This Game is not called "Peacehammer" - DoK Lore

Today we explore how the Daughters of Khaine fit into the pantheon of order after the events of Broken Realms!
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[@unluckyalf6437]

Someone bathes in enemy's blood as a dare after battle ONE TIME, and suddenly its: "OMG, Daughters of Khaine bathe in blood, alert the villagers, ready the pitchforks".

[@ByEmberAndAsh]

I think a big part of the Lumineth remaining allies to Morathi is hinted at in the three post-Morathi Broken Realms books that the Aelven gods have their own sort of clique hashing out their own interests that are, maybe, not so aligned with those of the greater pantheon of Order. Nothing super explicit that I can recall, but there's comments.

[@tomaszlucjusz]

People quickly forgot how Fyreslayers betrayed City of Lethis after got a bribe from Nagash.

[@Bluecho4]

At least with the murder-elves, you can count on them wanting to murder Chaos. The mercenary dwarfs, by contrast, can be bought. (This applies equally to the Fyreslayers and the Kharadron Overlords, those sky-sailing capitalists).

[@beardhammerwargaming]

Totally agree with every point. The Lumineth alliance is probably because the Twin Gods Tyrion and Teclis have a plan for her and are conspiring with Malerion. My guess would be that we will get something in the Umbraneth tome in about 1-2 years.

[@just_gut]

Something I think is important to note is that AoS is about the conflict between Order and Chaos, not Good vs Evil. That is sometimes a hard distinction to understand because most of our media focuses on the conflict between Good and Evil. This means that Sigmar is almost certainly at least accepting of Morathi's methodology if it promotes the greater success of the elimination of Chaos; after all, Sigmar isn't exactly a "good" guy, either. Sure he's trying to protect people from Chaos and build rad cities or whatever, but he literally sends warriors out who lose their "humanity" over time and become almost soulless husks. I think this is a space where GW could play more in and in more interesting ways. Show us some Chaos people actually doing real good; freeing slaves, saving children, that kind of thing. Have the Chaos people that are doing these things also extoll the virtues of their patron (or maybe the whole pantheon) and present them in a more benevolent light.

[@aaroncraig7744]

Yeah; most people under chaos aren't religious fanatics. The warcry catacombs book was interesting in that it depicts relatively normal people living in a city with children...but under chaos rule. It quickly becomes about groups of religious fanatics again, but the opening was interesting because of how differently it depicted life for people under chaos rule.

[@gwell2118]

I think part of the problem with peoples confusion with the GA is the names. It gives this binary sound to them all. If they were instead called something like The Pantheon, the Hordes of Gorkamorka instead of Order and Destruction I think people would be confused less.

[@Bluecho4]

I mean, _some_ Chaos people are freeing slaves. Others, like the Khornate forces in Aqshy, were taking slaves and forcing them to build monuments, go to war, and commit cannibalism. That's sort of the trick with Chaos: there's nothing consistent about them, except the endless quest to gratify their desires, regardless of utility. Some people who serve under Chaos's banner were almost certainly won over by their messages of freedom, or by what Chaos could offer. Others simply want to keep their heads down and survive in lands utterly dominated by violent zealots and the dark gods they worship.

[@dothatshi]

Morathi and her son, Malerion...they have always been duplicitous thorns, yet essential allies. I believe this will all culminate with the release of Slaanesh, with Malerion's return, with the Idoneth revealing themselves to all aelven kind and certainly then, we might find out just how true these gods are to their words and deeds. This is why Age of Sigmar is so great! There is an grand overarching plot that is in the making and we, as fans, don't have to wait, least not anymore, for a decade of story stagnation and one measly story development that never comes to its fruition. Storm of Chaos comes to mind, only this time, no magic frog can bubble an entire world back in time.

[@yehiahuzayyin7972]

I respecfully think you underestimate our Amphibian Masters

[@DemonicEngineer]

All very true, but I was still really disappointed that after they finally gave chaos a way to cancel out the immortality of Stormcasts, they made some dumb "I'm immune to whatever that is" armor for everyone. Literal plot armor. So while it's not turning back time, it's still severely lessening the impact of events.

[@dothatshi]

​​​@@DemonicEngineer wholeheartedly agree. that entire sub plot was a good twist, albeit a bit of shock value from GW's writing team, again! however, I'm holding my breath because whereas Fantasy was limited to a single world with a single planar realm, this time we have many worlds with undiscovered Macguffins and Mary Sues that should play into this plot. meanwhile, Gitz have yet to do anything of value 😂

[@dothatshi]

​@@yehiahuzayyin7972 noooo, I would never do that. I'm actually still waiting on the Idoneth to do something meaningful in the Mortal Realms, is what I was saying.

