This Tudor is rarer than a Submariner - Black Bay Harrods Limited Edition

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• Video
Hi Guys,
If you follow me on Instagram (@barkandjack), then you will have seen shots of this Tudor Black Bay Harrods Edition. It's a great looking piece, and pretty hard to find.
They can only be bought from the Tudor AD in Harrods, London and the wait list is about 12 months.
I wasn't allowed to keep it, despite it being a great investment watch.
I thought I'd buy it and do an in-depth hands-on review of the Tudor Black Bay Harrods Edition Ref. 79230G.
Music:
Les Cooles De Ville ft. Benny Sings - Starr People
open.spotify.c...
www.lescoolesdeville.com
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#Tudor #Harrods #Rolex
Tags:
hands on reivew of the tudor black bay, Tudor black bay Harrods edition, great investment watches, best watches for investment, watches that increase in value, rare tudor, tudor black bay vs rolex submariner, is tudor as good as rolex?, is tudor owned by rolex?, tudor black bay vs omega seamaster,

[@marcgoldbergdogtrainer]

It’s a ceramic ball bearing in the bracelet. It will outlive us all!

[@BarkandJack]

That's really cool. I should have researched that bit. Thanks for watching Marc.

[@ams914]

Rolex still uses steel for the clasp, I'm pretty sure.

[@SexyMistaMustard]

when i went and checked one of these out in the ad, thats what i was most amazed by was the clasp smoothness, its quite amazing.

[@Lucky_2847]

Love your vids too Marc. Nice to see you also watch watch vids...lol

[@Lucky_2847]

I have an idea Marc and Adrian should collaborate!

[@christianno2803]

Watched this video 20 times, because I bought a Harrods. This video is so reassuring in combination with the music. Love it

[@lancehatch4475]

I'm going to get hate for this but I like that watch more than your Batman.

[@beardefu3706]

agreed

[@nobass_stub1394]

No hate here :)

[@georgiebungle2252]

Lance Hatch yep you’re a prick ! Lol

[@Pete_YT]

I just can't live with the thickness of these Black Bays, just too much. The only one I would consider is the fifty eight for this reason because it is not as pronounced on the wrist.

[@TheProco2020]

Nope I'm with you, don't like the Batman, like the Harrods, planning on buying a 58.

[@DebmalyaSinha]

I saw this long ago and wanted this watch because of the very classy subtle green! Today I got the call and immediately went to Harrods to collect it! Cheers Adrian!

[@trampus63]

I was just at the London watch show this weekend, and popped over to Harrods to put my name down for one. That'll go with my Black Bay 58 and my Black Bay GMT. Not that I'm a fan...Can't wait!

[@louisjackson9220]

Any idea how long the wait list is? Thanks

[@trampus63]

@@louisjackson9220 Hi there, Harrods Emailed me to confirm my place on the list and said it would be between 8 & 12 months, so between May & September next year. Cheers, John

[@louisjackson9220]

@@trampus63 Thanks John I’m hoping to do the same! Enjoy it

[@troobs1990]

Just FYI, those bearings on the bracelet flip-lock are ceramic

[@irish0625]

Don't worry most of us are right in the dog house with you!

[@hishamhabib666]

Patrick 👍🏻

[@dianajohari2120]

hear ye... hear ye... brother...

[@Sahibsinghchohan]

Loooooooove this piece! I too was on the waiting list for around a year. I got mine couple of months ago and I adore it! Great detailed video! Keep up the good work!!

[@nohandleisagoodhandle]

Congrats on the pregnancy!

[@gardehusar24]

Hahan exactly what I thought 😁🤭

[@carminered]

@@gardehusar24 same. lol

[@valengreymoon5623]

Overall, very nice, but they really do need to thin out that case a bit. Also the old Tudor rose should make a return to the dial. That's about it.

[@lordmonty9421]

I agree. The width of the case is quite excessive. I was playing with a Black Bay at an authorized dealer a couple of weeks ago and it's comically tall on the wrist.

[@johnfrei9057]

Valen Greymoon Agreed. Also the crown looks too big and needs some protection.

