This META Will Ruin Ranked! // WARNO Gameplay

[@the-macjagger]

Later the same evening in a big game....I was 1v2 and got Heli spammed. The combo of falling back slowly to buy time and quickly building up a new line works perfect. Should definately go into your bootcamp series!

[@SaucyNetworkEntertainment]

Awesome! Yeah i will definitely make more scenario examples

[@Shortmansam1993]

Thanks for playing it out and not complaining the whole time. You acknowledge that you don’t like this type of strategy and why, but you also showed how to counter it. Most people play WARNO for the realism/tactical challenge and this sort of strategy takes advantage of that.

[@AlexDahl]

There's nothing realistic about sending helicopters on a suicide rush to kill enemy command vehicles

[@cravinghibiscus7901]

@@AlexDahl at least not in a front line battle scenario.. extraordinary geography can allow for some rear area havoc.. But the game is supposed to represent main battle elements engaging.

[@PermadeathHD]

@@AlexDahl I think they mean that because people try to play RP or more tactically they don't metagame, and these guys are willing to metagame.

[@robustduck805]

Yes, shown how to counter it if you know it's coming. The problem is it's a game of rock-paper-scissors. If you bring the wrong stuff, you're screwed. This could be countered properly because it was known what was coming. Nobody starts with almost AA only in any normal circumstance. And even then there still was the problem of AA getting overwhelmed by the sheer number of targets and running out of missiles. It's pretty ridiculous.

[@luckerooni1153]

@@PermadeathHD The longer the game is played the less people will "play RP" since to people trying to win by any means short of cheating, you're just doing "bad strategy and tactics." edit: I say this because it has happened in any game I've seen people take seriously at all in the last 20 years.

[@Russian_Opinion]

interesting fact. Among the many phrases that Soviet units say, there is one that refers to the work of the poet of the Silver Age Vladimir Mayakovsky. Namely, to a small poem "eat". During the fight with the NATO units, you can hear "den tvoy posledniy prikhodit boorjoy" The complete poem in a fairly accurate translation into English sounds like this: Eat pineapples, Chew foie gras, You last day is coming, Damn bourgeois 11:28 unit says it

[@NachoBearYeah]

Mayakovsky is GOATed

[@meech8310]

funny i was reading this as he said it

[@adrißer]

Kinda suprised about how little arty is used as a Steel div 2 player. That MG-ATGM-AA combo for example I was suprised it was not blown skyhigh by arty

[@drink_kompot3656]

yeah either arty or a quick lgb dropped on top of that

[@A-Warthog-cc1wm]

YES! a 1v1 with live commentary, loved this one man keep it up!

[@MrSupasonics]

Helispam? Didn't Eugen learn anything from WRD? That was a sole reason makes me give up any hope on WRD multi back in 2015~16 and I was not the only one. But WN still has it? Damn Eugen. Feels surprising how stupid they still are. There are a lot of ways to prevent helispam but somehow stupid Madmat still thinks it is valid tactic?

[@SaucyNetworkEntertainment]

its not as bad as it used to be and it CAN be beaten but only if you are prepared for it. They need to just limit the amount of helis you get in some of the battlegroups OR you just need to assume theyre gonna heli spam when you see certain battlegroups.

[@christater5540]

I’ll be honest I’m not sure any div BUT 11e could pull it off, because AD is generally good in the game and most other divs don’t get the combo of Gazelle Canons + good ATGM Vic’s. Something like the Mi-24 is properly expensive to not be spammable

[@JShu98]

@@SaucyNetworkEntertainment I wonder how hard it would be to simply limit the amount of helicopters one can spawn for a certain interval of gameplay. Like limit the helicopter tab to one spawn per minute for the first five minutes of the game or something like that. It's a very crude solution, but I think it's the only one that will work short of community policing.

[@nbil213]

@@JShu98 Yeah, that's called Phase system from SteelDivision, which Eugen decided to abandon(along with other great stuff like lite\heavy forest ,normal armor\pen values etc.) in favor of mediocre and outdated Wargame framework. Alas.

[@JShu98]

@@nbil213 Kinda funny, considering almost every other mechanic is borrowed from SD2. But that's true, there is a framework for it. I wasn't the biggest fan of the phase system, but that mechanic could be adapted to deal with heli rushes.

[@MrDan144]

Seeing all those strellas miss all those shots on all those targets nearly made me rage quit watching the video! Well done on the temperament on this one!

[@SaucyNetworkEntertainment]

You and me both!

