This Card Changed The Pokémon TCG Forever

The Pokemon Trading Card Game's history is rich with flavorful design, iconic characters from the franchise, and incredible stories about decks and cards. In today's video I cover the prize card mechanic of the pokemon TCG and the ways it has been altered for better or for worse since 1999.
Sources used throughout this video:
ptcglegends.com
limitlesstcg.com
bulbapedia.bul...
ptcgarchive.com/
pokemontcg.gur...
Editor: / @shinyrowlet
#pokemontcg #pokemoncards #pokemon
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[@vexel17]

Seems to me that tag team pokemon were designed solely to prepare for the arrival of VMAXs. They needed a way to power creep into 300+ hp behemoths without it being so sudden.

[@matthewkuscienko4616]

Even then, they still accelerated the power creep of the game faster than it probably should have been, considering that while tag teams were still legal in standard they arguably remained more dominant because although Vmaxs had more HP, you needed to evolve up into them but didn't have to worry about this with tag teams. Because of this, in my eyes, it seems like the opposite of what you said was true in that Vmaxs needed to be as big and powerful as they are in order to keep the pace with what is arguably the most broken mechanic ever printed, and I think it says a lot about how strong they are given that they are becoming dominant in expanded as well, especially with ADP having access to double dragon energy to more easily use it's GX attack on the first turn of the game

[@SLEDGEHAAMMER]

VMAXs were designed to counter the Tag Team mechanic. Tag Team Pokemon, especially Mewtwo & Mew/ADP/PikaRom, dominated until they rotated, never truly being countered by VMAX with the exception of Rapid Strike Urshifu VMAX; Urshi dominated the format at the end of the tag team lifecycle, still taking some Ls to the big three.

[@jamieroden5748]

@@matthewkuscienko4616 how long to type

[@jamieroden5748]

For you to type

[@jamieroden5748]

@@SLEDGEHAAMMER ye

[@cchoate09]

Every time I see ADP in expanded, I roll my eyes so much they might get stuck. The entire GX tag team was such a bad direction. Very glad we are heading back to the older ex mechanic. After we get rid of VSTAR and VMAX in a future rotation, I hope power levels reset to something sustainable.

[@mission4871]

The tag team cards should have just evolved from both the listed pokemon or something like that

[@emberpowertcg7692]

@@mission4871 now you see, that would have been a good idea :) nah though that actually sounds really cool

[@MidwestBoom]

You gotta remember people who actually play the game are only like a 3rd of people who buy pokemon products. Seeing 2 of your favorite pokemon on the same card was so cool

[@xcyphs]

@@MidwestBoom That don't mean they had to make the cards overpowered??

[@ConnorKrohnicles]

@@MidwestBoom you gotta remember that the Pokémon TCG is first and foremost a trading card GAME, so having something so unbalanced just really sucked for a while

[@YukichiReikyu]

When ADP released, I had been playing Yugioh for close to a decade at that point and thought I could stomach any kind of powercreep. After playing against it for a month, in both Standard and Expanded, I realized that I was wrong. ADP is the kind of card they should use in game design classes as an example of what NOT to do.

[@djeldj]

As a fellow tugioh plsyer I read it and was like this is essentially pokemons version of CED

[@Aigis31]

As someone who hasn't played Pokemon TCG in about a decade, I'm really sad about ADP being such a power house. On the one hand, it's cool that the team-up card of the Sinnoh Legendaries is strong. But on the other, I wish it didn't tear up an entire metagame and become so hated... why couldn't it just be a silly and situational card 😢

[@KiraSlith]

What you're noticing is almost definitely the difference in balance standards. YuGiOh has been solidly borked for ~7 years now, to the point it's more luck-based puzzle than TCG. If your deck engine doesn't manage a turn 1 win, your opponent's more likely will. With Pokemon, the game is practically balanced on the tip of a ballpoint pen, which it regularly falls off of. State alters like ADP are usually the result of executive meddling, high relative cost-power ratio cards like Base 1 Charizard, Legendary Battle Lugia EX, Zacian V, and Lugia VStar aren't intentional, they usually get an explicit counter-card and/or counter combo and a more meta-fit replacement soon after. Engines like Leipard V Swap are typically spot banned in tournaments. But when it breaks, it takes until at least the next set release to be fixed again. Leipard V Swap is obscure, but it's a small-league ruiner that rips up anyone that doesn't already have a V that doesn't have 230HP+ to tank getting struck twice, while it charges up and then deal 190 in 1 turn without discharging so the Leipards don't cycle out and fully heal instead of being KO'd, something none of the Pokemon V at the time could do.

