This Broken PC was Such a PAIN to Fix

[@sku2007]

guys be careful with weird placed HDMI ports! sometimes they are used for a completly different purpose and even may carry some voltage which would destroy the monitor!

[@sku2007]

Or PCIE slots in servers which require a specific riser card, craft computing had destroyed a HP server mobo 1-3 years ago

[@zeendaniels5809]

Indeed. The best bet would be trying to pull some info about the motherboard to check the purpose of the port before connecting anything.

[@WillFuI]

I feel like I u found that out the hard way

[@RickRick-sw7mb]

Good to know.

[@jonjohnson2844]

What are they for then?

[@MarcoGPUtuber]

Hardware Haven fixes my servers through his videos

[@JamieStuff]

I started my homelab with a 4th gen version of this computer that I picked up for $75, ready to plug in. A simple Debian system running Plex, with a bunch of external USB hard drives attached. That sparked multiple rounds of GAS (Gear Acquisition Syndrome)...

[@richardnpaul_mob]

Hey don't put yourself down. Most competent people learn just through mucking about with hardware. I've been doing it since the late 90s.

[@neufxtrois]

The i7-8700 is still such a solid chip. I have one running a ZFS array and a ton of docker containers without breaking a sweat.

[@mal2ksc]

Unfortunately, this particular pizza oven of a case can't adequately deal with an i5-8500 (75W TDP, and what I have) without hacking in more cooling, so I shudder a bit to think how often it throttles and spools up the jet engine with anything faster.

[@SmithKerona]

@@mal2ksc The i5-8500 is the actually same chip as i7-8700 but with SMT (hyper-threading) disabled. It has the same wattage as the i7-8700 which is 65watts. Therefore the system shown in video should handle i5-8500 with out any problem.

[@SmithKerona]

@@mal2ksc I actually own this same system with an i5-8400 installed on it which is also the same as the i5-8500 but out vPro.

[@pieter7416]

I recently discovered through the M75q gen 2, another Lenovo SFF, that these motherboards are actually mATX and can be made to work with standard ATX power supplies through the use of a 24 pin to Lenovo adapter. The only thing different from mATX is the front I/O portion (USB ports, power switch), which sticks out a little outside of the mATX 244 x 244 mm standard. The mounting holes are in the same spot as standard mATX. You can observe this at 23:45 As the M75q gen 2 supports ECC memory after a BIOS update (when paired with a Ryzen CPU or Ryzen Pro APU, which these often come with), I think it could be a very interesting option as a homeserver when bought used.

[@mal2ksc]

As far as I know they're the same motherboards used in the full tower "T" series cases.

[@mal2ksc]

Also the power button is right next to those ports but it is NOT attached to the motherboard but instead is mounted to the case -- so it's easily replaceable when you do a transplant.

[@jumpmaster5279]

Bro started Easter egging 3d printed stuff That kill a watt stand was cool This can be a series where computer systems visit hardware haven.

[@otter-pro]

I noticed it too. Wanted to print one for myself, now.

[@sjoer]

The labeling is clear there! CLR_CMOS is the left one, then the chip between the pin headers is U90 and the right header is ME_DIS which is the Management Engine Disable!

[@sjoer]

The HDMI port is probably for ThunderBolt video injection?

[@christopherwood12]

That far right ram stick was slightly open at the top

[@MexxiUK]

Noticed it immediately.

[@jonjohnson2844]

For a moment I thought you were suggesting the RAM stick had a questionable political ideology!

[@MrPir84free]

@@jonjohnson2844 He didn't say left..

[@christopherwood12]

@@MexxiUK I used to be a computer repair guy in my early working life and stuff like that always sticks out to you. Same with if something weird is going on with the wiring, cpu clamps etc. That being said I still have my original pc from one of my old jobs with a i7 2600 in it and it requires me to pull out the mobo power cable to just boot it. Feels like I’m jumpstarting a car or something

[@MexxiUK]

@@christopherwood12 awesome 😎👍🏼

[@ewasteredux]

It's funny how many problems get solved by time and perseverance. Great job!

[@BrunodeSouzaLino]

Another option you can try when the PC doesn't turn on is discharging the capacitors. Without the PC being plugged into the wall, press and hold the power button for 20-40 seconds. This can also be performed on laptops.