[@DemonicEngineer]

@@dothatshi Yeah, it annoys me that Order is the main characters in everything. In broken realms Morathi, she got everything she wanted. In Broken Realms Teclis, he got everything he wanted. In Broken Realms Be'lakor, He kinda started something interesting but ultimately lost the fight he was there for and his main accomplishment proved kinda useless afterwards. Not to mention how the Seraphon outshined him in his own story. And in Broken Realms Kragnos, he lost completely. They had been hyping up this Huge Destruction army heading towards this city for a LONG time, and they completely fail everything they set out to do. They even added in some Chaos as a third threat by having the Newborn partake in the battle (Something that should have been a big deal, because they are supposedly much stronger than a Greater Daemon) but was promptly banished by 1 Stormcast and 2 humans. Order just wins no matter what and it's boring.

[@shay212]

Daughters of Khaine aren’t the neighbors you’d have a barbecue with, but they are the neighbors who’d call the firefighters if that barbecue sets the fence on fire. They don’t really care, but problems like that for you, means potential problems for them! Lol

[@vitogunnhilder]

In regards to Lumineth and Khainites working together, I think it’s more because they’re keeping an eye on each other. Better to pretend being allies to keep updated on your most likely “frenemies” - especially if they’re part of the power still drawing out Aelven souls from Slaanesh’s belly - than it is to isolate yourself from them completely, succumbing to paranoia. Edit: But, I feel really bad for the Anvils of the Heldenhammer, though. They were the guardians of Lethis, the Shyishan City housing the Midnight Vault, and failed to protect it against Lady Olynder. And then, Morathi-Khaine also gives them a devastating loss at Anvilgard, their City in Aqshy. These Stormcast from the Age of Myth just can’t get a break.

[@cablea6077]

I think you summed it up well doug, if its obviously evil its a chaos army, if its obviously dead its a death army, if its obviously primal its destruction, and if its not obvious its order. Order is the faction of the enemy of my enemy is my ally, but not my friend.

[@capriciouscat6679]

Great vid, I feel like one important point to mention as well is the DoK justification that Anvilgard was weak. From Morathi’s point of view, the fact that the Blackscale Coil could so completly infiltrate and control almost every part of Anvilgard society just goes to show that it likely couldn’t have stood against serious attempts from Chaos cults to infiltrate it, and the Soulbound supplement Shadows in the Mist goes into pretty good detail about this. Furthermore, as the coup was very bloody and violent the city was devastated. On the one hand, this means that the Stormcasts would probably have had an easier time invading than if it were at full strength, but it would very likely have caused even more devastation and weakened the city even more, making it easy pickings for any Chaos lord who wanted control over the four (4) realmgates that the city holds. I imagine Sigmar realised this as well and it was probably part in the decision to not exact violent retribution.

[@Noxims47314]

I figured since the city was largely aelven it would suffice to plant a personal banner there of ownership, it's a suitably medieval mindset.

[@gwell2118]

I mean it’s true, and after the siege Morathi did keep her word to help Excelcius. Along with freeing all the stormcast prisoners and even made it clear that any citizens can leave should they so choose. Many can’t really afford to leave but the option exists.

[@adambielen8996]

@@Noxims47314 No, the Aelves controlled the city but it was most humans. Phoenicium is the only City of Sigmar that has a majority Aelven population. Or i should say it was, as Morathi has either slaughtered or sold off most of the non-Aelven population of Anvilgard and even a lot of the Aelves too.

[@gwell2118]

Well for the point of how allies work in AOS it needs to be understood that the daughters of khaine are not exactly a united front. We talk about Morathi as synonymous with the faction as a whole, but in fact there are others who are vying for control of the faction besides Morathi. A rival Hellebron has been established who has actively tried to usurp control from Morathi, and many DOK and even hag queens have even denounced Morathi for daring to try to claim Khaines mantel, these would gladly work to curry allies against her. The DOK are not a true united front. And as for COS and SC she is shown to be Atleast playing nice with them. She helped Excelcius. She freed the captured Stormcast and even made it clear any Anvilgard citizens who wish to leave to a sigmarite outpost may do so. Many can’t afford or risk the journey but the option is their regardless. So she is being pretty diplomatic at the least, Atleast given the situation. And let’s not forget Anvilgard wasn’t exactly Hsmmerhaul. ISigmars not gonna risk an ally over a frontier city without even a realm fate. Atleast not yet.

