The Collapse of the Sun Realm: Eclipse is the Advent of Gloam. The Fled God Was Her All Along...

[@Science-is-everything-]

I need your help. Can you try to connect some of your theories with mesopotamian mythology? Elden ring lore is clearly based on mesopotamia. The people of Mesopotamia were astronomers who looked at the night sky for signs of “cycles” and the sun was divine. For them, an eclipse represented an “omen” which is a motif in elden ring. One of the statues in the eternal city of elden ring is holding a perfect copy of a real world map of babylon (the oldest world-map of the world) and babylon is located in mesopotamia. Also, mesopotamia was defined as a land between two rivers, just like in elden ring the underground ancient cities are all in between two rivers (the siofra and ainsel rivers) which are clearly inspired in the euphrates and tigris rivers that surround mesopotamia. The hornsent are probably inspired by the greeks, and there is a real world statue of moses where he has horns, and those horns were suppose to be “divine” which fits the ideology of the hornsent in elden ring. I also think that the rise of marika was inspired by the rise of christianity, which is pretty obvious when you consider the similarities between statues of marika and the statues of jesus christ. Sun realm = mesopotamia, hornsent = greeks, golden order = christianity Since this comment got pinned, I will add some more context. First, there is something I forgot to mention related to mesopotamia. Most people have heard of the story about the arc of noah, where he puts animals in a giant boat and saves himself in the apocalypse thanks to the advice of god. A lot of people don’t know that this tale is actually inspired by the mesopotamian tale called the “epic of gilgamesh” where the events are pretty much the same as the arc of noah. The reason why I bring this up is because in the dlc, there is a place (where st trina is found) filled with giants boats that look ancients, and near the cliff (where you have to jump from to begin the boss fight) there are a group of EVERY non-hostile animal from elden ring, they are just laying there with the giant boats, I think that this is a direct reference to the tale of gilgamesh where he saved one animal for every species in a giant boat. There is clearly something we are missing here and its definetely related to mesopotamia. Another thing that I think a lot of people are missing, is that there seems to be theme in elden ring that connects "water" with "death", if a great flood once ocurred in elden ring then it would make sense that the world of elden ring relates those two. The map of elden ring is filled boats in the seas, which could be a depiction of how people first arrived from the giants boats during the great flood, the mariners who represent those who live in death are always found in a pond of water riding a boat, the prince of death giant body grave seems to have a bunch of aquatic animals features, which makes sense if "water" is related to 'death" and lastly, the mesopotamians needed water for agriculture, and thus water represented "life" (which is similar to how marika's tree represents life) but at the same time they feared floods (flooding of water), because it would destroy their crops, I think that this could be interpreted as the duality of water representing both "life" and "death" which would explain the water connection with "those who live in death" and it would also explain why godwin's body is developing aquatic features since he is neither death or alive, but somewhere in between, I still have countless more connections that I would like to share, but for now, I hope somebody was able to develop a theory from this extra context.

[@OccamsOnion]

Wow, thanks for sharing this. I am pinning this as it provides some really helpful context to the video and Elden Ring's world. I am afriad I know little about mesopotamian mythology but what immediately come to mind is the eclipse representing an "Omen" you mentioned. I didnt include Omen (the Omen in the game) in the video as I am still in process of working that part out, but I did dig out enough to connect for you this: The "death flare" of the Eclipse Shotel would flare up the weapon with a black and yellow flame and create an explosion of said flame. The same color of the death lightnting cast by the Lich Dragon Fortissax or the color of the death mist of the wormface or Fia's Mist. Dung Eater's Omen Armor has a Sun Medalion whose description reads "The heavy, sun-shaped medallion represents both the guidance he once saw, and the ring to which it will one day lead." And the Omen ogres also has attacks that spews out that black and yellow flame of the Eclipse Shotel. This is the only thing I can provide at the moment as the I am still cooking the theory. I will most likely addressing this in my next few vids. But the Omen and the giants definitely has something to do with the sun.

[@sprooss7073]

@@OccamsOnion It sounds like you may not have watched Tarnished Archaeologist's videos, I would highly recommend if this interests you!

[@natebookout811]

@@sprooss7073 I concur, Tarnished Archeologist has a good video about the "flood" event in Elden Ring, backing up what the original commenter said. Personally, I like the idea of Elden Ring as sort of a parable of our own natural history, here on Earth. From what he's suggested in this video, I think it's possible there are multiple "apocalyptic events." Think something like: first the dinosaurs ruled, then they were destroyed by a meteor; next came the ancient world, then they were destroyed by a flood; and only then came what we finally know as "history". The dragons are the dinosaurs, the Hornsent are Mesopotamian/Babylonian, and the Erdtree is the rest of recorded history.

[@BleatzRetro420]

That map IS the treasure don't you see i never knoticed that and I hope it's still there and hasn't been patched out

[@themourningwolf8926]

​@OccamsOnion the grandam specifically mentions the omen being a curse apon marika and her lineage so maybe it is to fortel another eclipse, but this time instead of a literal physical eclipse it was the eclipse of ranni the dark moon over her own sun, godwyn, thus ending marikas reign, just like she did to the Era before. Sort of brings things full circle even if it does feel a bit flimsy Originally came here to also say tarnished archirect absolutely theorizes a great flood and honestly the moon crashing to earth would make a lot of sense as a kinetic event to make the world turn to magma 😅

[@ZeroPhoenixTheLastBladeTheory]

My parents decided it would be fun to play a drinking game, taking a shot each time you said "indeed". They died of alcohol poisoning. They're dead. You orphaned me. You did this.

[@OccamsOnion]

I have been waiting for the drinking game comment. YOU SIR WON THE PRIZE! Please find your special reward below. Indeed.

[@usedcolouringbook8798]

You're one step closer to becoming Batman.

[@tropezando]

​@@usedcolouringbook8798MARTHAAAAAA

[@sirrealism7300]

OMG THE WORMFACE ARE LIKE THE ORACLE ENVOYS BUT FOR THE DEATH GOD... And that means the aged untouchables are the envoys for the frenzied flame!

[@thekaelixchamber]

bug things, envoys of the rot.

[@Alter_Ego_V1.1037]

And they're wilting sunflowers no less, one in the Altus Plateau can be found admiring one of Miquella's lilies, maybe with a hint of jealousy as it still retains its golden hue.

[@shahriar4706_]

​@@thekaelixchamber kindred of rot?

[@_bstr_ct1832]

And the claymen are the long forgotten oracles of night

[@captainxit5573]

Yeeeeesssssssss

[@madeline6951]

35:00 I believe the mechanism that tarnishes and strips things of luster is time. We see his description on almost all gauntlets of knights' sets: "Time has yet to dull their luster." It's possible that the Dragonlord stopped the "tarnishment" by literally stopping time in Farum Azula.

[@madeline6951]

lol that's almost exactly what you say later

[@OccamsOnion]

I am glad someone brought up the "tarnishment" in the comment. Since the video has been too long in the making, I have had some new thoughts on the mechanism as well. I also think there is more going on behind "drained of color/luster" than its literal meaning. Your interpretation of the gauntlets and time is very intriguing. I will see what I can cook up and hopefully share in the next vid! Much thanks!

[@K8theKind]

Indeed.

[@OccamsOnion]

Indeed..

[@EmperorMist]

Indeed.

[@OccamsOnion]

@EmperorMist Indeed.

[@K8theKind]

@@EmperorMist Indeed.

[@metalfoxhound]

​@@K8theKindIndeed.

[@stampede274]

I think the worm faces might have a connection to the potentates and their caterpillar masks

[@captainxit5573]

Interesting.🤔 Thank You For That. Something To Think On.

[@timelineenjoyer]

i mean if any people wouldve been cursed by marika across multiple realms it would be those guys

[@arnebobflutschkopf3439]

Wtf, now that you said it, it seems obvious

[@beansnrice321]

One thing that the caterpillar masks have me wondering, are those the caterpillars that all of the butterflies in game are coming from, cause there are a heck of a lot of butterflies but no caterpillars until now.