[@tylerbreckenridge3850]

ADP was why I decided to quit until tag teams rotated. I did not enjoy that format at all

[@kade3788]

ADP is awesome so fun w lapras v max :)

[@Over9000Chainz]

I was playing Blacephalon GX in standard at the time this came out, the power creep was definitely felt when this monstrosity could take 3 prize cards from a fragile 180 HP lolipop

[@antusThul]

Even the 1 prize form could do so lol (I loved baby Blacephalon)

[@CoralReaper707]

Man 180 used to be massive.

[@edsylan2275]

TPC designing ADP: you know this cool and complex mechanic (GX attack) that rewards player for knowing when to use it for early advantage, when to hold it for late game scenarios and when to use it with a different pokemon? What if the mascot of the last main set throws all that out of the window and instead tries to turbo out the same gx attack as soon as possible? TPC designing Lugia: you know this cool and complex mechanic (Vstar power) that rewards players for knowing when to use it for early advantage, when to hold it for late game scenarios and when to use it with a different pokemon? What if the mascot of the last main set throws all that out of the window and instead tries to turbo out the same Vstar power as soon as possible?

[@papabroly8000]

Exactly. They haven’t learned and it’s deeply upsetting

[@laylajs]

I knew that they would make a totally broken vstar in the last SWSH set. Now I don't even know if what I hate more adp or lugia

[@bakh554321]

@@papabroly8000 Hot take, They knew exactly what they were doing. All of the good cards in Lugia are rotating. Amazing Pokemon all from year 1 SwSh (Regulation mark D) The Aurora Energy D Block POWERFUL ENERGY is from Rebel Clash which is rotating with the other D cards. The other special energies that provide typed energy? D Block Capture Energy? D also Evolution Incense that lets you find Archeops easily? Also rotating! Quick Ball? Replaced with Nest Ball which doesn't trigger from hand effects as it gets pulled from the deck! Even the Rainbow-Ish Energy coming out in Triple Beat (Luminous Energy) is just a Multi-Energy reprint. (Provides one of any energy but only 1 at a time as long as there are no Special Energy attached.) Look it sucks that Lugia kinda trashed the last 5 months of the meta. But Lugia is going to be stuck being a 200-220 damage beat stick that discards stadiums, or slave to accelerating RS or SS energies to Rapid and Single strike Pokemon. Lugia is gonna be tier 2 at best in Scarlet in Violet.

[@rochendlywouters9113]

@@bakh554321exactly!!

[@kyubbikcat2281]

Arceus Vstar too. And it’s possible that Arceus will see more play after rotation.

[@legoferrari14]

My favourite special gimmick cards were the Legends from HGSS; two-card mons that were overwhelmingly powerful but needed a lot of either time or resource invested to get both parts out; otherwise you'd be bricked if you have only one of the two parts. That sort of risk-reward element is missing with basic EX/GX/V mons since their nature as a single-card basic means it's too easy to summon a massive beatstick.

[@CoralReaper707]

We need more high risk high reward cards tbh.

[@kirillsniff9133]

they are also absolutely gorgeous, some of the best art of any cards ever printed

[@Star-tw5qg]

I remember loving my darkrai/cresselia card.

[@jameshoppe1417]

The new EX pokemon coming out are more risk reward because a lot of em are evolution cards now like older ones and V-Unions which take 4 cards do exist

[@DM-of5sl]

There’s V-Union cards which kind of do this, but most of them are bad/gimmicks

[@deathvai364]

5:40 as a yugioh player this sentence actually made me laugh out loud. Good vid. Ive only played pokemon TCG for about 6 hours but i enjoyed the video. 😊

[@BrandoMan]

Excellent video. As someone who started competitive at the beginning of SWSH, it's been nice seeing the TCG recover and getting to play what most people won't recall to as the worst meta ever.

[@stevenvasquez9869]

I have NEVER played a format that, with the release of 1 card, invalidated 90% of playstyles. It was so toxic playing against i stopped playing pokemon tcg as a whole until I saw it rotated out.

