This is how Melee Rulesets are HURTING Melee.

Hey friends, I thought there was some productive discussion on a possible change to melee rules and expectations after a troublesome set during Arcamelee 4 in France

[@Konamiplsnerf]

I agree with how players shouldnt be the ones choosing what the outcome should be. As someone who worked at a casino, if something were to mess up from the games perspective, we would have to call our supervisor (an outside 3rd party who hasnt touched,looked, or been apart of the current game) to decide how to continue if the game fumbles/something goes wrong. having a clear ruleset for controller malfunction should of just been thought of before hand.

[@defibillytor6639]

I think a good comparison is tennis. If your racket breaks during the rally, no replay happens (but you are allowed to try to win the point with your broken racket). However if the ball busts, the point is replayed. This is similar to having your controller break (your own equipment), and having the wii break.

[@nolanpagay3410]

THIS IS THE BASEDDD 💯👍 GIVE THIS MORE THUMBS UP

[@zakolache4490]

As a gigging musician, if my instrument breaks a string, or a cable goes out, or my amp gets a drink spilled on it & fries (all of which have happened), i need to be ready with backups immediately so the show can go on as uninterrupted as possible. Same is standard practice is most paid professions & comeptitions. Same should be with melee too.

[@Doeboy]

Interesting point - other professions require backup and redundancy all the time. The production team here most likely (or should, anyways) have back up Wiis, CRTs, cables, etc. But the onus of the controller has always been on the player, and so as a pro player, it should probably be their responsibility to have a backup ready. I think there should be standardized time window for a backup controller to be both plugged in + warmed up to avoiding icing out, and as Stark brings up, some sort of standardized ruling about how to actually handle the game/stock when the malfunction happens.

[@alexa9433]

I read that as giggling musician and I was highly confused

[@kode-man23]

Yep. The 9v battery died in my pick ups at one show, and I didn't happen to have a spare. Guess what? I cost our whole band that time slot. We literally forfeited our spot, because I wasn't prepared.

[@philpie2998]

Back ups aren't allowed. That's the point

[@lukeshioshio]

What if your racket breaks in a tennis tournament?

[@stephenbridges928]

If TO says you should quit that’s completely unacceptable behavior.

[@Jakerunio]

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter what the rule is. What matters is that there IS a rule, and that it isn't up to players to decide how to handle these situations.

[@WattPheasant]

I didn't think I would agree with you going in, but you make a very good point and I 100% agree. The players shouldn't be left to make those split second decisions.

[@StarkDoes]

Thank you for being so open-minded and positive, I appreciate your comment!

[@StarkDoes]

So many great perspectives and insights, thanks for sharing everyone

[@kolja783]

I think Moky did the right thing but he wasn't mentally prepared for it. He was behind game 4 and basically gave himself a respectable retry instead of taking the win. I think this is a modest way to approach the ruling: If dead controller player is winning restart the game, if dead controller player is losing make him forfeit that game. If it's even above 2 stocks each replay, if even 2 stocks or lower dead controller player forfeits. "Even" should probably be like a 70% difference max. TO disgression should be used, like this game wasn't even when Jmook's controller clearly died but it was after he SD'd because he couldn't input. This is what TOs are for, that'd be a game 4 replay under my idea for rules.

[@LeetTron5000]

I dont agree with the idea of a melee game being even. 4 stock comebacks happen all the time. Momentum can shift on a dime and stocks can be greased with ease.

[@DJMatGE]

100% agree! in the SF4 community this was allready established. if you mash start during the ultra animation and it does NOT kill, you lose the round. Otherwise the preassure is too high...

[@kode-man23]

Can you not turn the pause function off? That seems like a bit of an oversight, no?

[@DJMatGE]

@@kode-man23 in sf4 you couldnt. It came in later games, and some arcade sticks had a switch. But yeah it is an oversight, just like there was no way to set your button mappings on the Character Select Screen.