[@phantasm9114]

@@arnebobflutschkopf3439I agree, they looked familiar but I didn’t know why

[@jmbec62]

You can see the eclipse on Seluvis's hat and the gems on the Godskin robes! I'm sold!

[@allthe1]

There's a lot goin on here, I absolutely love your attention to detail. A lot of focus on very much neglected item descriptions! Especially about the sun symbs, the banished knights, the beastmen and the scattered ruins. You make a lot of satisfying ties between those. You're great addition to the loretubes!

[@bell5082]

Indeed man this was so good, I didn't think of this!

[@OccamsOnion]

Glad it provided some insights and to hear you enjoyed it!

[@dudeman1983]

This had big implications on Metyr's Microcosm having the mesh name "Sun"

[@OccamsOnion]

Wow, I had no idea the mesh is named sun. But I did have this in mind, and hinted at 3:43, 52:04, 1:14:07 with editing. Of course not a complete theory at this point. So just trying to provoke some ideas with the clips I use. This is another reason I mentioned Metyr warrants a video of her own. Thanks for sharing and catching on to this!

[@briannenurse4640]

I had already been putting together some of the eclipse/sun realm/ancient dragon empire stuff in my mind but you've connected the dots in such an impressive way, and connected it to the greater story so neatly as well! Thank you for this!

[@opossumoutlaw7534]

Indeed!

[@OccamsOnion]

Indeed.

[@EmperorMist]

Indeed.

[@Glatix]

Indeed.

[@abelbabel8484]

Indeed.

[@K8theKind]

@@opossumoutlaw7534 Indeed.

[@alien5589]

I feel like this hits a point in the lands between timeline that hasn’t been explored much yet. I can’t wait to finish the video and see where we end up!

[@kidoumaru4942]

25:04 OH MY GOD, you literally blew our minds now THE FINGERSLAYER BLADE IS PLACIDUSAX GOD'S, I had never thought of that, I always saw the fingerslayer blade as a dagger, but as the name says, it is a blade, and it is IDENTICAL to the sacred relic sword, but distorted, it is the same hilt, same handle, same blade twisted in two, the difference is that the fingerslayer blade is old, bent like a dagger and full of blood, but man, this sword could LITERALLY be the god of Placidusax who fled to land or was dragged away and killed by the people of Nokron, who like Marika herself when she dies turns into a sword, they used the soul of this god to make the sword, oh my god, you made the discovery that everyone wanted and the dlc failed to respond, you earn my subscribe, like and favorite, good job, and please make more of that content, i love the people who make this archeology job on fromsoftware's games

[@mistersaturn6074]

No offense but... lore enthusiasts have been mentioning this for 2 years already. It's nothing groundbreaking.

[@jamesio20]

this was a big cook. Loved the video!

[@baseddepartment6469]

Took me 2 weeks to get through this video, I loved every second

[@OccamsOnion]

Wow. Thank you for taking the time to come back and finish it! Cant help but feeling a bit honored haha

[@Kyoujin710]

12:23 when you are talking about the ruins scattered about, you are the first person who made me imagine the erdtree itself, crashing into Farum Azula as it was launched from wherever the greater will is. Which would honestly be wild as fuck to imagine that's why there's ruins all over the map like that

[@OccamsOnion]

I need to try rewatching my video with some weed.

[@Kyoujin710]

@@OccamsOnion 😎

[@max784020]

Idk how did you get there but thx for sharing, it is a great event to imagine INDEED.

[@jeremymullens7167]

Tarnished archaeologists has a video about a cataclysm involving flooding the world with lava. The nox built stone boats then contained the greater will in a tree as a first pass. Perhaps it’s the full plan for the lord of night and removing the outer gods. The figure on the boats spread the tree religion. Castle sol also has a smear downwards. Like the sun was draining. That would cause a flood of lava. It would also give that energy and vibrancy to the land and cause the crucible of life. Also need to realize, the Elden Ring story is slightly related to geologic history. With the crucible knights being named after geological time periods. Looking at the story of earth could give insight into the story of Elden Ring.

[@clearsparkle4385]

I must say, you really got me with the smithing stones

[@metalfoxhound]

This video was truly enlightening. Thank you.❤️🙏

[@Zoxan96]

This video has interesting speculation, but I don't think there's enough evidence that the GEQ was Placidusax's goddess (let's call it Dragon God for short), nor that she shattered her Elden Ring, nor that a second Elden Ring appeared. What I think makes sense in the timeline is, definitely, that the Dragon God had the Elden Ring, that said god was at some point brought to Marika, that Marika took the Elden Ring from the Dragon God to control it and reshape it. Nothing here would anger the Greater Will or the Elden Beast. They represent order, and all those steps described before still maintain order. True, the different orders might be different, but they all have the effect of maintaining control over the Lands Between. The Elden Beast intervened when Marika shattered the Elden Ring. Not reshaped, not manipulated. Shattered. An essential rejection of the concept of order and effectively a rebellion against the Greater Will. I think you're right about the eclipse of death, and how that was the end of the kingdom of the sun, but the fact that it was the Dragon God who orchestrated the whole thing seems contrived to me. Let's look at other possibilities. For example, we know that the GEQ possessed the power to kill gods in her flame, most likely because she imbued the flames with Destined Death. If that's the case, the eclipse of death would've been able to kill Dragon God. Makes sense that Dragon God would disappear or run away, in that situation. The GEQ could've been the empyrean from the eternal cities that orchestrated the eclipse. Another thing we know is that the Crucible existed before the Erdtree, and was worshipped by the Hornsent. So, there was at least a period between the kingdom of the sun and the Golden Order, where the Hornsent culture flourished. It's possible that Dragon God was part of that worship. After the eclipse of death, and the end of the kingdom of the sun, Dragon God finds refuge with the hornsent because the GEQ is still a danger, having followers even after the destruction of the eternal cities. That's where Marika comes in. defeating the GEQ and ingratiating herself with the Hornsent in doing so. This would be the "seduction" from the DLC trailer. After which, comes the betrayal. Marika kills the Dragon God, takes the Elden Ring foe herself, refashions it. None of this requires a second Elden Ring, or the shattering of the previous one. The Greater Will doesn't really care about power struggle for who holds control of the rules of the world, as long as THERE ARE rules. That's why nothing before Marika required the intervention of the Elden Beast. Well, one thing definitely required intervention, which was the destruction of the eternal cities. The eternal cities were a threat to order in the sense that they didn't want to exercise control, but wanted to completely uproot what was there before and set up their own thing, without the Greater Will. The Greater Will doesn't care who wins, as long as they play by the rules. But the Nox weren't playing by the rules. Of course, this isn't an airtight theory. The Dragon God being "rescued" by the Hornsent is contrived, and there's probably something else going on there, But we do know that the Hornsent worship the Crucible of Life, and that Marika took the Crucible and essentially turned it into the Erdtree. The added symbols to the Elden Ring of the dragons seeing in Maliketh's arena most likely represented the chaotic life forces of the Crucible (which Marika removed because she wanted to eliminate Hornsent culture). Maybe the sun of the Dragon God was giving light and energy to the Crucible? That would be an explanation for who the Hornsent could've helped the Dragon God. But there's still a lot that I need to understand about all of this. Hope the comment wasn't too long of a read. At least, this is what I got out of this discussion. What do you think?

