This MISTAKE is going to be EXPENSIVE!

[@RickWB2009]

i'd ask Zenith if they would sell me some new blocks with that hole not drilled. Then I'd match drill the hole in the block to match the hole in the nose gear mount. No disassembly, no painting, probably the quickest easiest way.

[@jerrylittle7797]

THIS!

[@petelemon8984]

i was thinking the same thing

[@sysfx]

Almost shouted "order the black part without that hole"

[@waytooslow]

First thought as well.

[@wayneschenk5512]

Yep first thing I thought of as well.

[@rickdeweese8445]

New undrilled block, transfer punch, drill press, done.

[@mikeryan6277]

I was thinking the same thing.

[@DavidBruner_NJ]

Same here. Buy a new un-drilled block.

[@johnreed8872]

My 2 cents... call Roger, see if a larger bolt size is acceptable, or a new un-drilled block. Great weekend..M.P. on Saturday, then M.P. on Sunday! My 2 favorite builders! Same high quality of workmanship, materials and meticulous attention to detail... vastly different budgets and access to resources! I'm Lovin it!!

[@davidmills6477]

Just go up a bolt size.

[@todddraper9002]

It seems like you could step up to a larger bolt in that assembly and center it between the two holes.

[@DrT_MD]

I love this video. As a first time builder, i have made so many mistakes of all three types, it’s frustrating. Everything still falls within the tolerances in the construction manual, but every subassembly has little flaws that irk me every time I see them. Thanks for sharing and being honest about how it goes, even for someone with years of experience working on aircraft.

[@jimcaufman2328]

There is an old A&P saying that has some truth. "Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with a cyarola and cut it with a crash axe." don't get yourself down by thinking you are the only one with this problem. I would have shimmed to fit.

[@johnjensen2217]

I think the easiest solution would be to shim the resulting gap.

[@KitplaneEnthusiast]

I'm already in the process of doing that! You're right-I think this is the best solution.

[@flyod26]

You might consider adding a shim between the two plates, to take up the gap that was present when they parts were just clecoed.

[@kennethsmolana9865]

Reading your replies to multiple suggestions it sounds like you are on track to a simpler less costly solution. In the aircraft modification and overhaul industry, what we would do is install a freeze plug in the bad hole and re-drill. Relatively quick and easy provided you have the capability.

[@donwtsn]

If you didn’t want to replace the black plastic block, perhaps you could oversize the hole in the powder coated part/move the hole to the correct place and then add a bushing to sort out the oversized hole?

[@mrkevinjmiller]

Maybe sandwich a small shim piece between the perpendicular stop plate and the structure so that it sits a small distance back, matching the position it was in when you drilled the holes.

[@KitplaneEnthusiast]

Other people too have suggested I add a shim under the double plates. I actually hadn't thought of that! That is what I'm going to do!!

[@rdennis1983]

Glad I saw this. We are just about ready to do this to ours.

[@STOLPILOT]

I would probably look at adding a doubler to each side and re-drill. If concerned with strength, form an L-bracket and tie into the firewall.

[@charlesbrewer6552]

That would be my solution

[@Jbmc65]

When the border opens back up would I ever love if I could come over and see your planes. i am also wanting to buy a zenith and I would like to see some of the diffrences between the cruizer and the Suoper duty. I am in Sarnia Ontario, only about 1:15 minutes away.

[@prestonmiller9552]

What if you filled the hole in the block with two part epoxy and then after it is well cured, re-drill the hole in the block? Just a thought.

[@MrRwalls33]

Old video so I’m sure this has long ago been completed but I don’t like the bolt for that assembly anyway. Enlarge the hole and use a steel bushing there and you would have fixed your issue and had a more durable configuration for minimal weight.

[@brandonmorse9317]

I just received all of the firewall parts to convert my 601 to the puck suspension. Different plane but the fire wall parts are very similar so the info came just in time. Thanks for the content.

[@ericthomas8147]

Could you shim another layer of aluminum or steel in there so the plate goes a bit lower? Edit: nevermind, I see you answered that.

[@garycummings1706]

Would a larger bolt solve the problem?