[@kode-man23]

@@DJMatGE Oh okay. I just started playing FGs so I haven't gone to any tournaments or anything like that. I'm good when it comes to keeping the face buttons the same as the default. But the shoulder buttons I pretty much always have to remap. Also, didn't know that mashing Start during a super was a thing. Guess I'll keep this in mind and just avoid picking that up as a bad habit haha

[@ex-x7079]

Its sad that Moky faces harassment after that. Trash ppl always seem to find a way in, when something gets popular.

[@sirhawkjames]

TOs need to nut up and be the bad guy. It’s that simple. Forfeit game, forfeit stock it don’t really matter. What matters is that TOs should be the bottom line and they pussed out and gave that responsibility to one of the only two people you should not give that responsibility to.

[@Nawakooo0]

I think the basic easy solution is if you can get another controller it's a game loss, and if you can't it's obviously a set loss

[@SmittyWerbenJag3rmanJenson]

Ignoring the possibiliy of console failure being the cause isn't acceptable.

[@Killopotamus]

@@SmittyWerbenJag3rmanJensonYeah i think you're talking about two different aspects

[@wippokeman]

I think the literal action that needed to happen is that moky should have wailed on jmooks sheik when his controller broke as if jmook dropped his controller mid set. It doesn’t need to be as complicated as an accidental pause or power outage, it’s a situation that can happen game 1 or game 5 so sadly it needs to be treated the same during any game.

[@ru2528]

fete 3 by the sea is a tournament in the UK, Fete is a french word and it's not a big deal by any means just thought i'd give ya a heads up

[@StarkDoes]

Yeeee if you check the comments I've gotten it quite a few times! I appreciate letting me know! That's my bad!!

[@deejaychainwallet]

literally no one moves, the game pauses, if you dont have a controller you get a basic oem from someone and it rules or sucks but thats on you for not bringing a backup. unpause and finish set.

[@roblikestoskate]

This is the only correct answer tbh

[@melee9183]

If a controller breaks and you cant just grab another one in your bag or something then you should lose the game. It sucks this can happen but you cant play melee with a broken controller and if you dont have a working controller thats no one elses responsibility but the competitor.

[@Ruckus790]

I think the port should be tested and if the console caused the controller to malfunction then the game should be replayed or possibly replicate the game state as close as possible.if the controller is nonfunctioning on another console then it should definitely be a auto loss for that player.

[@KalebSDay]

I played a game before checking ports and just dash dancing was causing me to short hop. Turns out that port was bad. Luckily my opponent was cool with letting me changing ports and just letting me take my own stock at the start of the game to even it to where things were. Now I always want to check the ports before a match lol.

[@scrapboi45]

In SF, if your controller/stick dies, YOU are responsible for getting a replacement. Or you Forfeit the Set. I legit thought that was just a standard rule in All Fighting Games. This is why you always pack a backup controller when you travel to tourneys.

[@Narfinat0r]

It is the player’s responsibility to make sure their equipment is in working order. Here are my suggested rule changes regarding controller changing in the event of a failure: Time between matches, known as an “interim” or “intermission”, shall be no more than half of the designated match time. (e.g. If the ruleset calls for eight (8) minute matches, the maximum intermission between matches shall be four (4) minutes.) Counterpicks must happen within this time frame. If a player is not present for the next match of the set at the end of the interim, they forfeit the next match. Upon forfeit (must be announced by a TO) another interim time limit begins. If a player is not present at the end of this second interim period, they forfeit the set. Players may change out their controller at any time during the set. If a controller change is done during a match, the player that changes out their controller must immediately forfeit a full, undamaged (0%) stock. If the player changing their controller does not forfeit a stock during the match, or damages their opponent before forfeiting a stock, they forfeit the match. If a controller change is made in the interim between matches, no stocks need to be forfeited, but the player will only be allowed the maximum interim time outlined above to change their controller. “Handwarmers” may be played within the interim time if agreed upon by both players. Reinserting an unintentionally unplugged controller will be considered a controller change.

[@ClassicBentobox]

The best thing for viewers is replay game, the best thing for competitors is automatic game loss. The sweet spot is replaying the last stock, but the most realistically enforceable is the game loss.