[@phoza6901]

I agree that it's a bit contrived to say the GEQ shattered her own separate Elden Ring---there isn't enough to back that in my opinion. I like the idea you put forward that she was an empyrean from the Eternal cities that orchestrated the eclipse. To expand, I could see the Numen being the de-facto "divine" people, with the GEQ being a descendant of a Numen Dragon god and being affiliated with the Nox offshoot. I mean: Numen are "denizens of another world;" this wording seems to me as though the Greater Will itself chose these as its people. The GEQ, like Ranni, would be a Numen who reviled her divine flesh and wished to be rid of the identity that comes with it (very compelling theme of personal vs. familial identity here i.m.o). I do like the idea of the Dragon God being allied (or something to that effect) with the Hornsent, who worship the Crucible of life. There could be something there about a connection between the Dragon God symbolizing plentiful life and the Crucible's parallels with biological evolution--life for the sake of life, without Order. But anything beyond that would be too heavy on speculation to state anything convincingly. It does follow that Marika fits in nice here. Her betrayal is that she kills the Dragon God, who still a vessel for the Elden Ring, or Order. She then conjoins it with the Crucible (Life) to bring about the birth of the Erdtree: Life with Order. Death is absent, being bound to Maliketh after he defeated the GEQ (the "seduction"). I will admit that this is a compelling picture of what went down that day in Enir-Ilim, at least for me. There is more to be said. Namely, how do Marika's two fingers fit into all of this? What about Metyr? Would the Greater Will really have Marika kill off the Dragon God, who was divinely sanctioned? (this is some pretty serious biblical imagery following Saul and David, so take that as you will). Further, what are we to do with all the serpent imagery present? Is Eiglay tied with the GEQ and her apostles? Why is Marika wearing serpent armbands during her betrayal in the trailer? What follows is tangentially related, but it's my personal theory that the Greater Will isn't sentient. The Greater Will is Order; I understand it more as a divine set of laws of physics. That's why it doesn't "care" what kind of order is established. That's why Metyr is "abandoned." 5 fingers are a gift of intelligence (see the Cinquadea description), a gift of Sapience. If the Greater will is Order, then Metyr is the sentience born of Order. Her microcosm is empty and unresponsive because there is no sentient being there to talk to her. The Nox "invoked" the ire of the Greater Will the same way that the (irl) prehistoric peoples invoked the "ire" of a great flood or storm. They were banished simply because that's the divine rules. Marika was imprisoned for the Shattering because that's simply the divine Order of things. Her other half, Radagon, embodies the ideology of Order and likely became a part of Marika when she established the Erdtree. Certainly the rules may be edited--that's what we do to the Elden Ring in our endings, and that's what happened to the Elden Ring in between the age of Sol and the age of Gold. There are probably dozens of holes you could poke in this, but it's interesting to theorize. I think your comment and OP's video are excellent sources of thought.

[@johnkramer2144]

I love your content. The only problem is that you only have two videos. Good stuff!

[@OccamsOnion]

I think I know the solution to this problem. Will work on it!

[@abimaelmontesguardiola2774]

Cool video! I do agree that the GOQ/the godskins are an exceedingly ancient part of the lands between, tho I believe that both Nox and Rauh are descendanrs of the Numen that represented polar aspects of their culture, namely light and dark. I believe they used to directly contact the Greater Will through the use of a third, shamanic branch of Numen who were capable of contacting and manipulating spirits. They attempted apotheosis by creating the elden ring, at the cost og greatly reducing all Numen races and brought about the rise of elden lords. I still have to work out the details, but this is what makes the most sense to me as far as lands between pre history goes

[@Sheepmaniak]

Indeed ! You truly nailed it

[@commanderyew2312]

Great Vid, in other words... Indeed

[@OccamsOnion]

Indeed. Glad you liked it!

[@tropezando]

Excellent use of the text to back up your work. I've seen a lot of "this is reminscent of this real world myth" type lore posts, and my own lore speculation heavily relies on relating the game's plot and themes to parallels in biology, astrophysics, and psychology. That's great, but it's more like recreating the ER mood board/design doc than unraveling the story. I really appreciate anyone who can weave together the in-game descriptions, assets, and gameplay to make a narrative without using extratextual sources to glue the disparate parts together. This is the most cohesive ACTUAL lore video I've ever seen on Elden Ring, maybe any work of fiction. YIPPEE 10/10 no notes 🥇 ⭐ 🏆 🐐

[@OccamsOnion]

Thank you for such high praise!I have been reading and watching a lot of materials on real world geology, astrophysics and astronomy as well and have notice the crazy amount of inspirations Fromsoft has taken from these subjects to build the world... But since Elden Ring is a high fantasy world and the law of physics etc. can be highly exaggerated or altered, imo the relevant inspirations still need to be examined with clues from the game and fit the overall context. Like how "the final moments of a great star cluster" mentioned by Stars of Ruins is very high fantasy but would be difficult to reconcilie with current astrophysics as the death of a cluster in real world seems to be a very gradual event on cosmic timescale. But I think I have identified the key inspiration behind the crucible of the hornsents which may not be new for the community, but am trying to unravel the details by matching as much clues and context as possible to see how its applied in elden ring and if it could solve other mysteries as well. Glad you and enjoyed it and hope you can stay tuned for the next!

[@Yrthwrym]

90 minutes of solidly entertaining, interesting, and throughly evidenced elden-lore. Liked and subscribed, thank you.

[@OccamsOnion]

Much thanks for the sub and glad you found it entertaining! A lot of effort was puting into the script and editing. Happy to hear this!

[@beansnrice321]

Amazing video and amazing work collecting it all! I have been having similar thoughts ever since the recent eclipse in America's midwest. An eclipse implies the influence of a moon. To add to the apocalypses you've already mentioned, I also feel that the Shattered stone talisman and Relanna's twin moon spell imply that one or more moons once struck the lands between, possibly from failed (or successful) eclipse ascension events. Also, The "stars," made out of stone crowns implies that maybe one or more of the moons might have been made from a sacrifice of a very large number of astrologer/scholars. I forget who it was, Scum mage Infa or maybe Zayf the scholar but someone was going on about a theory of, "cruible technology." Where large numbers of people are sacrificed for one reason or another. According to them there have countless crucible events, including but not limited to all of the nox buildings with frozen people reaching out of them. Possibly an event like that created a moon for an eclipse. Maybe that is how all moons were made for every eclipse. I can think of at least 3 moons, the dark moon, the full moon and the black moon of nokstella.

[@sweetpotatodato6068]

Excellent video! I’m so glad someone else also came up with the idea that the Sun was the original source of light in the Lands Between.

[@mirrormonkey2]

Absolutely incredible video! Opens up a whole new dimension of speculation regarding the sun, the eclipse and the gloam eyed queen. Very strong theories.

[@donotreadthis26]

Could the shattering of the black moon have cause a widespread meteor shower over an extended time period that caused the flood of molten rock that tarnished archeologist spoke about recently? The flood that the stone coffin arks of the ancient dynasty, now resting on the cerulean coast, were built to survive. A flood that banished the eternal cities (and the ancient dynasty) underground by litterally covering them with molten rock.

[@donotreadthis26]

Oh and then, of course, the age thst followed the eclipse and subsequent shattering of the black moon and the flood it's falling pieces caused came an age devoid if order. The age of the crucible. Ruled by the gloam eyed queen and the god devouring serpent in enir ilim. Because, what do you think the did with the flesh of the gods they skinned? Marika usurped the age by killing the serpent and ascending to godhood by creating a new golden rune from her body and the rune arcs from the serpents body and form a new elden ring within herself at the gate of divinity where she was presumably supposed to be sacrificed like so many before.

[@OccamsOnion]

Very interesting the he has the same idea! When Elden Ring launched I forced myself to stop watching lore videos as i really want to have my own interpretation without the influence of others. A painful sacrifice and decision to me personally and the reason why the theory crafting and essay writing of this video took me over a month. But yes I mentioned the meteorites of different Astel and the shattered or tumbling moon must have drastically altered the landscape of the Lands Between. What came to this conclusion for me is the resulting meteorites shower that must have resulted in immense level of heat to the surface due to the prolonged and repeating impacts of meteorites.

[@Acaran]

This is exactly what came to mind. I don't think the Tarnished Archeologist is right about everything, but he established some things really well and the way they described the "flood" is reaally great, and it fits perfectly with this theory and gives us so much new information about the timeline.

