This Man is so dumb | Eddard 12 | A Game of Thrones | ASOIAF | Obsidian Nights Podcast

[@GrayArea]

Join my Discord here discord.gg/HHf3hwWx

[@goatmc]

I wanted to interject that George Martin called the Winds of Winter chapter Alayne 1&2 & not Sansa for a reason. She’s playing the role of a mummer & she’s leaving the horrors of Kings Landing behind her, but she’s not TRULY SANSA yet! She has to take her power back. Right now she’s still being deceived by Littlefinger & Randa Royce for some reason. I don’t anticipate this winged knights tournament ending well for Sansa for some reason & I’m scared that Harry the heir is going to try and get down with Sansa because I don’t think he has marriage on his mind, he’s about to be the Lord of the Vale, why would he marry a bastard girl like Alayne? But I think he’s going to try to sleep with her & that’s my fear. Hopefully, Harry goes the way of Sir Hugh for Sanaa’s sake & Young Lord Robert lives a long life. (sweet Robin). With GRRM, often it’s the weaker & craven characters that eventually find they’re courage & power. Although sweet Robin might die of an overdose of sweet sleep.. @grayarea Ps: who’s voices is Young Robert hearing? Why did Lysa & Robert have so much trouble sleeping in the Vale I wonder. That weirwood throne?

[@paxsopranodynasty7555]

All the schemers died too , so ...... ???

[@burtan2000]

The word you're looking for in describing Ned's... shortcomings is that he lacks IMAGINATION. This is true of all honest people: lying comes hard to them from lack of practice. The distaste that lies have on Ned's tongue left him little experience in lies - which is really saying something because Ned lived an enormous lie every day of his last 15 yrs. He told his once, and then never said it again. Howland probably helped him come up with it or someone did. He just wouldn't talk about it. It helped that he was so taciturn to begin with. The quiet wolf. But when rumors started about where Jon came from, Ned shut that shit down IMMEDIATELY and used his "lord voice" kinda thing and the servants and Cat obeyed. Even yrs later when Jon asks him about his mother as they're about to part ways forever, Ned still can't lie. Ned's failure is primarily a failure of imagination. The September 11th investigation the commission said that we failed in a bunch of ways, but the conclusion was that we failed to *imagine* such a thing possible. As a nation, we were far from innocent. We haven't been naïve or innocent in LOOOONNNGGG time. But the way the commission described that conclusion, it just sounded like a somewhat innocent ignorance. Like we couldn't even think of such a dastardly plan. Well, Ned can't either. He knows they'll kill children - they almost killed his son! I'm sorry i get a little defensive over Ned. My favortie character from day one, even though i came into this party knowing he dies. I always saw him as martyr. and that he's truly a tragic hero even though his downfall is due to a virtue. My fondness for him as a character was cemented with the way the Mountain Clans speak of him. These are wild folk that live waay out there and barely belong to the larger civilization. Usually, those types don't like the powers that be down in the big city (to them WF is a big city), but these guys are uber loyal to him, and to his memory. They march for "The" Ned and his little girl. They want vengeance as if he were their father, as if Arya were their daughter (and she not even arya but they don't know that)

[@soleildujour4228]

I wanted to say: about the “white hart” which Robert and courtiers go hunting for, this is also foreshadowing of King Robert’s death. The white hart is a white stag that is often shown wearing a crown in heraldry. It has mythical status and often symbolises innocence/ purity. When shown crowned, the white hart can represent the burden of kingship. Notably however, in this chapter the white hart (stag) is found almost totally devoured by wolves. Hence here we have the sigil of the stag (Baratheon) and the wolf (Stark), portraying that Ned causes the death of Robert through how he handles the information he discovers. It is the inversion of the scene in the first chapter where the dire wolf has been killed by the stag, ie. Robert causes the death of Ned by naming him Hand and causing him to go south.

[@gregorysmith3234]

When you forget it’s Wednesday and you see a 50 min GrayArea pod out of nowhere 🤯🤩

[@staytuned2L337]

Right though? 😅

[@Rosie-yt8nd]

The thing that really hit me while revisiting the story, is how much Robert failed Ned. Every step of the journey Robert failed to back Ned up. He asked him to help him, yet he undermines him all the time. He basically leaves him open and vulnerable to the vultures. They mess with him because they know Robert won't push back and just let them. His fucking best friend who is there for *him* and doing it the way he knows how. If Robert really put his fist down and backed Ned up, I think things would have gone differently. And it makes me feel so fucking sad for Ned. This is why things work in the north, he has enough people to back him and that *gives* his decisions weight. Had Robert done the same, things would have turned better. Ned would have still mistakes but they wouldn't have had such severe consequences. Robert threw him into the deep ocean without a life jacket. it leaves me sad and questioning much does Robert actually care for Ned anymore beyond what he's useful for him. Those two brothers who once fought a war together. So tragic

[@forcesmuggler7667]

Ned was the only one who believed in the Baratheon Dynasty. Robert didn't want to rule. Renly and the Tyrell's wanted to usurp Stannis. Hell, the Tyrell's willingly joined the Lannister's after Renly died. The Faith didn't care about the rumors of Joffrey, Tommen and Myrcella being bastard born of incest until years later, the North and Riverlands chose Robb as their King. The Vale and Dorne remained neutral. The Iron Islands chose their own King as well.

