Stereo - $10k!!! speaker Dynaudio S5.4 review. How I fine tune my speakers

[@oysteinsoreide4323]

The problem with wow factor is that you get it when you listen to something the first time. The wow factor will always dissapear after listening on a system for a while. So if you are dependent of getting wow factors, you will be cursed to upgrade the system regularly.

[@tylee5291]

I own the 5.4. I owned PSB Goldi before. The metal tweeter on the PSB were harsh. My WOW factor I was looking for was a speaker that brought out fantastic detail with music. The 5.4 did in spades over the Goldi. Having said that, the newer Dynaudios are better, but at a cost. The 5.4s ARE my speaker for life. The DETAIL these speakers have is sick!

[@MrVoayer]

Sincere, honest and well explained review. Well done. Good luck in your quest for the sensation only music can provide.

[@kenmarchlenski4477]

Liked you from the first and you're style is growing on me. Good reviewing!

[@ThomasAndStereo]

I forgot to mention, one of the issue we had is that the speaker did not image as well as we hoped for in a $10k speaker. We were wondering if it had something to do with the room size as maybe I am not giving it enough space to breath. Also, the presentation is really forward due to the resolving tweeter. Bass can get boomy and slow if I have the foam plug off. I keep them on so bass is more tight but I lose a lot of punch. Sound Demo : kzbin.info/www/bejne/bnjXhIeiorqYfaM&lc=UgyhLdppM6pcR-XNI794AaABAg In short, the contour is one notch above the focus series in terms of realism, just the focus is more pleasant to my ears.

[@iwng54]

I just watch a video by Paul McGowan. He said that the TV could be the culprit. The glass on your TV is very reflective.

[@hazzy9079]

Could you consider giving space of about 3 feet from the wall or curtain? Their acoustic center is too close to the objects on the sides. I was facing such problems as i mentioned before. Not till i gave them the space to breathe on their sides.

[@chrisvinicombe9947]

I Wng yeah Paul's a useful chap. It's an inexpensive thing to try too , wich is nice

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Yeah, we tried moving it. Its ok the imaging just not excellent for a $10k speaker.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Yeah, in actual use the speakers are more pull out from the tv, just during the filming it was push behind.

[@donbustoarigato2997]

Very honest review! Interesting categorization of "listeners". Of course, I believe level four listeners are nuts. LIVE music does NOT allow one to hear a singer's lips nor should YOU want to hear them, time for the men in white coats to visit you, lol! Music reproduction is the GOAL! Period. Is it "musical", can you hear a piano that sounds like a grand piano. Is the tone there, can you hear the room, can you close your eyes and feel the pianist moving across the keyboard and the strings resonating and being damped. This is perhaps not just level two or maybe all of three, but it is definitely not four. The problem, I find, is that I really believe that if you DO NOT have a MUSICAL EAR, it doesn't matter HOW MUCH you can hear, because you are not hearing "music". You cannot see the score, anticipate the next move of the bow across the strings, tell if they are in tune. If the singer is slightly off key or a tad raspy. The EAR, one's ear is paramount, but not just the "ear", the musical ear. The ear that can hear a tune, pick up an instrument and bang it out, then refine and add to it. A system that allows that IS the system! lol My two cents, of course.

[@yasenpen]

I have those speakers and I do not find the tweeter too bright. No fatigue after 1-2 hours of listening. I also have Focal Solo with beryllium tweeter, and that is a very bright tweeter that makes me tired after 30 minutes. At the same time, Focal Solo have incredible resolution, which is important for studio monitors.

[@jonlarmour8456]

Have you checked out audiovectors line of arrete floorstanders ?. Why is it not standard practice to give speakers accessible attenuation for the tweeter.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

No I have not and yes it would be nice to be able to adjust the tweeter.

[@jonlarmour8456]

@@ThomasAndStereo I dislike a sharp or harsh top end and its not that easy to sort out without crossover tinkering. I prefer a good amt tweeter and the audiovectors do a good job in this area.Their not short on good punchy bass when needed 👍

[@borlach321]

Hi Thomas, have ever compared these to Sonus Faber Olympica Nova II? It is a $10,000 speaker.

[@hatu5798]

Hi Thomas you said the bass can go very low ! And can you fell the low air surrounded? The reason I ask is I have a Focal with two 8 inch woofer, a Revel with one 10 inch woofer, the one 10 inch just on top of the double 8 easily with low air

[@calaf_725]

Hi Thomas, i auditioned these speakers once with Gryphon amplifier and cd player and they were amazing. Unfortunately i did not have any rock/metal music with me so all listening was done with "audiophile" vocal jazz music. I remember they sounded kinda dark but i had never heard human voice so realistic before and i got emotional. This is the reason i own Dynaudio today. I was so blown away by the sound, i knew then and there i wanna have a pair of Dynaudio speakers. I have not auditioned the new Contour series either. I did not pay attention to soundstage at all lol.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Yes, the mid range is really nice and my friend was attracted to it too. Strange it sounded dark, must be the amp?

[@calaf_725]

Hard to say since it was another guys system and the first and only time i listened to it. I will not take an oath but this was my impression. All cables were Synergistic Research, oldish models though. Perhaps the particular combination amp/cd/speakers/cables gave this delicious midrange that sounded also a little darkish to my ears. I loved it anyways lol

[@SpeakerBuilder]

Your problem is you are listening to passive speaker systems where the passive crossover introduces a major impediment to the clarity of the system. But no one is building active systems because of the level of complexity involved. So you have to build your own, starting with top line drivers, satellite boxes can be purchased but the bass boxes will have to be built, and Marchand will sell you an assembled and tested three or four way active electronic crossover, then choose three or four stereo amps to driver the speakers, and you already know about use of high quality interconnects and speaker cables. The other big secret is the large vented alignment bass speakers (12 inch drivers in 3 cu ft boxes) in separate boxes that are located in the room independently of the satellites in order to achieve (nearly) flat bass response at the listening position. And you will have to use an RTA or the REW software to correctly balance the system, and then listen for a few weeks and tweak the balancing as desired. I boost the bass a few dB and pull the mids back a few dB and leave the highs flat. The reason why you may need to tweak from flat response is that most music out there has been mixed on passive speakers and so you introduce clarity in the playback that was unheard of (pun intended) by the mix/mastering engineers. Now you will have WOW factor.

[@DonLee480]

I’ve owned the Dynaudio C4 Signatures and are one of my favorite speakers I have had the pleasure owning. They need space to breathe and some room treatment. Imaging was phenomenal and soundstage was huge!

[@ThomasAndStereo]

C4, my dream speaker....one day.

[@alichan8774]

I have just started to understand how critical a good component are and the proper set up. Thanks to your in-depth analysis. Do you advertise those speakers and components that you decided to sell?

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Yes, I go by turbotan on canuck.

[@freekwo7772]

Dynaudio requiers toe-in but if it sound harsh then toe-out a bit - not straight firing.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

After playing with the cables, I got it to sound just perfect for the brightness. I do toe in but for the video, it was not position correctly because I was actually listening to another pair of speakers.

[@freekwo7772]

Thomas & Stereo yes but valve amp and dynaudio are not good match. Aluminum voice coil has more coils and that's why draws more power - almost all dyns should be classified as 4 ohm. Their ohm curve is jumping alot and that's something that doesn't fit valve amps. Try upper range of sonus or proac

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Oh, good to know. Thanks.

[@bugpack6]

Great video and detail descriptions. Thanks again.