[@arthritis1999]

Why wouldn't replaying the last stock work? Just bring both players back to their original stock counts when the interruption occured and go from there. Or have a relay device on the line, where if it detects a 5v dropout, it instantly sends the pause command to the wii/GC to stop play immediately.

[@DesTr069]

Amazing video! Great coverage of the topic. I really have no clue what’s best here. Because if there is a console malfunction that prevents your controller from working, having to lose the game or the set just sucks for everyone. But replaying the game is also not perfect. Very tricky

[@StarkDoes]

If it's confirmed to be the console I think this would add an interesting angle into the movement into alternative and heavily modified controllers

[@WhosKite]

just another reason I'm not a fan of these frankenstein controllers. OEM has never had this issue.

[@prizm9515]

Yeah, that situation with Moky was handled totally wrong. A player should never be put in that kind of position. Any time a game is started if one player for whatever reason can't finish a game, they should forfeit the game. If they can't find a new controller in less than 2 minutes then they forfeit the set.

[@x9x9x9x9x9]

American made phobs and europe dont mix well especially if they are owned by Jmook. I dont understand why some people have such bad luck with phobs. I built my own and its been great. It was a pain to build but once it was done its been flawless. But it might not matter in a few months depending on how nintendo does things. They might ban all phobs and boxes from licensed tournaments, which that rule would not hold up in court since nintendo does not make/sell gamecube controllers anymore. Anyways as for the ruling if your controller dies that late in a game the game should be forfeited for whoever's controller broke. I am not a Moky fan but had he said no it would have done too much harm to his reputation. If it was just a rule then he doesn't look like the bad guy.

[@Prikense]

I think players and TOs should have extra controllers for situations like this, its not like a broken finger or hand that warrants a forfeit, and sometimes its unknowable when a controller will fail so a full forfeit is too much imo, I think resuming as is in the case of an accidental SD for malfunctioning or giving a stock that would not win the game is enough punish for something that realistically is out of your control

[@silentwater9058]

What Hbox suggested was'nt a bad idea though (controller that is plugged in, is the controller to use until the "game" sign appears

[@XGDragon]

Seems like a relatively simple solution to me. A broken controller mid-set likely will result in the player losing a stock. After this, the other player should directly hit pause, and the broken controller can be replaced with a backup, then continue play with a lost stock. If the player has no backup, they forfeit.

[@mtmage]

Poor guy, I rlly hope he doesn’t think about quitting

[@Teapose]

Responding to Dylan's tweet: It doesn't matter how people would respond to a TO going by the rules and giving a game loss due to controller malfunction, people are idiots and assholes and just want a good comeback opportunity regardless of how fair it is to either player, and they always want a "go agane" ruling. By putting it on the rules to make that call, who cares what the crowd thinks. The rules are set, and you abide. Don't like it, stop spectating ancient games played on ancient hardware. Now if they wanna go again for POSTERITY, that's something else, and can help the crowd get a feel for what might have been.

[@SqueakyKIA]

I didn't realize this was a player made decision? That's entirely brainless. Game loss easily.

[@davidcardona2133]

I wasn't amazing during my time playing in tournaments, but I had my moments and for the entire 1st year of me playing competitively I played with basically a broken controller 😅 I remember this one match I had my shield button didn't work at all and none of my air dodges or shield would come out and after losing an early stock I told my opponent. Obviously he didn't believe me and said a smart ass comment so I proceeded to "smash" my shield button about 20+ times with 1 hand in front of him and nothing happened 🙃

[@tankster27]

I don't remember the EVO set for street fighter 4. However, somewhere in the loser's brackets during top 8 there was a controller break, and that player was forced to give up a round forcing a last game situation. However, it took so long to get a controller replacement that one lost steam and ended up being eliminated. You may want to look up that story. As for the game itself seeing that it was on a last stock situation it should have been played on the last stock situation or an auto forfeit. Game wasn't warranted for a restart in my opinion, but what did I know? I'm not a competitor.