[@AlejandroRodolfoMendez]

Laptop needs to be unplugged from the battery tho

[@pharmdiddy5120]

Great video looking at your process troubleshooting. Feel like I've had many similar mysteries cobbling together spare parts

[@jonjohnson2844]

Thanks for appreciating the power draw figures; electrons aren't as expensive as they were in Europe a few years ago but still maybe double what we're used to...I've seen Americans be proud of "low power" systems that draw almost 200 watts...that's about £60/$70 a month, too much for a tinkerbox that you have to leave on all the time because you gave a few friends Plex access years ago. Thankfully my system draws about 25w at idle running a 4th gen i5...I want to upgrade it but, honestly, it does everything it needs to absolutely fine.

[@prophet9720]

That internal HDMI might be a neat use for a PiKVM or similar device

[@DeFi-Macrodosing]

Got a similar one: Lenovo ThinkCentre 720s SFF ~ i5 9400 for around $100 (UK). Added in 3 4TB SSDs and a 12TB HDD. Amazing server - I currently have a bunch of services + NAS running on it. Great video. PS: yes, the m.2 plastic contraption + power cables were a pain, but all worth it in the end.

[@Shylockza]

Esoteric jumper labeling was always a favourite journey of mine when I was a tech 40 years ago, nothing has changed!

[@moo4983]

If I had to guess what that onboard HDMI port is for, I'd wager it's probably for an FRU from Lenovo consisting of a GPU with no external outputs which plugs into the internal port and reroutes it to the motherboards port instead. A very convoluted solution to prevent end users connecting their display to the iGPU instead of the dedicated one.

[@jordanwardle11]

end user: "why is the hdmi port covered?"

[@Yuriel1981]

Lenovos i have worked with always seem to take forever to retrain after a CMOS clear. It probably their proprietary Bios verifying parts correctly.

[@TheQuickSilver101]

I love seeing computers repurposed and saved (in this case by a weird repair) from the trash. That case probably has lots of like left in it! As for proprietary things in a small form factor like that the worst by far imo is the power supply. I can live with other bits but the power supply has to be replaced with one exactly like it which really stinks.

[@keiran1]

well yeah its a i7 8700 i still run a e5 2407 a 4 core 4 thread xeon from 2014 in my server lol

[@shadowopsairman1583]

The mobos tend to be proprietary form factor in stuff like this and doesn't abide by ATX standards due to the mounting and power supply connections...

[@mal2ksc]

It's a normal ATX12V power supply. You may have a hard time finding one that fits nicely (might be easiest to go even smaller), but finding one that _works_ is not a problem at all. In this case they went with an off-the-shelf standard, just one that still hasn't caught on in general. The connector might be non-standard, but that's not a huge issue if you can cannibalize the connector from the dead PS (or from a 24-to-10 pin adapter).

[@BReal-10EC]

I'm shocked that a PC that new has jumpers that can keep it from booting. I'm old... and I can remember dealing with Motherboard jumpers in the 486 era. OMG I hated it. Bad vision plus huge hands = jumper hell. I really wish the industry would come up with some SFF and USFF case and part standards.

[@Tekwyzard]

I've lived through jumper hell too, jumpers for clock speed, multiplier, voltage, com port parameters, you name it, literal seas of jumpers on some things, no auto detect on hard drives either!! Keeping the manual safe and every brain cell possible fully engaged was very important. It's almost too easy now.

[@BReal-10EC]

@@Tekwyzard I replaced the Cyrix CPU with a used Pentium on a pre-built ABS Systems computer (they still around now selling Newegg prebuilds) in the late 90s that was a great deal other than that Cyrix CPU (and with the Cyrix CPU I could not install a GPU because "cpu not recognized" by driver install program!!! omg that era sucked!!!)... but then the mobo manual did not have a jumper setting for that exact CPU.. probably because the Pentium CPU I got came out /after/ the motherboard was released. I guessed and it worked. Lol.

[@mal2ksc]

Considering Lenovo has been using these cases with only slight modifications for over a decade now, they kind of _are_ a standard.

[@Locationary]

I had this exact issue and all I had to do was swap the bottom ram to the top ram and it worked lol

[@stey2590]

Nice to see an i7 8700 on the channel! My homelab is based on a Dell optiplex with an i7 8700, 32gb ram. Runs a bunch of LXC containers and VMs and only draws around 20w.