[@lordmonty9421]

@@johnfrei9057 I'm okay with crown guards so long as they're done correctly. Before the Submariner started on roids, they had the right idea: elegantly swooping curves like a 60's sports car. I would not consider a modern one. I own the Z-Blue Milgauss which no crown guards, and I like that vintage look. The difference is in the crown itself though on the Rolexes - they're compact and unobtrusive. This Black Bay's crown looks like the tuning knob on a vintage radio or something. It protrudes from the case quite a bit, it's large, and has an unfinished appearance. In my opinion.

[@johnfrei9057]

James Ash I agree. If the crown wasn’t so big, it would look fine without the guard.

[@abc56735]

Just got my BB58 because I don't like the size of a normal BB. It's perfect.

[@johnnewman3316]

My advice. Get rid of the wife and keep the watch

[@TheRicksta87]

Haha this made me laugh more than it should have!

[@mamalemon4461]

And half of his house 😂😂😂

[@RickP2012]

@@mamalemon4461 And half his watch collection.

[@jackfyddle1]

John Newman Hahahahahaha

[@tuckerfrance6741]

@@RickP2012 Or the whole house and keep the watch collection

[@wiwatchguy8798]

Congratulations Adrian. I too as supposedly on the waiting list, but living here in the States I doubt I ever hear from Harrods. That said now that the Black Bay Fifty Eight is out I'd rather have a Harrod's version of that. I'm probably being nitpicky, but I would prefer the second hand not to be tipped and of course the shield on the dial to be a rose. Still that's for me arguably the best looking Black Bay you can get.

[@BarkandJack]

I completely agree. The BB58 is perfect. A green one would be amazing.

[@numberstation]

I’m on the waiting list for the Ann Summers limited edition. The second hand has a purple tip, it comes with an inflatable rubber strap and is water resistant to a depth of 12 inches. Needs to be lubricated regularly, though.

[@augustinf]

I really love the black bay and that green one is simply the most beautiful one

[@MJamilHoque]

Funny guy. My wife would be like "Where's mine?" I like the green bezle. So right, so regle.

[@mrg1911]

PS: At least you didn't bring a Patek Philippe home!

[@markplayford5836]

Ha ha Brilliant.

[@moshinkhalifa]

😂😂😂😂

[@wolfdna788]

Give him 6 months when he has 100,000 subscribers

[@firstname7780]

You bring the patek to no home. Patek is the home..

[@marcuswong3202]

I just picked mine up on Monday, been on waiting list since October. Its beautifully understated

[@Colby_0-3_IRL_and_title_fights]

Honestly Tudor has been killing Rolex for a couple of years now by taking design risks that Rolex wouldn't dare.

[@oh_io.watches]

This comment has aged so beautifully . . . 😂

[@Cali_Texan]

@@oh_io.watches 😂😂😂 🤦‍♂️

[@ThisIsMTH]

I got this piece last week. There is another difference - the depth rating is quoted in ft first, followed by metres. This is the opposite of usual Black Bays and signifies the imperial measure traditionally associated with Britain.

[@Georgekartveli]

Love the way Harrods edition looks. I often see it being compared to Kermit, since you have both, would be interesting to see the comparison.

[@175139]

Nice video. I think the shade of green is spot on. A really nice looking variation to the usual colours

[@J43rv1]

LOVE IT! Been so curious about this piece Adrian and I'm happy you got it so you can give us another smashing review

[@MarcSherwood]

When I got the same call I had to convince my wife I should fly from Vancouver to London to pick this up and see a friend for the weekend. Lucked out with an upgrade to 1st on the way over and Business on the way home. Thanks BA! I just love this watch. I did enjoy taking my GMT to Greenwich to visit home.

[@marcgoldbergdogtrainer]

Enjoyed the vid as always! These BB’s have some of the very best bezels of any watch!!!

[@markluffman2893]

Collect mine this Saturday!👍👍😍😍

[@resolver388]

"I buy watches I can't afford" ... Sounds familiar... Must be me 🤣

[@thatsgoodgb]

It looks fantastic btw, the green tip is such a cool touch

[@dutchcoiner]

I absolutely love this watch tbh. The golden markers combined with the green bezel... just marvelous! If it was 38mm, I'd grab it without a doubt.

[@christophermarshall3551]

Adrian (I hope I spelled that correctly), those little balls on the clasp of the Tudor bracelet are made of ceramic. They are ceramic ball bearings and They should last decades, if not the full life of the watch itself. I wish other watch makers would follow Tudor in their bracelet designs. Probably one of the best double lock designs I’ve seen on a modern watch....love your vids btw...top notch!