[@joshuasilva8057]

In a time long forgotten, 4 lords found the lords souls within the fire. After countless ages the fire finally fades, left not but smoldering embers upon the mountain now known as the flame of ruin.

[@joshuasilva8057]

I will also add that seeing as the flame of dark souls led the world down a broken ruined path its pretty spot on. Also Marika reminds me of the last firekeeper in 3.

[@EmmettFlo7]

Love this! I had almost given up on the lore of this game but you've rekindled my hope!

[@shallotliltian7617]

The most dangerous drinking game: Take a shot every time you hear the word "indeed."

[@Eizengoldt]

This video has been most illuminating, thank you sharing such high quality content with us

[@Komega01]

the descendants of the nox are the nightfolk the numen were the people of the sun and after the cataclysm became the shaman

[@TheGuestRoomCult]

Gold and shadow, separate tangents of the same root.

[@ravendelacour1917]

From Darkness, Light. From Light, Darkness.

[@lycoris8425]

Nice catch on the smithing Stone detail! It didn’t even cross my mind that “drained of color” is actually a really odd description for something devoid of color until you pointed it out. Also something tangentially related: the artbook(or concept art version) of the Elden ring at farum azula depicts the upmost half circle as a extremely bright orb, further reinforcing your belief that the sun is connected to placidusax’s rule

[@OccamsOnion]

And the central spiral of the Elden Ring too. There are so many parellels between Farum Azula and Enir Illim that I cant wait to share with you all! I havent seen a comment pointing it out yet but under this theory, the Sun being an Erdtree equivalent of the last cycle, opens up a whole new avenue for what "the primodial form of the Erdtree, the crucible" is. Hope you can stay tune for my next video!

[@jamesio20]

I am recommending this video to anyone I can who is into Elden Ring lore. I truly believe you have put together the most accurate timeline of anyone so far and is most likely the closest to what GRR Martins original writing for the game included. I would give a finger to get my hands on his writing content for this game 😅

[@cwill14]

This is an old write-up now, with some recent updates from the DLC. Marika is the Gloam/Dusk-Eyed Queen. - Red and black spike of death impales Marika and keeps her in place when we find her at the end. Only Maliketh wields this power, and only he could even defeat a God like Marika. But he's so loyal to her, why would he? - Maliketh "defeated" the Gloam/Dusk-Eyed Queen. We know Shadowbound hounds have to attack their former master if The Fingers feel like the Empyrean is acting against them. We play through this reality with Ranni's quest, and both she and Iji know Blaidd will go mad as she enacts her vision. How do they know this happens? They saw/heard of it happening to Maliketh and Marika already. - Only Marika would be able to guide Ranni to the location of the Rune of Death and how to use it for it to be stolen in the first place to forge the Black Knives. Remember, "Marika... is this what it is to sin?" "Why gull me..." Marika, after all, had only one use for Maliketh in the end, after the other work was done... a vessel to seal away Destined Death. And even then, she betrayed him. - The Beast Eye is a purple, scratched up eye. It's Marika's eye from being defeated and imprisoned by her Shadowbound. No other Queen or Empyrean is "defeated" but not slain, as the text implies there except Marika. And who but her purpose-made hound could even stop her, a God? The one entity empowered enough by the Ring/Fingers to be able to do so should the need arise. - Dominula Village is much like the Hinterlands and the Shaman Village. We find a skinning ritual and a Godskin Apostle there in Dominula. We learn that the "festival" is old and tacitly accepted by the Golden Order. The aesthetic of these villages is much the same, and they're intimately tied to Marika herself. - Gideon gives us a boon in the form of a secret rite known only to him, Black Flame Protection. He is alleged to have peered into the will of Queen Marika, and shuddered at the end that should not be. - The Scadutree is of a dual nature. So is Queen Marika. When Gold arose, so too was Shadow born. Gold and Shadow exist as necessary contrasts to each other, yet in a God, in Marika, this duality exists in coalesce, or it did once. - No other characters are named as Queen or Empyrean that aren't already accounted for/ruled out to be the GEQ, and by that I mean Melina, she was given purpose by her mother at the foot of the Erdtree and that means she is a daughter of Marika, not old enough to be the GEQ but possesses traits of both Marika and Radagon. Eye color and hair color are passed down traits we see in game. Well, sure enough, Melina shows us a purple/gloamy eye in one ending. Inherited trait from her mother, the Queen in Black. Marika's eyes are never shown to us, to judge their color. - Duskborn ending sees Godwyn rise to ascendancy and sees Death restored, with him as the Prince of Death itself. These titles aren't meaningless. Duskborn? The "Prince" of Death? Well, who would the Queen be? If Godwyn is Duskborn, and if he is a Prince, his mother would, of course, be associated with "Dusk" and be a Queen. And we know his mother is Queen Marika. - Fia is hooded with a black cloak and comes from some other land. She also helps create Godwyn's Duskborn ending and is Death-aligned. We see Marika wearing black hooded garb in a statue where she also is holding the twins Miquella and Malenia. Her tattered clothing as we find her at the end is also black. She is also associated with the Nox/Numen race and the Black Knife Assassins that come from there as well. - Statues of Marika in her crucified pose all show her with a flowing black cloth that wraps behind her in almost the exact same shape as the Godslayer Greatsword, which was the weapon or ritual sword of the GEQ/DEQ. You have to pivot the camera a bit to get a good view, but the shape is very similar. Coiled and then open, with one flap slightly longer than the other, same tip design on the Godslayer Greatsword. It's possible that she was propped up by the Hornsent culture and then part of the betrayal was killing other Gods in their pantheon, but what's maybe more possible is as Centered Tarnished pointed out, that Marika culled some other of her "unwanted" children after learning the truth of the broken Fingers and flawed foundations of her Order. - Godwyn is referred to as the "Prince of Gold" in an item description. If a Prince of Death could have been a Prince of Gold, why couldn't his mother hold this potential as well, even necessarily so? We see from the Death Knights that Gold and Death can somehow synergize even still... Gold and Shadow, born at the same time, same as it ever was. - Hewg prays to Queen Marika about his given task to craft a Godslaying weapon. Very interesting and specific task. Marika wants a God slain. He mentions "the sheer terror of Her..." regarding Marika. Godskins certainly take an interest in killing a God. Who was their leader? A "defeated" Queen who was once an Empyrean. Marika. - Raging Wolf Vargram is a would-be Shadow. Wolf imagery is on his armor. He wields the Godslayer Greatsword. The weapon art is "The Queen's Black Flame", of course. A statue of Marika exists in Farum Azula showing her with three wolves. - Marika learned the secrets of the Golden Order and realized her children would "amount only to sacrifices" as she instructed them. She knew the Erdtree was a soul parasite, and by sealing Death away, she weakened the Erdtree over time. She also had Godwyn buried at the roots of it, knowing that he would grow and overtake them, choking the Erdtree further. As he was, Godwyn was an "unwanted" child since he embodied the Golden Order, and she was a prisoner to it. He would end up much like Miquella would, a caged divinity of some kind. She was likely opposed to the Erdtree and Greater Will/Fingers for a long time, weaving plots in secret until the Shattering. She realized, only too late, that ultimate power has a way of becoming a curse when the truth of the nature of it all is finally revealed. Just as Marika shined so brightly with her Golden Order, another aspect of her was as deep as the abyss and as dark as any shadow.

[@ALaz502]

You cooking out here in the comments bro.

[@Yes34sumo]

@@ALaz502 He's not. It's from a reddit post and everyone is posting it like the gospel now. Personally, I think a lot of these could be explained by the nascent theory that "Marika and the GEQ were twins like Morgott and Mohg and possibly stole Messmer and Melina from the GEQ". Like, if we didn't have the Lord of Blood boss fight we could easily assume that Mohg was actually just a piece of Morgott like Margit. In a similar vein, the GEQ might appear to be Marika because we don't see her at all.