[@kjs0391]

Robert failed everyone, including himself.

[@HelenWA]

robert was a useless f*ckwit. He never even cared for his own child nor would have been faithful to Lyanna. How could ned expect him to care now?

[@justineharper3346]

“This Man Is So Dumb” The title has me rolling 😂

[@luvprue1]

Ned is so naive. He really thought that Cersei was going to run like a scared little school kid.

[@josephhill7618]

Technically....she would have if Robert hadn’t got poisoned and if Ned had actually revealed the secret,I mean that was the whole point. Only reason Cersei and her screwed up family didn’t face any type of punishment was because Ned didn’t say anything to Robert.

[@luvprue1]

@@josephhill7618 Robert wouldn't have got so drunk if Cersei didn't make sure that Lancel gave him strong wine. Technically if Ned never "Warn" Cersei, and if Sansa never told her of her father's plan to send them back Robert would have probably lived to see another day. Ned would have live to see another day and Joffrey would have continued to pretend to be nice to Sansa.

[@AwesomeMusicLady]

Ned you honorable fool

[@reneebarger5194]

Great session again Lady Gray. Ned is more naive than dumb. And he has become lax at revealing secrets since his own have been secure for so long. He thinks he commands the kings power, but realizes too late that his king had no power. Thank you for giving us a hour of intelligent discussion to cherish for a week.

[@jaimelannister1797]

Saw the title and it just made me sad. Ned was doing his best :(

[@E_Stormborn]

Poor, dumb Ned 😂 I love Ned so much.. Thanks so much, Gray 🙌🏼

[@thisguy8106]

Also.. its crazy to think of how much would have gone differently had Robert turned to Stannis to be Hand (since he'd been there for so long)..

[@rodneyharvey3341]

I think he was...but cersai probably talked him into giving it to Ned which pissed Stannis off...first storm send now this...why did cersai accompany Robert to winter fell...to coax Ned..

[@Divine_Chareka]

I just came out of an exam, & this is super refreshing Edit: I think the entire Westeros continent is just complex. The Starks can not do well down south. They are like ice which melts when it's exposed to the sun. But if you reverse it you'll realise that the Starks are stronger in The North & those who think themselves clever men of the south, they can only end up trapped by them wolves of The North. Remember what happened to Littlefinger in GoT S07.

[@Valkanna.Nublet]

When it comes to how Cercei knew and could make plans about Robert's hunt I think there's a simple answer. This was always the plan. She knew Robert liked to hunt and loved to drink. So as soon as a Lannister was his page she had the plan to get him so drunk that something would happen. There may have already been multiple attempt where nothing happened, which is why there were no questions during the hunt about what was going on. Joffrey coming back early is a red herring, it's something that couldn't be controlled. Also it would not matter, because him staying would not alter anything.

[@TheTam0613]

I absolutely loved this collaboration! What a succinct, and compassionate understanding about Ned! Thank you both so much!

[@edinscot56789]

I don't think Ned thinks women are weak. His own wife was hardly submissive or docile, just look how she fought off an assassin to save Bran. Cersei was a level of cunning and conniving he was unprepared for, which is different from being misogynistic

[@majdmurad7379]

I don't think the ladies accuesed Ned of misogyny. Ned definitely does not hate women. He underestimated Cersei which was a social norm for Westerosi sociaty, that women are not on the level of cunning to play the game.

[@edinscot56789]

@@majdmurad7379 Well when you encounter women like Lyssa Aryn you begin to see exactly why. Talk about crazy! Catlyn seizing Tyrion was incredibly poor judgment, a decision rooted in emotion which totally contradicted the well thought-out strategic and logic instructions of her husband to ready the North for war. Leaving the bat-shit Tully sisters to one side though, are women suited for positions of power? Well...yes and no. It depends on three things: their life experience, their mentors and their upbringing. Would Sansa make a good Queen of the North as the show ends suggests? Absolutely, yes. Why? Because of her years of training under Little finger moderated by her father's ethical nature bringing a sense of balance between Stark honour and Baelish cunning. Was Cersei an effective Queen? In many ways, yes. She inherited her father's political acumen and was a far better ruler than either of her sons ever were. She was also a damn lunatic who blew up the Sept of Balor, but that's show Cersei so it's not really Canon. Will Dany be a good Queen? Probably, yes. I would say it's highly likely. She was tutored and mentored very wisely in her formative years so I believe in the books she will be. Unlike her ancestors she also has empathy for the common people and compassion so she has the potential to be the best ruler seen in centuries. But...this is George RR Martin we're talking about here, so you never really know

[@corbinskywalker]

Gray Lady returns

[@angelc9079]

Ned is playing checkers on a chess board.

