This is Why WoW Can't Get New Players

[@hatthebear]

Well seems as though I made some mistakes here. I hereby rescind my criticisms of exiles reach on account of me being dumb. Also I did not realize new players don't get a choice in leveling zones so that's even worse than I thought. Overall I still stand by what I said about scaling, By the time you reach 50 you will be massively undergeared if you don't have heirlooms.

[@TyrantForge]

​@Shenanigoons that may be the case but with how fast the leveling process is in the game new players wouldn't know that, think of it from the perspective of playing the game for the first time. The fact that newer players wouldn't know that you needed to grind for extra gear when they want to get to end game content you would do your grind when you hit max level. The game should provide appropriate items through quests to keep up with the leveling process. I came back to the game last month and leveled a character from the start without heirlooms and I was even getting annoyed that most quests didn't provide appropriate loot for my situations. So I ended up dungeon grinding for gear and I out leveled the zone I was in instantly after a few of them. They need to stop benefiting players that have played for years and offer better loot in the way of quests so people enjoy the experience more.

[@monkeyjames9285]

Will say from experience playing mage frost damage from personal experience is sh arcane pump but got learn mana stuff but think learn arcane pump damage. Feel frost more casual friendly at cost damage typically

[@jacobbrackett3568]

Wait am I missing something? They don't get a choice in leveling zones? Can't you use Chromie to go to any xpac and zone you want?

[@princezuko179]

@@jacobbrackett3568 On a new account, you automatically choose exiles reach as a starting zone and after that you're forced to play through bfa. Chromie is for people who have reached max lvl on atleast one character. Thats how it works for new players, I think

[@DaFreezeey]

@@monkeyjames9285 lololol Wtf did you even just say? XD Engrish hard

[@TrueXyrael]

The worst part about the "Chosen One" storytelling is if you haven't been playing the game constantly since around Cataclysm, or you're a completely new player, you're being credited with all these huge accomplishments you didn't do. I've never claimed to be a 101st Airborne veteran but every time someone calls me the champion I feel like I've stolen somebodies valor. Here I am, a Zandalari Troll who hasn't been in the Horde for more than 3 expansions, and you're telling me I did things I literally couldn't have done because my race wasn't in the Horde then. Alexstrasza literally said she and I went way back like homies and I've never done a quest for her.

[@keklord5817]

underrated comment

[@TheLadyKemet]

I mean, I love the Zandalari, but they should have different phrases the Horde and Alliance allied races. They are new, it breaks the immersion.

[@sarnem5330]

Destiny did the same. I stopped playing for 6 months and came back. Was being told I did all this great stuff I didn't even know the first thing about.

[@reffa2858]

NPCs: You're The Chosen One! The Chosen One(?): Who are you people!?

[@adorellangreynore]

Yeah, for a role-playing game, it's not very rp friendly

[@SolaisY]

You touched on some good bits, but oh boy, you are not aware how bad it REALLY is for a completely new player! I recently tried to get my gf into the game, she liked some MMOs before, like FF14 and all that, and was interested in an MMO with more dynamic gameplay, but, just to point out, she never played any Warcraft games before. So, she did look up some stuff, and she really wanted to make a Void Elf character, as she really resonated with how they look. Turns out... as a new player, the choice isn't even there, not even grayed out! Then she starts the game, and the new player doesn't get the choice, you are automatically put on Exile's Reach. That went mostly well, the new quests and tutorials do tell you how to open the spell book and drag the spell on the hotbar, the only problems were some weird graphical glitches that never happened to me before. However what she had problems with how small the UI was by default, and even with the new more customizable UI, still can't resize the minimap, which was very small for her and pretty useless, and in general everything was really hard to see for her. The outlines around NPCs are hard to see as well, so she set it back to the old sparkles which are more easier to see. For the rest, I had explain what are addons, how they are not banned like in FF14, and how everything Blizzard didn't fix is actually fixed by them. So after wasting a lot of time for her to assemble an actual player friendly UI, she completed Exile's Reach... and turns out, what you say is not true. "You are guided towards BFA, so new players will likely choose that." NOPE! New players cannot choose! They are automatically put inside BFA! And suddenly my gf was utterly confused! "Who's this Jaina? Why am I an ambassador, summoned by the king personally? I thought I was just a recruit? Or am I an adventurer? Why are all the soldiers in the castle duplicated, standing inside each other?" (Apparently there's a phasing bug in the Stormwind Castle for new players who are starting BFA.) She was so confused about the cutscenes about some characters she never met before having emotional moments while her character was nowhere to be found in them! In Kul Tiras she almost quit the game, because she just felt the game is hollow, not explaining anything, why she is even there, what she is doing. There were too many quests pointing towards everywhere in the zone with no indication what would be the main story that, by all accounts of the game, she should be following and making sense what it was. She then quit the game out of confusion. In the end, she decided to play it again with my help, with a weird-ass thing we pulled: Quickly leveled her up to maximum, then skipped through Legion to unlock Void Elf for her (because apparently you still need to go through almost the entire expansion to do that). Then, we made new level 10 characters, and started... in Cataclysm/Old World, from the Human starting area. And she loved that so much more! Why? "Because I actually start as some noname adventurer, killing wolves." The world is explained to her piece by piece, sure there's not a big bombastic story where she's the main character, but that doesn't matter, because she feels a lot more immersed in the world now that she can just explore it for her own leisure, following the trail of simple quests with simple goals, learning the little bits about the world and the people that live in it, making it a lot more personal experience. She is annoyed that she is leveling too fast, especially because I know that once she hits 60, the game forcefully ejects her from Chromie Time, making everything weak and too easy, so we decided to lock our characters at 59, and go through all expansions in order, so she can get to that part where she finally feels like the Big Goddamn Hero BFA expects her to be. But all this was just because I was there to guide her. The way the game works right now, it was made for existing players to quickly level new alts, not to actually make new players play the game and get into the game. The so-called "better" new leveling experience to make the game faster to get to the new content actively turns away new players from the game; at least those who go into the game with the expectation that they will be playing an MMORPG, with a world they can enjoy and immerse inside.

[@kaakrepwhatever]

It always feels strange when my new level 10 goes to a new zone, where he becomes the champion, the hero, the savior of Azeroth.

[@alikashef1983]

But blizzard is doing more important things like stopping the gold sellers so they can sell it with wow token, or ban boosters so they can sell "upgrades" and save the integrity of the game

[@azzarash]

This is actually a good point. Blizz needs to rethink the game for new players. And maybe even reforge the whole world to be more actual for any kind of player

[@johnnybarbell]

The issue is blizzard is so money hungry they are killing the game themselves. So much revolves around buying the $60 boost. Instead of making a decent leveling experience, lets make it hard, or you know, you can just buy that boost wink wink

[@alikashef1983]

@@johnnybarbell what's annoying me is the fact that they say whatever changes they make is to save the integrity of the game and give ppl the nostalgic experience for classic while they sell gold and boost themselves

[@UmbralDweller]

New player experience: - You're on a boat, look out ogres! - Skip to 7th expansion. - Now you're a well respected diplomat for Ally/Horde. - Pushed out of expansion before you finish the narrative. - Now you're like a messiah to godlike entities.

[@FluffySylveonBoi]

Don't forget the walls of Chinese text!

[@eddgrs9193]

This is exactly what I felt after trying WoW again since WotlK. The whole Messiah thing is so off-putting. But I guess this is what modern gamers want to think of themselves.

[@control4230]

I tried WOW about five years ago, my friend was quite heavily invested in it and I thought it would be fun to imerse myself into the lore and hang out with my buddy. My main memories are of being ignored by other players who were just rushing here there and everywhere to level up, hub areas being largely deserted and then being shouted at in chat for not knowing the most efficient way to run a dungeon that I had never played before. I did stick it out for a few months but the general lack of direction put me off and I never went back.

[@CazaDeYork]

WoW as a whole is problematic, but Dragonflight is just a good game.

[@gamarleton]

The WoW community is largely pretty toxic. There's this issue where people assume something is common knowledge just because they personally learned it a long time ago. These are screaming morons who can't quite consider other people's perspective and don't take that fact into consideration and stop themselves from screaming at people. Sorry you had to deal with those. There's good people in there too, it can vary from server to server. What used to be strictly PvP servers would have more of the non communicating and toxic type, what used to be strictly PvE servers would have a bit less of the toxic mindset but still has some, what is still the RP servers have a lot more ppl who are considerate and don't come there just to rush through the game but to actually socially interact as well, so you'll have a better overall social experience with those servers.

[@dfuher968]

So sorry to hear about ur experience. Unfortunately the community has changed a lot over the years. Back in Vanilla it was a much harder game, and we were all in it together. Ppl respected each other, if u asked for advice in chat, multiple ppl would do their best to assist u. If u asked for help with a quest, u couldnt get done, ppl would come help u, just coz they could. Etc etc. I really miss that, and I can see, how bad it would be for some1 new, who didnt experience the gradual change. Its bad enough for me, and Ive been on the entire journey. U might want to try WoW Classic. Its not quite the same as back then, but the community is much more mature than in retail, and ppl are generally there for the levelling experience and having an enjoyable time playing, not to be dicks in chat. U also get a much better introduction to the lore and the characters, than u would going into retail so many expansions in, tho as I said, its a much harder game, so prepare to die a lot. Its no shame, just learn from it - and feel safe to ask for help 😉

[@barrelracer318]

Being a hard headed pve tank. I know exactly what you mean with dungeons. I have not run any new dungeons yet. Im tired of being kicked because I ask the party to point me in the right direction. Very few seem to have any patience in this game lately. I would have dropped things if my old guild master from cata wasnt still playing. He has been giving me pointers, but not trying to act like a brain leach, I have not been hounding him to catch me up. How the heckie am I supposed to learn the dungeon if no one will tolerate someone who hasnt run it to you know... Learn to run it. WoW can be, and is fun to play. But the community and these dumb play ideas blizzard keeps pushing really makes the game a stuggle and an absolute learning barrier on its own. The profession system is so convoluted now. Im basically just collecting mats and putting them in AH. And I had max BS skill when I stopped playing at the drop of MOP.

[@arisuaozora]

Thats the same reason i went to ffxiv and never come back. Once you are in the japanese servers, you will see how friendly they are.

[@kevak1236]

I started WoW about a year after 1st release after playing Everquest for about 5-6 years (yes, I'm old 😉). I had a blast for several years before binning it on Mists of Pandaria, literally before even completing the leveling part. I went back on a classic server a few years ago after they released Burning Crusadeand played to the (almost) end of Burning Crusade and again, sacked it just as they released Sunwell. I was in a decent, non-hardcore, middling level guild My major annoyance was the whole equipment grind, the meta seems to be to race to highest level as fast as possible, grind normal dungeons for good gear, to grind heroic dungeons for better gear, grind dailies for gear, to grind raids for good gear and for more raids to come along to grind for even better gear and even grind older dungeons for incredibly rare drops (mounts) - notice a theme here? 🙂 On my second visit to WoW i thought, "WTF am I doing - waiting for raid lockouts to expire so I can try, once again, to get a drop I never see" and then only having a 1 in 5 chance of getting it (yes, I know about DKP, same shit, different grind). Also, the elitism and amount of toxicity I saw, especially on my second visit put me off. Everyone racing to beat every dungeon in the shortest possible time frame. Quit the game, deleted WoW and closed account. I won't go back - I have no idea what the answer is, just showing my thought process for my reason to quit.

[@Sizdothyx]

It's not really the game anymore, is it? It's the community. The people you meet aren't the people you would make plans to visit Blizzcon with but ultimately never do. The "now now now" culture has ruined MMOs in general. Multiplayer used to be something special; now it's a requirement.

[@jasonguysr7938]

Yeah I agree played wow for about 10yrs community is toxic guilds are not what they use to be even they have become toxic. I enjoy ffxiv much better

[@ToxicallyMasculinelol]

wow has by far the most toxic community I've ever seen anywhere in my life. arguably more toxic than pre-Cortes Aztec Empire

[@minnaraiha2979]

Putting yourself into shoes of a new player is what nobody does in this game, well done man!