[@ghotiphoti]

@@Yes34sumo There's some very interesting correlations that could reinforce this theory, but it also makes some baseless assumptions in my opinion. Black robes on a statue? How can you tell? What points to Godwyn being her unwanted child? (edit: the ghost outside of the Church of Pilgrimage does) Namely, Melina's older brother Messmer is a very fascinating link. > He wields a shadowy, soul-burning fire that is explicitly an aspect of his being, traits quite comparable to the Godslaying Black Flame. > We never get to see his real eyes as his right eye is plucked out and the left one never opens (like Melina's, curiously), but the Gloam-eyed Queen *does* have a heavy connection to serpents. Messmer has a symbiotic relationship with the Abyssal Serpent, or maybe he just is it. > If Marika is/was the Gloam-eyed Queen, it would make sense that she would want to hide her former identity by scorning snakes. Maybe Messmer was hidden away in the Realm of Shadow because of this close tie. What reason does she possibly have to be scared of the snake, that it would be the sole reason she sealed her own son away? some other reinforcing evidence I can think of off the top of my head > the trailer inexorably links Gold and Shadow, twin aspects that were birthed simultaneously > Destined Death is explicitly referred to as the "forbidden shadow" plucked from the Golden Order upon its creation > the God-Slaying power of the Black Flame was lost when Maliketh sealed away Destined Death. (Scouring Black Flame) > how did Gideon find a Black Flame incantation? "Perhaps the Queen's sorrow was justified?" > in the Temple of Eiglay, the snake is strung up in a manner similar to how Marika is depicted in her Lands Between statues. (shoutout to Scum Mage Infa in their "True Identity of the Gloam Eyed Queen" video for this observation) I also had a theory that the original sin was the plucking of Destined Death from the Golden Order upon its creation but that would be too recent of an event in the world's history for it to be original. Plus if that were the case, Miquella would have gone to Farum Azula himself. Ultimately I think it's certainly possible that Marika is the Gloam-Eyed Queen, but there isn't really enough evidence to say for sure

[@AMbradfordfilms]

People need to really think about how many examples of split body/split soul things are going on with demi gods and Empyreans. Hell even D, a Tarnished, has a split body. We see Melanias "daughters" who presumably were born from rot blooms, or their petals, Im not sure but the point is I think Melina is a purposeful shedding of Marikas GEQ persona. The crucible can blend and split life and spirit. The revelation should be that Marika divested parts of herself similar to Miquella, the GEQ being one of those parts.

[@AMbradfordfilms]

@@ghotiphoti There is a finger reader in the Nameless Eternal City (where Godwyns body is) that heavily implies he was an unwanted child. The walking Masoleums reinforce this. We do not see the color of her clothing in the statues, true, but we see her in black in promotional images and her baldachin in her bedchamber is the same black fabric we see all over The Land of Shadow thats draped over buildings; even draped over the Scadutree itself.

[@usedcolouringbook8798]

29:09 This has been added to my Godwyn the Malformed personal theory.

[@calyx_datura]

I’m very impressed and I hope this video gets picked up by the algorithm so more people can see it because this is the most satisfying timeline I’ve seen. I can’t think of any anomalous pieces of lore that have to be ignored for your sequence of events and conjectures to work. I think your biggest contribution to collective ER lore theory is the concept of two separate elden rings. You even provided a bullet proof reason for the elden beast to arrive at a point in time that was seemingly AFTER the Greater Will’s apparent establishment of its hegemony in the Lands Between and imposed its order on life and death. I’m looking forward to your future videos!

[@cwill14]

Props to you for this video. You're really cooking all through this. Great stuff, solid connections that most haven't seen.

[@pntbttrcrckr831]

This is such good lore content, cant wait for future uploads.

[@cg3518]

Loved the video! Seeing the link from the eclipse ritual with the previous cycle of gods, layered with the ruins above and below, was refreshing. Can't wait for the next one. You are doing a great and through job with Fromsoft's grandest game World history is a doozy, let alone one inspired by GRRM and Miyazaki.

[@tomhutchins7495]

Ties in really nicely to the deep lore of GRRM’s “Song of Ice and Fire” too, given the mythology and symbolism uncovered by David Lightbringer. This feels right for the worldbuilding.

[@THETYMEKK12]

Incredible...step by step this lore starts making sense :D

[@GrandStyles]

This was an excellent video, and I think you've established some of the most interesting revelations post-DLC i've seen so far. While I can't cosign everything, I think the biggest nails are the relation between the draining of color on the somberstones and flora of Farum Azula as a major correlation. I also love the theory of the Gloam Eyed Queen's flame being originally gold and the black flake is also simply drained of color. I've had similar theories about the GEQ and the Nox and I thought the Rock Heart would open some interesting doors which you successfully did!

[@mintkit1064]

What a wonderful video, I really enjoyed it!! Im very much looking forward to your next ones.

[@Dank_Engine]

I love the name of this channel

[@Caesium-137]

You absolutely cooked with this!

[@OccamsOnion]

Whenever I see "cooked" in the comment, I cant help but think of Siegward cooking the estus soup in DS3.

[@nbmoleminer5051]

Some really interesting takes some which I'm kicking myself for not having noticed myself so seriously well done great job 👏👏👏👏👏👍👍

[@OccamsOnion]

Thanks haha. Glad the takes clicked with you!

[@ghotiphoti]

2:20 this is a very interesting interpretation. I originally just took it to mean that with the eyes of a dragon they simply saw things far more vividly.

[@zamis769]

Doesn't seem an eclipse did anything to Farum Azula, as the reason for Farum Azula's collapsing state is in the Ruins Greatsword description: "Originally rubble from a ruin which fell from the sky, this surviving fragment was honed into a weapon. One of the legendary armaments. The ruin it came from crumbled when *struck by a meteorite*, as such this weapon harbors its destructive power." Faruma Azula or Rauh is that city of the Sun - Castle Sol is not a city. it's the highest altitude Fort in TLB (aside from the floating city FA) so has the clearest view of the sun - this makes it the most opportune place to invoke an eclipse. As for the meteorite that struck Farum Azula, it may have truly been a meteor or it could have been a "star", as many falling objects and creatures are called. Perhaps by meteor, the team means a Me-T-yr? Who knows. The eclipse was an attempt to complete Godwyn's death because the Hallowbrand looks like an Eclipse- it was likely theorized by Miquella that the unfinished half-seal on Godwyn's body would be made whole by the eclipse itself.

[@V1ktorVaughn]

Finally, an Elden Ring KZbinr who isnt trying to impersonate a spooky magical british guy. Thank Christ.

[@waltercook3843]

Amazing! This may be the most informative video I've seen on elden ring!

[@christianpena707]

Firstly, great video. I love the way you told this story it was captivating the whole way through and I'm pretty convinced on many of the theories presented here. The only thing that I'm a bit iffy on is the timeline of things. As an example, we know that the blackflame monks became traitors and abandoned their posts as guardians, and we know that the OG firemonks as a religious order in general were founded after the giants had been slain and the erdtree already established. This makes me wonder if perhaps the gloam eyed queen was related to Queen Marika in any way and possibly even active alongside her before they came into conflict? Maybe she was her mother or twin sister? Other lore theorists in the community have suggested that Marika may be THE abductor virgin who perhaps stole the children of the gloam eyed queen and used them to her own ends. Whatever the case, I had this thought while I was wandering the shadow keep earlier today. Who built it and why? Moreover, why is it from an artistic standpoint so dark and well uhh shadowyy.... The place is built like an absolute fortress and it sits in the relative center of the lands of shadow not far from the suppressing pillar and within it is this church district submerged in water? That area looks absolutely desecrated compared to the rest of the place which is fairly well kept by messmers soldiers. I believe that the shadow keep was the gloam eyed queens original seat of power in the lands between, and this video helped cement that idea for me. Firstly, it's just down the road from Metyr who likely sanctioned the gloam eyed queens ascension to power as an emperyan. Moreover, it's perfectly within proximity of actual living God's to slay via the hornsents tutelary deities or even the divine animal warriors and smithing "deity" golems. Furthermore, we even find a painting within the shadowkeep titled "domain of dragons," which the gloam eyed queen was likely the god of, and it's a depiction of the shadowkeep alongside the scadutree. We even find stormhawk feathers in the church district, what an odd thing to find in this place? Then finally after fighting another God damn ulcerated tree spirit we find an iris of occultation... What is an occultation? It's an event that occurs when one interstellar body ECLIPSES another. Giving this iris to Jolan the swordhand of night will grant you her sword but not her spirit. Could Marika have maybe used this device to manipulate the queen into lending her blade to her cause in slaying rival gods such as the fire giants? Would explain why they're all impaled by thorns if perhaps the gloam eyed queen was drawing from the power of the scadutree, and we do find the thorn spells in the shadowkeep yet again but this comment is already long and speculative enough as is.