[@ricodan7617]

Another banger. Ned’s a tragic character haunted by his past, present and future

[@ohhhmindy4380]

I loved this one! The Norse mythology comparison you made is 💯!

[@maxmercer1931]

It's still March 2021 and don't have TWoW. Where is it, George?

[@GrayArea]

I can count on you for these comments! They always make me laugh!

[@nikkiward1715]

These podcasts give me JOY!!🤩 Thank you GreyArea

[@blacksheep9834]

I love the story with thor and the serpent and how it perfectly parallel robert and rhaegar thats amazing theory a huge fan love the vids mama gray

[@made-line7627]

The word you're looking for might be "insight". Ned lacked the *insight*

[@ThatDangerousWolf]

Going back through this podcast for eps I’ve missed and this title made me pass away 😂😂😂😂😂

[@ashleyofnaath]

Aside from Ned discerning between his children and Jon Snow, this chapter includes another pretty damning clue against N+A=J. Cersei accused Ned to his face of impregnating Ashara and stealing the child, then references Ashara's suicide. If Ned loved Ashara so much, wouldn't you think he'd have some sort of internal reaction when Cersei brought her up, similar to how Barristan does whenever he's reminded of Ashara? Instead, Ned doesn't have one single thought about Ashara here, and I think that's quite telling. Contrast that absence of reaction with what happened when in the same discussion Cersei mentions Lyanna. Immediately upon hearing her name, Ned thinks of how he wants to weep. Why would he want to weep? Because he loves and misses his sister. Wouldn't you think if he had a secret wife whom he fathered a child by, that he'd love/miss her too and therefore any mention of her would elicit some semblance of a response? Especially if he allegedly took their child after marrying another woman and never got to acknowledge their marriage? No tears for her? It's because that never happened. Lastly, I half believe that Ned also wants to weep because he's realizing that he won't get to keep his promise to Lyanna in its entirety. Meaning he won't get to tell Jon the truth about who he really is. As it happens, I think this notion is indirectly confirmed when Bran mentions talking to Ned's ghost in the crypts and Ned being sad over something to do w/Jon, though Bran can't remember what specifically.

[@CommonSenseWarrior37]