[@thatgx3]

just a perspective on Grand Alliance Order: order doesn't mean friends, or even same team really, it just means you are not a force of destruction (you don't worship battle for battle's sake), death (you are not undead), and you are not a force of chaos. that's it. DoK would not make sense in chaos or otherwise, and as Doug points out they have reasons they might be allied with other armies of order for specific narrative moments (allies of convenience or necessity typically).

[@DemonicEngineer]

The moment a Dwarven god tells people to not hold grudges.

[@Bluecho4]

Two points: 1) Characters are allowed to make mistakes. To make sub-optimal or counter-productive choices. If working with the Daughters of Khaine is ultimately a decision that will come back to bite Order in the ass later, it's what they're doing because it seems like a good idea right now. Or at least it's a bad choice among many bad choices. They take allies where they can because they have so many enemies. Like, these are the zealous murder-elves who are _really good_ at murder. You'd rather have those women with you rather than against you. For now. 2) Just because the factions _can_ be allies doesn't mean they don't also fight each other. The function of Warhammer lore, in the grand scheme of things, is to provide context for why Your Dudes are fighting The Other Person's Dudes. Even if the respective armies are nominally on the same side. That's why all kinds of inter-faction and even internal faction hostilities exist, from a meta narrative perspective. That the forces of Order are willing to work with the Daughters of Khaine, in the broad sense, doesn't change the fact that they don't like each other. At any given time, members of Order might get into a fight over this animosity.

[@chaseclark8404]

The cooperation and alliance between DoK and LRL makes the most thematic sense Doug: the Aelven gods have allied to not only incarcerate Slaanesh, but to rip Aelven souls from it to restore their primacy and exact their revenge. Some mere mortal Aelven squabbles would mean almost nothing to gods and the great game they're playing with a Chaos god.

[@chaseclark8404]

That all being said, I've been eagerly awaiting the release of the Aelven army representing Slaanesh's wardens; Tyrion and Malerion: "twilight" aelves.

[@Sinfilled66]

"Elves be crazy". Never heard such a succinct summary of Warhammer elves lol.

[@icecreambrainz8726]

@4:45 "The only people she didn't flip off were like dwarves" well, no one wants their name in the book, god or not.

[@cursling9]

Great video. I would also add; Morathi is out for personal gain, not to actively overthrow Sigmar which Chaos and Destruction want.

[@Duhad8]

I think DoK make sense being allies with Deepkin since, like you said, their story ends in a place where the two seem to actually be getting along as well as anyone does in this setting (better then most Chaos factions, CERTAINLY) and since the Cities seem to be willing to fight with anyone who hates Chaos, that also tracks. They are like the Guard from 40k, the average trooper doesn't know much of the grander scope conflict, just that these guys are allies and everyone else needs-a-purging. Stormcast similarly are pragmatic, they might not LIKE DoK and might consider them VERY untrustworthy, but they fully understand how unbelievably hard the war against Chaos will be to win and every advantage they can get is one they will take. I imagine Stormcast would just as quickly work with the armies of Destruction and Death IF they where willing to commit themselves fully to fighting Chaos once more. Lumineth... I don't know. I guess GW wants to keep the whole, "all elves in a big faction" thing available since Cities, Lumineth and Deepkin more or less fully cover all of the elf models in the game? I assume Slayers, Kharadron and Cities can all work together for a similar reason. Lore wise though, for the elves... I donno, I guess Lumineth trust and like no one, but see themselves as exemplars of elven kind who need to make themselves available to their misguided kin so that they can see how PROPER elves behave? Shrug. I think its basically just, "Elf solidarity".

[@Raresh789]

Great video, though I was under the impression that Melusai no longer hide themselves since Morathi's apotheosis during Broken Realms. Does the new battletome contradict this?

[@jonathanwatson4484]

there was a short story of were her son talk to her, his reaction to his mouther becoming a god was "coagulations this still doesn't change anything" heck when he had his finger cut off his reaction was pure calm as well saying "you really shouldn't have done that", in the end malrion said to his mouther that she made a mistake, he told her now sigmar is arming his forces (this was before the attack on excelis), she brushed it of saying he wouldn't risk it but malrion reminded her that sigmar will literally burn down anvil guard soon unless she fix it, the whole story is great, as the shadow king mostly just appear to warn her as well give her the blame for slaanash getting free.

[@Playaplaya18]

I'm relatively new to AOS lore, but I feel Morathi belongs in Order because she wants power, subservience, and Order, much like she always has dating back to her time in the Old World. It's kinda like Nagash's line of thinking, but Morathi knows she needs allies because she isn't (wasnt?) on Nagash's level, so she plays ball with the rest of Order until she can find an opportunity to snake her way to more power. I'm really digging the AOS lore, thanks for the content.