[@StarkDoes]

Going to search this up, sounds like a relevant and very interesting story in its own right

[@brodieorr5393]

Yeah that's definitely a good point. By forcing the decision on players, you're putting the player between a rock and a hard place.. This would be absolutely unbelievable in traditional sports

[@PhantomAarantula]

Hard not to feel mad for moky. That's not fair to him to have to make a difficult decision for tournament rules. He should just have to focus on winning the game with the TOs focusing on making sure the tournament progresses smoothly. Much love to Jmook for standing up for Moky though.

[@misieuroo]

Fête, despite having a French name, is an English tournament.

[@StarkDoes]

Another comment let me know, I completely forgot, so thank you!!!

[@FeelinGood21]

My thought process is that we're (jmook and moky) gonna play numerous times after this tournament so i see no reason why taking the win this one time would've been so bad tbh

[@FeelinGood21]

Especially for something that happened before to jmook. Moky was literally at the finish line, but I guess we'll just have to wait for next time

[@3Starinvideot]

Tournaments or players should have a backup controller easily accessible in case this happens. I don't think it's fair to punish the player for something that wasn't their fault, but it's also something that directly impacts the opponent as well. There's many possible solutions to resolve these issues but I think it should be done case by case, and standardise those case specific rulings to evey tournament going forward. The ruling might technically be consistent if the player whose controller breaks loses the game every time, but it's also unfair if they were clearly winning the game before it happened.

[@IfNedWereHere]

I like the idea if your sh*t breaks the game goes on until your opponent can find input that works and plug it in. Seems funny af to me to watch a dude scramble for a new input while their character is getting their *ss beat 😂😂😂

[@elhadjtall3627]

They are both good players. Something’s are out of our control sometimes. Like port priority or how Brawl had the tripping mechanic. I would just considerate it divine intervention of the God of Melee in these cases.

[@roblikestoskate]

Bring extra controllers. If you can hotswap a fresh one in during a game, that should be allowed. Otherwise forfeit the game. EZ

[@ewancrow7020]

Fete 3 was in the UK not France

[@StarkDoes]

Big ups! Thanks for the Intel

[@nath700]

@@StarkDoes It's also pronounced "fate", tis a french word.

[@KalebSDay]

Every time I tune into a Moky stream or see stream highlights he is saying how his mental is getting better. I really don't get forfeiting your last game when there is just a one stock difference though and that tweet was wild lol. I know he can sometimes use his anger to fuel his play to make people shut up in his mind, hope he finds something sustainable to not crumble down the line again haha.

[@Technohunter682]

I think it should be approached differently depending on who is found at fault, either way the player with the functioning controller should beat their opponent in game (I feel like asking the player with the functioning controller to alt f4 can lead to weird rulesharking and the risk of that should be eliminated). If the setup is found to be faulty, the game is replayed as it is neither players fault. If a players controller is faulty it should be a game loss and the player has X amount of time to procure another controller (having a spare ready, borrowing a spectators gcc, buying one, I don't care how) otherwise its a DQ as it is technically their fault regardless of how unfortunate it is. The time would be like 5 minutes but I could see it being different considering how long it takes for players to lose their "warmness" or you could offer handwarmers before the next game, the specifics would make more sense done by someone smarter than me but I think the overall outline is objectively the best way of handling the situation.

[@ThunderEternal]

In all honesty, majors and super majors need to leave these decisions up to the rules officials and the tournament organizers. If officials can't come to a consensus then the organizers needs to step in and make a decision. This scenario should not ever be put on the players due to bias and conflict of interest.

[@razerian674]

Nice video. Heir was in England btw.

[@StarkDoes]

Thanks for looking out 🙏

[@Siijsing]

woah its me at 9:40 LMAO ggs

[@StarkDoes]

AYEEE ggs, you smoked me in many games

[@Siijsing]

@@StarkDoes you def had my number, sick games!! n excellent vid shawty

[@apurpledragon]

A month late on this video but here's a new rule I'd enforce, tournaments should have 4-5 backup controllers for contastants if their controller malfunctions and/or breaks mid game. If the original controller broke and they're using the temporary one the game (not the whole set) must be restarted and played to completion. Once the contastant is out of the tournament or they win they must return the controller back to where it was.