On the contrary, this chapter further supports N+A=J. And here's why. On this chapter, Cersei throws Ashara right in Ned's face, when he confronted her about all of her children really being Jaime's. She point-black asked him if Ashara killed herself because of the brother he slew or the baby he stole from her. First of all, that certainly indicates that Cersei has, at the very least, heard that Ashara is Jon's mother and that she killed herself because Ned stole her baby from her. When GRRM was asked about this exchange, in 1999, he explained that Cersei was trying to make Ned mad. And that brings me to a few other instances when we see Ned get mad in the story. 1. The first is when Cat confronted him about Ashara being Jon's mother. He asked her where he heard that rumour and told her to never ask him about Jon again. Cat has stated that this is the only time in their year together that Ned had frightened her. And, as we know, "Ashara's name was never spoken in Winterfell again". So, the only time that Ned got so mad that he scared her, was when she brought up Ashara! 2. Then, on Ned's trip south, Robert said that whoever Jon's mother was "she must have been a rare wench to make Lord Eddard Stark forget his honour, even for an hour". And, then Ned's mouth "tightened in anger". 3. And the last time is this exchange with Cersei. In fact, Ned didn't even get mad when she bluntly told him that Jaime threw his son out of the window, intent on killing him! When she brought Ashara up, however, Ned decided that this conversation was over and he responded by issuing his threat that he was going to tell Robert and informs her that he doesn't want her children harmed, so she needs to get out of Westeros and never come back. So, in each of these cases, the moment Ashara is brought up, Ned gets mad. People don't get mad about things that they don't care about. This tells up, basically, that right up to the end Ashara was someone that Ned cared deeply enough about, that the mere mention of her name, or a reference to her that he deemed less than flattering, was enough to instantly piss him off. Now, let's look at an infamous part of this conversation, where some people say that Ned does not think of Jon as his own child. Let's assume, for the sake of the argument, that Jon is, in fact, Ned's only trueborn child, with Ned having married Ashara before even agreeing to marrying Catelyn (don't worry, I'll get to the proving of this theory, but for now let's just assume it's true). In this scenario, we can shed some light on the following conversation). "Your brother... or your lover?" "Both. Since we were children together. And why not? The Targaryen wed brother to sister for 300 years to keep the bloodlines pure and Jaime and I are more than brother and sister. We are one person in two bodies. We shared a womb together. He came into the world holding my foot, our old maester said. When he is in me, I feel... whole." "My son, Bran..." "He saw us. You love your children, do you not?" "With all my heart." "No less do I love mine." And then, Ned thinks: "If it came to that, the life of a child I did not know, against Robb ans Sansa and Arya and Bran and Rickon, what would I do? Even more so, what would Catelyn do, if it were Jon's life, against the children of her body? He did not know. He prayed he never would." In fact, in this situation, Ned places himself in Cersei's position, where he makes a straight apples-to-apples comparison between his "trueborn" children and what he would do to protect the secret that would ruin their lives and what Cersei was willing to do to protect her children. He then asks himself what Catelyn would do, if she was to discover that Jon (being, in fact, trueborn) was a threat to her children. Okay, so now let's just see how Jon can be Ned's trueborn son. 1. I believe that, from the very start of Robert's Rebellion, Ned did "what was right", as Jon said. 2. When word reached Ned and Ashara of Lyanna's disappearence, the two of them likely headed back to the Eyrie. When word of his father and brother's deaths reached them, they turned north, travelled throught the Mountains of the Moon and washed ashore on Sweetsister, where the near death experience drew them even closer, likely resulting in Jon's conception (the timeline fits perfectly). 3. Ned the did the honourable thing, just like Robb and married Ashara at White Harbor. 4. He then goes to Winterfell, calls the banners, joins forces with Jon Arryn and they head to Riverrun to enlist Hoster Tully to offer the aid of the Riverlands. 5. Negotiations are said to have taken place, which resulted in terms requiring Ned to marry Catelyn and Jon to marry Lysa. Negotiations which I believe were hastily agreed to, given that Robert was trapped at Stoney Sept and required immediate help. 6. Ned concedes to Hoster's demands and, upon returning from Stoney Sept, marries Catelyn in his brother's stead. And at that very moment, just like he told Robert, he dishonoured himself(!) and Catelyn(!) "in the sight of Gods and men". What do people do in the sight of Gods and men? They swear vows. In this case, marriage vows. Which means that the wedding itself was dishonourable. But why would that be? Well, if Ned was already married, it would definately be! 7. I believe that this was the final nail in the coffin for Brynden "Blackfish" Tully, whose relationship with his brother was already strained. Interestingly, their differences are largely attributed to Hoster's insistence that Brynden marry and Brynden's adamant refusal to do so. But the two always managed to work things out, they were brothers, afterall. But something happened the day that Catelyn married Ned that and Lysa married Jon Arryn, that changed everything. Something the Blackfish found so egregious, that he publicly announced, at the wedding feast(!), that he would be leaving Riverrun and service to House Tully. 8. Lastly, when Ned confronts Cersei about what happened to Bran, she full well admits that he saw them and then asks him if he loves his children. That implies that Bran was a threat to the children's lives and their inheritence. Ned then asks himself what he would do in her situation. 9. To me, this is where Ned subtly draws a parallel between Cersei adn Catelyn. In his mind, he sees them as two women in strikingly similar circumstances. Both of them have children that to the outside world are all thought to be legitimate. However, one distinction between them, is that Cersei knows that her children are truly bastards born of incest, whereas Catelyn is completely ignorant to this fact.

[@juliancain3872]

@@CommonSenseWarrior37 Order of the greenhand huh? Well I agree with most of this. But technically, Cateyln was asking about Jon, she asked if Ashara was his mother, but the two are still mentioned in the same conversation. That throws no wrench into the N+A=J theory, just pointing out the part that I always took issue with the Greenhand's theory. She was asking about Ashara, but she was asking Jon anyway you slice it. Even if it turned out Jon wasn't Ashara Dayne's son, Ned clearly had some feeling for her. But to have to trade the woman he loved for the woman who was partially reponsible for Ned, Robb, Roderick, and the entire red wedding, by kiddnapping Tyrion, trapping Ned in Kingslanding, ignighting a rampage in the riverlands, and the slaughter of thousands of innocent people. That really has to be rough.

[@sophiawilson8696]

I am sorry ☹️ it Brandon Stark and Ashara Dayne who are the parents of Jon Snow.

[@sophiawilson8696]

@@CommonSenseWarrior37 wow what long post the truth is Ashara Dayne and Brandon Stark are the parents to Jon Snow and Daenerys's parents of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark, he felt guilt because he gave away his sister child. He couldn't keep her because he look like too much of a Targaryen.

[@CommonSenseWarrior37]

@@sophiawilson8696 Brandon and Ashara could according to the actual time-line be the parents of Jon Snow, though it is unlikely. However, from the time-line perspective, it is mathematically impossible that Daenerys is Rhaegar and Lyanna's daughter.

[@countbalerionofhousetatter2624]

stannis as hand is one of the great WHAT IFs.

[@rodneyharvey3341]

Heads definitely would have rolled

[@nickycha8428]

Happy Saint Patrick's Day!

[@kiyakia]

Great episode! I love the gals accent too she sounds a lot like Bobby from the expanse and I love that.

[@SHARKVADERS]

GA!!!