[@fredfungalspore]

Do it yourself xlr cables and plugs you mentioned what brand are you using I do not have the dollars that some manufacturers are asking for ready mades. I would like try making my own.I am interested in your impressions and views on speakers that I can can only dream of owning ..PS what do you think of the high end Jamo speakers 🤔..I have Concert 11s very underrated speaker company. 📢 🎵🎶🎵

[@wojciechczupta]

Thomas, look at a device from MiniDSP called SHD Studio. It probably won't generate chest slam, nor make these speaker fast, but it will make them sound more relaxed and it will fix your room base issues

[@halitimes2]

How about looking at the Focal Sopra no2? Coming on to the second hand market at fairly reasonable prices now. I know you are a Focal fan. Im tempted to demo them against my Audio Physic Avantis.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

You are still looking at $10k to $12k in the used market last time I checked. Maybe they dropped to $8 to $9k now and that is still above what I am willing to spend on a pair of speakers. The Sopra 2 is one of those speaker that left a strong impression on me and it was paired with a mcintosh setup.

[@metnoc10]

30 pairs, you sure you don't need to slow down? Let me tell you a little bit about my experience about chasing upgrades. Ive started to take it real slow when it comes to upgrades, only buying when my thoughts have really "settled down". Usually I read forums, audition, listen to friends systems, digress the impressions, and go through the process again. Only when my thoughts stops varying and I start to consider getting an upgrade. This has served me well, Ive went from making to hasty decisions to utterly considered ones, and now I almost all the time get it right. Ive actually for the first time am quite pleased with my stereo's tonality. Ive come to a place where I enjoy the hobby more than ever, Ive disciplined myself to have a more healthy approach to upgrades. Spending less by making fewer mistakes, and still getting better sounding stereo. This hobby is so much about emotions, when I started to relax a little bit more and came in touch about how I felt, rather than being too much in my head. I started to make better decisions about upgrades. If you are stressed about it or chasing it too hard, its more likely that will end up with something thats not really for you.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Thanks for the advice and taking the time to write such a long response. I do have my final system built already and now is just buying stuff that are very specific to test and hoping for a miracle. Fortunately, in the used market, I can buy and sell and most of the stuff I get, it's like I try them for free. So I usually am not too worry if I get something I don't like. Having said that, it's a bit ridiculous what I am doing even if get to try all this for free and I should slow down and listen. I do listen almost every night but I am listening to the speakers instead of the music :(

[@zemansk7888]

Hi Thomas, can you tame the speaker’s brightness using the ifi tube2? Hope you can answer my question before I decide to make a purchase. I’m really itching to get one. Thanks! PS Also, I’m still waiting for your review on the tube2 as you mentioned in your previous video.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

The ifi tube2 will tame the brightness maybe by 5%. It rounds the edges a bit and if you engage bass boast, it will further lower the sharpness. However, it's not a miracle gear so it's ok to use it if you find your system just a bit bright. The difference is subtle but noticeable.

[@AndyBHome]

Maybe this channel should have a companion channel: Pinpointing the Law of Diminishing Returns in Hifi. You could review and classify all sorts of equipment in terms of how close they get to the sweet spot of diminishing returns - where the quality stops improving rapidly but the prices keep climbing steadily or rapidly.

[@bowiefan6652]

Good point! I'm a firm believer that with music if it sounds right, then it is right; as evidenced by my incredibly modest (sub £2,000) Marantz system. Which plays music that sounds divine to my old ears. This audiophile malarkey of constantly spending vast amounts of money in a fruitless search for the unattainable, just seems pointless. So-called audiophiles, need to stop listening to the system, and instead just enjoy the music!

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Good idea but no time! Maybe I can touch on it here and there in some of the videos. I have a very different view on law of diminishing return too so it would make an interesting video.

[@Rayradityaa]

I wanna know whic better dynaudio focus 160/220 or spendor s8e for your taste?

[@ThomasAndStereo]

It's a hard tie. I might like the Spendor more but have never heard the 220. The focus 160 is a bit more exciting but I like how the S8e is balanced.

[@FlemmingDP]

Hi Thomas , thank you for making all those nice videos. I don't know , but have you thought about Magico A3 or B&W 803D3 or 802D3 ,, Wilson Audio Sabrina ? Your loudspeaker cables can also have a big impact on how much information and the perception of the soundstage among other things , but i am sure that you are aware about that.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Thanks! I love to try A3 one day but I don't think the other B&W as I have spent a lot of time with the 803D and have auditioned more than once the 802D since someone who lives like 3 min from my house has a pair. I understand the version 3 should be better but I would think the sound signature is similar. For cables, yeah, I come across so many high end cables, interconnects that cost $3k+ all the time as my friend lends me, speaker cables in the $3k + too so I am no stranger to those. If you seen my $300k system video, that cable was $15k. I however only made one video on high end cable as people go nuts whenever I talk about cables so I kind of avoid it now.

[@FlemmingDP]

Hi Thomas , thanks and yes i do understand your view on making video and talk about cables. I for myself did actually never liked the B&W sound signature , but recently i listened to B&W 802D3 with Accuphase E-650 and cabling was Audioquest , and it was a surprise to me in a positive way. Apart from that i really like to watch you videos , i think you do a great job with them.

[@davidparker4984]

Thomas, thanks for all your videos. I am really enjoying them. I have recently purchased a Primaluna Dialogue Premium Integrated amp with a pair of Focal Electra 1028 be speakers and Kimber cables. Any advice on a sub to add for this setup. Thanks.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Thanks for the feedback! If money is no issue, I was told REL subs are the best. How is the Primaluna with the 1028? I was going to go over my friend's place to try my Elac on his PrimaLuna actually. We were even planning to bring it over to try on the Kanta.

[@abdulmokta48]

Just like studio speakers PMC 5.22 YOU CAN HEAR A PIN DROP SUPER BRIGHT SUPER PRECISE

[@2010aloy]

Hi Thomas, thanks for another gr8 video. When do you plan to review the special 40 and the evoke series?

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Special 40, I was going to make a video but people seem to prefer I talk about budget gear. In short, I think the special 40 has one of the sweetest / best top end I ever heard. If it had better low end, it would have been my end game speaker. I casually heard the evoke at the audio show and it was good. Not conclusive but definitely very good.

[@2010aloy]

@@ThomasAndStereo Not sure if I did the right thing, I ordered the S40 solely going by online reviews including feedback from owners - researching whatever I could find online. I currently have Emit M30 (& KEF R300 at my other apartment) which are quite good actually. I like the dynaudio sound & so I was considering the S40, evoke 30 & the contour 20 to replace the M30 though the pricing more than doubles with each model. I only hope that the S40 equals or betters the M30 in terms of low end though standmounts usually dont have the full range or scale of a floorstander. I should be getting the new pair within a week or so. No option to demo here in the state I live in so had to make a somewhat blind purchase.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Yeah, let me know what you think of the S40. For sure, the top end is fantastic. It's the lower end I wish it had more power. But, pair it with a sub and it will solve your problem.

[@2010aloy]

@@ThomasAndStereo Sure thing, will let you know after some listening sessions :)

[@allasaurous2738]

is the song any good ?

[@mikeleahy5283]

Thomas,think you should have ordered the focus tower because you like that tweeter . Listening fatigue will kill a speaker longterm listening. More expensive is not always better. And there will always be trade off. I am building a set of DYI bookshelf speakers with soft domes scan speak tweeters and seal woofers. Because of that vary reason I like scan speak tweeters,soft dome.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Well after fine tuning the dynaudio, there is no more listening fatigue, less bright than my friend Focal actually. The sense of realism is very very good with these. Just not my cup of tea. Although I prefer softdome, I appreciate the strength for metal dome tweeters too. Will talk about it in my dynaudio 160 vs KEF LS50 video.