[@giacobbosauro]

Great points! Congratulations for the masterpiece! Will watch closely your work, fellow Tarnished!

[@OccamsOnion]

Please as watch as closely as Gideon would.

[@devinguy]

I'll never forget my first playthrough: maybe already 60+ hours in, I look up at the sky in the middle of the day and ask "wait, where the hell is the SUN??" Almost 3 years later and we're still learning so much.

[@beansnrice321]

I also mentioned in your last video that there was a lot of Egyptian imagery in the game and this new video made me think of more. Horus was the reincarnation of Ra and the sun and moon were supposed to be his eyes. The sun was his good eye but Set had apparently ripped out his other eye. There are different stories about how his second eye was healed some say it was Isis, others say it was Hathor or Thoth but someone eventually healed/regrew his missing eye by pouring milk into the empty socket. This disappearing of the eye and the pouring of milk back into it were supposed to represent the cycles of the moon. I believe that the missing eye was at some point buried and watered and from it the first grapes grew. (makes me think of the frenzied flame and the discarding of the three fingers) So in one Egyptian myth we might have references to the greater will, an apocalypse or wounding event that removed gold from a celestial body, only to have that body be replaced by one that is silvery or milky white. Also there is a story about the journey of Ra that is supposed to describe the reason there is night and day. In the beginning Ra is born form a holy cow and form there he travels across the sky, sometimes being pushed by a dung beetle, sometimes being driven on a chariot of winged snakes, I believe. His incarnation changes a few times as he crosses the sky until the sun eventually sets and he dies. When Ra dies his soul, depicted as Ra with a ram's head boards a mythical boat/river barge and stars his nightly journey through the underworld. There he has to pass multiple gates and fight of an abyssal serpent. In fact there are many, many different serpents and I think 8 gates he goes through. Mighty Set even kills the great serpent. Eventually he makes it out of the underworld only to be reborn again with the following dawn. Your highlighting of the changing of color and the draining of gold and red from things, as well as the descriptions of a sunset all remind me of these myths. Interestingly Set is a hero in one and an villain in another. Which makes me wonder, who might be the Set in the Elden Ring world, Godfrey, Radagon, the Storm King (Set was a god of storms)? PS: There is an important Egyptian funerary amulet called the, "two fingers, " amulet, that are supposed to be Osiris's two fingers. They were usually placed around the liver area on a mummy and were supposed to offer mystical protection from further decay. Just another interesting tie in.

[@sillypinkewe]

Great comparison! 👍 👏

[@OccamsOnion]

This is amazing. Milk poured into the empty socket that represent the Moon and its cycles. Grapes that grew out of the missing eye... Metyr is "broken" likely due the whatever happened to her in the collapse. Gideon after a lengthy talk with the two fingers realized everything had been broken long ago (Lord's Divine Fortification incantation). What you said reinforce my idea that the three fingers must also be product of the collapse as well. And the idea of the underworld, boat and river, also fits well the water theme of the dead, mariner. You provided some really interesting and insightful context. Really appreciate it.

[@beansnrice321]

@@OccamsOnion You bet! There is obviously a lot of Babylonian myth in there as well and Egypt and Babylon both influenced each other a lot (as did Greece). However Egyptian myth was linked to Greek and in a away survived better and influenced more. For instance Hermes Trismegistus is the combination of Hermes and Thoth and is kind of a universal pen name for very early scribes. I've been digging deep watching videos and reading up on all of those religions but I keep coming back to the Egyptian. You might want to look up Ra's journey through the underworld on it's own and maybe a bit about the Greeks, especially Orphism. Orpheus canonized a lot of Greek myth and religion (as did a few others but Orpheus is a big one) and his creation myth has a many links to concepts of light and dark, life and death, the beginning of time, etc. I also think that the Greek rituals of sacrifice are also rather relevant, as are the gods Pan and Bacchus. Both were primitive bestial deities who likely predated most Greek Gods. Bacchus, being the god of grapes and madness is clearly linked to the frenzied flame. Some even link Bacchus to the later Odin. For a long time madness in general was considered to be divine, for good or ill. Keep the videos coming. I think you have some very well supported ideas that are also well fleshed out. Tarnished Archaeologist, Scum Mage Infa and yourself all seem to be thinking a step ahead of the rest. Keep it up! =)

[@lady__lefay]

I don’t think I have had my mind blown so many times in an hour. Great vid! I’m hungry for more!

[@castilloalejandro1]

Woah! This is what I want to see here, long and good videos.

[@Xandros999]

I don't think the "Eternal City" leveled by Astel was any of the extant ones. Indeed, they have not been leveled at all. Astel's lair is deep below the Lake of Rot. In the lake there are scattered buildings from the Ancient Dynasty. If there was a city here, it has indeed been leveled. In general the places where we find astels is in the Ancient Dynasty stratum, perhaps with the exception of the Snowfields Astel. Something else I find questionable is the assertion that Farum Azula was always floating. It does have roads that once led places, including the Bestial Sanctum. So what's with the ruin debris? Maybe there were floating temples but I don't think Farum Azula was always afloat. Maybe just really tall like the divine bridges. We do have that one divine bridge that doesn't go anywhere. Also, why are there so many golems in Limgrave, who may also have fallen from the Sky? So many questions, but you seem to be good at coming up with answers. Any thoughts as who from whose corpses came the Godslayer's Greatsword and the Fingerslayer Blade?

[@abigcupofwater]

The Ruins Greatsword describes "a ruin which fell from the sky", so there were definitely floating structures of some kind, but the sword itself doesn't seem to be connected to FA in any way. I think you're right that FA itself was always on the ground.

[@swamp-yankee]

There are no golems in Farum Azula though… I have often heard people say they fell from there, but if they did, why did all of them fall?

[@virtem7686]

​@@abigcupofwater same item state that the ruin started to crumble when was strike by a meteorite. is generally agreed that the sword is from Farum Azula which "has being crumbling since time immemorial" (old lord talisman) or "the slowly crumbling ruins in the skies" (azula beastman ashes). so is read that Farum Azula was in jagged peak (Bayle boss arena) until got hit by a metereoeite and start to float & crumble in the sky

[@mayhewstorm1473]

This... god damn this is GOOD.. I've got a lot of rethinking to do..

[@Mr_Sim]

I have just one concern that, for me, calls everything into question: I'm happy to see a video that considers that the celestial ruins don't belong to Farum Azula! I've always felt that these ruins didn't fit in with this flying city. But there's one thing that leads me to believe that these ruins couldn't have fallen before the Shattering: some ruins cover golden roads in Liurnia, and nothing seems to be being done to clear or rebuild the roads. It's inconceivable to me that the empire of the Golden Order could have left these roads blocked for ages. For me, the only possible reason these roads are still blocked is that these ruins fell after the Elden Ring was broken.

[@ct2136]

Love the wormface theory, no one else has gotten close.

[@Daydreamer4789]

Elden Ring is made of cycles. Both Miquella and Ranni talk about 1000 years long "voyages". And if we mend the Elden Ring to usher a new age, we add a cycle to it. What if each cycle the Elden Ring is comprised of is 1000 years it has existed for. Therefore, Sun Realm Elden Ring has existed for many thousands of years, but our current for only three.