[@shuckletcg]

Nice breakdown! I quit playing PTCGO when Tag Teams were introduced and didn't return until SwSh when they were beginning to phase out. Seems like all TCGs push a bit too hard sometimes and then course-correct later.

[@neckbeardcat6777]

Yeah, I took a break during the swsh first block cause the amount of tube fire and adp/zacian decks made the game unenjoyable. I didn't enjoy playing either archetype, and they were strong enough that they dominated both the expanded and standard formats on ptcgo and killed deck variation entirely for several months. Still one of the worst decisions tpci has ever made in regards to the tcg.

[@TLTheLegend]

IMO tag team should actually require you to have the cards that make up the tag team. For example Celebi & Venusaur tag team should require you to have a celebi and a venusaur (whether in your hand, bench, or active slot) and then discard those cards in order to play the tag team to your bench.

[@philbuttler3427]

So you don't want them to see play

[@TLTheLegend]

@@philbuttler3427 no, I just want them to not be able to be played turn 1 at no cost when they're stronger than the vast majority of basics. I do realize that this MAY be a bit too much to ask you to effectively find 3 cards, but maybe it could just be have one of the two cards, or maybe you get to search your deck for one of them as a tag team card effect. I'm probably just nostalgic for when "basic" actually meant a basic pokemon and not EXes and tag teams and all these other insane cards that are absolutely not a basic card. But still.

[@spazerabanekozeroshki]

​@@TLTheLegendas a Yu-Gi-Oh player that sounds similar to fusion summoning and I have to agree with that implementation as it creates a level of balance and also makes you think how you want to use your resources

[@DanielKhuu]

This is like the Exodia card in Yu-Gi-Oh. Powerful and game changing, but you had to assemble him with arms and legs cards

[@spazerabanekozeroshki]

@@DanielKhuu that too

[@meeleeman6311]

Wait, so you're telling me the god, the creator of space and the creator of time on the one card is broken? UNACCEPTABLE!

[@oscarsullivan5983]

I played the tcg for over a decade but s/m tag team completely killed it for me. The most I’ll engage with it nowadays is the occasional booster box as compared to when I’d schedule my weekends around trying to rack up enough points for worlds

[@Countcomfortable]

Ah. Zacian is just as good in the tcg as in the main games

[@lkmdude8094]

I feel like from the break on rotation to when tag teams released was the healthiest the game has been in a long time. While GX's were skipped over in this video they were really good for the game. I feel like for a brief year the tcg was able to recapture the feel of the gen 3 era.

[@MrHappyChappyX]

I am GOBSMACKED that ADP was prinited, and then Zacian V came along to bring it to astronomical levels! 4 generations apart from one another! I have stated I came into the TCG realm recently and Zacian V (on PTCGLive) is extremely common. Little did I know the history bestowed before it, and how energy acceleration was changed forever through things such as Lugia Archeops, Mew Vmax Genesect... Absolutely incredible work, thank you for everything

[@sterlingtucker7042]

Gotta love how no matter the format zachian is just the most broken pokémon ever made

[@drblader7008]

I remember that time well! playing the standard format was hell for any casual player and worse than that at this time there was almost no way to cauterize this sick duo!

[@MrHappyChappyX]

I have left a few comments today, I feel as though I am learning the history of PTCG and many of the reasons why the game is where it is at today. The game is nowhere near as convoluted as Yu-Gi-Oh current formats which I also didn't play for decades, but the multiple prize card rules took a while to wrap my head around. Thank you for this informative content Celio, your scripts and editing ae outstanding! I can't remember the last time I watched youtube videos in full screen xD

[@kstanni87]

Iron Hands EX is saying hi. If it knocks out a pokemon it's bonus effect grants it one extra prize card. And with many 2 prize cards being popular than ever again it will be easy to draw 3 cards prizes. his weakness is it only does 160 and costs 4 energies

[@victorlinares4137]

And his low hp. What iron hands wouldn't do to he a 3 prizer with a fatter hp thank god thats not the case

[@grafzeppelin4069]

@@victorlinares4137 The problem is specifically that Iron Hands has low damage output. It's enough to OHKO single-prize attackers or evolving Basics / Stage 1s, wrecking the Prize trade specifically for the decks that are the slowest and least consistent.