[@johnvalatos4073]

Great video. So your quest continues. Thomas what can you try if your speakers are known to be tiring after listening to them for a long period. They sound great at the start but after 30 to 60 mins they become tiring. What causes this and can you do things to fix this issue?

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Usually, bright speakers have that characteristics. You either solve it by cables or getting an amp that will give it enough power so the low end bass comes out covering the sharp treble. What speakers and what amp you have?

[@johnvalatos4073]

They probably are bright. The amp is a Yamaha RX-V692 AV Receiver the speakers are Richter Wizard II speakers you most like don't know these speakers and they are a double decades old. The speakers are a 3-way design with according to the specs. a 25mm ferro fluid cooled, elliptical textile dome tweeter, they are 4Ohm, 90dB/watt, rated for max 125Watts and go down to 44Hz. I was looking at a higher powered amp like 400W at 4 Ohms and a preamp something like the Marantz AV7005. What would you recommend for an amp/preamp and which reasonably priced cable/interconnects for bright speakers?

[@ThomasAndStereo]

If you have a AV receiver, can you turn down the treble. Now, it will be difficult to get used to in the beginning but if you can tolerate a few hours of listening, then you know that is the problem. These are 90db speakers so I don't think watt is the problem. I don;'t know that preamp but Marantz are supposed to be warm sounding.

[@mitoda]

Have you considered reviewing Golden Ear Triton's? as a Focus 160 owner, I own a pair of Triton 2+, they resemble your description of the S5.4. The Golden Ear Ribbon tweeters are revealing without being harsh. Sound imaging is also enormous, I think they are often overlooked speakers, but are great for the money (3k).

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Its one of the top speaker I want to try actually. What are you driving yours with? I ask because someone I met has a pair and he said if you treat it like a high end speaker and use very good frontend with it, it is amazing.

[@mitoda]

@@ThomasAndStereo I drive them with Marantz PM7005 which is enough. Their sub-woofer drivers are active, so the amp is only driving the ribbon tweeters and mid drives. Can't wait for your opinion on these guys.

[@pinkrangerdaddy3174]

Man watching back your 3 years old video finding out you have some love for the dyns. Its funny I started getting into hifi thru car hifi, dyns and dls if you heard of them, they used to make very good 100-150 bucks 3inch dome midrange, both of them was the whole reason I get into this wallet draining hobby. I had Dyns in my car and at home for many years, they are very neutral to my ears. Then started following your channel this year and you got me into the whole “color” game, thinking of the horn loaded klipsch heresy to match the Cayin I got watching your review. unfortunately the nearest dealer is some distance from me and with the covid and all that its gonna be awhile until we can travel, really cant wait to hear how they sound. I noticed in one of your video at the home of one of your audiophiles clan, there is a heresy in the background, ever heard of how they sounded? Were they like focal bright or even brighter? Thanks.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Heresy? So long ago that I don't remember, I am curious though if it will still sound bright in my room. I know I had an old klispch before but forgot which model.

[@bagelhunk]

What’s stopping you from checking out the floor stand focus range? That might be what you are looking for since you enjoy the focus 160.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Well I heard the Special 40 and there is enough gap between that and the Focus 160 that I might look for the C series instead. I will still pick up a focus series if I come across one with a good price.

[@mrpositronia]

Hi Thomas. I bought the Tannoy Revolution XT6f for £699. A great bargain. The overall description of your Dynaudio's sound is similar to the Tannoys. They have a rich mid range which helps rock music, and a weighty bottom end, but controlled. There is real weight and timbre to woody instruments in particular. They haven't broken in yet, so I can't give any definitive opinions.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

I am so curious about those speakers, I am grabbing a pair if I come across them at a good price. Keep me updated :)

[@oysteinsoreide4323]

it has a spike in the 2k-5k area, and that is not where you want a spike. It looks more like a studio monitor frequency response, because they often has spikes in that area so it is easy to hear trouble in the treble.

[@hamidnia7242]

For more revealing speakers I’ll add a tube component in the chain, either tube amp or tube pre amp. It usually balances out. Regardless of frequency response, adding a sub will smooth out the high mid as well That’s what I would do

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Yup, I have a tube preamps too.

[@stevenbullock9276]

Very interesting, well-presented review. Thank you. Happened upon this as a gentleman I know has a set for sale locally. Nice amp choice- had two 352s over the years and miss them both. Regards, Steven

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Thanks Steven, love the 352 myself and I too miss it after selling it.

[@Grizzly1644]

Go high efficiency!!! Lots of detail, dynamics and power accuracy

[@vicg5323]

Thomas I went to the Hi End in Munich and most vendors used Wilson Sophia they were awesome with heart pounding base at 15k but the speaker I lusted for were Vandersteen Carbon at 30K. They had the breath thing your nephew spoke of. It was truly unnerving. Speakers from 150 to 1.5 million did not move me sonically although they hand bling for sure.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Nice, thanks for sharing ! Now just need to win the lottery to get those $30k speakers.

[@jr-nb6mj]

Interesting pre-story. It's dangerous to listen to very high-end speakers like your friends $70k because then you know how good speakers can be and it will be harder to find something you will be happy with. The 5.4 are beautiful, i'm very interested in their bookshelf in same series, 1.4. It's a shame about the tweeter being to bright. On the cheaper series, x12, focus 140 the tweeter is such a enjoyable and relaxing so i thought that would carried on in more expensive series. Interesting division of audiophiles. I also find myself being in group two. I was impressed by the LS50, but they was not for me. Imaging was excellent, but the midrange/tweeter was way to aggressive/forward for my taste. Imo a non-fatigue tweeter is the most important.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

In that sense, the Focus does a better job being not fatiguing.

[@andrewcrain5461]

Love your video's thanks Thomas

[@mcjonner]

I enjoy your style of breakdown of speakers

[@allanauyeung]

Thomas, what about the Focal Kanta? I thought you liked it so much or you are still searching for something better?

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Focal Kanta is very nice but they are new to the market and I can't afford it :(

[@allanauyeung]

isn't the Kanta in the same price range as the Dynaudio? Is the review for the Kanta still coming?

[@ThomasAndStereo]

The Kanta is new so I can't find it in the used market and its about $2k more than the S5.4. The S5.4, i got it used so I paid used price which is more than 50% off compare to the Kanta. The Kanta, I am going to assume you saw the video I did on it right? The problem now is my friend just bought a Mcintosh Mc452 for it and we need to spend time using it with the 452 before we can make a review. With the current setup, its not much different compare to when I did the video except it sounded a bit better after 50 hours break in.

[@allanauyeung]

I am thinking about getting the Focal Kanta, Magico A3 or the Revel F228be. I was looking forward to your review. Unlike reviews from Stereophile, you also tell us the bad things about the product. Keep up the good work!

[@suzigti92]

Give them a long break in period. 80-120 hours minimum. That may help balance and correct, both the high and low end issues.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

They have a few hundred hours on them as I bought them used. The high is actually its strength after I adjust it. The sense of realism is top notch. The low, goes really low, just not punchy but its better than a lot of speakers, just for $10k, I wanted more.

[@thomasstedtenfeldt5051]

I’m just curious. Have you let them burn in?

[@rig4365]

Thomas Stedtenfeldt You might be correct. They may need to be run for quite awhile before they break in.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

I bought them used and had the same feeling that maybe that they are not burned in. The original owner assured me they are.

[@thomas21000]

Have you ever listened to JBL Synthesis speakers ? They might suit your taste and what you are looking for.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Never heard any JBL actually. One day.