[@jonathanhouse4964]

One thing I'd like to point out is the apparent connection between the banished knights and the various divine beast warriors of the Hornsent. From their horned armor to their movesets with elements of the storm, including even lightning in commander Niall's case they seem fairly inspired even remnants of their veneration of lions seems to have found a foothold into their culture. What with the frost related abilities those lions that hang around them have they're almost mini divine lions

[@G4MES_Theory]

Great video, my friend. Unfortunately, my channel is in Portuguese, but in my first and only theory video, I also pointed out the fact that there is more than one Elden Ring. Additionally, I agree with you that, prior to the Golden Order, it is very likely that there was the Age of the Sun. My video was more about the real form of the Elden Ring, and I pointed that it's not impossible for other outer gods to have their own rings. Btw, your video gave me a great idea for another theory! 😅 Keep de good work, mate!

[@specialnewb9821]

The Greater Will is not an outer god.

[@G4MES_Theory]

@@specialnewb9821 Is that so? Then why it's Elden Ring came from space? Why the Elden Beast is a cosmic being? I undertand your idea that maybe it is the god of the region, but it would make no sense since there was another gods wich were worshiped long before the Greater Will... But, if you have an explanation about it, I would like to hear!

[@specialnewb9821]

@G4MES_Theory it's a bad translation. the japanese version defines what we call outer gods as aspects of nature/reality excluded from the Golden Order. The Greater Will is above them, it created the reality that the outer gods embody. An outer god can certainly take over and become the essence of the age, becoming a central part of the Elden Ring, but it's still using the tool created by the greater will. The greater will does not appear to care WHAT order there, merely that there IS an order

[@G4MES_Theory]

@@specialnewb9821 Wow! Gotcha! If the english translation isn't accurate, then I bet that the portuguese version is even worse. I will take a good the japanese version, cuz it's not the first time people tell me about the bad translations... Thanks for explaining your point, mate!

[@specialnewb9821]

@G4MES_Theory the implication I find very interesting in thinking of them the way the Japanese script does is rather than inscrutable beings like the Great Ones, as parts of the natural order they may not really be sentient and operate more on instinct than purpose. Also thank you for considering what I said reasonably

[@pepega8198]

indeed, an awesome video

[@BTVagrant]

Well, this Eclipse thing explains all the death-blighted Giants on the mountain...

[@pritzi101]

Incredible work. The connection between the smithing stones and the vegetation is a genuine eye opening moment for me. I'm now wondering how these things all fit together. The destruction of the black moon of the nox, rain of meteorites that caused or may have been a result of it and banishing underground. Maybe it was the arrival of the Golden beast. I don't really know. Either way one of the two could be the cataclysm flood of molten rock that essentially shifted everything to predicting worship of the tree that Tarnished Archeologist is referring to in his latest video. If so, and if it was thw greater will that caused it, it would make sense that it or the fingers gave the prophesy to some people to save themselves. Regardless, thank you for just rekindling my curiosity in all of this.

[@johneverimanne3986]

Important note that I don't think you mentioned. The sun (in game) is a colorless white. Like, if you rest at a grace that isn't at Farum Azula (sun there also appears white) and find the sun in the sky, it's white.

[@CulturexHardcore]

Indeed, I subscribed.

[@Richard-jm3um]

This is unbelivably Good! Your level of analysis is leagues ahead of other channels that have yet to even mention the Castle of Sol!

[@OccamsOnion]

Thanks for the high praise! I actually loved my part of castle sol myself a lot haha so I am really you liked it as well

[@sportsracer48]

Interesting point about the wormfaces: in the code the are referred to as 'Deracine' meaning 'uprooted,' which is also the name of a less well known fromsoft VR game. In that game, the player uses a red ring to bestow dead life with time, which they steal from other living things.

[@HARBLJONES]

indeed.

[@EmperorMist]

Indeed.

[@OccamsOnion]

Indeed.

[@hfvideo8150]

The Caelid death rite bird in 1.0 was gold.

[@bobilly]

Great stuff. As with much of Elden Rings' lore, it's hard to definitively support or refute, but the internal logic of everything seems sound

[@TheLeafar99]

chefs-kiss, indeed

[@OccamsOnion]

Indeed.

[@EmperorMist]

Indeed.

[@tonylawson2222]

I keep rewatching this video.

[@OccamsOnion]

Thank you for the rewatch and sorry for the long wait between uploads! I will try to drop the next vid by the end of this month !

[@wellfedwhitekid1119]

52:00 this got me laughing for some reason, good video very informative

[@LieutenantMar]

Interesting considering placi's battle takes place outside of time, considering the sun and light itself dictates how time flows even in real life.

[@VaneWalker]

This video is very impressive and makes me more confident in my own personal crackpot theory that the Elden Beast is the true form of Radagon.

[@arbizozoren8956]

Great video. I have now subscribed in anticipation of that upcoming Hornsent video. Also, I can't help but try to tie the subsequent devastation of Nox society on the surface by Astels with the most recent Tarnished Archaelogist's video on the Rauh civilization and the purpose of the coffin boats. You are still in the process of working all of this, but would it be fair to say that a rough timeline of the history of the LB would place the Numen, Rauh and Dragon societies as the earliest, followed by the Giants, Uhl Dynasty, Nox survivors and the Hornsent in a middle, Elden Ring-absent period, and naturally the Erdtree Empire as the latest?

[@EmmettFlo7]

Really big connect that supports your theory: Bayle the Dread, the Dragon Lord's attacker, bears an unmistakable similarity to dragonkin soldiers (specifically his very distinctive chin). Bayle either was created by the Nox to overthrow Placidusax or at the very least the visual connection between him and the dragonkin soldiers confirms the Nox were active during the age of the ancient dragons and likely their enemies.

[@OccamsOnion]

Interesting found! Thank you for coming back again to share this!

[@K8theKind]

Yes indeed, glorious, exquisite masterpiece. Spreading this around. Thank you for the colossal effort getting your thoughts and analysis out, priceless contribution to the community in largely dry times. 💜🫧

[@OccamsOnion]

That would be much appreciated! Much thanks for the high praise! I guess not having enough time to make it quick enough somehow worked out then haha.

[@K8theKind]

@@OccamsOnion I happen to prefer the longer form videos. They allow for a lot more clarity and continuity as well as structurally cohesive expression of ideas. Definitely will pay off!

[@joepeluso4738]

I really like this theory, especially the idea of two different Elden Rings. It would explain why there's very little mention of the Elden ring in the showrealm. Could it be possible the Hornsent were unaware of the Elden Ring entirely and it was something that the shaman discovered/kept secret?

[@killervic7379]

Good job dude. Great video.

[@EmmettFlo7]

This may be reading into things too much but it's interesting that the Festive Grease is distinctly gold AND purple ie gloam.

[@yabo2898]

some details caught my eye, I'm curious if anyone has thoughts on these things 1:15:31 who knows if there is actually a correlation and if so what could it be that both metyir and the creatures affected by deth blight spit out these worms 1:09:50 I think it wasn't said in the video, sorry if I'm wrong but the sky when Marika ascends to the gate of divinity is purple on the left, an aesthetic element that could strengthen the theory because purple may be the color of the gloom eye queen

[@OccamsOnion]

I am glad someone caught on haha. The video has gotten to long for my liking so I decide to use the clips to show some ideas instead. There are more as well so feel pay to watch again and pay attention to the clips I used! THEY TOOK A LOT OF TIME TO SHOOT haha. The Gloam sky is not intended as its from the trailer. But good catch!

