Thomas & Tugs: are they in the same universe?

[@elsbridgestudios1885]

Don't forget to leave your thoughts in the coments!

[@storiesfromdifferenteras]

28:59 Tom Tipper's Postvan, Bertie's family, and other background vehicles

[@harrisonallen651]

David Mitton always wanted to combine the two shows together, also with Big Mickeys introduction in the 21st series helps that opinion to seem sense. I also have to agree on your Batman and Superman analogy.

[@zombieguildford]

The answer, really, is they are in a shared universe, between the actual efforts made to canonically bridge the shows in the past, they're similarities in concepts and executions, and also because a great deal of props were shared, oh, and Big Mickey was canonically reintroduces in the CGI series of Thomas and Friends, yeah, they're canon to each other. Sad we never got an episode about Big Mickey, where he reference events from Tugs, I'm use the productions team ta that time where likely planning to use Big Mickey as a vehicle (Pun Intended) to introduce more Tugs Characters, but sadly that didn't happened. Oh, and if any Tugs characters appear in All Engines Go, I will shoot myself, not a world I want to live in where Thomas goes to the Docks, and jumps of the tracks onto one of Top Hats Rail Barges, just to get knocked off it by Warrior, and then we see Thomas swim in the water, a tank engine, swimming, before Big Mickey yeets him out, and Captain Star yells at them all, and says he's tell the Fat Controller... No thank you...

[@jakenewberg1233]

Such Missed Opportunity for a Crossover Episode that could’ve gone down in 1980’s Tv History

[@AtkataffTheAlpha]

For the shows combining, the Thomas community has found ways to combine whether putting the tugs in stories or making the connections with Puffa

[@RogueRail]

It’s a shame Tugs wasn’t as successful as Thomas. But something tells me that somewhere out there in an alternate universe, Tugs became so successful, that they did a special crossover with Thomas.

[@elsbridgestudios1885]

Now that I would love to see!

[@ryancampbell4119]

@@elsbridgestudios1885that was an idea thrown around but Mattel couldn’t get the rights to use them

[@elsbridgestudios1885]

@@ryancampbell4119 I think it's more than just copyright issues. The main problem with Tugs is that whilst being very ahead of its time, it's also very much of its time. Because it was ahead of its time it meant it didn't get the audience it was hoping for until about 20 years after it aired. But certain aspects of the show (e.g. the main cast are all Caucasian males; certain plots; racial stereotypes; etc.) mean that whilst it was fine for the 1980's, you would have great difficulty getting any network to show it on TV in the 21st centaury. Certainly not on a children's channel!

[@comicfan1324]

I feel like this video was more of a comparison of the set history rather than actually giving evidence for whether or not tugs and Thomas are set in the Same universe. There were some points brought up just before the conclusion, but beyond that it was more of a comparison of the directorial choices in the series

[@elsbridgestudios1885]

Well, technically yes that is what I have done. However seeing as it has influenced my decision and the evidence I mentioned is affected by it then I decided to include all this information.

[@ryanfuller912]

Thomas and TUGS have got to be in the same universe, I mean hello? Same director same composers and they both feature railways, and they both mention the “Regatta”. And TUGS and Thomas both have the Marklin engine, surely all engines on Sodor have faces but maybe there are a few that don’t, and it helps make it feel more like a real place until Tragic Failroad came along. Whoa, did I really just say “Tragic Failroad”?

[@zyronalexx]

I'd like to think so... just a sea separating

[@JonAschenbrenner]

I agree. No matter what, Thomas and TUGS are in the same universe.

[@Ben31337l]

There are certain differences in the shows, but that's probably because they were forced.

[@ryancampbell4119]

The way you bridge them together is with one ocean liner at the docks and with big Mickey being bought after the episode munitions

[@JonAschenbrenner]

@@Ben31337l I don't get it.

[@chavopatyfanstudios2005]

I don't think so

[@GeneralLeeStudiosBrian]

Warrior and Sunshine are Percy in a sense?

[@dougsfilmtv9810]

I will say they are in the same universe because Big Mickey has a face in the show. If I saw a revived series of Thomas and Friends, I would like it if they brought back TUGS in the Thomas universe and imagine character dynamics and the crossovers.

[@paulborri]

They must have introduced Big Mickey in season 21 because of fan suggestions.

[@savvadance7006]

I think Tugs Is the same universe as Postman Pat

[@savvadance7006]

No Tugs and Postman Pat are in the same universe.