[@ashleyofnaath]

I completely agree w/the co-host about Ned using his honor as both a coping mechanism and a means of atonement, though I think the atonement is due in part to unrevealed information. I don't mean to be controversial, but I've come to suspect that it was Brandon who had a dalliance with Ashara, and it was Brandon who impregnated her. Ned found this all out when he returned Dawn to Starfall, and in exchange for providing him a wet nurse/their silence about it, he would take the blame for fathering Ashara's stillborn child should anyone ask questions. This could also be a gesture to protect Catelyn so she didn't have to face the reality that neither Stark brother ever wanted her. At times I've even questioned if Brandon found himself in a Robb situation wherein he was betrothed to one woman, got his lover pregnant, decided to choose the lover's honor above his own and marry her (Ashara) instead of his betrothed (Cat). Brandon did make a mysterious pitstop between leaving Riverrun and meeting up w/his father's entourage; maybe he met up w/Ashara for what was supposed to be one last rendezvous before his marriage, learned Ashara was pregnant, and decided to break things off with Cat. Regardless of that specific part happening, Brandon having an affair while being engaged to Cat explains Ned shutting down the Ashara rumors in Winterfell. He wasn't protecting himself, he was protecting Cat from the truth about Brandon. This also explains Ned Dayne's story to Arya; he was repeating the story Ned Stark and House Dayne had rehearsed all those years prior. In any case, I say this all to say that maybe if Ned's siblings hadn't brought such dishonor upon their house, he wouldn't have been so absolute with his personal honor. But because they did what they did, he felt obligated to devote his life to restoring House Stark's reputation. Also, if you believe that Ned loved Ashara, this theory makes that all the more tragic because Ned's brother was knowingly sleeping with the woman Ned loved, and Ned had to take responsibility to protect them both. I'll close w/this: If Ned was willing to allow others to believe shameful lies about him to protect his sister and nephew, why wouldn't he do so to protect his brother and his brother's children?

[@majdmurad7379]

Ladyyy Gray returns with the juice 🤩 Although the title of the video cracked me up, but I'd say Ned is more delusional rather than dumb, I can't wrap my head around the idea of Ned actually thinking the Lannisters would pack their shit and run away, Ned should have known better! This chapter is fantastic and I love your analysis, it's packed with so many emotions, you see regret, pride, guilt, fear, grief and so much more, it also sets up couple of the most major events in AGOT and has a subtle conversation exchange, it's amazing how GRRM can convey all of this in few pages. This chapter also gave us one of the most iconic quotes in ASOIAF “When you play the game of thrones, you win or you die. There is no middle ground" 🙌🏻 Looking forward to Daenerys chapter next week 🥳

[@shakeemdiggz2354]

You should do Norse and Greek mythology video's

[@stephaniespain9849]

Yes! Awhile back she said she was taking a few class on the subject.

[@goatmc]

George Martin called the chapter Alayne & not Sansa for a reason. She’s playing the role of a mummer & she’s leaving the horrors of Kings Landing behind her, but she’s not TRULY SANSA yet! She has to take her power back. Right now she’s still being deceived by Littlefinger & Randa Royce for some reason. I don’t anticipate this winged knights tournament ending well for Sansa for some reason. @grayarea

[@JoniukasVader]

Gray Area!!!

[@thecopperbroom3657]

I saw the title and thought to myself... this must be more Eddard!! Uggghhh! He makes me so crazy, he's so stupid and Robb too!

[@goon143]

That went quick .

[@edwinbrown7179]

What a great birthday gift! Thank you for the video!!!

[@stephaniespain9849]

Happy Birthday!

[@ht212135]

Ned is a tragic character but boy was he stupid and too trusting.

[@Rahim.ali80]

Queen GrayArea first of her name Queen of the Andals & the Rhoynar, and the first men, Lord of the Seven Kingdoms & Protectors of the Realm(social media platforms as well). May long she reign.

[@nathanherren6708]

Robert wasn’t dumb, he had to have known that the beautiful, charming and charismatic dragon prince didn’t “kidnap” and “rape” his betrothed. He was just a proud douchbag warrior that wanted to conquer anyway, he just needed a reason, and being “out-done” by Rheagar was the ultimate blow to his ego. There were no more actual dragons and the crown was clearly weak by the king’s madness and the prince’s softness. Ned was just kind of a dim, kind-hearted and loyal best friend and bother. Just like Jon, his heart and goodness was going to get him in trouble and eventually killed.

[@astrorockwitch]

omg YES! when Ned decided to trust Cersei, I knew it was over for him. I was so pissed and mad lol

[@jamestaylor8037]

Ned grew up with soldiers..he learned how to die long ago

[@LitaaBee]

Yaaasss. Notification Gang! Love You Gray 😘

[@Craigravon]

I'm greatfull you're continuing with GOT game of thrones. From all of us geezers thank you 😊

[@danjordan1]

JUICE TIME!!!!!!!

[@tomboone6064]

You are awesome! Not only do you have the best GOT videos you're very intelligent and, I swear I'm not hitting on you, but also pretty cute

[@GenerationBright]

New Zealand!!