[@MrKrewie]

Not even the devs apparently

[@davidepannone6021]

He played dungeons as a veteran knowing what you were doing. I can ASSURE you 90% of new players (and im not talking about alts) get either kicked or people leave leaving you all alone. Or you spawn in a half completed dungeon and you have NO IDEA where to even go as most people use shortcuts anyways so mobs are still roaming in zones new player wouldn't know how to skip. Wow is pretty much unplayable as a true mmorpg for TRUE new players. Unless you have at least a veteran friend that can guide you, and even then you're playing a co op game for the most part AT BEST. Even joining a guild won't change anything. Nobody ever speak or say hi when they enter/leave, nobody answer when you ask questions nor nobody do content together.

[@Enigma1788]

Kudos to anyone that attempts to do this, but it's still ultimately a flawed experiment. You can't turn off 5-18+ years of previous knowledge, and as much as anyone tries to do this, you're still going to have the knowledge of where to go, what to do, etc. Some of his nitpicks are things a new player would never notice. As far as item level goes, he wasn't "behind" the curve by not using heirloom gear. Heirloom gear is always scaled to a rough equivalent of high end rare/epic gear for that level, or what would be considered to be "heroic" item level if we're dealing with what would have originally been a level that was the tail end of an expansion.

[@davidepannone6021]

@@Enigma1788 dude you're talking to that player. I am a complete noob that tried wow for 3 weeks before uninstalling it due to reasons i stated above 3 months ago 😂 Everyone sped run dungeons and if you'd fall behind they'd kick you/leave themselves or at the very min berate you, nobody is around leveling aside a few alts here and there that do not respond when you try to communicate or quest together because they know the most efficient paths, and the """"leveling"""" guilds are a joke for the same reasons i said in my op. Wow is a completely dead game for newcomers. The only chance you have to stick around is 1) you're a masochists 2) have an actual group of friends (I'd say min 3 to run the most basic dungeons with). There is no chance someone that haven't either of these two things is gonna pay a monthly sub. I'm sure there are the exceptions ofc, but as the word says itself, they're exceptions. The rule is most new players leave after 1/2 months at most. The only reason wow is still running today is thanks to bots selling either golds or boosts to veteran's alts that CBA to go through the game again. Face it. Blizzard only care for subs, and each bot/booster is a paid sub. They could give two shits about bringing new players in as long as they can milk veterans using the same principle of the abused wife syndrome most of you have. Wow will never improve for new players because they simply do not care about them. It's that simple. And mind you, i don't hate wow nor i think it's a bad game, so please do not see me as a hater. The community is bad, and in a MMORPG that wants to stay relevant and grow, the community is everything. Sadly, a good portion of it (I'd say about 80% and that's being conservative), only gatekeep the game and actually shun and ridicule new people for not being "up to their standards". Which is weird as fuck if you ask me. If i love playing a game i want as many people to enjoy it, especially when it comes to MMORPG. There is a reason why wow has been on a downward slope since legion (and most likely even before, probably after MOP). Because it lost veterans and newcomers did not stay. So right now, this is the wow cycle: new expansion gets released, there's some hype, but that completely goes to shit as soon as the main content is done. Returning veterans (which are usually the non toxic players or at least the most patient/understanding) go somewhere else again because they went past the beat down wife syndrome, while new players leave because either the hype is done or they get berated by the most toxic part of the wow players that can't quit the game because they're in the beat down wife syndrome but then complain when the game is dead. And thus the cycle continues. Sounds accurate enough?

[@museluvr]

As I age, I actually feel noob in some ways, so this isn't completely true. Memory goes, doing things I've done a hundred times before will become like a 'new player' xp.

[@chuggajr]

I unironically think the Death Knight or Demon Hunter is the best start, since you have to do the DK/DH starting zone. These zones were designed to make you learn the class and engage in their lore. But I’m pretty sure the new players can’t even pick them first.

[@shadowlycan3970]

Your right on DK to my knowledge, you have to have a 60 toon, I've dropped the game ages ago and I'm sure the classes play completely different now.

[@Mephiston]

@@shadowlycan3970 Level 55, but yeah.

[@TotallyNotRaven342]

I definitely agree. When I was a kid my dad let me play on his account and the first class I picked was DK and I learned the game relatively fast. I know it probably depends on person to person but DK in Wrath was simple to learn but had a bit of complexity. Even now the starting zone has aged well

[@MrDoenyon]

Yeah they both need to be unlocked.

[@XOmniverse]

I just did Demon Hunter and I agree. My experience was very different from this video. I never found anything particularly difficult, and even as vengeance spec, I was killing things fairly quickly.

[@dustyt6226]

I think the biggest issue is forcing new players into BfA content. The zones and dungeons can be incredibly frustrating, even for a veteran player. My girlfriend recently started playing and if I wasn't holding her hand through every step of the way she would have given up within the first hour for sure.

[@ginjaninja6963]

Going thru that exact problem right now with mine lol. She FOR SURE would have given up

[@greyknight5823]

Dungeons & raids might be tolerable if we could play them with normal people, but the other members of the group are guaranteed to be turbogamers who treat the dungeon/raid as a timed race. Last time I introduced someone to the game, I suggested holding off on the dungeoneering, but they went off and picked up a group anyway. It went about as well as could be expected, i.e. confusing and demoralising.

[@rawrbrz]

same thing with mine but now she loves the game at least

[@yangpaan453]

I tried leveling in bfa dungeons and whatever gear they give you if you boost simply does not work. I ran out of mana trying to heal 1 person. My heals were doing absolutely nothing, and I've played healer for years in previous expansions. I have no clue why the gear they give you simply doesnt have the stat output to heal a leveling dungeon. It's ridiculous

[@barrontrump3943]

​@@ginjaninja6963does your gfs other boyfriend play too?

[@shannonmcstormy5021]

"I will never have as much fun in a game ever, like I did those few years with WOW when it was still young." - Ninnjette I feel the same way. My partner introduced me to MMORPGS. I had never really played video games. She introduced me to Ultima Online, which she was still playing. That meant that she played Everquest while I was still playing Ultima Online. Eventually, I came over to EQ, after they had the bugs worked out. We spent years exploring and leveling up. We tried EQ2 for a while, but despite high end PC's, we never had enough power to play the game on max detail. Then came WoW, which we played for quite a few years. These were all magical times, things we did together. It was amazing.

[@skeletonsystem]

Id love to see this type of video of having a collection of new players playing with someone like yourself going back. But not hold their hands, as they work it out between themselves but discussing what they're loving or hating between each other and with you. Because you already have so much knowledge on it, to truly see their take on it and bring it to you as a seasoned vet would be so great.

[@simplysmiley4670]

Honestly would be a great experiment to see just how bad it is. Bonus points if the new players chosen for this were to never had experience with any MMO beforehand.

[@whispersinthedark88]

This shit would be confusing to me and I played wow when it first came out...lol

[@Conandus]

WoW is definitely harsh on new players. For example, the game never mentions keybinds, or unlocking new action bars. I have seen new players that think they have to actually pick and choose which abilities to fit inside their action bar, cause they don't know about the existence of toggling on more in the settings. It would also be nice if Blizz just added useful keybinds like Q, E and F to new player's action bars, since most new players that don't use any guides just click their abilities, which not only makes them worse, but makes the game less fluid and enjoyable. Also, a lot of settings are downright bad, like music not being looped by default, or the camera adjusting when moving your character.

[@Salmon_Toastie]

My main issue is lack of clarity. Without installing some quest add ons and a bunch of other stuff you end up just running all over the place with no real goal in mind. Like playing a worgen is probably one of the worst decisions because you get thrown in darnassus without anyway explanation on how to get to stormwind. Eventually I found the portal but the game says theirs suppose to be a boat!

[@ebonyw3839]

New player here. I’ve been playing for about 2.5 months and this my first time hearing that I could unlock more action bars. 😮

[@Waybackwhennn]

@@ebonyw3839 hahahahahaha

[@Shiirow]

yes wow is terrible at telling players anything, even games like XIV that are bad at timing when they tell you things... sometimes telling how to do X _after_ youve already figured out how to do X. warcraft doesnt really tell you shit period. heaven forbid you ask players, and getting "google it" or "wowhead", if they dont troll you or just spew hateful remarks about you.

[@nolabets3130]

Big true, also imagine not telling them about weakauras or DBM

[@hmm_norah]

I kinda wish that you would've shared a real-time comparison of killing mobs instead of telling us how long it took. Make us really feel the tedium along with you! B-roll of close calls at the later levels could've been a good compromise too. Anyhow, this was really interesting as I haven't played current WoW since like Cataclysm or Pandaria and this showed up on my KZbin suggestions. The gold spam showing up in the cutscene for the tutorial absolutely killed me! Thanks for including that lmao

[@TruthbtoldMD]

I was put off by the time you get to the dungeons where people are running in so fast just to boost their buddy.. I just wanted to know the story as a whole and kinda wondering how the dungeon works. It felt like you're missing out on something but in the end it felt like a grind.

[@LadyDoomsinger]

Same here. This was a problem all the way back at Wrath of the Lich King, and has only gotten worse since. It's why I eventually gave up the game. I felt like I was constantly playing catchup to other players, and missing all of the story.

[@jsrodman]

That problem existed in later vanilla. People expected sn endgame friend to triviialize and speedrun levelling dungeons, even if they themselves were new to the game. Tge addition of dungeon finder definitely changed the path of least resistance, but not the rushing. I dont see how this is a solvable problem in a multiplayer game that is built around repeating content. It quickly normalizes timento completion as more valuable than appreciating the experience.

[@psivampire13]

First dungeon I ever did in WOW, I had that problem. I got left behind and died. Could not get through the mobs that the party ran past. They told me to just sit at the start. It was a waste of time. No items, no knowledge of anything.

[@thodorosxanthopoulos]

This is an easy fix, you have a special checkbox, match like the leader/guide checkbox in the rdf where if you check it you group with other new people to do the dungeon so you can take it at your own time.

[@LevattWolfheart]

Not much better as a tank at high level. Dps always pulling because they think you are too slow, and complaining and insulting if you aren't speeding through or if they or you make a mistake they are so toxic. I just wanted to check out a new dungeon, I'm a prog raider MT, but I still want to chill and just enjoy a dungeon here and there

[@SenpaiTheExplorer]

I got into the game five years ago and still play pretty much everyday. But it damn near took me six months to a year to have a basic understanding of most of the game. I had my hand held by a friend for a few weeks starting out but after that i was on my own. And i got kicked from ALOT of dungeons. And i mean ALOT. Im still learning stuff all the time about the game. I kinda miss being brand new. I enjoyed feeling lost inside a world that i knew nothing about. It is still my most memorable experiences gaming was when i was new to wow.

[@nighthowlsmusic2666]

same

[@86Corvus]

Its a very easy game. But you should have had alhalf a year to level and learn the skills to later understand a basic rotation or tactics in a group.

[@MrSpikebomb5]

As someone that only recently played through the majority of WoW, it would help tremendously by having a "curated main story" like system similar to ff14. Imagine having an easy system to go through the entire story from warcraft on up. The sense of story,power, and faction progression would actually allow new players to appreciate the world. Along with actually having an all dungeon queue with lvl sync would get ppl to play old content. The game is too focused on experienced players+endgame content rush

[@Rizzerio1]

The new players I did see that made it to max level had some common issues. In pvp, players don't want to wait 10+ minutes for dps queues, or they feel completely hopeless with the class they chose to level first. Imagine a new player trying to play any warlock spec at the start of the first season and how miserable that probably was. They go to reddit threads quite often asking what they can do to improve or circumvent queue times to only be told things like "just go level a healer", or "just play for fun, who cares if your getting shit stomped by melee for months on end". I'm sorry but if I was new and I got a plethora of responses like that, telling me that I made the wrong choice and my only salvation is to relevel a new character, I would quit on the spot. In PvE, I would see complaints about "dead guilds" "can't find a guild that raids" "my guild won't let me raid with them", or "I keep getting declined in group finder" "I apply to every group and nobody accepts me" "people kick me for not knowing the fights" "I got kicked for not having addons" "how important is ilvl and tier sets". All this really tells me is that there are not enough new players flowing in to counter balance the 10+ year vets who gate keep them from all activities. There is just so little opportunity for them to find other players who are also in their shoes to give each other a chance to experience the game and learn, rather than this nonsense of having to research every single encounter, research all the spells, research all the mechanics, research addons, research how not to be a noob so that you can participate in the game. WoW is no different than a entry level job that requires 10+ years of experience. Your just never given a chance even though you can easily train someone for that position, but the issue is that why go through the burden of that if you have 100 other applicants who've done that work for 10+ years. The game is just too convoluted and old to get a healthy amount of new players to create any type of new player communities that will keep them around long enough. There is just too much down time and social frustration in WoW's systems that if lucky can retain maybe 5% of newcomers to Dragonflight. I've been around since late Vanilla back in 07, and even I quit from time to time for these very same things. WoW is not a game, it's a job to put on your resume, so that you can apply to other job like tasks in the game and get hired by other players only looking for people with 10+ yrs experience. Young kids aren't interested in WoW. They want to play the new cool thing all their friends are playing, and it sure as hell ain't wow. WoW left that spotlight many many years ago. In my opinion, mmorpg's are an aging and dying genre.