[@victorlinares4137]

@grafzeppelin4069 its easy to compensate tho. Either with regieliki vmax or iron crowns. Ive actually seen dusknoir bc a 1 for 3 prize card trade is crazy

[@hikershay11395]

if we compare Miraidon with Zacian V, we will notice the power creep from ADP not quite recovering game needs a great reset like the old Gen 2 e-cards to wipe 300hp out of existence, though what they seem to be trying to do now is to redefine the power ceiling with 300hp stage 2 2-prizers whatever they do, please don't print 3-prizers anymore, basic 3-prizers are criminal

[@laylajs]

I prefer to one shot a 240hp 3 prizer than for my opponent to heal a 280hp 2 prize behemoth 2 times

[@hikershay11395]

@@laylajs thing is 3 prizers are not 240 anymore, but sure KOing mew vmax for 3 prizes feels neat

[@laylajs]

@@hikershay11395 I kind of wanted to also show power creep in the last 3-4 years

[@hikershay11395]

@@laylajs we just get further and further from playing single prize stage 2 pokemon

[@Gecko998YT]

KOing mew vmax with my single prize luxray deck is the greatest... ironically enough the only thing i can keep up with is vmax decks, i cant knock out most vstars quick enough with it

[@FabschOblivion669]

Ah yes, the GX TagTeam cards. The cards that killed my passion for the TCG and made me resent big basic pokémon in it.

[@keylimepython641]

From a gameplay perspective, probably a bad idea. From a lore perspective, its the creators of the multiverse. It should be OP.

[@lasercraft32]

I think the biggest issue with this is it literally only takes _two_ energy. I remember when a single 130 power attack (with no extra effects) costed 4. Now you just need 2 to completely alter the way the game is played.

[@cloak5857]

I haven't played Pokémon in years and just had a sudden curiosity where it was at now days. This was the perfect video to answer my question, thank you.

[@gabrielprates6403]

As a player that played in 2012 and just came back playing, I was surprised that such card existed :o

[@justahumblelittleoshawott7972]

I've never hated a card so much

[@boxkid759]

I love the ADP haters tears ❤️

[@SnoFitzroy]

what about lugia vstar

[@boxkid759]

@@SnoFitzroy lugia is fine.

[@derekjeter3654]

​@@boxkid759 Lugia is horrible

[@boxkid759]

@@derekjeter3654 nope.

[@pokezimm]

Would of been hilarious if Acreus V Stars ability was Altered Creation. Take an extra two prize cards 😂 and do 50 more damage.

[@unclejohnny5225]

Thanks so much for the video. As a newer player, this definitely gives some perspective as to the history of the game.

[@frankunodostres473]

I enjoy these videos a lot and they kinda make me wanna pick up my old cards and play again... but then I remember set rotation is a thing and my cards are nothing more than collectables :/

[@20eyesmisfit]

Profit is probably always going to take precedent over more balanced focus design sadly.

[@Mystic-Aidan]

Tag Teams are amazing on paper. Two Pokémon on one card, plus it’s a good excuse to bring in alternate forms like megas without needing evolution. However, 3 prizes was too much, and ADP was just a plague. Personally I want tag-teams back, but as two prize Pokémon, and have the game explicitly treat them like two separate Pokémon on one card. Maybe even dual type it? For example with Melmetal and Lucario, give it double iron bash and aura sphere. Act as if the HP value is just one + other. I’m glad they’re going back to evolution for SV, but I hope the 1+1 idea doesn’t die over a few really, really badly designed cards.

[@lasercraft32]

They weren't even TRYING to hide the power creep... This is rediculous!

[@kep2871]

ADP is easily my most hated card ever. and I hope it stays that way because I cannot fathom them printing a more obnoxious card

[@HabitusHealthTO]

Ur story telling is unmatched!

[@CoralReaper707]

Arceus vStar was the one card that truly turned me off. It has so much HP, and it's attacks and abilities are ridiculously overpowered. Tag Team GXs would've been so much cooler if you could only have one of those in your deck. The gimmick being not to spam them, but rather to protect them. Also, I would like to mention how ridiculously high HP stats are getting. I miss the times when 250 was truly monstrous.

[@jameshoppe1417]

Compared to Lugia Vstar... Arceus Vstar is balanced all it takes is one Professor's Research for Lugia Vstar to throw 2 Archeops on the bench and now Lugia Vstar can gain 6 energy in one turn.