[@yabo2898]

@@OccamsOnion I take this opportunity to congratulate both the director and the screenplay of the video. 10\10 and applause I've actually seen a lot of videos about Elden Ring lore and your content is definitely one of the best a tip from a video I saw recently, if you're interested, there's a KZbinr who recently analyzed some reliefs of some of the gloom eyed queen's equipment, You might be interested in the analysis if you haven't seen it. I don't remember the content of the video but I had never noticed some details. kzbin.info/www/bejne/qpCWeaiferuphpI

[@beansnrice321]

I just had a quick random thought that might be somewhat obvious. Sometimes the lore of the game is in the mechanics of the game. For instance, holy weapons do grievous damage to those who live in death and the deathbirds. Another example are the finger creepers being severely vulnerable to fire. In fact many representatives of the golden order are weak to fire, such as Morgot and the various tree spirits and avatars. To me this shows a weakness to the solar diety that you described. It feels weird saying it but the golden order is quite likely (and perhaps even more obviously) a Nox->Shaman->Numen creation.

[@swamashijudbedolofritt4448]

To be honest. This is very refreshing to see new ideas that holds weight. Some logical holes here and there, but moastly interesting. Think you are on to somthing when you say GEQ was an imperyon connected to the sun realm and the ancient dragons. Remember that the storm beyond time is reminiscent to Radahn halting the stars to stop the fate of the carians. Placidusax might have done the same for some unclear reason. All in all I really enjoyed wathing this. Good job

[@rafsandomierz5313]

Considering that all fate of every thing in Elden ring universe belongs to stars, not only Carrian family, yes even Golden Order depends on them so Radahann halted fate of everything not only one person which is what caused the stagnation.

[@stephenlucas8836]

Surprised Bayle and the Drake rebellion was not mentioned. Hope they and the dragonkin get talked about later.

[@jbark678]

Lord of the Rings' lore has a transfer from an era with two great lamps to an era of two great trees. It seems similar to Elden Ring's transfer from sun to tree.

[@Serilaene]

Bro I can't with all these "Indeed", I'm just losing my shit lmao

[@patrickdaniello7590]

My God this is genius, I think you've cracked the code. Only thing I might not agree with is whether or not faram azula was always floating, Indeed, It may have once been situated upon the jagged peak.

[@falgalhutkinsmarzcal3962]

While your theory is very interesting (and compelling), my problem is that you discount the English version of events when the writer of the Pre-Shattering lore (G RRMartin) is an American who wrote the lore in English. In fact, vers 1.00 has a lot of English info that was later removed because GRRM's lore-building was explicit. For example, in vers 1.00 it outright states crucial info in the "gift" you can choose for your character. 1, the rune states that Grace inhabits the eyes of the inhabitants of the Lands Between. 2, Miquella created the Bewitching Branches himself. 3, one item states that Radagon KNEW the Tarnished would return and warned the others about it (meaning he knew of Marika's plan to use the Tarnished to free herself of the GW, which is why he locks her away with the briar thorns of Radagon). It is like everyone wants to dismiss GRR Martin's basis for the world. If GRRM says that Placidusax's god "fled" then his god fled. Edit to add that there are soulless demigods in the Finger Ruins, meaning that the God of Death (and Deathblight) certainly could have existed before Godwyn's assassination. Moreover, the 2nd Dancing Lion has a Deathblight phase, meaning it can channel that god independent of Godwyn. I believe Marika used Godwyn as a vessel for Deathblight much the same as she used Messmer for the Abyssal Serpent and Malenia for the Scarlet Rot.

[@OccamsOnion]

Hi! Glad that you liked the theory and thanks for watching as well. I guess because I used the different translation as an entry point and has led to a misunderstanding, as I mention soon after that whether the god fled or simply left, it doesnt affect this picture that i am going to paint you. I also purposefully brought up both fled and left throughout the vid as well. Hope this can clear things up!

[@falgalhutkinsmarzcal3962]

@@OccamsOnion and I agree with you on many things, especially the idea that a Death god existed before Godwyn. I would encourage you to incorporate the soulless demigods of the Finger Ruins into your theory about Death and the Sun Realm because I think their presence at the Finger Ruins supports the idea of the Death god predating Godwyn and the Night of the Black Knives.

[@OccamsOnion]

I agree, death is very ancient in the Lands Between. I will see what i can cook up!

[@steamedhamlet]

Oh wow! I thought those were roots in the ancient depiction of the elden ring in maliketh's arena but they're the strands!

[@Garrinca]

Love the video, as much as I loved the first one. You mentioned you would say something more about Melina and her eye. Is this gonna be in another video?

[@OccamsOnion]

Glad you liked it! Next vid will most likely be on the hornsent but I will definitely address this when we get to Marika in the future.

[@Garrinca]

@@OccamsOnion looking forward!

[@jotasietesiete4397]

I think your reasoning is solid, but if the eclipse shotel has the flames of the previous prince of death, then there must have been no Ranni equivalent. Remember that Godwyn did not become the prince of death fully. The ritual failed because Ranni betrayed everyone.

[@OccamsOnion]

Thanks! The hypothesis that there was an Ranni equipvalent is because the fingerslayer blade is already "blood-drenched" when we found it. Ranni needed it specifically to cast away her flesh so she could be freed from the "control" and start her path and Age of Stars, so if the blade is already used when we found it, it must have been used for the same purpose. The Nox also wanted to start the Age of Stars with their Black Moon.

[@JagerEinheit]

I tend to think that the gloam eyed queen was the empyrean setup to kill whatever the greater will decided was no longer worthy to be a pawn in its game. i think is important to reiterate is that it seems that unless you cast away your empyrean flesh, you are a slave to the greater will /two fingers of order, which is something Ranni said, IE the gloam eyed queen was an existence that once killed goes right back into the Erdtree cycle as destined death was/is only sealed upon her dying, and we all know that Melina is carrying her eye, and was summoned by her "mother" with a job to lead us tarnished, IE an empyrean "slaved" to the greater will is trying to get us to rebuild its "order". the eye remains closed, and she is burned at the crucible, removing her danger once again from the great game allowing us to proceed with the resumption of "order". However once we choose not to burn her, and we reject order, We get her eye opening. This to me implies TGW is worried when we break the "rules of the game" and threaten to restart everything with the flames of chaos. Her being an empyrean means that TGW can empower her /unlock her eye as we have freed destined death already for it. So TGW has her as a pawn nearby and uses that to remove us from the "board game" before we reset everything including it. Other things like Astel being summoned, etc seem to fit into this idea that the greater will has setup a "game" to play with "rules/order" and as long as you stay within the rules it doesn't care whether you are dragon or numen, you can rule, but by entering a pact to rule within its rules, you are a trapped god, and trying to step outside the rules, which the Nox did, and others tried in the chaos ending, etc TGW basically flips the board and says my house, my rules survive this! only via Ranni doing all the steps as she has does she ably sidestep the golden cage that TGW offers as "godhood" and becomes an actual god free from its rules. onto another big question I have, it seems every empyrean has another side of themselves in the same body, IE marika/radagon and miquella /st trina. so who was hte alternate side of Ranni? was the reason godwyn died because he was her "other side" that had to die too so she could be free? Miquella had to abandon St trina, and marika and radagon being different sexes being an example of the 2 bodies living at once then combining. Also whose was the gloam eyed queens? will or has the game told us somehow? anyway enjoy picking this apart, the board game with pieces called "Empyreans" (pawns) always stuck with me as the sort of thing a bored actual god would do, not only to satisfy its boredom, but also to trap any usurpers in a golden cage of its own design.

[@rafsandomierz5313]

Flame of chaos/Frenzy doesn't rebirth anything. What Heyetta says is pretty clear, Melina confirms it with her own words making you reconsider the decision of "saving" her. "Birth's continue. Isn't that beautifu?" which means even she knows that wherever was a cycle a flame of frenzy is a destruction of everything that exists and it includes all life. "I will deliver what's yours. Destined death" - Melina in the ending of frenzy. Unlike destined death that allows rebirth, frenzy flame *consumes all life with no exceptions.* Which doesn't allow any life to occur because all is melted into one ball in the sky which is the lord of frenzy in the ending.