[@luvprue1]

Ned shouldn't have said anything at all to Cersei until he had his men with him. When it was discovered that Bran was awake/and alive. He could have to Sansa and Arya that they were all going back to see Bran. He could have ask Robert can he leave to see Bran. He could have escorted Sansa,and Arya home with promise that they will return. Once they get back home leave them there and take a army and Theon to kings landing. He should take the turncoat with him so that he can keep a eye on him.

[@whittenaw]

34:22 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@christophertracy7136]

Hello Lady Gray! I hope U 2 do A Clash, Winds and A Feast and Dance with Dragonstone.

[@jamestaylor8037]

Blame it on the poppy.

[@LSK1]

♥️♥️♥️♥️♥️juice!!!!

[@Infamous1503]

Eddard Stark is not dumb. He is honorable! RIP Ned. She is my queen! I don’t want it! Lol

[@AwesomeMusicLady]

if Ned had accepted Cersei’s offer to be hand until Jeofferry came of age does anyone really think she would have honored that? I seriously doubt It. She would have plotted to kill him later

[@traumer9622]

But it would have bought him time, especially because no one was expecting him to not play by the rules

[@King_Mac80]

Again I just don't see how Ned is dumb for offering Cersie a faux pardon, for starters I don't believe that offer would've been extended to Jamie because it doesn't take the 3 eyed crow to see it was Jamie who pushed Bran off the tower and he had killed some of Ned's household guard including the Captian. Ned probably saw some parallels with Cersie and Lyannas situations with their kids minus the brother fucking lmao plus I just don't see how anyone could account for Cersie having Robert killed on the hunting trip especially not in a manner that couldn't be tracked back to her with concrete proof.

[@adityakhangar]

Hey there I'm literally watching your videos after 2 years. Just after GOT ended, I stopped watching your videos too. I think I'll start watching once again

[@flowerofthecosmos]

!!! Somewhere toward the first half I think Grey mentioned two names of other people who had some really good analysis of Eddard and I can’t find it! Anyone pick up on it?

[@majdmurad7379]

BryndenBFish and PoorQuentyn from (Not A Podcast) podcast.

[@illuminate7077]

Ned should have stayed home .I feel robert knew why john arron got killed and did nothing . The small folk deserve leaders like ned .

[@josephhill7618]

He wasn’t dumb....he was literally just a Honorable man put in a cancerous pit. He wasn’t a politician he was a soldier,he was the only person in the series other than Jon who actually thought of others rather than himself. Just like today’s society who is the dumb self righteous who believe in help but actually refuse to do so while the actual people who try to help get stepped on for it. It’s not a matter of an IQ it’s a matter of being a sheep or “you’re the problem”. Also Ned did the one thing to try and save himself for his daughters but he was still killed for it. He should of just stayed in winterfell period.

[@jamestaylor8037]

Tell.me varys who dyou truly serve..ive given up tryin to guess

[@southernsunshine1149]

Ned didn’t have the shrewdness...

[@CHLOCHLOLP]

is it bad that i found neds chapters insufferably boring up until the last few ones before he died lol. i couldnt wait for im to be dead because i was so tired of his boring ass POV. I dont dislike his character, i just found his chapters to really drag on.

[@mrlivershot1]

✌

[@saymyname2417]

Are you really surprised that a character who is pure good and integer is depicted as dumb in the ASOIAF series? Have you never noticed that this series is promoting anything that's debased and bad?!

[@deecawford]

Ned died because of Cat his stupid wife. My opinion of course. Everyone loves the Starsks, to me they are relatable characters. I’m still thinking that Mera is some kind of a secret as well. There is a reason that Ned keeps thinkings of Howland Reed. Neds dreams here are. Incredible but I just can’t figure them out for meaning.

[@Sck519]

Ned doesn't know he is playing a game. Everything Ned sees he believes. He believes in laws and how things are, way too much. Ned is what the hero usually is, but GRRM wanted us you know the hero is a fool

[@MDSwrestler]

Which of the conniving people fared better? At least Ned’s team won and all were inspired by him. He saw beyond himself. That’s not dumb.

[@forcesmuggler7667]

I really want to know how Ned thought he was going to talk Robert down from hunting down Cersei and her kids down when Robert returned from the Hunt? Cersei cuckolded the King, and Ned aided and abetted them by letting them leave King's Landing. Robert hasn't listened to Ned once the whole book. Ned couldn't talk down Robert about Dany who was thousands of miles away. Tywin "The Rains of Castamere and Sack of King's Landing" Lannister would not take this lying down. His men were already attacking the Riverlands. War has started. Also, he tells Cersei to get out of King's Landing, but won't tell Jon about his mother until he takes his Night's Watch vows? Hold no lands, father no children, wear no crowns, win no glory, etc. Sounds like he is protecting Robert's claim. Not that those vows would save Jon from Robert's wrath. But damn, protecting a person that already tried to kill his daughter and not telling your nephew? Not okay with that.