[@KitplaneEnthusiast]

Gary, I did think about that, but I'm not sure if that would still make the hole perfect. It might-I'm not sure. I'd have to drill out the blocks to 1/4" to try it, and if it didn't work, then I'd have to replace the blocks too! LOL

[@daverobinsonTnT]

Mark, On a quick look I'd say you do not need to replace all of that structure. The block in question is a phenolic bearing I believe and you can do a couple of simple things to address the problem. ( i ) - I might perhaps manufacture a thin spacer that matches the footprint of the structure bolted to the bottom of the aircraft (Nose gear lower bearing support), up to the edge of the firewall as it's EOP. I'd then transfer the hole patterns (bolts and rivets) to it using the one of the existing pieces (it is to be assembled with) as a template - that is the one of the two lower supports it will rest on - and probably replace the bolts with longer grip length ones and rivets with longer stem length ones, to accommodate the thickness of the new part which is intended to lower the other two, so that the holes align once more. ( ii ) - However, in my capacity as a liaison engineer at the OEMs where I work, the solution might be to order a new bearing* - depending on its comparative cost and supply lead time with the rework mentioned above - or to very simply rework it by drilling out the old hole with a large drill (say three and one half to four times the diameter of the existing hole, if possible) and inserting a light interference plug (made of phenolic) that is adhesive bonded in place which can then be drilled to your need. * I'm guessing that 'black' part is indeed made of phenolic or some similar material and not metal ... ?

[@KitplaneEnthusiast]

Dave, You are absolutely correct! Someone else mentioned a shim under the double aluminum 'plates' on the bottom. That is exactly what I will do! I never thought of that and it's so much cheaper and easier. I sure appreciate all the comments here as there are so many different perspectives that I learn from the comments.

[@jeffgarrett7450]

Put a doubler on each side and re drill simple

[@davidlirio1]

Have you seen UL Power's turbocharged UL520T? 220 horsepower available all the way up to 15k feet for the same weight as the classic engine. It seems like the perfect engine for a backcountry airplane where actual elevation and density altitude could come into play. Im sure designing a mount would require some R&D but it would be another option for Zenith to offer when selling kits.

[@KitplaneEnthusiast]

Yes the engine looks incredible. But I’m all set to install a bullet proof Lycoming on the SD!

[@cebroschriseberhart7557]

Couldn’t you add a plate that doesn’t protrude past the firewall that would lower the two base plates that you got bolted now

[@richard8181]

Correct Assy sequence in manual would have prevented this. But now you have several remedies, either oversize bolt or bush white part. Plenty of filing and reaming either way. Good luck 🤔🇦🇺, I personally would not remove that white assy.

[@KitplaneEnthusiast]

My white assembly is not yet riveted to the firewall so it’s easy to remove. Also, the manual has nothing to do with this. The manual has the correct sequence of installing all the parts. Remember building an airplane is not a mindless task. A lot of people like to blame the construction manual (I’ve seen manual complaints on just about every airplane) but any project requires a lot of thought from the builder. Even though I try to think ahead on everything I do, I just didn’t realize that the cleco’s were not squeezing hard enough. I wouldn’t blame this on the manual at all.

[@drahn9140]

That's one reason I like to use Screw Cleco's when there is a thick stack up.Are the holes too far off to re-drill for a larger bolt where both pieces will clean up. It appears there is plenty of E.D. (edge distance). Another option is to have the bottom of the block machined so the holes line up.

[@davidwhite2011]

I googled screw cleco and didn't come up with anything. Are they known as a different name?

[@dcrahn]

@@davidwhite2011 Some call them Wingnut Cleco's. Where I retired from we just call them screw clecos. There is also some we got a few years before I retired that don't have a wingnut, just a plain hex and a screw gun to run them down. Many , many years ago we did make our own adapters for the wingnut type that we could click into our production screw guns. www.tinmantech.com/products/hand-tools/clecos-and-fasteners/cleco-wingnut-fasteners.php Google is not as good as the hype about it is, which is why I used Bing as a search engine.

[@chichotta]

Just reinforce the aluminum part and use next size bolt.

[@anthonyamadio1998]

can you get the black plastic parts not pre drilled

[@KitplaneEnthusiast]

Probably, and that was my first thought. BUT...drilling out one block would be easy. I'm not so sure I could drill out the second one to perfectly match the first! EDIT: actually thinking more about this idea, I suppose it wouldn’t be difficult at all to line up the aft hole, if I order it with the front hole predrilled. All I’d have to do is drill the aft hole in one block, then use the front hole to bolt the blocks together, and then match drill the aft hole. I think this would work! Woo-hoo!! I might have just saved a bunch of money!