[@walrusman151]

I always thought that tag teams were busted, would have been cool and maybe more balanced if basic tag teams had to "evolve" from having each component Pokémon (e.g. dialga, palkia and arceus) in play

[@lucasdunk2536]

Probably didn’t matter, but let’s not forget that it had a weakness to fairy, and then the very next set the type was removed from the TCG

[@beowulfmacbethson9675]

A: The pokemon tcg is power crept as hell man B: it's not that bad A: GOD and his two archangels are literally running around enacting The Book of Revelations

[@captaincanterberrystudios6920]

I had an X-ball Mewtwo once and terrorized everyone with an energy-heavy deck. Good times.

[@gigagaming960]

as a malamar player at the time there was a single player at every tournament who played this and i could not for the life of me win - it was always the one matchup i couldnt win without luck and felt abysmal to play against, even if my opponent was good and played well, it still felt less like them playing well and more like the sheer power of the card coming through. And then zacian came out as well.

[@CeliosNetwork]

The lists at the beginning of that meta were ADP food lol

[@gigagaming960]

@@CeliosNetwork yh it was insane - especially if you didnt have the money to burn on putting together an adp deck of your own

[@retroprogamer7009]

I am from the Future. We now got Pokemon Tex Mex Ultra V Star+. Those give 6 Prices and have 1500-2000HP and do 500-1000 Damage with 1-2 Energy

[@PTactician]

And we have a reprint of Roaring Moon ex in that set

[@drew8235]

I missed this era of the TCG entirely, but kinda thankful now lol.

[@itsmesteve1081]

I remember buying the reshiram and charizard and zekrom and pikachu decks at Walmart and I was so happy because I knew how collectable those particular cards were but at the same time I didn't want to buy them as singles and I also didn't want to waste money paying for booster packs. Those theme decks were SO freaking good, but tbh it didn't even feel like i was playing pokemon tcg anymore. It was like I was playing yugioh all over again where you power speed your plays do that you can dominate in one turn. It wasn't fun. There were no back and forth. And even if there were, the game would end in four or five turns because of how powerful these cards were PLUS you take 3 prize cards if they were knocked out. Knock out two tag team pokemon and you win the game. It speed of the game went way too fast. Don't get me wrong though, it was still cool but gone are the days of old school theme decks where you actually need to evolve a pokemon to stage 2 to make it knock out pokemon.

[@steeliodoesminecraft2645]

As much as ADP Zaician was broken in SWSH, I will say it was a blast and weirdly not too unbalanced in S&M without Zaician or too many other easy acceleration cards for steel or water. Plus using the GX attack left you vulnerable and depending on positioning, that could be your opponent taking 3 prizes with all you getting is the +30dmg +1 Prize. (I got 1 or 2 shot by Balcephalon gx way too much). I will admit I'm a tad biased as I first got hooked at a Cosmic Eclipse pre-release where I pulled it in my box, and had to somehow work in steel energy in a water/(electric I think? Not steel or mono water) evo pack. Best moment was facing down another new ttgx and maneuvering my bench mons to whittle it down, getting the ADP's gx attack off right before going down with a pokemon ready to go on the bench that thanks to the +30dmg could now take the knock out. To which my opponent excitedly stated they only need 1 more knock out for the win (Pre-releases are 40 card decks with 4 prizes, 4-3=1), to which I said "same here!" Promoted a Primarina and took the Ko (4-(3+1)=4). Needless to say I was the talk around the shop that day.

[@rivern.7551]

Honestly I think that expanded should be cut off at Lost Thunder, before the Tag Teams broke everything. TPCI/Creatures Inc. would never do that, but it would basically save expanded. Sun and Moon era cards had some power creep to them, but at least in this case the X&Y cards would be playable. Just think cutting Tag Teams-VStars off would be the best play.

[@darthdart3360]

Pokémon TCG players when they see ADP:😨 Kids when they see EDP: 😳💀💀💀

[@Shattered_Starstorm]

Not surprised that ADP was so powerful since they're the three gods of creation.