[@ScottNguyenRCAC]

Even winning lottery is easier than getting a hit from Strellas

[@thiefsleef6752]

This game has to have some bias against Soviet era vics

[@MrDan144]

@@thiefsleef6752 Yeah and like most games has positive bias towards anything American. If you believe Wargame Red Dragon the US Marines could dominate the entire red army (just so long as they had cover in a building and a logi truck nearby lol)

[@christopherjohnson5432]

@@thiefsleef6752 The Soviet artillery is insane though. If you even think about setting up stationary defense in a city, the half of the city your in gets fire bombed and all of your units burn.

[@mrjamesho]

Great counter against heli spam! Awesome gameplay as always!

[@Kabubi_Habibo]

Incredibly impressed on how you handled that. Strategically and mentally. Awesome video man!

[@wheatfield.]

Heli spam is cringe

[@tristanhicks9824]

Not too hard to counter tho, OP as hell when they first come out unexpectedly

[@SaucyNetworkEntertainment]

This was nearly impossible to counter even though i knew he was going to do it. Its insanely strong

[@tristanhicks9824]

@@SaucyNetworkEntertainmentnow that I’ve watched the video I agree

[@LynxErgo]

Heli rush is mega cringe and pussy strat

[@thundercatld3719]

@@SaucyNetworkEntertainment You only brought Airplane AA, you didn't have a single ZSU-23 in you deck, the difficulty you had in countering was not the helis it was that you over spent on aa and nothing to fight his ground units until you reinforced. The player played that deck exactly how it was meant to be played its Airborne with great inf, good recon, great heli, great airplane. That is exactly what he did. If you want to complain, complain about the division not the player because he did nothing wrong.

[@verrezen]

I applaud your tolerance. A heli rush can understand. A heli spam I cannot. That said, if you would have had a bit more support from the rng-gods, you would have trashed him epically.

[@zeldas_her080]

I find heli rushes really cool (I'm a sucker for helicopters) but this is just- boring. Who finds it cool to deploy like 37 helos? It's a way cooler thing to have 4 with elite infantry supported by maybe 1 or 2 attack helos

[@markymark9740]

Warno needs to update the rng on aa in general. I get that they don't want helicopters getting shot out of the sky in milliseconds. But the lack of HE and abysmal accuracy even when helicopters are meters away don't make engaging gameplay and reward cheese strats. I think a good compromise would be to make aa missiles more accurate the closer a helicopter gets rather than a flat accuracy across all ranges. That way it encourages players to play tactically with helicopters and hang them back rather than just smash them on the frontlines. I suspect the same formula could be uses for atgms since they suffer the same flat accuracy across all ranges. Might help with balancing tank meta also.

[@sesleri6457]

Live commentary 1v1s are the best. This was a great game.

[@randysangarr]

so glad i came across your video! i love these types of games

[@Calvert1212]

I actually enjoyed it. Fun watching all those helos get torn to pieces lol

[@rykehuss3435]

1:53 you can double-click the icon to choose all same type units that are visible. So if you zoom in/move camera a bit so that the other AA are not in the picture anymore, you can double click to choose that group of 3 units instead of individually selecting them one by one

[@SaucyNetworkEntertainment]

I know. The reason I dont is to only select those 3 since i only want to give orders to THOSE 3 and not touch the other ones on the right side

[@rykehuss3435]

@@SaucyNetworkEntertainment Like I said if you zoom in a bit , or move the camera so that the other units arent visible anymore it will only select the visible ones. Its a common RTS shortcut, and I'm glad the devs put it in

[@SaucyNetworkEntertainment]

I know this shortcut. I just like doing it this way to keep a global view. Thanks for still detailing this shortcut for others though

[@TheRelaxingWord]

It amazes me that people like this, knowing that its a cringe meta but choosing to go with it instead of adapting and learning a harder skill. Just goes to show there will always be people who are bad at things and would take the easy way out.

[@2fat4airborne44]

This was/is a problem for ages with Eugene Systems (Wargame series) and never got resolved. its the one strat you can win the most in terms of statistics. it gets even more wild when both opponents choose to do that and it turns into pure rng who is getting on top of the situation. Its more of a grind mentality to do that for sure. Still it gets results and thats was matters the most long term. In my oppinion in the realm of competetive gameplay/thinking, consistency is something people value the most or at least very highly. Predictable results means time well spend if you accepted the amount you have to invest. To loose issnt fun, just part of the process to win more often - hopefully. if spam/overwhelm is possible, people will do it - no matter what system they have to exploit for that. Its effective. Attack with overwhelming force to ensure success is logical amongst other things. Eugene Systems never struck a suitable balance for that mentality. Most game devs cant. One of the issues why RTS is kinda stale if not dead for the most part.