[@rossrobinson7943]

My thought too.

[@halhirsch3606]

Glue a plate on the bottom of plate to raise the hole.

[@porterpilot01]

Can you use a larger bolt ?

[@russellsmith3825]

Exactly, clamp everything tight and step up from 1/4" to 5/16"

[@LTVoyager]

Machine a slot in the plastic block to elongate the hole. Since the force on it seems to be in one direction, once it place it likely won’t matter. I would not slot the metal, but the plastic is likely not an issue.

[@ginacalabrese3869]

I've heard another downside of powdercoating structural parts is you can't see stresses like cracks forming in the structural material whereas stresses to the material will crack the paint and allow you to see it before complete failure of the material. Also, for all the advertising you do for Zenith they should at least give you the replacement part at cost and maybe shout out the powdercoater for a discount.

[@KitplaneEnthusiast]

Hiding cracks is the common theory against powder coating. I’m not so sure how true that is. Vans aircraft has powder coated around 15,000 engine mounts! The problem I see with people powder coating airframe parts is that if you need to drill out a few rivets for a repair, you will totally mess up and crack the powder coated finish. Whereas if the structure was painted, the rivets could be drilled out and then touched up with paint. To each their own though....I wouldn’t powder coat airframe parts.

[@krperry2007]

@@KitplaneEnthusiast Does powder coat not bond tightly to the metal?

[@gvrose1]

You could put two gussets on either side and then re-drill the holes. You could even paint the gussets that cool interior green color and it would look very sharp! Strong and sexy!

[@bobpenzien7962]

Can you get a new nose gear block instead with holes to match the holes in your powder coated flanges? This means that all you need to do is to install a slightly modified nose gear block. Is this idea possible?

[@KitplaneEnthusiast]

Yes-see my other replies.

[@JoesRCCorner]

Great video Mark, I think I see your special project in the back ground at the end… I know what it is based on that glimpse, but I will not say anything do that others can be surprised.

[@KitplaneEnthusiast]

Hmm, maybe too much of an Easter egg? LOL

[@SpyGeorgilis]

Sorry if this is a dumb question: can you order a new one of those black blocks, without that hole bored all the way through it? EDIT: Never mind, I now read the rest of the comments. Mea Culpa. Keep up the good work! The only people who don't make mistakes are those who never do anything.

[@Laserdoc905]

I really wish Zenith provided better instructions. Love the kit but the instruction manual are lacking. Sucks to redo but its the right call. Thanks again for the videos.

[@danielbasovitch5087]

Mark, Instead of replacing ALL of the aluminum structure , Why not get an additional bottom plate and have a machine shop MIll down the top surface to meet the hole location and allow the Block to sit lower. Much cheaper to buy one plate and Mill the needed space!

[@KitplaneEnthusiast]

That's sort of what I'm going to do. I don't need to have any machining done, I just need to shim the plates on the bottom of the fuselage!

[@16480287]

How about replacing the block ? seems a better choice !

[@KitplaneEnthusiast]

See my other replies!

[@davidrobins4025]

Would a size or two up on the bolt solve the problem? I'm asking - not telling.

[@Know-Way]

Just get a local machinist to make you a custom bolt that's offset in the middle. ;) Your production quality is excellent! Thanks.

[@wallymurray620]

If I was trying to build the “perfect” airplane that’s say going to be judged at air shows and such and had the money, then yea, replace it all. But, and again this is just if it was me, I might clean some of the powered coat off, take to a good welder and have him fill the hole, redrill and then just paint that spot. Maybe even paint it a different colour so you not trying to hide it but to have a little reminder and a story. Let’s face it, where the spot is will not be seen by 99.9 % of the people who will see your plane even when the cowl is off. You’ve already admitted the error and I would think would be an acceptable repair from a engineering stand point( keeping in mind I’m not an engineer). But kudos to you for showing us this and either way, that is going to be one beautiful plane, thanks for the video.

[@KitplaneEnthusiast]

I agree 100% with you! Everyone has a different level of perfection and what they accept as “good enough”. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with your idea to weld it closed and redrill it. But I have a weird personality and it would just bug me. I’d rather just spend the money and replace parts. I can always work more if I need more money LOL!!

[@stephenaupperle2252]

@@KitplaneEnthusiast How about a shim or spacer.

