t be able to say no to as many risky situations as before without imperiling themselves financially. Forums for men who purchase sex are literally raving about this law, they see it for what it is and they love it. They can get away with way more.

[@zacharyhenderson2902]

That's an interesting take. How do you think this bill prohibits sex workers from vetting clients? Also common do you have links to these forms you're talking about? If so, I highly advise you to send them to the FCC or FBI, and they'll be shut down

[@celinak5062]

Nick C People on tumblr are talking about the possibility of becoming homeless

[@vessessa]

It says in the video why it stops sex workers from vetting clients. In short, they can't rely on their personal ad postings online to find clients. Instead, they have to rely on pimps. Also sex workers were able to find each other and communicate about potential dangers online using such sites.

[@mksabourinable]

Zachary Henderson Not to mention they can screen multiple John's for iffy behaviour/attitudes at a time by talking to them online, meaning they can be solicited for sex by multiple John's from an ad, then talk to them all, and pick the one for that night that seems the best based on how they come of. As well as being able to check their info against what has been shared by other sex workers (like if a certain John is HORRIBLE, they will put out a warning to other sex workers about the person). Etc. But now they have to do it the old fashioned way, which takes more time and effort and gives them less warning. Because they can't get multiple potential John's, they can't check if other sex workers have flagged them, etc. They have to just.... Try to read it in the encounter and hope for the best. Sex worker disappearances are already increasing since this had happened.

[@charlesBenincasa]

Zachary Henderson Zachary Henderson A. Your wrong this Fosta Bill will absolutely cause more sex trafficking and violence. B. This is the beginning to censorship which this country is found on.

[@alex_gaimar]

Americans surely love abbreviations, don't they?

[@nevermore464]

AlexGlushkov 😂😂😂😂😂

[@Sam-lr9oi]

why would you make a law without a catchy acronym? it's not like they're making these laws to help anyone, so they need some redeeming quality

[@Sam-lr9oi]

We should eliminate rider clauses on bills at the federal level, it's ridiculous game playing that goes on. One law for one bill, why is that so crazy?

[@Shadowblade147]

AlexGlushkov Oh yeah man, we use abbreviations for everything.

[@kolelokaram8541]

USA!

[@DeViceCrimsin_]

Ironically an alleged sexual preditor I singing this into law.

[@chinesesparrows]

De ViceCrimsin he can make himself more difficult to trace through pimping

[@kayseek1248]

De ViceCrimsin ???

[@HiAdrian]

preditor -> predator I -> is singing -> signing

[@maximmihailovic6807]

Not here to defend Trump and his idiotism but the key word is 'alleged'. Without being found guilty in the court of law, being alleged means exactly nothing.

[@oofin7868]

No, being alleged means that there is a significant chance that he has committed that crime based on previous evidence.

[@buscentral900]

"And I'm proud ot be an American, where at least I know I'm free..."

[@celinak5062]

Bis +

[@JameZayer]

"Terms and Conditions Apply. No Rainchecks, Nor Refunds. Certain Races Excluded from Offer"

[@obinator9065]

The US is indeed one of the more worse democracies. Spend some time in Switzerland or Norway, Americans, you're gonna see how much your country lacks.

[@alalalala57]

ObinAtor 1 Hell, even in countries where the democracy sucks, at least you're not going to get shot walking by your house or going to school. What a mess.

[@nomadMik]

'... free...ish. Generally less free than Canada, Australia, NZ and most of Europe, but still more free than China and Zambia and Russia and North Korea.' Yeah, great song, Bis! I can totally see why singing it makes you feel so proud!

[@jamestang1227]

The main problem with regulating the internet is the: Freedom vs Safety debate Something that might make you safer could and almost always does infringe on your freedom to do things online, it's kinds like the Wild West but the "safety" concerns aren't as bad (although it can get really bad for some people). For now, I think that the majority of people online prefer freedom as the safety concerns don't usually help them and aren't particularly common but this is just an observation.

[@celinak5062]

James Tang +

[@le0nz]

Don't just with the internet

[@FF-ob7wl]

when it's Freedom v. Safety, i'm always on the side of freedom.

[@k.-flynn]

James Tang ok so what about this bill, which restricts both?

[@cecedoll88]

Most of things we see on the internet already existed before the internet. Now sex workers get to go back to standing on corners and being pimped slapped. Now child predators can mollest freely with out a chance of being caught online. And sex traffickers will have it easier too since their victims definitely won't be able to reach out for help in non obvious way. Way to take us back 30yrs. There will only be more silenced victims. But that's what he wants because he couldn't silence the sex worker he decided to sleep with. I've never been into politics but I'm officially on the hate trump train.