[@ej20tscully]

I've had a pair of these for 14 years. I don't find them bright at all! The bass can get a bit slow and bloaty compared to other Dynaudio models. The Confidence range is far superior to the old Contour S range with the C2 the pick of the bunch and I'ts not that much more than the 5.4's. Thanks for the upload! Keep them coming.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Maybe the amp you were using? When I paired it with the classe monoblocs, they were not bright. You are so right about the bass being slow and bloaty, forgot to mention that. So I keep the foam plug on in an effort to keep it tight...but I lose power. One day...C4...if I win the lottery or sell my liver...

[@toucheslapper]

Thomas & Stereo - C2 and C4 can be had very cheap used. I’ve seen C2’s sit on the market at $6-7k numerous times. Now that new Confidence is releasing at the end of the year, the prices on the old stuff will drop even more.

[@ej20tscully]

Hi Thomas, Plinius amps team up well with Dynaudio. If you liked the Focus 160, I strongly recommend the C1 to you. Extremely coherent and balanced Speaker but don't skimp on the amp. My 5.4's are way easier to drive over my C1 Platinum.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Will keep my eyes open for them.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

I have a Mcintosh C352 so hopefully its enough power. If not, my bel canto at 1000w should be. I was hoping to get at least a C2 as bookshelf speakers, no matter how good they are, can benefit a bit from bass boast.

[@roymindmybusiness6908]

Great review Thomas I think i will be saving my money -I usually prefer sealed bass speakers so had doubts if i would like these . it appears your room is a little small for larger rear ported speakers -as a rule a metre is usually the minimum to the rear wall otherwise both imaging and bass shall i say definition can be adversely affected . I was going to say more but the world cup is on so will save it for another day -just quickly the great Canadian speakers Mirage M1 and M3 sci that i owned are rear ported and there bass was very enjoyable -but 1.5 metres from the rear wall the speakers were invisible in my setup and people were blown away with the sound stage etc

[@ThomasAndStereo]

usually I pulll it out more when I listen, just the video showed it too closed to the back. Mirage? Interesting, I did not consider them thinking Mirage are entry level, will look into it.Thanks for the recommendation.

[@FELIXXIA]

Why did they put the tweeter down there? Does it affect the sound stage?

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Yeah, we were wondering too. You get used to it after a while and forget they are down there. Some of my friends were guessing with the bass woofer on top, it reduces standing wave? No idea....

[@Romerosays]

Speaker companies are running out of ideas, mostly just gimmicks now

[@hazzy9079]

I think they were just trying to be creative and innovative in new speaker designs which could intrigue curious ones. But lately the newer Dynaudio models are back to top tweeters or center

[@duggiefresh8170]

Dynaudio makes excellent stuff.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Yup and I also have the Old Compound 4 which sounds great.

[@duggiefresh8170]

@@ThomasAndStereo always quality presentations from you. Thank you. Man I want those new Dyn 60i speakers..

[@bagelhunk]

Any link for the silver cables?

[@ThomasAndStereo]

The DIY ones? He post on canuckaudiomart from time to time but not for now. It's white and he is in quebec.

[@John8910]

Please test the golden ear triton one speakers. I want a real test on those speakers!

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Those are quite interesting with with built in 1600w amp. Those will shake the house and not cheap at $6k. If I ever come across one at a good deal...

[@richardriley4415]

I have would like to know more about your McIntosh amp.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

kzbin.info?o=U&video_id=NkEgmL58t1g

[@richardriley4415]

This link is not working for me.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/hJyomKCCap2nZ8k

[@richardriley4415]

Thanks. I'm considering the ma 8900'

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Nice! I almost bought that or the 7900..i forgot. Really like McIntosh sound.

[@pharoahamunra]

I think you said 30 pairs of speakers. the money you have put into that. you could have probably got the Raidho. those Dynaudio speakers look upside down haha.i realize they are not.

[@mijaresk2007]

I need a pair to speakers and 1 amp. what do you recommend me ? my budget is $500 dlls ..thanks

[@ThomasAndStereo]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/pn_bgIhmebl_d68&lc=UgzjemoBuaApqSG6yCZ4AaABAg go to that video and check out my chat with Hari Prasad

[@sudd3660]

thank for this video, i like your thoughts and experience on hifi. i am pretty sure i would like those Dynaudio. i would always add subwoofer, in your prive range add 2. stereo sub for example.. im pretty sure you can then fine tune the bottom end pretty easy. there is a whole nother dimension to music with bass to 20hz flat or close to. 16hz also is a breakpoint for that little extra you never heard before enjoyment of music.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Having a sub definitely is important. I do have multiple sub but the issue here is not that it cannot reach low, rather, it lacks punch. Thanks for sharing.

[@Stingray2201]

If you can find some Rockport Atria, you may want to try them. From published measurements, they measure great. I know their driver and cabinet technology is top notch. And here is comment from a online review: "One of the nice benefits of the Atrias low noise floor is that playing at low levels is a breeze. The Atria does not need a lot of volume to "come alive". If you think about it, this has been a trait of low noise speakers throughout history. Think of the original Quads--a speaker with radically lower noise than dynamics of the day. They could be enjoyed at very modest volume levels, and never provoked a desire to turn them up. The Atrias are similar in this respect."

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Heard some at the audio show and yeah, you are talking about the big leagues now.

[@adameloadamelo9111]

in this price range Avangarde Acoustic Uno G2 will be avaliable. They are awesome. Have them for lat 9 years. they are semi active and go as low as 20Hz!!! You can fine tune them, and can paly in rooms as little as 16m2.YOU HAVE to TRY THEM

[@ThomasAndStereo]

I remember listening to a pair of Avangarde and am a big fan of horn speakers. I remember they were crazy expensive.

[@adameloadamelo9111]

Thomas & Stereo You right they go for hundreds of thousands.... but AA Unos are cheaper:) I know you have a shop in Toronto , Audio Corner...that distributes them..... Also they have 103db sensitivity!!! Very easy to drive....good luck

[@rodf4740]

Has anyone listened to the Dynaudio Evoke 50 vs the Gresham Avant Garde, How do they compare?

[@elderinmoi1571]

Totally get what you were talking about even when I never heard these speakers. Good job. Try Sonus Faber Olympica 3.Should fit well in your system.

[@duggiefresh8170]

Dyn > Sonus

[@shomesaha]

I heard the Dynaudio C1 with Audio research gear ... they are like studio monitors and very neutral and analytical. This is the characteristics of the dynaudio speakers i guess. Also i found them to lack dynamics and pretty slow... I think dynamics are essential for emotional connect than anything else . Since then I moved to Full-rangers called Rethm Speakers (Made in india) with ZOTL amplifiers . They are very open sounding speakers with lot of dynamics.The emotional connect is at a different level.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Cool, let me read up on those. ZOTL? which model?

[@shomesaha]

Thomas & Stereo . I am using a 1w amplifier mz2 from linear tube audio as my speakers are super efficient..David Berning the designer , also makes custom designs which may suit your needs over LTA products.LTA has licensed and upgraded some of Davids's older designs...good luck.