[@medic1138]

@@KitplaneEnthusiast what if you clamped the block in place and used a drill bit big enough to cover both holes. fill it with a larger diameter bolt. no painting or new parts needed.

[@johngood3163]

Heartbreaking. The engine mount and cowling are pretty cool, though. Would it be easier to just replace the block?

[@KitplaneEnthusiast]

John-check out Ep48 tomorrow morning at 10:00am to see how I fixed it!

[@dann9686]

Could you add a shim?

[@mikeepeck]

Would it have been possible to just mill a little off the bottom of the block to make the hole line back up or would that have caused another alignment issue with something else.

[@theworshiptraveler6709]

Hey Mark , can’t you just use a thin shim to get the holes lined up. Oh say 1/64 of an inch aluminum shim riveted in? Just a thought.

[@KitplaneEnthusiast]

Yes this is exactly what I did!

[@TheFlyingSPR]

Thanks a lot sir for the Tip

[@zenvairpilot]

why can't you just drill another block instead of rebuilding the parts? or go to another bolt size? or shims?

[@KitplaneEnthusiast]

Hey Larry-you can read some of my other replies to comments-that's basically what I'm going to do. I'll put a shim under the double plates on the bottom. Are you building another 650 now?

[@zenvairpilot]

@@KitplaneEnthusiast its another 601 HDS. I'm building this one for my dad. best project ever. he pays i build.

[@KitplaneEnthusiast]

@@zenvairpilot That’s awesome. You should do another project like that-you pay and I build!!

[@bigmuz_pilot]

Bigger bolt?

[@craigtrout380]

Is it possible to remove enough material from the bottom of the block to align the hole?

[@KitplaneEnthusiast]

I'd say without a milling machine...no. I have to remove about 1/32" from each side of the blocks so that they fit into the U shaped aluminum and I'm having a heck of time doing that! I used a disk sander, but the disk sander starts to melt the nylon instead of just sanding it. I've got it close not and I'm hoping a sanding block will finish it. I'd have to shave off about 3/32" of the bottom and that would be nearly impossible!

[@craigtrout380]

@@KitplaneEnthusiast I've used an end mill w/ my drill press and a cross slide vise. But the easiest solution is to shim it as suggested by others.

[@brianthomas1999]

Can your powder coat supplier burn off the existing coat and re-apply. Not an expert in powder coating, but my employer does do this with steel.

[@creekboy2893]

Can you unbolt the brace, measure the travel up it makes when you tighten it and mill that much off the bottom of the black block?

[@bigmanue2291]

On the miss aligned holes couldn’t you drill out the miss aligned holes with a larger hole to align with a larger bolt. Great videos 👍

[@KitplaneEnthusiast]

Maybe. I'm not sure a larger bolt would exactly match a the larger hole in the metal. You can read through the comments as there are some other suggestions that might be a better fix than replacing the parts.

[@alejandronovoa8188]

Why dont you add an aluminium doubler down there to raise the plastic a lottle ?

[@alejandronovoa8188]

Sorry a little

[@markharro8900]

Drill out member with larger hole then add small top hat bushing?

[@chrislarkins]

Can't you use a thicker bolt and drill out to the correct size?

[@MarkN-ji9iv]

Can’t you redrill the hole larger and upsize the bolt?

[@rileysmith8980]

Did I hear correctly, 0-320? What was the gear outcome? Did they send new gear?

[@afcivileng]

or drill out both holes and put in a larger bolt?

[@mhilderbrand7693]

Unbolt the bracket and place the horizontal bolt back in place, then place the vertical bolts for the bracket back on. Didn’t see how far exactly the hole is off, but... I know there will still be stress somewhere 🤔

[@KitplaneEnthusiast]

No! All you’re doing there force fitting parts. Not good.

[@tametigere6375]

shim the block?

[@hotironaircraftshop]

Why can't you hire a TIG welder to properly fill in the hole and then re-drill it? Maybe you could insert a kevlar or other light weight shim to align it the same way it was when it was held together with the cleko fasteners?

[@leeadams5941]

You most likely have it fixed already but I think I would sleeve it

[@shelliebarnes1959]

I would have gone to bigger AN bolt with strong doublers rivited on both sides

[@flyingkub]

As the block was too low so your holes in the side structure are too low, by half diameter, if you can get an undrilled block you could match it to the stucture and the hole in the block would be slightly lower, which I think would be within the strength limits as it only takes the preload from the pucks. Much cheaper and faster repair and shuld be fast to dispatch. I was supprised that they had you pick up holes n the block to start with. it seams backwards to me.