[@lenniepennie4425]

Another reason for more wide spread use of TOR

[@celinak5062]

lennart pennaertz +

[@princessjello]

+

[@x87-64]

+

[@jayfawn8478]

TOR is painfully slow to used...not recommended

[@knecht6974]

Well, you can use TOR all you want as long as the sites arent pushed into the darkweb

[@lukemmurphy795]

Only in the land of the free!

[@glossygloss472]

Irish are the peasants of europe

[@lukemmurphy795]

Color Pop Whatever makes you feel better.

[@midas8009]

Color Pop Says someone who's most likely never gone outside of their country

[@vivigesso3756]

go enjoy your sharia law.

[@glossygloss472]

Scrunch Meehehe I’ve been to Europe two times and Mexico once. So I have no idea what you’re to talking about.

[@indiragardener3393]

Well good luck America, peace out. From Australia

[@meowmeow5591]

Indira Gardener .....your comment implies Australia isn't having the same issues? All your information must come from social media is you have that "omg America is the worst lol" attitude and think anything is different here....

[@ozeppeo]

Well good luck America, peace out. From Europe

[@indiragardener3393]

meow meow Dude check the stats, in America you guys have had around 1,600 mass shootings yet you can still buy a hand gun in Aldi and you think Australia has issues lol, we haven't had a mass shooting in 22 years, peace out. From now laughing Australia

[@watermelon1470]

meow meow hasn't been outside america. lol

[@dantea7475]

Lol you live in a Chinese puppet state

[@yanusanders7686]

Prostitution needs to be legal. It's just like cannabis and abortions: no matter if legal or illegal, there is the same amount of people doing it. The difference is that when it's legal, you can make it less dangerous for people, provide help, and prevent people to have contact which actual criminals

[@yanusanders7686]

Dwight Schrute that's completely different because someone else is being harmed. I was talking about things that are illegal that you can do to yourself.

[@celinak5062]

Dwight Schrute Norwegian prisons and therapy

[@SevastianNandez]

land of free BTW

[@SciencewithKatie]

I thought sex work was illegal in the US? Is it legal in some states?

[@savagedragon79]

Science with Katie just one state. Nevada

[@ntwadumelamata7785]

Science with Katie In Nevada. I thought it was legal out there.

[@hank4936]

It is illegal, so I don't understand this video. They're basically complaining that they can't continue to carry out their illegal "work" as easily as they could before.

[@utsavkhera7398]

Online nudity is allowed even if it's prostitution essentially because people can claim they're actors being paid for being on camera

[@Yamazaki112]

It's because it affects white women.

[@SD-tj5dh]

Legalise it Tax it Protect the rights of the workers Rights to premesis and security Health access for all workers. Crime no longer exists Spread diseases declines, Drug use declines Abuse of workers declines Trafficking greatly reduced. Make the crime a source of tax revenue and the criminals no longer have leverage.

[@zacharyhenderson2902]

Scott Dann normally I agree with you, but that's not the case here. No matter what you do you're still going to have sex traffickers, because it will always be cheaper and MUCH more lucrative to have foreign women and children be prostitutes than having only adult American women do it.

[@celinak5062]

Scott Dann in a kinder world

[@celinak5062]

Scott Dann rip Terry Pratchett

[@celinak5062]

Zachary Henderson and there isn't other ways to help those people?

[@SD-tj5dh]

Zachary Henderson I agree with you also, Just as other things would be such as drugs. But the average Joe on the street won't go to an illegal place if a safe legal alternative is available.

[@Axioanarchist]

Its SOPA PIPA all over again.

[@chinesesparrows]

Axioanarchist +net nonneutrality

[@celinak5062]

Axioanarchist + And worriers of innocence

[@monster860]

Except this time, there's no Aaron Swarz to mobilize us out.

[@PasscodeAdvance]

Ikr

[@evangrim7267]

Can the next president even fix what Trump is doing?

[@prodigalson6166]

NotThatBad you mean like the way Trump ended the Korean War without firing a shot? The way he brought jobs back into this country? I suppose you think stopping child sex rings is wrong to? WTF?

[@ozeppeo]

Haha, yeah the Korean leaders didn't meet bc of Trump, they met instead of Trump. Did you even watch the Video? It makes the workers more vulnerable to traffickers. It's the oldest business in the world, just decriminalize it.

[@celinak5062]

ozeppeo they need unions and lobbyists

[@celinak5062]

Shawn Puebla so the winter Olympics had nothing to do with it?