[@geordiebatt]

Prettier than the Kermit imo.

[@diydad7704]

Absolutely. The Kermit is bling, this is style.

[@George-dk8cm]

Show her the price on the receipt and prices online. If Harrods call you for this one, you take it.

[@Pete_YT]

Lovely watch, love the green accent on the hand and overall look. Way cooler than most alternatives. My only issue is with the thickness. I really hope Tudor do more with the fifty eight case as the thinner profile is needed

[@Livelaughlimpbizkit]

Don’t know if anyone’s already mentioned this but apparently there was a huge safe in either their HQ or factory and they wanted to make the click of the bezel sound like the click of safe which is why the bezel sounds like that when being rotated

[@rb1826]

I picked mine up 2 weeks ago, absolutely beautiful watch.

[@barryisland3349]

Those considering paying double retail on these items have Rocks in their heads....and makes me question whether the current batch of KZbinrs are interested in Horology or just helping to create the bubble that surrounds certain pieces in our hobby and investment is their only aim...we as viewers should never underestimate the power of Hype and advertising...

[@manuel_winde]

I don’t know if they ever sold for double. People list them for £3600-5200 now but they tend to actually sell around £3500-3800. Anyone paying double is off their nut, unless they’re rich and abroad and can afford to take the hit.

[@markdance574]

That opening line - must be replicated every day by thousands of guys lol Excellent- My wife had the hump when I said I wanted a new car - She said make sure it’s practical we’ve got two dogs etc etc I left her at home went to the dealership by myself - came home with a stunning bmw 6 series gran coupe Job done

[@BarkandJack]

Haha. Nicely done!

[@markdance574]

Thanks - I’m loving the car and loving your channel and content

[@Bemjji]

That watch is beautiful. Visually the Kermit looks drab next to it. That’s a watch you need to hold on to.

[@lisabradley9288]

Forget about the Harrods connection that green bezel, that dial its just a stunning watch Adrian and I hope everything is ok with you and your family as its a shame you couldn't keep the watch! Please please make a video on ladies watches! I'm begging you please 🙏

[@mmaworld552]

Good idea 👍

[@MrFlodop]

I’m looking for my first luxury watch. Considering my first job was for Harrods, this might be it!

[@cwuzii]

What did you get?

[@hanhs850]

I wonder why no one ever talk about the Bucherer edition as a collectible compared with the Harrods one.

[@qadrik]

Good grief that watch looks brilliant. I think the green works beautifully. Excellent review as always!

[@PaulE911]

Cannot wait for the Harrods version of the BB58

[@maitrehg]

Paul-Emmanuel Coste For girls.

[@PaulE911]

maitrehg I’m not ashamed :*

[@louise7168]

Beaut of a watch just wish it was thinner, then maybe it could replace my sub

[@jhmsmarttv795]

Beautiful acquisition, even though I personally find it a bit on the thicker side. I love the colours. Wear it in good health Adrian! 😊

[@Pete_YT]

agree on the thickness, such a shame.

[@abdulseaforth6930]

@@Pete_YT I concur Pete. A tad on the thick side

[@j.j.thorne9721]

I like the looks of the Harrods Tudor. I would buy one at the retail price for sure.

[@gerardanthony9834]

Terrific review on a really compelling Tudor. The Harrods Limited, as with the Black Bay Fifty-Eight Bronze, position Tudor in a true unique niche as offering remarkable horological design, craftsmanship, history and value with the allure of their “hard-to-get” and damn handsome appeal. I love this watch. Thanks!

[@facelessman5362]

I WISH they made this in the Black Bay 58 size, I would've paid whatever for it.

[@troogroove9318]

I was going to buy the harrods black bay but I ended up buying the black bay steel and gold. It just had something else about it, I might go and look at one at the weekend as I know a dealer who has one and I get an amazing price from him.

[@schinagldaniel7752]

That's not a big deal, as every 2nd person has a Submariner

[@BennettIsAmazing]

Easily my favourite black bay.. and I'm quite tempted by it!

[@kevinfernandez8416]

Honestly I know Adrian won’t ever read this message but it would be so cool if you rewatched this and reflected how your collecting journey has evolved since this video and a look back at your old taste

[@Willandern]

Nice video Adrian. I just had to let my Harrods go as well, the case is just a tad too large. There’s one last feature that set it apart from the normal BB, and that’s the feet first depth rating (that glows under UV light).