[@m.9243]

Interesting review of these speakers. It would be even more interesting if you gave us a 'live' demonstration of what they sound like on video. A question of curiosity, I have spotted in some of your videos an Audio Research preamplifier in the background. Why on earth would you use a Marantz preamplifier when you have an A.R. available. There's simply no comparison between these two in the pre amp field, Audio Research are almost as good as it gets IMHO, even their entry level products. ( ..is that an LS2 B in the background?..) ...anyway,.. coming back to speakers, Dynaudio are true to Scandinavian understanding and implementation of sound reproduction, i.e. extremely detailed, cool, ..no .. make that cold,.... and although they will give every ounce of information on a recording, I have never been convinced that they play *music* as an event that entertains and not just informs the listener. Many people (hard core audiophiles..) like that approach, others don't. The late Peter Walker (founder and designer of Quad electronics) is on record saying: "...music should be enjoyed, not suffered.." I am a firm believer of this principle Thomas.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

I had the AR sp8, ls16 and they are ok. I spend a lot of time with the ref40 too and that is phenomenal. However, preamps from other companies have caught up now. In fact the ls16 is one of my weaker tube preamp compare to modern preamps when pair with certain setup. It's really a question of synergy.

[@SaraNZW]

You need a room correction, and if you feel that you need a tone control is something wrong.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Well for other speakers, I don't feel I need a tone control so I think the room is not that 'off'. Only these S5.4 were the exception.

[@BadMonkeyFinger_Audio]

Are those Dynaudios simply too big for the room? Maybe that's part of why they're not putting out what you feel they should. I don't know - just speculation.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

I think they are. My room is too narrow for it.

[@jamiet74]

Love your videos and your passion for audio shines through in each one!. But you may need to step back and just start enjoying your music and system for a while instead of continually upgrading - years can go by quickly and one day you wake up and realize that you have not just relaxed and enjoyed your (many!!) very capable systems due to overanalyzing and overthinking every minute detail, not to mention the tens of thousands of $$$'s that are lost on the "Upgraditis" merry-go-round. Good luck with your journey

[@ThomasAndStereo]

What a great advice from the heart and it really touches me, thank you. I have slow down a lot now, I am very selective what I bring home now and I actually have finished building my final system. I was trying other stuff hoping for a miracle. Fortunately, I do listen to my system almost every night so I am enjoying it. The best part, with all the buying and selling, I am actually probably breaking even or slightly ahead :) But putting that aside, I know deep down what you say is true.

[@BadMonkeyFinger_Audio]

@@ThomasAndStereo First off - don't feel bad about it! We all go through it. I've gone through it myself. At one point, i lost track of WHY i was trying to achieve 'perfect' sound, and totally forgot that it was all to enjoy the music! Once i had that epiphany, I stopped pursuing 'ultimate fidelity' (whatever that means), and started trying to assemble 'musical' systems (which may not possess ultimate resolution, but can move you in other ways). I still enjoy buying and selling gear to try it out, but instead of doing that and saying X is better than Y, I just appreciate each piece for what it can/ can't do. One more thing: you mention your 'final system'... I've said the same about 20 times! lol It's apparent to me that this will likely be a life-long passion of yours, so 'final system' is a bit of a lofty concept. hahahaha! Again, as I've said before - I enjoy watching your vids. I've been wanting to do the same, but I'm always a little apprehensive of putting my ugly mug on video...Plus, I don't have the deneros to sample/ review the exotic gear you do, so there's that aspect, as well. Keep it up! Lots of people enjoy your channel. Cheers!

[@weeg91]

Or come to the conclusion I and others have come to which is that ultimate quality lay in the hands of whomever made the music. That is, competance makes ap a vast deal of the end-percieved quality and there is very little you (the conumer) can do about it - thats just the way things are. Because classical and jazz require so little prost processing its the reasont they tend to reproduce most naturally in stereo. If you take a properly recorded piece of music, Law of diminshing returns starts at around $300 I'd say for a medium sizedlistening room. Anything more than that is a waste of money and/or purely showing off. Ironicallly, most High end 10k+ systems seen on youtube are demonstrated in tiny rooms. Makes you think if that person has their priorities right? Not at all.. I feel sorry for their spouses.

[@gtrguyinaz]

Just add a HYBRED tube preamp.... I have 20 year old evidence speakers and they still sound perfect.. before I had confidence 5 speakers ..

[@russb3n]

Nice review Thomas and one of my go to songs is Angel by Sarah Mclachlan as well. I can tell instantly if the speaker will give me the dynamics sound I am looking for when playing that song. Also just today I opened my new Dynaudio Special 40 speakers and I will never give these guys up. Oh man want to talk about a KEF LS50 killers but for $3,000 double the price they should I guess. My other bookshelf I been having fun with is the Revel PerformaBe M126Be speakers. Again using them with my Yamaha A-S2100 helps tame any brightness I get from both speakers. I've been going back in fourth with the Sony HAP-Z1ES music server which uses Dual TI Burr-Brown PCM1795 DACs chips and my Oppo 205 which is the ESS Sabre Pro 9038 chips. Both sound really amazing so far. Going to try some other AMPS

[@hazzy9079]

Lu(ky Hey how do you find your sabre dac compared to the burrbrowns? Im guessing the sabre has more detail, dynamics, bites on the highs, clear & punchy bass? While the burr brown has smooth highs, alittle loose bass and less dynamics? Thanks. Im still in search of the most suitable dac for my dyns to sing to my ears.

[@russb3n]

Yeah I would agree with that 100% and I am finding out I like the Sabre 9038 with the Yamaha Dyna Special 40 together. But I think I need about 100 hours or more to break them in. And I was trying to stay away from a sub but I think it would only help that speakers shine even better if I do. Next purchase I want is a PS Audio DS DAC and Memory Player this wont happen tell next year.

[@hazzy9079]

Lu(ky Thanks for your reply. Wow an upgrade to PS Audio dac, i could foresee you would be pleased by such upgrade. I read somewhere someone found a hybrid Class D amp that far surpass your yamaha A-S2100 and Hegel H160. Its the new nad series, Nad C388. Whatmore it is an integrated amp which includes a built-in dac. I find it intriguing as he specifically mentioned your amp, with his experience. Maybe you can check it out if it could save you alot of money and provides a huge upgrade. Yup the special fortys definitely appreciates some burn in time. Probably, it would get softer and sweeter. Hence you might not need to tame the highs anymore. Thats a plus!

[@ThomasAndStereo]

The special 40 are about the same price as the focus 160 and they do sound very good. Definitely better speaker than the LS50. I would however add something to that comparison in my VS video in the future.

[@ghostrecon3214]

Id love for you to check out the SalkSound Exotica 3. I was dreaming of some of his speakers, naturally I checked out the higher end stuff as well. The Exotica 3 has servo controlled subwoofers with Seas Exotic drivers. They are $13,000 though.

[@joeriemortelmans]

Thank you for these reviews, you’re obviously very knowledgeable, but wouldn’t it be easier ( and better ) to add one or two subwoofer(s) ?

[@ThomasAndStereo]

I do have 2 subwoofers but for testing purpose, I did not have them together. Also, adding a sub will be too much bass for these dyn. It's not it lacks bass but lacks punch I only add sub when the low end is missing. For bookshelf, I do use sub. Thanks for the comment.

[@linkeddevices]

Is it upside down?

[@ThomasAndStereo]

no

[@freekwo7772]

Dynaudio has aluminum coil instead copper and it needs really long time to run-in - 300h-500h. I would put a blanket or a curtain to cover tv no matter how far it is. You didn't specify room dimensions and music you like. I would never pair dynaudio with macintosh or valve amp because dyn are power hungry and current hungry. I had dynaudio and focal speakers and it didn't sound harsh/bright. Brightnes always came from electronics. Try MF or Hegel with dyns.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

I bought them used and confirmed with previous owner he has put enough hours on them. Those mcintosh are 350 w @ 4 ohm and my bel canto are 1000w @ 4 ohm. You see, the brightness in this case is a good thing once I adjust it to my taste. The sense of realism from it is second to none. Also, the other dyn was not bright despite using the same electronics so it makes sense these are tune this way. It's a good thing but pain in the butt to fine tune it. I would love to try Hegel and MF. Thanks for the feedback. Love when people share their experience.