[@mal2ksc]

I just bought the i5-8500 version for $120, with 16 GB of DDR4 and a 250 GB SSD. Not a bad starter kit, if you can get around the horrible thermals of the case. All I really had to do was pop in an NVMe drive and clone the OS over to it -- aside from the necessary cooling hacks to keep the CPU fan from ever coming on because it is so incredibly loud.

[@bassdropyoface]

i enjoyed this. nice work

[@David_Ladd]

Great overview of this machine. I have a couple of the i5 versions of these systems that were saved from going to recycling. I still have to test the systems myself and see what I can do with them. I do like the systems I have also have the RS-232 DE-9 connector on them. Makes for using on older systems or terminal based projects.

[@Andy-fd5fg]

The internal HDMI is for the second or third monitor output from the IGD. I have an older m92 with an internal Display Port for the third monitor, along with a Display Port and VGA on the IO panel on the rear

[@andrewmcewan9145]

You are correct with the ram placement channels can have individual settings however if an oem board supports that in training i don't know tbh.

[@shephusted2714]

another good thorough one - think about getting sata splitters, good notes on proprietary nature, i have found these lenovos are quite a bit more pricey than older hp gear - hp still has some proprietary issues itself but generally not terrible - these 6/7/8th gen boxes are basically refurb sweetspot right now in my view - after these people probably just want to jump to am4

[@mal2ksc]

The 8th gen box is also a cheap way to meet the minimum spec for Windows 11. That's why I bought one. As a side benefit, the 8th gen runs a little bit less toasty than the 7th gen, but I still had to hack an intake fan onto the side to keep the CPU cooler from spooling up. The Lenovo BIOS fan curves have zero chill, they're full 747-taking-off or nothing.

[@pkt1213]

I was wondering why my server was taking longer to boot...then realize the MCOS battery was sitting on my desk next to it. I installed a GPU and forgot to put the battery back in. 😂

[@JMassengill]

You did great. I’ve been working on computers since the mid 90 (yes, I’m old)

[@Shylockza]

No you're not old, because I'm not.

[@MisterSixty]

Excellent! Thank you for the video!!

[@prince3121]

Great video. Small form factor, 2nd hand, low power consumption PCs are always a win win for a use case.

[@mal2ksc]

I just bought (and am currently using) an 8th gen version of this with 16 GB of RAM for $120! I should have known it was too good to be true, and that there's a reason these are being pulled after just five years of corporate service: their propensity to spool up like a jet engine when they get too hot -- and there's no proper fix for it. The case is very clever and actually a pleasure to work on, but the thermals are the worst I've ever seen. I cut a hole in the side to accommodate a 120 mm fan and tapped into the +5V line for the DVD burner to power it. (I originally used an internal USB header, but those keep delivering standby power and I wanted the fan to turn off when I put the PC to sleep.) The tach line is going to fan header AUX2 so it can be monitored. It's ugly, but it works without adding a whole lot of noise, and it should even be good enough for a video card to be added although I'll probably have to run the 120 mm fan a bit faster at that time. Lenovo really needs to redesign their pizza oven. Do we really need an optical drive anymore? Do we really need space for a 3.5" hard drive? Omit those and it should be possible to get some fans in there.

[@woe2you2]

That's very odd. I use a P620 in my Jellyfin server and it's a champ at NVENC.

[@DIYDaveOK]

Good stuff as always, Colten. Might try to touch base for next week if that works!

[@fragalot]

6:56 he said he replaced the SSD and the PC stopped working so there's likely nothing on that m.2 SSD.

[@diabeticnomad]

idk which one of you sent this but you have a good machine there thanks for sharing with us.

[@pjohnson21211]

being an old goober my sure fire way to clear CMOS is remove CMOS battery..... also for used systems I aquire CMOS battery is a ALWAYS replace part.

[@mal2ksc]

In this case, it's really easy to get to the coin cell. Unless you intend to mount the PC in a place you don't want to move it ever again, it's a couple minute fix when it dies, so I just let it be. The ones in my drawer can drain on their own for a couple years and be in slightly better shape when they are needed.

[@pjohnson21211]

@@mal2ksc no argument. I just prefer replacing the battery up front

[@thespencerowen]

That capacitor by the red jumper looks swollen to me.

[@barneybarney3982]

10:09 it says the same in the manual and on the board, it's from left to right "clr_cmos header" , "ic named U90" and "me_dis header" . It's done like that kinda often because of the space issue, HP even has this text part sometimes like 3-5cm from the components.