[@007relliott]

Definitely a fun match for me to watch!

[@McGeifer]

I mean you knew what to expect from this player and still had a very hard time dealing with it. If you play a normal start you are basically dead aren't you?

[@SaucyNetworkEntertainment]

Yep

[@mockingbird0901]

I'm surprised you didn't bring a mortar or two, considering the amount of infantry you had to fight. Mind you, haven't played this game in literally years

[@FarmHend]

Serve him right! 👍 Bonus points for make him into full meltdown

[@jeffszurgot]

You can go Quick Hunt (N) for fast and attack :)

[@SaucyNetworkEntertainment]

I know. I use that a lot of times. Really useful

[@TheWorldsprayer]

i love how he said it was "top tactic" when he's losing.

[@alexandrdmitrievich]

"Может чайку?" gets me every time

[@StalinsGhost]

Those gazelles and light choppers are too cheap compared to how much damage they output.

[@warmachine5835]

I'm not sure about too cheap but rather too many per card/able to take too many cards. They are extremely fragile, and if they aren't used in spam you have to provide more traditional combined arms support for them to be effective--you saw the OSA at the end flatten a formation of them for instance. In a situation without a critical mass like this, a handful of AA would keep them from being as effective and would force the user to lead with ground units to sweep out enemy AA/otherwise suppress enemy AA. Also I didn't see any SPAAG/AAG used, which will really do a number on helos like this. The AAG does the same kind of targeting that tanks do, where if something gets stunned it'll shift to another target and try to stun that. Since AAG do a ton of suppression damage, they can rapidly stun/destablize the whole formation giving SAMs more breathing room. And you know, since those gazelles are fragile they'll also kill quite a few outright. The downside is opportunity cost, which Saucy showed pretty well in the opening--he had to invest in so much AA that he needed to fall back quite a bit after the opener to get space for him to bring in ground forces to actually fight the infantry the helicopters brought in. Which I think is one of the suckiest parts of the helo spam--yeah it can be countered pretty well with SAMs/SPAAG, but you're sacrificing a lot of points that aren't going to purchasing infantry/recon to actually take and hold ground. It's just dirty and a sign of game imbalance. But that's just my take. Probably lots of WARNO players out there with a better perspective than mine.

[@StalinsGhost]

@@warmachine5835 yea good point, the problem i find is its like a gamble strategy in a blind match up, this div can do other things than choppers but the other player has to also gamble into deploying mostly aa. I dont think its good for a strategy game.

[@AskaLang]

Hey how do you switch between the units in the same group? (like at 01:58) And is there way to make a control group (Ctrl+1/2 etc seems like aint working) Thanks!

[@mightymediocre3352]

you can use TAB to switch between units in group

[@DannyJLloyd]

Press tab to cycle through selected units Control groups do work, Ctrl+num like you've said. Maybe if you use numpad it doesn't work?

[@AskaLang]

@@DannyJLloyd Yeah thats it. Thanks!

[@verusAuxilium]

Some helis of your own operating behind your aa net would have been a strong counter to this. If you had a pair of the aa hinds with the recon hind, he would have been hard pressed to run amok behind your lines

[@SaucyNetworkEntertainment]

bro yeah i need to try this one time. try to get some attack helis to the rear

[@jcal9151]

Is no one going to talk about how infantry is pretty much worthless right now and it’s all about spamming helicopters and tanks.

[@onepangaean3018]

Not true. French inf get 850 meter rocket launchers and are very deadly.

[@Frost-01]

cuz its fun watching "ride of the valkyries" (Vietnam cough cough*) play out in a game

[@Topeydopey]

This is like the wayward queen of wargame

[@vendocorsabatido9884]

I love the content! u can bring more like those

[@Sleexb]

I love the part where the french plane fly over 7 AA pieces without taking a single hit.... such a merciful people those french, they could have just rolled their way into Moscow and ended the cold war by themselves probably

[@TRChungabunga]

french game maker lol

[@GenRax]

I just lost to this meta, then I found your video. What a coincidence google!