[@a1pha_star]

Holy fuck. This game is a mess. 💀

[@barrontrump3943]

WoW and gaming in general got hijacked and replaced by social media

[@XyphonXero]

This is exactly why I have come to the firm conclusion that is it time for WoW to end. I think they just need to Stop at this point. No more new expansions, no more added content patches. End it and start developing a brand new WoW. A place where everything is NEW to everyone. No one would have that 'veteran' status. I even thought it would be good for them to maybe build a 'world' with that survival game they were talking about making and use it to bridge into the new WoW or WoW 2 just like they did with the Warcraft RTS series.

[@Rizzerio1]

@@XyphonXero I don't think they could make a WoW 2 that would be innovative enough to recreate an entire new experience in mmorpg's. We've done and seen it all. I don't think there is much discovery left to be had. I don't want a new mmo. I want a whole new experience, a whole new set of system and playstyle to learn from the ground up. Something we can all start new in.

[@Treshar]

One thing i found annoying as a returning player starting from scratch, when i hit 60 i was really getting into the area i was leveling in and the game just yanks me straight out and ships me off to Dragonflight. That experience felt really jarring. PS: enjoyed the vid, keep up the great work!

[@spaceowl9246]

I played WoW for 18 years. Started back in 2005 as a 10 year old kid. I grew up with this game and seeing it turn into this weird husk of its former self really crushed me. Eversince WoD I just level to max level and hope for the best, just to realize that the new xpack can't hold me longer than 2-3 weeks. When Classic came out, I was really excited and I still play it to this day. Retail just isn't for me and DF was the last expansion I've bought. I'll stick to Vanilla Classic. Right now I'm on Classic Era. :)

[@Lilybun]

I can understand a lot of these issues stemming from a game thats been out for like 20 years but shamelessly tricking new people into joining empty servers they have to pay to leave? That's so insanely cynical and cruel.

[@Ninnjette-]

I started playing WOW, six months before Burning Crusade came out. I didn’t know I needed to upgrade my armor, I was leveling a character on the wrong server from my friends I didn’t know. At level 50 I still had level 20 items. That was the beauty of it, not knowing what I was doing. By the time Cataclysm came around, exploring, and the excitement of learning new things started to fade. I will never have as much fun in a game ever, like I did those few years with WOW when it was still young.

[@coryvisscher8299]

Same here and I had made the lvl 19 twins after a few got 100k kills on my 19 Tauren hunter and they got rid of them 😢

[@Mephiston]

Thats true of every mmo though. It's also a big proponent in why people stick around mmos long after they've stopped enjoying it, and why stuff like classic servers are popular. People want to take what they know now and apply it to their original experience, but they also want to live the nostalgic glory days of feeling your way around a new world.

[@RafaelGonzalez88888]

[@sulfuras1985]

Tbc had just released when i started playing and i didnt know you could respec talent points in a capitol city. I was level 30 on my warrior and THATS when i learned the fury tree and prot trees even existed AND that i would also not be able to unlock all talents. I had to picka tree to focus on . So i made a brand new character to do my talents "right" with and deleted my first one. Hahaha

[@museluvr]

Amen! My son one day 'checked in on me' after he got me playing. Didn't know the stuff dropping you equipped... even after that, a lot of stuff was hard to grasp as never gamed a game before (online). So, it took years from those who could learn in an hour. Fun times.. now with everything handed to us, its fun to fill in time.. but that's it. Thanks Blizz for murdering your own game.

[@moon_bandage]

While exiles reach is generally a good new player experience (and you will be getting some very clear tutorials on where you can find stuff like your spellbook etc) after that it really does go downhill bad. You are indeed thrown into BFA which is confusing. I think they should retexture a lot of the old zones, and put people on a Loremaster track. They go through each expansion, but get put on a fast track that outlines the main story progression, and get put into fake raids (with some bosses cut out). Yes like FF14s MSQ pretty much. Maybe they should cut out some less important expansions and all, just give new people a broad idea of the WoW lore and an interesting, guided track through the world. It would probably make sense to cut out some expansions like WoD and SL, these were sort of lore disasters. Not many people can tell you why WoD existed in the first place

[@Neothunder240]

To be honest, if they revamp the Cataclysm zones and remove the Cataclysm plotline from them so they are like the Vanilla zones a new player doesn't need to play any other expansion. They could skip right to Dragonflight which is quicker than playing through 8 expansions without having a disconnected and confusing narrative that goes back and forth in time.

[@vandakaii2893]

WoD existed cause, Gul Dan wanted to give everyone the finger! Even funnier is we the hero save him and let him go at the start.. Could of put an arrow through his head right at the beginning.. I do think the zone design and the music was very good tho despite that xpac being generally bad.

[@moon_bandage]

@@vandakaii2893 WoD existed because a bronze dragon Kairozdormu opened a time loop together with Garrosh, roughly, it's a weird ass story only covered in some book x_x. But regardless I wholly agree WoD had some amazing zones, music and cosmetics, it could've been so good but they really feel short D:

[@hiuto2]

leveling thru bfa was enjoyable, many of the quests had narration. Shadowlands is the worst experience I ever had. Head to dragonflight at 58th and grind a couple levels and you will enjoy the leveling experience much more.

[@330DKNY]

This would cost money to implement and bliz is not going to do that

[@ChatBot1337]

I played the free trial recently after quitting in late wrath, and I can't disagree with much. The 1-20 experience is so mind numbing that its difficult to believe anyone could find it fun. I get feeling powerful and all, but dotting up half a dozen mobs at a time is something I did at 80, not 5. Hearing things get more difficult made me think the exact same as you did, lured in with candy then relying on sunk costs. I require the exact opposite. The more I'm called champion, the stronger I expect to become, not weaker. At lvl 10, mounting up, running straight to the fart cloud on the map, kill stuff, and run back, is not fun, immersive, or memorable. There is no strategery, no thinking, it may as well be a click-next-button-with-red-dot mobile game. Thats fine for a free game if thats your thing, but paying for a game, add a sub, add a cash shop, and realize you can get the same experience with a free waifu game on your phone... it's no wonder wow is a shell of what it once was.

[@wusscake]

Big true. At least the waifu game can be played for free and has half-naked girls with giant boobs.

[@toastyknuckles892]

this wasn't how it always was, but i agree. over time blizz changed from tbc dungeons having to cc mobs so u don't die to the mythic+ style of play where ppl don't like explaining things they think u should already kno n they want 2 go fast n not wait 4 ppl that don't kno wut they're doing. minmax efficiency is the name of the game n the plqyers have it so imgrained in their way of thinking they make u out to b the problem if u don't "get gud". it makes the communitt sour n distant compared to wut it used to b when it would take u so long to get a 5man that u u were going to b nice n make convo becuz it made ur life easier that way. even wit classic it wasn't the same since x realms meant zero accountability for ppl out 4 trouble, which was not the original experience. the community went from fun to more of an actual chore than ppl used to mock it 4 in tbc aand wotlk.

[@zoogarium]

That's a good review. I remember starting on a new realm and just not having all the heirlooms - there are so many gear slots to deal with to keep your item level in check its basically impossible to keep up. If you started on a populated realm you'd of gotten a different guild experience: near constant invites to join a guild. To a new player I bet that would be off putting to say the least.

[@Fraggr92]

Used to play on a new character back in the day. Can confirm that the constant guild invitations out of the blue was a massive turn-off.

[@DesolateSolace]

​@Fraggr92 you can turn those off tbh. And honestly thats not a blizzard thing that you're getting tons of guild invites. Its a playerbase thing. But thats just been a thing since the start.

[@melanie654]

I agree with many points, but there is something to be said about struggling a bit in an MMO and not having everything served up on a step-by-step platter. I look back on how devastatingly bad I was when I started, and I honestly miss that feeling of new exploration, challenge, and excitement that everything in the game held. I started during BC as a Night Elf Hunter. It was only at level 30 I discovered my spell book, so any abilities outside of the first few on my bar (number one of course being auto-attack) were a total mystery. I had a vague idea of how hunters should work, but ammo was expensive so instead I used a staff to melee hit things down with auto-attack. Most of the time my spider pet was usually dead or forgotten about because it died so often. My hitting-it-big moment was when I discovered the auction house around level 20 and dedicated myself to farming spider silk (one clubbed-to-death spider at a time) to sell for 1 silver each. I was saving up to buy a cool looking set of Common gear from the vendor. Eventually ended up wandering into Tanaris somehow after a hellish death run through Shimmering Flats with a completely full quest log of unfinished quests from random zones along the way.. got trapped there and was being spam killed by everything that moved. So it was a slow death march to the shore where I swam from Tanaris along the whole Eastern and then Northern coast of Kalimdor until I got back to Darkshore. It was during my marathon swim when I was looking at buttons that I discovered my talent tree and spell book and so much more... I felt my hunter was too "tainted" by that point, so I rolled an Orc Warrior and never looked back. I was so awful on that hunter, but I sure do miss how exciting everything was and the perfect moment when everything just came together for me on my Warrior and I completely fell in love with the class was so darn fulfilling. Wouldn't have traded it for all the how-to's in the world.

[@itzaleaf405]

I do have to agree with the difficulty (I actually enjoy classic for the fact you have to be careful, and dying to "trash" mobs is actually possible if your not careful at even your level!), But that's not what live feels like, I remember the one time I did ~50-60 in the newest expansion (dragonflight)... it felt like a JOB, actually, it was even more boring than all my previous jobs fucking combined! It was Awful, and I didn't want to play more after that... I don't think anyone, ESPECIALLY new players, should have to go through that just to enjoy the game, cursed run of learning or not, nobody should have to do the monotony that's leveling through all the forgotten old content. (Example, the crafted leather chest is literally worse than the one you fucking SPAWN with for god's sake after the squish for dragonflight...)

[@liv328]

I played WoW for years. In 2015 I started playing FFXIV and by 2018 I was done with WoW. It can not compare. The job system on FFXIV is the best of any MMO I have played, you only need 1 toon for ALL the jobs. I hated on WoW that I had to have 20 different toons to level in order to play all the jobs. However, every once in awhile I get the urge to go back to Wow, so I just come to youtube and watch a video like yours, Hat the Bear, and I remember why I left to begin with.

[@Fraggr92]

Pservers. For when you get that old wow itch. Never go past the WotLK expansion and pick a good blizz-like server and you'll be 10x better off than playing on Blizzard servers. Modern WoW is garbage, and has been for years. It amazes me that people still play it.

[@jimmorrison4ever529]

I've played WoW since its original release in 2004. Yes, I am old. I began playing less and less since Battle for Azeroth. This latest expansion is very boring and I stopped playing it again. They improved the loot system, though - it's a little better than what it was.

[@damg91195]

I started playing 2 weeks before the release of DF. I tried different races and classes but I ended up settling for the Dracthyr since it was a new race for this expansion. Starting in the Forbidden Reach was simple IMO. They introduce you to your abilities and to what’s going on, then they explain the 2 specs and send you off to your corresponding faction until we can launch the expedition to take the Dragon Isles. I was kinda confused lore-wise because as soon as I got to Ogrimar some how I got the cinematic for SL and right after BFA, I thought that the dark looking lady with the bow (Sylvannas) was going to help us defeat Raszageth and that’s why she cracked the sky. I’m ashamed to say that after almost 20 hours of playing SL I realized it was a completely different exp that had nothing to do with DF :’), that’s when I decided to catch up with the lore and it’s been mind blowing and heart breaking so far. My experience has been 99% positive, the 1% negative comes from people expecting be to be an expert and kick me out if I’m not.