[@kirbstagoontheaxolotl]

I remember ADPZ era PTCGO You either ran Decidugoon/Altariagoon, Eternamax Eternatus, ADPZ or got nuked

[@literallygrass1328]

ADP was super farmable on the PTCGO ladder with inteleon vmax I could just spam the attack that bounces an energy, then once I bounce it's energy twice I knock it out with the second attack and then do 60 on the bench to zacian so I could knock it out. It only worked going first, but it was still hilarious to pull off.

[@ragingstorm_]

man every other pokemon media seems so much more interesting than the main series

[@hogoototwilightian628]

I'll argue, that Plasma Storm 134 Lugia EX, long ago, once had a similar effect. Which was the Overflow ability; if you knock out the opponent's front with Plasma Lugia, you take an additional card. The only restriction was that it costed resources to use it's only expensive attack, Plasma Gale, Overflow was an ability, and Lugia has to generally be up front. I'm only stating this, just to point out that these type of effects have happened before. But the difference was the card and the environment it was put in.

[@ChompChomp420]

I truly despised adp... repeating dull metas are one thing, but them being made of just one boring broken deck and it lasted for like 3 expansions so that made it even worse. And even then the deck was still good

[@coledavidson5630]

ADP is insane in expanded bc you can build a water/steel deck with cryogonal to get it ready

[@coolyeh1017]

Nowadays it is outclassed by Lugia VStar, control decks (doll stall and Plume/Bunnelby control), Regidrago VStar, slower than Palkia Vstar or Tsareena V, and Miraidon ex. 280HP for three prizes is simply too punishing in expanded meta for an effect easily removed by Pokemon Ranger.

[@coledavidson5630]

@@coolyeh1017 I made it work pretty damn well online when TCGO was a thing. Sure there are probably stronger decks but it still went really hard

[@dedou7722]

Oh God...I had Vietnam flashbacks as soon as I saw that card

[@baileyayyy5085]

I remember trying to hoard all the ex cards when trading with kids on the bus in elementary school. I was so close to a monopoly but that one kid held out and I couldn't get the last two :(

[@milesrobertson22]

Technically prize card inflation was introduced way before ADP with Rayquaza & Deoxys LEGEND

[@tristonmurray4190]

Imagine if this was like the Yu-Gi-Oh anime and these things are summoned real time, good luck fighting god and his two sons

[@KING-K-ROOL246]

I don’t play with pokemon cards but I do have the arceus, dialga , and palkia card

[@abra_escaped]

Wow, as someone whose only experience with the tcg is the gameboy game, these cards sound insanely strong. Just so I know, whenever a new series comes out, are you only allowed to use cards from that one?

[@CeliosNetwork]

You can use the cards from about the past 2-3 years in standard format. Roughly about 8-12 sets!

[@kirbosparent5863]

The biggest issue in the ADP problem at the time in my opinion was Zacian V. It dealt massive damage and had perfect synergy with ADP. Before SSH, people were trying out different Cards with ADP, like Keldeo GX, Zapdos Articuno Moltres GX or Spiritomb. None of that was here when Zacian V hit the scene.

[@MrdangerJ]

Team up was the birth of modern Pokémon tcg, random overpowered bullshit

[@slackerZ1]

I quit playing when they announced tag teams. I regret nothing.

[@LucyKosaki]

I remember a few years ago when I got into the Pokemon TCG online game it was when ADP Zacian was at its height. I made myself one too and started to rank up quickly because of how strong it was. Only to get absolutely outplayed over and over by Pokedoll stall decks, that dont give any price cards on defeat and recycle themselves endlessly

[@mattutter3525]

ADP was a blight on the metagame, and one of the biggest mistakes the pokemon company made with TCG.

[@Dragon_4046]

Ok, I don’t care if everyone hates it, but we NEED ADPG (adding garuntina)

[@connorself]

I stopped following the special card scene around the time of megas and seeing this video hit me like a truck 💀 power creep goes nuts

[@box_is_real]

i find the concept of tag team pokemon cool, if a bit risky and extravagant. But ADP is just stupid. As someone who plays MTG, there are reasons why cards that accelerate formats are so valuable (and also banned.)

[@randommemeaddict249]

I was never good at the TCG back when I played TCGO. It had no proper ladder(that I know of) like TCGLive, but everytime I used my (not that great) ADP deck and pulled out Altered creation, I won the game. Even if ADP dies, its other attach pulling energy from the deck to give to other pokemon ensured a quick recovery.