[@stefschouwenaars9562]

She still isn't on nagash' level. I don't think any order god is. Nagash has all the dead so he's much stronger. The reason morathi works with order and nagash doesn't is cause nagash can afford to.

[@Phox532]

Still think that Morathi, Teclis, Terion, and maleron are all playing a long game. They don’t like or want sigmar to be at the top of the Pantheon and they’re going to do whatever they can to make sure that they are

[@tormunnvii3317]

What is needed; Grand Alliance of Harmony. Grand Alliance of Harmony contains the following Factions; Lumineth Realm-lords Umbraneth Idoneth Deepkin Sylvaneth Seraphon

[@Noxims47314]

Personally i like the faction more because they're a part of Order, it shows you that none of them are saints or the only path to take, (muh good guys) because allies of convenience and necessity is something everyone has to put up with sometimes. Morathi desired godhood above all else and she took it, how the rest of the faction will respond is where some good story telling can and should take place. because, was it worth it? or did she make things worse? did she actually by strengthening herself add to the force of Order overall? it all depends on the perspectives and motivations of the forces around her and now, against her. also they did piss off the duardin Doug, when Anvilguard was taken all other temples were defaced and destroyed, the Fyreslayers there fighting the Daughters for nine days and nights to defend their Lodge. it likely didn't end well.

[@nolanlarocque2967]

Ohh I'd love to read that story. where does it mention that

[@Noxims47314]

@@nolanlarocque2967 I believe you'll find it in Soulbound Shadows in the mist, which is one of the soulbound roleplaying books. either that or it might be found in the new Daughter's battletome.

[@nolanlarocque2967]

@@Noxims47314 cool I have the soulbound campaign so I can look in there thanks

[@adambielen8996]

I will point out that the majority of the population of Anvilgard that was in the city was either sacrificed by the Daughters either immediately after the siege and when they had an uprising or were given to the Idoneth as payment. But this another reason for why Sigmar wouldn't be gunho to retake the city, because it is just a bunch of buildings. Anyone worth saving is already outside in the jungles fighting back as part of the resistance.

[@odeegrotsniffer4166]

Morathi and the other elf gods have their own little cabal.

[@augustocarnevale1900]

People forgets that aos = desperate times. Any ally is a good ally. Without morathi ascended and helping in excelsis, all ghur would have fallen

[@cursling9]

Just thinking about Morathi gaining god status....can this be taken away? And if so, can it be taken away from any of the gods?

[@4679-e6e]

Isn't the entrapment of Slaanesh still a secret from the pantheon? That's like the simplest reason I have for Lumineth allying with Morathi.

[@pat0652]

The Writers DO need to tone down her evil/hubris. They won't be the writers forever, and eventually some new developers will feel she needs to get her comeuppance...that would be a shame.

[@kingofsicily]

agreed. The problem is with much of the novels they come across as bad on the surface as death or even chaos. Its too 90's edge-lord for me, just played out.

[@goatforcemcgoat8233]

its really odd that DoK can work with Lumineth, but Nighthaunt can't work with Bonereapers, despite there being a massive narrative about how well they work together!

[@chaosmike89th]

I miss when they were a part of the Druchii from the old world. Being the state religion of hate and murder fit the Dark Elves, but definitely precluded them from being friendly with pretty much anyone else.

[@LawnPygmy]

Foreign policy, which talks between the factions are, is not about right and wrong but power.

[@2Tough]

well said

[@fumarc4501]

The aelven pantheon be acting Sus.

[@mannypinerio9415]

So the alliance of the other order factions can make sense easily... what confuses me is why the DoK were not torn apart by civil war during her ascension. From what I understood, they were all being lied to by Morathi with hope they could revive Khaine since Morathi has the heart... then she does a back room deal there is no way all the covens could know about, in fact we have a story where she executed her own shadow stalker spies so the secret would remain... and usurps Khaine's place in actuality. I don't understand how fanatical faithful of Khaine... to the point where they got wards from literal faith in their murder god... can just be like, shrug "Ok Morathi is Khaine now." and continue as normal. Where are those who remained faithful to Khaine? Why are there not dozens of covens who now hate Morathi and swear vengeance? Does no one have their new life goal to free Khaine's heart from the liar who holds it?

[@MandoProjekt]

Easily! Because they are the goodest good girls around ;-P

[@soberirish83]

They should have Morathi make an alliance with GorkaMorka and move DoK to Destruction. They've got more in common with greenskins and ogors than almost anyone in Order.

[@martinrossler7804]

Peacehammer... What a joke...

[@niilofriden4465]

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