[@edde2429]

How dare someone be new at the game

[@theoneandonlyZef]

absolutely unforgivable

[@billvolk4236]

I played vanilla way back in the day and briefly got back in circa BfA to see what I'd missed. It was very weird. Repeatedly passing through obvious abandoned former postgame content was the weirdest part. I'd repeatedly get the first half of an expansion's story and never get the second half because it was in former postgame content and I had to keep moving forward to the next story I'd never finish. In the process of getting to the level cap I had exactly one conversation with another player. I felt like Josh Strife-Hayes playing one of those abandonware MMOs. They really do not put their best foot forward.

[@Mouse_007]

"keep moving forward to the next story I'd never finish" You brilliantly put into plain english what I was struggling to explain.

[@yodaman6616]

I feel like this is a topic that should be maintained. Regularly i hear about people " i just came back after XX years" improving new player/returning player experience is important. Good work laying out the assumptions prior to the video! I would liek to see the TTK comparisons visually from 1-10 - 40-59. would be cool side by side.

[@Multifire]

I have no idea why blizzard isnt making all of their old content fully playable. AI Campanions for old raids, and not kicking people out of chromie time, let the players play their way. It is such a smart idea that I have no idea why they arent doing it. With their backlog of content, no one could even touch them if they made it all playable and it would absolutely crush competition.

[@necro_nancy]

As someone who's just come back for the first time since Wrath, starting with a fresh account, this video perfectly sums up what it's like to be a new player. Especially the tedium of killing mobs after level 40 or so; they're not challenging, they just take forever to dps down, making so many quests feel like drawn out-chores.

[@zizouwowist1641]

not challenging but take forever to dps down. now idea what do u want them to do but yeah i m pretty sure u don't know ether.

[@Ferreneh]

Good point bc as a veteran player who uses all the heirlooms available to me, I can imagine how tedious that must be without them. Even with heirlooms, the leveling feels like a chore. Spamming dungeons and using questing addons like Immersion and Storyline make the leveling somewhat versatile and engaging, but obviously new players wouldn't know.

[@Frawt]

@@Ferreneh What actual point are you two trying to make? Quest mobs should all be one-shot and the already really quick levelling should be made even quicker, so you can level up to max with a couple of quests? You get people bitching about how a long and tedious levelling process is a big part of the appeal of vanilla WoW, and then other people who are like "durr I'm a veteran player but even with heirlooms it's a chore". Blizzard does a lot of shit wrong and/or badly, but these kinds of complaints are just pointless.

[@Sanquinity]

@@Frawt At least in Vanilla you could dps enemies down at an okay pace, even if you didn't have full high-end gear for your level. Sure you likely had to eat/drink in between, but waiting for hp/mana to replenish still isn't as tedious as taking ages to just kill a single enemy. After wrath they went the opposite direction, where you could dot up a dozen enemies at once and wipe them all out. And now they've decided to make it even worse than how it was in Vanilla. So yea, of course people are complaining about it.

[@whuzzzup]

Why would you want to start on a fresh account if I may ask?

[@alexl8864]

Really sums up my experience with modern WoW. I joined to play with friends, spent at least a full week to learn my brand new, auto-max level character that I got with the expansion, and decided to level a new character from 1. The experience leveling was so dull I ended up straight up deleting my first leveling character...then my second...then my third...and then just gave up and started playing my auto-max level, auto-close-to-max-level, my Death Knight, and my Demon Hunter. Not to mention my friends didn't want to start over leveling just to level with me, and didn't want to wait for me to level a new character either. Getting in dungeons took so long, and trying to experience any old raids was hit or miss on any given week. I tried to find people to do old raids every day just so I could experience them and to get cool transmogs, but more often than not I would go a full week looking for people day in, day out and not get a single person.

[@Fabriciod_Crv]

with the exception of more recent expansions, raids from Classic - Legion are very easily soloable, which is why not many people makes groups for them.

[@yycforlife5048]

You can solo ever raid almost for mogs

[@alexl8864]

I see your responses of being able to solo all the raids, but I was trying to do BFA raids for the first time at the start of Shadowlands, and it was not solo-able. Even when we got a group together for Battle of Dazar'alor everyone bailed out at Opulence. I went into a lot of these raids and attempted to solo them myself. Even some bosses in Legion had bosses that required at least a few people working together to complete or specific classes to complete, like Eonar and Kil'jaeden. So how do I get non-demon hunter gear while soloing if you can only solo with a demon hunter?

[@alexl8864]

@@Fabriciod_Crv Those exceptions are exactly the raids I was trying to do. I wanted to try them once before doing the new content. But the player-made time limit on being able to do content is the problem I am facing.

[@Nightstalker314]

The other problem with gearing is: the faster the leveling process is (which it is by now) the quicker you jump levels and by now also the further stretched ilvls. Therefore - given RNG loot - the ilvl gaps on certain slots can grow a lot.

[@morcinnafirecaster683]

That is basically the issue. They've continually streamlined and lessened the EXP requirements for leveling every expansion without going back and adding more gear rewards. The game could benefit greatly by adding gear rewards to more of the existing quests.

[@zenspeed404]

It says a lot about Blizzard's mindset that leveling has to come fast because everything that came before the current expansion is functionally useless. In all honesty, Blizzard could literally de-power and start characters from the beginning like a Metroid game every time a new expansion comes out and it wouldn't make a lick of difference. The story beats don't mean anything (almost nothing carries over from one expansion to the next), and players go from the most powerful thing in the world to going backl to fetch-it quests to collect five bear asses: it doesn't matter if you had BIS from the last expansion or something that was passable at max level, you're once again starting from the beginning.

[@Nightstalker314]

@@zenspeed404 There has to be a power reset otherwise you would go into the next xpac, roll over every piece of content and the game is dead within weeks. Character progress is the core idea behind WoW. Storywise you can try out how much people would like to do 100h+ of questing before playing the current xpac. It won't end well for your refund payments.

[@appow5677]

I think it makes more sense to get noticed as the greatest commander and what not if your character did all the previous expansion's raids slaying the big villian and main questilnes but having a fresh character and being mr god almighty feels like you've just started in a mobile game imo

[@Fraggr92]

It's almost like Blizzard made WoW with a mobile game in mind, because mobile gamers are willing to pay exorbitant amounts of money in microtransactions which earns Blizzard a lot more money than traditional MMO players.

[@ArthurLocatelli]

Getting into most well stabilished mmos is usually very hard already, but I agree that if you can't scale enough tp progress through the main story things get really frustrating, dungeons and raids is where the real difficulty should be, the story should be interesting for the story and to immerse you, medium difficulty is fine for them

[@chrissnyder4439]

One thing to note, while you did express concerns of finding the spellbook and talents, because you're not truly a new player, you have the tutorials off. I just replayed and by level 2 it was telling me to open the spellbook to find Fire Blast and drag to the bar. In fact, it continued doing this for the next couple of levels (I stopped at 4), but the tutorials really do take away any of the guesswork and make it easy for a new player.

[@UltimateGamerCC]

that is true, but it definitely doesnt discredit the rest of the issues, so a minor error on his part, but still huge L on Blizzard in this case, this is what's REALLY killing the game right here, the really bad design of the NPE. i knew that it wasnt great by any means, but gawdamn are my eyes open now, Blizzard needs to fix this if they want to have any hope of saving WoW.

[@therabbits69]

@@UltimateGamerCC The NPE is actually extremely good. The issue isn't the NPE; it's the fucking moronic low IQ fucks coming from games like FF14 who enjoy running around as furries.

[@XyphonXero]

@@UltimateGamerCC I think they just need to Stop at this point. No more new expansions, no more added content patches. End it and start developing a brand new WoW. I even thought it would be good for them to maybe build a 'world' with that survival game they were talking about making and use it to bridge into the new WoW or WoW 2 just like they did with the Warcraft RTS series.

[@UltimateGamerCC]

@@XyphonXero that will never EVER happen, you're expecting them to burn money and make an all-new game on the assumption that it would be more successful than WoW at current. they would sooner just shut it all down, time to wake up and smell the coffee.

[@XyphonXero]

@@UltimateGamerCC Oh no, don't get me wrong. Do I think Blizzard is smart enough to actually save their franchise, of course not. I realized this after giving one final commit myself and breaking down to actually purchase DF. Ultimately, it could only hold my attention for a few months and just last week I was not only unsubscribed for about a month but I even broke down and decided to uninstall a game I have had continually on my machine for 8 years straight. The ONLY thing that can bring me back at this point is something entirely new. Azeroth is but only a memory now. Good luck to the rest out there that still manage to scrape together some hope for this franchise to survive but I clearly see the big giant writing painted all over every single wall.

[@Aurazan]

As someone who leveled up his characters rather recently (I started playing WoW in Shadowlands but I'm pushing 20+ keys right now) - feeling weak throughout leveling is a mage issue rather than anything. BM hunter was the first character I've ever made and I got bored pretty quickly with. It felt like the game played itself cause this spec is so easy to play. I made a demon hunter next and got bored with it too. My third character was a Fury Warrior and I loved it for a while. Got my first KSM and my first Curve as a Fury Warrior in Shadowlands in season 1. I stopped playing for season 2 cause it was just aaaaawful and I returned for season 4 and made a Warlock. Pushed all +20 keys and got all the Curves for Fated Raids. Leveling all of the above was like a sneeze. It was super easy, no challenge at all, haven't felt weak at any point. But when I decided to level up a mage for Dragonflight.... Holy fuck my experience was misserable. Leveling this spec was awful. Mage felt good for me at around +15 key or so. Below that it just feels awful.

[@dude555413]

Yeah, it is absolutely a mage issue. 60-70 on my mage was absolutely fucking dogshit no matter which spec I picked. I swear, if I pulled more than 2 mobs in the open world I was either dead, or I had to mage table which took fucking ages. I swear the class used to feel a lot better

[@ibMoose2u]

Sooooo complain it’s too easy then when confronted with a class that has to be careful, you complain again… lots of classes have that issue, it’s been like that since vanilla. See ya next expac lmao

[@Frawt]

@@ibMoose2u ikr lmao. "wah wah BM is so easy to play and things are too easy" "wah wah I swapped to mage and things are too hard" Some people just wanna find reasons to bitch.

[@jeshika22]

I agree with all of this so, so much. Even as a returning player, though, I would argue that leveling feels meaningless and the new talents are ridiculously difficult to comprehend (much less so for a new player) and even with heirlooms, a lot of your abilities feel “wet noodle-y”. Some classes and talents have fundamentally changed so much that their core abilities don’t even make sense for the role anymore as well but that’s a whole other argument and I’m sure a lot of people will disagree with me on that.

[@Narutofan825]

Liar

[@Zarundo]

I would argue that it is impossible to 'play as a new player,' just because you cannot ignore all your previous knowledge of the game. As my first experience with WoW is one of my best gaming memories, I wish I could erase all memory of WoW and start again. Just to feel the same joy of exploring a whole new world, again. Not knowing how the world, economics, and gearing worked and learning it along the way was what made the game so great for me. I started playing in fall 2006, and I still remember spending an hour or two swimming from Westfall to Wetlands just to see if it was possible.. Just to spend some more hours to walk back through way too high-level zones, dying a ton of times. I didn't have the flight points connection that far north, so I had no choice. Just the fact that I had to deal with the consequences of my actions was a learning point, experience, and an adventure. I can 'never have that again' because I now know that all MMOs, in the end, are a game of numbers - bigger is better.. 😢 I am still waiting for the next 'WoW'-experience. I almost got it through VR. I have a new hope that LLM/AI can contribute to a new era of games; time will tell. But sadly, now I just don't have the time to spend on gaming. So I guess it is a good thing I cannot erase the memory of my first character in WoW and just cherish it.

[@museluvr]

True. Get someone to actually play who' never done it before (which I'd never do, becuz I know the addiction of it).

[@YeIsCorrect]

just go play a custom private server. like ascension or turtle wow, you'll be amazed that feeling isnt gone, and you can have again even in wow.

[@warc8us]

This was years back, many expansions ago. But I remember trying to level a Healer on a new Realm for the first time after playing nothing but DPS for years. It may have been Mists of Pandaria era. I was running a bunch of Dungeons and having a good time, up until a certain level range. I can't remember which range, maybe something like 40 and up, maybe 50 and up. But at some point I just dropped off a cliff in my healing abilities, where I could no longer heal up a party and everyone started dying in dungeons I went too. Prior to that healing dungeons was very compelling and fun. Then just suddenly it seemed impossible. There was no ramp-up at all, just bing you're at the next level/dungeon bracket and now everyone is dying. It really put me off on Healing for a long time. I picked up WoW here and there since then over the years but haven't been able to stick with it since around Cataclysm. I think the leveling experience for new players has been off since Cataclysm.