[@robertcajucom3203]

as a gen 4 stan and a filthy dragon link combo spammer in yugioh, ADP+Zacian was the one deck I loved the most.

[@Cedxfy]

I saw the thumbnail and was like “wait… i have that”

[@Darksilver740]

"We are back to the ex era and hopefully we can bring the power scaling back down to a more manageable level" Iron Hands ex: "Hold my beer"

[@liltone9614]

I believe 2020 would have been ADP Zacian V format then 2021 eternatus vmax

[@Querterus]

i dont play pokm card game but others and what i learnd is start of game and infinite auras or extremy powerfull and most of them will become rly strong the moment they get the right support or meta change

[@IceClimberr]

I loved shitting on ADP with Lucmetal

[@jeremiahprok5811]

when this deck first came out it was kind like eh, it got seen way more when zacian and the metal saucer card came out with energy switch tbf.

[@somethingaboutgaming.2538]

Bidoof: Look at what they need to mimic even a *fraction* of my power.

[@Joker22593]

Extended is 1000x times better if you just ban rule box cards.

[@Nocturne989]

To be fair, due to single player enemy trainers normally lacking a full team and official competitive being VGC doubles the whole time, outside of basically just Smogon players, you were never "knocking out six pokemon to win the old fashioned way". The 2-prizers would technically be closer to what navigating a VGC game would be like KO-wise. I wonder if that contributes to the jump from 2-prizers to 3 feeling more like explicitly overtuned power creep.

[@SilverShadow02]

And ever since Team Up, it's been a turn-2 knockout-or-lose game. I'm glad Live has restricted the card pool somewhat so expanded games aren't decided on turn 1.

[@Japanlover79]

I played a lot of expanded during this time period on TCG online. Mostly because making a deck that could compete in that format was impossible. The only good card for dealing with tag teams was Aloan Ninetails with aurora veil. As it prevent all damage and effects from GX Pokemon

[@guitarsurfer15]

As someone who never played beyond the kitchen table TCG of Diamond and Pearl, this terrifies me and makes me think not getting into Pokemon TCG was the right choice.

[@johnpaulantoncich4500]

So on point. Well done

[@kintsuki99]

Dendene GX was the yrue goat being slotted in all decks. That is true power.

[@tpose1-jo3uy]

Back in second grade I had an adp but back then none of my friends that collected including me didn’t know rarity, we only new strength so I ended up trading it for a couple random gx’s

[@mrdinosaurproductions9507]

I remember freaking out when I pulled the alt art. Was a dumb kid, so I sold it for just 60 bucks. Now it’s 300 😭

[@CeliosNetwork]

Selling a card X amount of years ago and regretting it is an unfortunate part of this life 💔

[@mrdinosaurproductions9507]

@@CeliosNetwork Yeah D:

[@MrMat322]

I still think that Pikarom was worse, the Koko star + thunder mountain + Zeraora gx retreat in the first turn into tag bolt for 2 KO next turn was devastating, usually was a 4/0 or a 5/0 in the second turn of the game. The only other card that felt so frustrating was Buzzwole GX with Diancie prism star and strong energy, so you could never play 70 or less hp basics. Pikarom was more frustrating because Dedene and Tapu Lele were the 60 hp basic and even your active tag team would get 350 damage in two turns.

[@rakimfreeland90]

This was a good watch

[@pokepasta-rs4dp]

just looked through my card collection, i have all the cards for this insane setup and i can ruin the tcg for my friends forever, however, i would much rather collect cards than to play with them, so i probably won't

[@AlJaKa]

I remember pulling the thumbnail card In a pack a couple years ago, good times

[@ConstructiveCriticHD]

yeah the commons in V, single GX were okay when SW/S released. My local pharmacies started to mark down and put out Cosmic Eclipse pre cons. As a House rule, we limit the use of V, and GX to one. We don't use tag, and EX to two if it was a evolution, one if it was a game changing basic. Mega's you kinda only wanted to run one any ways. I will say structure decks out of the box pre V were all relatively balanced. Competitive TCG might never change their rules. But maybe a similar format and the need to declare a precon and to carry at least 5 Pokémon from such sets would benefit your community. I just used to play casually with my sister till we moved to more mature card games.