[@SaucyNetworkEntertainment]

haha yeah this meta been crazy lately. might be the vid

[@GenRax]

@@SaucyNetworkEntertainment players use whatever tools that are available. It's been there for years. I hope eugene will do something soon

[@getchwaltzetki6022]

Bruh, i haven't play warno yet because i still wait for it to be more stable.. But what i like about this series is i can always spam cheaposss tank+AA and zerg rush the enemy, and it work most of the time

[@elsharpos]

Awesome game ! Intense . GG

[@SaucyNetworkEntertainment]

Thanks for the visit

[@alph_jvne]

insane game dude, thank you for your content

[@SaucyNetworkEntertainment]

Glad you enjoy it!

[@janesrbrusyt]

In Warno this "Meta" is already like 1year almost in game :D nothing changed :D

[@Boss_Man1371]

Still think if they would allow things to be more lethal then cheese strats like this would not be suck a problem. By lethal I dont mean a direct damage buff either but if AA was accurate and wasn't so heavily reliant on rng so a cheap helo with no ecm couldnt dodge AA just as easily as something like an Apache or Akula then this play would always fail and force a combined arms playstyle. This logic can be applied to many different areas of the game like the tank spam vrs atgms and AT infantry in forest or the vopos spam overrunning roughly the same number of high tier or elite infantry. Just my thoughts on the state of the game.

[@SaucyNetworkEntertainment]

they just need to limit the amount of helicopters in this battlegroup and others that have the gazelle cannons etc. Its not that big of a problem in general to be honest. These helis in the 11th are just too many and wayyyy to cheap.

[@Boss_Man1371]

@SaucyNetworkEntertainment That would work yes but what about MI8T rushes or apache rushes or any other helo rush with helos that dont all die to one hit of even the weakest AA?

[@rosvall216]

Well, you he got wrecked at the start and couldn't get back into the game. Good hustle!

[@Spookie425]

You need to value your infantry more and repair them

[@herrvorragend3103]

How do you know that hr come with heli spam?

[@SaucyNetworkEntertainment]

because he did it the game before too and people dont change strategies that often.

[@herrvorragend3103]

@@SaucyNetworkEntertainment did he win last time with that?

[@evulclown]

@@herrvorragend3103 That would be a yes and it upset saucy

[@Jokertard221]

but wait, you ranked 11thE as B tier in ur ranking divisions video, how could this happen????

[@SaucyNetworkEntertainment]

The tiering doesnt take CRINGE or dumb META gameplay into consideration

[@barbosaguzman6101]

WP dude, Im still learning the ropes in Warno - love to rumble with you when im better :D!

[@druegnor1703]

Just another day in WGRD..owh..wrong game

[@acton2916]

Ridiculous that you think that helispam should be singled out as "meta" when 5e exists.

[@SaucyNetworkEntertainment]

even as the 5th, you simply cant counter a heli spam, unless you already know its going to happen like me in this match. meta means most effective strategy available and heli spam is definitely the current meta, even though its a trash one.

[@noonenihil7295]

heli spam didnt work out too well when russia tried to take the airport next to kiev

[@kurthasedd7923]

Hella cringe. One thing to be thematic and have a helicopter heavy, air mobile battlegroup with a few gunships and all kinds of infantry, this kind of thing isn't that. It's not thematic, it's not fun, it's not inventive or smart, it's just cheap cringe

[@A-Warthog-cc1wm]

you gotta love some guys defend this shitty strat by saying it's "legitimate" like it's fun to play against or have any counter against unless you know it's coming

[@kurthasedd7923]

@@A-Warthog-cc1wm Nothing legitimate about it. If you know what's coming you can counter it with spamming AA, like saucy, but it's supposed to be a balance of multiple units types and not a game of rock-paper-scissors

[@A-Warthog-cc1wm]

@@kurthasedd7923 not only does it defeat the purpose of the game, its also *very* boring and end up being a match that come down to "who can spam more units than the other person". you basically have to turn you brain off at that point to enjoy to match.

[@ataarono]

You lack gun based AA I guess.

[@ultralaggin8467]

i mean hey some people just like helicopters if he wasnt allowed to do that theyd put a limit on when you can make em

[@Lex200680]

They should just limit amount of helicopters in 11e, basically it is the only division that allows such cancer

[@fastfolky]

Sorry you didn't enjoy the game, I really did. I don't know you but after about 5 minutes I wanted you to win like my future depended on it. This kind of dynamic creates a real villain.

[@hyrondongle2473]

Heli spam is awesome… especially the victory aspect of it

[@mavor101]

Helos suck unless the other player buys zero AA at the start. Shit availability and super easy to kill with pretty much anything.