[@Arrow333]

When I came back for Dragonflight, I had a bunch of alts that I wanted to finally get to the latest expansion as well. Due to them being pretty old it means they got hit both with the item and the level squish, and really... this did hurt. It is basically impossible to play a mid level character with the gear they had when I stopped playing them last time. In some cases the expected Itemlevel is about the double of what I got on that character. So... I basically stopped that project and just focused more on my main character again.

[@therabbits69]

1. go to the AH buy the gear that they need and that fixes the issue instantly 2. the gear ilvl for leveling is just a suggestion. I leveled all the way to 60 in grays and never died. just to do it.

[@dreamingflurry2729]

Indeed! Hell, I had a badly geared Paladin from BFA (I never truly ran mythic as I hate them - I want to raid after heroic, piss on mythic!) and even that was hard to play damned a tank being overwhelmed by 3 enemies without CDs just sucks! I am not complaining about the damage (if I wanted that I'd have switch to Retribution...not that I'd have had a weapon for that, as I usually tank when playing paladin!)...it was worse on a druid with T9 gear from WotLK, damned that sucked!

[@dreamingflurry2729]

@@therabbits69 With what money? I wasn't playing actively during Legion when most people got gold by the thousands easily, so yeah I am relatively poor!

[@therabbits69]

@@dreamingflurry2729 99.9999% of lvling gear costs like 5gold a pop. It shouod cost no more than 70gold to buy all gear you need.

[@Cavonny]

Fell down a rabbit hole and it brought me to this video. The video is a great honest opinion on wow. I felt exactly the same way when I went back on it. Enemies turn into damage sponges, and to me I felt the same way about feeling weaker and weaker when leveling higher and higher. I too hit the exit button on a game that had two more weeks left until the sub ran out, and never went back since.

[@jari2018]

yes it more enjoybe if you are weak from the start like in classic - the retail levelling is unenjoyble i raterh not level when the leveiling is about the mobs not be able to kill you or do onl 5% to you... its easy bs from blizzard

[@ZekeRaiden]

​@@jari2018 I think it would be more accurate to say that it is better if you *feel rewarded* for the change in your character over time. That is, you don't _have_ to start "weak." You can, but that's not the only or even necessarily best way to give that feeling. Instead, you can make it so early on, brute force works, because you're fresh-faced and don't know how to play. Then, as you grow, you learn tricks and unlock new abilities that must be pieced together like a puzzle. If enemy difficulty rises, but playing *skillfully* bridges that gap, you can build a situation where the player feels rewarded not for wearing better armor, but for making _wise choices_ in play. But after a certain point, diminishing returns kick in for player skill, and that's when you set the player's focus onto gearing up, setting the tone for the endgame. If done well, this hooks players with a teaser of what they can become, then gets them invested through the pleasure of (at least preliminarily) mastering a skill set, and then finally capitalizes on that investment to drive the player toward the challenging content that is the ongoing core experience after the growth arc. Starting "weak" can also be a way to encourage this investment, but it runs the risk of players feeling turned off to the game. Weakness is a tricky thing; some players view it as a motivator to "git gud," while others feel demotivated, metaphorically "trapped" in incapability. Having the "weakness" show up only _after_ experiencing strength gives the latter type of player a reason to think, "This isn't how things have to be. I can make it better. I can become powerful if I work for it." In general, I suspect that this effect will be stronger than the countervailing effect from the first type of player, those who think "this game is too easy, I want to play something challenging." Because many players expect that the real challenge doesn't begin until later in a game anyway.

[@zombiefreak142]

Good video Hat. I starting play WoW when Shadowlands released. It's been three years since I had the new player experience, but your video reminded me of some of it. Especially player damage while level been really low. The first character that I leveled was a Druid, as that was what my friend recommend because they can do all three roles and have a melee and ranged DPS spec. I ended up choosing the ranged spec(Balance), though at that point it only appealed to me because I could just stand still and cast. It took me a really long time to get used to controlling the camera and pressing the default keybindings all while moving, (side note: I think the default keybindings of 1-= are really bad and Blizzard should change them) so the ranged spec seemed like the best option because I could just kill stuff before it got to me. But, once I made it a little ways into BFA I couldn't kill stuff before It could get to me and I started dying, a lot. I wasn't playing Balance even remotely properly at this point, which was why I kept dying, but the whole game was pretty overwhelming, and at this point I didn't even know about the concept of a damage rotation. Anyway, I ended up switch to the tank spec to see if I could stay alive, which I could, so I ended up doing most of the leveling in that spec. Which I think took me about 50 hours. Looking back on this I'm not sure how I made it all the way to max level. I mustn't have had anything better to do at the end of 2020. Luckily I made my character on the server that my friend played on and was able to join the guild that he was in, they even let me start raiding with them shortly after I hit level 60, even though I still had no idea how to play Balance. I ended up getting AOTC with them in Castle Nathria.

[@LordNecron]

SL made me depressed in the first proper zone (Bastion). I usually made it halfway in until I wasn't just in a constant tired and unmotivated state, but outright started to get suicidal thoughts, in a 'put me out of this misery' way.

[@TheRozly]

Great video, I am really happy to see someone mentioning the starting experience of a new player. I played WoW for a few months when Shadowlands was released. But the experience is the same. Undergear and confusion made me quite Wow. What to do once I am max lvl? I remember staying there with no clue whatsoever of what I was supposed to do next and then I tried a few daily quests for some "anima" (I hope that's the right name) And this is it, nobody told me why I was farming it or if there was anything else. I did it for a few days and I quit So, both feeling weak and confused isn't a great combo

[@TotemoGaijin]

When I first started WoW it was right around the tail end of Vanilla leading up to TBC. There were lots of people going all around all over the place, and a pretty active community in all the chats. Then I fell off around the start of Cataclysm and came back for a bit around Warlords of Draenor and stayed a bit into Legion (cause there was druid lore stuff, lol), fell off and came back during Shadowlands. Every time I came back I noticed fewer and fewer people throughout the world (it was something I had started to notice with Shattrath, but became more and more exacerbated over time and with the introduction of group finder). The sense of community just kinda died in the game for me, so when I went to try out FF14, it kinda blew me away just how busy a lot of the cities were, how chatty and friendly people were, and how much they came up to do with that had nothing to do with the main story. There was even one guy who was just famous on the server because he was almost 24/7 afk dancing in front of one of the cities portals.

[@aitcheymoo]

As someone who has always been a casual player and actually mostly plays for the story, I am finding it harder and harder to engage with wow now. It claims to be more casual friendly but its systems are too entrenched and unreachable. Gearing feels super complicated and effectively becomes more about socialising with a forgiving guild who don't mind carrying you than just slowly working your way through the bosses

[@barrontrump3943]

Wahhhhh

[@khodges72]

​@@barrontrump3943 Smartest retail fan

[@Fabriciod_Crv]

as also a more casual player who does a bit of M+ on the side, idk what you mean, this expansion has been straight foward on the systems than it has been in every expansion since Legion, no borrowed power means you only have your gear and correct stats to worry about, aswell as how is your talent build, nothing that a quick wowhead search can't fix.

[@aitcheymoo]

@@Fabriciod_Crv in theory. But there are still complicated upgrade systems and ever increasing ilevels which mean my chances of ever getting out of single level mythic keys are slim to none. To me if feels like everyone rushes to the end of the game and grinds gear for months. I know they give you plenty of other things you could do, but socially it feels like if you're not doing that, you're doing it wrong.

[@Fabriciod_Crv]

@@aitcheymoo as far as world content is concerned, it's always very active, there's always people doing Dragonbane, Community feasts, world quests and the new forbidden reach zone, not to mention some of the world pvp quests which are alot of fun, right now my guild is largely inactive until 10.1 and most of my fun comes from playing with randos. Upgrade systems for the M+ gear isn't that complicated to get grasps with, you earn valor points, and you use those to upgrade the gear's ilvl and stats, higher upgrades require higher M+ rating.

[@ServeMySoul777]

Among many other things to push new players away, If they do dungeons they’re thrown into overtuned bfa dungeons that are imo way to difficult and complicated for their skill level. I experienced this when I invited a friend to play and we were thrown into the aforementioned dungeons and he had no idea what to do as far as mechanics. Anyway, that was my experience. Have a great day! Edit: I am enjoying and still playing Dragonflight, BUT my friend isn’t.

[@mikfhan]

Classic dungeons are much easier on new players, it would be nice if, after Exile's Reach, you just are sent to one of the vanilla zones that don't have much to do with Deathwing/Cataclysm and level up from there. A kind of Chromie Time Cataclysm without the endgame Deathwing dungeons. Then just head for dragon isles after that.

[@yummy8074]

That has been the criticism of reworked lvling since we got the info that new players will be forced to BfA. I dreaded doing Atal'Dazar or Waycrest Manor even with a little more experienced people back in BfA, so we all can imagine what chances do newbies have to clear at least one wing. It's also a reason people who lvl alts avoid doing BfA dungs, they all do Classic or Pandaria dungs, because Classic dungs are the most braindead ones and Pandaria dungs are the fastest. Also easy way to avoid beginners with their first alt.

[@a1pha_star]

@@yummy8074 Okay, everytime I see “dung” it makes me think of shit. 💩 lol

[@MyVanir]

Sounds like they designed dungeons with alts and people experienced with the game rather than new players in mind.

[@evanzuleta9534]

genuinely some of the most enjoyable WoW content i've seen in a while. please keep making vids.

[@kurdishdonkey]

Bro hasn't played legion

[@unknown_ross]

Someone tweet this video link to blizz

[@bubyCZ]

Tried WoW 12 times since Warlords of Dreanor... EVERY TIME I quit because there is ZERO moment-to-moment combat depth. You either IK or get IKed, nothing in between, you do not have to adapt to anything... Why should I care about anything, when I cant get to proprely get through the story chronologically? It is not World of Warcraft, more like World of the Current Expansion of the Warcraft... everything "not current Expan" is left to rot... If I know jack shit who is who, what is what and why should something matter, I am not gonna push through tedium for Legendary Whatever of Whoever from Wherever.... There is no depth to moment-to-moment gameplay, nor any proper lore to pull you in... After soo much years the retarded FOMO design of "Endgame is the content" totally kills the game for anyone new as the train is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay ahead on the other side of the world... Ok, want to do it manually? Going from location to location is literal timetravel, no cohesion, no organic story route to actually get through... Played a LOT of ThemePark MMOs, but WoW is just extremely outdated hamsterwheel, even compared to other ThemePark MMOs that actually cared for their older content.

[@kthy0056]

This was my experience exactly when I tried to play World of Warcraft .I gave it a try when Shadowlands was about to be released and Battle for Azeroth was made free, I was playing the alliance portion of the quests but I figured it was getting harder and harder - I also didn't do any dungeons until the game recommended me to do it in order to finish a storyline. I've eventually quit the game because I hit max level (it was 50 back then) and I didn't even finish the quests for Alliance zones yet, and even at max level it was harder than ever to kill some stupid mobs ...

[@LimitMaximum]

Best wow video of the year , hands down 👎

[@Nazzers]

It was one of the wow videos of all time 💩

[@boomboompow1249]

I actually found this interesting because dragonflight has kinda been the first expansion which I felt like leveling from beginning levels and was fun due to the new talent system making me feel like my characters were slowly getting stronger and that I can experience at least part of the stories I joined the game too late for joined if i remember (slightly before warlords) and the only one of my characters I felt so far that was a slog to level was my mage and I don’t have up to date heirlooms

[@Sanquinity]

I feel like that's one of the few positive changes they've made in DF. Actually bringing back talent trees instead of only giving you a choice of 3 options every 15 levels or whatever it was. Ever since they removed proper talent trees people haven't stopped complaining about it.

[@trxe420]

For me, the story fragmentation is the worst part. In other MMORPGs I play, and other games in general, The story is at least somewhat tied together. As a new player in those games it really helps get me excited and interested in the game. The only reason I even know what to do in wow is because I have played it so long, but if I was new and I was interested in say raiding, I wouldn't even know where to begin. I really think they need something like an MSQ in Chromie time that at least brings you through some semblance of a cohesive story, but they won't invest any time or money in it.