[@TrevsTreehouse]

I think in Jmooks case you could replay last stock because they were both at 0 anyways and you could just do a neutral reset. However, if one player was at 67% etc and his controller broke and the other was 0 I would say he has to forfeit stock and therefore game if it's last stock. I think the person who isn't in question should also be able to gentleman game reset if they want. I think the rule should be replay stock count as even as can be and reset game if both players want to agree on that. It's not really someone's fault if their controller breaks . Shit happens but I also think TOs should check to see if their controller is actually broken just in case 😊

[@BenjoCovers]

If you allow gentlemen then you basically have the situation that just happened. The player facing blame if they dont gentlemen, therefor having to choose between winning and being the bad guy

[@MiamiTots]

should be TOs call. never leave that in the hands of the players because someone is looked down on no matter the decision made. Moky had all right to be pissed after that.

[@GlizzyGoblin-wu5ps]

Mew2King and his controller backpack are laughing at this. Absolutely players fault for not having a backup or even asking the crowd to get a controller loan.

[@5gods]

That bag was hype

[@tgamagedon]

I think unless a player without any prompting is adamant about rules not being enforced in their favor, the default assumption of TOs should be that they have to enforce rules as written and that they have to take responsibility for their ruleset.

[@RedPandaSmash]

Players are responsible for having functional controllers for the duration of their tournaments, but it isn't so easy to set a standard when consoles and controller adapters malfunction, which are not the players' responsibility. I think that a stock loss, game loss, or replay of the game makes the most sense, but that's definitely up to TOs and it's hard to know what to do when the issue isn't totally clear. Penalizing players for hardware malfunctions that might be a failing on equipment that isn't their own is wrong, but being fair to the player who didn't suffer the malfunction is equally important. In this situation, it would be most fair to moky if he had just been given the win for that game.

[@ProbablyBarney]

i'm sure this video's great, but can you please turn the general volume of everything up - the video starts out super quiet and your voice gets quieter only a minute in, and i literally cannot watch it 😵‍💫

[@StarkDoes]

Yes!!!

[@CurvyKirby2.-]

I do not have this problem

[@BlueSilentOcean980]

Lmao the Phineas and Ferb reference

[@user-uo9yb2qx8z]

Why is it breaking? Is it not a normal gc controller?

[@Daimondz1239]

No, most top players use ultra customized $400 controllers that inexplicably break on a weekly basis

[@brimmed]

Dang didn't know any of this. You're right, Moky prob didn't want to look an a-hole just taking the win and forcing jmook out, or at least wanted to. seem like a nice guy. I doubt anyone would blame him for doing it, but I get why he'd agree to it. But either way, it seems baffling to me that they don't have a simple rule to follow like player who's controller breaks forfeits a stock, assuming the controller breaking didn't cause him to lose the stock. Then swap them and play on. Maybe giving some kind of handicap would work too, like restart game with 3 stocks for jmook. Idk kinda just spitballing

[@thescribe509]

Why is this handled outside of game? If the game becomes unplayable as the result of a totally broken controller (not malfuntioning, not unplugged, simply totally inoperable) like this, count it like a timeout, except if the opponent has a higher stock count, they win the game, and if the stocks are even or ahead for the player with the malfunctioning controller, the game is replayed. Minimize the competitive advantage gained or lost from hardware malfunctions wherever possible, and this is how you do it. You earned that win if your opponent's stuff broken when you had a lead, and your opponent didn't earn a loss when their controller broke with a lead. It just makes sense. Also, making it so that the player with the malfunction can't win as a result makes it abuse-resistant.

[@DrunkenHotei]

I think it's obvious that a player shouldn't be the one to decide on how to enforce or make up de facto rules on the spot. Name another sport where such a thing has ever happened, if you can. I see nothing wrong personally with having a rule to allow for a single backup controller to be used only when it can be demonstrated that the first has failed. To ensure it's not a console issue, I would say what would have been fair in this case would have been to give Jmook his hypothetical backup controller, reset the stock count to what it was when he noticed the problem, and continue the match from there.