[@mythicalrp5642]

Always satisfying to see heli spammers get owned like this. I actually got caught off guard when I first faced someone who also uses the strategy but I learned to counter it quickly but sometimes I'm gonna use AAs as the backbone of my forces and be surprised when the enemy uses ground forces as their core

[@Greenturo]

Air force seems too fucking cheap if he is able to nonstop bring helos planes and special forces in.

[@Gabberag]

its really fun to exploit the exploiters, tho!

[@nuttyjawa]

saying "I hope I didnt ruin a vid" at the start is pretty disrespectful

[@SaucyNetworkEntertainment]

part of the gig i gues

[@evulclown]

I mean 7:22 indicates that it wasn't disrespectful at all

[@artemisgames2150]

I don't see the problem. The other player used units that he could and wanted to use, and you were able to counter him. If commies didn't have any viable counters to this deck, then it would be a problem. It doesn't even look that annoying to deal with, but it takes away from your initiative because you need to focus on countering.

[@Chrischos]

Wich sounds just like a strategie wich has also risks as shown altough daucy was falling back at the start hid enemy never realy recovered from all the hells lost altough st the end he made a attempt but too late

[@MichaelDavis-mk4me]

In any game with a rank system, only victory matters, at any cost. If a tactic is horrible and ruins the game, that's to the developers to fix it. At the end, you use the tools given to you, if spamming helicopters is the best strategy, then player are going to use it. It kind of reminds me the old days of Dark Souls where people said drinking Estus was not cool in PVP since invader didn't get as much healing. I feel bad for the other player, but the devs made this decision, and I'll use every tool I have to win, even if it's not balanced or enjoyable for the enemy. That's why balance is important in games, you can't ask players to balance the game themselves, especially since they won't agree on what "balance" is.

[@SaucyNetworkEntertainment]

yes but its still cringe. Eugen will definitely fix the 11th airborn

[@MichaelDavis-mk4me]

@@SaucyNetworkEntertainment Yes, it is cringe to see it been played, I'll give you that. You have the feeling that this shouldn't be allowed.

[@kainoctis7724]

What a nerd spamming helis

[@evulclown]

7:22 Was kind of sad to see, I guess you were looking for content and wanted to create a narrative for the video. Looks like they had 2 cards of helis just like you did, but certainly early game spam rush tactics are very cheesy. Helis die (or are made useless until they die) very easily by AA guns, thankfully Eugene tweaked things but even a year ago that was the case. It's quite cringe that they clearly beat you in the game you had before with them and they're far lower in rank and ability than you which has obviously upset you. The ranked community is very small, they seem to even be a fan of yours with you offering 0 dialogue back which could have corrected their spammy way and instead you rush to upload a video when you beat them instead spamming back. Biggest thing ruining the game is... Look at that map. It's a strategy game and you're playing on a bowling alley.

[@SaucyNetworkEntertainment]

you can clearly see that i try to reply but i am unable to since i dont know how to do that while in-game. So why dont you just relax. Also you can see that he apologized and it wasnt about winning or losing, it was just about having an enjoyable experience and we both didnt like the gameplay style. If you dont like me or my content, feel free to watch others. I am here to just post entertainment and i dont care about drama

[@leerzeichn93]

Geez all the complaining was pretty cringe.

[@SaucyNetworkEntertainment]

who complained?

[@leerzeichn93]

@@SaucyNetworkEntertainment I am honest: the time I wrote this comment you really complained for a whole minute about people that spam helicopters and the meta behind it and I thought that was too much and you really overexaggerated. Until the game started and I saw the swarms of helicopters coming your way. I changed my mind. You were completely in your right to complain.

[@DuroSVK]

Disgracefull, really

[@brandonwalter536]

It's like a sweaty play style. Can't enjoy the game.

[@SaucyNetworkEntertainment]

yeah that was the purpose of this vid. to show that this is unfortunately the state of a portion of matches.

[@cravinghibiscus7901]

big respect for you my man, meta is fine for competitions, but it is also a crutch for players to compete at higher levels using bad game balance. It would be dreamy to have matchmaking that took your deck and opponents into account for rank-reward stuff.

[@zegikniet9999]

why cant they just make helos die faster its stupid.

[@evulclown]

They die fast with AA guns and all the helis there died to missies in like the first minute of the game, I'm no fan of spammers either but it's kind of exaggeration.