[@UltimateGamerCC]

yeah, they start out great with Exile's Reach, but the second that's over, it just all falls apart. the new player is now no longer a Recruit, they are now a Veteran Champion of their faction. it's scuffed AF right now and storywise i dont think a single thing can be done about it right now, but the scaling can be fixed, no it NEEDS to be fixed. once Dragonflight becomes the NPE it can help fix the story part, though they'll need to edit a few lines of reference to the player, not to call the new players "Champion" or "Hero", "Explorer" might be ok.

[@nanotech2080]

Not sure if anything has changed since this video came out, but as a new player who started like a couple of days ago and is lvl 50, leveling feels fine. Easy, smooth, and seamless. Doing quests for the most parts, jumping into some dungeons as I go.

[@slipkornfan]

Nice video ! I'll speak about my WoW experience as a newbie from 2023. It was hard, I'm used to FFXIV that has a lot of differences with how it manages to be story driven. So I begin, and the tutorial island is nice , makes me learn how to play the game, all good. Then I'm at the Battle For Azeroth section, because the game recommended to begin with that. And that was the hardest part for me, I don't know the lore, I don't know the characters, I don't know the world (the lore seems very good when I watched some youtube videos). But I continue, I do some important quests, some side quests , I lvl up my character, It's way harder than FFXIV but I love understanding how my class works , I have a good time. But then I have to make my first dungeon... And I didn't understand anything ! The mechanics were hard, we wiped a few times for a beginner dungeon, I don't know if I sucked (that was probably the case) and/or if the dungeons of Battle For Azeroth weren't reworked after making this expansion the beginning zone. I kept pushing on, but without friends to help me or give me advice I was lost. I'm kinda sad because the game seems nice, but in my case I didn't find it noob friendly. I'll try again sometimes nethertheless, I don't like when a game kick my butt and I don't understand why, guess I'll understand later ! :)

[@ChristieWryte]

They absolutely did NOT adjust the dungeons when dropping them from being for level 110-120 characters to being for 10-50s. Instead, they just jacked up the scaling of player power at low levels so the lower your level, the stronger you are compared to mobs, so hopefully parties can just brute force their way through the dungeons because they literally don't have the class skills (mainly interrupts and dispels) those dungeons' mechanics were designed around. Atal'dazar is probably the poster child for how broken this approach is. You can first queue into AD at level 15, at which point it is one of only two dungeons you can queue for. The central platform is full of pterranodon mobs that cast an AoE Fear that has to be interrupted, or it's practically guaranteed that someone is going to run into another pack and pull more. And in Shadowlands, the expansion where they first put this system in place, no class got their interrupt before theirs 20s. Some didn't get theirs until their 30s.

[@LlibertarianGalt]

The chosen one storeline method made no sense since they started pushing it and it's just gotten worse. Dunno why they move people away from EK/Kalim when it's literally going to introduce every repeating character around..

[@TheKingOfBears.]

Not being able to transfer your character from a New Players realm is not something I actually thought about being a problem but now that you mentioned it that's a pretty big issue. Also there is no doubt that getting gear from leveling is abysmal, no argument there.

[@Sanquinity]

They basically still have similar loot rarity as back in the early days. Where it was expected to run one dungeon 2~3 times and only gain like 1~2 levels. So yea, with that kind of progression you could generally get up to date gear while levelling. Plus it could easily take 30~45 min to complete one dungeon. Now though? I admit I haven't played since BFA, but my experience was "Okay let's do 1 new dungeon. Oh an NPC at the start gives me 4 quests for this dungeon. Aaannd at the end of the dungeon I'm now 3 levels higher. And we finished in 15 minutes..."

[@hardcorecynic961]

Sheesh, this really opened my eyes as to why it's so hard for them to get new players (and especially after reading the post by SolaisYosei below). This is something that Blizzard should REALLY be looking at, I am a long time player and am constantly blown away by the amount of "new" players, I say "new" because I don't really know if they are returning after a long time off or are really new (they are leveling and have very few of anything cosmetic so I would tend to believe they are new?). And if there really is a big "revolving door" of new players, then they should be catering to them a LOT more to make them stay. The logic is so stupid, always just more money more money no matter what, instead of like old times when they would hook you with the content and then you would be willing to spend money. Rethink this shit Blizzard, or I'm afraid the game will die further. Great job on the video man, Really opened my eyes and kind of gave me some answers too, thanks and good luck!

[@a1pha_star]

100%

[@Nempo13]

This is made painfully obvious how bad Blizzard is at this when you play a game like GW2 or FF14 and how they treat new players. FF14 especially just hooks a new player quick.

[@UltimateGamerCC]

yup, my eyes have been forced open, this is bad news and we NEED to get this to Blizzard.

[@Little_Beggar]

This has been my experience 100%. I tried to love the game, I really did, because I already spent a lot of time listening to lore stuff and I play hearthstone too. I played a bit like a decade+ ago, but couldn't afford to keep playing at the time. Now that I could it was a bad experience. I was sent to exiles reach which had pretty much 0 context for me being there as a "recruit". Only to meet big names shortly after to exchange 3 sentences and be sent to BFA. Again, no context to anything. Even reading the quest texts and all it was jarring. I didn't end up reaching max level either, because as you said I just didn't get the items to progress. I didn't skip quests, I even killed a few extra mobs every time just in case. After noticing how insanely long it took to kill random monsters for random, no context repetitive boar kill type quests I gave up. People keep saying that the "real game starts at max level", but honestly I'm too old for hardcore raiding and pvp. I wanted to experience the WORLD of warcraft. Which I was promised I could do now that something called "chromie time" allegedly enables you to play through older content. I don't know... I really tried to love it, but I'm not sure. I'll give it another shot maybe, I considered buying the dragonflight bundle with the boost too, but then I'd be thrown into high level with even less context to anything only to do the newest expansion and nothing else. For what it's worth, the skill thing seems to be fixed as the exile reach tutorial gave me a ton of notifications to open the skill menu, though I did miss the talent page for a while as you pointed out. I know I said "no context" a lot, but that's pretty much the most frustrating part to me. It's an MMORPG for gods sake, and even picking the highest pop realm (Silvermoon, allience) I only saw one or two people max for an MMO, and had no sense of RPG as I was dropped from one place to the next.

[@zka77]

Oh and you haven't been anywhere near of endgame where the development strategy has been "further increase encounter complexity for no particular reason and put WASD in your WASD so you can WASD while you WASD". High end PVE is basically unplayable and unenjoyable for normal people.

[@adrianlskaar7065]

Great video man! Feel like you are pointing out areas that I've also felt is lacking in WoW for new players. I've played WoW a lot, but recently started leveling some alts with my friend (who doesn't play WoW that much). It realized that there's a ton of knowledge you need to learn outside of the game in order to become a "good" player (Wowhead, Icy Veins and even CurseForge/addons). The scaling issue you are mentioning is very noticable if you have a damage meter addon installed (I would guess most new players doesn't know what that even is), where low level players would annihilate mobs in a dungeon and do 2-3x more damage than a higher/better geared player. I believe this is intended to make new players feel powerful from the start, to get them hooked into the game. "I'm destroying these enemies, I must be good at this game". But it's an illusion, the higher level you get the less powerful you become. I've spent hours reading up on different types of talent builds, rotations, enchants, niche situations for most classes. Blizzard boasted that the new talent trees would allow players to "play in the style you want", but that's simply not true. For most classes/specs there is one, maybe two different talent builds you should chose, and if you go in a different direction you won't perform as well. Theorycrafting and sims have taken a lot of fun out of the game in my opinion, but I realize that most casual players doesn't care about being top dps/healer/tank in a raid/mythic+ dungeon. In addition I also feel there is little to none acceptance if messing up or being a newbie in the game. I've recently learned that FFXIV has a "Sprout" icon above new players, essentially showing to other players that this is someone who is new to the game and that you should show some slack, even help them become better. In WoW I've felt players can be borderline toxic if you make a mistake. I've give an example: I've played tank classes in Vanilla, TBC and WOTLK, then switched to DPS in later expansions. I've stopped playing for months at a time, and not seen the inside of a certain dungeon for years. I decided to try to level up a warrior tank and try to tank some dungeons. For dungeons that I knew well from the early expansions everything went fine, but for newer dungeons (especially BFA or Shadowlands) I got lost a lot and didn't know the mechanics on certain bosses. Even in normal dungeons while leveling I got flamed more than once for either messing up a mechanic or going the wrong way (sub-optimal way). Players wanted to just rush through a dungeon to level their alts quicker, had no patience to teach me to be better. I even said before starting each dungeon that "I'm new at tanking and don't know this dungeon well, if you have any tips please let me know :)" I would usually get no response, until I messed something up....

[@alanogy]

That's all true. And I like the FFXIV community and the sprout icon. To be fair, people are nice because they would be banned for talking like WoW players, not because they're better human beings. But it is a much better dungeon experience. People just explain things. WoW and, I am thinking I saw this in GW2 in PvP, when things go well everyone is happy, but when they go badly, everyone blames everyone else instead of figuring out the problem.

[@becca5461]

Exactly this. From a brand new player, this game is just too much of a dinosaur for a new player. Each group I have been in has been difficult as they just completely rush to the targets. I've been so lost!

[@Easyflux]

What a good way to put it. Seeing this from a new players perspective, no wonder people are leaving/not staying. It's so easy to see it as an experienced player, we know the drill, we know the shortcuts and the meta. The new guys don't. And it's not about making the whole game ez-mode and handholding.. it's about being intuitive and easy to understand. Just the fact that the boost is available from the get-to is insane. You should have to have at least one character at 60 for it to be available imo. But.. that doesn't bring in the bacon does it.

[@itzaleaf405]

I remember that even as a baby, my dad started to play and enjoy WoW, hell I have some very faint memories of watching it myself (Well, I remember that I had them, by now they're LONG gone sadly...). I think the *first* expansion I played, was WoTLK (Which I only barely remember I think, due to mucking about with recording the expansion cinematic on my old DSI). I didn't really get into the game then though, I got into more around or after *Cataclysm*... or what I now days call "the start of 'new' WoW". Then I lost interest, and regained it for a while at BFA, it wasn't good to say the least. I looked at shadowlands, heard about it from my dad, and didn't touch it. Finally, I heard about Dragonflight, and got super excited (and also bummed as hell that I didn't get into the alpha, but my dad did who barely even played it lmao)! I think dragonflight was the first ever expansion I ever leveled a character for (without any boost). 10 to max (Allied race). The full leveling experience (Even with some heirlooms mind you), and everything the dude in the video said hit home and *hard*. The low levels your so INSANELY powerful! I remember the level scaling being so bad, as a level ~11-12 rogue I could take the aggro away on the first boss (BFA expansion I think) with my *AUTOATTACK ALONE*. The Tank mind you, was easily at least level 30+, that's how bad the scaling was he literally couldn't rein the boss to him if I so much as *breathed* on it. However, on the character I finished leveling (Hunter beastmaster), when I was around ~level 50-55, I felt so *incredibly* frail, enemies that were yellow name might as well have been *Orange* name... When I got forced to go to dragonflight (finally hit 60), I had a small dash of hope, which then got smashed across every shore in Azeroth. That weakness? It didn't go away, and my first character of the expansion (Fury warrior) I had enjoyed dragonflight a lot on... but he'd been level boosted to 60 right of the gate, and I'd even been there during the boat fiasco trying to get there now now now! When you get forced to dragonflight, if you don't have heirlooms your item level is so *royally screwed* it's insane! I think I was still wearing an item or two I SPAWNED WITH at level 10 (Vulpera which I'd unlocked in their expansion when it was live content) it was so bad... and frankly, I never played them through dragonflight and got super bummed out and didn't want to play anymore (especially with the expansion's time gating of things such as faction reputation, raids, and so on that I really wanted to do NOW not wait a fucking week THEN do it again!). Frankly the only versions I play are the classic ones (Vanilla, and WotLK), cause they're the only ones that still *feel* fun, feel like all the levels are cared for and treated equally. The leveling experience lets you learn, enjoy, and feel through the story, and take the game at your own pace. I now realize i've written a small essay, and apologize for it.

[@Cassapphic]

It'd be interesting to have a sequel to this for a new player's experience of max level, how you get treated by otgers and what you have to do, even when on a normal server.