[@williamgorman6433]

Are we going to forget about Big Mickey and how he was named in the thomas and friends show or is that going to be overlooked because in tugs Big Mickeuy dies on screen and Ten cents and OJ talk about it, so does that mean he died and was reincarnated on sodor or was he fished out and sold for parts to the growing Brandom harbor

[@gothnerd887]

There's some dialogue that was cut from some versions of the episode where the narrator explains that going underwater shielded Big Mickey from the explosions

[@ryancampbell4119]

@@gothnerd887plus he could have been salvaged and restored and bought for the docks

[@flyingscottproductions1937]

I actually like tugs in the same universe one it could make for a new location like a big city port on Sodor and their british accent and it makes for good story telling

[@Ben31337l]

Honestly, the way you'd connect Bigg city port with Sodor, is with a transatlantic liner. That would be an entirely different show altogether.

[@jamesthomas5109]

11:16 Anyone know where I can find this full song?

[@thefatcontrollershat]

10:30 What about Ned?

[@Clouddor63852]

Warrior is Richard

[@grahamdamberger7130]

Maybe when we reach the first Thomas season's 50th anniversary, someone will do a remake of the series that goes back to basing it off the Railway Series stories, and will find a way to make TUGS fit into the universe that also includes Jack and the Pack. Maybe have cameos from characters in other British shows like Postman Pat.

[@elsbridgestudios1885]

We can only hope!

[@Ben31337l]

@@elsbridgestudios1885 I personally disagree that with the way Victor Tanzig combined the TUGS with Thomas & friends. Personally, I wish a new show would be created featuring ocean liners to properly flesh out the universe and put a spotlight on more places, themes and characters...

[@rylanthibodeau8206]

I say no I mean if it was in the same universe a lot of people do not know the show Tugs: I'm a big fan of Thomas and friends

[@liamconnollyst]

I sometimes agree that these 2 might connect with each other not quite the way as expected knowing there's fewer connections between the two.

[@jimmymccartney2049]

Thomas & Friends(1984-2003)/Tugs(1989)

[@JackBradshaw-wj5nb]

I saw a picture of this at school when I was in year 9 in the year 10 classroom

[@JoseLopez-tk1qt]

Did you know that puffs is an e2 tank engine the same for thomas he is an e2 tank engine

[@A1-Pacific_Sketcher]

I don't believe so, each show has its different set of rules and principals David Mitton and Bob Cardona specifically wanted to be different for Tugs compared to Thomas

[@elsbridgestudios1885]

Whilst I agree with what you are saying, my belief is that despite Mitton & Cardona's best efforts to keep the two shows separate entities they have inadvertently and unintentionally inserted both shows into each-other (At least partially). However as I said at the end of the video, whilst that is my opinion, it's not a proven fact. If you wish to believe that Thomas & Tugs aren't connected then that is your choice and I respect that. This video is just to show the similarities and differences between the Thomas and Tugs so that others have all the necessary information to reach their own conclusions.

[@ryancampbell4119]

I think the only reason why Mitton went through so much effort to keep the shows separate was because of the copyright of Thomas the tank engine.

[@hamishcameron1082]

Well actually James’s counterpart would be both mr Burke and eddie and arry and bert’s counterparts would be both zak and zebedee zip and zugs counter part would be splatter and dodge and as for edwards counter part his counterpart would be the garbage corporation and henrys counter part would be both frank and fire tug all though who fire tugs counterpart would be would be flynn the fire engine🇬🇧

[@TheEldritchHyena]

I really hate it when people headcanon Thomas & TUGS to be in the same universe. TUGS clearly has different rules of sentience compared to Thomas, if they were in the same universe the steam engines in TUGS would have faces and not just talk through disembodied megaphones. Not to mention the character's faces in TUGS are a completely different style than in Thomas, their features are more angular and their faces are a beige color instead of gray. I'm sorry, but there's just too many inconsistencies and stretches in logic between the two shows for me to be okay with them being the same universe. Just my two cents.

[@UA-51]

The only thing the two have a connection with is David Mitton the director

[@UA-51]

The only thing the two have a connection with is David Mitton the director

[@GreatGlynndon]

What if you had different laws for sentient vehicles?

[@SaigeErasmus]

​@@UA-51And Mike O'Donnell as well Junior Campbell as the composers

[@greatwestern57]

Yeah but big Mickey is confirmed to be in thomas and City of Truro is faceless

[@SudrianShenanigans]

The whole thing about Britt hating/trying to sue TUGS is actually a fandom fabrication, and a huge one at that. She's been asked a few times on Facebook and has repeatedly stated that she had no ill will towards Mitton's creation, and has consistently stated that she's saddened by these accusations. A more minor thing is that TUGS isn't really in the '20s, as if you look at a lot of the background props and "Munitions" as a whole, there's a lot of designs from the late 1930's, especially 1937 in specific (the scrapped Diesel plotline, the White Yacht prop, several of the automotives, a straight-up U-Boat in one of the TUGS annuals, and the high presence of the Navy). The video as a whole was decent despite these points.