[@vettech_]

it will take a long time

[@BakedUp]

This country is outrageous.

[@ramone_2gdw55]

As a right winger, even though i hate the democrat party for political correctness i do support legalizing prostitution, as well as marijuana. The problem is that the majority of republicans want to keep it decriminalized and that just piss me off. It just makes me realize that both sides of the political spectrum don't have perfect ideologies but rather have a misunderstanding of each other on issues occurring in America that it scatters like puzzle pieces.

[@Ankudamurderer]

About time someone started talking about this.

[@SanvelloSerapiega]

Anku Jim Jefferys was covering this well before vox

[@5pctLowBattery]

Newsbroke recently had a video related to this: Will legalizing sex work protect women?

[@k.-flynn]

5%LowBattery is every comment on that video "yes"?

[@5pctLowBattery]

K. Flynn no. However, the top comment is “Yasss l! THANK you

[@k.-flynn]

5%LowBattery close enough

[@luzgallegos6779]

The handmaid’s tale world

[@cecedoll88]

Luz Gallegos This is so true and so scary

[@lipidi1542]

"I'm litterally shaking"

[@cecedoll88]

This is actually sad. This bill will cause more victims of sexual abuse and the silence of others. I feel he created this because he couldn't silence the sex worker he decided to sleep with. Which is very sick and terrifying.

[@askmemum]

Under his eye...

[@cecedoll88]

Now it's illegal to get an abortion in a certain state. It's happening.

[@grimmgoosegoose216]

Hey Vox, thanks for the video and I am so so sorry for the comments that are about to follow

[@celinak5062]

Grimm GooseGirl +

[@andysutherland4731]

This is one of the most 1984 things to happen in recent years

[@celinak5062]

Andy Sutherland patriot act

[@paisleybatz2386]

Honestly, i would give up my right to the free and open internet to stop sex trafficking happening. This is disgusting and needs to be stopped.

[@DeepValueOptions]

they have taken down many sites already. Backpages, Spahunters, etc

[@rdftw69]

Poor backpages

[@hank4936]

Isn't that a good thing though??

[@SanvelloSerapiega]

Hank No 3:50

[@DeepValueOptions]

no because it wont directly affect sex trafficking.. only pulls down these illegal businesses that are sending money to their families back home..

[@chinesesparrows]

Hank supply drops, but how about the demand? What did strict drug laws do to this country?

[@1gavalanche1]

I'm certain that the GOP is aware of these problems, and I'm certain that their answer to them is, "Just don't be a sex worker." Life is so simple for a conservative mind.

[@zacharyhenderson2902]

Gavalanche what the hell are you talking about? It's simple for everybody. Prostitution is already illegal, so this bill does not change the legality of that at all

[@celinak5062]

Gavalanche +

[@draculatod3559]

If only any news organization had covered it at all before it passed

[@celinak5062]

Dracula Tod +

[@mrdeadbush7682]

Pornhub live cams: Say what?

[@erniewaterson5833]

pervert

[@alalalala57]

Ernie Waterson And you're here...why?

[@StealthBoi.]

"Sesta" in Hindi means Low Price. 😂

[@Laquia]

Wow

[@jackjowett902]

Three things in the world that only exist ideologically: “Freedom” “Privacy” “America”

[@danyala.1659]

This is why cryptocurrencies are undervalued. People dont realize the value of a decentralized internet.

[@Ghosteriz]

Danyal A. There will no decentralized thingy exists if human exist. Oh sorry, I mean if capitalism exist.

[@luisenriquez5495]

Danyal A. Its not decentralized its centralized by crypto miners

[@Cooltaha]

Cryptocurrencies would only be useful if they're more regulated. A volatile currency is not how humans like to work.

[@Rompelstaump]

Smithy Chris - I feel sorry for you. People who believe that capitalism can exist without giving rise to tyrannical rule haven't been paying attention to the past 100 years. As stated previously on the Economic Update podcast by R.D.Wolff, capitalism always morphs in a perverse version of itself. We live in an inverted totalitarianism because our public democratic institutions have been corrupted by the capitalist NeoLiberal Elites . This is where the leaders of industry cut out competition by corrupting the political system, then they turn on the people's rights. Eventually, capitalism turns first world countries into third world hell holes by exploiting the majority of the population the serve the powerful few. Educate yourself before you lose everything to this system that you so willingly defend with your loyalty.