[@elwiwi4638]

Joined it to play with friends blizzard said "no you cant play with friends" stopped playing it its that easy man

[@aakins1997]

Your voice is remarkably relaxing and almost put me to sleep. 10/10

[@andydataguy]

I appreciate you sharing the experience. Love that you packed so much into such a short time. Thank you 🙏🏾💜

[@theoneandonlyZef]

To be fair, heirlooms are made for an optimal leveling speed after you've already completed the leveling experience.

[@Liimbozo]

Then leveling shouldn't be balanced around them to the point that not using them makes it miserable

[@xikirito_6809]

@@Liimbozo leveling isn't balanced around them at all, the iron man challenge is easier then ever right now. The leveling experience is 10000000x better than it used to be a few years ago.

[@lucyl626]

I'm so glad you made this video. The new leveling needs some constructive criticism. It has good sides I love, the way I can choose which expension I wanna play in. But if you don't have heirloom or don't do dungeons constantly, you are undergeared and weak and can really struggle. And leveling is so fast. Also I wanna do Chromies timewalking at 70 too not just while leveling.

[@AceofHearth]

You can choose any levelling zones even as a new player, wtf are you talking about? Just talk to Chromie after you've talked to Anduin or Sylvanas about intro to BfA. Stop spreading misinformation.

[@alphabromega859]

No you cannot. So sick of you wow “vets” thinking you know everything when you’re straight up 100% ignorant. You have no idea what the game is for beginners. You are LOCKED IN to Exile’s Reach and then into BFA as a brand new player@@AceofHearth

[@garegos7184]

there is also the thing that you can solo old raids and get items better than what you have equipped like my warrior has full BFA gear and I got items from onyxias lair which had a higher item level and did better dmg like wtf its compeletly fucked i dont know whats going wrong or how they can even fuck up this badly

[@andrewsouthwick7745]

I remember in previous expacs having to decide between two pieces of gear; should I take the Imaginary Adjective Gloves, or the Fabricated Adjective Handwraps? Usually there were tradeoffs, but the point is I remember sometimes having multiple pieces of gear for the same slot at the same ilvl. I recently levelled a couple alts (one from level 1), and the biggest problem I had was gear. I'd find a new piece for a given slot like once every 15 levels. I felt horribly weak, frequently not being able to handle adds without dying. XP gain might be ten times what it used to be, but gear is still set at 2004 levels, and this video reminded me of the Bad Old Days when 80% of the gear you find isn't even for your class, much less your spec. Yet I expect fixing this issue would mean reitemizing 20,000 quests, and a small start-up company like Blizzard doesn't have the money to do that.

[@sikhandtakerakhuvar3372]

Once the percent boost per expansion's gear is figured out, would just be a backup of the test server then a script to iterate over the database overnight, more or less.

[@alricdark]

Interesting video. I started in WoW about 8 or 9 months before Burning Crusade came out and stayed with it until Cataclysm, which was my cue to exit as friends I'd made in the game also drifted away. Tbh, I don't really remember there being much in the way of a story from level 1 - 60 in the original game, perhaps there was one but if there was, it passed me by. Not much in the way of help either, other than asking other players from time to time or reading posts on the forums. The game itself was quite happy to let you make plenty of mistakes with long lasting consequences. I guess what I'm saying is there was a lot about the original game which was challenging to new and not so new players, however I genuinely don't believe I've had more enjoyment from a game before or since.

[@WybremGaming]

That fact that you're stronger at lvl 1 than lvl 55 says all you need to know about retail wow, absolute pile of shite.

[@michaelmoore2679]

You know being the Chosen One in an mmo isn’t that bad when the game goes out of its way to make you feel like a unique individual in the world.

[@frtzkng]

It's weird, however, when the NPCs see you as the Chosen One because of your past actions and you created your toon like 20 minutes ago.

[@whuzzzup]

I disagree. FFXIV does that, and I feel weird because I know there are a million other chosen ones. And the worst thing with FFXIV is, that you are basically the chosen one in every little thing you do. Craft a chicken soup? Well that was the most amazing chicken soup the NPC has ever eaten and you are some godlike chef.

[@neattricks7678]

@@whuzzzup its pandering to a vocal minority of people who can't have fun unless there are cutscenes revolving around them. the other side - sane people who could care less and don't mind patiently watching the story unfold simply by taking the game for what it is, without cutscenes and voice acting to guide them through every little thing - never had time to speak up before the rug was pulled out from under us.

[@Frankenstec]

Dude, Im not exactly a "New player". But I swapped to ff14 for a while and then back to wow and tried leveling an alt. And I thought it was just me being bad at the game. Thank you for this.

[@DioBrando-ln1to]

The biggest thing that turns me away from retail is the power scaling, not even including how insane the main story is now. In terms of gameplay, you should NEVER earn loot, XP and other rewards and then feel weaker. All of the level mixing and squishing can exasperate class and gear imbalance and is confusing for new players. Having defined areas where everything here is level 50-59, over there is 60-65 and where you came from has it's own appropriate level range. Something satisfying about going back and kicking ass somewhere that not long ago you were struggling. The power increase is tangible and it really hammers home the feeling of progress and achievement, something WoW has decided to replace with facebook games and mindless chores.

[@tylerporciello1222]

You were missing Comet Storm, maybe that could have given you some more damage, but other than that I like your take. My friend just started playing WoW for the first time (and I'm a seasoned vet with like 15 years of play) and I'm trying to teach him things and I'm sitting there like "if I was at this point, I wouldn't even want to play". He's doing tedious things like trying to figure out what to use as keybinds. He still has to figure out his proper damage rotation as well as how to notice + move out of mechanics (we did The Maw dungeon which was the only low-level dungeon with real mechanics, and he died to Helya spewing that purple stuff each time we wiped). Overall, after watching his experience, and watching this video, I can see why a lot of players aren't sticking around playing.

[@Rusaarules]

It's almost like you have to put some work in to be really good. What a fucking concept.

[@tylerporciello1222]

@@Rusaarules Yes but a lot of the old heads that play WoW have been for over a decade or two. So at the age of let's say 25+, they already have 15 years into the game. If it took you 5-10 to get good at the game, you really think some 25 y/o wants to spend the next 5-10 to get good at the game?

[@Rusaarules]

@@tylerporciello1222 You don't need 10 years to get good at a game unless you're a mouth drooler, especially these days with all the KZbin videos or guides you can read. Maybe your friend is an idiot who can't follow WoW's simple "button lit up, hit now" philosophy that most people can get.

[@flayymind]

you turned off the help(tutorial) so you didn't get new spells pop up to put them on your bar xD Edit: goes same for talents its gonna prompt you to spend them. btw new players cant select their starting zone they go into Exile's Reach ( it was made for that purpose). New players can't choose chromie time and have to go into BFA story. Edit2: you do not have heirlooms in every spot so the ilvl thing is a bit wrong for around 10ilvls or so. Edit3: liked the editing and nice voice keep it up :D

[@DrFunk-rk6yl]

That's insane that they have to start in BFA.

[@potatopatoto5183]

This video reflects how I feel whenever I want to go back to WoW. Dragonflight seems great at first glance, but I am afraid that I will get quickly bored, I won't find a guild and will be mostly playing solo. I really miss the experience I had with the Burning Crusade and the Classic servers seem dead, too nowadays. I really miss those times. I'd do anything to experience that again.

[@FoxTrotting1]

Classic era is alive and well right now, go play it

[@MhWow66]

My experience was doing the Pretend Dungeon was one thing...then being put into a BFA Dungeon with some bizarre mechanics that would make no sense at all to a newbie, let alone me having played since wrath. It would be like back in 2010 levelling and doing the likes of Shadowfang Keep, basic follow the route , tank and kill...then being put into Naxramus. I have recently stopped playing retail in favour of a private server on Mists of Pandaria and although im not a fan of the area, the classes played really well at that time. I keep trying to get back into retail but always just end up having a large Sigh and going back to my Shaman on MOP. Oh and level scaling of mobs....No thank you...i miss the old game. Really nice video..have subed.

[@TheDragonhawkKnights]

Hey, I recently cancelled my subscription to wow and uninstalled it from my system after playing wow for 17 years......I haven't enjoyed wow for years, the whole battle for Azeroth then shadowlands was just ick.....and then totally changing flying and making us use it or we can't do story quests....that was it for me.... I've only ever played wow as a solo player, and while I've made friends along the way, they're all gone now playing other games or not playing at all and Azeroth just wasn't fun anymore...

[@calvinstuart431]

I am not sure how you missed the part when you are on the ship getting to the island, they teach you how to go to spellbook and put spells on your bar. How did you miss that?! Also not sure why you stuck with JUST frost spec. If a new player thought frost sucked, wouldn't they try the other specs to see if they are better or just curious to see what they are?

[@sunkevYT]

One Time I decided to level as much as possible in classic areas. My gearscore at Lv 35 was awful. 1 itemslot wasnt even equiped because there were no drops for it. Battleling 2 enemies at the same time were rough. Btw. great video!

[@dexlab7794]

If you play a few dungeons you level 3-4 times pre 60, which causes your equipment to quickly fall behind in the open world. My suggestment is if pre 60 is basically a long tutorial, just give people armor sets every 10 levels that keep the player up to date and gives them a full starter pack of transmogs along the way.

[@sikhandtakerakhuvar3372]

Pandaria vendors used to (still do???) sell catch-up gear, cheap, so at least being undergeared won't be an issue. Maybe every expansion should have the same.

[@UnremarkableMango]

When heirlooms just came out (WotLK+), heirloom gear used to be worse than current level dungeon loot. You could get something from a dungeon and use it over your heirloom gear like a weapon for a couple levels before moving back to the heirloom gear. Looks like they've done away with that.

[@in2it85]

*Have you heard of the critically-acclaimed MMORPG FINAL FANTASY XIV ?* *With an expanded free trial which you can play through the entirety of A Realm Reborn,* *and the Heavensward expansion up to level 60 for FREE with no restrictions on playtime.*

[@xElectricGreenx]

Fax

[@MadnessRealm]

Came across this video while trying to compare my experience with the game as a relatively new player: - Started in Exile Reach, so far so good. - Encounter a bug in the Exile Reach dungeon where the NPCs seem to be stuck below right before the final boss so now I'm tanking the boss as an enhancement shaman while a warlock is attacking the boss (no other players in the party) - Move in to BFA. Acknowledged as a champion like I did some miracle, but I already know we skipped expansions, so I just let it slide. - Leveling is alright, but I do feel progressively weaker. - Hit Level 50 I think and I've mostly finished what I'm guessing is the original BFA story (completed the story in all 3 zones). - I'm following the campaign quest indicators still, and now I'm being thrown absolutely everywhere (Zandalar, Silithus, that Naga area I can't recall, Mechagnome thingy, etc.) It's confusing, and trying to do the quests there I'm now being rewarded gear that is lower item level then what I currently have, i.e it's shit and the monsters are getting stronger because of scaling. - I realize maybe I shouldn't be in this expansion anymore. Figure I was supposed to start Shadowlands so I try to find how to proceed. Need Google to figure out I need to go see Chromie. - Realize I can "start" Dragonflight, but not really because I'm not 60 yet. I'm tired, so I just create a Dracthyr instead so I can just jump straight to Dragonflight. - Clearly the game assumes I've been playing much longer than I was. There's a scene where Sindragosa's avatar is revealed like I'm supposed to go "Oh shit, it's Sindragosa", but honestly I still have no fucking clue who that is or why she's dead. - Finally manage to finish what seems to be the story of Dragonflight, and now I'm being asked to go in a raid to kill Raszageth. I don't have the item level to enter the raid. - Grind world quests, time warp thingy, etc. for gear. - I can finally enter the raid. Turns out the raid is already in-progress at Raszageth (why?). So far I've done...5 dungeons, and I never really had to care about boss mechanics before, the game never really teaches out anything, so I have no idea what to expect in a Raid. - I die. Not my fault from my understanding(?), not enough players stacked on my side to be pushed onto the platform, so we didn't have any tanks or healer on the platform after the knockback. - Now I just...wait there lifeless while what's left of the party kills the boss. How fun. /s - Boss is dead. Now Kadghar and Blue Emo Dragon Boy are pretending they killed the boss when I never even saw them during the fight. - Complete the quest and... well I don't really feel like playing again. I might give Classic WoW a shot once Season of Mastery comes out this Thursday but, meh. We'll see. The retail WoW team has some serious homework to do to properly design a new player experience.