[@blank_ivysaur]

To be fair smash has a long history of gentleman rules so it’s not unprecedented and in fact in several games we have gentleman agreements for stages completely run the game

[@chullupa]

I think if a controller breaks, the TO should make it a best of 7

[@nyra007]

A bit late to this party, but if the controllers need the 5v line to function they need to just start using external power.

[@jagojuice9133]

idk why this is difficult. if u pause during game u lose a stock. if controller breaks/unplugs game done.

[@FishSauc]

If you show up to golf with wooden clubs thats on you

[@inphlox]

If the TO wants to give Moky agency, then an appropriate response would be to hand down a ruling (Jmook forfeit) and respect Moky's objection should he offer it. By not making a decision, it looks like the TO doesn't want to be the bad guy in front of a Jmook fanclub. Kinda spineless.

[@fredjpg]

controller breaks should def be a stock/game loss moky shouldve gone to grands in that situation, yes it sucks that jmooks controller stopped working but it should be the same thing as disconnecting your controller or pausing which has been a rule in the past(at least i think it was, recalling leffen forcing scar to sd in doubles when he paused trying to take a stock from his teammate). This decision completely derails the set and changes the outcome compared to if the controller had never broken in the first place

[@Supertaldo916]

I remember people calling Hbox grimey when his controller died against Jmook and now everyone is shitting on Moky lmao. The decision shouldn’t be made by any of the players, because if it happens to me, I am not going to let some mishap deny me of winning, which means prize pool money. If it happens to someone who is playing against me, I don’t want to look like an asshole. Idk if set loss is the best solution, but any solution should not be decided by any of the players. Now, what if it is a problem with the console? I think that opens a whole new can of worms. If I’m a TO, and I have to make someone like HBox or Mang0 lose a set because the setup decided to be a pos, I’d feel really pressured to make that call, because of the public backlash it would mean (you know how “emotional” melee players are when they lose, and how mindless their fanbases are). If it keeps happening, should TO’s ban controllers that rely on the extra power from the rumble chord? That would effectively ban almost every other controller out there.

[@skylersprouse1408]

Whatever happens to the rule set, please keep in mind that a kill switch could be placed on the controller. I get that we want to keep the spirit of competition alive and situations like this rest heavily on good will, but if you give to much favor to the player with the malfunctioning controller, then player's will be incentivized to have a malfunctioning controller. Based on this, it's unreasonable to replay any game with a malfunctioning controller and it should be considered to end the set. I get that it's hard to get hardware for a 25 year old console that performs at a competitive level, but that's part of the game. If the console is found to be faulty, I expect an apology to Moky and Jmook from the TO's and to have the set and all following sets that would be affected if a different outcome is a result of this replayed on LAN on the TO's dollar. Also, a little disappointed in Jmook as this isn't the first time this has happened to him and should be prepared with a second controller, especially if it's from the same source as his first. Given the circumstances, both controller's should be investigated and Jmook should receive a warning that a set loss would be the result of another malfunctioning controller.

[@Sweetluckk]

If this issue is really a Jmook controller malfunction over and over again then the issue is jmook and his choice of controllers , the situation should really be jmook needing to switch to a more reliable controller .

[@etiennenormand233]

Hey ! Just so you can do better research next time: - Fête was never in France. It was in the UK. These are two different countries, although both in europe. - Almost as quickly as he tweeted his speculations, Nuckels said the wii was not the problem. The paracord would be to blame (which is to me the most realistic thing that happened). - Crowd did cheer for Jmook, as well as Moky. There was no pressure put onto him while the incident happened.

[@StarkDoes]

Hey! Many comments have already commented about it being a UK tournament. Happy to hear. I wouldn't phrase it as almost as quickly as the update came several days later after the prominence of the discussion. I admire the hindsight knowledge you're offering! I don't think I was arguing that no one was cheering for moky, but that for HIM, he was spiraling with what happened on top of the crowd cheering for JMook whenever he hit moky with something cool! I don't think it's up to you to determine if pressure was put onto Moky since it's literally what he said he felt when it happened! Thanks for your insights!