[@leedoyeon]

Some cryptocurrencies are most definitely overvalued though, because their usefulness as a currency is extremely limited, so these overvalued cryptos hold value almost entirely as highly volatile investment vehicles. People who overhype the benefits of decentralized currencies do not realize the value of currency regulations. There are reasons governments exist, after all, because a lot of things are useless without collaborative effort by a large community.

[@ericcartmann]

Move servers outside of the USA. Clearly the USA is no longer a competitive place for websites to call home.

[@LommeMann1]

«Sex worker and teacher»

[@jeanbrinette]

Sigurd Ryan Why not?

[@3mar00ss6]

Jean B yea why not 😂

[@meowmeow5591]

...where's the confusion?

[@SanvelloSerapiega]

She is an educator on sex sociological stuff so it isn't exactly weird

[@MrAsh1100]

mega_beast_001 Asking the real questions here

[@Peace_Guard]

It always amuses me how intellectually shallow people are. So many fanatics questioning selling your body and almost everyone being perfectly fine with selling your mind/brain/soul.

[@bonrind]

lets be honest, this is also to stop sites like piratebay.

[@celinak5062]

RAIN +

[@technologyproductions-ye3px]

It won't tho no this law isn't made to stop them the digital copyright act of 1998 was supposed to stop piracy but it didn't

[@pinkmapviolin]

Sex work/prostitution needs to be legalized. There’s no real reason beyond religious or moral conservatism that it should be illegal anyway (if there are 2 consenting adults exchanging services, no one is hurt). Plus, the way it is now makes it dangerous for sex workers because they have to work underground and can't call the cops if anything goes wrong

[@Goombario37]

Hey I'm at work you could give a warning before putting up nsfw pictures in the middle of people talking thank you

[@woowyer]

"This law... could end internet freedom"? This might be the most sensationalized KZbin video title I have ever seen, holy hell.

[@celinak5062]

Kristoffer Norberg have you read their article

[@Ttthestoryteller]

The idea that people are okay with human trafficking as long as some people get to be paid for sex is insane

[@hoagie911]

You are covering a story which is at least partly about sex trafficking, yet only spoke to sex workers. As the law may hurt sex worker's business, it is no surprise they are against it. But for the same reason, they have a bias to claim it won't help reduce trafficking. So you should have spoken to victims of trafficking, or experts without a clear financial bias, to cover the story fairly. Your biased coverage of this topic is doubly disappointing given how you have railed against the biased coverage of other outlets in the past.

[@Lucy-fn9rj]

Actually, many sex workers are more knowledgeable about trafficking than so-called "anti-trafficking" organizations. If someone was being forced to do your job, wouldn't you be invested in helping them?

[@Lucy-fn9rj]

Also, I actually would have liked them to have spoken to an actual sex trafficking survivor. Many are against this bill, and I really think their imput would be especially compeling. Don't see the point in talking to a trafficker or lawyer, though. (And these people aren't talking about losing just their livelihood, they're talking about losing their safety)

[@celinak5062]

Lucy maybe it was a time issue. Hope they have a follow up video.

[@rawmemalek8450]

Very good point

[@veritasetaequitas983]

Legalize prostitution and regulate it like Nevada or Amsterdam, Johns would rather go to a legit business than some shady motel that might have trafficked people. When you take someone on a date your essentially paying for the opportunity at sex.

[@LesMiserables999]

To be fair though, much of the sex work on these websites were illegal, so the first problem that needs to be fixed is to make the work legal

[@celinak5062]

Wrinkled Pugoda +

[@TheConfinedObserver]

This outrage is nice and all, but it would have helped a lot more if it was as strong before this stuff started to pass. Now, pealing this back is going to be such a headache. We'll sooner legalize prostitution itself. Do things in real life that are illegal online

[@celinak5062]

FallingIntoBucketsAlot +

[@pondererofpointlessdreams5029]

Better start reading the Terms of Service now or I’ll be in trouble

[@missironmouse]

They should make it legal, you know why? Because then they’d be out in the open and we’d know who they are. Do you know how hard it is to work at a day spa doing massage therapy or skin care and getting a ton of perverted phone calls and sexually harassed? When you say no to them and explain the difference between a ‘masseuse’ and ‘massage therapist ‘ they get so nasty! So yes, make it legal and put them out in the open.

[@Lucy-fn9rj]

Decriminalized (it's different than legalized), but yeah! I agree

[@celinak5062]

missironmouse and unionised

[@Jaxck77]

That last statement is big. Nudes being posted online could be considered "illegal" under this law, exposing a huge number of people to unfair criminal persecution.

[@zacharyhenderson2902]

Jack Taylor no they can't

[@bannafeet123]

When are they going to figure out that some laws harm more then they help.