[@toucheslapper]

The Contour line in general has always been described as the flatter more laidback line from Dynaudio. Even the new Contour is the same way. McIntosh amps are laidback and flat as well. Therefore, you have a bad combo. Go for the Special 40 if you can live with a bookshelf. It’s the speaker you are looking for. Thank me later.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

I actually have the Focus 160 and it should share same characteristic as the Special 40. I might have been a bit too negative in my review but the S5.4 are definitely better speakers than the focus 160 in terms of realism, grand soundstage. Just that for $10k speaker, my expectations are higher.

[@toucheslapper]

Thomas & Stereo - The special 40 is a different animal than the Focus 160. The 40 is closer to the Confidence C1 than anything....if not better. The 40 has the midrange driver of the C1, but ramped up with many new improvements which is why Dynaudio even states its their best 17 cm driver ever. It has a neo hybrid magnet which only Dyns top drivers get, and the new glass fiber voice coil former which only the newest speakers have. Then they took the already great, almost Esotar level, tweeter from the previous Focus line (same as your 160 tweeter) and made improvements to it that their newest Esotar tweeter has in the newest confidence line that has yet to release. Dynaudio actually took the same exact midrange driver from your Focus 160 and used it in the current lower level Excite x18 when they discontinued Focus due to poor sales. That should show you what they think about that driver. It’s not bad. It’s actually really good, but no where on the level of Special 40 or C1. I’ve owned the Focus 160 and 260’s. Neither one is on the same level as the Special 40 and you won’t find anyone who disagrees. My advice is to do more research into Dynaudio. You can’t just look at retail prices and make assumptions. When they make a “Special” speaker.....you actually get something special for a much lower cost than normal. Read the reviews. You are dabbling in the Contour line which has a love/hate following. You fall in the hate category (not that you hate the speaker, but you get it). They are well known for being flat, laidback, and boring to people who like excitement (speed, tight, dynamic) in their speakers.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Oh goodness, I wished I read your comment before I made my last video because that would be a bad example I used. Oh well, I don't know why your post was held as possible spam. Thanks for sharing and I learn a lot from it. Will research more.

[@hazzy9079]

toucheslapper hey youre that guy who got bitter commenting on dynaudio about their marketing strategy shifted from short & large voice coil to long & small coil/formers, right? No wonder i find you familiar. You gave quite a constructive feedback for us Dynaudio owners to benefit from. Keep the tips coming! Will appreciate them

[@divertiti]

toucheslapper Hey, what are your thoughts on the Focus 380 vs. The new contour, or the special 40?

[@hamidnia7242]

I blow up one Bookshelf dyneAudio and took it to repair shop. He said he can repair it for $100, couple days later he called me and said the woofer cone is strangely large for a bookshelf!! And he was right Even with Emit 20, I got a very good revealing as well as not bad bass

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Wow, now I feel like trying the EMIT and also the EVOKE series.

[@hamidnia7242]

Thomas & Stereo I’ll try to upload a video from that system and add link here

[@hamidnia7242]

Please see the video kzbin.info/www/bejne/q3-3nZSbn6qNjJo

[@dman2523]

@@ThomasAndStereo Hello Thomas thank you for all your videos, very informative and great to hear you being objective. I current have the Focal Aria 936 and I watched your review on the 926. I now think about changing to Dynaudio Evoke 20. After seeing your last review on the Klipsch book shelf speaker and now my mind is twisted... Do you think I will miss the clarity from the Focal changing to Dynaudio? Thanks again for your inspiring videos.

[@riledrive2504]

I think you should have gone with MC452, overall much better amp and the lower noise floor will also help deliver more emotion as the music will emerge from a darker background. Also, I would pair it with Focal Kanta as it is within a similar price range as your Dynaudio, but in my opinion much better speakers. Transparent cables throughout the system will put an end to your tinker disease. I don’t think the deal here is that you are trying to go as close as possible to the 70k system, but rather the deal is that subconsciously you are not happy with yours. I have listened to systems much more expensive than mine, but that will never make me try and match them as I am extremely happy with mine (the system I mentioned above). So just make sure you are happy with what you want and the rest is just enjoying it.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Funny you mentioned the 452, I have one sitting in front of me right now in it's box, my friend with the focal Kanta bought it and had the 452 shipped to my house so I can try it first. It so heavy I can't get it out of the box! Waiting for friends to come over to help me :) We also have transparent cables, ultra level speaker cables and reference level interconnects, I find them very well balance and softer. I have actually my final system already built that I am happy with but just experimenting with other stuff hoping for a miracle. One day I will make a video on my final system and explain the logic of it.

[@riledrive2504]

I know is heavy! It also has a double box and is bolted to a wooden plank! I remember all the details from when I unboxed mine last year. After you have a listen (give it some time to break in), please tell me your opinion on it. When you take it back to your friend also share your opinion on it with Kanta. This is exactly the same setup I have as well. And last, I can’t wait for a video of your own system. Thanks!

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Yeah, its crazy big with the double box. What preamp are you using? He is now shopping for a good preamp. He uses Transparent Ultra mm1 speaker cables. Mcintosh D150 dac. The video of my system will probably be very far down the road , its when I almost finish selling all my gear and finally want to listen to it again.

[@riledrive2504]

I have 3 pre-amps, amongst which D150, C47 and Schiit Freya using balanced Northern Electrics quads, Gungnir Multibit. D150, sweet little DAC/Pre, nothing to talk about here, works well with my MC452/Kantas. C47, preamp section is SUPERB! DAC is so, so. Freya, nice little tube preamp, nothing much to talk about. Gungnir Multibit, military precision multibit r2r DAC. I literally mean it! Pinpoint precision, extremely accurate timing and breathtaking detail while sounding warm. So to answer your question, I use C47 with Gungnir Multibit.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Oh, C47 is a preamp I love to get to go with my MC352, I can't afford the 452 :( so the dac on the C47 is not as good as the D150?

[@zacharydoering313]

Just my two cents as a former dynaudio dealer, dynaudio sounds beat with simaudio gear, never did they sound analytical or flat to me on those, but they were not hyped in one direction tonally either, also T+A gear might be a good choice for them as well. There is a reason Dynaudio pairs with simaudio at shows. Macintosh gear always sounded flat to me and that could be the culprit. Also audience au24e or se cables sound great on them as well as Tara labs. i had an event with dynaudio evidences in my store and sim evolution gear many said it was the best system they ever heard, but it was far from my favorite that we sold as good as it was.That being said Dyns need something like a simaudio to make them shine. Then you will really hear how deep the bass goes and how sweet they revile is on the tweeters. trust me I was playing death metal on them with hardly any fatigue so it was top notch.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Thanks for sharing your experience. I sold the S5.4 to someone and he told me it pairs very well with him simaudio so what you said is spot on. I would have gotten a moon to try with these speaker if I knew. Oh well, next time. Right now, I am playing with a pair of Canton 3.2, any comments?

[@wim1983]

I think it's right that Focus series is more listenable than the Contour series, most reviews reveal that fact too.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

The contour is special and the realism it brings is one notch above the focus series but focus is much more pleasant to listen to.