[@BarkandJack]

I wish I knew that. Would have looked awesome! Thanks for watching buddy.

[@hanhs850]

Do you still have it?

[@philipallen2730]

BEAUTIFUL STUNNING EXQUISITE GORGEOUS and so many other expletives. The colour is amazing

[@goldtoothjacko]

Adrian, so, some may have already said it but the balls are ceramic. Tudor tested them 100000's of times and measured no wear at all. They will out last the watch and probably us. Love the Harrods BB.

[@BarkandJack]

Yeah that’s really cool.

[@mrg1911]

Congratulations on your news! Regarding the reference to "Investment"....I believe some folks require more than one excuse to "Justify" a watch purchase. I truly can't justify most things I own.....I simply like owning cool stuff. Have you considered the Green-Sub? Maybe trade the Tudor and Green-Bezel-Rolex towards it? Have you also considered a Datejust-41? Many people obsess on Steel-Sport-Stunners and overlook the Datejust. I finally bought one this past summer and LOVE it! I'm not much for coloring on watches....that said, my AD phoned past week and I picked up my new 2018 Blue/Red-GMT-II.....so don't take my advice! Thanks Adrian....let's have TEA!

[@thewatchloungechris]

Love the black bay I have the original eta black rose version. Contemplating letting mine go not sure yet. A buddy of mine just got this version looks sweet.

[@5RustyBin]

there's a 4th pretty cool difference between this and the normal black bay. The depth rating on the dial is in green but also its written with feet before metres as a nod to Harrods British Heritage. I thought that was pretty neat.

[@npmp3913]

wonderful post chap... love that bb bronze aesthetic, apart from size. agree with poster below, the green bb is a great look cf. the rolex.

[@greenpulp.]

I really like the Blue Edition of the Black Bay Bronze but already got the normal Bronze one...

[@28smiddy]

Hi Adrien, the other difference between the Harrods BB and regular BB is the depth measurment on the dial is in the reverse order, The "660ft" is before the "200mtrs" text, a nod to imperial mesurements used in the UK.

[@bobbythebobtail]

Sorry Steve you're wrong, UK is a metric country. Road distances and vehicle speeds are shown in miles but all business, engineering, construction... everything is done in metric. Those little numbered posts by the side of the motorway - there kilometer markers for the highways maintenance guys to know which part of the road they're on 😂 The ISO for dive watches is all metric. The only reason Swiss watch makers put feet on watches is for the American market. Sad but true.

[@28smiddy]

James, I'm fully aware, as I'm sure most people are, that the UK uses metric, I remember as a child switching from imperial to metric. The point I was making is that the measurements on the dial are in the reverse order, when compared to a regular Black Bay. This is due to Harrods being a UK company and UK traditional measurements are still often stated using imperial. A nod to our past measuring system, which for many people is still being used, myself included.

[@avivscrewvalla]

If only they'd make a 38mm version like the BB58!

[@paneraiatheart5925]

Actually, my preference is the Harrods BB over the Kermit. The Colour is splendid. The Harrods Green works with a broader range of clothing and is much more alluring to me. I’d never get tired of it. Are the hands a golden hue or is that my imagination? You forgot to mention the subtle Harrods green text on the Dial too.

[@vvvhhhhhbb]

I know I am in the minority, but I like the rivets. Not many other watches have this. i like that its very out of the ordinary.

[@Halfmoon67]

Hi Adrian! Really nice vid as usual! I'm surprised I assumed this watch was based on the new BB58 (39mm), and I've been checking it out quickly bc I like the bb58. Now that I know it's based on the regular BB, I have to admit I'm a bit disapointed lol! Great looking pice however! Cheers

[@tanray1748]

The green BB is a cool piece and the rarity makes it special.

[@billbochnak2898]

Brillant, the wife would never allow a sub, i have my sights set on a Tudor and this is ideal. Perfect buy, hope you are allowed back in the big bed soon and the bride appreciates the positive margin when you flip it.

[@RobNY5150]

I like the Back Bay more than the Sub actually. Tudor is really making a huge comeback. I love my Tudor North Flag because it's not like any other watch on the market IMO. It does have its roots perhaps in the explorer and ranger type watches but for me it's the perfect every day watch. Enjoy your new addition to the family!