[@celinak5062]

Matthew Tiburcio +

[@JordanBeagle]

Murica "This isn't a nuanced or difficult issue, just make it all illegal and don't worry about supply and demand! Just like we do with drugs and it works great!..."

[@Sora-Mi]

It’s going to cause more chaos just wait for it

[@hank4936]

Or if people can't do it so easily on the internet the amount of people turning to that kind of "work" will decrease, and isn't that a good thing?

[@meowmeow5591]

Hank ....except That's not how anything works. You force it underground, and the women and girls involved get raped and abused and have no where to go for help. You cut off access to abortion clinics, desperate women seek other unsafe ways and die of internal bleeding from at home abortions - happening all over the world. When you criminalise drugs and cut off access to pill testing, safe injection rooms and anti addiction treatments, you force it underground, create a flourishing industry of drug crimes where vulnerable people suffer incredible violence When they banned alcohol, what happened? People just made it at home, prices sky rocketed and crimes increased. An industry grew around illegal alcohol as did violence, incarceration and abuse. Making it harder for women to have consensual sex work safely won't stop consensual sex work, it will increase unsafe sex work and lead to the unchecked and unpolices rape and murder of women and children - we already have that now. Just The stigma alone acts as a barrier, what do you think adding another access barrier will do? All it does it contribute to the already flourishing sex slave trade.

[@ozeppeo]

Thanks meow meow, couldn't have said it better.

[@maurobianchin8862]

The video is pretty well done and measured in its tone but that title is a bit too sensationalist, it almost sounds like the title of a conspiracy theory video: "this could end X" is quite strong, "this could damage | hurt X" is usually better with "infringe | jeopardize" being decent alternatives sometimes.

[@totalwartimelapses6359]

click bait

[@celinak5062]

Mauro Bianchin +

[@Sam-lr9oi]

I'd recommend everyone should listen to the April 18th episode of Vox's Today, Explained podcast that goes into more detail of what the effects of this bill could be.

[@celinak5062]

Sam +

[@liamcollins9183]

Under New Zealand Law, its a notice board analogy. The website isn't immediately responsible, but if they're notified they're obligated to remove the material in a reasonable period of time. As long as they do that, they're not liable.

[@GTXDash]

1:31 Why are the pupils moving but not the iris?

[@balharher7365]

Dude stop giving sociopaths powerful spaces.

[@teagenbarnett6269]

Alright I’m commenting on this as I watch it. Phone companies wouldn’t have to monitor calls because FOSTA only makes them liable if they knowingly allow something illegal to happen. If they received a tip about a potential traffickers number and didn’t act in it, then they’re liable, they don’t have to watch every phone line.

[@teagenbarnett6269]

And I don’t see anything wrong with shutting down backpage. It’s definitely more dangerous to sexworkers. Many a worker have had their lives endangered because there is a site that puts al of their personal info online

[@teagenbarnett6269]

Not to mention that there have been countless cases in which adults to seem to appear in consensual, I’ll say “sex work scenarios” to be pc, are actually being forced or trafficked. Not all pornstars are doing their work because they want to

[@teagenbarnett6269]

Changing the internet as we know it? The only people you claimed are hurt are sex workers, a community that shouldn’t even be damaged.

[@teagenbarnett6269]

What about the kids that are taken advantage of by pedophiles? What about the thousands of people who are extorted, found and kidnaped, abused, or anything else that happens everyday. Really not enough evidence to convince me that this is somehow bad.

[@celinak5062]

Teagen Barnett right I hope you're correct. else 2chan and ao3 will go mad

[@tanmaykitkat]

That's why we need decentralized internet. Go Pied Piper.

[@chummychimchim]

*When you have a Long face don't choose a hairstyle that makes it even longer....*

[@elleboogie]

Chummy Chimchim This needed to be said!

[@libbybollinger5901]

Lauren Perkins did it though?

[@evanwilliams432]

Chummy Chimchim when you have a stupid screen name and profile picture, don't make comments to make you look even dumber.

[@vessessa]

some people like to embrace and highlight their characteristics tho

[@m1rr0rdemon]

vessessa there is a diffece between exadurating and higighting

[@Sauske2101]

It's a degrading shame that we lose our rights on a constant basis in this country sure we are "free".. but now it's become a animal pen where everything we do is at the mercy of the farmer...