[@turbochardged]

i seen right at the beginning the far right memory stick wasn't fully seated.

[@Bart230]

The weird M.2 pins are actually pretty neat. I got two in my SuperMicro motherboard. :D

[@leo_craft1]

Remember in lenovo machines, the deafult jumper is on 1 and 2

[@shawnanderson6878]

If you take a flat head screw driver and touch the two CMOS battery connectors together will reset like the jumpers.

[@auym4432]

You can unplug power and press power button for 30 seconds that will reset system without removing the battery

[@QuiztressMadi]

I have a couple of these that fell off the back of a truck leaving a business in my town. I’m working on turning them into NAS’s for some friends and my biggest complaint is that they don’t have 2 3.5” drive bays so can’t mirror storage drives :/ so now I’m trying to re-house these MB into standard ATX cases with ATX PSU’s, so now I’m trying to find working 24pin adapters lol 😂 a real love-hate relationship with these Lenovo desktops for sure!

[@mal2ksc]

Suggestion: 3D print a new "bubble" lid that would allow you to cram in more 3.5" HDDs and some fans at the same time. Use that to replace the top cover.

[@waldfruchttee]

doesnt the system have a header for a small pc beeper? as then it can tell you what the problem is via the beep codes

[@dawn1berlitz]

hp and dell also has been spotted using those connectors as well though

[@Redmage913]

That is a really cute machine! I’m running an old Inspiron 530s as my file/Plex server and this machine far has better expandability in a similar form factor. Sure, the 530s can take two 3.5” drives, but at this point SSDs are dominant. Please keep it up with these great random topics :)

[@MrKeithsplace]

My first thought was to start RAM install starting with first slide, closest to the CPU, populate frame there, on most boards anyway.

[@falxie_]

I have an 8700 system that was at one point running 3 Minecraft servers concurrently with two of them modded along with a whole servarr stack. It's a very capable CPU

[@ikkuranus]

Clearly the HDMI port was Lenovo setting this system up to receive a snowblind mod without external cables looping back in.

[@JamieWarrenUK]

I use the full-size version for my proxmox server. I use another personally built 2nd gen i5 server for storage.

[@fluffyfloof9267]

That 2-pin header; could the label ME_DIS mean "disable" the (infamous) Intel "Management Engine"?

[@GronaldoSr]

Yes. ME BIOS seems to be corrupt.

[@railgun_runner]

I'm wondering if he noticed the DIMM on the furthest right wasn't fully locked in. Maybe he did, but for the sake of the video, the show must go on

[@wrnc-1197]

Let's see another beautiful video

[@patrickjoseph3412]

what chair do you have and is it comfortable?

[@gerydblackmore5484]

Best way to clear cmos, take battery out for two mins. Then re insert.

[@ativerc]

Which Vacuum cleaner/duster is he using?

[@TheUrbandilema]

Same I wanna know I need one of this

[@chriswhitework]

Cut a hole and mount a small HDMI screen to the case cover and connect to internal HDMI. :)

[@Eclection]

What's that red thing on your keyboard?

[@MrBubba123bubba]

was that a open case switch at the top? like for boot security

[@Makumbi]

No beep codes?

[@johnboyboy919]

Great Video ❤ Where is the Crafty Computing install script? Or is it a VM?

[@LinguisticMirage]

we never found out what that hmdi port did...

[@jb_meerkat]

Lenovo usually locks devices down to just their proprietary components, I remember trying to add a wifi/BT mini-PCIe card to my Lenovo m73p being quite a chore in finding a compatible adapter that lenovo actually supported on the very restrictive hardware list :\

[@mal2ksc]

That might be true of the WiFi slot, but the NVMe m.2 slot next to it has no real restrictions, so it may be more down to not bothering than actually trying to lock you out.

[@puanow]

Did you update the BIOS?

[@patrickderp1044]

the i9-9900 version is about 500 bucks on ebay, this one is around 250

[@ahmedkathrada2363]

Was it not possible to boot up without a cmos battery

[@LandonHalley]

New Hardware Haven video 😎

[@adamlazic493]

Man i need that beast apparently 24gb of ram and a xeon 1226 aint enough to run a modded minecraft fabric server

[@cosmefulanito5933]

Please do not scam users with scammers like aura.