[@ciroamore2129]

Today I received an email from harrods and I'm going to pick up my Tudor blackbay special edition harrods. I'm so excited 👍

[@manuel_winde]

How did you get on with it? Picking mine up this week 😬

[@English2Elvish]

The huge thing for me is the comparison between the thicknesses, which I am finding more and more is a huge deal when comparing watches. But, I do LOVE Tudor lineup, I own one :D

[@itsfatboyjim]

Finally managed to get to Harrods (COVID now allowing) to pick mine up! Love it. Very subtle.

[@distantport]

this is NOT an ordinary Tudor.... this one is a beauty :)

[@toonlad4091]

I watched this video about 10 times...... I want one😂

[@derekshearer9049]

I have a Tudor Black Bay Heritage 79230N and Rolex GMT 116710LN. Love them both. The fit and finish on the Rolex is better but not by much and the accuracy of my Tudor is nuts - 1 sec a month. Great vid. Cheers

[@SOULBISCUITS]

Another difference is the depth has ft before metres homage to uk, other bb's have metres first. Tudor are smashing it just now with there line of watches. The harrods watch is a keeper for sure very indemand and collectable. Stunning watch!!!! 42mm Tudor double dates are nice also, whilst omega churn out another man on the moon watch and limited edition on every watch they release . Tudors sales are through the roof through innovative design and value for money.

[@user-bo5ff8sx5p]

As an owner of a modern seamaster myself, I completely agree. I LOVE my seamaster ceramic but can’t stand the way Omega is slowly devaluing itself through overproduction, increased case sizes and more flashy designs. Tudor, on the other hand, has taken a leaf from their older brother’s book and taken the less is more approach. It is most definitely paying off.

[@psmith2632]

Resale value on these are £3100 unworn, they are now discontinued because tudor said they wasnt in demand as much as they thought they would be.

[@pwally2714]

The movement on this feels amazing. I felt it and immediately pulled out my credit card. (Black bay steel though)

[@azizhusseinz2083]

Very nice and looks very vintage. The green makes it looks very timeless

[@davidskeeterskeeter1835]

Picked mine up on Monday,,,,Amazing service from Tudor on ground floor in Harrods,, 🐝🐝🐝🐝 Buzz watch folks 👏👏👏 Dave B,,

[@Jpjc474]

Just imagine a Harrods Black Bay Fifty Eight. Damn that would be perfection.

[@maitrehg]

James C For you maybe. For real men, 41mm is perfect.

[@laurenceharrison661]

2mm extra makes a real man ? ;)

[@maitrehg]

Laurence Harrison Real men wear real men's watches, not women's size watches.

maitrehg correct the 41mm case of the bb is perfect. All these girly men complain that its too big and love the bb 58s girly little dimensions

[@WhoKnows-zl7cc]

Real Nice! I like more than your Kermit. Something about the gold and flat green.

[@maisonestates]

Crazy grey market prices if you’re impatient like me!

[@gustaflembre4191]

"The buckle is really very good" Really very good review Adrian!!!

[@gilliebrand]

Yep, really like the look....but, when you put it next to the Kermit...oh boy...the Sub knocks the Harrods into the shade. Good luck trying to pacify the wife.

[@bradorchard5828]

To me, thats more of a special edition that the Kermit. Other than the green bezel, whats special about the Kermit? With this there's the green seconds hand, the green bezel, the special case back, AND the green writing on the dial. Very nice watch

[@mauricerobello947]

I like the exclusivity and look of the concept... Worked really well to produce an great tool watch...

[@philiplauzon1743]

Thanks Adrian, I will be running to my AD to get on the waiting list. I have been looking at a Black Bay for a year now, your video made it that I will chose the Harrods edition

[@RawRapper]

I’m on the waiting list go knows how long

[@manuel_winde]

I got the Harrods call yesterday and went on in jan/feb 2020

[@King_Harrold]

Currently saving for a black bay 41-Blue. Don't do such things on credit, so enjoying such videos to scratch my itch before procuring my own.

[@eco8gator]

Great pickup! I think you should consider a blue/blue Tudor 79190 Submariner. Those wear more comfortable than any 40+mm Tudor and is more collectable.