[@birginaljordan6904]

Please, just drill the hole. It's thin enough metal to where it will self-align during the reaming process. Unless the hole is truly eight-balled.

[@thecode3fc]

Finally… someone more pathetically perfectionist than me. Definitely has more money. Lol Love this!

[@svbeautimous4576]

Can you order the plastic block without the cross hole in it?

[@KitplaneEnthusiast]

I'm sure I could. Actually after reading through the comments this is what I was going to do. But I think an easier solution now is just put a shim under the aluminum plates that attach to the bottom of the fuselage.

[@azzamaddas4437]

Why don't you replace the black block itself or the while in it is a reference control one?

[@RVN782P]

Thus is an example of amputation to cure a hangnail. Overkill.

[@danielbasovitch5087]

The small amount of difference in location of the block, couldn't have a significant impact on the finished strut assy.

[@keen1994]

Bigger hole and bigger bolt???

[@tinolino58]

Perfectionism is a disease 😱

[@afcivileng]

Can't you just sand the bottom of the plastic grommet to make it fit?

[@gmcjetpilot]

This is your 3rd plane? Why not replace that little black fitting? Get one two hole.

[@barnesandrewj]

You cant use tiny bigger hole through bot, with bigger nut and bolt?!?

[@Sman798]

Looks like a pits special back there....

[@andrewrupert3107]

Between the red and the last bit in the next video that is what I am thinking too.

[@darylh8657]

Instead of trying to raise the bridge, or lower the river, why not drill a new hole further down in the meat of the block?

[@mmichaeldonavon]

Why not drill it out again - at a larger bolt diameter? Or, do some of the corrections that the commenters said,.

[@user-tl5fi9lz9z]

At least you didn’t rivet it to the firewall yet.

[@johnfisk4666]

Looks Like a PITS in the back!

[@KitplaneEnthusiast]

A Pitts? Nope-I see no Pitts. You’re crazy!

[@terencereinig6703]

Why don't you just replace the plastic part? Even if you have to drill a second set of holes and pin it twice

[@LTVoyager]

Only three types of mistakes? Some of us are much more creative than that! 😂

[@KitplaneEnthusiast]

Ok I have 528 more types of mistakes but I had to narrow it down....LOL!

[@mikemorgan8792]

Wh not just replace the block?

[@aciagriculturalconstructio2264]

Why don't you just sand down the bottom of the plastic block?

[@scottmatthews5280]

Shim the block or get a machine shop to drill a new hole 1/2 lower in the black block. Just my 2 cents worth cheers

[@wilyung1706]

can't you shim it?

[@arnesonindustries3160]

Simple solution. Loosen the four nuts/bolts that caused the hole to rise. Install the block and secure it then merely retighten the four bolts/nuts and your good to go.

[@paulslevinsky580]

Use a shim. I know...it'll eat into your useable load and cause all kinds of weight and balance issues, STC's, special placards and warnings, zero resale value, and on and on and on. On the bright side you'll get to soar with other fearless aviator legends like Chuck Yeager, Neil Armstrong, Howard Hughes and The ORVILLE.

[@jwelman1]

WWTAD... What would The Army do to fix that problem... If you are gonna fix it, just make a sticker to cover it up. Like on you Blue Angels Zenith cowl paint mishap🤣

[@Senegal01]

There is a 4th thing in building; I call it "Shit Happens" event.

[@KitplaneEnthusiast]

LOL I like that!

[@tametigere6375]

oh, someone said that, hahaha

[@righthandy6526]

why not just buy the block and redrill it--would save a lot of work and expense

[@KitplaneEnthusiast]

The blocks come predrilled. But I think I can just order new blocks without the aft hole drilled (see my reply to one of the other comments)

[@davejoynt6276]

I just stopped watching a Mike Patey video to come watch yours. Lol

[@KitplaneEnthusiast]

Wow that’s a HUGE compliment! Thank you!!

[@anthoinealbert7966]

First like

[@kennethsmolana9865]

Reading your replies to multiple suggestions it sounds like you are on track to a simpler less costly solution. In the aircraft modification and overhaul industry, what we would do is install a freeze plug in the bad hole and re-drill. Relatively quick and easy provided you have the capability.