[@sophiawilson8696]

You have a point but remember Viserys and Daenerys were out in in the wilderness of Essos. He left them only for years, it only when he heard the Daenerys's pregnant that's when he wanted to strike. He knew that her Lord Dokira husband had army.

[@maddyg2320]

@Force Smuggler..... Excellent comment 👍

[@ApplesandDragons]

17:06 "Sansa's perception that uncovers the truth." Her imperception, I would say. It's a funny situation. You see, Sansa is blind to Joffrey's faults because, in her mind, beautiful people are good people, and Joffrey is beautiful. And that's why she defends Joffrey so strongly against Ned. So Ned's ability to derive something useful from Sansa's comment despite the derangement in it says more for Ned's perception than for Sansa's. But I can see how I would overlook that if I were trying to concoct criticisms of Ned. :P 17:40 "You can see her developing into a very observant and smart character." Absolutely. She's observant about things she understands and is interested in like clothes and decor. Based on Sansa's superficial observations, the reader is often able to draw a more meaningful observation that relates to politics and character motivations, most of which Sansa doesn't notice. She gets better at noticing them as the story goes on. 18:31 "Sansa's new way of thinking about the world" from cersei and littlefinger Yes and no. I think Sansa learns from Cersei and Littlefinger, but that essentially what she learns from them is not to be like them. So observing them is helpful to Sansa in that it improves her awareness of malevolence and constrains her overly idealistic world view. But I think there's a tension in Sansa's story regarding the question of whether her challenges will cause her to constrain her idealism too much. 22:10 "in trying to do the right thing, Ned ends up fucking up the most shit. He causes more destruction in Westeros as a result of his actions than I think any other character in the story." It's like condemning the antidote for causing the destruction of the poison. I disagree with it for two reasons. 1. It's over-simplistic to reduce everything bad that happened in Westeros to a single cause. It alleviates people like Robert and Cersei of any responsibility for the bad, as if Cersei's incest and Robert's wh*ring played no role in the death and destruction that ensued. 2. Westeros and the royal family were already sick and collapsing before Robert recruited Ned, which is why Robert recruited Ned. Everyone else in the Red Keep may have been irredeemably corrupt, but as Dany's story demonstrates, you don't fix a corrupt society by resorting to corruption yourself. I think your point would be that Ned's story demonstrates that you don't fix a corrupt society by playing by the rules either. Between those two points reside some of the story's big questions, I think. 24:30 Ned as a character and a plot device Ned's chapters tell a story independent of the rest of the story, and so does his life when I look at the past that Martin has fleshed out for him and compare it to his present and ending. Ned's story is a plot device for the rest of the story in the same way that my parent's story is a plot device for my own life. It's a self centered way of looking at the character. I notice that Martin leverages the reader's tendency to center his interpretations around himself and his favorite characters to both punish and reward the reader. As punishment, it creates blind spots in the reader that serve as predictably good hiding places for Martin to place clues to the mysteries and themes. As reward, the more immersed I can get into the character's mind the more visible some clues become. It generates incredible interdependence in the audience. 24:55 "He has to die in order for his children to become who they are." You're crediting the strength of Ned's children to Ned's death. But that only makes sense from a cosmic or out-of-story perspective. In-story, the credit goes primarily to the children, because they're the ones who overcame the challenges. That doesn't justify the existence of the challenges, many of which were traumatic, or justify the death of Ned. Likewise, it doesn't preclude the possibility or likelihood that there would have been other challenges for the children to face if Ned had not died, or that those other challenges would have done a better job of strengthening the children than the canonical challenges did. This preference to credit the strength of Ned's children to Ned's death rather than to the children or to the values that Ned instilled in them seems like intentional blindness to the ways that Ned's values permeate the story after his death and frame the dilemmas for the reader. The intention is apparently to justify Ned's death and to do so by moving between an in-story and out-of-story mode of interpretation as needed. In the beginning you criticized Ned for bringing his northern ethos about justice with him to King's Landing. In doing so, I think you threw away one of the most important tools that the story provides for making sense of the dilemmas in the story. Though to be fair, the story invites the reader to throw it away. For example, one function of Ned's code is that it skews the host toward mercy. Because it's obviously harder for a person to overcome his conscientious objection to killing when he has to do the killing himself. So it relegates killing to a last resort, as it should be. Ned could have taken the easy road by arresting Cersei until Robert returns, but he identified that doing so would condemn Cersei and her children to certain death. That makes Ned the man passing the sentence, not Robert. To pass the sentence with the knowledge that he won't be the man swinging the sword, or that he wouldn't be able to swing it in good conscience if he had to, causes his conscience to object and therefore places him in contradiction with the code. Then the results of his decision play out in a variety of ways, all of which I think we're meant to track and weigh. If you were to ask an informed Arya if Ned did the right thing with Cersei she would probably say no, and if you were to ask an informed Myrcella she would probably say yes. You two complement each other well. Still heavy overtones of fictional-male bashing in retaliation for Dany's ending. Keep up the good work. Get well soon.