[@IcePrincessZeroK]

Id say stock loss and its not a declinable penalty. If the stock loss would cost the player whose controller malfunctioned the game then it costs them the game. If the game costs them the set they lose the set. That said, if its the ports on the console that would be unfair. I guess for majors have a way to test the controller port itself for malfunction. If the 5v rumble line fails that often maybe controller makers should make controllers not rely on it or get additional power... somewhere else.

[@zomoki]

jer,a...

[@Dzuh]

great video, but no way my man thinks fete 3 was in france 😭

[@StarkDoes]

IT WAS A MISTAKE BRO😭

[@HeroC14]

If it's the Wii's fault, the owner of the Wii should get 50 lashes, then they play as the coop partner to whomever had the broken controller for one stick l stock then SD. I do like Juan's take. You have to play with the controller for that game, otherwise you lose that game. If it's not the last game, a button check needs to occur immediately if the player gets a backup controller under 5 minutes in the same port or the effected player can pick another port lower than the one they had but not higher.

[@DrewZGmusic]

Why not just start again on the same stage with the same stock count? That’s what I do at locals if the game crashes or something, replaying the whole damn set is hella unfair to whoever is up in the set and just a waste of time in general

[@orionparsons7631]

This especially sucks because theyre trying too nerf the boxx

[@feelsokayman5656]

b0XX is the future

[@TramiNguyen-oi3kp]

Awesome Super Smash Brothers Melee!

[@nontoxic9960]

Its far too complicated to do it any other way than to end the match. You would need the same percents and number of stocks to be 100% fair. The entire momentum and planning of the players would be completely reset and the outcomes would change with that... if you have a second controller, game loss, if not, set loss.

[@carlthewellendowed]

And if you really want to get into the weeds, this wouldnt even be fair, as you wont be gettung your moves back to the same level of stale you had before the interruption.

[@nontoxic9960]

@@carlthewellendowed Good point!

[@_willianturner]

If you controler broke, then u can't finish the game, therefore you already lost it anyway.... It must be game-loss.

[@p00p00king]

Two things can be true, the rules suck and moky is a baby saltlord

[@EluneMusic]

Ay regardless moky a fuckin real one for that

[@MaxCoplan]

Great video, but why did it take you six minutes to make your point?

[@StarkDoes]

The video is so much more than making my point, if you wanted just my point you could have just messaged me or watched a KZbin short

[@TheBasileman]

Videos like these are all about telling a story, it's the same reason why they didn't break out Thanos in the first Iron Man movie

[@MaxCoplan]

@@StarkDoes That makes sense. I am a Melee enjoyer and when I read the title “This is how Melee Rulesets are HURTING Melee”, I wanted to hear which rules and how they hurt Melee. If you had opened the video with “last week, Jmook and Mokey…” it would have been faster for me to figure that out.

[@StarkDoes]

@MaxCoplan I appreciate the response! I think that understanding the tournament happenings and current tensions around controllers is vital as fellow melee enthusiasts to really grasp some of the important emotions and perspectives at play. Happy to hear your side, and I appreciate hearing mine out!

[@mostlyharmless11]

jerma

[@StarkDoes]

You are so right

[@LockandLaugh]

You should just be prepared for the worst and bring another controller.

[@SKITZ_MONEY]

fete 3 was in the uk not france btw

[@StarkDoes]

TY for letting me know!

[@roundupssbm]

Fête 3 was in the uk, not in france :)

[@StarkDoes]

Thank you to you and the other several dozen comments that let me know! I appreciate the looking out🙏

[@Omaga297]

To your point of moky being “iced”, wasn’t jmook not only “iced” himself but also has the disadvantage of being forced to use a new controller mid set?