[@rihannaphillips2733]

Glad im not american (no offence americans)

[@celinak5062]

Rihanna Phillips +

[@TheVideoChain]

If You are part of the free world and value that ...you ARE more American than millions of US citizens....in the sense that you either perpetuate, appreciate or benefit from American ideals. ....you just probably aren't aware of it.. ......... when the world was encroaching on your democratic nation. ....who cleared the smoke for you to continue to govern yourself ....?.....don't be short sighted.... and do not let your indoctrinated national pride blind you. .......

[@alexp9621]

The span of this is affecting a lot of folks outside the states.

[@VeronicaGorositoMusic]

Did you know that America is way bigger than the USA?

[@ErykaSoleil]

Yeeeeeeaaaaaah . . . can ya'll just not look at us for a little bit while we sort this out? We're trying to decide whether we'd like to lean more towards the future of Star Trek, or the one in Blade Runner and/or Equilibrium. We don't do moderation very well as a society, so I figure it'll be one or the other by the time we get to 2020.

[@marvinyoung7545]

Playing Devils Advocate: if we impede communication between offenders, isn't their ability to network just as impeded as law enforcement 's ability to track, prevent, and prosecute?

[@celinak5062]

Marvin Young that's exactly what's happening

[@celinak5062]

Marvin Young a lot of them are actually asking for help on tumblr if you were curious

[@vessessa]

Can't they take their networking underground? I assume these networks are already well established. It'd just make it harder for law enforcement to find them. On the contrary, if there are strict laws on legalized prostitution that screens all the sex workers, then it would make it easier for law enforcement to bust any illegal (trafficked) activity. In other words, they should build the barrier closer to the brothel rather than putting the barrier somewhere far away that impedes all sex workers.

[@marvinyoung7545]

vessessa that logic is sound, but I wonder how actual law enforcement feels about the internet as an aide for catching bad actors

[@vessessa]

I wonder as well. I imagine it can be very frustrating to see clear evidence on forums/sites but be unable to find the source. I honestly think it'd be easier for them to physically arrive at the scene and check that all members involved are registered workers. But that's a very naive way of me to view this problem since they can't just go busting down every door and checking that everything going on inside is legal. I don't think legalizing prostitution is a perfect, or the only, solution, but I do think that the law they designed here is just a wimpy and backwards way of trying to solve the problem without doing something more ballsy and effective.

[@rodrigobasoaltoc.1743]

Rename the channel to american losing rights.

[@zacharyhenderson2902]

Rodrigo Basoalto C. Name one way, specifically, Americans are losing rights because of this bill

[@davidalex565]

It's the standard, "make it look like we care by putting up a bill that sounds good to people but that only hurts the people it's trying to help because no research was done..." Got to make it look like you are doing something even if it only hurts everyone...

[@celinak5062]

davidalex565 +

[@JikookLove]

Lol I noticed because craglist deleted the seeking things

[@3hpleft]

These sites have factilated sex trafficking for years and have done nothing. Although this bill goes about it the wrong way these website need to be liable in someway for doing close to nothing about sex trafficking on their sites for years.

[@kevrev0]

Land of the free?

[@raney150]

Why didn't anyone make a big deal BEFORE it passed? Seriously?

[@StealthBoi.]

I don't understand why Donald Trump did this I taught Donald Trump loved strippers.

[@manhphuc4335]

Geras Al-Aqras Yes, so he can keep his people away from having legal sex while he molested and abuse women. Ever read 1984? One of the thing they removed was consensual sex.

[@zacharyhenderson2902]

manh phuc what the hell are you talking about? Nobody is stopping you or anyone else from having legal sex

[@manhphuc4335]

Yes nobody is and in fact the whole video ISN'T about having legal sex, I'm only reply to the the comment above to support OP comment. He said "Because he cares for his people" which in the video stated that Donald Trump signed the law through because he wants to stop sex trafficking which is false because it actually makes law enforcers harder to detect sex trafficking.

[@zacharyhenderson2902]

manh phuc it really doesn't make it that much harder to detect sex trafficking though. In fact, I honestly can't think of any way this law makes it harder to detect sex trafficking, at all. Maybe you do though. Could you please enlighten me?