[@TheMB2333]

I think your thirst for more bass definitely is consistent with your Puma track suit. :)

[@JingoLoBa57]

Please try and find the PMC TWENTY26 or it’s younger release PMC Twenty5.26 @USD$9600 Renowned for soundstage...imaging. Must try if you can 🤠

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Yeah, they are still so expensive even on the used market :(

[@JingoLoBa57]

Thomas & Stereo www.ebay.com/itm/PMC-TWENTY-26-WALNUT-Nussbaum/113105282020?hash=item1a5599a3e4:g:saIAAOSwQFNbCCoY

[@erikduijs2723]

Good grief those are some serious speakers (and amps)! I recently bought Adam A7X's, and even those were a bit more expensive than I planned to spend. (I use them for music production as nearfield monitors though, so obviously different goals) Anyway, very interesting to hear your thoughts and feelings about speakers like this though. You seem to consciously approach the whole subject of speakers and such as something highly subjective, which I think is the right approach for choosing speakers to just enjoy music. Personally I'd look into serious acoustic treatment of my listening environment before spending this kind of money on gear. Not saying you don't though (difficult to tell from the video).

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Thanks for the comment, yeah treating my room is something on my list to do. Speaker evaluation is subjective so I usually just highlight the strength and weakness as oppose to going into detail.

[@boseandfriends9284]

I never like to see the tweeter on the bottom and the bass on top .good review THOMAS

[@freekwo7772]

Mcintosh and Sonus Faber are in the same group and you should try something from SF then...

[@ThomasAndStereo]

I had the sonus faber toy before, very different kind of sound. Was a bit too rolled off for me.

[@freekwo7772]

Thomas & Stereo Toy is too cheap for mcintosh - venere is the starting point I think ... great top end - one the best If you like violin. Then there is Franco Sberlin speakers from founder of SF which he startwd when he sold SF. If you like classical music, there are few better then sonus IMO.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Oh no, now you got me curious, time to hunt for SF.

[@MrSeriouslynot]

How much of a lost do you take by keep swapping out speakers and gear like this? Unless you are getting everything on a loan.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Actually, I probably am breaking even...I only buy when it's a good deal so I can resell around same price or a bit of loss or gain sometimes. The bad part is when I buy something defective, that is when I lose big but overall pretty even.

[@davidparker4984]

Sorry. There was a typo. I should have typed 1008be not 1028be. How would the Rel work them? Also, the 1008s with the Primaluna sound terrific. They replaced an aging pair of Thiel cs2s.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Do you have a preout on the PrimaLuna? If yes, it should work.

[@davidparker4984]

Thomas & Stereo Yes, there is a mono out for a sub. Thanks for your advice.

[@davidparker4984]

Thomas, I just picked up REL 218 sub and it has made a major improvement in my system. Thanks again for your advice.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

That is an amazing sub. I expect you can fine tune it to merge seamlessly with your speakers. Make sure you maximize it's potential. Do the subwoofer crawl technique too if you have not done it. It should be night and day if you can get it perfectly. Well, its already has made a major improvement so really happy for you.

[@davidparker4984]

Thomas & Stereo Thanks for all your help and guidance. I look forward to many more of your videos.

[@The-Crazy-Coonass]

i miss my dynaudios i had in my car

[@larryhazelwood5491]

Look for a pair of vintage technics sb-9500 or sb-m1

[@carlosoliveira-rc2xt]

I believe you are mistaken concerning the weight of the speakers as you stated 70kg each.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Yeah, they are about 70kg together with the box.

[@Montreal_Audio_Systems]

Come review my JBL L300 all vintage system and feel the warm deep and punchy 136a Alnico 15" sub!

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Sure! Got your email, will reply shortly.

[@chrisvinicombe9947]

I've never heard a stereo reproduce singers lips before 😂😂😂 is it sexy?

[@danlu8445]

is your room's size comparable to your friend's($300K) room? From your video, it seems that your friend's room is less cluttered than yours, and better treated. if it's possible, take your speakers to try out in your friend's room you may get totally different experience,.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

My room is no where close to my friend. His is clean and treated. Sadly he lives 6 hours away from me so trying my speakers at his place is not an option. Not to mention moving 2 75kg speakers is no fun at all....:)

[@danlu8445]

have you tried to use 皇帝位 CD to fine-tune​ your speaker's position?

[@ThomasAndStereo]

No, my friend did give me a cd that will play tracks to fine tune my speakers..hmm, I got to find it somewhere.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Asking all my audiophile buddies.

[@blakemakison5296]

I’ll offer you 100 dollars and come move them out of your room if you are that disappointed them. Something about dynaudio has always intrigued me. Do you have experience with their emit or excite lines ?

[@ThomasAndStereo]

No, I only had the Dynaudio compound 2, 3/7, focus 160, contour 2 and the contour S5.4.

[@Rascallucci]

Dynaudio bright? That, I have never heard people say before. If anything the Dynaudio sound tends to be a bit on the laid back side. But, hey different ears hear different things and different people want different sounds I suppose.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Focal are known to be bright but does it mean all focals are bright? I had owned 5 pairs of focal and there was a pair 1027s that is not. Just like having owned 4 pairs of dynaudio, not all of them sound laid back, if any. Is the S5.4 bright? relative to the 60+ speakers I owned yes. Am I the only one hearing that? Nope, my friends did also heard that.

[@peted7619]

Hi Thomas, thanks for sharing your observations in you quest for great audio. I wish you success. I find most speakers today sound bright and flat and it seems that modern high end speakers compress the sound so the quieter sounds are brought forward, by reducing the dynamics. You then end up on a journey where you need to find recordings that sound good on your system, as you realise most of the music you used to enjoy had crap recordings. Happened to me, I used the system less and less as the music that made it shine, took me further away from the music I enjoyed. My advice is keep a few sets of speakers. By your definition I have level 2 and level 3 speakers. L3 sound great with good simple recordings and vocals. I rarely used them now. My old 80s speakers are much more punchy, warm, dynamic and less harsh but most of all forgiving, if the recordings weren’t great. From your vids I think the Harbeth’s are might be worth a look, or maybe the new JBL monitors. Anyway enjoying your journey, keep up with the great vids.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

I heard the Harbeth 30 once and feel that its one of those speaker you can listen to for very long time. I have multiple speakers for the reason you mentioned. Luckily, I like slow songs and those I am able to find good recording from Asia. Even the older recording sounds good on my system now, sure, they might not be as good as the great recordings, but I have come to terms with it and listen to anything that I like. I no longer am bounded by the quality of the recording. Thanks for sharing and writing such a long detail comment, always appreciate hearing from another audiophile.

[@iwng54]

Thanks a lot for this review. I have read a lot of good reviews on Dynadio speakers but i feel that i am in the same "category" of audiophile like you (group 2). I've had similar experience with Quad / ATC speakers. Some speakers are just built for classical music. However i have only listened to classical music like 0.1% of the times for the past 30 years.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

They are good these Dyn, just not for everyone and not my cup of tea. ATC I would love to try. Thanks.

[@soonlh2488]

can't believe with so much of your listening experience u categorized your listening preference at level 2...prioritizing on tone and willing to sacrifice sound stage & image. from my experience, tonality and sound staging are interrelated...a more realistic sound stage should have the flatter tone and vice versa. The dynaudio floorstand obviously isn't flat but have too much treble...everything sounded compressed compare to the 3 bookshelf speaker demo...please listen to the drum snare in black crow and compare. On the other hand if u want the singer's breath to have more presence the right way is to turn up the music volume. Hi treble or brightness makes subtle things more revealing but the fullness and naturalness are gone.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Yeah, I can't have everything in my room. I had no choice but to choose. As long as sound stage is descent, I am ok with it. So I prioritize on tone. When we talk about singers breath, I can turn up the volume but it's not the same. With the $300k system, even at normal volume, the breath clarity just cuts thru all the instrument and you can hear it seperately and clear. The compression...maybe it's because as I said, these speakers gets better as you turn up the volume. It's not often I come across a speaker like this that have this characteristic and the person who I sold it to email me back telling me the same thing even if I did not tell him anything.