[@elsbridgestudios1885]

If that is true and Allcroft really had no ill will towards Tugs, then it makes the failed merger of the two shows even more confusing. If she had no ill will towards Tugs then who did prevent the merger? And more importantly, why? Although is does explain why she was willing to let Mitton, O'Donnell & Campbell amongst others back after leaving to create Tugs.

[@SudrianShenanigans]

@@elsbridgestudios1885 My personal guess is they're just two different tones of shows (with the closest TTTE gets to TUGS being Series 5, and by that point it was well out of the public conscious. Additionally, that's a *lot* of characters you suddenly have to introduce all at once: 13 just for the main fleets without any of the backgrounders. Series 3 would have been one of the better times to try, given TUGS was produced in the space between it and Series 2, and they're similar production wise, with a lot more water sets, but it's still really tough to do, as the TUGS props are huge compared to the Gauge 1 engines. It's just tricky to work with (but not impossible, as Kiefer Adams produced an audio story called "Bigg City Thomas" that works as a soft pilot for the idea).

[@elsbridgestudios1885]

@@SudrianShenanigans Well, you've certainly given me a lot to think about. I'll have to make sure I double-check my sources in future.

[@SudrianShenanigans]

@@elsbridgestudios1885 Always a pleasure to help inform.

[@Giovanni_Carlos]

OMG I USE CLIPCHAMP TOO!

[@Silverlink28]

Hercules and Edward are similar in different ways but Edward is more passive and Hercules is more you know not

[@elsbridgestudios1885]

I'll admit these comparisons aren't perfect (They were never going to be) and whilst that difference may be true, at the end of the day they are the character's that have earnt the highest levels of respect.

[@comicfan1324]

I have a bit of an issue with the logic you brought up when trying to claim tags was a factual series in the railway series. Just because the Thomas and friends series within the railway series universe is factual doesn’t mean that the creators can’t go on to make a fictional series later. So although it probably does exist in universe as a TV show, I highly doubt tags takes place in the world of the railway series, as even the television series is questionable when it comes to accuracy with the books

[@elsbridgestudios1885]

Whilst you do make a valid point, and I do agree that my logic isn't perfect, my belief is that in universe Allcroft would have gone to Sodor and hence why she made the TV series. Similarly when Cardona & Mitton left to create their own show they travelled all across America from San Francisco to New York looking for inspiration and chances are that they came across Bigg City whilst doing so. I know there are a few flaws in my logic but at the end of the day, it doesn't matter whether you believe that Thomas & Tugs are in the same universe or not or why you think that as there will always be someone that will challenge it.

[@comicfan1324]

@@elsbridgestudios1885 Fair enough, I think it’s a fine headcanon and I have nothing against the idea of them sharing a world. I just don’t think there’s nearly enough evidence to back up the idea that both Tugs and Thomas are set in the same universe. However, feel free to have your own interpretation

[@firstnamlastnam2141]

With the point of the creators making a fictional series later, Christopher Awdry did so himself, so unless his LOTI books are connected to the RWS somehow, they're also just as much fictional.

[@julyleonard]

My answer to that title is an extremely simple yes.

[@jamesthomas5109]

11:54 I'd go for either Splatter and Dodge or Arry and Bert.

[@andybray9791]

Viktor Tanzig made great parodies, however we don’t see captain Starr and zero unlike TFC

[@ryancampbell4119]

He said in a Q&A the other tug’s characters probably wouldn’t appear unless new models of the were released

[@andybray9791]

@@ryancampbell4119 I meant we haven’t seen them on screen only voice, unlike tfc

[@Silverlink28]

Zorran and diesel are not synonymous characters Zorran becomes softer and more humble over the course of the series diesel never becomes like that

[@elsbridgestudios1885]

I'm not so sure about that. Unlike Diesel, Zorran does show a few moments of common sense but I wouldn't go as far as to say he is humbled by the end. He knows who he can and can't mess with and recognises when siding with the opposition is beneficial for his own gains but he is still a devious schemer. Whilst Diesel may not be like that in the TV series he does slowly start that transition towards the end. And in the Railway Series he is a bit more like Zorran, best example being towards the end of the book 'Thomas & The Evil Diesel'.

[@Silverlink28]

@@elsbridgestudios1885 oh well I was talking about the planned season 2

[@warsthemarvel8608]

Are they in the same universe? You bet your ass they are!

[@christopherbellamy639]

Actually tugs came before Thomas the tank engine and friends

[@levidarling5107]

Sort of… it depends on which canon you go by in the Thomas franchise, be it the Railway Series or the tv show. Now I don’t know tugs a lot so I am okay if I am wrong. 👍

[@mathuasher9184]

There's similarities. But Tugs did enough to distinguish itself as its owns thing. Enjoy them both but I think Trains are cooler than boats. 🚂🚃🚃