[@ExplodoPantsuit]

FOSTA barely mentions sex trafficking, outside of its name. It targets prostitutes. It specifically uses the word "Prostitution" and *only* the word "prostitution" - so far as I have been able to determine, what constitutes prostitution (and its legality) is determined by the state, not the federal government. The law does not apply in any case where prostitution is legal. It definitely affects prostitutes who are working illegally, and that's a problem that needs addressing. Where FOSTA becomes dangerous to sex-workers (and every-day joes) *beyond* prostitution, is in that it is scaring websites into shutting down segments of their service. Backpage was shut down because there was *evidence* found by a senate investigation that they covered up child sex trafficking on their website. The website's disappearance affects sex-workers, but it wasn't without cause. I expect Craigslist, and even Google have carried out their restrictions because they are aware that they could be prosecuted for failing to hinder sex-traffickers using their service that they were aware of. There is no mention of sex work outside of prostitution in the Bill. SESTA amends legislation that uses the more vague term "commercial sex act", but it was a phrase that already existed in the legislation, since the 90s, at the latest. I would love to see less alarmist rhetoric about misinterpretations of the bills, and a more informative explanation of who the bills are actually meant to affect, and who they certainly will affect, rather than who they might affect if someone misreads the legislation.

[@bcgartluver]

People upset because they can't sell themselves or pay to get laid lmao that's sad af

[@Domepeezy]

Cass Thompson you’re right that’s really what I boils down to however they did make an interesting point I don’t believe they should’ve held websites responsible for it because it’s like hold cell phone providers responsible for illegal conversations. That pretty crazy when you think about it

[@celinak5062]

Cass Thompson it puts desperate people at risk of homelessness and makes social workers life even more difficult

[@bibubbletea]

it's illegal and arguably wrong but that just means they can't make sure their clients are safe to go do their sex work. You think they're going to stop just because it's not online they're still going to do sex work but it's going to be harder to catch human traffickers because many are caught because of traces online and it's going to be less safe. For more information about the people against this bill watch sailor j's video how mind your bidness. It makes some really good points about how this bill doesn't address the problem in the slightest and not only makes things a living nightmare for sex workers but will make things a living nightmare for other internet users as well.

[@veritasetaequitas983]

It's the oldest profession in the world and the people to decry it are the most likely to use it. Let people do what they want. It's none of your business. America is supposed to be about the freedom to do what you want as long as it doesn't infringe on the rights of others.

[@correctionguy7632]

Veritas et Aequitas - that was however over a century ago, get over the past

[@Jillian1stJohn3-9-10]

Children need to be protected.

[@andeve3]

"small government" lmao

[@zacharyhenderson2902]

Andreven WTF? What does this have to do with expanding government? Because it does nothing of the sort

[@celinak5062]

Andreven Naomi Wolf

[@Penumbras1919]

Only if you are calling specific prostitution related numbers

[@Di.king.of.di.jungle]

U know it's going to be bad when u see Trump

[@elizabethroman7153]

I think the sponsors of this bill wanted to help but never thought of asking the people who are involved in this conflict HOW to help. This happens a lot in building policies. Hopefully, they fix the bill.

[@dianagamez76]

Good information thanks for sharing.

[@novafawks]

There's other sites to do this in a MUCH better manner. Backpage was RAMPANT with child trafficking. This isn't as big an issue as it seems if you look in to it, it affects a small set of people.

[@zacharyhenderson2902]

Nova Fawks haha "small" set of people. Good pun.

[@bearyboy9088]

What's a "Sex worker and teacher"?

[@TheAjstyle65]

Beary Boy some learning with earning.

[@UnidentifiedAerialPhenomena0]

someone who is a techer and a sex worker. very busy

[@bearyboy9088]

So she teaches sex or something?

[@threadbearr8866]

Well you see the word "and" implies they have two occupations. One of which is a sex worker *and* one of which is a teacher. What does she teach? Who knows. What kind of sex work does she do? Who knows.

[@watermelon1470]

god some people are so dumb. lol

[@hagoryopi2101]

I'm a libertarian that leans conservative, and I normally support Trump, but crap like this gets my blood boiling. You can't make a website owner liable for the crimes that take place on their website, unless they are actually aiding and abetting. That's like making the US government liable for every crime that take place on US soil. They just moderate and maintain the space, they could never hope to control everything that happens there, especially when it's so large like Craigslist or Backpage, or less directly KZbin or Google. Imagine if people started using KZbin comments or G+ for "sex trafficking" as a joke to try and attack these websites! Those that commit crimes and those that intentionally help criminals should be the only ones liable for a crime. This also hurts more than just the website owners. As the video said, sex workers are hurt (although I think sex work should be legal countrywide anyways). But also people seeking casual sex, like it was on Craigslist. Without that, anyone seeking sex, for money or just for fun, cannot do so as safely anymore. A major form of communication and advertisement has been removed for them. Which hurts sex workers, casual sex seekers, and also victims of trafficking. It's much easier to catch traffickers when they use a website, than when they don't. When the website is not an option, they're all going to be harder to find. And I don't think a law like FOSTA is going to keep traffickers from being able to network. It's not going to hurt them nearly as much as the other innocent groups who are harmed. I applaud Trump's success in the fight against sex trafficking ever since he got into office, but this is not the way to continue that. This bill needs to be repealed, because there's no way the core concept could be edited into something viable. It's a terrible bill.