[@ernyfromlatvia]

'10K speaker and no bass'. I have may be 0.1% of your budget, but ...I don't want to upset you with my words. There are much cheaper systems on KZbin with synergistic sound. It"s not that the tweeter is forward, signal is amplified by something, in your case by preamp. It seems, that your speaker is bi- tonal, it reproduces very deep bass and very realistic treble. I can achieve the same effect with my old electrostatic speaker

[@ThomasAndStereo]

I guess I am expressing myself wrong, there is bass but just not chest pounding bass. I would say accurate bass. The person who bought it off me think they have massive bass. Its true, they go very deep and will vibrate the floor but just lack punch. Everything is relative, compare to 90% of the systems out there, these will outperform them but I am evaluating based on a $10k speaker level so my demand is very high.

[@Vidar.m]

Wish i had those

[@weeg91]

I dont trust any speaker that has more than two woofers - not only did/does the designer misunderstand sound but the owner does too.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Not sure I agree, you are implying all the highend speakers are garbage then. In the high end world, many are more than 2 woofers and I am confident those guys know what they are doing because I heard many.

[@weeg91]

Your english is good Read the original 1933 patent and all subsequent theory that evolved from it and it will make sense. High end speakers aren't garbage; rather people are mislead by salespeople and desigers that thats what they need for 'best possible quality' when the reality is; source quality has way more influence on the final product " percieved sound". And this is what annoys me. Because I was a victim. But I learned and learned until there was nothing more to learn. Based on my personal asessment of various designs of speaker (while keeping in mind most people cannot afford such intricate designs) the standard woofer +tweeter* arrangement IS more than adequate and IMO multiple woofers, usually indicative of more circuitry, of which detracts from sound quality, equal to or more than they supposedly bring to the table; thus it cancels out, especially when the drivers are the same size. When speakers have rows and rows of piezo tweeters for example like some 'exotic' designs do have, the designer got carried away, perhaps has obsessive compulsive disorder.. Look at 1950s abbey road white elephant speakers. www.audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/white-elephant-abbey-road.619799/ Considered 'good enough' by the PIONEERS of stereo and therefore, imo, should considered as reference. -15" Wharfdale speaker facing forward -2 13"x8" midrange drivers facing outward at 45 degree angles -GEC tweeters on a radiating frame. If people want to buy high end I'm not against trhat. If people want to design illustrious designs for aesthetic reasons, thats ok - the problem today is consumers are mislead by salespeople into buying high end when all the consumer really wants is high end sound, sound has no relation to aesthetics (outwith miror exceptions like flush drivers, rounded speaker cabinets wood type etc) *why are designs like Audio Research AR18 rare today? This is just scaled-up bookshelf. Large woofer with a full range speaker. {Although} I will stress that tweeters are moot today because although digital can "do" 16khz, it rarely experienced, thanks to mediocre digital modern day production practices (atleast where popular music is of concern). Speaker sized diminished because over time It became progressively less economically feesible to ship big boxes and drivers . The growing base of the trickle down pyramid, enabled manufacturers to profit on 'bookshelf's in the the 80s. Before then, large woofer + tweeters were common place, though still expensive. The bookshelf changed everything. I'm not sure if S.linkwitz was soley at fault but he was one proponent of bookshelf designs, although he demo'd it in 2.1 arrangement. Without the .1, percievable bass is limited if when compared to AR18 sized equivalent. As always source quality and the way the stereo channels are juxtaposed relative to one another at mixdown is VITAL and the utlimate arbiter of percieved quality, regardless of listening enviroment or expenditure. ‘I don't want to be Lo-Fi or Hi-Fi, I want to be ALL-Fi!’”

[@ThomasAndStereo]

I heard quite a few speakers with many drivers in the last few years and I never felt that they were 'not good'. If anything, the ones I heard, I felt they were effortless. Someone I follow, Paul M has the infinity IRS with maybe 20+woofers and he said that is the best speaker he has ever heard. If you look at his PS audio new speaker design, they also have an array of tweeters. I don't know much about speaker design but I am confident in saying that there are no best speaker design. Each design is a series of compromise, Multi woofer design can do things simple woofer design cannot and vice versa. I think that is why there is a speaker for everyone out there, not everyone have the same taste and not everyone wants the same thing in a speaker. I learn to respect that as I keep trying stuff and meeting different people.

[@weeg91]

I agree with you. Nice to speak.

[@abirdman53]

I hope you don’t find your perfect system because then you might stop looking and we would all miss out. Thanks.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

haha...i will...if I win the lottery.

[@johnsweda2999]

The Tannoy Westminster Royal SE, will blow your friends speakers out of the water for a fraction of the price.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

It's in the same price bracket so it definitely can compete. Never heard those but would assume it comes down to a question of taste.

[@johnsweda2999]

Thomas & Stereo I thought you said those speakers your friend had were $300, 000, get yourself some or make some dampening panels. You can use what is the best rockwool 600 by 1200 30 you can just hang them up without frames with some rubber feet like door stops, so they're not touching the wall. If you want cover them with a breathable material hemp. Either side of the speaker above the speaker on the ceiling, by the side of your sitting area and above your setting area. if you want a better soundstage move your rack away from the back wall at least the TV, you can use some rockwool material there or hang a thick curtain.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

No, the system is $300k but the speakers are around $70k. I will one day spend a lot of energy treating the room once I settle down with my final speaker.

[@bluelines1792]

Ok so it is straightforward without perspective sounding, like a kid's drawing>

[@ThomasAndStereo]

I don't know what perspective sounding mean, if you are implying my review is very simple, yup, absolutely right.

[@TRPD]

Get Quads and you will never look back!

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Quad ESL-2912? Or which model?

[@TRPD]

Thomas & Stereo it depends. 57 are the most accurate at midrange. The newer ones are great too and have more bass and slam. You can't think of them as speakers. They are more like windows into the music. They are not for loud music, but they will protect your hearing. Engineers at Phillips, reference recordings and chesky use them... And if you can hear a pair of Stax esl speakers, they are even better!

[@TRPD]

I want to add that there is nothing wrong with your speakers or your friend's. I have heard many great ones, from Avalon to Duntech to utopias. ESL speakers are for the audiophile who has done it all, has had 15 inch woofers, shattered glass, etc. This is then the arrival into sweet and honest music production. You will hear the breathing, emotion and perfect phase. If you want earth shattering entertainment (nothing wrong with that), then by all means you want dynamic speakers. My 2805s are plenty loud in my room but they don'd rattle the windows. Like I said before, I am over 50 and want to save my hearing. They are just a diferent thing. When I listen to my Focal BEs, I know and feel like I'm listening to speakers. The Quads transcend. I know I sound like a fan boy, but I was quite the opposite. If you have a chance, listen to a good setup. Also, they are analogue technology, so they are best with analogue sources. They simply don't have the DR that today's music demands. But the music reproduction is breathtaking!

[@ThomasAndStereo]

ah, that sounds like a sophisticated audiophile speaker. I actually don't listen to music with bass, just that I like to have it when the song calls for it. I also only listen at normal volume and don't like to shake my house so I understand what you are saying. Quads, ok, will put it on my list of speakers to audition. Thanks!