[@TheUrbandilema]

Have one those as work pc at my job...they work pretty good...cudos....

[@oldNavyJZ]

Kudos for making a video about something (troubleshooting electronic equipment / PC's) that you clearly know absolutely nothing about. Seriously - it takes a lot of courage to do that. EDIT Just got to the part of the video where you admit you don't know what you are doing. Mad respect for that!

[@MW-cs8zd]

What kind of decaf coffee you drink?

[@vicdc5]

HP EliteDesk FTW.. 2x 3.5 bays

[@Sevunteen]

The 8700 is still a decent CPU, I have a z390 MSI Godllike motherboard, with an 8086k that i run a 2080 ti on, it is cool for the kids to play on.

[@znorthernsoulz]

You should take a look at Greg Salazar's Fix or Flop series if you do one of these videos again. He's the king of this type of thing. He takes a much more careful and scientific approach.

[@Ravonn1]

can you try p106-100 for home server?

[@IEnjoyCreatingVideos]

Nice video Thanks for sharing it with us!💖👍😎JP

[@auym4432]

Take all the ram out for post beep

[@Unamed705]

Hey @hardwarehaven what is a decently cheap prebuilt/old workstation that can be used as a decent minecraft server using crafty that can handle a couple mods? The reason I’m asking is because I’m a 13 year old with not much money

[@SeeJayPlayGames]

8:55 not enough thermal compound. People have tested this and found the best application is either a 5-point application, an X, or spreading it evenly. But that little bit you put isn't quite enough for optimal heat transfer. That being said, it'll probably only make about a 2 degree C difference.

[@peteradshead2383]

Why didn't you add a T800 ?, if you remove it , it will be back .

[@Sarthak119]

Why don't you use ramdisk to make ultra-fast storage whilst checking the transfer speed of data transfer over network

[@estusflask982]

Because no network can go as fast as RAM lol. No home network can even approach NVME SSD speeds. And the speed test is likely done in the RAM anyway without the OS having to be installed on the RAM.

[@DelticEngine]

Eyes before fingers. Always!

[@Echromum]

Basically,i will buy 10 Dell Optiplex's SFF for only 25 EUR (on monday,17.06),so i will try to experiment with them

[@calvino9797]

that's cool

[@samiraperi467]

Half height GPUs you say? A310 and A380 come in half height.

[@mal2ksc]

You can get a 4060 RTX half height if you're willing to pony up for it. Also 3060, 3050, 2050, and 2060. Just expect to pay about a 30% premium because of rarity. At the moment a low profile 3060 is a bit over $200. I saw a low profile 760 going for $60 if you're really strapped, but a normal size 750Ti is like $25. Unfortunately, the space in the case is about 5 mm too short! Adding a video card requires some degree of modification to either the case or the card. I just cut out some of the sheet metal to make the required space, and I can't install a 3.5" HDD because I cut away the bracket that's intended to hold it and it would be in the way of the GPU anyhow.

[@papahyooie]

You've been clearing CMOS with the battery in this entire time? The correct procedure for any mobo is to take the battery out. The purpose of the battery is to keep the CMOS memory energized... The purpose of the jumper is to discharge that energy.... If you leave the battery in, you're just draining the CMOS battery when you attempt to clear the CMOS with the jumper.

[@Zahrok]

For gpu try Nvidia RTX A2000 12Gb, are good for gaming and work, if you can afford it.

[@nomadic_shadow]

These lenovos are solid

[@LeonSteelpaw]

I am NOT a fan of proprietary nonsense that OEMS like doing with their machines

[@scudsturm1]

u could drop a RTX A2000 inside or a gigabyte 4060, but that hting needs an 8pin

[@NoobMaster2787]

next video idea talk about how someone can make a remote gaming server with proxmox

[@dwahnaslowdown8887]

Thanks for the belated "goober" disclaimer. I was honestly irritated by that point as to why you would make a video when you clearly didn't know what you were doing. I hope it worked out.

[@PingiPenguin]

Why are there so few comments on this video

[@alexandrutereify]

Lenovo IS Dell. It probably would have worked

[@nosg64]

"That seems to be the... Only Fan". 😆

[@Ancient_West]

Why do people always star at themselves in the phone/camera. LOOK AT THE LENS!

[@len9518]

RTFM, which is avaialble online. Think how much time you would have saved.