[@traumer9622]

👏

[@saymyname2417]

Your though process is *MUCH* too complex for this video... 😊👍🏼!

[@Phrankster163]

I hadn´t read the books either, when I saw the first episode, but to me it was a dead giveaway that both Ned and Robert would die, when I saw that it was Sean Bean and Mark Addy, who played them. Nothing against their performances, that were stellar, but my first thought was that there was no way they could get a pair of A-List actors like them to be on the show for more than one season. Plus, Sean Bean dies in pretty much every movie he´s in, that isn´t a romantic comedy, which was another dead giveaway. I honestly thought that he would die in episode one and I was surprised, that they got him for the entire season. They´re both great actors, but I can´t have been the only one, who got it spoiled that way. In retrospect, it might have been better to have less famous actors playing them, but then again I´m sure that a lot of people gave the show a chance based of their names alone, so it´s a double edged sword, you could say.

[@daniellestanford8673]

Perfect title 👍👌😍🤣💯

[@sydnitheromantictaylor112]

You're doing great with your podcasts Gray Area. I love them.

[@angadsingh9314]

Baltimore accent?

[@GrayArea]

Indeed

[@mjc-jones3750]

Bonjour/good day GA & guest. Good podcast content. I get the norse myth, but i find it can also be biblical as Eddard was like sacrificed in the telling of the tail (john the baptist) and his kids were like the gospels leading up to Jon being a saviour (Jesus) and Danys the Mary magdelin, in essence not literally (she didnt die that way). But the story is amazing. I hope my writing will be close to being as fascinating. On Neds dreams i think he also had visions when he's by the weirwood tree and he looks in the pond, i believe he saw his death in parts not how he dies but by the parties involved.✌❤🇨🇦

[@sharonpollitt1524]

as usual, another awesome podcast!

[@thisguy8106]

Kills me that Ned didn't "play the game" a little better. I get that it would hurt his character.. but blah. Lol. Its so bad!

[@theprogressionsproject6706]

I swear these podcasts always make my week!🙏🏽❤️

[@aura2367]

Personally, I don’t believe in “good” or “evil/bad” in the traditional sense. Simply, people make their choices and endure whatever consequences that come. However, assuming “good” and “evil/bad” do exist, Ned’s character should be a warning to us all. He was so “good” and righteous that he endangered his entire family (especially his two daughters). Ned’s unbalanced, unyielding “good” IS a kind of “evil” in that sense. You can be so good that it’s bad, and in his case, it cost him and his family everything.

[@yadisdis4207]

Ned was honest and just in a cruel and unjust world. He does have his naievity. I doubt the people under House Bolton would favor serving a flaying house over the wardens of the North. It isn't even Ned's fault, the Boltons should never have been as powerful and capable as they were. Their sigil and motto do not inspire any sort of loyalty.

[@King_Mac80]

I think ppl overstate Ned being stupid, I just don't see how anyone could foresee Robert being killed by a boar remember a Kings hunting party is far bigger than what we saw on the show (because of budget reasons).

[@whittenaw]

There's a video on the psychology of the different characters in got and i can't recommend the one about Ned Stark enough.

[@sydnitheromantictaylor112]

Lol Ned Stark was an idiot when it came to politics, he definitely didn't know how to play the game of thrones. He was too honorable and it got him killed, Jon is a lot like him especially in the show which why Jon wouldn't have been a good king.

[@kirkcavanaugh1493]

I don’t think he went down there with the thought that he is privileged as much as with the thought that the people would respect rank as they are, according to what the rules SAY at least, supposed to? But that turned out to be his bad.

[@mayaowens3388]

Ned did not have street smarts. He did not know how to navigate people. Every command he gave in the North was followed.

[@Lukerbts]

I wonder why Ned never trusted Cat with the real Jon story. I feel like he could have confided in her and she would have kept the secret. Was that ever addressed in the books?

[@zjboogie012]

Lol he doin his best

[@anecdocuentosehistorias4976]

Princess if you re suggesting that should have anticipated robert's death while he was hunting-. No average human could have anticipiteated that. I both agree Ned wasn't smart. but sending Beric Dondarion was a brilliant move

[@janwouter5215]

Hahahahah my reaction whenever Ned opens his mouth, "This man is so dumb"

[@wyzasukitan]

THE TITLE TOOK ME TF OUTTTTT 🤣🤣🤣🤣💀 Gray I almost asphyxiated seeing this title in my feed

[@sophiawilson8696]

He trust Cersi to do right thing. It canon if Ned told the Robert that none of the kids were his he would kill them all.

[@sleekoduck]

Ned Stark is how it would have played out had Baelor Breakspear lived.

[@thetalesofelbek7042]

🤣🤣🤣

[@chrisgermain3608]

The Northerners were never known for their wits " Fam Doesn't know nothing" ~ I'm a Toronto Mans

[@GabrielKlaasen]

Asdfhhdw the title alone sent me! Now time to enjoy