[@ConstructiveCriticHD]

Much like the probable skepticism surrounding Pokémon Bank finally coming to Gen 9. Knowing that Game Freak/nintendo will probably not give us additional resources to represent our favorite region's mechanic. And will region Lock bank's ability to Mega evolve, terrastilize, Dynamax and Gigantimax, and use Z moves base on the game the pokemon got transferred from. If not deny the addition of new mechanics to gen 9 as a whole, no matter where those pokemon came from. I don't know if it exist in Pokemon TCG, but a format that locks a deck to one mechanic, or you can only hold one card out of the 3 could be healthy. If you Tag you deny your ability to double up on any other possible option.

[@10types]

ADP is the only card to not be playable at a world championship but still win. Thats how strong it is

[@H20ZTS]

The strongest card is obviously tag team incineroar

[@williamclancy-jundt118]

Odd that they didn't go back and use some cards that are immune to basics.

[@MrLurch133]

My gourgeist /Raticate decks were only thing that could keep pace with their price card set up.

[@NameAvailable]

As much as I despised that card, there was no better feeling than beating an ADPZ deck online

[@d4c_reznor470]

I whole heartedly believe the Team Up-On format was the TCG at its worst. ADP, other tag teams, and a plethora of Vmaxs was too bloated for its own good

[@AspireLauv]

ADP was so dumb because if they got the metal and water energy with zacian, it literally just made it to where you needed to knockout 2 cards best case scenario. Ridiculous to say the least

[@CptnKraken]

I quit playing because of ADP x Zacian because it took all the fun and creativity out of the game. I have only just recently started playing again and am loving the OG ex cards :)

[@alexanderjackson7948]

As a yugioh player, I am used to power creep and people complaining about it. Usually in that game how fun the game is isn't tied to the power level though. My question is: Do the new mechanics actually inherently break the mechanical functionality of the game or is it just that the effects/stats they were given were too much?

[@CeliosNetwork]

Tag Teams, V, and VMAX essentially flipped the game on its head because 90% of the powerful cards being released were 3 prizers so most games ended in 2 KO’s for about 2 or so years.

[@alexanderjackson7948]

@@CeliosNetwork But a game ending quickly isn't necessarily a bad thing, is it?

[@CeliosNetwork]

A game which ends quickly means each player makes less decisions, resulting in games being decided much more by luck than skill. Pokémon has always been a game with skill and decision making at the forefront, while I never played yugioh since it always looked like faster games with a lot of luck and combo chaining involved.

[@alexanderjackson7948]

@@CeliosNetwork But the speed of the game doesn't really matter. It's a matter of how many meaningful decisions can be made within that timeframe. Now pokemon seems to have a focus on damage and battling and health and such, which are inherently tied to the turn counter. That may be why decisions = turns is a thing in pokemon. But in yugioh the game has gradually moved away from the game mechanics and into the card text. When the game reaches a point where sheer attack numbers matter, it is often referred to as a "simplified game state". Most of the actual gameplay occurs outside of combat, during the main phase where one player is trying to do his combo while the other is stopping him at various points, with the interruption that he set up going first. And also most modern decks are incredibly consistent and rarely play generic show-stopper cards, which you either draw or don't. kzbin.info/www/bejne/oISpg2aEj7pkqLM I believe the final best of three of this tournament (from 2:20:00) with the commentary shows how modern yugioh functions pretty well. The first game is only about thirteen minutes long, if you feel like you want to see what I'm talking about. Also if you do watch it, please tell me what you think.

[@hi-i-am-atan]

@@CeliosNetwork lotta combo chaining, yeah, but luck-reliant decks are lucky if they can reach rogue status. while your opening hand will always cause the typical tcg variance no matter the deck, a deck won't find a comfortable spot in the meta if it doesn't have the consistency tools to pull off one of its openers with any realistic opening hand - and that's _with_ factoring in that your opponent is prob holding a staple anti-consistency tool in their hand, primed to be pitched the moment they drew it. so barring formats where a deck has a floor consistent enough to be dominant but a ceiling defined by major high-roll swings, modern ygo is actually so low on the luck-dependence scale that it's not uncommon to hear complaints about the _lack_ of variance in meta play ... mostly from people who only play casually, but still the monkey's paw is that all that variance is instead redirected to whether or not the next format will be defined by decks with rich and skill-testing combo trees ... or by linear power engines that you can slap in any shell to make a technically diverse array of decks that play exactly the same lmao