[@voravincii]

So now we’re defending the *THOTS!?*

[@hank4936]

I know right, doesn't make sense at all.

[@loumonte658]

so you can't have your taco and eat too?

[@vargrhelsing8042]

Ourselves first, since this law suppose to only hit them, but turn out it hit everyone.

[@meowmeow5591]

Who are the thots here, the articulate women defending their right to freedom of speech and advocating for the basic human right to have consensual sex without being attacked and vilified Or the women and children that are being trafficked and raped that those same women are also trying to protect?

[@vargrhelsing8042]

shhh my friend, its a meme. Always assume the people that posted it have rather basic moral understanding. Pass it and move on, you cant change a person moral understanding over a KZbin comment.

[@mta1567]

“ The pavement of hell was built with good intentions “ - This quote is more relevant more than ever before.

[@themanwiththeplan1401]

Land of the free**************************************************

[@vaav55]

Why can't people understand, sex trafficking and sex work are two different things. Both might be illegal but one was forced away from their families... I stand by this law.

[@jessetorres8738]

Yeah, I'm here with around 1,000 views and less than 100 comments.

[@funnr]

Jesse Torres cool....

[@sanan33]

Jesse Torres give me ur address i will send you your trophy.

[@sanan33]

the Swedes No his chance has been quadruple after this comment.

[@sqweed653]

0:20 OMG WE FOUND A WORTHY FOREHEAD COMPETETOR FOR JACKSFILMS!

[@gook9225]

Oh no, Trump.

[@napoleonibonaparte7198]

The US can omit anything related to freedom and liberty in their constitution and anthem

[@nermind02]

USA...

[@vessessa]

1 year later: law enforcement arrives at my door saying "you posted some messages that weren't anti-prostitution about a year ago" and arrests me.

[@Jack-gu4fc]

Reply All has a pretty interesting podcast episode about this too, if anyone's interested

[@Thakidpuma]

Jack is the episode recent or older

[@Mr.D.C.]

I don't see how making websites responsible for sex trafficking is in any way going to restrict broader internet freedoms...

[@harrymoore2287]

OOF

[@InteractiveIdea]

What's funny... They only shut down backpage and Craigslist, but other sites for hookers just re-branded and went international and still present. And this law passes without any accomplishments, but opens door to other restrictions.

[@ncooty]

Must pass such laws for to appease Sky Man, who grows angry when you do things with your naughty bits! This is why we elect GOP reps, right?

[@zacharyhenderson2902]

ncooty what are you talking about?

[@celinak5062]

Zachary Henderson christians

[@zacharyhenderson2902]

Celina k What, what about Christians?

[@ncooty]

+Zachary Henderson I mean that such laws do not seem to derive from or be substantiated by empirical evidence related to public health and safety. Rather, they seem to be based on religious beliefs that certain activities (especially those related to sexuality) particularly agitate a supreme being. Therefore, from their point of view, it is appropriate to impose such restrictions of liberties because it is morally right according to their religious beliefs (which is how theocracies work).

[@ncooty]

+TreeHuggerUnlimited Can you explain what you mean by "deserve"?

[@kevkokurz]

Remember when twitter was angry at Bernie Sanders for not supporting these bills?

[@celinak5062]

Kevin Kurz what a surprise, he's wiser then twitter

[@David_Me825]

This video clearly states: buy Apple

[@3mar00ss6]

Deividas Melnikas what why 😂

[@chinesesparrows]

Your apps are more important than storage encryption

[@NyantoDesu]

Deividas Melnikas A VPN is cheaper

[@3mar00ss6]

ObviousBaitYetYouStillFellForIt Apple sheeps don't know how to use a real phone and you are telling them to use vpn they can barely open the browser 😂

[@owgirl]

Wait did you just sell me $500 worth of Apple Stock or AppleS?

[@TroubleinZION]

This is stupid. How dumb does he think we are? Politicians:” let’s associate a freedom the people have with something they feel strongly about. Once we’ve confused them, we can rid them of said freedom while gaining more control.” Perfect plan of manipulation.

[@SeanJesrani]

Noooooooooo. My Freeeeeedom!!!!!!! I didn't actually watch the video yet so don't take this comment seriously

[@miralhanda8692]

Can the Trump administration and the Republican controlled House and Senate get anything right?!?......... I don't think so