[@camerontaylor3272]

New player here and I'd have to agree. When I started playing and got to kul taris I seriously struggled getting through anything. It'd take me way to long just to kill a single grunt and any quest wanting me to kill a boss was a joke. Tried asking for help but ppl would use lingo like i was supposed to know what it meant or theyd tell me to just boost! I ended up getting my GF into it just to help get through. For the quest I knew going into it there was ALOT of side quest to do, but it sucked not really knowing what I should really be doing. I'm up to lvl 65 now and I still just go around questing because I don't understand most of it and I'm so tired of googling stuff. It sucks knowing there's so much more to the game that I just don't know/understand and I'm struggling to find help (that's not Google or KZbin) hence how I found this video. Needless to say whenever I "feel" like I beat the game cause idk how to tell when I do, ill probably stop playing. And I really don't want too just tired of being overwhelmed

[@GamingRobioto]

Play Final Fantasy XIV, a far superior game for new players

[@farsound]

from 9.30: It seems like the sort of issue is the same that FF14 had with monks back in the heavensward expansion. you had to be really careful to not die against a bandersnatch (tiger mob) in dravania highlands (3rd zone in the expansion), if you were the same level as it. Would mainly contribute this to unable to do proper positional attacks at the time, and it could be mitigated with potions, food buffs, and help from the chocobo companion. in wow, it seems like there is less complexity (monk gameplay in HW as referance), but numbers balances out to seemingly create a similar issue. in short; "I can easily die if im not careful"

[@farsound]

as for the rest of the video: it does not seem like the wow leveling experience is that bad, if compared to a lot of other even worse options. and the good options are usually few but superior, which puts wow's leveling experience in bad light if only compared to them. however, the cost of playing with the subscription and extra fees seems to make the whole experience worse for players who just want to play to have fun (or play to have a goal-oriented game to play, like leveling a class to max), but better suited for those who are more hardcore or money to burn (by that i mean money you can spend without worrying about having enough for food the next week)

[@dustin9783]

It's an issue that early levels you are so powerful, but as soon as you start leveling past 20, the rapid leveling far outpaces gear score progression in a very unhealthy ratio.

[@Socrates21stCentury]

So True ... and well said! I played for (10+) Years, and quit (5) years ago ... and I haven't missed it ...

[@BigKrisco]

I just started WoW for the first time last week. I went w/ a Worgen Feral Druid. After the tutorial I ended up in a huge city, I forgot the name of it. And then led me to a place called Kul Tiera. Is this normal? Because I thought that was an expansion. Also, should I just dungeon spam for gear or continue campaign questing? Thx in advance, I have NO CLUE how to go about progressing gear wise; coming from FFXIV and taking a break til DT.

[@GoddamnBatman1]

This is interesting. Reminds me of a JoshStrifeHayes Worst MMO video. I was planning on hitting WoW back up for a bit and seeing how things are for a month or so. Subbed to see what else ya got.

[@patrickward8543]

Levelled a hunter recently starting from absolute scratch and I had no problems staying geared and at a relevant ilvl, without a single heirloom. I just levelled through BFA and hit up the rares for overscaled blues, ran casual bg pvp for gear from the loot boxes and got the quest rewards as I went. I did not step inside a single dungeon and I was more than ready for the DF starting zone at 60.

[@samends8863]

I tried Wow's Free Trail for the first time in mid-2022 because I just wanted to test it for myself. Here's my experience. So in 2022 you still have to make your race dependent on a class... okay. I went to the alliance site because it was dead according to the internet. There was only one "world" to choose from and since there was no further explanation, I went in there. Later I tried the Horde site, there were 2 "worlds" to choose from and again no explanation. I ended up in the world without extras and had no idea what was going on. - The layout could not be changed without external programs. - The character didn't jump, it took off and slowly came back to the ground. Gravity seems to be a thing. - Also, the char generally always hovered a little above the ground instead of actually being on the ground. Felt lazy to me. - In the CGI cutscenes, the music got so loud in between that you couldn't understand the voices. In the other cutscenes, the jaw wobbled terribly. In general, the animations were unpleasant to look at. - For one quest boss, the "boss music" only came when he was already as good as dead. - Mobs ran away or despawned in the middle of combat. - The combat system felt old to me. Just standing there and waiting isn't very exciting. At the first knockback, I thought the game had a glitch or bug. - In the character creation window, you could check a box to test your character to, I think, Lvl 50. After 2 days of waiting, it turned out that this option was not available at the time, but my char was still trapped in processing. Yes, I restarted the game because I couldn't find a way to get the char back and it was also only lvl 5. - A cash store has no place in an MMO in my opinion. - the endless grind wasnt fun + The graphics updates over the years have been worth it. For the fact that a free trial should encourage people to buy, Blizzard has unfortunately done a very poor job in my opinion. My conclusion: Wold of Warcraft is a very old game, with modern graphics and that's not enough for me personally. The old rickety house remains old and rickety. No matter how nice it looks from the outside.

[@shreknskrubgaming7248]

I'm not going to say that this was a bad video, because I don't think it is. I may disagree with some of the points within, but that alone doesn't make a video bad. I will say this, though; the issue here with a lot of content like this and even most of the comments I can see from this video, you're trying to emulate the new player experience, but you're NOT a new player. A lot of people are saying that they tried coming back after WotLK or vanilla, etc. but that's not the "new player" experience. I, myself, had never played WoW before Dragonflight. Maybe you and others didn't enjoy it as much as you enjoyed the old era, but I'm having a lot of fun with it, and many others are as well. Some of them have been playing for over a decade, and some of them are fresh out of high school touching the game for the first time. There's nothing wrong with disliking something, but comparing retail to vanilla or WotLK, it only makes sense that you'll be disappointed. They're essentially completely different games. That's why Classic exists; for players who want to experience that era of the game. For me, yes, leveling through BFA was not very fun, but Dragonflight was really enjoyable, and the endgame itself has been fun too. There are some points that I agree with. New player realms shouldn't be pushed, or even exist, honestly. You're much better starting out on a more populated realm. The BFA leveling experience could definitely be better, and the lack of choice doesn't help. The game overall, though, is fairly new-player friendly, and there are a lot of people and resources who will help new players learn the game. I know some people, especially the target audience for this video, are going to disagree with me. That's fine. Everyone is entitled to an opinion. The reason I'm commenting this is to give my take as an actual new player. Maybe I would have enjoyed WotLK or vanilla more, I don't know, I never played them. But I DO know that I've been enjoying the game in its current state, and that's what matters to me. It's important to see things from different perspectives, and this is mine.

[@Hurricanelive]

Honestly I would have a better time playing again in the mid to late 2000s up to wraith than ever think about returning to any server play. Was around start of Cat that really sundered a huge swath of the community. I think it had a lot to do with people just moving on, starting high school, college, out of college. It was a time of change just like the 90's were for a lot of people. Cyclical. The oddest thing at the end of my days I'd hop on, form a strong friendship with another person for a day or two and they would vanish forever. It was just a string of friendships week to week like being some lone wanderer traveling from town to town, doing odd jobs.

[@pugpug1953]

I quit after playing WoW for 5 years. I came back for dragon flight just for fun,, Was not impressed. Soooo I decided to make a new character for nostalgia, Got to the main city and was still NOT impressed. For me the games hay day was over. I wish all WoW players happy gaming.

[@PeteHeba]

I have tried to return to WoW several times and always quit becouse the leveling is so tedious and boring.

[@jezupercy3029]

I'll say my piece, I enjoyed playing wow at my own pace as a solo player with no pressure or expectations from the guild environments that are constantly thrust upon the average player, and it took me about 6 years of playing and quitting world of warcraft before I finally got my first max level character in wod (a frost mage), and then as I was totally gobsmacked at the insane amount of daily tasks and entry level requirements for end-game content, I quit again. The levelling experience was not only painfully slow, but the spells and abilities change all the time, which affected my gameplay between every time I had last played, I had take about 10 minutes reading through my spells and passives to figure out how to effectively play my mage again, and rereading abilities was painfully boring. Sure, the meta changes a lot at end game, it keeps it fresh, but it added an extra learning curve every time I reopened the game until I hit 60, joined a guild, and was pointed towards icyveins (which in this day and age is never even accurately up to date with in end game content anymore), which is something that blizzard never mentions in-game, there was no 'for advice on your builds, here's a link'. There was nothing from blizzard. Anyway, someone has said further down that the levelling system is 'optimized for alts to level quickly', which I completely disagree with, the levelling process is constantly being nerfed by blizzard as players find new ways to cheese it (modifing exp gain via grouping with others, certain dungeons, majority tagging on a mob still giving exp when a higher level player finished it off, some of these are really old :) ). everytime the level cap goes up, the time to hit max goes up, they constantly attack and nerf/remove the cheese levelling methods that players used to level alts every xpac, and in shadowlands they even got rid of twinking, which was indirectly helping new players who were in the dungeon with a twink that was one shotting everything which-I would argue, from a new players perspective, it was fun, and it would hype up those newbie's making them think 'I cant wait until I can 1 shot everything'. I believe that seasoned players should be allowed to do what they like at that point, if they want to help their friends level up faster, or sell levelling carries for in game currency, it only hurts the player-base's experience by removing those options. The players who were paying a sub, then saved up enough in game game currency to buy a 15-60 dungeon carry because they wanted to try another class all of a sudden lost those options, and it's not like heirlooms are cheap either, heirlooms are incredibly gold heavy for new players, then after they finally get their heirlooms, the levelling process is still very slow, because levelling is not optimized for the new players who have never played, it's optimized for the experienced players, who have full heirloom gear, it's optimized so that these veterans don't 'level too fast', because if they 'levelled to fast, they won't be able to sell boosts'. Which is in itself a really sad reality that blizzard is pushing its player base into. Even though for the modern hardcore wow player, 1-60 can take very little time at all, for the average new player, it's enough for them to quit several times over, like I did, and I'll be honest, after 3 weeks of getting my 2 main characters up to par in dragonflight, and after doing lfr for 2 weeks and reaching around 285ilvl, I quit again, the solo content was agonizing, and I was declined 90% of the time when applied for mythic 0-5 keys to try and get my weekly vaults. I know what you're thinking, "make your own group" but I don't have the energy for it, and if you take the perspective of a new player, they probably don't even know what mythics or raids are (because when I finally hit 60 the first time, I entirely had no idea, and honestly, raiding was much easier to wrap my head around), and a newbie definitely won't feel confident enough to consider creating a mythic+ group, meaning that 90% of the time when a 'newbie geared' player is applying for a low end mythic dungeon, they are simply shut-out by the rest of the in-game community, because even as an experienced player, I found it hard to motivate myself long enough to finally join a group, but a newbie would most likely just close the game and give up, or try again tomorrow.

[@petrus4]

Frost has always been the crowd control spec, so it's not surprising if frostbolt felt weak for you. My very first toon in WoW was a mage, back in 2006, but I switched to Hunter for several reasons. In PvE terms, the biggest advantage of the Hunter is that you have your own tank. As a mage you die very very easily.

[@rsx2310]

My thoughts exactly. Looks like he choose frost mage specifically to create a bad experience? I recently started WoW retail again after a 12 year break and I'm having an easy time levelling with demonology Warlock spec. The first dungeon I did was thoroughly confusing, I'll admit that. But the second dungeon was already better and I'll keep making an effort to learn it.

[@petrus4]

@@rsx2310 I was playing a Survival Hunter in BFA, before it apparently became raid meta for a while; not that I care about that. The Hunter is still my go to in WoW, although the game is completely pointless in my mind now. The levelling game has been gutted, and I consider the pumper scene a plague that I want nothing to do with. I have just picked up Warframe for the first time, and I'm having a lot of fun.

[@rsx2310]

@@petrus4 I had to look up what "pumper" means:-) So people are demanding high dps for dungeons? That would by for mythic or normal/heroic as well?

[@petrus4]

@@rsx2310 There's just a general worship of numbers; and it's by the sort of people who if you run five mans with them while they are levelling an alt, they will claim that said five man content "doesn't matter" while simultaneously wiping said group repeatedly. Basically they're people who focus on DPS numbers, the meta, and using macros/addons and such, but who have no real clue about the genuine fundamentals of the game, and view anyone who cares about such things with contempt.