[@StarkDoes]

A player should not have to wait 20 minutes for their opponent to get a new controller, it's not a matter of skill or comparing who has it worse but instead how what happened created factors that tainted the set and the momentum that was building! And hopefully that makes it a little clearer about why moky would be so upset about this

[@SillySpaceMonkey]

Jmook was actively engaged in the doing of a thing the whole time, though. Icing someone is taking someone on a hot streak and breaking their focus by forcing them to do nothing. Say you're playing Mario Party with friends and someone midgame has to run to their car for whatever... they have a very easy time unpausing and dropping right back into the flow of the game, cus it never really stopped, for them - it just got a bonus objective. For everyone else, the game stops for whatever arbitrary amount of time that person MIGHT be gone, and when the game unpauses they're completely lost. I didn't state that the best, I hope the point came across okay

[@matthewthompson8625]

How does bro still not have a second controller lmao

[@blksmiith]

mhmm your 400$ modded controller breaking mhmmmm maybe just use a stock controller

[@scruffy1471]

wouldn't it make more sense to have opponent be able to attack the character in cases where controller disconnects. During this time the person who's controller disconnected would have the opportunity to connect their replacement, and if no instant replacement is available they are forced to lose the game. After this game forfeit they would have certain amount of time to get replacement controller before they forfeit the set.This would incentives players to have two controllers at all times plus this doesn't take the momentum away from the other player.

[@ex-x7079]

Yes Extra remotes should be something the player should be prepared for always. Especially if you're a professional who is traveling. It all boils down to their responsibility. But regardless even though this bit Moky in the ass pretty hard. I'd hope this event changes some things.

[@johnbennett2152]

It should definitely be a game loss if the controller is malfunctioning. Also, what's up with top players not having a spare controller ON THEM at tournaments? It seems so unbelievably negligent given the extensive controller issues our community has experienced. If you wana have a sponsor and play melee full time, be responsible about it and take accountability for being prepared in instances where things don't go according to plan.

[@ff7fanboi]

Naa we take those

[@GhillieGuide]

#FreeIceClimbers #UnbanWobbling

[@ratatata9450]

Great content but Fête is actually NOT a French but an English event

[@StarkDoes]

I appreciate your reply! Trust me when I say I've gotten several comments about it and appreciate catching the error!

[@johns3713]

Always great to see more melee content but you need to re-evaluate how you script. I didn’t know what happened at the tournament and had to wait until 5 minutes in to learn what instance your video is actually about. I know you probably wrote this specifically for a melee audience but you should keep in mind how to draw in other viewers and keep your video entertaining. Your actual discourse is great; balanced and nuanced while explaining the pressures on Moky, it just takes too long to get there.

[@StarkDoes]

KZbin shorts might prove better for that type of quick right to the point answer, I appreciate sharing!

[@ivysd4350]

Fete isn’t a French tournament lol

[@StarkDoes]

Thanks for the new Intel captain 🫡

[@crystalbeth420]

Just as you called Fete a french tournament multiple times I just want to say. Fete took place in England. Not in France! Its the EU air doing it not specificially the french Lmao

[@StarkDoes]

Hey you're right! And several people before your comment have let me know! And I hope you can understand that regardless, it wasn't actually blaming France (or anywhere) for anything!

[@crystalbeth420]

@@StarkDoes I know just continuing the joke with the air lmao. Didn’t see the other comments sorry for repeating

[@StarkDoes]

@@crystalbeth420 all good🙏🙏 thank you for letting me know still and I appreciate continuing the bit!

[@iamUnskilled]

Sadly it looks like jmook has wreck it ralph hands or sum

[@d.s.alcoda]

This is the objectively correct rule: 1. You forfeit UNLESS you have a controller immediately available 2. You do not get to spend time button testing. Have a good spare you've worn in. 3. If you were on spawn platform, ledge, or a similar invincible position, recreate the situation and positioning and continue 4. If otherwise, recreate situation and opponent gets a free punish (close to a free stock but means you may not lose a whole stock at 0% for no reason)

[@Accrovideogames]

Enforcing a game loss for something that is completely out of your control is way too unfair. It should just be forfeiting the current stock.