[@Joe-xo3xy]

I am not very sure about your last comment regarding Tudor vs Rolex in the Luxury Segment. By the way, not really a Tudor fan but to answer your question, infact you provided me with the answer. I would say Tudor is not as Luxurious as Rolex but it certainly has all the ingredients to be called Luxury. The heritage is a good factor, use of great materials, an in-house movement. They just stepped up on this model with the new bezel mechanism, ball bearing you mentioned most likely and the new ceramic ball bearing clasp holder. It's affordable Luxury. Greetings from a former Londoner all the way from Lebanon.

[@allthestroke88]

I also like the Green font for the water resistance.

[@Gary_S]

Picking mine up this weekend - can't wait :) Great looking watch and hope you keep and don't flip it.

[@manuel_winde]

How did you get on with it? I’m due to pick mine up this week and in that excitable child mode where I watch videos of the watch I’ve already bought while I wait to get it 😂

[@Gary_S]

@@manuel_winde I love it. Haven't worn it a great deal but do enjoy the watch whenever I do. The green on the bezel insert and writing on the dial is a lovely shade. Wear it in good health!

[@manuel_winde]

@@Gary_S it looks amazing- was worried it would wear too big but I’ve got a Speedmaster and owned a Seiko mm300 so guessing it can’t be too bad. Also happily owned a Corum Bubble chronograph and a Panerai in the OST which are both ridiculously big haha

[@richardm2661]

For some reason I quite disliked this watch when it first came out. Really quite like them now! Nice piece.

[@manuel_winde]

I wasn’t fussed until I saw it in person. Absolutely beautiful in “real life”, pictures didn’t do it justice for me

[@Djarra]

Tudor back in the 20s were sold in London by DH Evens which was then bought by Harrods having had a long standing trading agreement with them. DH Evens Oxford St store became the House of Frazier store in 2000 and will close in January, being redeveloped as part of the salvage deal. So there is some history between them. Given the price tag of the mid 80s Swatch Harrods edition this could be a good investment.

[@SudeepGupta]

This watch is absolute joy to look at. Would definitely hate to let this one go!

[@andrewnamel9850]

You forgot to the mention that the depth rating on the dial is not only reversed (ft before m) but also in green!! 🤤🤤

[@BarkandJack]

I didn’t know it was reversed. That’s cool. 👍🏻

[@khoocheepeng]

Stunning, I just got my BB 58 bronze 39 and BB Bronze 41 (Brown).

[@MrLukeeld]

Thanks for the video Adrian, great content as usual. If your going in the dog house over a watch purchase, then it may as well be for something as cool as this one.

[@hishamhabib666]

I don’t blame ya Adrian! Who could resist??? Hope you didn’t get into a LOT of trouble? Well, what can I say, I’ve been there 😉 & it happens to us all!😆. Great watch, great fit and finish! Loved the subtle green bezel! I certainly agree that Tudor is going down the “tool watch “ route. But who knows for sure eh? The bezel is certainly a worthy competitor to the GREEN on the KERMIT bezel. Great vid as always mate!👍🏻. Tc. Best, Hisham.

[@victorriga348]

Great watch Harrods green is superb. I don’t like Sub with date it’s disturb the dial. Great video on the great relationship you have with watches, thanks.

[@BarkandJack]

Thanks so much Victor. Glad you like the watch and the video. Thanks for watching. Cheers, Adrian

[@TheRunningManZ]

The lack of a date would put me off I think, no date on something subtle like an explorer or a dress watch would be fine, but for something huge and tooly I think I'd want a date. It is really nicely done with the green text on the dial, the bezel and the seconds hand. It suites the matt black dial with the subtly of the whole thing altogether. I think Id want a date on a watch like this personally though. You are gonna flip this for profit arent you? It aint gonna make it out the house on your wrist! ;)

[@BarkandJack]

Haha. Yeah I flipped it.

[@andyreiter6253]

Bark and Jack you sold it ?

[@BarkandJack]

Andy Kiesling yeah it’s gone. It had to go. We needed to free up cash. Hopefully that’s the only watch that needs to be sold.

[@TheRunningManZ]

You're rolling in money now then, forget needing to free up cash, it's time to order the JLC section dial chrono!!!

[@andyreiter6253]

@@TheRunningManZ are you ordering the jlc master chrono dial ?or bark and jack ?